I recently developed a relationship that is the first real relationship I felt loved and felt love for someone else. We've been seeing each other for a little under a month.



Unfortunately, last week, he was arrested right in front of me, which was a pretty traumatic experience. He was arrested for driving without a liscence, so they had to take him in to ID him. But once they did that, apparently he had an outstanding warrant for his arrest. Now I know he's been honest with me about everything about his life. I know that I trust him and that I love him deeply. What he thinks that warrant might be for is something as simple as him not resolving the restitution issue for his charge. I believe this is likely the case and I have determined that the worst case scenario is that he will have to remain in jail for 15 months (if the judge orders the full time to be served). His offense has a maximum sentence of 2 years, and he's already served 9 months.



In any event, that is not the reason I am writing to you. I know that I need to seek legal counsel to deal with those issues. My problem is that I am going to school and I recently started a new job, and I find myself constantly thinking about him, or being reminded of him around my apartment. This usually causes me to cry for a few minutes. In addition, I haven't been eating right or sleeping well. I'm afraid that I've literally worried myself sick. I know I can't keep doing that. I know that I need to get my mind onto other things and realize that I can't do more than go and visit him every chance I get. But I'm wondering, how can I focus my mind onto other things? This is the first time I've been in a situation like this.



I'm also wondering if perhaps you may know of some free or low cost resources that may help me cope with this loss for the time being. I don't want my pain to develop into depression and end up ruining my school and work. So I would appreciate any advice you might give or any folks you could refer me to.



I used to be in the military, and when I was in, I developed depression and even became suicidal. I was suicidal at first, after his arrest, but I think I've come to terms with it now, especially after I saw him a few times before they transported him to another county. I don't know if seeing him is theraputic or if its hurting me. I mean, I want to see him, and I felt better knowing he was ok. But to know that I can't touch him, hug him, or anything like that (because there is just glass and a telephone) is really hard on me. Also, I don't know if the crying is helpful or if I'm just torturing myself. If he wil be in prison for the full 15 months, what is the best way to cope?



Again, I appreciate any advice you can give to me. I look forward to hearing back from you.



Sincerely,

James

Man, I just had the huge response and hit the wrong button and lost it! :-( Sorry. First of all, I would like to WELCOME YOU TO PTO! You have made a wise decision, and that was to post your situation and ask for help. I can't offer you any personal advice, but I read your post and felt compelled to respond. I just had to let you know that there are people out here that care and wish you the best. You will find tons of us here. This is a GREAT site. If you would ever like to chat, feel free to PM me. I do have a degree in clinical psych, but believe it or not, I am a systems accountant by profession. Go figure, eh? LOL Anyway...I would be glad to be the ear to listen if you just want to talk. I wish you the best in this tough time. I realize you are facing many obstacles and wish you the best!

Keep your head up and stay positive. Don't let the depression get the best of you.

Cheryl

Whatever school you're going to should have some form of a counseling department. Try there. It's your best first step. It's usually free if you're a student. Otherwise, open up the yellow pages and look under counseling, most likely. Look for something that says "sliding fee scale" or that it's based on your income. Most college students can always go to counseling for free.

Good luck and welcome!

Hello James and welcome to PTO!!

You have come to the right place to get help and support! I know how hard it is to deal with this situation! I had to deal with depression for a long time as well but now I finally feel a lot better! There are so many wonderful people here that listen and understand!! If you want to talk you can pm any time!

Take care!

Greetings all the way from Switzerland! :D

Anja

James, You have come to the right place, for support, understanding and help with coping with the situation. In addition to checking with your school, the county where you live most likely has a State Mental Health Office their fees are usually based on income so it should be free or low-cost. Visit him when you can, write lots of letters and have him phone when possible and if you need someone to talk to or a shoulder to cry on I'm just a PM away.
Rainbow

James,

I feel for how you are feeling - really I do. I myself do not have to deal with the glass on the visits but I know that would make it even harder.

You really have to go with your feelings and not necessarily fight them but at the same time realize that focusing on them is not going to allow you to grow... I am sure that your partner does not want you to mess up your school - I am sure that he would want you to have success in your education.

This is not an easy time for you or anyone in this situation and most people that you talk to will just not understand the stress associated with what we face daily.

I think that first and foremost, you are at the right place. I am not saying that we are any different, but being gay does present its own challenges when dealing with the correctional system.

Hang around PTO. You will find that our members are very accepting and helpful. Ask your questions and read through areas of the site that are of interest to you or that are concerns for you.

One of the greatest things about PTO is that there is always someone online that you don't have to feel isolated in your situation.

You also have the option to private message any of us if you need to have a more private discussion - if you don't feel like exposing everything on the site.

There are several of us on the site that are gay and have loved ones behind bars or have been behind bars.... if you feel the need - PM one of us. Don't be shy and don't be a stranger!

Thanks for the advice. For me, the toughest times of day is right in the morning and when I get ready for bed at night. I guess it's because when we were together, that's when we would lie with each other and hold each other. I miss having him fall asleep in my arms or waking up to his face. Its kind of funny, because he is like 6'2" and I'm 5'6", but he'd curl up and put his head on my chest; it was really cute.

Anyway, I hope it does get easier as I go. I don't think he'll get more than 15 months. They was I figured it, his offense has a max sentence of two years, and since he's already served about 9 months, that leaves 15 months at the worst. I don't know anything about the criminal court system, so I don't know if I'm figuring it correctly.

Well, sometimes I wake up in the morning, and I just wish I could fall asleep for the next however many months. I just want to wake up and he would be free. I know that's not rational, and I know that's dangerous, but its how I feel.

When I do finally get some free time, I will look into asking my school if they have any counseling resources or if there may be any other options.

But thank you everyone for the feedback, I really appreciate it. I know that some of you on here have a lot longer to wait than I do, so I feel kind of bad for griping about 15 months. It's just so odd a situation because I just met him, and I know that he's the one, so I'm going to stick by him.

But doubts keep entering my head, and I don't know if that's natural or not in this situation. I keep thinking, what if he doesn't want to be together when he gets out? What if we break up shortly after he gets out? And it worries me to think that, because more cynical people usually say to me after I mention things like that, "Well, maybe you really don't love him?" And that really hurts me. I find myself doubting my love for him. But I know in my heart that I must love him, because of how hard I took the situation and hwo much I am willing to sacrifice myself so that he won't be alone. Then I think, well, am I only putting myself through this because I pity him? Or is it really love?

The second day I visited him, I told him, "It would be so easy for me to just abandon you, to just walk away. But I can't do that. I love you too much to do that to you." I mean, I've only known him for less than a month, I could easily walk away and find someone new. But in my heart I know that is wrong.

It just feels like I'm torturing myself in a way. And I don't like that. I want to be happy, and I'm willing to wait 15 months if I have to in order to have him back, but I can say I'll wait for him, but how do I do it? I know I should take it one day at a time, but every new day feels like another struggle to survive.

I don't know if any of this is making sense, but I thank you folks again for the support and advice. If any of you folks have AOL Instant Messenger or Yahoo IM, please add me and we can chat on there too.




Another question for you folks, I'm worried about what I write to him, because if certain inmates find out he's gay, could that put him in danger? Thankfully we have a code word for "I love you", but there is still so much else I want to tell him, and I'm afraid to because I don't want to endanger him. Anyway, I better get ready for school. Thanks again everyone!

James

Hi James.

Welcome to the PTO family :)

Sorry if I'm late welcoming you, blame it on time difference between France and the US.

I'm really sorry for your situation, as well as for your loved one's. I guess it must be awful to deal with this after only one month being together. So I can understand you're asking all those questions to both yourself and us.

I think the most important, is that you first try to find some kind of peace in your heart and mind. I know, easier said than done. but you must try, for your own's sake as well as for your partner's.

