My son was in jail and I told the public defender that he was supposed to be on anti depressants. The mental health center would not just give me the drugs to send to my son, so I asked the pd to try to get them. The we hired a paid lawyer and I told him that my son needed the drugs because he could not adequetly defend himself while severly depressed. They paid attorney never did try to get him the drugs and took him to court without my knowldege and had him pplead guilty to two felonies and to forfeit his car which was paid for partially by me. Then they sent him to MO to face more charges. My questions is, can I try to undo what was done because my son was not on the medications like I told them? I have copies of letters to both the PD and the paid lawyer. I am out of state and was unable to travel to where my son was.

Find out the address to the state bar association and file a complaint with them against the appointed and also the hired attorney... That's what they get paid for and if it wasn't followed through with they can be repremanded... You will need to send supporting documents with your complaint and a brief summary of what happened. Most people just don't take the time to do it.

Once a verdict is handed down, then the only recourse you have is to appeal within 30 days (in Washington state). That's about all I can tell you... Hopefully someone else will be able to give you more information. Good luck...

First, I am very sorry that this has happened to your son. However, before you go filing charges against the attorneys, I would visit with them about why they recommended that your son plead guilty. It is very often not a good idea to take the case to trial. If your son is guilty, he more than likely got a much lighter sentence than he would have gotten if he had gone to trial. If he is not guilty, there are still considerable risks with going before a jury. I know it isn't fair, but, unfortunately, it is life. Filing a disciplinary action against an attorney is a potentially career devastating action and it shouldn't be taken lightly. Having said that, if you truly believe that the attorney did not do his job, then file the complaint.

As far as trying to undo the guilty plea, before you do that, you need to make absolutely sure that that is in your son's best interest. As I said, it is very dangerous to go to trial. Only the attorney can advise you of the risks, but I would consider them carefully before you try to undo a deal, then he loses any points he got for acceptance of responsibility, etc. and the chances are the sentence will be much greater if he does get convicted. Also, when he entered the plea, the judge would have asked him if he had any history of mental illness, if he was on any medication or needed to be, etc. If he answered those questions and the Judge determined that he was competent to enter the plea, then you are going to have trouble appealing. I am not saying don't fight it--but I would just consider all of the issues very carefully before you do.

I hope this has been some help--and I will keep your son in my prayers.

Thank you Debi, I will write the state bar.



Find out the address to the state bar association and file a complaint with them against the appointed and also the hired attorney... That's what they get paid for and if it wasn't followed through with they can be repremanded... You will need to send supporting documents with your complaint and a brief summary of what happened. Most people just don't take the time to do it.

Once a verdict is handed down, then the only recourse you have is to appeal within 30 days (in Washington state). That's about all I can tell you... Hopefully someone else will be able to give you more information. Good luck...

Oops, I am sorry, I replied to Debi, before I saw your reply. Is the judge always supposed to ask them about the medications? Because I am pretty sure my son would have told them if they asked. He asked to see a Doctor while in the jail, to get his anti depressants, and they said they did not have that resource available. He saw a nurse but she could not give him the prescription. They said that I had to get it and send it to him, but he is an adult and the mental health center refused to give me any info even though I am his Mother. I told both lawyers all of that.



First, I am very sorry that this has happened to your son. However, before you go filing charges against the attorneys, I would visit with them about why they recommended that your son plead guilty. It is very often not a good idea to take the case to trial. If your son is guilty, he more than likely got a much lighter sentence than he would have gotten if he had gone to trial. If he is not guilty, there are still considerable risks with going before a jury. I know it isn't fair, but, unfortunately, it is life. Filing a disciplinary action against an attorney is a potentially career devastating action and it shouldn't be taken lightly. Having said that, if you truly believe that the attorney did not do his job, then file the complaint.

As far as trying to undo the guilty plea, before you do that, you need to make absolutely sure that that is in your son's best interest. As I said, it is very dangerous to go to trial. Only the attorney can advise you of the risks, but I would consider them carefully before you try to undo a deal, then he loses any points he got for acceptance of responsibility, etc. and the chances are the sentence will be much greater if he does get convicted. Also, when he entered the plea, the judge would have asked him if he had any history of mental illness, if he was on any medication or needed to be, etc. If he answered those questions and the Judge determined that he was competent to enter the plea, then you are going to have trouble appealing. I am not saying don't fight it--but I would just consider all of the issues very carefully before you do.

