View Full Version : What happens to someone extradited back for a Parole Violation?


anthonyswife808
02-08-2011, 12:50 PM
does anyone know what happens when someone is getting expidited from another state back to cali? please help!

ifound4ever
02-08-2011, 01:36 PM
I beleive they'll pick him up and send him back to Cali and he'll get a court date soon there after.

FlaminHotCheeto
02-08-2011, 01:59 PM
He will be sent back to Cali then have to go in front of a judge. :( Sorry...

anthonyswife808
02-08-2011, 02:00 PM
does cali always expedite? are their any exceptions? we are all the way in hawaii, its gonna cost them thousands to bring him back are they gonna spend all that money just for him?, and hes in jail for violating his parole for moving to hawaii to stay out of trouble, he hasnt done any other crime since hes been in hawaii

anthonyswife808
02-08-2011, 02:07 PM
in have so many questions! i cant get ahold of his parole officer, how long does someone get for a parole violation? will he be on parole when he gets out? will they let him come back to hawaii? this sucks we have a baby together and i have no money to fly to cali to visit him

nimuay
02-08-2011, 02:49 PM
All the questions you are asking are ones we can't answer. We don't know the original charge, his disciplinary record, his PO, the judge, whether they put an escape charge on him, and on and on. Without that kind of info (and this is a public site, so I wouldn't put it out here, if I were you), nobody can give you even a hint.

only1love
02-08-2011, 04:10 PM
Now that there is a new governor, it is hard to know for sure. In the past, California happily paid to extradite from anywhere back to Cali to stand trial.

FlaminHotCheeto
02-08-2011, 05:47 PM
in have so many questions! i cant get ahold of his parole officer, how long does someone get for a parole violation? will he be on parole when he gets out? will they let him come back to hawaii? this sucks we have a baby together and i have no money to fly to cali to visit him

Try going to the California specific thread. There are people there who will have more information. Hang in there! :)

mrszrod
02-08-2011, 06:00 PM
in have so many questions! i cant get ahold of his parole officer, how long does someone get for a parole violation? will he be on parole when he gets out? will they let him come back to hawaii? this sucks we have a baby together and i have no money to fly to cali to visit him


Sorry you are going through this. Now try to calm down for your sake, his, but most of all your baby's. More than likely, it'll take them 14 to 45 days to pick him up (depends on how many others they hv to p/u). And yes, the transportation cost to get him back to Cali is on Cali, but they depend on the U.S. Marshalls to help them out. Also, if he didn't get into any trouble b/4 leaving Cali & did everything he was supposed to. His PO may agree to transfer parole to Hawii. Contact an attorney to see what his options are & go to the Cali forum, more answers will be there. Blessings!!!:)

Shari
02-08-2011, 06:17 PM
I am so sorry you are going thru this. First off yes CA will come and get it. They do not care about the cost, I have never heard of them not coming to get someone they catch out of state abscounding. You should now that all the time he has not been checking in will not count towards his parole. It is considered dead time so he will still most likely be on parole when he gets out. Right now they are giving guys they pick up for abscounding between 6 and 9 months at half time meaning he will serve betwen 3 and 5 months. Once he is released he will have to go to his PO and file for a interstate compact transfer. His chances of getting it would be higher if you are married, also any and all restitution he might owe has to be paid off before they will even do the paper work for it. Until that is approved he has to stay in CA. I hope this info has helped you a little. If you have any further questions please just ask.

Enchanted Wolf
02-08-2011, 06:22 PM
I am in a similiar boat as you are...my husband is originally from Cali and he received an interstate transfer to my state. Well, recently my husband violated his parole with a couple of misdemeanor charges and once his court hearing here was over and his p.o. informed Cali of the outcome, Cali said they were going to extradite him back to Cali...he is hoping to just have to serve a few months and then be released back out on parole...and the p.o. here said he can reapply for another interstate transfer. You mentioned the cost of extradition is on Cali, but I have read and my husband has heard from others inside that the state comes back to the inmate for restitution on the cost of bringing him back...but that is just hearsay for now.....

anthonyswife808
02-09-2011, 01:24 PM
does anyone know of a program my husband can go into after he gets out of prison that will release him from parole

nimuay
02-09-2011, 01:34 PM
I don't know of any. Certainly don't have such an option in NY.

