over here in Holland they are looking to approve a law that will allow the police to put the person who commits domestic violence out of the house for a while, until the judge gave a restraining order. I thought I'd share this with all of you

That was a step the US tried for many years and it did very little good unless out of the house means a night in the "Big House" Most abusers just came right back that much angrier.

THe US finally discovered that the victum would not press chargers out of love, fear, and intimidation. So they passed the law if the Police Officer discovered battery of any kind male or female the abuser is to be arrested rather the victim wanted it or not.

This is where I think they should apply the three strike rule.
If the vctim has filed restraining orders, and peace bonds for the abuser to leave them alone and the batterer comes back to hurt and abuse again and again. If they can't control themselves to leave other people alone then they should be forcibly removed to where they will have to leave other people alone. Third time they need to be put up and a severee behavior modifcations need to be inforced on them.

Sorry but I'm very sick of people being abused.

I am in agreement with that one. Domestic Violence is such a touchy subject for me.. It is hard to deal with it because it is usually hidden or not addressed until it is to late.

Torrey,
I agree however we must remember that domestic violence also consits of mental and emotional abuse as well as physical abuse. The inner scars from the emotional trama are far harder to mend than bruises or black and blues. Even if the abuser is sent away for a long time, the victim tends to remain loyal to him. After endless days of being told you are worthless, no one else would ever want you, etc. you start to believe it. It takes these victims much more than the abuser being arrested to overcome the trama.
The law you are talking about is GREAT! but unfortunately it is not in every state (not a federal law). In some states, if the police are called on a domestic dispute all parties involved are arrested, charges pressed on both, picked up by the state if they do not press charges against eachother. In NY if the cops come out on a DV then someone gets arrested and it is not always the abuser, depends on the cops. In NJ, however, they enforce the law that you mention and the results have been good since the state picks up all charges wether or not the victim presses any. In other states the abuser gets arrested but if no charges are pressed, or if he is bailed out (usually by the victim) he is released only hours later. Right back into the previous situation only this time he's/she's madder.
DV is and has been a long on going battle. I myself have a close family member who is in an abusive relationship. As a counselor all I can do is continue to talk to her, educate her about rescources avalible to her, and most importantly always be there for her and NEVER judge her. Victims of DV usually don't speak out because they are sick of being judged. They are put down on a constant basis and don't want to hear things like why don't you just leave? Unfortunately it's easier said than done. Please if you know anyone in this siutaion try to talk them into leaving, but always be supportive.

Maybe we should fight to make that law federal. What do you think?
Michelle

From personal experience, trying to talk someone into leaving is the worst thing you can do. I've been on both sides now, and I can only tell someone to get the info and make an educated decision. Just let them know you're there for them when they need you. I married my husband even after all the crap, so I could never tell someone to leave, only discuss the options.

I grew up in a 'dv' home, my parents are married for 23 years, but just don't seem to get along. my dad beats up my mom. not anymore though, but he used to do it like almost every day, when he's drunk. he's also putting her down emotionally. but since I don't live at home anymore, I can relavate more and can see that my mom can do a lot to provide this too. she's always sneaking after his back, trying to hide things that she does, even simple things like being on the internet while he's at work.
her father used to beat her too, since she was little, I guess that already messed up her view on a male/female relationship.
I don't know if my parents ever really talked, I just know they don't do now, they live next to each other.
The police has been at our house a lot after a fight, but my mom never pressed charges neither....she doesn't listen to me when I tell her to do something about it. So all I do is learn from the mistakes they made and make sure I won't accept what my mom came to accept

I love the quote from Oprah.

"If someone loves you they do not hurt you"

DV is hard for everyone in the picture.. I lost nikki due to it and I am all for helping people but michelle is right most of the time the victim stays loyal.. they feel sorry for the abuser and then believe in the romance cycle that they will change and it will never happen again.. The mental and emotional scars are worse. the bruises leave where as the mental and emotional effects stay for ever...

