View Full Version : 3 Strikes Hits It's Target...LA Times


Gate Keeper
09-30-2004, 09:02 AM
These 2 professors at CSSB made the same points that I had made in the previous thread. This aricle was released on 9/28/04.

Three-Strikes Law Hit Its Target

By Edward J. Erler and Brian P. Janiskee, Edward J. Erler and Brian P. Janiskee, fellows at the Claremont Institute, are political science professors at Cal State San Bernardino and the authors of numerous law review articles on the three-strikes law.


On Nov. 2, voters will be asked to decide whether California's tough three-strikes law should be weakened.

Both proponents and opponents of Proposition 66 agree that in the 10 years since three strikes became law, the crime rate has fallen dramatically, nearly 45%. Proponents of Proposition 66, however, argue that crime rates had already begun to drop the year before three strikes was adopted and the decrease cannot therefore be attributed to that law. Rather, community policing, an improved economy, gang truces and a diminishing number of young men in the population are the real reasons crime has decreased.

These conclusions, however, defy common sense. Criminologists have told us for years that career criminals are responsible for most of the wrongdoing in society. And that was exactly whom three strikes targeted. One of the law's principal architects, then-Assemblyman Bill Jones (R-Fresno), stated the simple logic behind three strikes: "If we could incarcerate the small percentage of criminals who commit the vast majority of crimes in our state, we could effectively lower the crime rate and save thousands of lives."

The three-strikes law was passed as an initiative in 1994 by an astonishing 72% of the electorate. In a state as diverse as California, this represents virtual unanimity.

The initiative was principally a reaction to the alarming increase in crime that took place in the 1970s and '80s. Throughout these two decades, the Legislature had steadfastly refused to pass effective anti-crime legislation. The final straw for the public were the murders of Kimber Reynolds in Fresno and 10-year-old Polly Klaas in Petaluma. Both killers would have still been in prison had three strikes been in place.

Liberals have one main point of contention with the way the law works: the fact that first and second strikes must be serious or violent felonies but a third strike may be assigned for any felony. Proposition 66 would mandate that third strikes be serious or violent felonies, while reducing the number of crimes that qualify as serious or violent. Most notably, residential burglary would no longer be a "strikeable" offense and the definition of what constitutes great bodily injury (and hence a serious or violent felony) would be weakened.

Three-strikes opponents argue that it is "cruel and unusual punishment" to impose 25-year-to-life sentences for stealing a bottle of vitamins or a slice of pizza or for merely purloining videotapes. They also argue that the law was sold to the public as a way to get the worst criminals off the streets, but because the third strike is most often nonviolent and nonserious, it isn't measuring up.

What is conveniently ignored, however, is that the third felony, even in the case of stolen vitamins or videotapes, follows at least two serious or violent felonies. It is difficult to see the injustice of such sentences for career criminals who have been given multiple chances to reform but are either unwilling or unable to recognize their obligations to society and the rights of fellow citizens.

It's also important to note that no third-strike sentence is mandatory. Both prosecutors and judges have discretion in dealing with offenders. That can mean a reduction in the number of strikes or a switch in the charges, from felony to misdemeanor, for the sake of justice. As to the idea that allowing long sentences for a nonviolent or nonserious felony violates the Constitution's ban on "cruel and unusual punishment," the U.S. Supreme Court held in 2003 that states had considerable discretion in determining punishment for recidivist criminals and that California's three-strikes statute met constitutional muster.

California has the toughest three-strikes law in the nation, and the voters meant it to be tough. It originated as an anti-crime measure that expressed zero tolerance for all crime, not just violent crime.

Not surprisingly, California has had the steepest decline in crime rates in the nation over the last decade. Yet Proposition 66's proponents would have us believe that there is no connection between crime and punishment.

Californians know better. We trust that the good sense of the voters will prevail once again in defeating this attempt to weaken effective crime control legislation.