You must think that even if you're suffering, he's too. First he has to deal with prison, which as you know is an awful environment. Then he has to deal with your relationship and his own insecurities about it. "Will you stay or leave ?" Be sure that many many questions are crossing his mind everyday. If you love him, and I don't doubt you do, you have to be strong for you both. You have to show him you're supportive and standing 100% on his side. You must not make him feel more guilty than he already is, and add more stress on his shoulders. Write him, visit him, and show him that together you will fight this battle until better days come up.

You have come to the right place for support as well as for valuable informations. As Teb told you, since we're from all over the world, there's always a shoulder to lean on 24/7. :)

I don't think it's a real problem that you write him love letters, but maybe he should get rid of them after he read them, so that another inmate can't get a hold of them.

Whether he's state or federal, you might want to visit our Texas forum or our Federal forum, where you will get all the informations you need about the prison system.

Stay strong and keep your head up, and know that we're here for you no matter what.

All my best wishes.
Phil

James,

You are 1 in a million to stay with him after knowing him for so short of a time, but you have to do what feels right for you. I will tell you that it will not be easy - you will have good days and bad days and so will he. If your relationship can withstand the prison system then you will grow and be stronger because of it. It will be tough going...

Your boyfriend will have to do what he has to do with your letters... don't not say or write to him in fear of someone finding out - someone will figure it out anyway just from your visits. Don't live in fear. I don't have experience with the TX system and I know it is a harder system when it comes to being gay, but you have to live and love... let your boyfriend set the stage for how things should go. Ask and have him tell you. Follow his lead.

We are here anytime you have the need to talk! Between Phil and myself you are covered most hours of the day and night!

Seems like every day is a roller coaster. I woke up this morning crying and I couldn't get back to sleep. But this afternoon, I was talking to two folks (one my online buddy from TN, the other one of my BFs friend's in Waco), and they did have some valid points.

Since his crime wasn't a violent one, and since the jails are pretty packed full anyway, and since he's already served about 9 months, chances are he would likely be released on a supervised release type of program.

Now my concern is, I'm down in San Antonio, he's up in Waco. He recently moved in with me. How can I be sure he will be released to me here in San Antonio? And is this a likely scenario anyway, that he would likely be released? It really made me feel a lot better to think about it. I certainly hope he is free sooner. I'm still preparing for the worst, but hoping for the best. I'm also going to try to make it to his hearing if possible. I can't visit him on a regular basis, but at least I can write him. I'm just waiting for him to get back to me.

Now when folks are in jail, do they get mail on a regular basis, or is it only once a week? Because I've been writing short letters almost every day, but I'm wondering if it'd be just as good (and more cost effective) if I just write him one long letter a week.

Anyway, thanks again for the support everyone, I really REALLY appreciate it. I was worried that I'd have no one to really turn to, and it turns out that I was wrong. I just hope that I'm wrong about two more things:

1. That he won't have to serve the full 15 months

and

2. We made a promise a week before my B Day (around August 17th) that we would wake up to one another in 30 years. I don't think its possible to maintain a gay relationship that long, but I still will do everything to keep that promise. I may be a politician (I'm going to school for Poli Sci), but I intend to keep at least that promise. So I hope I'm wrong and that we do stay together 30 years (and after this, the next 29 years and 11 months should be cake!)

Well, I'm gonna go, but still, I really appreciate the support.

James

Sounds to me like you guys were brought together at a difficult, but very important moment...I happen to not be gay, but I do know some gay relationships are for a lifetime, why not if you are right for each other? I'm sure the social pressure makes it harder.
One thing I am just starting to figure out...Do your best to be as happy about the rest of your life as you can, NO MATTER HOW MUCH the missing him hurts. Then when you visit you will have good things to share and positive energy to carry to him.
Love from near New Paltz, NY- c'mon out here and get married once he gets out!

30 is possible...we just did 19! But it's my son in prison. My partner and I have the 19 years!

I think you have to just literally take one day at a time and maybe one hour at a time. You're going thru a whole bunch right now and have a lot of questions that will probably have answers in time.

None of having a loved one in a prison is easy. It has good days and bad. They are hard.

Wish you luck.
Cindi

James,

He should get mail daily... but then I am not involved directly in the TX system.

I would suggest that for your questions that are not 'relationship' based that you migrate to the TX forum to ask and get support on the more fact based issues - like his sentence - the mail - visiting - release/parole -etc. Go to the source and we have a lot of experts in the TX system floating around the TX forum.

Bring your relationship questions and anything gay related to this forum certainly but you will get the expert prison system advice in the TX forum.

Certainly gay relationships can last more than 30 years. You just never see the ones that do because they are not in the social circles that are in the bars and the gay town restaruants. They have their own circles that they travel in and they are not part of the mainstream - for the most part. Don't base your expectations on a relationship on what you see around you if you are active in the gay community - IMO the 'active' gay community actually prohibits healthy long term gay relationships. Just my opinion. I am sure that there are many that will counter that opinion.

Keep your dreams close to you and don't settle for less than you expect!

Keep strong James! You will make it through this! This guy is lucky to have you and you will make all the difference to him!

Hey, James,

Just wanted to welcome you and let you know that even though I'm female and straight, your problems are not much different than ours. A relationship only a month old is delicate, and you play it by ear and see how it goes- a whole lot easier on the outside, but really the same principle with one partner in jail. You just keep on with the letters, calls and visits, and see if you both are strengthened by it. Remember, a lot of people on this site actually met their loved one behind bars, and many of them feel that in a way it's an advantage to take a relationship slow and get to know each other in ways you couldn't or wouldn't on the outside (going at it like bunnies all the time;) !) So, just take it day by day. As far as your sadness, there is such a thing as situational depression, which is normal and natural when we suffer a trauma (like losing our honeys to the system), but if it keeps on, you definitely want to seek help, especially since you have a history. And my advice on the letters- even though I agree you shouldn't have to hide, I understand that your concern is for your sweetie's well-being, so maybe you could just sign your letters "J" until you know it's O.K.? Good luck on his early release and everything else!

Thanks for the support everyone. I decided I'm going to start writing him one big letter once a week, since stamps are kind of pricey if I write one every day. In this next letter I'm writing, I even asked if he wants to consider a commitment ceremony when he gets out. I don't know if that is too much or not. I mean, I know I love him, and I know he loves me. And I know that after all this, we're going to be together a really long time, so it's inevitable that we do some kind of ceremony.

I keep trying to get my TX specific questions answered on the TX board, and it's taking awhile for anyone to get back to me with some definitive answers. I'm thinking that he really won't have to do more time, that seems to be the consensus out of all the people I ask. He'll likely get a longer probation time, but otherwise, he should be able to come home soon. I plan on driving up there for his hearing, just in case I hear some good news for once. I think I will!

It's so frustrating not having him here. I do worry that when he gets back, I'll move too fast trying to play catch up, and end up pushing him away, which I DEFINTELY don't want to do. I wonder if he's worried about the same thing. But I still have to believe, Amor Vincit Omnia, that "love conquers all". Does anyone have any advice how to avoid some negativity that could happen when he gets back? Like I was saying before, how should I approach the situation when he's out? And even if I do what you suggest, what if he moves too fast, should I tell him to move a little slower so we ease back into things. Or is it ok if we both jump right back in. It is my hope that he won't be gone too much longer and that he can come back by the end of this month. If thats the case, its not like he's been gone for very long. But seriously, does anyone have any advice how to approach the situation when he's back, so that things stay good? And is there any advice I should pass on to him?

Thanks again everyone for the support, I really appreciate it a lot. I hope you all have a good holiday!

