Has everyone considered the "Big Picture" if Prop 66 is passed? I understand that you want your loved ones home with you. Who wouldn't? However if this proposition is passed, take a look at these individuals that will be released back to our communities. Most of these will be released immediately due to "time served."

Steven "Cutthroat" Mathews-Rapist/Murderer (http://www.keep3strikes.org/release/Matthews.pdf)

Mark Wellwood-Serial Child Molester (http://www.keep3strikes.org/release/Wellwood.pdf)

Kenneth Parnell-Serial Child Molester (http://www.keep3strikes.org/release/Parnell.pdf)

John Bunyard-"Nob Hill Rapist" (http://www.keep3strikes.org/release/Bunyard.pdf)

Robert Boyce-Serial Rapist (http://www.keep3strikes.org/release/Boyce.pdf)

Rudolph Casillas-Career Criminal (http://www.keep3strikes.org/release/Casillas.pdf)

Think about these individuals, along with many others like them, being released back into our coummunities. They will again have access to rape and murder our family, friends, and neighbors.

I am sure that we have all thought about those people but we have also thought about the people that stole a slice of pizza or Disney video tapes or a package of socks or some one that had one joint too many in their pocket. :eek:

Every sinlge person that was convicted under the present law is NOT eligible to be resentenced. The new law will not affect those whose 3rd strike was a violent or serious felony.

The law in it's present form should be changed and I will be the first person in line at my polling place to vote yes on 66. :thumbsup:

So what your telling me is since the state of California didn’t enact laws that address these types of crimes with longer prison terms everyone should suffer? No that’s not the way, what we need is stronger laws put in place to address the rapist and child molester so that they won’t harm innocent people. What we are doing now is having everyone suffer (Imprisoned) for a few bad apples. Incarceration not only affects the inmates it has an impact on their family's, friends and the community we live in. Voting Yes on Prop 66 is humane thing to do. If you’re a guard and have interacted with some of the inmates you know in your heart that there is several inmates that shouldn’t be there just like there is several that should never see the light of day. Focus on the young men, life gone for nothing but a petty crime. It could be your child, remember that mother that turned in her child in for robbing the neighbor house. She was trying to do the right thing because he was on drug and needed help. Now his in prison doing 25 to life. I don’t think that’s what she wanted nor anyone else. A law like this can have us all in prison if it continues. I say……….


Vote Yes on Prop 66!!!

Hi All


Okay I did my research and a lot of it to back my support for reforming our 3 strikes law.
Unfortunately the facts as stated on the No on 66 website are skewed I can right here and now debunk that these fine men will not be released under the revised 3 strikes law.

I have read the entire text of the proposed law for Proposition 66 and will share the following subsections that will whole heartedly apply to these fine men the opponents of 66 say will be released. So here we go!

This is an exact reproduction of the provision of prop 66 that excludes those with prior violent convictions and actually adds and restates enhancements to sentence as prescribed by prop 184 (1994)

(1) If a defendant has one prior serious and/or violent felony conviction that has been pled or proved, the determinate term or minimum term for and indeterminate term shall be twice the term otherwise provided as punishment for the current serious and/or violent felony conviction

(2) (A) If a defendant has been convicted of a serious felony, as defined in section 1192.7, as amended by the three strikes and child protection act of 2004, or a violent felony, as defined in section 667.5 as amended by the Three Strikes and Child Protection act of 2004, and has two or more prior serious and/or violent felony convictions, as defined in sections 667.5, 1192.7 or section 707 of the Welfare and Institutions Code, as amended by the Three Strikes and Child Protections Act of 2004, that have been pled, proved, and that were brought and tried separately the term for the current serious and/or violent felony conviction shall be the indeterminate term of Life imprisonment with the minimum term of the indeterminate sentence calculated as the greatest of the following


(i) Three times the term otherwise provided as punishment for each of the current serious and/or violent conviction subsequent to the two or more prior serious and/or violent felony convictions
(ii) Imprisonment in the state prison for 25 years
(iii) The term determined by the court pursuant to section 1170 for the underlying conviction including any enhancement applicable under chapter 4.5 (commencing with section 1170) of title 7 of part 2, or any period prescribed by section 190 or 3046.

Amendments to section 1192.7 of the penal code find the following as serious and/or violent felonies (partial list)
(1) Murder or Voluntary Manslaughter
(2) Mayhem
(3) Rape
(4) Sodomy by force, violence, duress, menace, threat of great bodily injury, or fear of intimidate and unlawful bodily injury on the victim or another person
(5) Oral copulation by force, violence, duress, menace, threat of great bodily injury, or fear of intimidate and unlawful bodily injury on the victim or another person
(6) Lewd or lascivious acts on a child or minor under the age of 14 years

And on and on 41 in total.

So as you can see friends Proposition 66 will not release a single individual convicted of these Serious and/or violent crimes as the opponents want you to blindly believe, it actually reestablishes that if you commit 1, 2 then 3 serious and/or violent crimes the original provisions of prop 182 (1994) are now actually strengthened and you will do 3 times the sentence on your second offense and life on your third.

This law only applies to those 2nd and 3rd strikers that have been found guilty and are sentenced under prop 182 (1994) on Non-Serious/Non-Violent Crimes. As Amended by the Three Strikes and Child Protection act of 2004.


Don’t be fooled, get educated and revise the 3 Strikes Law.

But then that’s just my educated opinion based on the text of the law.


RPinSD
:thumbsup:

YES!!!! REVISE the 3 Strikes Law!

RPinSD,
Great information... Thanks for pointing this out.. Sounds like the website mentioned in the first post isn't all that accurate.

I also agree, vote YES ON PROP 66. :thumbsup:

My only issue with the 3 strikes amendment is these inmates are not people who made a single mistake. They are career criminals who have seriously broken the law as least 2 times prior. Just cause they caught the last strike on Petty Theft with a Prior doesn't mean they aren't dangerous people.

I have tried to stay away from these threads and this will be my only post on it.

No doubt there will be people let out who will commit more crimes. Hopefully they will continue to be petty crimes. Maybe it will be balanced by people who actually change their lives for the better. I'm sure the figures will be available.

Just cause they caught the last strike on Petty Theft with a Prior doesn't mean they aren't dangerous people.


Let';s look at a hypothetical situation.

Man rapes a woman serves say 10 years, gets out, burglarizes a home, spends another 6 years, gets out (has 1 violent strike and 1 serious strike) and he gets caught w/a small bag of dope and we send him down for 25 to life (or even give him 5 years, double it and give him 2 prison priors and then make him serve 85%)

He's just served MORE TIME for a petty offense of drug possession. AND YOU ARE ALRIGHT WITH THAT?

What ever happened to the TIME fits the CRIME? Maybe we need longer sentances for serious and violent felonies. Problem is here this law was designed to keep serious offenders in prison but its insnared those for longer periods who rightously don't deserve to be in prison for those lengths of time for the current crimes they committed.

Petty offense with priors. I'll be completely honest...without even knowing a person with those convictions I DO NOT want him in my neighborhood. What I see is a repeat offender with three convictions he did time for. Even if those three are his only encounters with the law(doubtful someone is "unfortunate" enough to commit three crimes and be caught for a ll three)how many victims of theft or even rape are there? I'll add this....if someone has a consistent employment record and stable family life for a long period maybe he is using drugs recreationally and that is a different story. However, from my experience, a person with this record would have numerous felony and misdemeanor charges on record with little stability in their life. Of course there are exceptions and even people with a long list of convictions can change their life. The argument is how many more victims do you risk by giving more chances? Rape, steal, use drugs...if it sounds like a bad person maybe thats what it is...

Let';s look at a hypothetical situation.

Man rapes a woman serves say 10 years, gets out, burglarizes a home, spends another 6 years, gets out ...AND YOU ARE ALRIGHT WITH THAT?

What ever happened to the TIME fits the CRIME? Maybe we need longer sentances for serious and violent felonies. Problem is here this law was designed to keep serious offenders in prison but its insnared those for longer periods who rightously don't deserve to be in prison for those lengths of time for the current crimes they committed.
I'm sure the vicitims of his violent strike and his serious strike are ALRIGHT WITH IT. And yes I'm alright wiht it too. If a person KNOWS that he/she continues to involve him/herself in crime and they commit the crime, then why do we want to continue to let them out and break the law? Ever so minor, as you feel.

You are correct that we do need longer sentences. That is one of the reasons 3 Strikes was enacted, because our penal sytem was a friggin joke when it came to holding criminals accountable for their actions. Unitl I got involved in Law Enforcement, I always thought if you were sentenced to 20 years, you did 20 years...Period. 3 Strikes put teeth back into the penal system. There has been a drop in crime since 3 Strikes was enacted. For two reasons that I can tell. 1. The criminals that were being released time and time again back into the streets, are no longer in society committing crimes. 2. The ones that have two strikes against them, think more than twice about committing crime, knowing that another strike will result in a "Life" sentence.

I grew up watching Baretta on TV..."If you can't do the time, then don't do the crime." No matter how much time.

My father always told me that I can do ANYTHING I want to. However, if I get caught breaking the law, be prepared to pay the price. Basically, if the consequence isn't worth the action to you, then don't do it.

3 Strikes wasn't enacted just to apply to violent criminals. It was enacted to get the criminals off the streets that continue to victimize society. Yes, shoplifting is victimizing society. You and I pay higher prices every year to make up the difference that the businesses lose to shoplifters. You are being victimized. How do many people get money to buy their dope?...By stealing, robbing, and burglarizing, me, you, your neighbors, etc... If this law is revised and we let these people back into the streets, watch and see our crime rates begin to rise again.

For instance, one inmate on my yard...Doing 25 To Life for kidnapping and robbery. He was also a drug dealer and all of his prior convictions were for sales of CS. He told me himself, he would get out and sell dope again, because it is all he and his family know. HE AND HIS FAMILY. His wife, mother and sisters, are all a part of his dope ring. Why?...Money! He was telling me that he could make over a grand a day himself. Just by selling dope on the streets. With all the training the prisons could provide, do you actually think he would go out and get a real job? Hmmmm. :confused: Even though he was making over a grand a day, he had to get even greedier and rob an individual on the streets. I will not describe the whole details of the robbery, but it wasn't pleasant at all. The victim will never be the same again. :mad:

My very own cousin was making @ $40,000 a month selling heroin and weed, before he got busted in Texas. Where do you think all those customers were getting their money to buy the dope? From working? I don't think so. They were getting it from stealing from you and I.

That's why many other states have also enacted 3 Strikes laws. To get the repeat offenders off the streets and send a message to those that are either involved in crime, or are thinking about it. Crime does not pay anymore. The price is going to be more than you are willing to pay, if you continue to victimize society.

We all have an opinion here, like they say, "opinions are like a_ _ _ _ _ _ _ , everyone has one!" :rolleyes: It's all up to the voters and on November 2nd we will finally see if the 3-strikes law will be amended. Regardless if you are for or against PROP 66 you need to make your voice heard, so VOTE!