Link to the article: LA Times-Three-Strikes Hit Its Target (http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-erler28sep28,0,2236642.story?coll=la-news-comment-opinions)

Eric's Homegirl
09-30-2004, 09:27 AM
Didn't Polly Klass's grandfather ask that the laws be changed in refercence
to the 3rd strike law? I personally believe that if CDC wasn't so gun ho about
taking 2nd or 3rd strikers and giving them life w/o parole for weak or non- violent case's, California wouldn't be busting at the seams of over crowded
understaff prisons throughout Ca. My husband for example is a second striker,
his last offense in which he served 6.5 years for breaking into a car and ripping off $60.00, was a non violent felony, even tho before that he had a
violent felony. If he were to rip off a store now let's say for a pack of gum,
he would be sentenced to 25 to life. That is absurd. 3 strikes law should be
passed with the changes mentioned in your post, 3 strikes should be meant
for violent offenders. I think that it would help reduce the revolving door affect in Ca prisons. But that is just my opinion. Suzi

Gate Keeper
09-30-2004, 10:06 AM
Didn't Polly Klass's grandfather ask that the laws be changed in refercence
to the 3rd strike law? I personally believe that if CDC wasn't so gun ho about
taking 2nd or 3rd strikers and giving them life w/o parole for weak or non- violent case's, California wouldn't be busting at the seams of over crowded
understaff prisons throughout Ca. My husband for example is a second striker,
his last offense in which he served 6.5 years for breaking into a car and ripping off $60.00, was a non violent felony, even tho before that he had a
violent felony. If he were to rip off a store now let's say for a pack of gum,
he would be sentenced to 25 to life. That is absurd. 3 strikes law should be
passed with the changes mentioned in your post, 3 strikes should be meant
for violent offenders. I think that it would help reduce the revolving door affect in Ca prisons. But that is just my opinion. Suzi
"Didn't Polly Klass's grandfather ask that the laws be changed in refercence
to the 3rd strike law?"

Yes he did, but no one has printed her father's opinion on the law. I wonder what his reaction is. I recall that her dad used to be against the death penalty, but admitted that he changed his mind once he, and his family became victims of a heinous crime. :confused:

"I personally believe that if CDC wasn't so gun ho about
taking 2nd or 3rd strikers and giving them life w/o parole for weak or non- violent case's, California wouldn't be busting at the seams of over crowded
understaff prisons throughout Ca."

It's not CDC that is gung ho, it's the people of CA that are gung ho. We (CDC) have nothing to do with the law being implemented or overturned. It's not about job security for us. Lord knows that there is still plenty of people committing crime that will keep us employed. For us, it's about your security. The law abiding citizen that doesn't need to be another statistic. 73% of Californians voted this into law. In November we will see where they still stand.

"If he were to rip off a store now let's say for a pack of gum,
he would be sentenced to 25 to life. That is absurd. 3 strikes law should be
passed with the changes mentioned in your post, 3 strikes should be meant
for violent offenders. I think that it would help reduce the revolving door affect in Ca prisons. But that is just my opinion."

If I were him, then I would rather pay for the gum then to rip it off. Especially with the knowledge that if I get caught, I will sacrifice my freeedom for a 50 cent pack of gum. The consequence would not be worth the action. Three strike laws have eliminated the revolving door. That is why there has been a 40+% drop in the crime rate. Because those repeat offenders are not out on the streets repeating crime, after crime, after crime. The 3 strike law was made to target the repeat offenders and give them a clear picture of what their illicit behavior will result in IF they continue to commit felonies. ;)

Eric's Homegirl
09-30-2004, 10:24 AM
I see your point in this, and I hope that you see mine. Eric isn't about to
jeopardize his freedom over a 50 cent pack of gum, but still I do contend that
the laws need to be changed with the 3rd strike ballot. Suzi

Gate Keeper
09-30-2004, 11:12 AM
I see your point in this, and I hope that you see mine. Eric isn't about to
jeopardize his freedom over a 50 cent pack of gum, but still I do contend that
the laws need to be changed with the 3rd strike ballot. Suzi
Yes I do see your's and everyone else's point on the other side of the table. But, I do not agree with it. I hope it's ok to disagree with someone else's opinion, and still be respected. :)

Your statement proves that 3 Strikes is working in his case. Now, if 3 strikes wasn't an issue, do you think the deterrant to not steal would still be there? Things that make you go, hmmmmmm. ;)