Here's my new concern. I realize that I have to be prepared for him to have to serve some more jail time. If I'm reading the law books right, it can be anywhere from 6 months to the full 2 years. Now I know when its all over, I'll still be here for him and he'll still be there for me. But how do I get through the inbetween time?

Some suggest take it a day at a time. It just feels like doing it that way makes every new day a struggle.

Some suggest think happy thought, and when I do, I get sad because we can't do those things now, but I know we can when its over.

I'm not sure what else to do. This is starting to effect my school and work. I need to learn how to deal with the separation so that I can move on with my life and move closer to the day we'll be together again.

What can I do?

Oh just hang out with us. Play in the arcade. Tell us about your visits. Say hi to the new folks as they come along. Write him sexy letters. Get philosophical about it all. We're here to tell ya, if you're doing it for the right person it's not half bad.

So I came across the 5 stages of grief, and I'm wondering, how much stock do you folks put into this? Have you noticed that it's true? How have you moved through the stages? Here's what I found online, I suppose it would apply to any inmate and even their loved ones:

The emotional stages of an incarcerated man

*** Please keep these stages of emotion in mind when writing to an
inmate, as like you, they are people too and also human.
Everything in their life affect them, including being incarcerated.
These are stages of emotions each inmate goes thru while serving
their sentence. Try to be sensitive to each of these feelings and
not take offense, if the inmate you are writing to, seems to are having
a bad day, it is probably related to these stages of emotion, related
to their sentence and not really be meant to directed toward you...***

Emotional stages of Incarceration

Prisoners, much like people who learn, they are going to die soon,
go through 5 emotional stages: denial, anger, bargaining,
depression and finally, acceptance. Where they are in, this process
can help explain their behavior.

Stage I Denial :confused:

Denial begins, when a person enters prison. It generally lasts between
1 and 3 years for those, sentenced to more than 10 years.
Some short-termers are in a state of denial for their entire sentence.

Those in the denial stage find it hard to believe, they are really in
prison. They tend to blame their situation on somebody else. Some
prisoners work thru denial gradually, others leave this stage abruptly,
when faced with a crisis.

Stage II Anger :angry:
When they can no longer deny the situation, prisoners often become
angry with anyone. Some prisoners join prison gangs during the anger
stage. Some learn to play a game, called: "being sneaky”, in which
they gain slight control over their lives by pretending to do what the
guards want.

Stage III Bargaining :idea:
Since no one answered their demands; prisoners may resort to asking nicely for what they want. Prisoners attempt to make deals with other people. They promise they will mend their ways inexchange for the favor they seek.

Stage IV Depression :(
When it becomes clear, that neither anger nor bargaining is working,
depression descends. One prisoner reports: "when it hits me, that
I was really in prison and I was going to be there for a long time,
I was pretty depressed. I wanted to sleep all the time;
I wanted to escape my pain.”

At this stage, prisoners begin to face the consequences of their past
actions and the current situation. They grieve the loss of freedom and
pain of separation from loved ones. Incarcerated mothers are
devastated, when they realize, they won’t be with their children for
many years. Depressed prisoners typically withdraw from family and friends.

Stage V Acceptance :thumbsup:

Ultimately prisoners accept the fact that they are in prison for the
long haul. That makes some prisoners emotionally numb to everything and
everyone. Others go through a period of genuine soul-searching.
They begin to accept responsibility for their situation.
Many show a sincere desire to change their lives.
Painful problems, like a family crisis or a move to a new facility, can
trigger a return to earlier feelings. Prisoners must then work through
the emotional stages of incarceration again, so they don’t remain
in denial, anger or depression.<><><><><>

And in another matter, one friend suggested that maybe he wants space. I'm not sure how I'll know short of asking him or him telling me. I mean, I want to be there for him and support him, and to me it wouldnt feel right if I wasnt there for him. But if he asks me to give him a little space, I would, if only so he can work through his pain and guilt easier. But what do you folks think?

James - what I have to say very strongly is that you have to find a way to keep yourself vital and active in your life outside of your boyfriends incarceration. You just have to. You cannot let your life slip into despair and depression because he is locked up. Easy to say - tough to do. You will have to practice some tough love on yourself - you will have to kick yourself into gear some days and just make yourself carry on. YOU have a life and you have goals to accomplish - you cannot give up on these goals - your education mainly! You MUST push forward.

Yes - we do the time with them - but you can not afford to lose your life and your future for his mistakes. He will pay for his mistakes and you will in your own way - but do NOT let yourself and what you have wanted to work for fall apart for his mistakes.

Every Prisoner is more than their crime. Your boyfriend is very much more than his crime - you fell in love with him for who he is - whatever he did to get locked up is secondary to that.

Yes - you have to recognize that he will go through emotional stages during his incarceration but don't over do the research on this - he may sail through his time. He will be in great shape if you are there to support him through it. Write him and tell him of everything in your life - what you do each day - he needs to keep this connection to the outside world.

Don't worry now about what will happen when he comes home - deal with today and him being locked up - the rest will take care of itself.

You have the opportunity now to really get to know this man without any outside influence coming in the way - you have the opportunity to write and really communicate with this man in a way you never would have if this had not happened. I am so greatful for getting to know my Partner while locked up because through our letters and short visiting time together we have learned to communicate and have developed a level of intimacy in our communication that I have never reached before with anyone else I have dated.

You ask - maybe he wants space...?

If you are afraid of this then ask him. The best thing you can do for yourself and for him right now is be open and honest - don't hide behind anything - just be open and honest. Be his best friend.

James

I have to fully agree with haswtch and Teb.

Also when you say:

Some suggest think happy thought, and when I do, I get sad because we can't do those things now

You can not DO those things, but you can SHARE with him. I always have a camera with me, and I take lots and lots of pics of happy things I'm doing, or even unusual things that i'm seeing. This way, he kinda participates and keep on being connected with the life outside the walls. Send him lots of pics, he will love them.

It can be anything !!! For instance, you want to go buy new clothes, and you see 2 t-shirts you like but can't afford both. Take pics of both t-shirts, and ask him which one he likes better. Or it's soon gonna be fall, the tree leaves are gonna turn yellow, take pics of your neighborhood etc etc .... I take pics of almost everything, just to make him connected with the outside world !!

Phil

I just got finished talking to one of the several people I've been going to for support and he said something that made me worried. He suggested, what if he comes out different? He told me he had a female friend who's boyfriend came out being abusive. I would hate for that to happen in my situation, and I don't know if it would or not. In the short time I've known my BF, he has never shown himself to be abusive, but I know that people do change in jail.

What do you folks think? Is this something I should be concerned about?

I have yet to even get one letter from him yet. I've written him 6 so far. Now I know he was moved to Waco last Wednesday, and I know Monday was a holiday. The soonest he could have gotten a letter out was Wednesday. I heard that some mail is taking a week to get out. I'm hoping that I have a letter by this weekend... But if I don't, should I start worrying that something is wrong?

What do you folks think I should do?

Does he have money for stamps? What about paper and envelopes? Does he have these supplies? He will have to buy the pens, paper, envelopes, and stamps. If he does not have money then you will have to send it to him, the prison will not supply these things - he will have to wait for his store date too. Plus, TX mail is slow.....

Don't worry about how he is going to change on release - worry about getting through the next few weeks to months. You are looking for things to worry about that is wasting your energy - no one can predict how he will change - you may be a different person by the time he comes home - life changes people, not prison!

Keep strong James!

This is a shot in the dark, but I don't think prison creates abusers. I think the seeds are sown before that. He may well come out a bit more bitter than he came in, but abusive- if it wasn't there to begin with- I think not.

Here is an e-mail exchange that I had with one of my online contacts this morning, can you guys tell me what you think?

