View Full Version : Institutionalized - What does it mean in your relationship?


CoNpal
07-14-2010, 04:16 PM
I have another thread going and Babi brought up the *I* word. INSTITUTIONALIZED

How does this come out in your man's behavior?

With my guy, it crept out last weekend when we got in an argument. I felt like he came at me real hard like he would another inmate. He corrected himself and apologized but it made me realize that he is probably going to have more issues when released and I need to understand them better. He'll have been in 15 years when he gets out.

What does your guy do that shows he is institutionalized?

GeorgesWifey
07-14-2010, 04:30 PM
nothing yet have not visited since may and that was when he was still in county...he sticks to himself from what i know mostly

terrysangel
07-14-2010, 04:33 PM
My husband has tried real hard to not become Institutionalized. I know it sounds crazy but he doesn't want to get comfortable because that is what traps many of these inmates. They get used to being told what to do, when to do it, how to do it, etc. and then have a difficult time functioning in the free world.

CoNpal
07-14-2010, 04:37 PM
My husband has tried real hard to not become Institutionalized. I know it sounds crazy but he doesn't want to get comfortable because that is what traps many of these inmates. They get used to being told what to do, when to do it, how to do it, etc. and then have a difficult time functioning in the free world.

My guy says the same thing but, you know what? HE's institutionalized. I think there are things that can be done to help slow it but nobody is immune. At least, nobody that's in for more than 5 years.

Hisoneandonly
07-14-2010, 05:05 PM
Nothing yet, though I know that is one thing he fears becoming institutionalized. Its something I try to watch for but we only see each other once a month and talk once a week. The rest the time is through letter.

akaptrosa
07-14-2010, 05:33 PM
He shows little to no emotion upon first seeing me at visit. It use to hurt my feelings bad, but after understanding more, I don't get upset anymore. He looks at me like we are still living together and I just walked out of the bathroom, while I'm all cheesy and excited. Usually about 5 minutes into visit he gets a perma smile going on. :D It takes him time to show his emotions. I think he is so use to holding his "poker face" in there, that he doesn't know how to snap out of it. Or that "It's me!" you can let your guard down! :)

Good question! I'm curious to hear more stories!

retired - 666
07-14-2010, 06:16 PM
He shows little to no emotion upon first seeing me at visit.

Mine does the same thing. Always has.

A sign to me is when they say...''im scared to leave this place"...."Ill be lost out there".

bssugafoot
07-14-2010, 06:17 PM
I agree with some of the other posts... they don't seem thrilled to see you at first but I believe that it is their way of keeping us protected from the "Institutionalized Mentality". I mean my boo says that it something that the system does to their thought process and being their good thing (piece of happiness, their women), I don't think they want to jeopardize getting their glimpse of happiness taken away. The most mellow guy can lash out after being there, but I think our boos need an innocent person to talk about their experience when they come home because I constantly hear "you just wouldn't understand what goes on in here sometimes". Inmates steal other inmates mail...to say the least I am sure there are more major things that cause them to build a wall in which has to be knocked down before they return to us. I guess we have to support them just as hard when they return to us as we did while they were there so they can make it through still. The philosophy is to rehabilate but in all reality in some cases the system continues the cruel and unusual punishment and release them and then we must still rehabilate them with more than love and understanding. The person that walked in is not always the person that walks out. So pray for patience and unconditional love to help rehabilate your love one when they come!

iloveyoumore
07-14-2010, 09:43 PM
I don't believe there is any way to avoid becoming institutionalized if you have been in for a significant amount of time. My husband notices it within himself sometimes. He is uncomfortable around people when they come in for events from the outside. When he has had to go out for medical reasons he feels like an alien. I notice it in him because everything has to be figured out by the end of a phone call (must be a dead issue before you can move on to the next thing) if we have a disagreement. I'm sure there are many other things........he tries really hard to fight it but you just can't fight some things.

Miss_A
07-14-2010, 10:30 PM
He shows little to no emotion upon first seeing me at visit. It use to hurt my feelings bad, but after understanding more, I don't get upset anymore. He looks at me like we are still living together and I just walked out of the bathroom, while I'm all cheesy and excited. Usually about 5 minutes into visit he gets a perma smile going on. :D It takes him time to show his emotions. I think he is so use to holding his "poker face" in there, that he doesn't know how to snap out of it. Or that "It's me!" you can let your guard down! :)

Good question! I'm curious to hear more stories!

My man is the EXACT same way!