Shari
02-09-2011, 06:25 PM
There is no such program like that in CA.

anthonyswife808
02-10-2011, 04:03 PM
my husband was transferred from a county jail in hawaii to somewhere in cali today (he was ordered extradited for violating his parole by moving to hawaii) and i was wondering if anyone knows where they are taking him.(hes on parole from riverside) how long until i can find out where he is? will he be allowed to contact me?

Annabelle
02-10-2011, 04:24 PM
He will most likely end up in Riverside County until his court date.

anthonyswife808
02-10-2011, 05:32 PM
Try going to the California specific thread. There are people there who will have more information. Hang in there! :)
you were right, they took him today, now i need to wait for him to contact me, and i need to figure out what im gonna do

Shari
02-10-2011, 05:54 PM
If they transfered him straight to state he is in one of the reception centers, I am not sure which one, but he will not be able to call. There is no calls in reception. In a couple of days you can check this website

CA Inmate Locator (http://inmatelocator.cdcr.ca.gov/default.aspx)

It takes a few days for them to update it but if he is in a state prison in CA he will be listed on this website. If they took him first to a county jail then he will probably be able to call you.

Shari
02-11-2011, 08:06 AM
From the few cases that I know of that the guys were taken back to CA for abscounding with no new case they were take straight to a reception center to wait to see the board. The few I know of they were taken to SQ but that I am sure is not always the case. Like I said above check the inmate locator website and see if he is in the system yet if you do not hear from him.

anthonyswife808
02-12-2011, 06:23 PM
i know this is probably the wrong place to post, but i dont know what else to do, my husband was extradited from hawaii back to california for a parole violation, they had him at sacramento county main jail, but sometime yesterday before 1:00pm they transferred him somewhere else and i cant find where he is, he is on his way somewhere in southern california, does anyone know how long before i will find out any info? or what prison he could possibly be at?

Shari
02-13-2011, 05:36 PM
They might of taken him to one of the reception centers. I am not sure where they send guys from the Sac. area you can wait until like Tuesday and try the inmate locator to see if that is where he is. It might take a day or two for that to be updated but it is the easiest way to see if he is in the system yet. If he is in a reception center he wont be able to call you, but he will be able to write.

CrazyMailMan
02-13-2011, 08:02 PM
What leads you to believe that he is headed to Southern California? Sacramento generally sends people to DVI, Tracy.

anthonyswife808
02-13-2011, 08:52 PM
hes going to southern cali becaus thats where hes on parole sacramento has nothing to do with him

2sleepy
02-13-2011, 11:44 PM
I am in a similiar boat as you are...my husband is originally from Cali and he received an interstate transfer to my state. Well, recently my husband violated his parole with a couple of misdemeanor charges and once his court hearing here was over and his p.o. informed Cali of the outcome, Cali said they were going to extradite him back to Cali...he is hoping to just have to serve a few months and then be released back out on parole...and the p.o. here said he can reapply for another interstate transfer. You mentioned the cost of extradition is on Cali, but I have read and my husband has heard from others inside that the state comes back to the inmate for restitution on the cost of bringing him back...but that is just hearsay for now.....
This is what the interstate compact says about returning an offender to the sending state for a violation:
Rule 5.103, Mandatory retaking for violations of conditions of supervision
(a) Upon a request by the receiving state and a showing that the offender has committed three or more significant violations arising from separate incidents that establish a pattern of noncompliance of the conditions of supervision, a sending state shall retake or order the return of an offender from the receiving state or a subsequent receiving state.
For more information about the interstate compact, you can go here:
http://www.interstatecompact.org/
So, if this is his first violation- they might be breaking the terms of the interstate compact by returning him. And as far as I know, when they sign the agreement for the interstate compact they agree to be held responsible for the costs of being returned to the sending state.

Shari
02-14-2011, 08:25 AM
2sleepy he was not there on an interstate compact. He had abscounded to there. Here is her quote from page one.

"and hes in jail for violating his parole for moving to hawaii to stay out of trouble, he hasnt done any other crime since hes been in hawaii"

So what you found does not stand. Once he abscounded they can take him back to CA whenever they find him.

