View Full Version : As far as the law is concerned, once your dad is in prison, he's not your dad anymore


danielle
01-14-2003, 09:07 PM
"A policeman had to pry me away from him"

As far as the law is concerned, once your dad is in prison, he's not your dad anymore.

By Nell Bernstein
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June 14, 2000 | S usana recalls touching her father only once, in an embrace that ended with police intervention. In 15 years, her father has never been able to feed her, support her or protect her. Yet Susana's father is the most important person in her life, the one person she knows loves her -- the only real parent she has.

Susana's dad is an inmate at San Quentin State Prison, serving 21 years to life under California's rigid "three strikes" sentencing law. Caught four years ago with stolen property -- and not for the first time -- he's been determined by the court to be of no further value outside of prison. Unfortunately, he is of vital importance to Susana (not her real name).


There are more than 1.5 million men incarcerated in the United States today. The majority of them are fathers. It's a role that may not have been central to their lives before they were arrested -- most did not live with their children, nor with the mothers of those children. Certainly their status as fathers is barely recognized by prison administrators or advocacy groups. Of the limited number of programs that aim to sustain family bonds during incarceration, the great majority are aimed at female prisoners.

On one level, it's a bias that makes sense. When children lose a mother to jail or prison, they often lose a caretaker and provider; when they lose a father, they are more likely to lose a visitor. But of the 10 million children whose lives have been touched by parental incarceration, the vast majority has experienced the loss of a father. In sheer numbers, these missing fathers represent an absence to be reckoned with. And as Susana's experience indicates, just because your dad didn't live with you before he was arrested doesn't mean you don't miss him or need him once he is gone.

Susana is locked up in a juvenile hall right next door to the county jail where she came to know her father during sporadic visits over the course of nearly a decade. She's a pretty, broad-faced girl with wide-set brown eyes, a chipped front tooth and long reddish-brown hair that drapes over her county-issue sweatshirt. In a glassed-in interview room with white cinder block walls and a concrete floor, Susana talks at length about the dad who spent most of her childhood in the place she refers to as "next door."

"My dad's handsome," she says with a rare smile. "I wish I had pictures of him. He's tall, he's muscular. He has my face, with a mustache and thicker eyebrows, and then his hair is shaved in the back, shaved on the sides, and he slicks it back with gel."

Her father has told her stories, Susana says, about their early days together, when he was free and she was small and he would pick her up and take her places, carry her in his arms. Susana can't recall a single image from that time. Her memories of him start when she was 5 or 6 years old, when her grandmother would come get her at the foster home where she spent most of her early years and take her downtown to see her dad.

"We had to wait in a waiting room for a really long time," Susana remembers, "and when we finally got in he was behind glass and you had to talk on a phone." Susana's foster mother had discouraged her from talking about or seeing her parents, and so, with the narcissism of a small child, she assumed the conventions of the visiting room existed to obstruct her in particular: "I figured they were trying to keep us apart, and that's why there was glass and a telephone, and we couldn't touch each other."

flygirlaa2
01-15-2003, 04:41 AM
Why would they say that when a person looses a dad to prison they more than likely loose a "visitor"? Even if he is not the primary care taker of his children, to call him a visitor seems so wrong. Maybe it is just me. The helplessness a father must feel while he is incarcerated and his children are out making mistakes, needing support and guidance, and he can't be there for them. It is mind boggleing.

lulu
01-15-2003, 08:08 AM
It is just not you flygirl. This kind of thing makes me so mad. It is sad that this is happening to so many fathers. It is just not the fathers that this is effecting. It hurts the kids even more.

KREEMIE
01-15-2003, 08:40 AM
WELL I HAVE READ THIS AND IT TOOK ME BACK TO A TIME WHEN I WAS 5 AND VISITING MY OWN MOTHER IN BEAR HILL CORRECTIONAL FACILITY.THIS FOR SURE WAS THE LAST TIME I SAW HER BUT I REMEMBER IT LIKE IT WAS YESTERDAY.WALKING THROUGH THOSE GATES AND TAKING MY SNEAKERS OFF AND WISHING THAT MY MOMMY WOULD TAKE ME TO THE PLAY ROOM THEY HAD AT THE TIME.COME TO FIND OUT I STAYED THE WHOLE WEEKEND.WE PLAYED AND SANG TOGETHER.SHE READ TO ME EVENTHOUGH IDONT REMEMBER THE STORY I REMEMBER THAT.I EVEN REMEMBER TAKING A SHOWER WITH MY MOTHER AND THE WAY SHE TOLD ME TO ALWAYS TAKE CARE OF MY BODY WHEN I GET OLDER.NOW TODAY I STILL CONSIDER THIS WOMEN 21 YEARS LATER AS MY MOTHER EVENTHOUGH IAM NOW ADOPTED A SHORT TIME AFTER THAT AND NEVER SAW HER AGAIN.MOTHERS AND FATHERS LIKE MY CHILDREN FATHERS MAKE MISTAKES BUT THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THEIR CHILDREN.CHILDREN LOVE THEIR FATHERS OR MOTHERS REGARDLESS OF WHAT THEY DID BECAUSE LIKE MYSELF YOU NEED THAT PARENT.WHEN MY CHILDREN ASK ABOUT THEIR FATHER I MAKE SURE THEY KNOW THEIR FATHERS ARE IN SCHOOL AND THEY WILL COME HOME TO SEE THEM WHEN THE PRINCIPAL SAYS THEY CAN COME HOME.ITS A LIE BUT IT GETS THESE KIDS THROUGH IT WITHOUT THINKING MY DADDY IS A BAD MAN AND HE DID A BAD THING.I NEVER KNEW THAT WHERE I SAW MY MOTHER WAS A JAIL UNTIL I TURNED 23.YES 23.THATS WHEN I PUT TWO TO TWO TOGETHER.SO WHO SAYS A MOTHER IS NOT A MOTHER WHEN THEY GET INCARCERATED.PLEASE MY MOTHER WAS IN SCHOOL.LOL.