James,Well, the gay lifestyle can be like 'living in hell' if you're not controlling of it and let it control your life. Ok now you got me wondering what in the heck has happened whereby someone you know gets arrested and may see 6 months to 2 years in jail! That means you're going overboard to date someone who is a criminal, or acting like one. Not good sense if I might advise you.If I can give you one piece of advice (whether you take it, or accept it) remember these two things:1) Take 100% of whatever a gay man tells you, devide it by 1/2 and you get 50% of the truth (if even that). If you follow this rule you'll be okay, if not then you're heading for a troubled life.2) The gay lifestyle is 'nomadic'. For the average, gay men only stay with one another maybe 6-8 months at the most. Don't go heads over heels for anyone, keep in your foremost thought that this relationship is only temporary, this way if you do break up the impact isn't as emotionally divestating. About the guy you met. You're in deep trouble if your going to try to continue the relationship. Walk away while you're able to, dont look back or your life is going to be screwed. Its hard taking such advice from a stranger, but ive been there, done-it already, and I have friends which have gone the same course. The above information is true and works best for gay men who 1) have a good head on their shoulders 2) can think beyond their dick.Sure, being gay and single isn't the best situation, but its a fact of life for being gay. If you face the facts that you need to pursue 1) a career 2) a lifestyle which you can control and not have it control you - then you on the right course. Dating gay men who are 1) into the club scene 2) gay scene 3) drug scene or other can only give you grief in life.>From just our dialogue on the telephone, I think your well suited to get into the governmental affairs side of the house. Its whether you're willing to take the career challenge versus letting your lifestyle get the best of you. Once you've figured out what you really want in life, and decide either to pursue a career and a lifestyle you can control, then let me know - you may be well groomed to be in this sector, but until you take on that decision, its not for me to pursue things further with you. Keep me apprised what your decision is. :) Craig

[NOTE: This guy was talking with me in the past month about hiring me to be a lobbyist partner. I probably shouldn't have even brought up my situation to him, but its too late now...]

MY RESPONSE:

I understand what you've said, and I'll accept your
advice regarding this guy, but I can't turn my back on
him. It's tough to explain, but this is honestly the
first guy to make me feel the way I do. I'm not sure
if you can understand that or not. I trust him and
believe he is telling the truth to me. I have never
seen a reason to believe he has lied to me. I will
stand by him, and wait for him to straighten out his
life so we can move on together. That's about all I'll
say on that matter.

On the other matter, certainly, I am still interested
in working with you. Like I've said all along, this is
my dream job. I think it might even be a little
theraputic right now to do something I would enjoy.
Take that for what it's worth.

Let me know what you think or any other questions you
might have. Have a good week.

James

HIS RESPONSE:

Well James, sometimes you have to turn your back, walk away and know
you did the right thing. The lifestyle just isn't worth the grief. You
at your age will run into dozen of guys you think you just can't live
without, when in fact you can. After a few screwed up relationships,
you will find out that the gay lifestyle isnt what its cracked out to be.
Its hard to give you advice when you haven't experienced it yet.

Hanging, or being involved with someone with a criminal background, who
will have to serve time in jail, probably be gang raped in jail/prison
due to his age, then comes out and must serve probation, pay probation
and/or parole fees/fines means total dissray, financial problems down
the road and something you'd better seriously get wise to and quick.

You waiting years for him to straighten out his life - well that tells
me the maturity level just isnt there with you for now. To wait for
someone to serve out their time and not move on says that your just not
ready yourself. I sound harsh but I'm very realistic in my beliefs and
thoughts - yeah ive been somewhat in your shoes, but I was smart enough
to walk away, otherwise end up in total dispair and grief.

I think as you get older, you find that gay relationships just don't
last. You either get harden by the experiences of being in bad
relationships and just go on, or you elect that you will compromise. One can
compromise by getting into a 1) mutual relationship that benefits both
individuals (meaning situation whereby financial compromise comes in to
play versus having to date someone and go through the relationsship
scene), or 2) you can find a 'buddy arrangement'. I think from the
experience I've gone through that these days #1 is the best answer for me but
then again who knows. Thought it would be nice to share a life with
someone, buy a house, make his career go forward etc - but finding a gay
man who wants such and will actually go forward doing so is VERY RARE.

Since I dont know you, but feel I do in a way - my advice again to you
is this: 1) walk away, tell him that your not ready for a
situation/relationship which will involve him to be away in jail, take on
probation/parole and endure those costs/fees associated with them, plus not be
able to find a job due to him having a criminal record 2) set your
mind to figure out whether your going to let your lifestyle control your
career and future? some guys think with their dicks, they think
they're in love because the sex is great, when the fact is that its a
temporary thing which generally will go away.

Sometime you'd like to get away from San Antonio, come up to Austin for
a weekend or few days let me know. Im going to take some vacation time
starting next week. Im thinking about going to NYC for a few days -
you should go:) Any how I feel for you - your young, you havent dated
or been in many relationships thus you havent really found out how the
gay lifestyle/culture can really impact you. Again, take my advice -
walk away, as hard as it is youll realize you made the right decision
down the road. Craig

MY RESPONSE:

And regarding what you said here:

"Once you've figured out what you really want in life,
and decide either to pursue a career and a lifestyle
you can control, then let me know - you may be well
groomed to be in this sector, but until you take on
that decision, its not for me to pursue things further
with you. Keep me apprised what your decision is."

I don't know how long he's going to be gone. But in
the mean time, I am going to move on with my life. I
wish you knew what I was going through right now, and
could see how we feel about each other. It was
probably a mistake to even bring this up to you,
because now it seems like you're going to consider me
irresponsible.

I know it would be so easy for me to abandon him, but
I can't do that. I've thought about it, but I realize
that it would be harder on me to abandon him rather
than stick it out with him.

But there is no reason why this should effect my
professionalism. Certainly, I am going through a tough
time right now, this was a pretty traumatic
experience, especially since he was arrested right in
front of me.

It sounds like you won't consider any career options
with me until I leave him, and that's unfair, in my
view. I mean, this is my dream job, and I know that
opportunities like this are few and far between. But
likewise, the way I feel about this guy is a
completely new experience to me, and I can't abandon
that either. I know where I want to go in my life, my
goals are still the same and I still have the same
drive and ambition, but I can't choose between my
future and the guy that I love and care deeply for
because they are intertwined. I can't explain my
situation any better than this: I've been in many
relationships in my short life, and none of them has
ever felt the way that this one does. I hope you can
understand that.

I hear your advice, and I've taken it into
consideration. But the fact of the matter is, I am not
the type of person to believe that the Justice system
is right 100% of the time, likewise, even if the
justice system is right, I cannot believe that
criminals will always be criminal, isn't that the
purpose of the Justice system? To correct criminals?
If I had any indication that this man was anything
less than he presented, then I agree, I would leave
him in a heartbeat. All it takes is one lie for me to
turn my back on someone, and thus far, he has never
lied to me, and until he does, I trust him. You do
understand that just because someone was convicted of
a crime does not make them a criminal? The justice
system is often wrong, and in this case, I believe
they were.

Please don't put me in the situation where I have to
choose between my dream job and the man I love. I know
that many gay relationships are short, many of mine
have been that way. This one, however, has been vastly
different than any relationship I've had so far. I'll
be honest, we made a promise to each other that we
would stay together more than 30 years. I make very
few promises in my life, and I never make a promise I
do not intend to keep. I may be a politician in
training, but that is one promise I feel morally
obligated to keep.

I don't know if you've ever been in love, and if you
have, if you can understand where I'm coming from. To
me, time frame doesn't matter. If I dated this guy one
month, one year, or 20 years; if I love him, which I
know I do, I will stand by his side as he goes through
his difficult time while he corrects his situation on
his own. I will not help him with his issues beyond
offering emotional support. It is up to him to serve
his time and pay his fines. But in the meantime I will
do what I can to support him emotionally. Even if one
day in the future I decide to move on (which I highly
doubt), I will still keep in contact with him because
he has no one else to rely on, or to talk to.