I personally am making sure that all my friends and families vote YES on PROP 66! :thumbsup:

We all have an opinion here, like they say, "opinions are like a_ _ _ _ _ _ _ , everyone has one!" :rolleyes: It's all up to the voters and on November 2nd we will finally see if the 3-strikes law will be amended... :thumbsup:
Agreed! That's what makes me so proud to be an American citizen. We can actually have a say in what laws are enacted, and voice our opinions publicly. Win or lose, which ever opinion you may have, in the end, we as a people will decide how our society advances, one way or another. :thumbsup: :)

Hmmm...from what I understand, we do have LONG sentences for serious and violent felons...As to who gets to decide how long a person stays in prison...well thats another matter. There are many out here who dont know whether or not to vote yes on prop 66. I'm weighing the pro's and con's. I do know this...the non violent felons who receive shorter sentences, seem to get right back out there and committ the same crime (and some different ones), versus someone who has done a long time in prison and wishes to turn their life around...maybe longer sentences isnt such a bad idea? Definitely not 25-Life...but long enough to make sure...?

But thats just my opinion...not even an educated one...but an opinion nevertheless..

Yas

I think it is very easy to say exactly what you would or would not do when you have not been put in that specific situation. What I do know is in life I learned to never say never, because that will become your next lesson.

What I say to those of you that oppose Proposition 66, is only those of you that have never made three mistakes in your life should throw stones at a glass house. These people are humans and an injustice is being done simply because there is no uniformity in the sentencing laws.

Under Proposition 66 no one will be released prior to having another hearing, absolutely no one.

We live in a Democracy lets practice it, in all that we live.

I AM SORRY GATEKEEPER BUT I WILL HAVE TO DIS AGREE WITH YOU ON THIS ONE. THE PUBLIC SHOULD NOT BE FOOLED BY THE HYPE THAT PROP 66 WILL RELEASE THESE SERIOUS OFFENDERS (VIOLENT) BACK INTO OUR COMMUNITY! THIS IS FALSE! PROP 66 ASKS FOR REFORM FOR THE CRIMES THAT SHOULD NOT BE LOOKED AT AS VIOLENT! RAPE, MURDER AND SO FORTH WILL STILL AND WILL ALWAYS BE UNDER THE 3 STRIKES LAW! PROP 66 AGREES THAT VIOLENT CRIMES SHOULD HAVE THE 3 STRIKES LAW, HOWEVER PETTY THEFT AND CRIMES LIKE THAT SHOULD NOT PUT AWAY SOMEONE FOR LIFE BUT SHOULD PUNISH THEM FOR THE CRIME THEY COMMITED! IF YOU LOOK UP VIOLENT CRIMES YOU WILL SEE A LOT OF THINGS THAT ARE CONSIDERED "VIOLENT" ARE NOT VIOLENT AT ALL SOME DON'T EVEN HAVE INTENT TO HARM ANOTHER PERSON! HOW IS STEELING PIZZA "VIOLENT?" THIS SHOWS MY POINT! PROP 66 IS ABOUT REFORM NOT THE DEMOLISHING OF THE 3 STRIKES LAW! YOU BETTER BELIEVE PEOPLE THAT RAPE AND MURDER WILL BENEFIT NOTHING BY THIS LAW PASSING!

PART OF VOTING IS ABOUT GETTING THE FACTS STRAIGHT! BACK IN 1994 WHEN THE 3 STRIKES LAW PASSED 75% OF PEOPLE THAT VOTED "YES" NOW SAY TEHY HAD NO CLUE WHAT CRIMES WERE AFFILIATED WITH THIS. THEY BELIEVED IT WAS FOR RAPIST AND MURDERS AND REAL VIOLENT CRIMES! SOMEHOW THE SYSTEM PUT NO DEFINITION TO SOME CRIMES WHICH LEAD TO A HUGE UN JUSTLY SYSTEM.

This is exactly the way I see it Jenny, and I hope the voters understand this time.

Has everyone considered the "Big Picture" if Prop 66 is passed? I understand that you want your loved ones home with you. Who wouldn't? However if this proposition is passed, take a look at these individuals that will be released back to our communities. Most of these will be released immediately due to "time served."

Steven "Cutthroat" Mathews-Rapist/Murderer (http://www.keep3strikes.org/release/Matthews.pdf)

Mark Wellwood-Serial Child Molester (http://www.keep3strikes.org/release/Wellwood.pdf)

Kenneth Parnell-Serial Child Molester (http://www.keep3strikes.org/release/Parnell.pdf)

John Bunyard-"Nob Hill Rapist" (http://www.keep3strikes.org/release/Bunyard.pdf)

Robert Boyce-Serial Rapist (http://www.keep3strikes.org/release/Boyce.pdf)

Rudolph Casillas-Career Criminal (http://www.keep3strikes.org/release/Casillas.pdf)

Think about these individuals, along with many others like them, being released back into our coummunities. They will again have access to rape and murder our family, friends, and neighbors.These individuals that
are listed above in your post SHOULD remain imprisoned for the rest of their
natural lives, however as I stated in a different post in this forum some 2nd and 3rd strikers that haven't commited another serious felony should not be
sent back to prison for life. Suzi

VOTE YES ON PROP 66!! We need to excersize our right to vote and be heard!!! The only way that this law is going to pass is if WE get out there and educate the people and inform them of the truth behind this proposed law. If they don't have a loved one or even just a friend in prison already, If they don't have anyone in their lives that this law doesn't affect THEY WON'T CARE ABOUT CHANGING THIS LAW!! The legislators, lawmakers, everyone that is involved with opposing this proposition doesn't care about us minorities. They don't know what it's like being married to an inmate and what we have to go through just to try and keep our families together. So the more people that we talk to and encourage to vote YES ON PROP 66 then the more chances we'll have.

OH!!! and just so you people know Proposition 66 WILL NOT AUTOMATICALLY FREE ANY INMATE!!!! there are rumors going around that even Charles Manson will be released if this law passes. It will send a LIMITED amount of inmates who have been sentenced to ONLY 25 years to life or more to go back to court for RESENTENCING NOT FOR RELEASE!!! get informed people!!!!

[QUOTE=SGT Anonymous]My only issue with the 3 strikes amendment is these inmates are not people who made a single mistake. They are career criminals who have seriously broken the law as least 2 times prior. Just cause they caught the last strike on Petty Theft with a Prior doesn't mean they aren't dangerous people. :mad: :blah: :angry:

Not every inmates situation is the same. The majority of them probably have made more than a "single mistake" BUT you don't know of or about these "career criminals" or their situations. A person who caught their last strike on a petty theft really isn't such a "dangerous person" if the theft was less than $50. I'm not saying that it's alright to steale but it is not a reason to lock them up in prison for 25 years to life. How does that rehabilitate them??

The true intent of this Prop 66 is to lock up those murderers, rapists, child molesters and keep them locked up because they DESERVE to be there not the persons who stole a VCR, a pack of T-shirts.

This is a copy and paste from my response to your PM. I wasn't aware you posted this here as well or I would have just responded here. Sorry for the double response.


Actually I do know about a lot of them because I spend 40+ hours a week around them, talking to them. The person you are talking about who is serving life because of petty theft could be a rapist or child molestor or murderer and could be dangerous. Just because his 3rd strike is for petty theft with a prior doesn't discount his previous violent felonies. This 3rd strike amendment WILL be releasing rapists and murderers.

I stand by my statements

Prop 66 is not letting out serious violent offenders. there will always be petty theives amoung us in society anywhere in the world. as far as violent sex offenders. i know of three cases that the three strikes law did not put them away. one is living with his wife in vacaville , ca. after serving his sentence for several violent attacks against women. Cary verse is out after being convicted three times and sentenced three times. where was the three strikes law for him? what would you rater have someone who seals your stereo or someone running off with your kid.. vote yes on prop 66 for the child protection act!!!!!!!!!!!!!

...what would you rater have someone who seals your stereo or someone running off with your kid..Neither! :shake: Why are we as a society beginning to mitigate crime due to the severity of the crime in your subjective opinions? :( No one should be a victim of ANY crime. PERIOD! That's why the majority of Californians voted for the original 3 Strikes. To keep the career criminals off the streets who continue to commit crimes (violent or non-violent). The ones that are sentenced under 3 Strikes needed at least one violent, and one serious strike for the third strike to apply. ALSO...the judges on these cases had the discretion to either apply, or not apply the third strike to the cases. I know for a fact that this happens. I have seen the judges and DAs in Del Norte NOT apply the third strike to inmates in court for violence they have committed at the prison, even though they could have. My suggestion is, if you do not like how the judges are ruling in these cases, then vote them out on election day.

Every One Has A Choice Its Up To Us To Make The Correct One And Voice It...
Prop 66 Is Better That What We Have Know...reform It...vote Yes On Prop 66...

I pray for those whose hearts are so heardened, who walk without mercy and who continue to judge everyone else but themselves. So many things that I could debate here.

First, the fact that stealing from stores, etc. raises costs for all of us. So does going home with too much change that the cashier gave you, but how many are honest enough to give back the overage? So does dishonesty on ones income taxes, but how many cheat on their charitable contributions year in and year out? How many work under the table and never even report their earnings? So does taking supplies from our jobs and using the phone while at work, but how many take home whatever they can get their hands on, use the copier and fax for personal copies, and talk on the phone for personal use? These are just a few examples. There are hundreds more. It all costs us, the consumer more; and it is all stealing, whether you want to own up to it or not.

What about the cheating politicians? The ones that fleece the people of the cities, counties and states? Usually, when they are caught with their hands in the cookie jar, it's just a slap on the wrist. Those who bankrupted Orange County did little to no time and never came up with the money to reimburse the people who live there. The same thing is happening to San Diego county. Yet, taking 55% for restitution from the families of the incarcerated, who neither commited the crime, nor can afford to pay for it is considered acceptable. I think it's shameful!

What about the black market CO's? The ones who make money selling food, cigarettes, drugs, and anything else they can sell at a 200-1000% mark up? We hear about them getting caught, occasionally, but do they ever have to serve time? Not often. More than likely, it's suspension without pay and possibly loss of thier jobs. We know it goes on at every prison. We know it's kept secret and covered up, even by the "good and honest" CO's. But never are they imprisoned for life, even though they've "robbed" those who are already incarcerated and at their mercy for even some basic things like "real meat" or decent food. Thieves none the less.

What about the rogue cops? They get away with so much, yet I have yet to hear of even one being struck out and given 25 to life, even though their crimes against society are even more disturbing because they took an oath to serve and protect.

What about the people who can and do change? I know many and am one myself. Changed their lifestyle from one that may not have been the most upstanding to one with character and integrity. While I've always worked and always paid my bills, I've done my share of partying, etc. I can tell you this, the clubs are full of people, including a lot of police officers and CO's, drinking and driving, and doing a lot of other things that aren't exactly upstanding. Yet, we dare to judge one another!!