I AM SURE I WILL NOT BE POPULAR FOR MAKING THIS COMMENT BUT JUST WANTED TO POINT OUT THAT IT CAN BE HARD ON LAW ENFORCEMENT TOO B/C SO OFTEN WOMEN TAKE OUT 50-b PROTECTIVE ORDERS AND THEN VIOLATE THEIR OWN ORDERS BY ALLOWING THE MAN TO COME HOME--THEN AN ARGUMENT COMES UP AND THE WOMAN IS CALLING 911 FOR HELP-I REALLY THINK THERE SHOULD BE A SIGNIFICANT PENALTY FOR VIOLATING YOUR OWN PROTECTIVE ORDER--MIGHT CAUSE MANY WOMEN TO LOOK BEYOND THEIR INITIAL LOVE AND FORGIVENESS TOWARDS THE ABUSER. I ALSO THINK THERE NEEDS TO BE MORE ONGOING SUPPORT FOR WOMEN WHO HAVE LEFT ABUSIVE RELATIONSHUIPS-THEIR MOST VULNERABLE TIME IS REALLY AFTER THEY HAVE LEFT

SHERRI

That is so true Sherri. I know that when I left Darren (the girls father), I hardly got any support what so ever. I got on a bus in NC and came back to OK where I had some family thinking that they would help. One Uncle let me stay one week. One week to find a place to live, a car a job, furniture, etc... Because I had kept quiet for so long, no one really believed my story. I either got, it's your fault for the position your in, you should have left sooner....or on the other side it's my fault for being in the position I am in, I should have left. My ex-husband fractured Stacie's skull when she was 6 weeks old, broke her collar boen when she was three. Broke Carine's arm when she was 2.... what was I supposed to do? I did leave....but no support or help at all. Not even from Chrisitan Groups. I even got a job at a Christian organization thinking that their strength and working in a place like that might help get me through this, but 3, yes I said 3 days after my divorce I was fired because I didn't fit the christian image. So what do you do?

Joy

Fired because you don't fit the "Christian image"?!?! That is horrible Joy!!!! Apparently they missed those teachings about not judging.... Hey... that was Christ himself that talked about that wasn't it?!?!

Do you know someone in a battering relationship? Do you suspect that a friend, relative, or someone you know is being abused? If so, don't be afraid to offer help - you just might save someone's life. Here are some basic steps you can take to assist someone who may be a target of domestic violence.



Approach her in an understanding, non-blaming way. Tell her that she is not alone, that there are many women like her in the same kind of situation, and that it takes strength to survive and trust someone enough to talk about battering.

Acknowledge that is it scary and difficult to talk about domestic violence. Tell her she doesn't deserve to be threatened, hit or beaten. Nothing she can do or say makes the abuser's violence OK.

Share information. Show her the Warning List, Violence and Non-Violence Wheels. Discuss the dynamics of violence and how abuse is based on power and control.

Support her as a friend. Be a good listener. Encourage her to express her hurt and anger. Allow her to make her own decisions, even if it means she isn't ready to leave the abusive relationship.

Ask if she has suffered physical harm. Go with her to the hospital to check for injuries. Help her report the assault to the police, if she chooses to do so.

Provide information on help available to battered women and their children, including social services, emergency shelter, counseling services, and legal advice. To find this information, start with the Yellow Pages.

Inform her about legal protection that is available in most states under abuse prevention laws. Go with her to district, probate, or superior court to get a protective order to prevent further harassment by the abuser. If you can't go, find someone who can.