I brought this up at one of our recent visits. I told him that he doesn't crack a smile or anything the moment he steps in the visiting room as he walks up to the guards desk to check in or as he walks up to me. He most definitely has his "poker face" on. It isn't until he sits down that he loosens up. I asked him about it and he jokingly said, "What? You don't like my swagg?" I told him he could save that swagg for when he's in the back with those men. But I know why he does it. While waiting for my man to come in, I watch the other inmates as they walk in the visiting room and most of them do the exact same thing. So he's not alone.

I think, for the most part, it's a defense mechanism. That and the fact that he was in handcuffs while waiting to be strip searched before he came in the room.

Tiny xo
07-14-2010, 10:48 PM
until he makes eye contact with me, he has no emotion on his face. sometimes i would see him looking like he wanted to hurt someone, LOL, while he was walking in & checking in at the front desk. then once his eyes meet mine BOOM huge smile. :D

he doesn't really relax until he sits down. even then, he glances at every single person who walks by. he takes a few looks around the entire room, almost like he's examining it, & he looks behind him a lot too. also when there are a lot of people filling the visiting room he gets quiet & tells me that he feels like everyone is staring at him. :(

lovesick33
07-14-2010, 11:33 PM
Well i no longer feel alone. I used to think all kinds of crazy stuff when he came out to visit. He would come out looking so serious until he actually reached out his arms to give that 5second hug and 2second kiss of course they are watching like there is a certain amount of seconds that goes by until it is considered illegal. I definately told him one day he is institutionalized. I mean i knew him before he went in there when we were younger and there is definately something missing. That place has stolen his spirit i truly believe that its not just the poker face and trying to be defensive it is who he has actually become. He has been in there the last 13yrs and he is not the same it really takes a strong minded person not to loose their sanity in that type of enviroment. No telling what the hell he has seen and been through while incarcirated with the worst of the worst. I wish i could make it all go away but the reality of it all it will be with all of them for the rest of their lives it is a constant battle day in and out. I love him so much i just wish i could do more than the system allows me to. I dont know about some of you women out there sometimes i feel helpless in his struggle even though i am faithfully sticking by him. You know its hard to deal with him he doesnt like to share his thoughts all the time some days are good when he smiles all through out the day on our visits and you cant get him to shut up which is very pleasurable that means he is in a good spirit. Other days he just stares at me with this expressionless look of pure emptiness thats when i realized this place has his spirit. I will continue the fight with him all the way through and you ladies out there you do the same they need us in their lives to continue to feel they are actually still alive,loved, and not forgotten.

BlueEyedEllie
07-15-2010, 06:42 AM
My husband has tried real hard to not become Institutionalized. I know it sounds crazy but he doesn't want to get comfortable because that is what traps many of these inmates. They get used to being told what to do, when to do it, how to do it, etc. and then have a difficult time functioning in the free world.

Mine has said the same thing but you know what??saying and believing certain things does NOT prevent being institutionalized.Anyway,yes i have noticed this in a few areas.One being,i've gotten to know some people from his church.Also,the men at the HWH i know on a "hello" type basis.so,to make conversation,when marc and i are on the phone,i'll ask about certain people and this about puts me thru the roof,he'll answer,"I don't know"."It's none of my business."CONSTANTLY.i've tried to tell him when my girlfriends talk on the phone we discuss details,etc.I tell him he's no longer in prison and he can talk freely.but his motto is if it's not his business he has nothing to say about it.(though he made it thru 7 years with only one fight so maybe he has a point??!!:rolleyes:)I have honestly never met such a closed mouth man in all of my life!!:rolleyes:also,he still prefers my homecooked meals to the point we have yet to eat out at a nice restaurant.He has adjusted amazingly well but you can tell by a few things that prison is still in him a little bit.GREAT thread!!:thumbsup:Jmo,any man who's been in prison for more than a year will show signs of being institutionalized.I say that because if i was locked up for more than a year it would def. affect me in some ways!!

BlueEyedEllie
07-15-2010, 06:48 AM
I read all the posts and there must have been something wrong with my man when he was locked up because the times i visited the second he saw me his face would ALWAYS light up with a HUGE kool aide grin.every single time.:lovestruck::heart:

Warrior Wife
07-15-2010, 07:00 AM
My husband has tried real hard to not become Institutionalized.

It happens whether he "tries" or not.

It is not something that occurs on a conscious level. It is subconcious, subtle, and complicated.

If you want to understand it, you can educate yourself by doing an online search and reading the psychological studies & articles that are available.