One, two, three mistakes and it's throw away the key. Doesn't matter if you were young and angry at the hand life dealt you. Doesn't matter if you didn't have parents at all and grew up in foster homes where you were abused and molested. Doesn't matter if momma was a crack addict and the only food you knew was what you could scrounge out of the dumpster. Doesn't matter that no one was home to raise you because everyone was at work and the television taught you that it was glorified to commit crimes. Doesn't matter that some were born with the right parents and some were not. Doesn't matter that movies and video games have resulted in a desensitized generation, with no one held accountable. Doesn't matter any more. Just doesn't matter. We as a society are failing on so many fronts. It makes me crazy!! :cry:

Growing up in the 70's, experimental use of drugs was commonplace and not often criminalized. Now, we have third strikers doing 25 to life for one joint. Some of us outgrew drugs and others just weren't as lucky. They didn't have parents to tell them what was right or wrong. They didn't have the education to go out and get a decent paying job. They didn't have the skills to find work that would put a roof over their heads or pay the bills. Many don't even have the skills to set up a checking account or manage money. Our society as a whole has abandoned drug rehab (unless you are wealthy and can afford a private clinic). Education is so lacking in the inner city that many offenders are basically illiterate. Instead of trying to help people and improve the life of the poor, we stand on our pedastals and look down on them, judging them as crooks, thieves, robbers, drug addicts. Useless pieces of human trash. :shake:

The three strikes law is not applied across the state evenly, just as it is not applied across the races evenly. Discretion in the courts was not allowed until several years after the initial law was passed and then only a few judges will even utilize the discretion they have been given. If you want to say that stealing a $30. camera from Sears is the same as murder, then you must live a perfect life. The Bible says the we murder with our tongues when we gossip about somebody and tear them down with our words. Should that too be considered murder in man's court?? It certainly is in God's court!

Some may see me as a bleeding heart liberal. I just see me as a human being with a heart. Yes, I feel for the victims. Yes, I feel for the families. And yes, I feel for those who have taken the wrong path and gotten into trouble. Time heals all wounds if we let it and God will heal them even faster if we give them to Him. I've been victimized by many in my lifetime, none of whom ever went to prison over it and while there was a time when I was bitter and angry and wished they all were dead, now I realize that I am the way I am because of them. Pain and hurt look less like scars and more like character in the hands of God.

Oh God, I thank You that You are not a three strikes God. We would all surely be spending eternity in hell if You were!! I thank You for Your mercy and Your grace. Because, there but for the grace of God, go I.

VERY WELL SAID FREEDOM ANJEL. I couldn't agree with you more. So true and wonderfully written. :thumbsup:

AMEN!! Absolutely Freedom Anjel!!

First off, as I see it, the crimes committed and the time served is the punishment. PERIOD! If one continues to commit VIOLENT crimes, then YES send them back for 25-Life. But if one steals a friggin piece of pizza, regardless of his past, it does NOT in no way shape or form justify 25-Life. You can spin this how you want Gate Keeper, it does NOT justify it. I understand that we make choices in our life. At the same time, where the hell are we educating anyone incarcerated? Where are we teaching them the tools to make it in society today? Where are they supposed to get a job? Since we've made it almost impossible for the majority of the released to get an education or a job, what exactly did you or anyone else expect them to do? How were they to afford any food or shelter? I could care less if them stealing a piece of pizza raises the price of pizza for me. Frankly, if we had programs in place to educate and reform CRIME, we would stay at an all time low. If we had BETTER programs to feed our poor and uneducated, we have LESS crime. If we put our friggin money where our mouths are, the school systems would be in better shape and would educate our less fortunate and give them better opportunities to grow up and live criminal free lives to begin with. But since we continue to take money away from our CHILDREN's education, and puting it to incarceration, I don't see much end in sight. Have you done any homework GateKeeper? Did you know it costs LESS to rehabilitate then to incarcerate? Drug offenders doing serious amount of time and NEVER receiveing education or rehabilitation will almost ALWAYS lead to more drug dealing once released. Yet, if we put them in drug centers for lengthy amt of times, costing less, statistics show, they recommit LESS! Less crime, Less money. Now there's a concept.

Absolutely vote YES on this proposal. If I could vote in your state, you'd be damn sure I'd be there supporting this reform.

Stacy

...Have you done any homework GateKeeper? Did you know it costs LESS to rehabilitate then to incarcerate? Drug offenders doing serious amount of time and NEVER receiveing education or rehabilitation will almost ALWAYS lead to more drug dealing once released....

Stacy
Yep, I sure have. My best teachers are the convicts I supervise. I fall back on my previous post...

...For instance, one inmate on my yard...Doing 25 To Life for kidnapping and robbery. He was also a drug dealer and all of his prior convictions were for sales of CS. He told me himself, he would get out and sell dope again, because it is all he and his family know. HE AND HIS FAMILY. His wife, mother and sisters, are all a part of his dope ring. Why?...Money! He was telling me that he could make over a grand a day himself. Just by selling dope on the streets. With all the training the prisons could provide, do you actually think he would go out and get a real job? Hmmmm. :confused: Even though he was making over a grand a day, he had to get even greedier and rob an individual on the streets....

I'm voting YES on Prop 66. Thanks to all of you that are getting the word out there and showing your support. Let's bring the law back to the way it was originally intended to be. The punishment should fit the crime. Let's stop putting people away for life for non-serious, non-violent crimes. It breaks my heart to see the governor of California misleading the public on a issue that is so near and dear to my heart.

Thanks for spreading the word and bringing the truth out! YES on 66!

My fiance's first charge was theft, which, I agree,is bad. He got slammed. This time he got caught with a bit over an ounce, so he got dealing. It wasn't in seperate bags, and that's not what he was doing. But that doesn't matter now. My point being, he has 2 felonies. Neither one was anyone hurt or attemped to be hurt. But if he gets another felony, he's gone for a while. He had the same job for 4 years. Took VERY good care of our son and his other son. Got his other son EVERY weekend. That was our life...our family and being happy!!!! I am clean now and will continue to be. I can't say I agree with what "they" say is wrong, but my opinion about what is right and what is wrong doesn't matter. I know my fiance is not a bad person and doesn't belong where he is. He worked ,took care of his family, NEVER hurt anyone, and hell, PAYED TAXES...isn't that all "they" care about anyways!!! Sorry if I offended anyone. Just wanted to make my voice heard.

I voted today and it was YES on Prop 66! If anyone would like to send a Message to ARNOLD about his AD on Prop 66 or anything else I received this Message from another GROUP:

Hi Everyone,

If you go to you can send an email to Schwarzenegger.
www.govmail.ca.gov I'm realistic and know his aides probably don't give
him any hate mail to read. He likes thinking Californians worship
him. But it's worth a try. It's a good way to get rid of some of
that anger we're all feeling!

I sent him a nice size message telling
him that we are not somehow less human because we are incarcerated
or have loved ones who are incarcerated, nor are we less deserving
of protection from our government. I pointed out that he has made
his alliances very clear and I asked if he has ever read either the
text of the Three Strikes Law or Proposition 66, or if he has talked
to anyone about them other than district attorneys, prison guards
and others who stand to gain from preservation of the current law.
Of course we know he hasn't. Anyway, it would be great if we could
innundate him with messages!

All I can say about the 'big' picture is there are those type people walking around everyday in our society.

Just a Thought to all who think Prop 66 doesn't need to be amended:

DO THE CRIME PAY THE TIME?

So, if criminals pay the time for their crime on Strike one, why is it right to put them away for Life if they steal a bottle of aspirin on there 3rd felony.?????????

"SO WE CAN PUNISH THEM AGAIN FOR STRIKE ONE AND TWO?"

That is what the 3 strikes law is saying NOW! Amending it would be JUST!

I am tired of the Government being run on NO BRAINERS!

Has everyone considered the "Big Picture" if Prop 66 is passed? I understand that you want your loved ones home with you. Who wouldn't? However if this proposition is passed, take a look at these individuals that will be released back to our communities. Most of these will be released immediately due to "time served."
Think about these individuals, along with many others like them, being released back into our coummunities. They will again have access to rape and murder our family, friends, and neighbors.

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
"Yes On 66" Committee
Sam H. Clauder II, 951-653-3500
Mike Kaspar, 949-338-0646

Prop 66 Author Responds to Governor's Press Conference

Following are comments from Prop 66 author Sam Clauder in response to this morning's press conference featuring five Governors opposing Prop 66:

What did five Governors have in common this morning? They all lied about Proposition 66!

It's the same old lies we've been told about the three-strikes law for ten years. It doesn't matter if they come from Republicans or Democrats. It doesn't matter if the spin is conservative or liberal.

The voters know these lies are being perpetrated by elected officials because their interest is invested in being re-elected, not in representing the voters.

By all accounts -- polls, votes, letters, and anecdotes -- the people have favored amending the three-strikes law for more than five years.

A massive poll conducted in 1999 by academics at the University of California, Riverside, reported that an overwhelming majority of voters would support amending the three-strikes law to exclude non-violent crimes including burglary of an unoccupied residence, petty theft, and drug possession.

Yet, elected officials dismissed this data and the legislature failed to amend the three-strikes law for many reasons -- primarily because office-holders treat citizens like their children rather than their employers, and act like they know better than the people who they are supposed to represent.

This is not representative democracy -- it's big brothers and sisters imposing their own agenda on the public instead of implementing the public's agenda for the voters they are supposed to represent.

It's politics from the selfish, for the selfish, and by the selfish, to get re-elected at all costs.

The people have heard all these lies before, and were fooled by them in 1994. But not this time.

Thankfully, the voters of California are smarter than their elected officials and will correct the injustice of the three-strikes law by approving Proposition 66 next Tuesday.

Here are the real reasons they oppose Proposition 66:

Schwarzenegger - One year after he recalled Davis with promises of restoring California as a different kind of public servant, withdrew a 10% raise for prison guards to give them a 15% raise instead. Now lies about Prop 66 with the hopes of receiving millions in political contributions that the prison guards union gave to Governors before him.

Gray Davis – vetoed every bill passed by the Legislature regarding the three-strikes law. Even vetoed a bill to study the effects of the law. Received tens of millions of dollars in political contributions from the prison guards union.

Pete Wilson - lied to everyone in 1994 claiming that the three-strikes law would only apply to violent crimes when he knew it would apply equally to all felons, sentencing petty thieves and drug users as if they, too, had kidnapped, raped and murdered Polly Klaas. First Governor to receive multi-million-dollar political contributions from the prison guards union.

Jerry Brown – supported Citizens Against Violent Crime (CAVC) as it wrote and promoted Prop 66. Accepted political contributions for his Oakland mayoral campaigns from CAVC and its Board Members, until he recently began running for Attorney General (2006) and decided it was more opportunistic to pander to the prison guards for political contributions by opposing Prop 66. Same old Jerry Brown political philosophy of "whichever way the moon beams."

Bill Lockyer – Served as an advisor to CAVC and Prop 66 proponents Sam Clauder and Jim Benson for the past five years as they worked to develop the initiative and qualify it for the ballot. Switched sides to run for Governor (2006) and compete with Schwarzenegger for multi-million dollar contributions from the prison guards union. Recently married Nadia Davis, Orange County attorney who supported CAVC and Prop 66 through the years and got third-striker Ron Carmona out of a life-term for mistaken identity. Ever since Lockyer changed sides Nadia Davis has remained strangely silent.