I'm going to close this up for now. I hope this gives
you some insight into how I feel. I hope you can
understand where I am at, and I hope you can at least
be empathetic for my situation. I'm not asking you to
pity me, or to agree with me, but at least understand
how I feel about him and why I can't abandon him.

James

<><><><><>

So my question to you guys is this: it would be so easy for me to lie to this potential employer and say that I've turned my back on him and moved on. He might be too smart to see through it. Should I lie to him? Should I just leave it and stick to my guns saying that I can't choose between working with him and abandoning my BF? Is some of what this guy says true? What do you guys think I should do?

I know in my heart that I want to stay by my BFs side, for however long it takes, but I wonder if this guy has a point, and that worries me.

But thanks for any advice you can give...

James

James

I really think you shouldn't mix your professional and private life. You shouldn't have told this guy about your loved one. Anyway, what is done is done, so now you have to deal with it. Giving you a job if you give up on your b/f is blackmail, and I wouldn't work with someone who's blackmailing me.

I think this guy is rather bitter, and I don't know how he can generalize so easily about the gay life. The gay community is like the straight one, all kinds of people, all kinds of couples. My very best friends have been together for 15 years, and are still very much in love.

In my opinion, you should stop asking people's advice about your relation, and follow your heart.

Good luck.
Phil

I agree that he is blackmailing me, so I'm not going to put up with it. And I wasn't even asking him for advice, I just let him know what was going on in my life. He volunteered the advice. Or do you mean I shouldn't ask advice on here?

Yes I will follow my heart, and if it turns out that I get hurt for it, oh well, I've been hurt before, so I think I can handle it. But I think its going to be more likely that we will come out stronger. He does bring up good points about our financial future together, but I think he makes it sound much worse than it really is. Its not like he'll never have a good job once he gets out, and its not like he'll be paying fines for the rest of his life. I know it will be rough even the first few months he gets out of jail, but I'm sure we can handle it together.

I told this guy once that I will not compromise on my principles, he knows that, and yet he persists that I walk away now from my love. I tried my best to explain to him how I can't do that, and if he can't accept that, then I don't want to work for him. It may be my dream job, but there will be other opportunities in the future, you may only get one shot at true love, however, and I believe with all my heart that my love for my Kasey is true love.

And I wasn't even asking him for advice, I just let him know what was going on in my life. He volunteered the advice. Or do you mean I shouldn't ask advice on here?

Nope, I didn't mean you could not ask advice on here. :) We're here for you no matter what, even though I truly believe you're THE ONE who knows what's in your heart. So we can not tell you "stay with him" or "dump him". But, we will do our best to help you go through the loneliness and the frustration of having a loved one incarcerated. :)

Phil

Ok, now I have new problems...

It's going to pain me to say this, but I've done stuff with other guys twice now. I've tried my best to avoid it, but once I get going, I can't stop myself.

Now some would suggest, maybe you don't love him if you can't be faithful. I know I'll eventually have to be honest with him and let him know that twice I messed up. The worst thing he could ask me is "How can you say you love me if you went and did something like that?"

I've never been in this situation before. I know I love him, but why did I do this twice? He hasn't even been gone that long. And granted, I haven't know him very long to make a strong bond, but still, I said I love him a lot, and yet I betray him like this. I've tried to rationalize my behavior, but I know I can't. What I did was stupid and just plain wrong.

I may have already F'd up what maybe was my one shot at a loving relationship. I know I'll eventually have to tell him the truth, and I dread that day. I'm afraid that he won't forgive me for it, and I wouldn't blame him for that reaction. I need to know how to stop doing this, how do I cope with him being gone and my being lonely? Or should I just break things off for now with him, you know, still write him letters and still be a friend, but know that I probably blew my one shot at a good love?

Has anyone on here been in a similar situation? How did your partner in jail react if so? I feel totally bad for betraying my BF like this, and I don't want to hurt him, but then I think, if I didn't want to hurt him, why did I do this...

Thanks for any advice.

My partner and I wanted to be real, and we talked about our relationship from the very beginning, and both agreed that it will be impossible for us both to be physically faithful to each other while he's incarcerated. So he has sex in prison, I have sex on my side, and nevertheless we love each other.

The most important is to talk things over with your partner.

Should I talk to him about what I did and what we should do now while he is still in? Or should I wait till he is out? I don't want to put a lot of stress on him while he is going through his hard time. He has things much worse than I do. I myself am pretty understanding of circumstances. I mean, if he were here, of course, he would be the only guy I'd be with. If the tables were turned, I'd expect that he might fool around, so long as I was still the one he loved and that he wouldn't abandon me.

But I'm not sure exactly how he feels about this. I know I love him, and I know he loves me, but I worry that this may be one of those things he can't forgive. Everyone has somethings that they are unable to forgive. For me its lying and being used. So I would be a hypocrite if I didn't tell him the truth, and I intend to, but I'm not sure when the best time to bring it up is...

James,

I cannot offer you an answer as to whether to tell him or not - that will depend on him, you, and your relationship.

Phil and I are opposite in situation - Phil and his b/f have come to an agreement on their relationship and so have my b/f and I. We decided to be faithful and so in the last three years I have not been unfaithful to my partner.

This is something that all of us face and all of us have to make our own decision on. You have to do what is right for you and your b/f and just because I do one thing or Phil the other does not make it right for you.

I would suggest that if you are considering continuing your outside relationships that you discuss it with him. If you are going to commit to him then leave it be - he does not need the stress of knowing.

I've been thinking about it all day at school what I did. I have thought of writing him a letter about it, basically telling him that I f'd up, and if he couldnt' forgive me, I'd understand. I think I will write a letter just to kind of put my thoughts and emotions down on paper, but I may not send it to him. But I know that one day I will have to be honest with him. He may flat out ask me. He may not ever ask me.

If he doesn't ask me, is it write NOT to tell him voluntarily? I mean, the last thing I ever want to do is lie to him, but I don't want to hurt him either, even though I probably already did by pulling this junk... I don't know why I did it, I knew I'd feel like this afterwards, but I didn't stop myself. Its like I enjoy torturing my emotions. I want only my BF in my life, and I wish with all my heart that he was here with me right now. Maybe I don't really love him or care about him, because I did betray him? Or is there more to love than faithfulness?

Granted, we haven't discussed whether I should be faithful while he is in or not. I could try to broach the subject by saying something like, "It's hard to be alone, I've thought a lot about other guys, I don't know why I do, when I know I love you, but I can't control my thoughts. This is really hard for me."

I could say something like that, but I still think that would be a little dishonest, because I've already done it, I just can't bring myself to directly hurt him by telling him right now. I think I will tell him when he's out and when we're driving back home from the jail. Or is that a bad time too?

I feel like the worst case scenario is that he won't forgive me and that he'll not want to be with me anymore.

If the situation was reversed, I wouldn't react like that, but then again, he's not me and vice versa. I would understand that it's tough to be alone and that human nature has certain desires. I would forgive him for fooling around, so long as he promised not to do it again now that we were back together. That would be my approach. Maybe he is the same way, or maybe he's not. I don't know how to bring up the subject with him, while he's still in jail, to where we can work this out and move on.

What you have to remember is that he is in a powerless situation right now - he has no way to fight back or to compete (although that is not what I mean really). He has no way to deal with this other than to sit and think about it and if it bothers him considerably enough you may lose your relationship with him over this - I don't know - I don't know him and how he would react.

I would never suggest that you do or you don't tell him but rather give you things to think about so that you see the implications of either decision....