I hope this has been some help--and I will keep your son in my prayers.

I am in Texas. Here, they always ask as part of the "standard" questions that they do at the entry of plea. I would imagine that that is true in most states. They are pretty careful to do it, because it costs the court system lots of money when people try to appeal this stuff. Because of that, they always try to make it really clear that the person is competent to enter the plea, understands that they are entering a plea, and understands that they are not appealable except in a very few rare situations. Are you in the state or federal system? If in state, what state? Have you had a chance to talk to the lawyer about why he or she made the recommendation? If you want to talk about this in more detail in a more private forum, you can pm me.

NatureJunkee, my son is in a county jail right now, waiting on other charges. I guess the other charges were state. I did ask the paid attorney why he took all my money and then had my son plead to the same charges that the PD would have had him plea to, and he told me, "YOur son was just really tired. He lost a lot of weight and he was just tired". I told him that my son was depressed, not just tired.

ScaredMom
The DA tried to do this to my husband the other day, and it was scary, I got a good attorney, and the decision was overturned, and we chose trial. Can you do this? They are good at getting people when they are afraid and at there lowest, the system stinks like that.
My thoughts and prayers are with you. Your son wasnt in any frame of mind to be plea bargaining. Also, Severe depression falls under the mental health act, so you should be able to get a letter from his doctor as well.

ScaredMom: First, I want to reiterate how sorry I am for what you and your son are going through. The lawyer in me is coming out here, though. Before you decide whether or not you want to appeal the plea, you really need to analyze whether or not the deal he got--whether or not he should have been on his medication--is a better deal than he stood to get if he went to trial. As I said earlier, you need to consider the evidence--or lack thereof--against him, what the makeup of the likely jury would be, what the maximum sentence would be if he went to trial and was found guilty, whether or not he has a prior criminal history, the nature of the offense that he is charged with, the strength of the "deal" that he was offered, etc. etc. etc. You also need to consider how long his sentence is likely to be under the plea, because it could be that by the time you fight the appeal, get to trial, get sentenced, etc. the sentence under the plea agreement could be almost up. My only point is that, unfortunately, the system is set up so that it is EXTREMELY risky to go to trial. It is extremely difficult to get a plea overturned. It is extremely expensive to hire a lawyer and any good lawyer is going to warn you of these risks and take lots of money from you and probably end up with a worse deal than he got with the plea. Again, if he is truly innocent, then you might consider it. BUT--if he did whatever he is charged with and the government has solid evidence of it, then it is almost always better to plea. I am not trying to tell you what to do, or not be sensitive. I just don't want you to do something without thinking about every angle because the stakes are high either way. Good luck to you and your son in whatever action you decide to take.

NatureJunkee
That information was really good. :)
My husband is paranoid schizophrenic, so thats one of the reasons I did what I did. I agree though with the plea bargaining. Thing is, when we sat down with the attorney, I understood what was going on, that if he plead guilty like they wanted then the courts would like at it as remorse, and the sentencing shouldnt be as severe as he showed remorse. But then, if he goes into a not guilty plea (and he isnt guilty of alot of the charges) and the jury finds him guilty, then the sentencing is harsher, cause it would show he showed no remorse. Thats how they systems are made up unfortunetly, so its hard to decide what to do. We are in that mess now, Im saying, dont plead guilty to something you didnt do, while his legal team are going, plead guilty, get a lesser sentence and get on with your life.
The only reason that we got his plea overturned, is when it went into court, I had contacted mental health stating he was in a paranoid frame of mind, cause he hadnt taken his medications (he hadnt), and then it was arraigned, as he needed more advice from his attorneys, and he didnt understand the instructions on the day.
I just wish I had some advice, I dont know what to do myself, its just a hard situation, and yes, trial is risky, as I said, if they are found guilty.