Marc Klaas - "flip-flopper" on three-strikes - supported it at first, opposed it in 1994, supported it again, opposed it again, and now claims he currently supports it and wants petty, non-violent criminals sentenced as though they, too, kidnapped, raped and murdered his daughter. Has so suffered from the loss of Polly through the years that he has lost his wife, his girlfriends, his home, his job, has battled alcoholism, was almost arrested for spousal abuse, and is currently under psychiatric treatment and medication for clinical depression.

Please correct me if I am wrong ...but I thought nobody would be released if Prop 66 was passed without going through some board and being approved for release. In any case, if the system is so stupid that it releases people who should definitely be in prison that is another issue. Prop 66 should be passed because to do otherwise is inhumane and uncivilised. It is as simple as that.
The "science" behind the "three strikes law" is well document as being poor science (at best). Gatekeeper, I am sure you believe in your arguments but
if one looks at the real evidence none of it is supported in fact.

According to the California Department of Corrections, nearly 65% of those serving second and third strike sentences were convicted of nonviolent, petty offenses such as simple drug possession or shoplifting.

Proposition 66 will restore three strikes to what voters intended and proponents promised: http://www.yes66.org/images/check.gif

Keep violent felons in prison for 25 years-to-life http://www.yes66.org/images/check.gif

Ensure those convicted of nonviolent, petty crimes are punished justly http://www.yes66.org/images/check.gif

Allow a limited, one-time resentencing hearing to ensure people convicted of nonviolent, petty crimes are not serving harsh three strikes sentences intended for rapists, murders and child molesters http://www.yes66.org/images/check.gif

Increase sentences for child molesters http://www.yes66.org/images/check.gif

Save California taxpayers a hundreds of millions of dollars in prison costs over the next several years

Moreover, under the current situation we put a female in prison for 25 year without parole for forging a $500 cheque and what do we do about the people
at Enron who robbed citizens of far far larger sums than that!

Fix Three Strikes, Yes on 66
http://www.yes66.org/

MEDIA ADVISORY FOR:
Friday, October 29, 2004

PRESS CONTACTS:
Mark Capitolo 916-372-3729, cell 916-267-8894, Celia Alario
310-721-6517

PROPOSITION 66 CAMPAIGN AND ASSEMBLYMAN MARK LENO REQUEST GOVERNOR TO
RETRACT "PATENTLY FALSE" TV AD
Statement found to be false by Superior Court Judge

SACRAMENTO - Proposition 66 campaign and Assemblyman Mark Leno,
Chairman of the Assembly Public Safety Committee, respectfully ask Governor
Arnold Schwarzenegger to publicly correct his untrue TV ad opposing
Proposition 66.

In the commercials, purchased by Schwarzenegger's California Recovery
Team, Schwarzenegger states falsely that with Proposition 66, "26,000
dangerous criminals will be released from prison. Child molesters.
Rapists. Murderers." An identical claim was ordered stricken from the Voter Information Guide because a Sacramento Superior Court judge
declared it "patently false" and "mathematically impossible." The governor was a party to that lawsuit, and has been told that the statement is false,
yet he repeats it in his TV ads.

"Californians deserve the truth," said Assemblyman Mark Leno (D-San
Francisco). "This TV ad is not worthy of the Governor, especially in
the last days of the campaign. Responsible leadership requires fact and
reason, not promotion of fear and untruths."

OOHHH Kathy!! That is good!! I love it. I knew God would not let the darkness take over the light! He is an awesome God!!

This is silly...you don't need a three strikes law to put a child molestor or murderer in prison for a suitable time

OOHHH Kathy!! That is good!! I love it. I knew God would not let the darkness take over the light! He is an awesome God!!

YES SO TRUE! Here is MORE:

Latest 3x Update:
Every single vote is going to matter on this one.
Arnold is touring the state and his ads are hitting
hard -- misleading voters and scaring them into
backing off. The polls continue to drop as
"star-struck voters" fall for the opposition's lies.

Please talk to everyone you know and let them know
that Prop. 66 is only going to let the non-violent and
minor offenders have access to the court to have their
sentences reconsidered. No-one serving time for a
serious or violent offense will be affected under
Prop. 66.

Thank you,
Matt Gray

California is the only state in the nation that applies a 25-years-to-life sentence to ALL felonies, including drug possession, shoplifting, and literally hundreds of other offenses that do not warrant a life sentence. This has resulted in thousands of inhumane, unreasonable sentences and hundreds of millions of wasted tax dollars every year. I don’t think voters ever intended to treat crimes like shoplifting and drug possession the same as violent crimes.

GET THE BIG PICTURE AT:
http://www.yes66.org

and

http://www.amend3strikes.com/

I hope I have been able to get across that THE BIG PICTURE is a LIE!

REMEMBER THIS: No-one serving time for a serious or violent offense will be affected under Prop. 66.

Love
Kathy
PS I DO NOT HAVE A LOVED ONE IN PRISON ON THE 3x's Law,
but my heart goes out to those that DO!

Thank you Kathy!!!

Steven "Cutthroat" Mathews-Rapist/Murderer (http://www.keep3strikes.org/release/Matthews.pdf)
Mark Wellwood-Serial Child Molester (http://www.keep3strikes.org/release/Wellwood.pdf)
Kenneth Parnell-Serial Child Molester (http://www.keep3strikes.org/release/Parnell.pdf)
John Bunyard-"Nob Hill Rapist" (http://www.keep3strikes.org/release/Bunyard.pdf)
Robert Boyce-Serial Rapist (http://www.keep3strikes.org/release/Boyce.pdf)
Rudolph Casillas-Career Criminal (http://www.keep3strikes.org/release/Casillas.pdf)
Think about these individuals, along with many others like them, being released back into our coummunities. They will again have access to rape and murder our family, friends, and neighbors.

THINK ABOUT THE 4000 INMATES IN PRISON UNDER THE THREE STRIKES LAW FOR PETTY THEFT! SHOULD THEY BE LOCKED UP FOR LIFE BECAUSE OF THESE GUYS?

YOU LIST 6 WELL HERE IS MY LIST:
http://www.facts1.com/index.html

FACTS Top 150 Unjust 3-Strike Stories Rank First_Name Last_Name Short_desc
1 Rene Landa stealing a spare tire
2 Mark A. Bishop possession of a controlled substance
3 Luciano Orozco possession of .05 grams of heroin
4 Silvio Constantino Hernandez possession of a weapon
5 Johnny Quirino petty theft of razor blades
6 Doug Rash possession of .4 of grams of cocaine
7 Ray Anthony Means possession of .09 grams of cocaine
8 Keffer Runnels petty theft
9 Kelly Lee Scherer possession of controlled substance for sale
10 Thomas Williams possession of a stolen bicycle
11 Richard Anthony Edwards possession of 1/4 gram of controlled substance
12 Edward Parsons possession of .06 grams of meth
13 Ruben Arriaga shoplifting a $70 drill from sears
14 Shane Reams aiding and abetting a $20 sale of cocaine
15 Kenneth Lee Wade burglary
16 George Michael Lane possession of $40 worth of roommate's jewelry
17 David Lynn Robinson attempted forged check and forged check
18 Thomas Edwards possession of .085 grams of meth and stolen license plate
19 James Ely attempter burglary of vacant car at car wash at 2:00 a.m.
20 Daniel Lerma attempted burglary
21 Daniel Larsen possession of short knife
22 David Allen Marchant receiving stolen property
23 George Anderson filling out a false DMV application
24 Steven Bell taking bike out of garage
25 Christian Alexander Guerra walking away from fire camp
26 Rafael Elwell four counts of possession of controlled substance for sale
27 Corey Santifer two counts of vehicle burglary
28 D.C Harris Burglary
29 Robert Edward Hardy burglary
30 Tracey Waldron burglary
31 Arley Leslie receiving stolen property
32 Exequiel Ripoyla receiving stolen property and 2nd degree burglary
33 Gilbert Musgrave possession of stolen VCR and camcorder
34 Michael Branson receiving stolen property
35 Bobby Jimmerson burglary
36 Mario Campos burglary
37 Robert Allin Kushner receiving stolen property
38 Thomas Carmen Ferrari II possession of a weapon
39 Gabriel Pineida stealing a portable vacuum from a patio
40 Forrest Lee Jones burglary
41 James Alexander burglary
42 Ronald Ray Towne burglary
43 Brian S. Gerler shoplifting of a $47 deadbolt lock
44 Ricky Ramirez possession of less than .15 grams of cocaine
45 Jeffrey Buathier possession of one gram of meth
46 Oscar Mata attempted vehicle theft
47 William Rouss attempted burglary
48 Darrin C. Jones stealing a sweater, cash, and shirt from Nordstroms
49 Ronald Lee Gilpen four counts of receiving stolen property
50 Joseph Broadway burglary
51 Robert E. Browne burglary
52 Roderick E. Forrest unlawful taking of a vehicle
53 Cassey LaMar Whigham 3 counts of credit card fraud
54 Louis Ronald Frank possession of parapheralia in prison
55 Steven Stanley, Jr. petty theft
56 Joseph Ryan Carrillo burglary
57 David Olivas selling a stolen tv for $50
58 Armando Garignan unlawful taking of a vehicle
59 Dale Drew Godown attempted burglary and burglary
60 David Samuel Sr. petty theft
61 Eric Simmons possession of 3 stolen ceiling fans
62 Jerry W. Critton unlawful taking of vehicle
63 Kevin Louis Galloway attempted robbery
64 Robert Pico possession of a controlled substance
65 Bernice Cubie possession of 46 milligrams of cocaine
66 Jon Pierre Hoefling burglary
67 Tyrone Fuller burglary
68 Randy Ray Mino possession of .57 grams of meth
69 Nathan Thomas shoplifting pack of t-shirts worth $33
70 Dwight Rolls possession of .3 grams of cocaine
71 Charles Wright disregard for safety
72 Richard Morgan shoplifting of baseball glove
73 Richard W. Earle possession of a stolen motorcycle
74 Scott Smith possession of controlled substance for sale
75 DeWayne Washington possession of a controlled substance
76 Michael Ratley possession of a syringe with 1.37 milligrams of heroins
77 Curtis Garrett possession of .04 grams of cocaine
78 Michael John Correia unlawful taking of a vehicle
79 Richard W. Haskin possession of .30 grams of meth
80 Donald Thomas Gibbs stealing and forging blank checks of cousin
81 Esau Rogers Jr. possession of inop. firearm and receiving stolen property
82 Daniel Robertson manufacturing a controlled substance
83 Willie Joseph aiding and abetting sale of .7 grams of cocaine
84 Brian David Cody unlawful taking of a vehicle
85 Raymond Scott possession of a weapon
86 Martha Bridget McCaig possession of .004 grams of meth
87 Reginald Lee Wooten 2nd degree robbery
88 Sergio Garibay conspiracy to sell $20 worth of cocaine
89 Roscoe Sheets possession of controlled substance and paraphernalia
90 Robert Lamont Ross possession of .5 grams of cocaine
91 Joey Bonner stealing a set of tools and a car polisher from Sears
92 Ronald C. Reyes Receiving stolen property
93 Rugley R. Saunders 2 counts of burglary
94 Gabriel Reyes burglary
95 James Edward Anderson possess of less than 2 grams of marijuana in prison facility
96 Eugene Alexander Dey possession of a couple of hundred dollars of meth in car
97 Robert D. Barlow petty theft
98 Luis Demetillo possession of a knife
99 Sherman Brice possession of a controlled substance
100 Richard Banales possession of $3.00 worth of con. substance while in jail
101 James Allen shoplifting tube of hair grease and then fighting security
102 Mark Wilcox walking away from prison facilities while under the influence
103 Michael James forgery of a check for $94.94 at Alpha Beta
104 Alvis Bailey attempted 2nd degree burglary
105 Marvin Newsome sale of .16 grams of cocaine
106 Alan Barnes vehicle burglary and evading arrest with reckless driving
107 Linda Susan Teague forgery
108 Richard Eagan 2nd degree burglary and petty theft
109 Raphael Rayford shoplifting 21 packages of asprin from a store
110 James Jackson burglary of 2 VCRs
111 Robert DI Blasi shoplifting Double AA Batteries (value = $2.69)
112 Jesse Gomez 2 counts of unlawful taking of vehicle
113 Damon A. Smith possession of 3.3 grams of cocaine
114 Demitris McGee possession of a handgun
115 Curtis A. Smith possession of a controlled substance for sale
116 James Rios for unlawful taking of vehicle and rec. stolen prop.
117 Joey Arthur Fernandez aiding someone who stole baby formula and tylenol
118 Billy Gonzales petty theft
119 Jeff Caito petty theft
120 Oreste Alfonso petty theft of car stereo
121 Wallace Long possession of cont. substance for sale
122 Hayward Doss possession of $2.00 of controlled substance
123 William Ochoa welfare fraud that amounted to about $2,100
124 Abdul Mateem forgery of a $250 check
125 Dana R. Desosa shoplifting $14.00 of items
126 Santos Reyes lying on a drivers license application
127 Robert Beed possession of cont. substance and paraphernalia
128 Ricky Fontenot possession of a weapon
129 Danny McDowell 2nd degree burglary
130 Arnold Johnson possession of 1.25 grams of cont. sub. for sale
131 Chester Carlos Poole vehicle theft
132 Vincent Truel shoplifting AA batteries
133 Glen W. Robison petty theft
134 Anthony Ray Williams sale of a controlled substance worth $15
135 Damon Campbell possession of a weapon
136 Ernest Henry Thompson possession of .15 milliliters of heroin
137 Rick Meucci possession of 1 gram of heroin
138 Derrick Sledge 2nd degree burglary, forgery and fraud
139 Anthony Tucker 2nd degree burglary
140 Herman Clifford Smith trying to cash a $193 forged check at a bank
141 David James Hardin Shoplifting an air compressor
142 John A. Humphrey Jr. grand theft
143 Raymond Anthony Mendez possessing and trying to cash stolen checks
144 Frederick Morgan petty theft and possession of a cont. subs.
145 James Gerald Hale transportation and possess for sale of marijuana
146 Ralph S. Anaya Commercial burglary
147 Freddie Aguirre commercial burglary more like a petty theft
148 William Charles 2nd degree robbery and others
149 Joseph Fomby, Jr. possession for sale of marijuana
150 Williiam N. Martinez petty theft with a prior