I know my partner - if I told him that I was unfaithful to him that would be a huge blow to his trust in me - huge. I honestly believe that he would end it immediately on finding out. I am not sure if I would or would not tell him. I think that if I were unfaithful and it was a one only time I would not tell him - I would not at least until he was out of prison. He would not react well in prison...

You are in a tough situation. You will have to deal with your own emotions and your own obvious guilt.

My advice is to you... if you are prepared to be faithful and support him now through to his release then just hide the recent events and move forward. If however you decide that you need to carry on with other people but still want a relationship with this man in prison then you MUST tell him. Don't continue to be unfaithful and not tell him. What he needs most while he is in is people - family, friends, and you - that he can count on and trust. This will be his best defense to staying sane.

I wrote this little excerpt to him today, but I don't think I'm going to send it now. My heart is telling me to be honest, but my brain is saying now is not the right time, but anyway, here's what I wrote today:

I miss you so much; I can’t stand being apart from you. This is really tough on me, and I’m sure it’s a lot tougher on you. I want to believe that I love you, but why do my eyes wander? I want to stay faithful to you, but it’s going to be so hard on me. This is the most difficult thing I’ve ever done. I want you to know that I’ll always love you and I’ll stay by your side no matter what. I want to know how you feel about this situation. I’m not asking you to let me go, I’m not asking you to let me date while you’re in jail, I’m not asking you to do anything except tell me how you feel about this.

If the situation was reversed, I would be totally cool with you dating around, so long as I knew that I was the only one you loved and that once I was free, I’d be the only one in your life. But I have a feeling that you might not feel the same way. I mean, my biggest fear is you’d say something like “How can you say you love me when you want to fool around on me.” To be honest, I don’t know the answer to that. Some people are telling me that maybe I don’t love you because I am having these thoughts. I don’t agree, I know I love you.

Other people suggest that maybe because we haven’t had much time to build up a bond together, that I am thinking these thoughts. My number one priority is I don’t want to hurt you, especially while you are in jail. The one thing I will never do is abandon you when you need me. I refuse to walk away. But I keep thinking about other guys, maybe that’s natural, I don’t know, I’ve never been in this situation. I know for a fact I’d never start another relationship. My heart belongs to you and yours to me; I couldn’t dump you and try to start dating someone else. It’s just really hard to deal with the lack of physical interaction. I just want so badly for someone to hug and kiss me. No one could ever replace you though. The way you made me feel is too much to ever forget.

I don’t want to betray you, how do I keep myself from doing it? Tell me what you think, because like I said, I don’t want to hurt you, and I’m not going to turn my back on you. I’m sorry I asked these questions, and I imagine it might hurt for me to ask them, it hurt me asking them. It hurts me to have my feelings wander when I should only be thinking of you. Remember, I’m NOT dumping you, so please don’t think that. And I don’t want to do anything that will hurt you. Please forgive me for asking this and for hurting you if I did. I want you to make it through this so that we can build our future together.

That's what I wrote in my journal today, I don't think I should send it though. I don't think it would be right to put those kinds of questions on him right now. But after hearing from you and Phil, I've decided that I need to do my best to keep my mind and thoughts on him, and to realize that he loves me, and he misses me too, and that I AM hurting him by messing around, even if he doesn't know it, even if he NEVER knows it. The worst thing is that I know it, and I feel like crap for it. I just need to figure out a way to focus on him and only him, all while moving forward in my own life. I wish I was unattractive, it would be a hell of a lot easier. If I was ugly and out of shape, I wouldn't have the opportunity to fool around. But no, I'm a good looking guy, so I have all these people who want to date me or mess around, and I have to learn to say no and leave it at that.

Anyway, enough of my rambling. I thank you and Phil for the advice, and welcome any other advice too. I just dread the day that he might ask me if I did fool around on him, because I would have to be honest, its just in my nature to be honest with a direct question.

Personally I thought what you wrote was great. I just went through a "fall from grace," confessed, and it did not kill us but made us stronger. But I've known my sweetie two years. If I were in your shoes, and felt so guilty, etc, I think I might just try to mend my ways- but save the confession for if and when it is ever brought up as an issue. Bottom line, if you put stress on him you'll feel awful, believe me I know. BUT if the issue of fidelity should arise, be honest- at that point.
I'm not likin' this potential employer at all. He sounds like he has all the trite societal stereotypes about prison firmly lodged in his head and even a few about gay people, which I gather he is himself? Good grief. If you don't get the job, I think it'll be because the universe has better things in store. And on some level the same goes for the relationship...I would take it easy and wait to hear from him, see the tone of his letter. Support and love is the biggest thing you can offer him right now, and it is clearly in your heart to give that, no matter where your body may have led you. I can ALMOST do this right, but I'm 42. And female:)
And I hope this doesn't offend, but I must say, one thing I am seeing here is that it takes a real man (or a real woman, I guess) to be gay! at least we breeders don't have our loves locked in there with a whole bunch of potential rivals. Nor do we get all that happy horsepoop about how the life expectancy of a relationship is 6-8 months. Lord, he makes it sound like a goldfish or something. I know gay couples who are for life and that's THAT.
An ex-BF of mine is always telling me that my love- who is an open minded soul- is probably, uh, enjoying the opportunities in there. I doubt it, but part of me just would wish he made a friend that good. Gay or straight or whatever, this is tough stuff for us all.

James - all I can tell you is that being in love with a prisoner has been the best and the absolute worst experience of my life. I have learned more about the human condition in the last 3+ years than I have in my previous 30 something years. You are on a journey that will be very exciting, frustrating, painful, and joyful all at the same time. You have an opportunity to develop a true connection with this man like you have never developed before. Believe it or not - the sexual/physical part of a relationship is only a very small part. I am not saying that it is not important but it is small in the larger picture of what is important in a relationship. We have been through a lot of bumps in the road - most I have never discussed on PTO. We have grown through each and every one. I don't believe in soul mates - I just know that we were destined to be together. I will add that 'on the street' in 'normal' circumstances we would not have lasted a month. It is the situation and the circumstance that is making our relationship what it is and will be.

Just take your time and keep your eyes wide open. Be true to yourself first...

Well, today I'm driving 175 miles to his hearing, wish me luck, because I'm not sure if my little 93 Chevy Lumina will make it, lol. I know chances are that I wouldn't get a chance to talk to him right? We have this little hand signal for "I love you" I plan on doing that at least, but I'm pretty sure I won't get a chance to talk to him at all...

Well today is a day I've been looking forward to and a day I dread, because today I get to find out how much longer he will be gone. I'm hoping that his public defender is at least good at making decent deals with the prosecution. I have a strong feeling I'm going to be sitting in the court house a long time though, because there are about 17 people all scheduled for the same time. Assuming they all take about 20 minutes each and maybe throw in a break or two, I know I'll probably be there until about 5 or 6 that night.

By the way, does anyone know what "RSTS" means? I'm looking at the court docket and it shows for my BF 0 RSTS, but I'm not sure what that is.

So I just got in from his hearing... he's got 200 more days (if I'm figuring the time right). They told me he has 7 months, but what I did was took the full sentence (20 months) multiplied by 30 days to come to 600 days. Then I subtracted the 400 days he's already served and found he has 200 more days left.

Now my question to you folks is, when they say 20 months, is it 20 calendar months or 20 months of 30 days?

Because in one view, he'll be getting out April 11th, in the other view, it will be 10 days later. I'm hoping it will be April 11th, because his B Day is that Saturday, and I want to do something really special for him that day.

So if anyone can tell me how jails figure time (per month or per day?) I'd greatly appreciate it.