As for going down south I am not sure if they make them go back to the county they are from before going to prison. From the ones I have read about they usually go to the nearest county then straight to reception. I guess the plane they had him on landed in Sac. and that is why he was in that county and he was probably transfered to DVI where he will see the board to find out how long he will have to do on the violation. If you do not hear from him soon use the inmate locator to see if he is in the system yet.
http://www.prisontalk.com/forums/pto/misc/progress.gif

anthonyswife808
02-14-2011, 11:34 AM
i found him, hes in deuel vocational institute, tracy california in reception

Shari
02-14-2011, 11:49 AM
I am glad you found him. If you need any info on DVI you can go to that forum and ask any questions you could think of. Since he is reception he will not be allowed any calls, but you can write to him right away, and send him some stationary stuff so he can write to you.

Enchanted Wolf
02-14-2011, 07:43 PM
So, if this is his first violation- they might be breaking the terms of the interstate compact by returning him. And as far as I know, when they sign the agreement for the interstate compact they agree to be held responsible for the costs of being returned to the sending state.

It is his first violation. But they cover themselves in every way. In the rules of the Interstate Compact:

Rule 5.101 Retaking by the sending state
(a) Except as required in Rules 5.102 and 5.103, at its sole discretion, a sending state may retake an offender, unless the offender has been charged with a subsequent criminal offense in the receiving state.
(b) If the offender has been charged with a subsequent criminal offense in the receiving state, the offender shall not be retaken without the consent of the receiving state, or until criminal charges have been dismissed, sentence has been satisfied, or the offender has been released to supervision for the subsequent offense.

Rule 5.105 Time allowed for retaking an offender
A sending state shall retake an offender within 30 calendar days after the decision to retake has been made or upon release of the offender from incarceration in the receiving.

And the only thing he did sign in regards to the transfer was that he would not FIGHT extradition. But THANK YOU 2sleepy! :)

2sleepy
02-16-2011, 09:26 AM
2sleepy he was not there on an interstate compact. He had abscounded to there. Here is her quote from page one.

"and hes in jail for violating his parole for moving to hawaii to stay out of trouble, he hasnt done any other crime since hes been in hawaii"

So what you found does not stand. Once he abscounded they can take him back to CA whenever they find him.

As for going down south I am not sure if they make them go back to the county they are from before going to prison. From the ones I have read about they usually go to the nearest county then straight to reception. I guess the plane they had him on landed in Sac. and that is why he was in that county and he was probably transfered to DVI where he will see the board to find out how long he will have to do on the violation. If you do not hear from him soon use the inmate locator to see if he is in the system yet.
http://www.prisontalk.com/forums/pto/misc/progress.gif

my mistake, thought he had transferred- not absconded. Thanks for clarifying ;)

King Of Pop
02-16-2011, 08:13 PM
You don't go before a Judge after being extradited for a parole violation. You go back before the Board Of Parole Hearings(BPH). That is following the parolees return to Callifornia.

King Of Pop

anthonyswife808
02-17-2011, 10:14 PM
you were right crazymailman hes at dvi thanks for your post

betsyblue
03-01-2011, 03:51 AM
how long does california have to pick up a inmate for transfer? if they dont get him will he be released?

4Ivy
03-03-2011, 09:49 PM
how long does california have to pick up a inmate for transfer? if they dont get him will he be released?

It all depends on what State he is located. I know my BF"s bro got arrested in AZ one time for a traffic violation. They found out he was wanted in CA for a violation not reporting to his PO and being in another state. Long story short,they put him in a AZ jail for about 1 1/2 weeks and send him to Chino he was listed as a fugitive. He did about 10 months give or take in Chino afterward.

4Ivy
03-04-2011, 07:03 AM
how long does california have to pick up a inmate for transfer? if they dont get him will he be released?

I forgot to add to my post. He will not be relased if he was picked up in another state for a violation. He most definitely will be send back

Shari
03-04-2011, 07:53 AM
4Ivy is corret CA always picks up guys that are found out of state. It does not matter where they are CA will be there to get them sooner or later.

Enchanted Wolf
03-04-2011, 09:47 PM
how long does california have to pick up a inmate for transfer? if they dont get him will he be released?

From personal experience, Cali doesn't seem to have a deadline to come and pick someone up. We were even told by someone that if they have to they will call the jail, release the hold and then immediately put another hold on the inmate, so starting the clock over again. There has GOT to be some formula they use though.