In the meantime, please try to accept the fact that if you decide to be in a committed relationship with someone who has spent time locked in a cage, there are going to be some very serious issues to deal with following that person's release...and that those issues will NOT be healed quickly or easily, and will impact you BOTH.

WW

ohiolove
07-15-2010, 08:43 AM
I googled per "instructed" ;) by Warrior Wife and found a lot of interesting reading material that I'm so gonna look deeper in to! thank you. :thumbsup:

I also found what I have posted below, and since the original question was
"Institutionalized...what does it mean in your relationship?" I don't think it's OT. It's something I've never really thought about in terms of "prisonization/institutionalization" and I kinda wanna see what you ladies think. :)


Authors: Comfort, Megan

Doing Time Together: The ‘Secondary Prisonization’ of Women with Incarcerated Partners

Abstract:
Historically, discussions of crime and punishment have focused on an individual lawbreaker and the institutions charged with monitoring and sanctioning him (or, more recently, her). However, over the last decade this scope has widened, with scholars increasingly turning their attention to the impact of incarceration on inmates’ family, friends, and neighborhoods. In this paper, I draw on ethnographic fieldwork, in-depth interviews, and survey research conducted with women visiting their partners at northern California’s San Quentin State Prison to examine the repercussive effects of maintaining a relationship with a man behind bars.

Through their efforts to “do time” with their incarcerated partners, legally innocent women come into close contact with the penal facility and as a result are obliged to comply with the institutional regulation of their appearance and comportment when they are at the penitentiary and to permit correctional supervision and censorship within their homes. Returning to the classic theories of Donald Clemmer’s prisonization and Gresham Sykes’ pains of imprisonment, I argue that the female partners of inmates undergo “secondary prisonization,” a less potent but still powerful form of socialization to carceral norms brought about by prolonged subjection to the surveillance, control, and dictates of the correctional institution.




Original text: http://www.allacademic.com//meta/p_mla_apa_research_citation/2/0/0/8/3/pages200838/p200838-1.php

Wobabi
07-15-2010, 10:02 AM
Here is a link to a thread I started in generalprison talk.
Good info here
http://www.prisontalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=431506&referrerid=50054

S&O8873
07-15-2010, 12:03 PM
Mine shows it by just falling to pieces if I even show slight anger towards him, like he's desperately afraid I'll leave him and he'll be "all alone forever". It's really heartbreaking.

See, this is his second bid and his very first happened from 2003 to 2008, and he had a girl he was engaged to in 2003 (not me) who, after four years together and accepting a proposal, just said, "I can't deal with this, goodbye" within days of his arrest and up and left him. And his family lives in another state. All his "friends" were basically scattered to the four winds and never wrote, called, or visited. So the poor thing sat there in prison alone for five years, only getting weekend visits with his family a couple of times a year, when they could afford to fly up and stay here for a few days. And it just... I don't know, it DID something to him, you know?

I mean, if I get angry with him and he sees that look on my face, he gets so worried and sad. Like once we had a little argument, not even that big of a deal, and we weren't living together then so I said, "Look, we can't agree to disagree on this subject so I will be taking myself home to shower and get ready for bed". I went on home to my place and I got up the next morning and the mail box flag was up, and I was like, "WTF?" and went to see because nobody had any letters going out. Well, some time in the night he had come and put a letter in the mailbox and put the flag up so I'd notice it, and he wrote things like how sorry he was and he can't lose me because he can't live without me and "Don't forget me now, when you said those things to me it just about killed me baby". It just broke my heart and I really believe it's where he was just crushed and broken going through the system all by himself like that for five years so he's terribly afraid of being alone again.

PTO-79211
07-15-2010, 12:42 PM
My husband is definitely institutionalized and I never really saw it until we were at family visit. He didnt act differently....he wasnt cold or hard or anything like that...but he did say that on the last day he was feeling anxious because he had been gone from the yard to long and felt like he needed to get back there. He was surprised to have felt this way and it caused great concern for both of us. He expressed to me that it had nothing to do with me..or not enjoying our time together...just years of incarceration and being out of the "normal" element for 3 days. He also told me that he didnt want to feel that way and wanted help...so with the help of some wonderful friends...I got some information to help with the adjustment of prison life and life out here. It is for both my husband and myself...because lets face it...I need to know how to approach this too. Its going to be work from both of us.

It was a huge reality check for both of us...but I think acknowledgment is the first step in trying to help.

Tina
07-15-2010, 01:59 PM
I agree that if you are doing enough time there is no way to avoid becoming insitutionalized. Me and mine are going to have sooo many issues with this once he is finally able to come home to me. That's okay though. God has brought us this far, he can bring us through that too!