Plan safe strategies for leaving an abusive relationship. These are often called "safety plans." Never encourage someone to follow a safety plan that she believes will put her at further risk. And remember that she may not feel comfortable taking these materials with her.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

from "Domestic Violence: The Facts" - A Handbook to STOP violence (courtesy of Peace At Home (formerly Battered Women Fighting Back), Boston)

Thank you Torrey, that's what I was trying to say, but you've said it so much better.

she must have a good hook up to a DV site.. :)

Hi Everyone... Domestic Violence can be so complex sometimes. I was in a marriage for 14 years before divorcing my first husband. He was very abusive -- in all kinds of ways -- physically, mentally, socially, emotionally, financially and sexually. We were School Sweethearts, I met him when I was 11 and he was 13 -- a very gentle, soft-spoken boy with a great personality. He NEVER showed signes of abuse until we were 16 and 18. He promised never to put his hands on me again, then when we married -- I was almost 17 (no, not pregnant, just did) I was getting battered every time I disagreed with him or didn't want to spend money on certain things. I was young but very responsible and mature for my age. Anyhow, the abuse never stopped. One day, when I was 2 months pregnant with our first child, I made a comment on a song to the effect of, "yeah, right" on a love line and he couldn't get me in his mother's house fast enough up to our bedroom and punch my lights out -- I mean, I saw stars like they see on the cartoons (I'm not laughing) and I knew then, I said to myself, "I don't know how long I'm going to be in this marriage but it's already over." This man was progressively using new drugs, weed wasn't enough for him, then it was pills, acid all kinds of foolishness -- I tried the stuff, I did, but I didn't remain in that scene too long, maybe 2 years -- this man forced me to sell my body for money and beat me if I didn't and beat me if a man liked my services too much -- IS THAT A NUT CASE OR WHAT? By and by -- I began to stand up to him more and more, I wasn't raised to be a low-life (whatever that is) and I refused to live that way. I respected him as a man and a husband even after all that mess -- he respected my stand to go sober and clean (that was 20 years ago -- hoorah!) but he continued to do drugs and go after vulnerable women and make them prostitutes -- he beat them too! I separated and went back, separated and went back SO MANY TIMES, I went to battered women's shelters a few times because I truly feared for my life and my kids -- the last time I went to a shelter was 1988 -- It was happening, I was feeling less and less attachment to this "monster-man" that was supposed to love me but didn't mind hurting me and not feeding my children, stealing my money, checks and everything else. I managed to stay away from him for 3 years -- WHY DID I LET HIM COME BACK? Oh -- it was ALMOST out of my system, I jsut felt that we could make it work or NOT! He came back home (always to MY PLACE) and I knew after the 2nd week that this was the end of the marriage for good -- we didn't last a year -- he had to go but the inevitibal happened, he thought that he'd beat the stew out of me one more time -- and I went after him this time -- I could hear God speaking to my conscience -- "Phyllis -- it's not worth it, you have children, don't forget the children, let it go!" -- I told him to his face for the last time AFTER I'd hit him with a dangerous object that he'd NEVER, EVER get another chance to hurt me again in THIS LIFE and let him go. We divorced and to this very day -- if I'd let him, he'd come back -- NOT! I've been blessed with a wonderful man and I'm truly happy.

Bottom line -- if I'd had some very OBJECTIVE help from people, it would have made a BIG difference, but I didn't. All I had was -- "girl, if I was you, this and that -- or, DIVORCE HIM!!! Never anyone to say, I know of a support group or I'll talk to him and try to get him some help -- nothing!" I got ME some help, I went to therapy, had to go on antidepressants for a while on and off -- I fought all the way and I'm glad that I did! There are some things that LOVE JUST DOESN'T DO! Love doesn't hurt and kill and LOVE DOESN'T ALLOW IT EITHER! Something else to think about -- Once or twice, yes ... you are a victim. After that -- I'm sorry to say it, but you're a VOLUNTEER.
God bless and this is posted in true understanding and love.

To thine own self, be true. Only you really know YOU!

PreciousQueen, what an amazing story. You have a lot to be proud of. I also was in an abusive marriage for 13 years. It took me 3 times to finally leave. While in counseling (at a women's shelter) I was told that it takes an woman an average of about 7 times before she finally breaks away.