I WOULD LIST THE FULL 4000 INMATES but THIS IS MY BIG PICTURE! I hope everyone EDUCATES THEMSELVES ABOUT THIS 66 PROP. DON"T BE A FOOL and REMEMBER THE BIGGEST LIARS ARE POLITICIANS! GET FACTS! :angry:

LOVE
Kathy :thumbsup: :grouphug:

Listed above are 150 California Three-Strike stories from our database. We believe it only scratches the surface demonstrating the injustice of this law. For instance, we do not receive letters from prisoners who are illiterate, cannot read English, many who are mentally disabled, those who have not heard about us, those who have heard about us but choose not to write us, and those who have committed suicide or died in prison.
All of the "media stories" are ranked based on estimated economic damages of the strikes on a prisoner's record by our computer. Presented above--in ascending order--are the top 150 stories we have gathered thus far.
If you are interested in having inmates included in our database of stories, please use our forms or find out what we want by clicking here.

http://www.facts1.com/stories2/stories2.htm

JUDGE CALLS NO ON 66 BALLOT ARGUMENT
“PATENTLY FALSE”

The following are comments of Judge Raymond Cadei, Sacramento County Superior Court, on August 6, 2004, in a hearing on the Proposition 66 ballot arguments and rebuttals, in which opponents falsely claimed that Proposition 66 would result in the release of 26,000 felons. The judge called that claim “patently false.”

Judge Cadei also ruled that since the California District Attorneys Association had in fact made the false statement not as a fact, but as an “estimate” in their opinion, opponents could cite it only if they called it an estimate and attributed it to CDAA.

Source: Reporter’s transcript of proceedings.

“Let me tell you the one I do have a problem with is the rebuttal argument, which is the next exhibit, where I think it makes in the very first paragraph a patently false statement. It says if it passes, and then it makes reference to this young man who you discuss will be released, along with 26,000 other convicted criminals. Now, I look at the statistics and the numbers. It looks like that’s mathematically impossible.”
“The problem I have is that it doesn’t appear from any of the information that’s been submitted that there is evidence anywhere near 26,000 or 21,000 second strikers are currently serving life sentences, which is a precondition according to the face of the initiative for applying for re-sentencing. So it seems as phrased to be false to me. It isn’t false to say that the District Attorney’s Association has made that estimate or that as many as 26,000 may apply for resentencing. I think stating that as a fact, it says if it passes, his son will be released early along with 26,000 other convicted criminals. That’s at a minimum misleading.”

“This says as a fact that 26,000 convicted criminals are going to be released. It doesn’t say that they may be released subject to the Court’s supervision and re-sentencing considerations. What you’re making is a flat assertion of fact, which seems to be at best gross speculation and at worst probably mischaracterizing the operation of the law.”

“I don’t know how you want to phrase it, but that statement seems to be inaccurate and misleading.”

Interestingly enough both of my inmate clerks are AGAINST Prop 66. Their reasoning? Prop 66 will be releasing inmates that have had a chance to change and didn't. It will also plug up the court system and divert attention from other inmates.

Both my clerks are doing life for 2nd degree murder that they did when they were teenagers and both have been in prison 20+ years. They have no sympathy for inmates that get out and come back.

Just found it interesting.

Interestingly enough both of my inmate clerks are AGAINST Prop 66. Their reasoning? Prop 66 will be releasing inmates that have had a chance to change and didn't. It will also plug up the court system and divert attention from other inmates.

Both my clerks are doing life for 2nd degree murder that they did when they were teenagers and both have been in prison 20+ years. They have no sympathy for inmates that get out and come back.

Just found it interesting.

Well, then tell those inmates I need their Name and CDC# because I am working with the Diocese of Los Angeles and the Human Rights Watch and Juvenile Lawyers of San Francisco to change the Law for Juvies triad as Adults.

So you are saying "WHY PLUG THE COURTS?" compared to "LIFE AT THE COST OF MY HARD EARNED MONEY FOR TAX's TO HOUSE THEM?"

HELLO IS ANYONE HOME?

Maybe your Clerks are receiving the same AD information that ARNIE is ADVERTISING! Copy this Thread and give it to your CLERKS and then we will see what their OPINION will be! GET THE FACTS! And I know they don't have it! THAT IS PRISON POLITICS! The less inmates know the better off they are is the mind set of CDC.

The Three strikes law is STUPID! People who kill are getting LIFE. People who Rape are getting Very Long Sentences do to law change and if not the Inmates will take care of them. I know the 3 x will not change but amending it is Good for ALL THOSE who deserve a Second Chance! Have you heard of MERCY on those SOULS? Dang!

Again, tell your Clerks to get all the FACTS! And if they had access to internet I am sure they wouldn't make a statement like that to you! After all maybe they are just telling you what you want to hear. My son was a clerk to a Warden and let me tell you, inmates know how to Play the Game of Prison Politics to get the little extras!

Love
Kathy

ok I am confused now... Is prop 66 only for california??????

ok I am confused now... Is prop 66 only for california??????

Yes, this is the California Forum of PTO!

Love
Kathy

They know the facts. 2 Violent felonies = 2 Strikes. You refuse to follow the law so you get life for felony number 3 and we are going to let you out. We will be rewarding people for refusing to obey the law. There is no misunderstanding.

They know the facts. 2 Violent felonies = 2 Strikes. You refuse to follow the law so you get life for felony number 3 and we are going to let you out. We will be rewarding people for refusing to obey the law. There is no misunderstanding.

Well, I guess you don't have a loved one in Prison do you? People do make mistakes BUT LIFE for petty theft? MY GOODNESS! No rewards will be given only JUSTICE!

Maybe we should Whip them TOO!

WOW ! This is a hot thread... Interesting points of view from all whom have posted.. I just have one question though... When did Sgt's. Get their own inmate clerks?.. Let alone two inmate clerks???....I know Lt.s and Captains that dont have inmate clerks.. there is definately a shortage of inmate clerks, it would seem the Sgt. has them all...

I highly doubt they are inmates with 20 years served.. I would tend to think they are convicts myself and should be respected as such, 20 years in prison will teach a man and then some.. My thoughts on Prop 66 to follow....

Pssst... Kathy... Look No Hands... and No Excessive Contact... LMAOOO

Well, I guess you don't have a loved one in Prison do you?

You know what they say about assumptions.


If you make one mistake you deserve a chance. Maybe even two mistakes. But if you KNOW you have 2 strikes and you still don't want to follow the rules then it is time to remove you from society so you can't do anymore people any harm.

I would be much more likely to want to let someone who committed a single murder out of prison early than someone who has proven themself to be a career criminal. 3rd strikers don't deserve a break in my opinion.

WOW ! This is a hot thread... Interesting points of view from all whom have posted.. I just have one question though... When did Sgt's. Get their own inmate clerks?.. Let alone two inmate clerks???....I know Lt.s and Captains that dont have inmate clerks.. there is definately a shortage of inmate clerks, it would seem the Sgt. has them all...




I have worked at several prisons and the Captains, Sergeants, and Lieutenants have all had inmate clerks. Actually only one of the clerks is a Sgt's clerk, the other is the Lt's clerk but they both work together to do whatever needs to be done.

Is it true they enhance misdemeanors into felonies and you can get life on the three strikes for simple shoplifting or other non-violent crimes? If so, as I've heard, that IS a travesty - and a waste of tax money, time and space....sorry...

You know what they say about assumptions.
If you make one mistake you deserve a chance. Maybe even two mistakes. But if you KNOW you have 2 strikes and you still don't want to follow the rules then it is time to remove you from society so you can't do anymore people any harm.

