How do you go about telling the difference between mental health problems and just plain old damage from years of drug abuse?
Thanks Proud grannie

Hi, Proud :)

My second husband was a severe alcoholic; he had several mental health issues as well. To be honest, I never was able to distinguish between the effects of either disease, and I often wondered just how much his addiction played a role in the depression he suffered from when sober.

I would suggest setting out on a road of research...although I didn't get all the answers I wanted, I did learn a lot I never knew. Try Google.com, and type in the words "addiction depression"...see what you can pull from that.

Hope that helps--please feel free to PM me (or better yet, post here) what you find.

Mental helath problems fall into the diagnostic criteria set forth in the DSMIVTR. Drug abuse does too. This question is too broad. You need to be more specific.

Mental helath problems fall into the diagnostic criteria set forth in the DSMIVTR. Drug abuse does too. This question is too broad. You need to be more specific.

My granddaughter was told she was bi-polar but she was a meth. user. I know the meth can mess up your brain so I was wondering if she was truely bi-polar or just messed up from all the drugs. I have been told you treat bi-polar different than brain damage from drug abuse. I just wondered if the medical people could really tell the difference.
Thanks for your responses

ProudGrannie
Alot of people that suffer a undiagnosed mental illness (Im not saying all), do take illicit drugs, to make them feel "normal"
My cousin took LSD, and freaked out really bad, but was a bi polar sufferer. We thought it may have been from taking the drugs, but she had suffered severe depression before hand, and took the drugs to feel better.
Its a tough question to answer. I would do what IrishEyes Suggested, and look it up.
Let us know to if you find anything.

Drug abuse is a mental disorder. Drug abuse can cause mental disorders.

Meth can cause psychosis. I have not heard of a case where it causes bipolar disorder. Psychosis behaviors are similar to bipolar disorder behaviors.

The hallmark symptom of bipolar disorder is at least one manic episode lasting at least one week. Manic episodes may include inability to sleep, inflated self-esteem, irresponsible behaviors, etc. If the person was under the influence of drugs during the manic episode, these symptoms would be indicative of the drugs' affect and not bipolar disorder.

Unfortunately, in the world of psychiatric medicine, the treatment is not an exact science. The procedure for medicating persons presenting with behavioral or emotional symptoms is guess and check. The psychiatrist tries different drugs at different doses until relief of the symptoms is achieved. Bipolar disorder is easier to treat than symptoms of brain damage caused by substance abuse.

In the prison setting, proper diagnosis is rare. Proper medication management is rarer.

Quote
Doe
Unfortunately, in the world of psychiatric medicine, the treatment is not an exact science. The procedure for medicating persons presenting with behavioral or emotional symptoms is guess and check. The psychiatrist tries different drugs at different doses until relief of the symptoms is achieved.

You couldnt of said it better, and its a hard road, for the patient and the psychiatrist.

Drug abuse is a mental disorder. Drug abuse can cause mental disorders.

Meth can cause psychosis. I have not heard of a case where it causes bipolar disorder. Psychosis behaviors are similar to bipolar disorder behaviors.

The hallmark symptom of bipolar disorder is at least one manic episode lasting at least one week. Manic episodes may include inability to sleep, inflated self-esteem, irresponsible behaviors, etc. If the person was under the influence of drugs during the manic episode, these symptoms would be indicative of the drugs' affect and not bipolar disorder.

Unfortunately, in the world of psychiatric medicine, the treatment is not an exact science. The procedure for medicating persons presenting with behavioral or emotional symptoms is guess and check. The psychiatrist tries different drugs at different doses until relief of the symptoms is achieved. Bipolar disorder is easier to treat than symptoms of brain damage caused by substance abuse.

In the prison setting, proper diagnosis is rare. Proper medication management is rarer.
Thank-you for this post. It make a great deal of sense. I received a letter from my granddaughter and she said she lied when the mental health people examined her before she was locked up. She said allot of people can get HIGH from the meds you are given for mental illiness. Also you can sell them on the street or mix them with other things to get a GOOD Meth. Part of her SAFP treatment is being honest about her substance abuse.

Just found out the Billy Meeks Center my granddaughter will be going to from the SAFP UNIT is a dual purpose center and not a half-way house. It will retest her for mental illness plus follow up on her drug abuse. This is in place of a half-way house. She will not be behind locked doors but will go thru the find a job-go to counseling-AA meatings-mediation-etc just like the half-way houses- 90 day program but if she needs meds for mental illness she will receive them.
I think this is great and they should be able to tell the difference between drug abuse--mental illness and true mental illness. I guess in the long run they both are mental illnesses. I got to talk to the lady in charge of this unit and was very impressed. I think we really need to know if she has mental problems since there are 2 little girls involved.
GOD BLESS AMERICA

Thanks for the update! Please keep us posted, proud grannie.