Aside from that, I'm doing really good coping with everything. I've moved on from my earlier mistake and now have only him on my mind. I'm going to find things I can look forward to on a weekly basis to help time pass quicker. For example, I think I'm going to start going to church every week (I'd go 29 times before he's back!) and whenever I have free time, I'm going to go to Kareoke. I also need to start getting back into going to the gym, but I'm still looking for a job, so it depends on what my schedule ends up being for me to fit that in (probably early in the morning).

I'll ask you guys a philosophical question too... Do you think people look for meaning in certain events, or do you think there is some higher power that shows us certain things for a reason? Everyone I talk to says its a little of both.

When I was driving all the way back from upstate, I heard 4 of our songs in a row (we have a lot, so maybe it was just good odds). But the fact that I switched the stations 4 times and each time landed on one of our songs.

First I heard that "If you're looking for my goodies" song, he really loves to do a funny voice when he sings that song :D

Then I heard the song "Broken" by Seether, he said a long time ago that these lyrics remind him of me:

"I wanted you to know I love the way you laugh. I wanna hold you high and steal your pain away"

Then one more station switch and I landed on "Nothing on But the Radio", which I wasn't a big country fan until he played that song for me, and I really like the lyrics.

After that, I switched the station again and then they played my sad song :(

"Here Without You" by 3 Doors Down. I sang along and cried.

But just something about music... the effect it has on me. I never felt this way in other relationships. Sure there were songs that previous boyfriends said was "our song". But for some reason, this time is different. Its the music that means something now, and it means something because he is in my life, and he's not here with me right now. All of a sudden, the lyrics have meaning, whereas before they were just nice little tunes that gave me a small burst of emotion. Its like the difference between a nice candy bar and an expensive seafood dinner. Does that make sense?

Anyway, I kind of hinted to him about my infidelity, I couldn't stand to keep it bottled up. I didn't flat out say it happened, but I hinted at it. He told me that it would hurt him, but he's in jail, and it would be wrong of him to tell me what to do, and what he doesn't know won't hurt him. I told him, it may not hurt you, but it hurts me knowing it. So after that, I decided that he is the only guy for me.

One thing in particular that stood out to me what when I told him "Once I have a good job, and I save up enough, I want to help you with your traffic tickets." He told me not to worry about it, that he would take care of it himself. In my view, if he was a user, he would have let me do it, but he told me to leave it up to him. Which tells me two things: one, that he's not a user (which I was certain he wasn't, this just justifies my view even more) and two, that he is learning that he has to fight his own battles and take care of his own issues. This just shows me how much he has matured in the short time he's been in jail.

He told me that the biggest thing to him is knowing that someone out here loves him and cares about him. If it weren't for that, then he wouldn't care about anything, and likely, he'd just get in trouble again. He said that his love for me is what will keep him on a good path. I'm going to do my best to be a good influence too and stay faithful from now on.

Anyway, I better get to sleep, but if someone can answer the two questions above, I'd appreciate it:

How is jail time figured (calender months or day by day with 30 day months)?

and the philosophical one, do you think we look for meaning in situations, or maybe there is a higher power that shows us certain things for a reason?

Good night everyone, and thanks for all your support!

James

james, may I please say something wihtout offending you. i am only saying this because i used to ask myself the same questions you bombard yourself with now.. stop asking the questions... atleast about him for right now.. focus on you. you need to heal yourself while you have the chance.. take the time and oppurtunity that you have while he is locked up to help you. YOU need you right now. if you make yourself a better you first.. then YOU can be a better YOU to HIM!!! Be good, and PLEASE remember, if suicide was the answer, why would you be important to him? you have to think about that to get it....

Shanna~Banana

I'm not suicidal now, and I'm pretty sure he's not either. And yes, I understand that I need to get my life moving forward again, and that's what I plan on doing. I know he'll be fine where he is. He's safe and he's staying out of trouble, so I'm not worried about him while he's in jail. All I was saying was I need to find things to occupy my time to help the time pass quicker. I already planned my time out (the big picture), but its the little things that help the time pass that I need to figure out. In other words, I know where I want to be in a year, two years, five years. It's just getting from here to there that I'm working on figuring out. Does that make sense?

So I'm not sure where you got the suicide idea from (unless it was one of my older posts). I was suicidal when he was first arrested, especially when I hadn't heard from him, but after I finally saw him, I felt better. And now that I know how long he'll be gone, I'm perfectly fine with it. 200 days is a blink of an eye, I know that me and him can make it. So I'm not worried about it, what I was talking about was moving on with my life now that I know he's going to be ok.

But thanks for the response.

James

Well on your philosophical point, all humans seek to make order out of disorder, and so see patterns which they might attribute to higher powers. I view which I don't subscribe. Others may differ.

Alan

If you would be perfect give up all you have.

James,

I haven't been online for awhile, so I've just read all your posts here tonight. Forgive me if I refer to some things that you've written that may not be big issues for you at this point, but there were a few things that I thought might be worth mentioning.

First of all, my partner and I have been together for almost 8 years, including the last 3 years while he's been in prison. He has only 5 months to go, and I can't wait!

I can tell that you're in a difficult situation, and it's obviously very painful. Coming here for support was a VERY good move! Your situation is more complicated because you were together for a short period of time before this happened, and because this is your first real love, so things feel more intense to you right now than they would otherwise.

First, don't let other people tell how you feel or how you should feel. It isn't fair for anyone to tell that you "don't really love him" because of this or that... everyone loves in their own way. Only you know how deeply your love really goes for him, and you have a right to your feelings even if others don't understand that. However, be careful to not fall in love with the whole "tragic romance" of this situation... it's easy to idealize someone that you can't be with right now, and form an image of perfection in your mind that a real person can't live up to. Allow yourself to be "real" with yourself... you aren't a bad person if you wait for him, and you aren't a bad person if you don't. In your heart, you already know what's right for you.

I remember how hard it was on me when my partner was first arrested. It feels like a part of you is missing, and it's hard to focus on anything else. Everybody finds a different way to get through that pain. What worked for me was to focus on our future together, and the things that I could do now to make things better when he comes home. For me, that meant really getting my own act together. The more "together" I am when he comes home, the more I can focus then on the things he needs, without having to spend a lot of extra effort fixing parts of my own life that fell apart while he was gone. In the last three years, I've completed another educational degree, lost a little weight, fixed up the apartment, saved some money and budgeted my finances, and worked on succeeding in my career. All of these things helped me, while at the same time allowed me to focus on building a better life for the both of us when he gets home. Anything positive you do for yourself will be a positive thing for him as well. It's hard to focus on these things when you're depressed, but try to remember that wallowing in depression is selfish, and it prevents you from doing anything for him at all. Use the next few months to work on being the best person you can be, and that will be a great gift for him as well.

As far as the correspondence between you and that potential employer, well, that was all unfortunate. From this whole experience, you should learn that it is never a good idea to bring up personal issues with a potential employer. You never want to give the impression that your personal life could get in the way of your work; this guy doesn't really know you, and he is looking for a stable person to do a job. Even if he likes you, his job is to hire an employee that will make his workload easier to manage so that he can deal with his own personal issues, so he isn't likely to hire someone who is dealing with a lot of trauma and could make his life more complicated. Also, while I am very proud of my relationship and I am always open about it at the places I work, I NEVER bring it up before I have the job. Like it or not, there are a lot of homophobes out there who won't offer you the job if you offer too much info about your relationship with another man. It isn't fair, but it's reality. This potential employer obviously means well, and he is concerned about you, but he really doesn't have a clue. He has a very narrow view of gay relationships, and he's very negative about being gay. He seems to have the mindset that this is "just a phase" for you, and that you'll give up being gay when you're a little more mature. While it's very true that most gay men in your age group aren't looking for a long-term relationship right now, most straight men of college age aren't looking for that either. My relationship with my partner is stronger and more stable than many heterosexual relationships in this same situation, so don't let anyone tell you that a gay relationship can't last a long time... mine is going to last for the rest of my life!