Example: My ex-brother-in-law took off years ago, trying to disappear from a bad marriage. He lived in Arizona and Cali. He eventually did time out in Cali for idk...probably drugs/dealing....when he was paroled, he took off and came back home... when he was picked up for a new crime, he was flagged as absconding from Cali, there was a warrant for his arrest. He spent a couple of weeks in prison, waiting for Cali to decide and finally they said, forget, we don't want him.

But my husband, legitimately did an Interstate Transfer, but after a few months violated his parole by commiting a misdemeanor. Once everything settled with the current case and Cali was informed of outcome, they said they were coming for him. It took them about 20 days until CDCR personnel showed up to fly him back to Cali for a parole violation. Weird thing is when he was talking to the guards, they said he was being charged with Absconding...hmmmm....

I just find it strange that when budgets are strained and stretched, and governments are putting health care and schools and people's jobs on the chopping blocks to save money, they think NOTHING of flying people back from all over the country for what?!? My husband said a guy that was picked up right before him from another state has taken off 3 times! Each time they give him 9 months at 50%....why not just let him be another states problem? Especially when Cali has the highest prison population in US?

Sorry for spouting, its just when things could have easily been handled right here, and its like the CDCR has to be DRAMA QUEENS when it comes to this....:D

4Ivy
03-05-2011, 03:18 PM
From personal experience, Cali doesn't seem to have a deadline to come and pick someone up. We were even told by someone that if they have to they will call the jail, release the hold and then immediately put another hold on the inmate, so starting the clock over again. There has GOT to be some formula they use though.



They really don't have a deadline at least I don't think so. Most likely it will has to to do when the transpo will pick them up. From personal experience my BF's bro got picked up twice for a violation in the same state and got send back. The first time he was send back within 3 days the last time it took them almost 2 weeks or more. He got stopped in both cases for a traffic violation and did some months in Chino aferward for not reporting to his PO and being out of state. All in all I think it has to do with the PO and he decides what to do with an inmate if they get picked up for a violation. There is no rime or reason if ever with the "CDC'r".

betsyblue
03-05-2011, 04:12 PM
Alright so cali got him yesterday! yay! so he spent about 2 weeks in county. Enchanted wolf: He got a transfer out of state then california took him back??? What? Why? this is the stupidiest thing I have ever heard!! We are working on a transfer right now from cali to Oregon but I did not know they could do this from what I got out of it is the receiving state has responsibilty for him I mean that would make since.. My guy is going back on 9 months with half time and from there I really hope that transfer goes through:) and he dosent get another charge which Im pretty confident he wont but stuff happens Im just so sick of dealing with california!!!

Shari
03-05-2011, 04:15 PM
If they get a parole violation while on a interstate compact CA will take them back and make them do the violation here. Then you have to go thru the hole transfer thing again. Even on a interstate compact they have to follow all the parole rules of CA. The recieve state can add rules, but they can not override any conditions that CA puts on them. Basically the recieving state is just kind of doing the work for CA while the guy is on parole but from what I understand CA is still in charge of the guy and if they want to make them come back if they have a violation they have every right to go and get them.

Enchanted Wolf
03-05-2011, 08:01 PM
If they get a parole violation while on a interstate compact CA will take them back and make them do the violation here. Then you have to go thru the hole transfer thing again. Even on a interstate compact they have to follow all the parole rules of CA. The recieve state can add rules, but they can not override any conditions that CA puts on them. Basically the recieving state is just kind of doing the work for CA while the guy is on parole but from what I understand CA is still in charge of the guy and if they want to make them come back if they have a violation they have every right to go and get them.

Your right on the fact that the receiving state is in effect, working for the sending state as a proxy. My husbands PO would makes statements to that effect, that she was just working for Cali in my husbands case. She also stated that in a few weeks she was going to send a report to Cali about how my husband had been compliant, etc etc. and she was going to suggest that he be released from parole, but it was only going to be a suggestion. But on the flip side, my husband had to pay monthly for "parole costs" here...it depended on how much you were making....example: $0 to $200 was $20 a month, $200-$400= $40 monthly (these are just examples, I don't remember the exact cut offs). I guess I just didn't understand why Cali couldn't have used the power they had in this situation to just say he should do x-amount of time for parole violation and then go back on parole, and have stayed here within the state.

Also, a "just wondering why" question...why in reception are they not allowed phone calls?

