i think this is an extremely unethical and inappropriate question...

the victim's behavior before or after a crime should not be in question...

i think it was disgusting to have asked, and disgusting to have answered....


*Note*
This thread is in response to the following Poll/Thread:
http://www.prisontalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=74831

i think this is an extremely unethical and inappropriate question...

On the contrary, I believe it is a very reasonable question. As for it being unethical, I'm not a member of any professional association. :)


the victim's behavior before or after a crime should not be in question...


I think the victim's behavior in the Kobe Bryant case after the alleged rape has EVERYTHING to do with the charges. I am a firm believer that ALL evidence should be heard in a criminal case.. (For both sides) Too many times it is not and people go to prison because a jury was not allowed to see the "big picture".

While I don't think her previous sexual activities are all that relevant (unless you claimed rape before and it was found to be something else), I definitely think that having sex again (if she did) before she even went to the ER clearly shows that she WAS NOT traumatized, and thus it was more of a consensual nature.


i think it was disgusting to have asked, and disgusting to have answered....

You are entitled to your option. It is mine that justice can only be applied fairly if all the facts are known.

I don't know if Kobe is innocent or guilty... I don't even know if she in fact had sex with someone else after what took place in Kobe's room... (I'm not a sucker for the media) What I am discussing is IF someone was raped, how likely would they be to have sex again right afterwards. If you find that disgusting, I am sorry...

I'm with Fed-X on this one. I didn't think it was inappropriate or unethical at all. If I had thought it was...I wouldn't have responded. In my experience...I have known of girls (not saying everyone does this...i'm just speaking on the females I KNOW of that have done this) that will say "He raped me" but...just want attention...which is an awful way to try and get someone's attention....Lord knows "attention" is the last thing I was worried about after I was raped. :( But, that is MHO...nothing more....nothing less.

huggs,
Selena

I agree with u FED X! why would hse have sex with someoen else BEFORE going to the ER?!?!?!?

I agree with the other gals too. I too thought it was a reasonable question. Unethical and inappropriate? If you thought so, than why continue to add flame to the fire by starting a new thread on the exact subject.

I have to say calling a author of a thread and several victims disgusting for answering a thread, that is disgusting to me and not what PTO is about.

Quote:

i think it was disgusting to have asked, and disgusting to have answered....


I am a Rape survivor and I find nothing wrong with the question. As Fed-x said I believe that the whole truth in any case should come out.
Including behavior and past behavior. It is called character, as they do in any case that goes to trial.

Does anyone deserve to be raped because of their behavior NO of course not. But neither does someone have a right to say they were raped if in fact they weren't.
Everything should be presented, so to fairly prove guilt or innocence.

softie

No I don't think it was disgusting at all, I think it was a necessary and relevant question.

I think that it was a good poll. Why would you want to have sex with someon right after being raped. I don't know about you but I wouldn't want anyone touching me after that. You were violated and having sex with someone else after the fact doesn't seem logical to me, but everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

May God Bless You.

Shona`

Having been raped I think its a very valid question. As Moderator of the Loving A Sex Offender Forum, I have seen far too many members supporting a loved one who is in prison for rapes that did not happen. Its time for changes to be made!

Well i agree with Fed X I mean ive been in the situation too.. I think it is a valed question.. jus tmy opionion

I'm in complete agreement with everyone...but the person saying it's unethical and inappropriate to ask.

Could you sit on a jury and convict someone of rape if the victim went out and had good ole romp in the sack as if nothing had happened just hours after being raped? I know I sure couldn't...

And I don't think PTO is the place to call specific people "disgusting."

Good grief ! I really liked the question and was happy that i could answer it....if that really bothers you so much feel free to put me on your ignore list !

Too many men/boys are convicted on a female's word with no other evidence. I believe evidence from both sides should be allowed in, including why the female may have made it up... Do I believe this question is unethical or innappropriate i any way? NO. I think if someone were really raped they wouldn't want to be touched by someone in a sexual manner for awhile... Maybe held by a loved one, but that's it.