Eric's Homegirl
09-30-2004, 11:16 AM
Yes I do see your's and everyone else's point on the other side of the table. But, I do not agree with it. I hope it's ok to disagree with someone else's opinion, and still be respected. :)

Your statement proves that 3 Strikes is working in his case. Now, if 3 strikes wasn't an issue, do you think the deterrant to not steal would still be there? Things that make you go, hmmmmmm. ;) Sure it is ok to disagree
with someone else's opinions. And of course we should all be respected for
what we think, with out judgement upon the other. :thumbsup: No. on your
last question. Suzi

JaimeeLynn
10-07-2004, 03:56 PM
California wouldn't be busting at the seams of over crowded
understaff prisons throughout Ca.

:angry: That is exactly what they refuse to include in these narrow-minded articles!

I believe that if the public knew that our prisons were beyond capacity and that it was THEIR tax dollars that were paying to house all of the 170,000 inmates in custody at $24,807 per year (with a low of $18,562 and a high of $38,554 - information from the 2002-03 tax audit of CDC) they might think twice about cramming our prisons full of guys who got 25-life for a damn beer run! I DO believe that a 3rd stike violent offense should get the 25-life, but, there is too much gray area at present.

If the public had any idea on the statistics of their actions in 1994, I think TONS of people would vote through their pockets and opt to save the deficit in this state. CDC sucks this state dry....as well as their union.

This state is very good at using scare tactics when it comes to voting on corrections issues. It's just a shame because it's been reported that every 1 in 3 people in California is related to, knows of, or knows somebody that is involved with an inmate in one way or another. Guess we can thank Wilson & Davis for that "lock them up and throw away the key" approach!

...But YOU KNOW they don't mind the cheap labor either!

SGT Anonymous
10-07-2004, 05:40 PM
The 3 strikes amendment isn't going to stop prison overcrowding. I was accused in a private message recently of being against the amendment cause of job security. That isn't even an issue. They could release 5,000 inmates right now and we would still be overcrowded and understaffed. Not to mention that statistics say that within 1 year 80% of them will be back in prison.

The solution isn't to release inmates, it is to find a way to keep them from coming back.

Gate Keeper
10-07-2004, 11:49 PM
If the public had any idea on the statistics of their actions in 1994, I think TONS of people would vote through their pockets and opt to save the deficit in this state. CDC sucks this state dry....as well as their union.Once again we are going to sacrifice our personal security for a dollar amount. :shake: And BTW, CHP, CDC, and CYA get 5.8% of the budget. Now, who is sucking the state dry????

JaimeeLynn
10-08-2004, 10:58 AM
I'm sorry Gatekeeper, I didn't know that medical care was so frivolous.

I will say this, at least Sgt. is pretty diplomatic whenever he has something to say, you are just outright ugly about it.

Sacrifice security for dollar amount?....I won't even the address the right-winged comment. Thought this was about 3-strikes?

doingtime2
10-08-2004, 02:25 PM
I can't ignore these comments. First off, I have worked for the Department of Corrections in Illinois, Florida, and California. California's Department of Corrections is the most corrupt system I have ever seen!!! It needs to be put in the hands of the Feds...The CCPOA is way too powerful in this state and leads the corruptness. The medical care in CDC is a joke!!! Do not tell me it is not...I worked it!! I could name you incident after incident where simple things are misdiagnosed. The three strikes law here is not for what it was intended for. However, ignorant people are easily misguided into believing it is making us "safe". Striking out nonviolent offenders is not making anyone "safe". However, let's prosecute the "guards"...and I choke on that word. I have seen them plant contraband, use excessive force on control inmates, and sleep on the job...and I could go on and on...THE LEAST AMOUNT OF FORCE IS TO BE USED TO CONTROL AN INMATE!!!! It is all a scam here in California. Vote yes on Prop 66 and turn the CDC in the hands of the Feds.

JaimeeLynn
10-08-2004, 03:06 PM
Amen, sister!

Gate Keeper
10-08-2004, 06:21 PM
I'm sorry Gatekeeper, I didn't know that medical care was so frivolous.