Shari
03-05-2011, 08:06 PM
Enchanted everyone asks that question. I know how important those calls are. Also what you said about letting them do the violation in the receiving state is a good idea but I bet the recieving state does not want the expense of housing another inmate especially not one they did not sentence. They figure let CA pay for that inmate if they want him in prison.

I never knew you had to pay to be on parole in another state. Is it like that in all states I wonder. This is something I need to look into cause C is trying to trnasfer his sons probation from CA to OR. If it is going to cost that might make it a harder decision since he is now just making it pretty much. Thanks for that info even if you did not know you were giving it to me.

Enchanted Wolf
03-05-2011, 09:36 PM
Enchanted everyone asks that question. I know how important those calls are. Also what you said about letting them do the violation in the receiving state is a good idea but I bet the recieving state does not want the expense of housing another inmate especially not one they did not sentence. They figure let CA pay for that inmate if they want him in prison.

I never knew you had to pay to be on parole in another state. Is it like that in all states I wonder. This is something I need to look into cause C is trying to trnasfer his sons probation from CA to OR. If it is going to cost that might make it a harder decision since he is now just making it pretty much. Thanks for that info even if you did not know you were giving it to me.

Thanks Shari for you insight! So you don't know WHY they are not allowed phone calls in reception? Just wondering....

About the Parole charging a fee issue, I guess you would have to contact the state directly. We didn't know about this until AFTER my husband arrived here.

I guess I am debating the case of my husband alone. He was following his parole instructions, per say, to the letter. He got a job...he was working 6 days a week, 11 hour days...he reported to Parole Office on appt days, he was here for appt at the house. If he had gone just a few more months, he "might" have been off of parole... this was a New Case and as such, it was committed in this state, NOT Cali. And he was taken to court, plead guilty and was charged with time. He served that time here in a local jail. Then Cali stepped in and extradited him back. That is where I am having issues.

But in the end, what has been done, has been done. We are growing and learning each day from this. (What we are learning is not to trust anyone, especially those in power) My daughters and I have taken it the hardest. They loved their step Dad... he treated them like Princesses. :D In our prayers at bedtime, per their request, I have to make sure I ask God for an speedy return of their Step Dad to us...but it's getting hard when nothing changes, no phone calls...my babygirl today says..."Mom, this is taking FOREVER!!" My only response..."I know"....And my youngest son... my husband always wanted him dressed nice...and was always buying him new clothes and such....a Sharp Dressed Man...:thumbsup: He will ask "When is he coming home?" but I don't have the answer.... We are Christians...we believe in forgiving others for the wrongs they do...just as we are forgiven by God for the wrong we do... so this is just not easy to explain to them... that the Government, they don't forgive. I guess that is really what I should be telling them. I dunno.....:confused:

Shari
03-06-2011, 06:40 AM
What really stinks is depending on how long they give him there is a chance that he might have to do the whole violation in reception. I have been seeing that happen at Donovan. I am not sure it if is happening at DVI. I guess all you can tell them is that he is on a time out for the phone but that they can send him letters as much as they want and he can write them back. We both know how important those letters are to them. I also do not understand why they would make him go back to CA that really is dumb. He did his time for the new charges, but I bet it is a money issue. You know that your state would probably charge CA for keeping him in any longer than he was senteneced so they would rather just spend the money in CA then send it to another state. Yea like CA has the money to spend in the first place. Has he gone to board yet to see how long they are going to give him?

2sleepy
03-06-2011, 09:06 AM
Alright so cali got him yesterday! yay! so he spent about 2 weeks in county. Enchanted wolf: He got a transfer out of state then california took him back??? What? Why? this is the stupidiest thing I have ever heard!! We are working on a transfer right now from cali to Oregon but I did not know they could do this from what I got out of it is the receiving state has responsibilty for him I mean that would make since.. My guy is going back on 9 months with half time and from there I really hope that transfer goes through:) and he dosent get another charge which Im pretty confident he wont but stuff happens Im just so sick of dealing with california!!!
He has to be in compliance with parole for the out of state transfer to be processed, I am not sure if they consider being in prison on a violation means they are out of compliance or not..

Enchanted Wolf
03-06-2011, 11:23 AM
Has he gone to board yet to see how long they are going to give him?