Deb

francis...you are entitled to your opinion...as is everyone here on pto...i responded to the thread...i don't think i am "disgusting" for that...or anyone else who answered...what are you so angry about? :mad:

Hi, I just voted on the poll. This is a hard topic to discuss but I don't think it unethical or inappropriate. I agree with you about a victim's past coming into play, but for a rape victim to go have sex after being raped (or didn't she say it was a violent rape, I forget)???? Anyway, how could that be true??? Sounds crazy to me and and if that's the case I think a jury should hear it. I'm sorry you think its disgusting. :eek:

francis ~ you know I love ya honey but this is the kind of world we live in, a world where sometimes people are physically raped and where others are raped by a system both are filthy but to pose a question or answer a question is the dialogue that is so vital to future change. If you aren't part of the solution you are part of the problem.

My two cents,
Patty

Patty, you said it perfectly! We have to ask certain questions to promote change. If you're afraid to ask things...change will never occur.

1.3 women in the United states are forcibly raped each minute

Sexual assault is acknowledged to be the most under-reported violent crime on which national statistics are kept..
there is so much shame and blame that victims keep quiet...in part due to questions like the one fed-x posted..

i don't thnk any of you are disgusting...just the whole conversation which is quite common about wht the alleged rape victim was wearing, doing before and after etc. to me is unethical, degrading, and dangerous..

I felt that the thread needed a response; i think it truly was wrong.

I believe we should not ignore injustice, racism, classism, sexism....

the thread asking the question...was not another member asking for support....

to question the victims behavior is unethical.

The Colorado Supreme Court has ruled that jurors in the rape prosecution against NBA star Kobe Bryant will be allowed to hear some details about his accuser's sex life. The case calls attention to the effectiveness of rape shield laws designed to protect victims.

What message does it send?

A message is being transmitted, though, and it is heard loud and clear by rape victims and those who would counsel them: When you go to court to point out your perpetrator, you and your sexual behavior could end up on trial.

This deeply worries Donna Todd, from the Crisis Center of Tampa Bay, which counsels rape survivors and others. No matter the outcome, no matter the truth of the case - if it can ever be found - Bryant's trial will play to the feeling often held by rape victims that they wouldn’t be believed, but blamed instead.

Forget about guilt or innocence for a moment. This other thing, this risk that rape victims will go mute, would be the worst outcome of all.

The disclosures already made in the Bryant case show that rape shield laws don't completely prevent allusions to the sexual history of accusers. Advocates of victims' rights say such disclosures show precisely why rape shield laws are necessary, arguing that a defendant's guilt or innocence should related to his or her own behavior, not that of the alleged victim.

Defense attorneys continue to look for ways to circumvent protections of rape shield laws, says Claudia Bayliff, a Niwot, Colo., attorney affiliated with the NOW Legal Defense and Education Fund. "The goal is make the victim appear promiscuous and as a result appear less likely to tell the truth," she says.

Defendants have good reason to want to provide jurors with as much information as possible about victims' sex lives. Social-science research suggests jurors are as likely to assess defendants' guilt based on their view of victims' virtue as based on physical evidence presented, says David Bryden, a University of Minnesota law professor.

Jurors consider whether a victim resisted, complained promptly, or had a good reputation. "They do give weight to whether the victim behaved in a circumspect way or in a careless way and whether she appears to be sexually restrained or unrestrained," says Mr. Bryden

No matter what ultimately gets admitted to court, many Americans, and most likely the future jurors, know about the wrangling over the victim's underwear, and whose semen stains it contained, or about the defense's theory that this fits into a pattern of attention-getting behavior - issues that critics say could prejudice a jury. It could also make future victims fearful that their past will be investigated as ruthlessly as this woman's has been.


The woman "is the victim of this defense-at-any-cost mentality, in a case where because there's so much at stake, the beating she's taking is unbelievable," says Wendy Murphy, a former sex-crimes prosecutor who now teaches at the New England School of Law.

Most states' laws were enacted in the 1970s, as a recognition that a rape victim's sexual history is too often used against her in court - and that it prejudices juries yet provides little evidentiary value.

i am trying to understand how it is not considered sexist to question a rape victims sexual behavior...there is a law against doing so...

an equivalent question in order to put a light on the subject, "do rapists have consensual sex just after raping.." or do wives of rapist have consensual sex after their partner has raped someone, or who rapes more black men or white men...however, i know these question would be deleted and probably offensive to many...and, i would never post such a thread...again these are questions are to illuminate the nature of fed-x's question..

i appreciate you taking the time with this..
i am coming from a place of human compassion and concern...

many rape victims blame themselves...this sort of question contributes to victim shame and blame..

We live in a society, which focuses on the victim, and such a question that fed-x posted helps to perpetuate this problem...