I was judged for staying and I was judged for leaving. I finally decided to do what I WANTED TO DO and when people starting giving me their advice... I would listen, then go on with my life and do what I thought was right.

You have a lot of strength. Thank you for sharing your story.

Joy

Joy - congratulations for your courage and strength for letting go and leaving.

My parents have been married for over 37 years and as far as I know neither parent has ever hit the other or any of their children. They aren't perfect, but they have always respected one another. Both of my parents grew up in abusive homes - my Mom's was physical and my Dad's was sexual and even though they married as teenages (Mom 15, Dad 17) they vowed to never intentionally harm each other and they stuck by that vow.

A few years ago I got involved with a married man (big mistake, I know) and he started hitting me and when I broke it off with him - after 5 years - he started stalking me. He was a total control freak - trying to control who I talked to, what I wore, how I fixed my hair, the kind of car I drove, everything! I was afraid to tell people I was in this relationship, much less what was happening. Finally, when I could hide the bruises and the fear no longer I came to my Mom and told her the whole story. We cried together and she suggested I move back home so I would not be alone, which I did. Together we told my Dad and brothers - who offered to confront the man (basically beat the crap out of him). I wouldn't let them do that. Once I moved home, he started stalking me at work. I finally started threatening to call the police and expose our affair to the world and he backed off.

To this day if I see him on the highway he will ususally follow me for a while, flash his lights and act like he me to stop. I ignore him with my hand on the cell phone ready to call 911.

I guess I had to stop blaming myself - yes I made a bad decision to get involved with him, but I never deserved the treatement I got. Once I found loving support outside of that relationship it was easier to break totally free of him.

Just thought I'd share my 2 cents worth.

I'm so glad others understand what it feels like to be abused..Scott and I met 20 years ago, and off and on have been together ever since...I always knew he was drinker, but then so was I..when we finally moved in together, we were both so happy, we had both been through bad marriages, and both felt like we always belonged together. He would tell everyone that I was the love of his life :)
About nine months later, we found out I was pregnant, and were overjoyed! Shortly after that, he started getting violent towards me for things I had nothing to do with. He called me vile names, belittled me, ignored me, threw things at me...then the first time he actually laid a hand on me, he choked me and threw me on the kitchen floor. My nose bled all over the place and I got up and ran to the bathroom and locked myself in. The physical pain was not that bad, but the mental pain was horrible..how could he do this, if he loves me? I did not call the police that time, and I did not call them the next time, when he beat the right side of mu face in, for telling him he didn't need another drink..I lied to every member of my family and my friends at work, telling them that old standby, "I fell down the stairs in the dark." To this day, part of my face has nerve damage.
Thank god, when Michael was born, he was perfect in everyway, and still is.. I consider that a miracle..
Scott and I ended up splittling for about 9 months, and I went back..I believed him when he said he was sorry and would never do it again, that he loved me and our son more than life itself...during the separation, I kind of "found myself" and got stronger, and when I did go back, I had my mind made up that if he ever did ANY thing like that again, I would call the police, and I would leave and never come back.
Well, guess what? He did it again, and I did exactly what I had made my mind up to do..
He is in Lima Correctional in Ohio, and I am on my own, and for the most part, loving it.
Here's where it gets complicated..in a moment of weakness, I talked one of his family members into giving me his address there, and I sent him a father's day card from our son. Ever since then, we have been writing almost daily..he tells me he has finally found the 'key' to dealing with his anger and his horrible childhood, and the abuse he suffered at the hands of his father...that I am still, and always will be, the love of his life. He gets out next Jan (2003), and wants us to try again, that I will never regret it.
How do I know? How can I ever erase my doubts and fears??? I do love him so much, but I love myself too, much more than I ever did before..
Sorry this was so long...it just came flowing out....thank you!

As I read this thread, I feel like I've lived a little bit of each one of your lives. In fact, I think I was married to your husband PreciousQueen, with the exception of the prostitution. I was married to him for 13 years. He passed away in May at the young age of 46 from the continual abuse to his own body - drugs and alcohol.