BUT SGT ANONYMOUS I agree in a small way, but giving someone LIFE is not JUSTICE for the minor things people are going in on the 3 x!

You want to punish them FINE, give a JUST SENTENCE not LIFE! Most inmates have mental issues or drug problems. LIFE is just UNJUST in my book!

This is more about Job security than Justice. Just my opinion! And if you do have a loved one in Prison, I am surprized that you feel this way!

I do but I won't go into details. And as I have stated in other threads, this has nothing to do with job security. We are so overcrowded and understaffed right now that the one good side I see in Prop 66 is that the population will go down.

The way I see it they aren't getting life for a petty crime. They are getting life for proving to be a career criminal. They have proven 3 times that they can't follow the rules. Time to stop worrying about the poor inmate and start worrying about their next victim.

Again, just my opinion.

Time to stop worrying about the poor inmate and start worrying about their next victim.
:( I'm a victim SGT Anonymous and it is the Injustice of our System that has victimized me.

Yes, there are Real Victims, but case studys have found that most inmates are in prison for drugs. I feel strong about a Sentence Guide line. If we had a SG then maybe I would feel better about our Justice system and then maybe I wouldn't waste my time advocating for those poor Inmates.

But, even then would there be justice for the Falsely accused? And with CDC's Kangaroo Kourts I just don't see the light. Tough Love can only go so far, and if my son had not gone to Prison I guess I would be narrow minded today and not the person that I am! And I can thank the Justice & Correctional System for making who I am NOT ONLY today, but who I will be tomorrow!

With that said Sgt. wouldn't that also apply to inmates who have hit that revolving door?? The retailation that I have experianced and heard from Inmates, no wonder they strike out for life!

THANKS!
Kathy

I partially agree with you. There needs to be some way to make sure that inmates get out of prison and don't come back. The revolving door has to stop. And when that happens, I will be all for giving inmates a chance to get out and prove they can stay out. But until that happens statistics say that 80% of the inmates that are going to be released on Prop 66 will be back in prison.

Everyone wants to talk about how many inmates will be released. I want to know how many new victims it will create.

I agree! the revolving door has to stop so we all agree with that.

Sorry, I don't find it interesting...I find it profoundly sad!
I could gofurther into the reasons why but I am afraid it will just increase animosity.

Interestingly enough both of my inmate clerks are AGAINST Prop 66. Their reasoning? Prop 66 will be releasing inmates that have had a chance to change and didn't. It will also plug up the court system and divert attention from other inmates.

Both my clerks are doing life for 2nd degree murder that they did when they were teenagers and both have been in prison 20+ years. They have no sympathy for inmates that get out and come back.

Just found it interesting.

Its not a question of rewards. Its a question of common sense, humanity and civility. We are not saying they shouldn't pay a reasonable price for their crimes. If you want to talk about rewarding people for refusing to obey the law take a look at plea bargaining first before using this red herring to argue against Prop 66!

They know the facts. 2 Violent felonies = 2 Strikes. You refuse to follow the law so you get life for felony number 3 and we are going to let you out. We will be rewarding people for refusing to obey the law. There is no misunderstanding.

Please take a look at the literature re "proven themself to be a career criminal"...you are just regurgitating nonsense! If you want to look at the real situation may I suggest you look at the work of James Austin, director of the Institute on Crime, Justice and Corrections at the George Washington Univerity, Washington DC.
You know what they say about assumptions.


If you make one mistake you deserve a chance. Maybe even two mistakes. But if you KNOW you have 2 strikes and you still don't want to follow the rules then it is time to remove you from society so you can't do anymore people any harm.

I would be much more likely to want to let someone who committed a single murder out of prison early than someone who has proven themself to be a career criminal. 3rd strikers don't deserve a break in my opinion.

Has everyone considered the "Big Picture" if Prop 66 is passed? I understand that you want your loved ones home with you. Who wouldn't? However if this proposition is passed, take a look at these individuals that will be released back to our communities. Most of these will be released immediately due to "time served."

Steven "Cutthroat" Mathews-Rapist/Murderer (http://www.keep3strikes.org/release/Matthews.pdf)

Mark Wellwood-Serial Child Molester (http://www.keep3strikes.org/release/Wellwood.pdf)

Kenneth Parnell-Serial Child Molester (http://www.keep3strikes.org/release/Parnell.pdf)

John Bunyard-"Nob Hill Rapist" (http://www.keep3strikes.org/release/Bunyard.pdf)

Robert Boyce-Serial Rapist (http://www.keep3strikes.org/release/Boyce.pdf)

Rudolph Casillas-Career Criminal (http://www.keep3strikes.org/release/Casillas.pdf)

Think about these individuals, along with many others like them, being released back into our coummunities. They will again have access to rape and murder our family, friends, and neighbors.

I do not agree with you. My husband is a three strike.. He has never had a violent crime. But is 25 years for driving charge. His cell is doing 2- 25 year for drug charges.
How can you find this right.
We are paying $1000.00 a day to house them and $6.00 a day to teach our children.

In order for his first 2 felonies to be strikes then they would have to be Serious/ Violent Felonies. If he knew he had 2 strikes already he should have walked the line and obeyed the law.


Anyone that commits crime after crime after crime, knowing the consequences of his actions is a career criminal in my eyes. I don't need to read a book to know that.

"In any case, if the system is so stupid that it releases people who should definitely be in prison that is another issue". To me, this is the issue and the reason the Three Strikes Law was created.

Although I am not in favor of an across the board release of all Three Strikers whose Third Strike was non-violent I understand the argument in favor of 66. I also see first hand why a persons entire history(criminal, family, employment...)should be considered rather than merely looking at the life sentence for a petty crime argument. In the cases I have seen, the sentence was earned prior to the non-violent crime.

Seeing both sides of the issue, the problem with 66 is that it is not clear cut in what will be changed if it passes and I have a big problem with it. If I knew for certain it would result in 4000 inmates being released who had met some citeria showing a good possibilty for productive lives I would be in favor of it. The realist in me says over half of them will return to prison so the question is how many victims will this produce?

The 4000 number alone is enough to raise questions but now we are also hearing that there is a loophole that will allow Second Strikers to return to court and have sentences reduced putting them back on the streets sooner.

I am not as certain as I was that this will pass. If it does, I am sure there will be success stories. Will those that return to prison continue to be non-violent or will there be horrible stories that remind us of why the law was here in the first place? Lots of questions. I am open-minded but I doubt I can be convinced that 66 passing is good for public safety.

If you want to talk about rewarding people for refusing to obey the law take a look at plea bargaining first before using this red herring to argue against Prop 66!
No Red Herring. The DAs and Judges still use plea bargaining today. You have no idea how many inmates have gassed (thrown feces and urine) on staff and walk out with just a 2-3 year sentence even though they were candidates for their 3rd strike. That is if they even pick the case up. Have you ever had feces and urine thrown in your face? Had it go up your nose, in your eyes, and in your mouth? That's reality in a Level IV 180* prison. If you have and no one did anything about it, then maybe you would feel differently. Inmates that have stabbed staff and other inmates get to plead out for 2-3 years for their VIOLENT crime without a strike. I've seen it all too often. Remember, the DA and the Judges have a choice in applying the 3rd strike, or rejecting it. In my personal experience, here in Del Norte County, I have seen them plea bargain more so than applying strikes to sentencing.

The idea of making more programs to keep inmates from coming back will never work. They have been trying it all across the US since the 70s and it hasn't worked. How do you think 3 Strikes came about? It came about because all throught the 70s, 80s, and early 90s vocational, educational, and parole programs had no effect on the 75-80% recidivism rate in the prison system. That is 75-80% with all the programs that were available to keep them from coming back. The programs became a black hole for money to be thrown into, without any positive result in keeping criminals from committing crimes. We just made them smarter criminals. 3 Strikes works as it stands now. I will vote "No" on tuesday.

As the Sarge said, don't make assumptions. Many of us in the system have, or have had relatives and loved ones incarcerated.

Anyone that commits crime after crime after crime, knowing the consequences of his actions is a career criminal in my eyes. I don't need to read a book to know that.
AMEN!

Please, I beg of you, don't use the word "Amen" unless you truly know the covenant with God that it represents. Your comments in this and other threads indicate that you neither know the Lord, nor walk in His way. Please be respectful of that at least. His mercy endureth forever and I pray that He will have more mercy on your souls than you seem to have for others.

Isaiah 5
21 Woe to those who are wise in their own eyes and prudent and shrewd in their own sight!

Isaiah 10
1 WOE TO those [judges] who issue unrighteous decrees, and to the magistrates who keep causing unjust and oppressive decisions to be recorded,

Matthew 23
13 But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, pretenders (hypocrites)! For you shut the kingdom of heaven in men's faces; for you neither enter yourselves, nor do you allow those who are about to go in to do so.

Psalm 73
8 They scoff, and wickedly utter oppression; they speak loftily [from on high, maliciously and blasphemously].

Psalm 76
9 When God arose to [establish] judgment, to save all the meek and oppressed of the earth. Selah [pause, and calmly think of that]!

Psalm 103
6 The Lord executes righteousness and justice [not for me only, but] for all who are oppressed.

Proverbs 14
31 He who oppresses the poor reproaches, mocks, and insults his Maker, but he who is kind and merciful to the needy honors Him.(1)

Proverbs 22
16 He who oppresses the poor to get gain for himself and he who gives to the rich--both will surely come to want.

Ecclesiastes 5
8 If you see the oppression of the poor and the violent taking away of justice and righteousness in the state or province, do not marvel at the matter. [Be sure that there are those who will attend to it] for a higher [official] than the high is observing, and higher ones are over them.

Isaiah 1
17 Learn to do right! Seek justice, relieve the oppressed, and correct the oppressor. Defend the fatherless, plead for the widow.

Isaiah 11
4 But with righteousness and justice shall He judge the poor and decide with fairness for the meek, the poor, and the downtrodden of the earth; and He shall smite the earth and the oppressor with the rod of His mouth, and with the breath of His lips He shall slay the wicked.

There is plenty more on the subject, but this will give you some spiritual food to chew on for a while (at least I hope and pray you will chew on it). Most of those incarcerated under the Three Strikes Law are from poor and oppressed areas. Most are illiterate and without decent education, job skills or opportunity. Most have drug addictions or mental problems, both of which should be serviced by our government and not our prisons. Drug rehab, mental health programs, job training and most importantly, brotherly love will cause the changes that are needed. If you lock them up and treat them like animals and then wonder why they act like animals, you really need to understand the needs of humans. That is why family contact is important. That is why community programs are important. That is why we are here. To help one another. The greatest commandment is to "Love one another, as I have loved you". Our prison system and those that run it haven't got a clue. They continue to raise themselves above the prisoners, oppress the poor and condone what most would consider "criminal" behavior within the brotherhood of prison guards. I have tried to stay out of this thread for the most part, but to see an "Amen" go up to my Father without fear of His wrath for the covenant being made, required correction. If you are a believer, then I pray that you receive this in love and as correction. If not, then I pray that someday you will know Him, because only then will you understand what you just read.