Like all of us i ignore threads o'plenty that i don't find acceptable or disturb me

But, this thread about questioning a rape victims sexual behavior needs to be addressed...i don't understand how such a thread could be acceptable...

the thread i responded to was anything but supportive....definitely problematic, and far from bringing peace and understanding

i aprreciate you all considering this..

Every women who claims to be a victim is not a victim. That is why we have loving a sex offender forum and why many wives and girlfriends are sitting out here waiting on their loved ones to come home who are innocent. that is why innocent or not they will be branded for the rest of their lives.

To me those are the victims, the ones sitting in prisons for crimes they did not commit. Why because the so called victims rights had to protected.
Having everything come out in court may stop some of that. Not only does the victims have right, so does the person being accused falsely.

In any other case, murder or anything a persons back ground and credibility are brought in to play in the court room and it should be NO different for some who is accusing some one else of a sex crime.

Because this women says she is a victim does not mean she is, she may be I am not the judge or jury.

But I do know if found guilty Kobe will be branded for the rest of his life. Just as any other sex offender will be. I personally think we need to do everything to make sure that we are convicting the gulity and not the innocent.

Just my two cents worth.

softie

if you are the alleged vicrtim of a robbery you will not be asked about your spending habits, if you are in debt....your mental health will not be qustioned and exposed...your sexual habits will not be questioned to prove you are promiscuis and therefore a liar..your bank statements, and credit card bills will not be used as evidence against you ie:you spend so much money, that you are trying to blame someone for taking your money....

(i am not referring to the bryant case....i am concerned about alleged rape victims)

there are more women who don't report, then women who cry rape...also, most rape cases are very hard to win..most alleged rapists are not convicted...due to biases because: she didn't say no enough, or she didn't fight back, or she went to work the next day, or she turned her report in at school (a recent case of a gang rape at ucla), or what she was wearing, or she is a sex worker...all of which have nothing to do with if she was raped or not...

the focus needs to be more on the alleged perpetrator not on the alleged victim...

softheart, you mentioned the women on pto..
i am not in any way referring to the women on pto whose partners have been falsely accused.....i feel for these women and their unjustly convicted partner...i think it is horrible what they are going through, due to lies...

Oh you are wrong there, once you report a robbery or any type of theft you are checked out. As a victim of a robbery everything goes in the court room. Why you had that much money. Could you have planned this because you are so much in debt. With a good defense lawyer for the person being accused everything is and can be brought up.

For any sexual crime the same should go. Example if a women claims to be raped at 9:00pm and at 10:00pm she is out having a party with her boyfriend, the jury has a right to know that. Because that is not the actions of a victim. A person comes in to a store robs you at gun point, you aren't going out to celebrate an hour later. Why because you are scared to death after what happened.

A women claims she is a victim 4 times in one week, by different men, the jury has every right to know that. In any criminal cases, the court and jury have every right and should know everything in order to make a fair decision. Rather it be on the side of the alleged victim or on the side of the one being accussed.

Man for most rapist not being convicted, I know 1000's that are listed in states for the rest of their lives. And many many more sitting in prisons across the country.

If more rapes are not reported then ones that are, how do we know any stats on the ones not reported?

You say you are concerned for the innocent, well not having the truth brought up in court is why there are so many innocent ones in our prisons today. Because the alleged victims rights had to be protected. What about the innocent victims who are found guilty, what about their rights.

As a victim of a rape, I would have been more then happy to have anything I did or had done brought up in court.

softie

I agree with softheart that you're definitely checked out. I was just sued civilly for something and I couldn't believe all the stuff they dragged into the courtroom about me! I only rear-ended a woman! I wasn't drunk! I wasn't on drugs! I admitted responsibility! But did that stop 'em from laying out my whole life history? Nope!!!

The comments about victims rights are totally off, in my opinion. Every victim in my caseload complains "why does he have so many rights?" Why? Because victims rights laws suck. What laws are there? Very few in comparison to those for the defendant.

I'm all about the rape shield law...but I think the behavior of the victim is a key piece to any crime. It's one crucial way of telling if the victim is lying. On our police reports the officer even has to list the crime victims state of mine following any crime. Calm, afraid, shaking, crying, etc. It definitely has come into play at trial before...

Francis, Thank you for voicing your opinion. It is valid and I respect the fact that you feel so strongly about this issue. I wish you had spoken your views in the beginning instead of attacking the question itself and those who answered the post.
penwife