lulu
01-15-2003, 09:16 AM
Oh Kreemie,I am so sorry.

gina
01-15-2003, 09:16 AM
(:)kreemie)

emme
01-15-2003, 09:22 AM
kreemie, that is a beautiful tribute to your mom.

KREEMIE
01-15-2003, 03:00 PM
Thanks everybody. i appreciate the warmness from all of yall.
its just when you have to share your story with someone.

Menally-Ill
01-16-2003, 08:43 AM
Kreemie:

YOu, my dear, are a prime example of WHY parental relationships SHOULD be nurtured for inmates!

Children naturally love unconditionally. For some inmates the relationship with their children is the FIRST unconditional love they have ever experienced!

I have seen the toughest, bad-ass cons become total "mush-buckets" of gentleness, when their little daughter visits. And I have seen them suddenly become so responsible, and start extolling to their sons, the reasons why "You mustn't ever end up in here. Do your homework. Grow up and get a good job. And don't make the same mistakes I did."

Many cons have had to put up HUGE WALLS and wear masks, because society makes that necessary. But when their kids come around? Ah, the masks get put aside, and their finest sides come to the forefront!

Of course, there are exceptions to every generality, (such as a man in prison for wife and child abuse) BUT the average con... these are the reactions I have MOST OFTEN seen.

So, yes, these relationships need special nurturance and encouragement!

All My Love,
Menolly

P.S: Danielle, thanks for another "thought provoker"!

deb
01-16-2003, 09:54 AM
Kremie,

My heart broke when I read your words. Have you ever seen her since? Do you write? It sounds like you haven't seen her since. I am so sorry....

Deb

KREEMIE
01-16-2003, 03:03 PM
AS I MENTIONED IN MY LETTER I HAVE SEEN HER ONLY THAT TIME WHEN I RAN AFTER HER IN THE PLAYGROUND.I WAS ADOPTED AFTER THAT SO AS THE RULES GO " NO CONTACT WITH THE MOTHER". I HAVE BEEN LOOKING FOR HER FOR YEARS THOUGH AND CAME UP WITH ALOT OF INFO LIKE WHAT SHE WAS DOING TIME FOR "MANSLAUGHTER". WHERE SHE DIID HER TREATMENTS AT AND EVEN HER NYS ID NUMBERS.DUE TO JEALOUSY WITH THE ADOPTED MOTHER THAT INFO WAS THROWN AWAY AND ALL I HAVE IS MY LITTLE MEMORIES OF WHAT WAS IN THE BOOK.SO NO I HAVE NOT WROTE HER OR CONTACTED HER BECAUSE I HAVE NO MORE INFO. O YEAH ONE THING THAT IS GOOD ABOUT MY LITTLE MEMORIES IS THAT HER BIRTHDAY IS FEBRUARY 10TH AND MY OLDEST DAUGHTR IS FEBRUARY 12TH.HOW CUTE.TIMES LIKE THAT I WOULD LIKE TO HAVE A GRANDMA AND GRANDDAUGHTER BIRTHDAY.

KREEMIE
01-16-2003, 03:06 PM
EVENTHOUGH SHE GAVE ME UP AND KILLED SOME ONE SHE IS STILL MY MOTHER AND I LOVE HER TO DEATH.I JUST HAVE THE LITTLE MEMORIES {THE 5 TIMES I SAW HER AND MY FATHER} THAT I REMEMBER AND THAT IS OK WITH ME.

udevilish
03-20-2003, 01:38 PM
oh kreemie I know hat it is like to have a parent in prison my dad is in there but have you gave it any thought as to find your mom I hope I am not speaking out of turn but you sound like youlove her so much and you have so much love to give her I am sure she rhinks about you everyday my aunt told me to think that my dad was away on a loooong buisness trip this worked {ahhh the power of the mind}until I seen him for the first time in 9 years last month the harsh realities of knowing where he was has been a very hard pill for me to swallow I wish you the very best