God bless and lift you to a higher place.

This is for gate keeper, I guess the 1 who started the thread. You mentioned steven matthews in your post. You said something like "do we realy want these people out?" Yes, I realy do want him out. Steven matthews did commit some awful crimes in the past, like murder, but that was long ago. I can asure you he is a changed man. He hasn't commited any violent crimes in years. He is facing 25 to life for something petty, for having a machette on him, but i was there when he found it that night, when we were walking down the street, he picked it up and took it with him. But they made it seem like he was out to kill, he was not. It is not fair that he might have to spend the rest of his life in prison, he is already 52. He is a changed man. He is sweet, funny, and very child-like.

You are both correct...you don't need a book to know what is right by your eyes. The book is to discover what is fact.

Isn't it amazing that the countries in Europe that have a more civilised and humane penal system have a much lower incarcaration rate and a lower crime rate. In fact I might argue that the ones with the most humane system have the lowest.

I guess we will just have to agree to disgree.

Executions are not allowed in the European community...it, rightly in my opinion, is consider inhumane, uncivilised and barbaric. Yet the murder rate in those countries is much lower than it is here. There are a number of reasons,in my opinion as to why this is so, but no doubt you do not have to read a book to know that executions are an effective deterrent. Of course,
all the evidence is otherwise.

Titantoo

Damn - I fell asleep and missed all the good stuff....wow, we got some deep-thinkers in here....I really do appreciate seeing both sides of this issue - actually - three sides, thanks to Freedom Anjel....I don't live in California and I don't know enough about the three strikes issue, however, I have heard many sad stories about non-violent offenders who have been caught up in this more often than hardened criminals getting life sentences. I have my own personal feelings on how to reduce the population of prisons, overcrowded court calendars, drug offenses and a majority of street crimes, but it's not a popular opinion - I believe drugs should be legalized - but the entire judicial system, and all supporting systems are so dependent on the drug culture to keep jobs for lawyers, judges, law enforcement, re-habs, prisons, and on and on...
My theory, correct me if you'd like (I'm sure more than a few will), is that the war on drugs is not working - it's not supposed to work - or a huge chunk of the work force would be out of jobs....
If drugs were legalized they wouldn't demand the big bucks that they're drawing now. Every third world pot and coke farmer wouldn't be sending the crap here if it didn't pull in gobs of money like it does now. Like every other commodity it would be subject to market price and taxation and when there's no big money to be made from it the flow of drugs might just dry up....
I'm a firm believer that this country needs to stop legislating against stupidity - you cannot protect every citizen against his own stupidity and those that choose an alternative life style...
I have been around many drug addicts in my life....going back to the pot-craze of the 60's - I've known coke addicts, crack addicts and heroin addicts...and I've known alcoholics. To me, alcohol is by far the most destructive and dangerous drug I've seen used by individuals - it creates aggressive, violent and uncontrollable behavior. I personally have never seen a coke, crack or heroin addict violently out of control while using the drug - I know, many of you probably have - but I have not. I have seen some pretty devastating things occur from alcohol abuse though.
Lest you misinterpret me, I have never done any type of illegal drug - ever - so I'm not advocating drug use for personal reasons but I do wonder what could happen if the stuff was made legal, let individuals use their own judgment in its use, just as in alcohol use and stop trying to protect people from their own bad choices....
And I do believe the government could stop the flow of drug traffic into this country if IT WANTED TO.....drugs support a whole lot more in this country than just dealers....
When pot costs $1 a bag - little ol' ladies won't be getting thumped in the head for their purses...

Okay, I'm tough, let me have it.....LOL

I AM FOR PROPOSITION 66 ALL THE WAY!!!!! :thumbsup:

HOWEVER, I ALSO UNDERSTAND THOSE WHO ARE AGAINST IT AS WELL. I BELIEVE THAT THOSE INDIVIDUALS WHO HAVE COMMITTED A SERIOUS CRIME LIKE MURDER,RAPE OR CHILD MOLESTATION SHOULD REMAIN BEHIND BARS AND THOSE WHO HAVE BEEN SERVING TIME ON PETY THEFT(such as stealing a lasagna) SHOULD BE RELEASED. WHY SHOULD SOMEONE WHO STOLE A LASAGNA HAVE TO BE GIVEN LIFE IN PRISON?????YES, THEY DID COMMIT A CRIME BUT NOT AS SERIOUS AS SAY MURDER WHICH DEFINITELY DESERVES LIFE IN PRISON. BASICALLY ALL PROP 66 WILL BE DOING IS KEEPING THOSE VIOLENT CRIMINALS IN PRISON AND RELEASING THE NON-VIOLENT ONE'S WHO HAVE SERVED A LARGE % OF THEIR TIME IF NOT LESS.

THIS IS A NEVERENDING ISSUE AND THEIR WILL BE THOUSANDS OF DIFFERENT OPINIONS FOR AND AGAINST THE 3 STRIKES RULE. SO LET'S JUST HOPE FOR THE BEST AND SOONER OR LATER ALL OUR LOVED ONE'S WILL HOPEFULLY BE BACK HOME WITH THEIR FAMILIES WHERE THEY BELONG!

ALL CALIFORNIANS
DON'T FORGET TO VOTE
:yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: "YES on 66" :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes:
TUESDAY NOVEMBER 2nd

Damn - I fell asleep and missed all the good stuff....wow, we got some deep-thinkers in here....I really do appreciate seeing both sides of this issue - actually - three sides, thanks to Freedom Anjel....I don't live in California and I don't know enough about the three strikes issue, however, I have heard many sad stories about non-violent offenders who have been caught up in this more often than hardened criminals getting life sentences. I have my own personal feelings on how to reduce the population of prisons, overcrowded court calendars, drug offenses and a majority of street crimes, but it's not a popular opinion - I believe drugs should be legalized - but the entire judicial system, and all supporting systems are so dependent on the drug culture to keep jobs for lawyers, judges, law enforcement, re-habs, prisons, and on and on...
My theory, correct me if you'd like (I'm sure more than a few will), is that the war on drugs is not working - it's not supposed to work - or a huge chunk of the work force would be out of jobs....
If drugs were legalized they wouldn't demand the big bucks that they're drawing now. Every third world pot and coke farmer wouldn't be sending the crap here if it didn't pull in gobs of money like it does now. Like every other commodity it would be subject to market price and taxation and when there's no big money to be made from it the flow of drugs might just dry up....
I'm a firm believer that this country needs to stop legislating against stupidity - you cannot protect every citizen against his own stupidity and those that choose an alternative life style...
I have been around many drug addicts in my life....going back to the pot-craze of the 60's - I've known coke addicts, crack addicts and heroin addicts...and I've known alcoholics. To me, alcohol is by far the most destructive and dangerous drug I've seen used by individuals - it creates aggressive, violent and uncontrollable behavior. I personally have never seen a coke, crack or heroin addict violently out of control while using the drug - I know, many of you probably have - but I have not. I have seen some pretty devastating things occur from alcohol abuse though.
Lest you misinterpret me, I have never done any type of illegal drug - ever - so I'm not advocating drug use for personal reasons but I do wonder what could happen if the stuff was made legal, let individuals use their own judgment in its use, just as in alcohol use and stop trying to protect people from their own bad choices....
And I do believe the government could stop the flow of drug traffic into this country if IT WANTED TO.....drugs support a whole lot more in this country than just dealers....
When pot costs $1 a bag - little ol' ladies won't be getting thumped in the head for their purses...

Okay, I'm tough, let me have it.....LOLAMEN!

I agree with most of what you said. ;) However, crime has been perpetrated long before there was ever any war on drugs. There is no job security as Sgt. Anonymous has stated.

Even if certain drugs were legalized, the people that commit the crimes are still going to need to pay for them. How many of the addicts have you known keep down a 9-5 job and pay for their habit legally? Dope will not be a $1 a bag. That's out of the question. You know that it will be turned into a corporate business and with the demand as high as it is now, I venture to say that the cost will not come down too far from what it is now. Who's going to pick up the medical costs for the addicts that can't afford to take care of their health? Their behavior is what will destroy themselves, and you know as well as I that we (society) will pick up the tab for the poor little ol' druggy. You see, the problem is not the legalization portion. All the ones I grew up with that were/are addicts can't keep a job/profession. The drugs themselves keep them from being able to function well enough to hold a job with a lucrative pay. They resort to crime-Shoplifting, robbing, stealing from family and friends, etc...

Freedom Anjel please don't beg for anything. If I want to be preached too, I will go to church. You have absolutely no idea what my spritual background is, or where I stand on religion. So I would appreciate if you don't lecture me with scriptures. I haven't a problem with your religious beliefs, but don't affront me with your sermons please.

Did anyone read the portion of my post about the DAs and judges not picking up strikes on violent felonies? No one has commented on that portion of the thread. Why not?

Patches2000, I'm sorry but my opinion is that Mr. Matthews should have never been released from prison to begin with. Now people on this board can see that others like Steven Matthews WILL be released back into society. And not all have changed such as your claim about Steven Matthews.

I know if my son got out of prison and did another stupid crime that got him sent back to prison OMG they better not let him out ever because I am afraid I might %ILL him! I could never go through this twice never!!!let alone three times:slap:

Prop 66 will allow everyone eligible to have their case reheard in the County they were convicted. This will not allow everyone to be set free it will allow people who have served a FAIR amount of time for the crime to be set free versus serving a life sentence. If they have done the time for the crime and in some cases more time why should they not be free?

Did anyone read the portion of my post about the DAs and judges not picking up strikes on violent felonies? No one has commented on that portion of the thread. Why not?

Gate Keeper I read that portion of the thread, and want to ask you one question.. You have obviously been in the prison system for years and understand how it works..So tell me in your opinion, if two inmates where to have a fist fight on the yard, and no injuries where sustained by either party, what should be the consequences to both individuals? Do you feel that this should go out to court for punishment or should this be handled internally by CDC staff and a disciplinary committee?

History shows us that DA's and Judges do not pick up additional 3 strike felony cases, as they never seem to have enough evidence to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that the incarcerated inmate being charged is guilty.

This is a result of CDC's failure to collect or in some cases fabricate the appropriate evidence to ensure a conviction. Not to mention the fact that everything these days is a DA referal in the eyes of many CDC staff and ISU staff.

CDC has sent so many cases to the DA's Office in the past 5 years that they cant possibly take every single case to trial ! Check the statics for DA referals from State Prisons county to county- the truth lies in the numbers!

I also read the portion of the thread for which you asked us family members if we have ever had feces and urine thrown on us. I am bothered by that statement, as you make it as a "Standard of Behavior" for all that are incarcerated in the system.

You and I both know that display of behavior comes generally from incarcerated individuals whom are mentally incapacitated, reside in a SHU or PHU. The general inmate population does not make a habit of slinging feces and urine at staff. Feces and urine gets tossed around because basic inmate rights and basic needs are being denied.Further, if you get that tossed on you it is considered the ultimate form of disrespect and is an outward statement of the staff members standing with the inmate population.