Warrior Wife
07-15-2010, 02:02 PM
Dana is a warm & outgoing person, in general. He was well respected in prison and a role model for other men. No one who knows Dana would ever describe him as "weak." I am sharing this so that you might be able to understand that even STRONG MEN SUCCUMB TO INSTITUTIONALIZATION.

Also, most men (if not all) will at least TRY to HIDE or MASK the evidence of institutionalization, with varying degrees of "success."

Evidence of institutionalization for Dana looks like this:

ONE: It is often difficult for Dana to share his feelings. He is used to keeping his thoughts, feelings & needs to himself. He fears that admission of both vulnerability and shortcomings will be perceived as weakness.

TWO: It is difficult for Dana to have a LENGTHY conversation about anything. He says he is not used to talking for long periods of time, and attributes this to being locked up.

THREE: He recently admitted to me that he often feels fearful of failure and of being inadequate. This was a HUGE BREAKTHROUGH in terms of communication & trust on his part. I was DEEPLY HONORED by his openness with me.

FOUR: Dana needs a lot of praise & reassurance, even though he appears confident in public.

FIVE: He is fearful of both rejection and abandonment.

SIX: Mood swings are common for Dana, and he can easily fall into silence or depression for several hours or even a few days. These episodes are often triggered by conversations that remind him of what he LACKS (a career, money, an education) because of the poor choices he made that led to his spending most of his adult life in prison.

These are the things I can think of right away. I'm sure there's more. Every single thing I've written impacts our relationship, and has challenged ME in ways I NEVER ANTICIPATED prior to Dana's homecoming.

Dana has been home since August 2009.....

I cannot emphasize this fact enough: The effects of institutionalization are NOT overcome quickly or easily. They are more than skin deep. They take root inside a man's psyche and require real effort (introspection, counseling, love, patience, support) to overcome.

Though I NEVER would have believed them if someone told me this while Dana was down, dealing with the aftermath of his homecoming has been more difficult, chaotic & disruptive to my life than riding with him during his prison bid.

If you think all your challenges will be OVER when he walks out of those gates, you are mistaken, sisters. The challenges continue, but in a new and different form.

And as difficult as this is to say, I will say it anyhow...it takes more than LOVE to make it through. It also takes patience, tenacity, truthfulness, maturity, and the ability to know when enough is enough.

I will step down from my soap box now.....:rolleyes:.....

xo,

WW

crazycasey183
07-15-2010, 02:04 PM
He doesn't show any excitment for anything, you said thats how you have to do your time but other than that nothing so far but I'll find out more this Saturday when he gets released, lol

filmmaker101
07-15-2010, 02:08 PM
maybe it is because he is in a medium minimum facility where they are free to do a lot of things, but my boo doesn't show any signs of being institutionalized whatsoever... his institution, I compare it to being away for an all boys boarding school with some shady boys that go to the school...

the only thing he says is he doesn't like crowds and stuff... we will see what happens when he gets out, because I want to take him out to a few places... I like to dance

HisSugarPie
07-15-2010, 05:33 PM
until he makes eye contact with me, he has no emotion on his face. sometimes i would see him looking like he wanted to hurt someone, LOL, while he was walking in & checking in at the front desk. then once his eyes meet mine BOOM huge smile. :D

he doesn't really relax until he sits down. even then, he glances at every single person who walks by. he takes a few looks around the entire room, almost like he's examining it, & he looks behind him a lot too. also when there are a lot of people filling the visiting room he gets quiet & tells me that he feels like everyone is staring at him. :(


MRD definitely acts a little like this. He is in a SHU facility and visits are behind glass. When he get's into his cell for visits he starts smiling, but not before the guards shut the door and he turns to face me to get his cuffs off. He also checks out everyone that walks by in the visiting room. He is still a chatter box, lol, but I don't mind that.

mrsdennis
07-15-2010, 05:38 PM
until he makes eye contact with me, he has no emotion on his face. sometimes i would see him looking like he wanted to hurt someone, LOL, while he was walking in & checking in at the front desk. then once his eyes meet mine BOOM huge smile. :D

he doesn't really relax until he sits down. even then, he glances at every single person who walks by. he takes a few looks around the entire room, almost like he's examining it, & he looks behind him a lot too. also when there are a lot of people filling the visiting room he gets quiet & tells me that he feels like everyone is staring at him. :(

LOl the same here he looks so mean until he sits down and see's my smile :thumbsup:

CoNpal
07-15-2010, 06:00 PM
Some excerpts from the link in Wobabi's thread:


Thus, prisoners do not "choose" do succumb to it or not, and few people who have become institutionalized are aware that it has happened to them. Fewer still consciously decide that they are going to willingly allow the transformation to occur.