You said that you worry about things like, "what if I wait for him, and it doesn't work out when he gets released?" All that I can say in response is that no relationship comes with guarantees. If you need a guarantee, stay away from relationships altogether! :) Sure, people are changed by their experiences in prison, and he might be a little different when he gets out -- or he might just be different than you remember him to be (our minds play tricks with our memories!). Of course, we all have experiences every day that make us a little different, so you might not be the same person when he gets out, either. While my partner has been in prison, we've both changed a great deal. Will it work out for us when he gets released? Well, I believe it will, but nobody knows for sure. The important thing is that the decisions I make now about things are based on the feelings that I have for him right now, not because of how I feel about him in the future. If things don't work out for us months from now, it would be devastating, but it wouldn't make me regret waiting for him, or for doing the things that I do to make his time easier for him. Everything I do is out of love for him, and because it makes me happy. Everyday that I am a part of his life -- even while we are physically separated -- makes me happy and thankful. Right now, I am happier waiting for him than I would be if I were moving on with someone else. If it doesn't work out later, that doesn't take away the happiness I have with him right now. So, don't worry about the future; worrying won't change what will happen. Instead, focus on enjoying the feeling of loving someone and being loved in return. If the relationship doesn't work out in the long run, you'll still be better for this experience.

As others have already mentioned, there isn't a right or wrong answer to whether or not you should be faithful. Every relationship has its own rules, and if the two of you are comfortable with that, it's all that matters. Some couples have open relationships (even when they are living together), while others are strictly monogomous. The same is true with revealing any infidelities that may occur. When he was arrested, my partner and I agreed to try to resist temptations, but to be understanding if one of us slept with someone else during this time. I told him that if he slept with anyone, I wanted to know, because it would feel like less of a betrayal to me. He said that if I slept with someone else, he doesn't want to know, because it would be too hard on him to try to deal with that from inside prison. Every person has different needs when it comes to this; the important thing is to talk about this kind of issue with your boyfriend, and to decide together what works best for you. Talking about this type of thing is never pleasant, but the difficult discussions have made our relationship even stronger, and I believe the same will be true for you. While you're apart and you can't reach out and touch him, you can still touch his heart.... communication is the key.

One last bit of advice... try not to obsess about his exact release date yet. Believe me, you'll never come out with the same date that the prison does. They will tell him his exact release date very soon, and you can work with that. Trust me, but if you spend too much time counting the days right now, you'll drive yourself completely insane! Focus on enjoying each visit, and each letter you write or receive. Most couples don't talk as much when they're together because of distractions and activities; when words are all that you have (like in this case), you'll learn more about each other in your honest letters than you would have learned face-to-face in years! Make the most of getting to know each other on this whole new level!

In answer to your philosophical question, I have a strong faith in a higher power, as well as the need for humans to rationalize things in their own minds to be able to deal with difficult times. I believe that most things do happen for a reason, but I think that we often don't understand it. When the reason isn't obvious, we tend to assign one ourselves that helps things make sense. Do we sometimes create a reason for something when there isn't one, or when we can't really figure it out? Sure. Are we wrong sometimes? Sure. Does it matter if we're wrong? If it helps us get through a difficult time and it helps us to grow, it doesn't matter if we're right or not.

Sorry for the lengthy post, but I hope it helps. Feel free to PM me if you just need someone to talk to... I'm always happy to help when I can, or at the very least, I can offer a sympathetic ear!

Thank you very much for the response, it came at a really good time. I was pretty close to giving up. I mean, I don't want to give up on him, never, but I was ready to give up on surviving. I'm going to school now and trying to keep my head above water all while not having many financial resources to live on. I apparently can't get financial aide because I am a veteran, the school and the Dept of Ed keeps messing up my files. I can't get loans because my paperworks is messed up. I've tried to find a job that will pay enough for me to live on for the last 3 months without any luck. I've even thought of turning to illegal sources of income like prostitution just to survive. And if I get caught and go in front of a judge, what am I going to say? "Well, I can't get welfare, I can't get financial aide, and I can't find a good paying job that will work around my school schedule, I have no other choice then to sell my body to survive, and I guess if trying to survive makes me a criminal, then so be it. But I think it's more criminal that a veteran is treated like this by the government that he served."

Anyway, I'm just frustrated, I plan on writing all my Congressmen to see if they can help at all. In the meantime, I don't know how I'm going to survive.

So I confessed to him this week... I'm afraid of the answer, but after getting drunk a lot and hurting myself over my betrayal, I couldn't hold it in anymore. He deserves honesty, and he should know what I did while he was gone... I can only hope he can forgive me and take into account all the good things I've done and that he forgives me for this one bad thing. I feel like crap right now, I wish I would have been better for him, and I fear this will be the one thing he can't forgive.

People always ask me, if you love him, how could you cheat on him. I don't know, I don't think there is an answer besides I am human and I was lonely. I only want him in my life, but he can't be here right now. I'm hoping he'll understand, but I don;t know how I'll react if he can't forgive me or tells me its over. I'm afraid I'll hurt myself again.

Has anyone been in this situation? Can anyone help me? I can't even forgive myself for what I did to him, how can I expect him to forgive me?

James

James,

Here is a bit of advice/wisdom that some may buy into and some may not but never the less, here goes...

Life is a series of lessons. We are here for whatever reason and we are on a path that takes us in different directions. We follow a path - or think we are following a path - and suddenly there is a fork in the road or some sort of diversion. We take what seems like the right path at the time but in the end it is the 'wrong' path... this is where you are now.

Was this the wrong path? No, not necessarily. It was the path that you followed at the time and as much as you want to be able to backtrack and change the past and ultimately the future, you cannot.

To me life is about lessons. I have learned many by taking the wrong path. Sometimes I have corrected that path as I have been travelling it and sometimes I have followed it all the way to the end - even when I have known that it was not the right path.

Lessons teach us. We cannot turn back - so - if we are to move forward, we have to learn to forgive ourselves AND others.

I am not judging you for what you did. I am not in a position to do so.

You however have to forgive yourself becasue if you don't, you will allow the pain of this deviation to dominate you. Why would you want to continue to suffer for this deviation in your path when you cannot change it? Forgive yourself. Learn from it and move forward.

If your Partner is to forgive you is yet to be seen. All you can do is lay your heart on the table in front of him and ask for forgiveness. I can't predict the end result, but beating yourself up will not help.

Accept - Learn - Forgive - Move Forward

Thankfully, he forgave me, now I just have to learn to forgive myself. Thanks everyone all the same.

James

From the perspetive of a lasitng relationship, 15 months is NOTHING. People are separated for that long for many many reasons. If your relaitonshiop can't stand that long an interruption, it wouldnt stand the test of time anyway.

So, try to think of this as a good thing - a way to cool your emotions and see if this really will stand the test of time. You will be able to visit and keep in touch. You have a lot to learn and a lot to find out. Make it into a positive.

I never got a response when I sent this to the Customer Service folks, but for personal reasons I want to close out this thread completely. I want to have it deleted from this site. So how do we go about doing that? I'd really appreciate a response as soon as possible, thanks

econ101,

I will post this in the thread and I will PM you with the same information. PTO does not delete threads. If there is a specific reason that you would like this thread removed then you may contact me (Site Administrator and Moderator of this Forum) and tell me why you would like it removed.

If you read the initial policy that you agreed to when you joined PTO and if you read the policies that are posted on the site you would understand that we do not delete content from the site.

You are free to contact me privately to discuss and if there is a security issue that is behind your request then it will be discussed and considered.

You will find this same information in a private message and I encourage you to reply to that message and we can discuss your request.