View Full Version : Is non-alcoholic beer still alcohol to probation?


mama2princesses
07-07-2010, 03:00 AM
this is silly and unimportant but someone spiked my curiosity and now I have to know! LOL

A good friend of mine is REALLY into beer pong and is always inviting us over to play. I told him we can no longer hang out there because my man cannot drink with his probation for the next 4 years and we will NOT be risking it!

He said fine we'll pick up some Odouls and have fun!


now if you are DECENT at beer pong you dont drink a lot anyhow... (and ALL the cups filled on one side is like 1 and a half cans at the most) and being that non-alcoholic beer has so little alcohol I'm assuming its ok.... but who knows.

***we are NOT planning on doing this. I am just up late and night and randomly curious. LOL****


Also now I just thought of a new question. His probation sheet says he cant drink nor be in a place that alcohol is the primary sales. That means we can still go to BBQ's or weddings or whatever that have alcohol served as long as he does not drink right? We are not big drinkers AT ALL but a lot of the family events or friends things do have beer. His birthday party wont but I cant tell other people what they can or cant serve so I'm not sure if we should just avoid the situations for the next 4 or not

Igor Louis
07-07-2010, 10:29 PM
First and foremost, I'd recommend he run those questions past his supervising Officer.
I can only answer with what I told my Offenders:
- Non-alcoholic beer still contains alcohol, although only less than 0.05% by volume. It was still forbidden to individuals on supervision.
- Any event where alcohol is served at is off limits, whether that's by sales or by consumption.

babyguz1
07-23-2010, 02:58 PM
First and foremost, I'd recommend he run those questions past his supervising Officer.
I can only answer with what I told my Offenders:
- Non-alcoholic beer still contains alcohol, although only less than 0.05% by volume. It was still forbidden to individuals on supervision.
- Any event where alcohol is served at is off limits, whether that's by sales or by consumption.
would that include eating out at a mexican resturant or any resturant that serves alcohol

PaulM
07-23-2010, 03:02 PM
would that include eating out at a mexican resturant or any resturant that serves alcohol

I would like to second this question - does that mean that I cannot eat at 80% of the restaurants in town because she is on probation?

Igor Louis
07-23-2010, 05:32 PM
I can only answer, again, with what I told my Offenders...the specific supervising Officer should always have the final say:
1) If they're checking your ID when you're going through the door, you don't need to be there.
2) If you're in Applebee's or TGIFriday's with family or friends and someone is drinking a beer at the table, it doesn't need to be you and you don't need to have any type of residence you share with that person. The reason for that was I can't count the number of times the girlfriend (or boyfriend) would get intoxicated, they'd get home with the Offender and then a Domestic would break out. Which invariably leads to revocation of supervision.

gods mercy
07-23-2010, 05:37 PM
NO alchole at all and the funny part is you can not use mouth wash with alchole, how stupid is that,

Igor Louis
07-23-2010, 07:33 PM
Well, actually it's the drinking of mouthwash with alcohol that presents the problem. If it's not being drank, mouthwash will not set off an interlock in a vehicle, nor will it test positive for alcohol on any type of alcohol test, whether urine, blood or breath, within 10-15 minutes of said test.
But yes, drinking mouthwash with alcohol is bad.

Marbran
08-26-2010, 05:57 PM
I can only answer, again, with what I told my Offenders...the specific supervising Officer should always have the final say:
1) If they're checking your ID when you're going through the door, you don't need to be there.
2) If you're in Applebee's or TGIFriday's with family or friends and someone is drinking a beer at the table, it doesn't need to be you and you don't need to have any type of residence you share with that person. The reason for that was I can't count the number of times the girlfriend (or boyfriend) would get intoxicated, they'd get home with the Offender and then a Domestic would break out. Which invariably leads to revocation of supervision.

Woah, woah, woah.....!!

I have to ask...from where do POs get their authority to have the "final say?" You guys work under strict rules yourselves, don't forget. If the person's probation terms are that he abstain from drinking and avoid establishments where the serving of alcohol is the primary business (bars, taverns, clubs, etc.), it seems to me that the terms are pretty clear. No probationer could ever be required to avoid any restaurant, concert, theater, opera house, airplane, family gathering, you name it, where alcohol is present. That is absurd. And any PO that pushes that line is working beyond their legal authority.

As a probationer myself that lives under the two mentioned conditions, my wife can certainly have alcohol in the house, and we can have friends over that are drinking, and I can eat in any restaurant I want. If I drink, or if I go to a bar, that is a violation of my probation terms. And the PO would have to catch me or suspect such activity, and then require a urinalysis that shows alcohol in my system, in order to be grounds for a PV.

mama2princesses....dine away!

PS: O'Doul's is labeled 'non-alcoholic' for a reason. You'd have to drink gallons of the stuff in mere minutes to ever feel the alcoholic effects. You would die of hyponatremia (water poisoning) even before you felt a buzz. And drinking O'Doul's will never hit the threshold of error on a pee test. However, drinking O'Doul's can lead a drinker back to the real stuff, and should thus be avoided.