I then went into a 7 & 1/2 yr relationship that ended abusively. He ran his car into mine after a high speed car chase through town.

The last one was a year and a half with a guy who seemed to be calm, but when I found out he was cheating on me and kicked him to the curb, he got really nasty. He and his new girlfriend followed me one night to a friends house. After he kicked the back of my car and me, my friend told him to take off before he called the cops. I had a restraining order in place, so I went to where she lived thinking they would be in for the night (stupid, I know) to get the address and report the violation of the restraining order. Well, they pulled up behind me and he opened my car door, grabbed my cell phone & tore a 2 inch wide by 4 inch long chunk of hair out of the back of my head. My face, eye and lip were all swollen up and my head had a very large bald spot down the back. Thank God I was on the phone with the police when he began the attack. And thank God for seat belts. If I hadn't had mine on, he would have been able to drag me from the car. He's 6'2'' and I'm only 5'2'. They knew where I was and got there right away. It was like a scene out of cops. He and his girlfriend went into her house. Four patrol cars surrounded it and after about an hour, they went in through a back window when he wouldn't come out. They arrested him, but she said she was drunk and didn't see anything that happened (yeah, sure). He only got 90 days on a misdemeanor (no broken bones the DA told me, so they couldn't get a felony conviction). So, he got off with 11 days served and weekends, 3 yrs. probation 6 mos anger management and a year of Alcoholics Anonomous. That's when the stalking began. Ends of cigars left outside my patio door or at the bottom of my pool, just to let me know he had been there. I got my car fixed and painted because the dent was pretty big, then he poured something on it while it was in the driveway and I was out of town. All the paint peeled in a lot of places all over the car. Guess he's finally found someone else to bother though, because he has been leaving me alone as of late.

We are (were) a sick bunch of puppies! I know now that I will never, ever be involved in a relationship like that again. I know my Jacc would never put his hands on a woman in an abusive manner. I've told him though that while I would never divorce him, I will remove myself from a bad situation.

Bella, you have such wonderful insight and knowledge. I had to read and teach myself all about why I was letting myself be a door mat. In truth, it was the OJ Simpson case and all the educatonal information that came out during that period that helped me to bring up my self esteem. You are so right about DV being an area where the cycle must be broken. These behaviors are learned on both sides of the equations. Some men don't know how to be a man any other way. Some women don't know how to love themselves first.

I am most thankful to God, for giving me eyes to see and ears to hear. I am always safe in His arms now no matter what the world may bring!! (much more knowledge, wisdon and understanding too!)

PrecousQueen, you know I like your suggestion: along with offering words of support, perhaps point the person who is being abused in the direction where they may be able to receive some CONCRETE help and support would go a long way. There's no way that we can take on all the domestic violence in the world but there must be a way where we can point them in the right direction to get the help that they need.
Is there a way, through this group, that we can somehow put together a resource list (perhaps by state) for people who need help to get out of domestic violence? I know that sometimes Child Protective Services in each state helps. I was able to leave my ex-husband, thanks to the equivalent of CPS on the East Coast. Here's another thought; how about contacting your state's United Way program? They should have the ability to give information on agencies that can help people who want to get out of a domestic violence situation.
I believe that we can make a difference, one person at a time if we put our heads together. If we even save one family's lives, it would be worth it and more.

-sher

Originally posted by torrey
That was a step the US tried for many years and it did very little good unless out of the house means a night in the "Big House" Most abusers just came right back that much angrier.

THe US finally discovered that the victum would not press chargers out of love, fear, and intimidation. So they passed the law if the Police Officer discovered battery of any kind male or female the abuser is to be arrested rather the victim wanted it or not.

This is where I think they should apply the three strike rule.
If the vctim has filed restraining orders, and peace bonds for the abuser to leave them alone and the batterer comes back to hurt and abuse again and again. If they can't control themselves to leave other people alone then they should be forcibly removed to where they will have to leave other people alone. Third time they need to be put up and a severee behavior modifcations need to be inforced on them.