As far as your son getting his meds. Go to the mental health group that treats him get a auth. for you son to sign. I had them fax one to the county jail < medical DEPT> ATTEN: <who ever>here and when my son called me I told him it was in medical and he went down and signed it got a copy made and sent one to me and had the jail doctor or nurse fax the other back to mental health. That way they can get proof he is on meds and start teating him. Tell him and YOU to get names and call and follow up daily till he gets treatment.

Kyla:

I am so sorry for what you all are going through. It sounds like you did the right thing to try to get more time to assess the situation. Do you know whether or not the plea was formally appealed, or whether the government allowed him to withdraw the plea? Have you talked to the government about whether or not they will allow him to re-enter the plea if you all decide that is in his best interest, or has the government (or have you) decided to go ahead to trial? You explained the problem with the "justice" system very succinctly: how do you tell someone to plead guilty to something they didn't do? Unfortunately, the system is so skewed toward this concept of "acceptance of responsibility" that it makes it very difficult to risk going to trial. I hope you have faith in your attorneys, because I know the system is very challenging and it is nice to have counsel that you trust. Please keep me posted on how this works out for you--and you can pm me any time if I can be of any help.

Kyla: I just re-read your post more carefully, and I am sure your lawyers have already attempted this, but is there any chance that the government would just let him plead to the charges that he did do--since those are presumably the only charges that they have any evidence on? Again, I am a little unclear on how far down the train is on the track at this point, but I might talk to the lawyers about telling the government that if it wants to avoid going to trial against someone with a diagnosed mental illness (which the jury MIGHT--or might not--be sympathetic to), then perhaps they should drop the charges which they won't be able to prove and strike a deal on the charges that he actually committed. Just a thought--and, again, I am sure I am not telling you anything you haven't already thought of.

Nature
The thing was that at the time when he commited some of these crimes, he had overdosed on medications, and tried to take his life.
We tried to get it into mental health court, but then the DPP (DA) got a rebuttal and it was a hard situation. The only way that I got the plea overturned, was that we fired the attorney, that was reprenting him, and got him new representation.
I am really the only person that new what went on that day, but when you have police up and down a normally quiet street, you get alot of excitable people, and alot of different stories even the police couldnt get there stories together.
He hasnt decided what to plea, unfortunetly he is afraid, so we will see how they are going to fight it. We were going to get another psych report from a forensic psychiatrist, but legal aid knocked that back, after the DPP had it rebutted. So we are going to try and pay and get one independantly (heaps of money).
I will keep you updated.
ScaredMom
You are very much in my thoughts and prayers, as I feel the circumstances, though different is something that we are both going through. I hope you dont mind me sharing your thread and story. Maybe we both can get the answers that we need.

Nature

I have a question. My son was told by his PD that he should pled Not Guilty this would give his pd more time to work on his case then they will probably take a plea bargin. From what I read here if I am reading this right which I may not be cause like scaredmom I am new at this but most plea guilty prior to a plea bargin. I hope you understand my question. My story is in the parents or addiction threads if you need that. Thank you for your opinion on this.

And scaredmom my heart goes out to you it's all very confusing is'nt it .

WSF

ScaredMom and Kyla: Again, my heart goes out to both of you. I hope you will keep us posted.

WSF: I think I understand what you are asking--but correct me if I am wrong. It sounds like the government offered your son a plea early on in the process and his attorney has advised him not to accept the plea at this point, so that the attorney can see what evidence the government has, etc. and try to get him a more favorable plea down the road a bit. As far pleading guilty before the plea bargain, the plea bargain is actually the same thing as pleading guilty--the government will agree to drop or reduce certain charges, in exchange for your son pleading guilty to those reduced charges, in the hopes that it will result in a lower sentence for him then if he went to trial and lost on the original charges. I hope this helps. Feel free to pm me if you have more questions--I will try to answer them, if I can.