His one and only letter was date Feb. 27th and he was still at Deuel (DVI) but officers had told him that he was going to be moved to a southern prison eventually(he figures it will be Chino). He had NOT had his time in front of board yet but he said Cali had 15 days from when he was picked up and that was Wed. Feb 23.

Oh and regarding the COST of extradition, he was told that Cali pays for it by the police/guards that picked him up.

Shari
03-06-2011, 04:59 PM
Why are they moving him down south? You know you can never believe what the CO's tell you. I would think that he woud go to the board at DVI and then you know the drill wait for a bed to open up on your leave. I know of a girl from Donovan that her guy did his whole bid in reception cause they never had a place open up for him. I sure hope that does not happen to you guys cause I know you really want those calls.

That is good to hear that CA had to pay the extradition costs, but it is to bad for the CA taxes payers that their money is being wasted on such a dumb thing to bring someone back to sit in prison for a few month again at tax payers expense. To bad they do not really know how their money is being wasted.

4Ivy
03-06-2011, 05:24 PM
He has to be in compliance with parole for the out of state transfer to be processed, I am not sure if they consider being in prison on a violation means they are out of compliance or not..

If he is in prison for a parole violation he can not have his parole transfered out of state. The law requires parole violators to return to the parole unit that violated them. If he is not a parole violator he should immediately see his counselor and do the out of state parole paperwork. The process takes about 120 days,so it may not get finished but someone can get it started. If the inmate does not get it started he can have his parole agent do it. It will take longer

Enchanted Wolf
03-14-2011, 08:27 PM
My husband violated his parole while on an Interstate Parole Transfer...he was extradited back to Cali for the violation...he has been in front of board...or he calls it the Valdivia Hearing...and was given his time... He believes he should be transferred back to Southern Prison---Chino--and is wondering why it is taking so long...from all I have read is it just a matter of waiting for a bed to open up???(He wanted me to ask this question on PTO as previous information has been right on)...:D

Also I wonder, will he have the SAME parole officer in Cali that he had before he left??? Or will he get someone else???

Shari
03-15-2011, 08:39 AM
Yep it is just a wait for a bed to open up, and as you know there is no quarentee on where he will go. Just because his case was from southern CA that does not automatically make him go to a southern prison. Tam (you remember her right) was from northern CA and her guy ended up in Jamestown. There are lots of southern gals in fire camp right now from Southern CA and their guys are all in Northern camps. Again it is just the luck of the draw on when and where a bed opens up. How long did they give him? I have acutally been reading of guys doing their whole violations in Recp. cause a bed never opened up for them. I know that will really stink. As for the PO from my experience with my late fiance he always had the same PO everytime he got out from doing a violation so as long as he is still there I would think it is the same. But I wonder since he was transfered out will they give him a new one? Huh I wonder.

Enchanted Wolf
03-15-2011, 11:20 AM
Yep it is just a wait for a bed to open up, and as you know there is no quarentee on where he will go. Just because his case was from southern CA that does not automatically make him go to a southern prison. Tam (you remember her right) was from northern CA and her guy ended up in Jamestown. There are lots of southern gals in fire camp right now from Southern CA and their guys are all in Northern camps. Again it is just the luck of the draw on when and where a bed opens up. How long did they give him? I have acutally been reading of guys doing their whole violations in Recp. cause a bed never opened up for them. I know that will really stink. As for the PO from my experience with my late fiance he always had the same PO everytime he got out from doing a violation so as long as he is still there I would think it is the same. But I wonder since he was transfered out will they give him a new one? Huh I wonder.

He received 8 months at half time and he seems under the impression their giving him time served. No formal erpd yet. He said he asked Commissioner to add on a condition of "no drinking" to his parole terms. Yeah! I'm proud of him. Its the first step on a long road ahead. We have only been able to communicate by letter and it took my letter 10 days to get to him and his letters seem to take about 5 days to get to me. I was wondering about the Parole Officer cause he has said in the past sometimes they just up and change his PO whenever it seemed they wanted too...I would just like to be able to talk to his PO soon to discuss future plans if possible. Thanks Shari!:thumbsup:

Shari
03-15-2011, 06:08 PM
Call the parole office they should be able to tell you who the parole officer will be. I think it was like 4 or 5 months before he was released C was curious who his PO would be so he asked me to call the office. I did and all they asked me was his CDC # and they were able to tell me who the PO was.