Sorry but I'm very sick of people being abused.

I totally agree, as I am tired of this creep bothering me. He invites himself over to stay for months at a time. NO MORE
Sorry if I posted incorrectly, still learning.

I am so sick of being a victim. If the creep tries to come in my home again, I am gonna spray his face with the poison at my door to blind him. This fool broke in my dead bolt door with a screwdriver! I thought I was safe-I have installed 5 additional locks since.
Here is an interesting list of crap he pulled:

sneaked clothes in a small bag at a time
stole big amounts of money while I was asleep (100-500)
had his way with me WHILE I was asleep
cut holes in my jammies for entry access (sexual)
called welfare on me
threated to have my kids taken
cracked a rib
punctured a lung
stomped on chest
power punched my left eye (in jail now-11/01/03)
stole cell phones
stole pager
called me names----yes, every one you can think of
called my daughter a b****
threated to shoot me
climbed up 2nd floor balcony to enter my home
packed up all my important things to take and sell
You know, I am so sick of this man, I hope I never see him again. He is nothing but a thieving abuser. I am currently trying to keep him in jail, but they say he doesn't have enough convictions for the 3 or more rule. He has over 50 arrests, and 12 are assaults. They have to be convicted assaults.
I went through so much in the last 3 weeks. He disrupted my life. I coughed up blood for 2 weeks due to the blow to my nose. Had to go to my kids' school conferences with a black eye. I am soooo mad! He has put me thru such misery. I hope his crusty feet freeze off in jail.
The child protection people are now back in my life. There was an incident this March with him too, and me and my boys had to go to DA classes all summer because of him. He said he wanted me to call the cops this time so that Child Pro. would take my kids. He need classes, but they won't help a person like him. I talked to the lady that came to my home, and explained all to her. I told her I was mad as heck, and he is doing this on purpose. She said the only thing I may have done wrong was to run out and call 911 and left the kids in the home with him. I had no phone, and all cells were dead.
Well, that's what happened. I will keep you posted as to how the DEC 2nd trial unfolds. I've been to court and got my 1 yr. restraining order! Yahoo! Couldn't get one before due to him running and hiding from being served. I got him in jail with it! Yes!
I love this site! So glad to have found it.
Peace be with you
Brenda

Joy, that is so very sad. I am so sorry and I apologize for every in/uncompassionate "Christian" out here! I too have walked in your shoes and am a RECOVERING "Victim" -- I realized, that as long as I stayed in that relationship, I was no longer a victim but a "VOLUNTEER!" No more abuse for me.... I feel every word everyone is saying, no one is wrong... it all goes together. :twocents: That is so true Sherri. I know that when I left Darren (the girls father), I hardly got any support what so ever. I got on a bus in NC and came back to OK where I had some family thinking that they would help. One Uncle let me stay one week. One week to find a place to live, a car a job, furniture, etc... Because I had kept quiet for so long, no one really believed my story. I either got, it's your fault for the position your in, you should have left sooner....or on the other side it's my fault for being in the position I am in, I should have left. My ex-husband fractured Stacie's skull when she was 6 weeks old, broke her collar boen when she was three. Broke Carine's arm when she was 2.... what was I supposed to do? I did leave....but no support or help at all. Not even from Chrisitan Groups. I even got a job at a Christian organization thinking that their strength and working in a place like that might help get me through this, but 3, yes I said 3 days after my divorce I was fired because I didn't fit the christian image. So what do you do?

Joy

The Real Question we should be asking is not "Why does she stay," but "Why does he abuse and batter her?"

Love, Peace, Blessings,
Marsha

The Real Question we should be asking is not "Why does she stay," but "Why does he abuse and batter her?"

Love, Peace, Blessings,
Marsha

Marsha, what are you getting at? Do you feel different about the discussion?