StacysWar030
04-17-2003, 08:16 AM
Kreemie,
My baby girl's daddy is incarcerated and your story just makes tears stream down my eyes. I worry about the affect this will all have on their relationship and if she will hate him later in life. You just gave me the answer....NO! Have you tried to find your mother since. Now that you are an adult maybe you can begin to mend the fences that seperated you 2 to begin with. I'm sure she would love to read what you wrote and love to know you hold her so fondly in your memory as I am sure she does the same of YOU!
Good Luck!
Stacy

whichru
07-07-2003, 06:12 PM
so is he still my dad

BSS
07-07-2003, 06:32 PM
He is your dad honey and he will always be your dad no matter what. Love Barbara

StacysWar030
07-08-2003, 07:16 AM
He is your dad no matter where he's at and no matter for what reason.

Stacy

rap_gurl
07-18-2003, 09:46 AM
I believe that as long as he is alive he will always be ur dad if u love him enough then he is a dad whether he is inside or outside the walls, I believe that the law is bulshit if it states that when ur dad goes to jail he aint ur dad anylonger, I mean come on just cuz he isnt here dont mean he aint ur dad.

So DAD IS DAD TILL HE DIES OR U STOP BELIEVIN IN HIM!

MRSMAZE
07-18-2003, 11:10 AM
This subject is so SAD. I struggle with the impact of my husband's incarceration on our son, am I right or wrong for bringing him to visit?

My son is seven and couldn't eat, sleep and didn't want to go to school when he first went away, they were extremely close. He told another child, who happens to be my girlfriends daughter, that he was going to shoot himself. My heart aches to even mention this now....my child was embarrassed when I confronted him and initially denied it. He cried himself to sleep so many nights...he has a very macho, Italian, strong father and he is a very sensitive boy. This whole situation confuses him so much and he has been so hurt.

Some people made me feel like a criminal for keeping their bond so strong, what kind of lesson am I teaching him? Does he think it's "normal" to have a dad in jail? Etc, Etc.

No, he doesn't, all he thinks is, " I Love my daddy and my daddy loves me."

Children really do suffer, and making mistakes doesn't automatically take away your parental abilities, it just makes you human and this CAN be explained to a child.

StacysWar030
07-20-2003, 04:15 PM
I AGREE MRSMAZE!!! WELL SAID!

Stacy

CET
07-31-2003, 10:47 PM
I don't think parents "give the kids up" but rather have to terminate their parental rights when they have a long sentence. Before they did this, the kids spent their entire childhoods so often in a series of foster homes. There were two kids on my caseload where I used to work whose mother had a 30 year sentence for murder. They were adopted out. I would think that when kids are 18 they would give them the information.

Tom
11-20-2004, 04:37 PM
I agree with everything that has been said in the above. I have two kids that are living with me. They are 13 and 14, I don’t know if my wife and I are going to make it or not. But we are working on it. However, I bring my kids twice a week to see her when she is in prison. She just got out and is going back this January. As the lawyer said we can’t keep her out again this time.



They also go into the prison and spend one day a month with her and I make sure they get there. It costs a lot but they talk to her daily. Contact is of the utmost importance so that they remember they have two parents and that even though she did do something wrong, she is not a bad person. They know I have a private therapist going in to give her the help she needs and that makes them feel better.



So the key is to just maintain contact in some form, I just make sure my kids get a lot of contact. Even if I don’t know were I am going to end up with my wife; but I am trying to work it out.

dickleb
11-29-2004, 01:31 PM
I have been working with a wrongfully convicted prisoner (David, not his real name) for the past two years. Before entering prison David and his wife were divorced. It was an amicable divorce, and David was able to visit with his children on a regular basis. When David was convicted (wrongfully) his ex-wife brought the children to prison for visits. David also talked with his children on the phone on average once a week. Then a little over a year ago David's ex-wife met a man, fell in love and eventually got married. The new husband did not want David to have any contact with his children and David hasn't talked with them, seen them or received any mail from them in a year. David has filed a suit with probate court asking that his children's visitation rights be re-instated. He was supposed to go to court today but instead was patched into court via a telephone connection. He found out that his ex-wife wants to prevent David and David's parents (the grandparents) from having ANY contact whatsoever with his children. The new husband wants to adopt the children, change their last names, and eliminate contact with their natural father (David). David was never abusive to his children and they love him very much. My questions are: 1). What rights does David have?; 2). Does anyone out there have experience in this area?; 3), Where can I turn to for help?

Thanks very much,
dickleb

haswtch
11-29-2004, 07:43 PM
I hope somebody comes in with an answer to this! If I were you I would start a new thread about it in the 911 forum. Just paste it right on in and make a real specific title. Somebody probly knows something useful but this is an old thread and they may not see it here...good luck...God bless you for caring!

Krissy619
11-29-2004, 07:45 PM
wow