Thanks

They have not offered a plea yet. But you are right the reason we were told was for him to plea not guilty to give the attorney time to look at all the facts. I guess the hope is he will plea guilty at the plea bargin in hopes of a reduced charge. I think I understand LOL

WSF

WSF
They didnt make my husband make a plea at first (its been 12 months now since the crimes were commited) they asked him to make a "NO PLEA", and thats what he has been doing. Just means it goes up to the higher courts to a jury though. The DA tried to deal with him why he was "psychotic" and his attorney told him to "just plead guilty", but i called him on his cell phone, and I could tell he was psychotic, and had some other attorneys step in to shut it down. It was just there way of doing things. They were rude and told me it was none of my business what my husband plead, and I said, as his carer (the government has made me his official carer) that he was my responsibility, and even though on tape, he said "I will just plead guilty" the judge looked like a big grandpa, and he was allowed new legal representation... thank goodness.
ScaredMom
There is another kind of plea, it is Not Guilty by ways of insanity (Diminished Capacity) but as Nature said, the system is set up for them. If they plead this, and have been found guilty of the crimes, its like enterenting a not guilty plea, if a jury finds them guilty, and sometimes the sentencing can be harsher, cause you have basically told the courts you had an "insanity episode" and then the DA argues well, cause you went insane once, you "could be" dangerous to the community, and then the sentencing can be worse than pleading Not Guilty or Guilty. You have to pray that the jury is sympathetic, and the the Not guilty by ways of insanity, is found, rather than a guilty verdict.
There needs to be solid and better laws for people with a mental illness. They say there is, under the mental health act, but the mental health act has so many loopholes, that the DA knows how to get around.
I am so glad that you started this topic, as its been really good discussing all this. Its been going around my head now for weeks.

Kyla: You are SO right. There is such a need for changes to the system to protect people with mental illness. I don't see that happening under the current administration--and it is a travesty.

I just got a lovely letter today and alot of information from the Mental Health Fellowship, do you have any groups like that there? I told them my whole story this week, and I have ALOT of good contacts over mental health and the court systems. I just wanted to share that, i thought it was another step in the right direction. :)

Thank you all so much for the good information. I do not want to actually overturn the criminal part of the case over, but I do want to overturn the part of the case where they took his car. He just gave it to them to get out of their, but I had given his lawyer a bunch of documents showing that I had given my son a lot of money towards the car. The lawyer was supposed to file to get me the car, or at least get some of the money back, but he said my son just signed it away, so he did not try to stop him. I am just sick at this. When I first hired the lawyer, he said it was unheard of to try to seize a car over my son stealing from coin machines. He could not believe the state even tried. I still do not even know what if any evidence they had against my son, so I really can't say if he should have plead guilty, but I do know that he was not in any position to make good decissions and I was not allowed to have any information on the case. At this point I did go ahead and write the lawyer and tell him my concerns. I have also written a letter to the state bar, but I will not mail that until I hear what the attorney is going to do. I will give him a chance to defend himself, even though he and the court never gave me a chance to speak.

As I am reading all over this information again, I think I have decided to go ahead and file some sort of suit to overturn the civil case where they took my son's car. I do not have the money for an attorney. Can anyone tell me how I go about filing an appeal myself? If I could get the car back, or at least some of my money, I could pay an attorney. I also am having trouble getting back my son's personal items from the car. I spoke to the lawyer and the cop in charge of the evidence and they both said I could have it, but they won't send it to me. I asked them to send it to me COD and I would pay the charges, and they said they would, but everytime I call they say they don't have time. My son had all of his clothes and a very nice jacket and watch and I quilt that I made for him myself. I really want those items back but i think the people up there just like playing games and hurting the families of people. I really do believe that. I am not asking that my son not be punished. I am just asking that the punishement be just.

ScaredMom
They will try and catch you anyway they can. They are so corrupt sometimes. They asked me to give them the deed of my house to get my husband bail, and I was like NO WAY... I mean I totally trust him, but he is schizophrenic, so I wasnt going to risk my house to them, as I just thought they would find any excuse to put me and our kids on the street. I made a deal and handed his US passport over, but that wasnt enough, he was no longer a flight risk, but they felt my house would be plenty.
I ended up dealing with it in Supreme court, and had to hand over nothing
Dont let them bully you, I agree, file something.