Drug abuse is a mental disorder. Drug abuse can cause mental disorders.

Meth can cause psychosis. I have not heard of a case where it causes bipolar disorder. Psychosis behaviors are similar to bipolar disorder behaviors.

The hallmark symptom of bipolar disorder is at least one manic episode lasting at least one week. Manic episodes may include inability to sleep, inflated self-esteem, irresponsible behaviors, etc. If the person was under the influence of drugs during the manic episode, these symptoms would be indicative of the drugs' affect and not bipolar disorder.

Unfortunately, in the world of psychiatric medicine, the treatment is not an exact science. The procedure for medicating persons presenting with behavioral or emotional symptoms is guess and check. The psychiatrist tries different drugs at different doses until relief of the symptoms is achieved. Bipolar disorder is easier to treat than symptoms of brain damage caused by substance abuse.

In the prison setting, proper diagnosis is rare. Proper medication management is rarer.
right on. i agree

ProudGrannie
Alot of people that suffer a undiagnosed mental illness (Im not saying all), do take illicit drugs, to make them feel "normal"
My cousin took LSD, and freaked out really bad, but was a bi polar sufferer. We thought it may have been from taking the drugs, but she had suffered severe depression before hand, and took the drugs to feel better.
Its a tough question to answer. I would do what IrishEyes Suggested, and look it up.
Let us know to if you find anything.
Kyla said if you find out anything let us know---
They( MHMR) have decided my grandaughter's mental condition was real--moderate to severe depression but with the added drug abuse made her have bio-polar symptoms. They have her in counseling once a day to learn how to deal with anger management and how to cope with her depression. She is in a TTC house where she is in kind of a controlled enviroment--the real test will be when she is released to live in the true real world that will be next month. Guess we will really find out if she begans to have bi=polar symptoms again are not.
Thanks for all the help to everyone
proud grannie

I'm a drug addict (recovering) and my experience is that while ON drugs you can't tell if its the drugs or the mental illness.

Drugs AMPLIFY a mental illness.

Take the drugs away, if the symptoms are still prevelent weeks and months later, then its a mental illness.

Pooh has schizophrenia and his symptoms MIRROR that of Meth Psychosis. But when you hear things and see things 4 months into your sobriety, you can rest assured its not "drug" induced but could be drug "related."

http://www.drugabuse.gov/PODAT/PODAT4.html
This is a good website.
Without A proper medical evaluation, with a Dr. who specializes in addiction and duel-diagnosis, it's really hard to determine whether or not the mental illness stems from substance abuse or just has masked mental illness. I am relunctant to even speculate your daughter's condition ie;4 months is not always a rule to go by... a person can still be detoxing 4 months later. It's case by case. I think we need to tread lightly with these questions IMHO.

http://alt.samhsa.gov/news/index.html

http://www.drugabuse.gov/PODAT/PODAT4.html
This is a good website.
Without A proper medical evaluation, with a Dr. who specializes in addiction and duel-diagnosis, it's really hard to determine whether or not the mental illness stems from substance abuse or just has masked mental illness. I am relunctant to even speculate your daughter's condition ie;4 months is not always a rule to go by... a person can still be detoxing 4 months later. It's case by case. I think we need to tread lightly with these questions IMHO.
Thank you for the 2 sites--you stated a person can still be detoxing 4 months later---question what is the longest time period a person can still be detoxing? Also I guess I am slow but I really did not understand the statement " I think we need to tread lightly with these questions" Can these type questions get someone in trouble or what?
My granddaughter is in a dual -diagnosis center--was in SAFP 6 months now in the half-way (TTC house) house for soon to be 90 days
Thanks
Proud grannie

Grannie,

Has she been diagnosed by a Doctor? There are no blood tests to perform like Ie: diabetes Without knowing her , her history, Full history, Her history of substance abuse, spending time with her, it's nearly impossibe to guess. It takes a whole team of professionals to properly assess someone. treating substance abuse in conjunction with the individual needs of the client and the proper medication if needed. Meth mimics lots of symtoms of mental illness. Detox is case by case. no set perimeter. Depression is very common when coming off drugs and alcohol,even up to a year or more. Some damage perminent especially with meth. Some temporary. Some need medication temporarily to chemically alter their brains back to what it was. And some may always need mediction. without a proper diagnosis just guessing can do more damage than not and treating substance abuse with drug therapy requires ongoing help with doctor and treatment center, working together. Bipolar is vast..not everyone with bipolar disorder will respond to the same medication. I am sorry I can't answer a simple question..there is no black or white. I am not qualified. I am thinking where she is is a good starting point.
http://www.nimh.nih.gov/publicat/bipolar.cfm