Thus, institutionalization or prisonization renders some people so dependent on external constraints that they gradually lose the capacity to rely on internal organization and self-imposed personal limits to guide their actions and restrain their conduct.

Kenneth_Lorie
07-15-2010, 06:40 PM
I'm only able to speak for myself and my ex. He did alot of years and he was a hard man and unable to show emotions well. He would blow up and yell real easy. I would tell him to quit yelling and he would say he was not yelling. Face it ladies men just communicate on another level them we do. Cuddling and things like that were very hard for me. He would do it but you could always feel how tense he was doing it. So I feel all men to some degree come out institutionalized to some degree. The longer they are in the more it is. Alot depends on the man and his personality and what he goes thru while locked up.

Pretty Toes
07-16-2010, 08:43 AM
Dana is a warm & outgoing person, in general. He was well respected in prison and a role model for other men. No one who knows Dana would ever describe him as "weak." I am sharing this so that you might be able to understand that even STRONG MEN SUCCUMB TO INSTITUTIONALIZATION.

Also, most men (if not all) will at least TRY to HIDE or MASK the evidence of institutionalization, with varying degrees of "success."

Evidence of institutionalization for Dana looks like this:

ONE: It is often difficult for Dana to share his feelings. He is used to keeping his thoughts, feelings & needs to himself. He fears that admission of both vulnerability and shortcomings will be perceived as weakness.

TWO: It is difficult for Dana to have a LENGTHY conversation about anything. He says he is not used to talking for long periods of time, and attributes this to being locked up.

THREE: He recently admitted to me that he often feels fearful of failure and of being inadequate. This was a HUGE BREAKTHROUGH in terms of communication & trust on his part. I was DEEPLY HONORED by his openness with me.

FOUR: Dana needs a lot of praise & reassurance, even though he appears confident in public.

FIVE: He is fearful of both rejection and abandonment.

SIX: Mood swings are common for Dana, and he can easily fall into silence or depression for several hours or even a few days. These episodes are often triggered by conversations that remind him of what he LACKS (a career, money, an education) because of the poor choices he made that led to his spending most of his adult life in prison.

These are the things I can think of right away. I'm sure there's more. Every single thing I've written impacts our relationship, and has challenged ME in ways I NEVER ANTICIPATED prior to Dana's homecoming.

Dana has been home since August 2009.....

I cannot emphasize this fact enough: The effects of institutionalization are NOT overcome quickly or easily. They are more than skin deep. They take root inside a man's psyche and require real effort (introspection, counseling, love, patience, support) to overcome.

Though I NEVER would have believed them if someone told me this while Dana was down, dealing with the aftermath of his homecoming has been more difficult, chaotic & disruptive to my life than riding with him during his prison bid.

If you think all your challenges will be OVER when he walks out of those gates, you are mistaken, sisters. The challenges continue, but in a new and different form.

And as difficult as this is to say, I will say it anyhow...it takes more than LOVE to make it through. It also takes patience, tenacity, truthfulness, maturity, and the ability to know when enough is enough.

I will step down from my soap box now.....:rolleyes:.....

xo,

WW


thanks for this. It was well written and I didnt feel you were on a soapbox!! I appreciate your post!!

timswife4ever
07-16-2010, 08:57 AM
I read all the posts and there must have been something wrong with my man when he was locked up because the times i visited the second he saw me his face would ALWAYS light up with a HUGE kool aide grin.every single time.:lovestruck::heart:

I was just thinking the same thing about my man. He always looks excited to see me when I go to visit.

Temeron0926
07-16-2010, 10:34 PM
Ray and I have talked about this at length. I had to ask him, as I needed his "take" on it. Ray feels he is institutionalized to a degree, how could he not be after 16 years (this time) continuious time, and also having served a total of 24 years (3 one bid, 5 another) thus far behind bars. By the time he gets out he will have spent a total of about 30 years in prison. He is 48 years old, will be 51 when he gets out, that is over HALF his life behind bars.