I always ask my brother and husband one simple question... "Do you have it comin' to you?" If you do..then you do.. and if you dont.. then you dont !

Your message is short but the message is very clear and I feel for you enormously.
I don't know how I would bare up under the same circumstances.
I hope you son never sees the inside of a prison again once he is out.
5 years is a very long time.
Hugs and sympathy. Wish I could do more.

Gate Keeper I read that portion of the thread, and want to ask you one question.. You have obviously been in the prison system for years and understand how it works..So tell me in your opinion, if two inmates where to have a fist fight on the yard, and no injuries where sustained by either party, what should be the consequences to both individuals? Do you feel that this should go out to court for punishment or should this be handled internally by CDC staff and a disciplinary committee?

History shows us that DA's and Judges do not pick up additional 3 strike felony cases, as they never seem to have enough evidence to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that the incarcerated inmate being charged is guilty.

This is a result of CDC's failure to collect or in some cases fabricate the appropriate evidence to ensure a conviction. Not to mention the fact that everything these days is a DA referal in the eyes of many CDC staff and ISU staff.

CDC has sent so many cases to the DA's Office in the past 5 years that they cant possibly take every single case to trial ! Check the statics for DA referals from State Prisons county to county- the truth lies in the numbers!

I also read the portion of the thread for which you asked us family members if we have ever had feces and urine thrown on us. I am bothered by that statement, as you make it as a "Standard of Behavior" for all that are incarcerated in the system.

You and I both know that display of behavior comes generally from incarcerated individuals whom are mentally incapacitated, reside in a SHU or PHU. The general inmate population does not make a habit of slinging feces and urine at staff. Feces and urine gets tossed around because basic inmate rights and basic needs are being denied.Further, if you get that tossed on you it is considered the ultimate form of disrespect and is an outward statement of the staff members standing with the inmate population.

I always ask my brother and husband one simple question... "Do you have it comin' to you?" If you do..then you do.. and if you dont.. then you dont !
This wasn't directed towards me but I want to comment.

A fist fight between 2 inmates with no serious injuries is a Mutual Combat. Both inmates would be issued 115s. It would NOT be refered to the DA. We don't pick and chose which cases get sent to the DA. There is a policy that we must follow. It is in black and white. If the inmate commits a crime on the list then it is refered.

A LOT of cases get refered due to the sheer number of crimes the inmates commit on a daily basis in a prison setting. So naturally the DA is going to pick the iron clad cases that they know they can win. I don't blame them. It is just disheartening on our side to see an inmate commit a serious crime, maybe against one of us, and the DA doesn't pick it up. But it is just part of our job and we live with it.

The idea that you would suggest that it isn't the inmates fault for assaulting staff is laughable. And just for the record I have been gassed (urine/feces/bodily fluids thrown on me) twice in my career. Both were on a mainline, not SHU, not AD/Seg, not PHU.

...I always ask my brother and husband one simple question... "Do you have it comin' to you?" If you do..then you do.. and if you dont.. then you dont !You have no idea what response I would love to respond to this statement with. :angry:

There is NOTHING any human being could do or say to another that would mitigate or warrant feces and/or urine thrown in a person's face. Your response shows exactly what kind of person you are.

I am always up for a good debate, but your statements have struck such a chord with me that I could not debate your response without me interjecting emotional responses. In other words you have achieved what you set out to do. You pushed a button and pissed me off. :angry:

:eek: WOW!!! :eek: THIS IS INDEED A HOT TOPIC OF DISCUSSION TODAY!!!! MANY ARE GETTING REALLY UPSET AROUND HERE :mad:

My post was not about a sermon, but the Word of God. It's enlightenment that you have the choice to either receive or reject. However, as far as I know, you do not preside over PTO and I have as much right to post my beliefs as you do yours. You may govern the prison cells you oversee, but you do not govern me, nor I you. Freedom of speech is a constitional right and one that I will exercise, as you do. Religion is not the question. Relationship with Jesus Christ and the Word of God is where I stand my ground. You don't reject me, you reject Him. I have insurmountable peace that neither your posts, nor your point of view can shake. Even the footsteps of the wicked are ordered, so I don't question anything that comes my way. I just know that it's in His plan and has it's purpose, whether good or bad. I am blessed.

Please, I beg of you, don't use the word "Amen" unless you truly know the covenant with God that it represents. Your comments in this and other threads indicate that you neither know the Lord, nor walk in His way. Please be respectful of that at least. His mercy endureth forever and I pray that He will have more mercy on your souls than you seem to have for others.

Isaiah 5
21 Woe to those who are wise in their own eyes and prudent and shrewd in their own sight!

Isaiah 10
1 WOE TO those [judges] who issue unrighteous decrees, and to the magistrates who keep causing unjust and oppressive decisions to be recorded,

Matthew 23
13 But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, pretenders (hypocrites)! For you shut the kingdom of heaven in men's faces; for you neither enter yourselves, nor do you allow those who are about to go in to do so.

Psalm 73
8 They scoff, and wickedly utter oppression; they speak loftily [from on high, maliciously and blasphemously].

Psalm 76
9 When God arose to [establish] judgment, to save all the meek and oppressed of the earth. Selah [pause, and calmly think of that]!

Psalm 103
6 The Lord executes righteousness and justice [not for me only, but] for all who are oppressed.

Proverbs 14
31 He who oppresses the poor reproaches, mocks, and insults his Maker, but he who is kind and merciful to the needy honors Him.(1)

Proverbs 22
16 He who oppresses the poor to get gain for himself and he who gives to the rich--both will surely come to want.

Ecclesiastes 5
8 If you see the oppression of the poor and the violent taking away of justice and righteousness in the state or province, do not marvel at the matter. [Be sure that there are those who will attend to it] for a higher [official] than the high is observing, and higher ones are over them.

Isaiah 1
17 Learn to do right! Seek justice, relieve the oppressed, and correct the oppressor. Defend the fatherless, plead for the widow.

Isaiah 11
4 But with righteousness and justice shall He judge the poor and decide with fairness for the meek, the poor, and the downtrodden of the earth; and He shall smite the earth and the oppressor with the rod of His mouth, and with the breath of His lips He shall slay the wicked.

There is plenty more on the subject, but this will give you some spiritual food to chew on for a while (at least I hope and pray you will chew on it). Most of those incarcerated under the Three Strikes Law are from poor and oppressed areas. Most are illiterate and without decent education, job skills or opportunity. Most have drug addictions or mental problems, both of which should be serviced by our government and not our prisons. Drug rehab, mental health programs, job training and most importantly, brotherly love will cause the changes that are needed. If you lock them up and treat them like animals and then wonder why they act like animals, you really need to understand the needs of humans. That is why family contact is important. That is why community programs are important. That is why we are here. To help one another. The greatest commandment is to "Love one another, as I have loved you". Our prison system and those that run it haven't got a clue. They continue to raise themselves above the prisoners, oppress the poor and condone what most would consider "criminal" behavior within the brotherhood of prison guards. I have tried to stay out of this thread for the most part, but to see an "Amen" go up to my Father without fear of His wrath for the covenant being made, required correction. If you are a believer, then I pray that you receive this in love and as correction. If not, then I pray that someday you will know Him, because only then will you understand what you just read.

God bless and lift you to a higher place.You put me on affront with your sermon in the thread. You specifically called me out on the thread an made me subject to your interpretations of "The Word."

Romans 13
"Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God. Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgement on themselves. For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil. Do you want to be unafraid of authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same. For he is God's minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God's minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil. Therefore you must be subject, not only because of the wrath but also for conscience sake. For because of this you only pay taxes, for they are God's ministers attending continually to this very thing. Render therfore to all their due: taxes to whom taxes are due, customs to whom customs, fear to whom fear, honor to whom honor."

Making assumptions about where someone stands spiritually by their posts on a message board will only make you look foolish.

Judge not lest you be judged.

But you are neither a ruler or an authority over me or anyone else on this site, except those who are subject to your authority within the prison walls. And as I said, even the steps of the evil are ordered. The wicked will rise into many places, even places of authority and yes, we are subject to them if under their reign. When on prison grounds and under the laws of the prison, we must surrender to all authority that is there and I for one do. However, to set yourself above me is an error on your part, because God is not a respector of persons. I do not set myself above you, but I certainly will not be subject to you. I am subject only to the leading of the Holy Spirit and the Word of God. Don't use it to set yourself up as a deity. I think you fit the fear to whom fear is due, rather than the honor to whom honor is due, as you so humbly italicized and underlined for yourself. Had you continued on in Romans, you would have run into exactly what I told you before:

Love Fulfills Gods Requirements
8 Pay all your debts, except the debt of love for others. You can never finish paying that! If you love your neighbor, you will fulfill all the requirements of God's law. 9 For the commandments against adultery and murder and stealing and coveting--and any other commandment--are all summed up in this one commandment: "Love your neighbor as yourself."[1] 10 Love does no wrong to anyone, so love satisfies all of God's requirements.
11 Another reason for right living is that you know how late it is; time is running out. Wake up, for the coming of our salvation is nearer now than when we first believed. 12 The night is almost gone; the day of salvation will soon be here. So don't live in darkness. Get rid of your evil deeds. Shed them like dirty clothes. Clothe yourselves with the armor of right living, as those who live in the light. 13 We should be decent and true in everything we do, so that everyone can approve of our behavior. Don't participate in wild parties and getting drunk, or in adultery and immoral living, or in fighting and jealousy. 14 But let the Lord Jesus Christ take control of you, and don't think of ways to indulge your evil desires.

Ephesians 4
16 Under his direction, the whole body is fitted together perfectly. As each part does its own special work, it helps the other parts grow, so that the whole body is healthy and growing and full of love.
Living as Children of Light
17 With the Lord's authority let me say this: Live no longer as the ungodly[1] do, for they are hopelessly confused. 18 Their closed minds are full of darkness; they are far away from the life of God because they have shut their minds and hardened their hearts against him.

God has given us all authority. We are all in places of authority over something, but how we treat those under our authority is how we will be judged. Authority comes with great responsibility. Even those with authority are still subject to His authority and His commandments. Again, loving one another, regardless of your position of authority, is the greatest commandment.

Sorry, but this could go on all day and night because for every scripture you bring up to support your position, there are others that will put you into your place. The Bible is a big book with lots of wonderful teachings in it. The bottomline is love for everyone and that is where I will bring you back to every time.

So, as I stated previously, I tried to stay out of this thread and will bow out again. If anything I've posted planted the seed of love in someone's heart, then praise God. God is good and His mercy endureth forever (and that is for everyone, not just those who think they are the only ones worthy)!

I also know that you will probably post something else that you think will make me look foolish, or to just have the last word, but I guarantee you, you do not bother me in the least. My prayers will be that God will meet you in the midst of your confusion and give light to darkness and sight to your blindness.

God bless and may you surrender to His authority and know the true meaning of the position.

This wasn't directed towards me but I want to comment.

A fist fight between 2