Grannie,

Has she been diagnosed by a Doctor? There are no blood tests to perform like Ie: diabetes Without knowing her , her history, Full history, Her history of substance abuse, spending time with her, it's nearly impossibe to guess. It takes a whole team of professionals to properly assess someone. treating substance abuse in conjunction with the individual needs of the client and the proper medication if needed. Meth mimics lots of symtoms of mental illness. Detox is case by case. no set perimeter. Depression is very common when coming off drugs and alcohol,even up to a year or more. Some damage perminent especially with meth. Some temporary. Some need medication temporarily to chemically alter their brains back to what it was. And some may always need mediction. without a proper diagnosis just guessing can do more damage than not and treating substance abuse with drug therapy requires ongoing help with doctor and treatment center, working together. Bipolar is vast..not everyone with bipolar disorder will respond to the same medication. I am sorry I can't answer a simple question..there is no black or white. I am not qualified. I am thinking where she is is a good starting point.
http://www.nimh.nih.gov/publicat/bipolar.cfm
Yes she has been diagnoised by a MHMR DR--the TTC house she is at is a MHMR unit --dual purpose---they have a hospital connected with the half-way house where they do testing. She was told --Time will decided what treatment she will need in the future because she did use Meth for a long period. She does not even remember when she started on Meth--she did pot and other drugs before the Meth. She still does not act completely right and we were told it could take up to 2 years for her thinking process to return to normal and then it might not ever completely return. SO SAD WHAT ESPECIALLY OUR YOUNG PEOPLE ARE DOING TO THEIR LIVES plus how many people they hurt along the way.
Proud grannie

Here is a website that I came across that does a good job of explaining the relationship between mental illness and substance abuse in regard to diagnosis and treatment. I hope it's useful. http://www.helpguide.org/mental/dual.htm

Here is a website that I came across that does a good job of explaining the relationship between mental illness and substance abuse in regard to diagnosis and treatment. I hope it's useful. http://www.helpguide.org/mental/dual.htm
Thanks to you also--I grab hold of any information I can on substance abuse and mental illness. The thing that is really hitting home is the dual illness of drug abuse and mental health can take months or even YEARS to get on top of. All this helps me understand more the struggle my granddaughter and grandson also are going thru. My grandson does not have the mental health issue. Guess I need to be a little more understanding and not expect to much from the granddaughter.
proud grannie

Your body is not detoxing 4 months later. It takes 3-7 days for meth to be out of your system, 28 days for marijunana, 12 hours for alcohol, like 3 days for heroin, approximately with each.

The drugs are LONG GONE after 4 months. The problem is that Drug Abuse can affect the Chemicals in your brain, the production of dopamine, serotonin and other neurotransmitters. Its possible that 4 months later, your body is still not producing these chemicals, in which case, indicates a chemical imbalance which is basically a Mental Health Issue. With the help of medication, you can produce the necessary chemicals and the symptoms of the mental health issue will hopefully subside.

But the detox process is done after days or weeks depending on the drug you were taking.

What the poster may have been referring to is PAWS - post acute withdrawal. That is another story and can last for like 18 months or longer I've heard. I believe that is the psychological withdrawl but the physical detox doesn't take months and months.

Your body is not detoxing 4 months later. It takes 3-7 days for meth to be out of your system, 28 days for marijunana, 12 hours for alcohol, like 3 days for heroin, approximately with each.

The drugs are LONG GONE after 4 months. The problem is that Drug Abuse can affect the Chemicals in your brain, the production of dopamine, serotonin and other neurotransmitters. Its possible that 4 months later, your body is still not producing these chemicals, in which case, indicates a chemical imbalance which is basically a Mental Health Issue. With the help of medication, you can produce the necessary chemicals and the symptoms of the mental health issue will hopefully subside.

But the detox process is done after days or weeks depending on the drug you were taking.

What the poster may have been referring to is PAWS - post acute withdrawal. That is another story and can last for like 18 months or longer I've heard. I believe that is the psychological withdrawl but the physical detox doesn't take months and months.
I plan on doing more research on PAWS that's very interesting. Guess that must be part of why people say it takes a long time to get over the after effects from drugs--METHS is the main one I am refering to.
Thanks for the post
Proud grannie