He is extremely intelligent (tho extremely stupid at times, hence being in prison), and has a good grip on "reality" He knows the signs of being institutionalized, he admits to having some, and I am sure we will find others when he is released. He told me the ONE thing he wants me to promise (and I have) him is that I won't LET him blow me off when I feel he needs a reality check. He knows what kinds of behaviors he needs to watch for, he has done this before, he is a lot older and wiser this time around, and he is in a more stable relationship then he was previously. He believes, and I don't know I am with him on this one, that since he has me, he WANTS to be a better man. I am not sure how to take that. I like that he wants to be a better man, I am not sure I like being the cause of that, BUT, if it works, who am I to argue????

We have talked about it many times, and we will talk about it many more before he gets out. As I said in another thread, on another board. We can only take it one day at a time.

loveslady
07-17-2010, 12:57 PM
Well my bf has been in from age 18 to 27 with only 7 months of that was he free. I feel he is instituitonalized to a degree, when i asked him he said he had never really thought about it. ways that i have picked up on so far is:

1-he likes to sit with his back to the wall, i jus discovered this at a visit and he scans the room periodically for his surroundings, i think he does this more than the other guys as he came from a usp where things are usually a little worst now he is at an fci.
2-he has a hard time making decisions especially about what he will eat, i generally have to pick at visitation, because when i give him choices he just says it doesn't matter.
3-he will flip the moment something doesn't go his way, almost childlike at times, and he is a crafty manipulator, he as a great talk game that he will use to get what he wants, i think he uses it in there with other guys to get things done
4-he cleans excessively body, cell, etc. everything has to be very organized
5-obssessed with working out(i dont mind this one as his body is banging!!)
I WORRY HOW THIS AND OTHER FORMS OF INSTITUIONALIZATION WILL AFFECT HIM ONCE HE COMES HOME, HE DID A GOOD JOB BOUNCING BACK AFTER HIS FIRST BID, HE IMMEDIATELY FOUND WORK, DROVE, BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN THAT ON THE INSIDE HE WASN'T SCARED AND FELT MORE COMFORTABLE ON THE INSIDE, I JUST HOPE HE CAN OVERCOME IT AND WONT FIND HIMSELF INCARCERATED FOR A 3RD TIME.

mannyswomen
07-17-2010, 02:30 PM
until he makes eye contact with me, he has no emotion on his face. sometimes i would see him looking like he wanted to hurt someone, LOL, while he was walking in & checking in at the front desk. then once his eyes meet mine BOOM huge smile. :D

he doesn't really relax until he sits down. even then, he glances at every single person who walks by. he takes a few looks around the entire room, almost like he's examining it, & he looks behind him a lot too. also when there are a lot of people filling the visiting room he gets quiet & tells me that he feels like everyone is staring at him. :(

My man is always looking around the visiting room too. It use to get on my nerves until I relized that most of them do it.

Ronsbaby
07-17-2010, 08:06 PM
my baby comes out and tries so hard to act all "cool" I was just expressing this to him 2 weeks ago -- but he comes out all actin cool like yea my girl his here but i'm not gonna show how happy i am, then 2 seconds later there's that grin, that cheesy grinny grin of all grins, lol samething at end of visit when he's standin agains the wall actin all back to mr cool -- then he winks, then the smile brakes, then the blowin me kisses and tellin me he loves me and grinin still then back to straight face n i blow him a kiss then he all hand back out of his pocket winks and blows me a kiss lol ----

sometimes though his being institutionalized does keep him from expressing most feelings and emotions easily -- they do come out and show, but sometimes i have to work to get him to go ahead and be open the way he wants so badly to be with me, and we've talked bout this too that so often it's so hard for him to get to that point (when on phone and emails) but not so much in visits cuz he see's me and melts and opens right up -- but with the phone and emails they are quick and then with his having to shut that off right away as soon as he hangs that phone up and or sends that email it's hard for him to go back to that no expressions, no feelings -- but other then that i think all is ok with us despite his being institutionalized and he's not newbie either ---only thing is, hes not used to having someone on the outside while he's down -- especially a woman he's in a relationship with! --so that part's new -- he's had friends out here -- including me years and years ago when we were basically kids well i was still a minor anyways --
his thing too is that if he's worried, he becomes scared, and then scared turns to anger cuz so often that's the only emotions they have in there is anger -- now while he might be worried / scared then mad -- he'll show he's mad but it's not something he's honestly mad bout, so once he's over it he will mention bout how stupid it is to be mad when he's mot even mad, but that that's been the only emotion for so long that he's learning to try to show worried or scared when it comes to me -- but also he's worried and scared bout whatever and he can't show that in there so by the time he can finialy talk to me he's been actin mad in there ya know? it is deffinately a learning process for them and for us ----