I will say this, at least Sgt. is pretty diplomatic whenever he has something to say, you are just outright ugly about it.

Sacrifice security for dollar amount?....I won't even the address the right-winged comment. Thought this was about 3-strikes?
#1, I never said anything about medical care in any of my postings, you did. And you continued to state that EVERYONE else has been hit by budget cuts, but we haven't.

#2, sometimes the truth is "outright ugly". I don't pull any punches. I guess it's my east coast upbringing that brings it out.

#3, it ain't nothing about right-wing anything. It's about our personal security as human beings. You and many others want program, after program, after program, for inmates, but fail to realize it comes with a price tag. Then you blame us (frontline officers who don't have power to do crap) for the budget woes. As previously stated we (all of Law Ennforcement in the state) take 5.8% of the general fund budget. Look it up on the CA State website. It's there that I got that number from.

#4, this is about 3 strikes. You are the one that strayed from the original intent of this thread, not I. I only retorted your comments.

#5, read my signature, that is what I'm all about.

freedom anjel
10-09-2004, 03:35 AM
How prideful and arrogant you are to place yourself as the gatekeeper. For every article that you post against Prop 66, I can find an article to post for Prop 66 that will turn the lies into truth. The truth is that we, the people of the state of California were duped (yes, I voted for the law). We were told that it would put away violent criminals. Murderers and rapists. Not drug addicts, mentally ill, homeless, petty thieves, poor people. Those who are against Prop 66 continue to spew lies. They continue to use scare tactics. They continue to prey upon those who do not know the truth. They are as guilty of deceit as the petty offenders they are trying to keep locked up forever. Now, we are going to make things right. Now, we are going to change the law to apply to only violent and serious third felonies. If I had my way, we would do away with the three strikes law all together and strengthen the laws for the truly violent and serious offenders the first time around. A murder rap shouldn't get 10 years with an out in 5, but it does. I see it on television all the time. We do not have to be soft on crime, but we do need to be smart on crime.

I'm glad my gatekeeper is the Lord, Jesus Christ and not you. He is much more merciful and forgiving. I pray for your heardened heart.

SGT Anonymous
10-09-2004, 11:40 AM
No. Why does it have to be right or wrong? Why are people who are against Prop 66 full of lies and deceit? Do you really think that everyone that voted for it last time didn't know what they were doing?

Can't we just disagree? Can't we just have to a difference of opinion? This isn't about who is right and who is wrong this is about the people of California making their OPINIONS known by voting for what they believe to be right. It isn't about good or evil, or right or wrong.

Both sides will spin the facts to make their case. That is how politics work.

freedom anjel
10-09-2004, 01:09 PM
I only know what I am hearing when I hand out flyers. Only one or two out of 250-300 want the 3 strikes law to remain as it is. The rest feel they were duped. Many have loved ones doing excessive time for petty crimes. God is going to move this mountain. This is not a law of justice and it will be changed. Blessed are those who seek justice!

Yes, we can just disagree and yes we can have a difference of opinion, and we do. But to say this isn't about who is right and who is wrong? Tell that to the over 4,000 that are doing 25 to life for possession of a small amount of drugs, for stealing bicycles out of garages, cameras from Sears, liquor from the grocery store, and on and on. I believe that they and their families would tell you that it is all about what is right or wrong. 25 to life for petty crimes, regardless of what the priors are is wrong. The time that the law says they needed to serve for their priors has already been served. If the priors were violent and/or serious enough to warrant a long sentence, then we need to change the sentencing for the original offense. We need to allow the judges to look at the individual circumstances of the crime. Unfortunately, they don't do that under the 3 strikes law in many counties, as they would be seen as soft on crime. A misdemeanor in San Francisco with a sentence of a couple of years, could easily be a felony and 25 to life in San Bernardino county. There's no rhyme or reason. Discretion, although allowed is generally not used.

SGT Anonymous
10-09-2004, 01:16 PM
It is wrong in your opinion. It is all about opinion.

debbiehhh
10-09-2004, 01:24 PM
hello. my brother in law in cali is on his third strike and is doing 25- life non violent non weapon crime. I think the law is wacked and needs to be changed.