So mama, keep your man away from the beer pong table. ;)

Igor Louis
08-26-2010, 11:49 PM
It all depends on your supervising Officer, and the rules and guidelines that are put in place by the state you reside in. In most states I know of where alcohol is forbidden to be consumed by the Offender, that also would restrict alcohol from the home. If you haven't cleared those items with your supervising Officer, then having them in the home, regardless of your consumption of them or not, you're risking violation.

Marbran
08-27-2010, 04:49 PM
If a p/p were required to stay away from any establishment or situation where alcohol is present, wouldn't that have to be stipulated in the sentencing papers? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought that only judges can issue stipulations, not the PO.

VA PO
08-27-2010, 05:02 PM
No, POs can alter the conditions of probation. Typically, it's the standard conditions and the already enumerated special conditions. So, if a condition was "not to drink alcohol to excess", I could alter it to say "not to drink alcohol". The offender then gets a copy of the new conditions so they know the new terms. However, we don't just add new conditions.

Marbran
08-27-2010, 05:11 PM
Okay, that's good to know. So there could be a special condition that says something like "avoid all establishments that serve alcohol"? I don't recall seeing something like that on my form, but it could be there, or on another form that I didn't receive.

I guess my question is to what degree are POs given the latitude to adjust conditions at their whim? That sounds like a dangerous situation if you have a PO that is less than honorable and fair. It also sounds extremely outside the power boundaries of our legal system. If that is the case, then a PO has more power than a judge. Does a judge have to approve the change in conditions?

VA PO
08-27-2010, 05:19 PM
Don't forget that Igor is in NM, and he may deal with a specific caseload that is prone to alcohol abuse or alcohol-related offenses, or maybe that is part of their standard conditions, I don't know.

We don't just adjust conditions on a whim. We have to have a reason for it. For example, I could not just make that adjustment I noted above for no reason. If the person was continuously positive for alcohol, or was on DWI 3rd, for example, then I could. But I have to have a justifiable reason.

Marbran
08-27-2010, 05:32 PM
Good, that's what I was hoping to hear. That would be a scary prospect if a PO could change conditions without some sort of checks and balances in place. Of course, I assume the offender retains some options for recourse, for challenging the change, perhaps a board petition or the like. Is that correct?

And I promise I'll stop boring everyone with my naive questions. LOL

Igor Louis
08-27-2010, 09:45 PM
There is a standard condition on both parolees and probationers regarding the consumption of alcohol...don't do it. On about 85% of the caseloads, there's a special condition regarding entering an establishment where the sale of alcohol is the primary sale item. While I was in the Intensive Supervision Unit, there could be no alcohol present in the home. After I had an Offender drink himself into oblivion with cooking sherry, and then assault his girlfriend and her 2 year old daughter to the point where he picked up several new "serious violent offense" felonies, I included anything with alcohol in it as being restricted from the home. I never had an arrest or sanction thrown back onto my plate where those were the allegations, whether sole or one of several. If you came into my world, then you had done something deserving of the attention and special care I gave you. The Offenders can petition for a change if they like, but that will involve going to Hearing in front of the Judge, or writing a letter to the Parole Board. I had several try, but they never were successful.

Colorado_Lawyer
08-29-2010, 02:20 AM
I know that the OP posed this as an hypothetical question, but I put this into the category of do not try to play these games. Near Beer is still alcoholic; therefore, do not drink it if a term of your parole/probation is no alcoholic beverages. This is like the problem drinker who promises to only let a soda can touch his lips from now on, and then "keeps" his promise by pouring his whiskey into a coke can. This is playing games. Don't do it. Period.

robinbanks
08-29-2010, 12:26 PM
I know that the OP posed this as an hypothetical question, but I put this into the category of do not try to play these games. Near Beer is still alcoholic; therefore, do not drink it if a term of your parole/probation is no alcoholic beverages. This is like the problem drinker who promises to only let a soda can touch his lips from now on, and then "keeps" his promise by pouring his whiskey into a coke can. This is playing games. Don't do it. Period.
True, but I think we can all agree a PO or judge that would violate a guy for drinking half percent beer is just an ass. If they send a guy to jail for drinking O'Douls then they're looking for a reason to send the guy to jail anyhow.

Colorado_Lawyer
08-29-2010, 02:03 PM
I am not sure I agree. The "ass" would be the parolee who was trying to game the system by drinking the near beer. On the other hand, there are desperate alcoholics who parole homeless and broke and are desperate for a drink to stave off the DTs. They will shoplift vanilla and rubbing alcohol and drink it. That is very sad, and throwing them back into incarceration for a parole violation is counterproductive as they need detox and treatment not more incarceration.

True, but I think we can all agree a PO or judge that would violate a guy for drinking half percent beer is just an ass. If they send a guy to jail for drinking O'Douls then they're looking for a reason to send the guy to jail anyhow.

sidewalker
09-12-2010, 09:39 AM
you could always substitute juice for beer.
Play Juice pong.
:D
that way you can play, and not violate the no booze condition of parole/probation.