View Full Version : My brother became gay in prison?


Trista
04-05-2010, 09:53 PM
hello everybody

my brother just got out of a 4 year prison stay. before he went in he was married and has 2 kids. his wife darla divorced him after he got locked up. he has visitation rights but they live in a different state now and are getting that worked out.

he said he "turned gay" in prison and cant see himself being with a woman now. i always thought you are born that way. before he had a wife and kids and we actually have an uncle (my mom brother) who is gay. he never had problems with him growing up and my family i spretty excepting of gay people (we grew up near san francisco for a while) so if he was gay before he wouldnt have to hide it from us his family.

i asked him "josh did you like men before and just didn't tell anybody?" and he says honesty no that if that was the case he would of acted on it then and i believe him (i can usually tell when he is lying).

but how is this even possible? he doesnt know how it happened, he just said now he's gay and before he wasnt and that he is not sure if he will try to become straight again or not. he seemed pretty confused how it happened too.

he said he messed around with one guy and got real close and now he didn't think he wanted to be with women anymore. i dindt ask him any more personal details but i am confused now.

Its very confusing to me. how can a person who has never felt that way become like that?

i love my brother no matter what but i am just confused. i actually am going to family therapy with him next week maybe he will talk about that.

eta: if the homosexuality was there before he got locked up, how could you go 28 years and not notice it?

SpicaRigel
04-05-2010, 10:26 PM
What came to my mind is this... i knew a guy who was married, had children and grandchildren and he didnt know he was gay till he was in his 70's!
He had been an English and Drama teacher on the high school level so im sure he ran into gay kids over the years...i asked him how he could have gone all his life and not know he was attracted to men. He had no idea.
So, what im thinking is that the level of denial must have been so great that they were totally blind to it.
I know, its hard to understand, but this does happen.

$Mrs.Chavez$
04-05-2010, 10:36 PM
wow...omg....well i dated Two guys i Believe are bi-sexual! i never knew they were...until signs started to show...and they started to compliment men on there looks like that's hot! which i find strange...well what i can say is thank-god i was not having sex around that time of my life,but its possible...the two guys i know are in denial...and one of them i believe is really confuse...and comes from a family who are very phobia around gays....so its very possible to deny something and then your stat to believe your st8 until your in a situation and you get turn out!!!

Trista
04-05-2010, 10:54 PM
thank you both. i am going to ask josh to read over here. he might get angry that i researched it and asked a question. haha

SpicaRigel
04-05-2010, 11:13 PM
Why should he be angry?? You love him dont you and are concerned about him...i dont think he should be angry...he is lucky to have you.

Xellena
04-06-2010, 12:12 AM
There is so much I want to say about this subject but it is late and I am exhausted ....therefore I feel I would babble on inchoherently... I will respond more indepth when my fingers can keep up with my brain

Ken
04-06-2010, 04:22 AM
There are MANY men that don`t realize their `gay side` until later in life. I know many men with children that were happily married and had children and then at a point realized that they preferred to be with a man.

I will ALWAYS insist that you are born this way, it is not learned, it is not taught, it is inside you. When it comes out will be different with different people.

Prison had nothing to do with it... if he was not predisposed to this behaviour and feelings then it would not have happened. Prison may have given him the opportunity to live out these feelings or see them for the first time, but the act of being locked up with men did not cause this to happen.

My opinion as a Gay man.

justcurious2009
04-06-2010, 04:43 AM
Maybe because when he was on the outside he didn't want to deal with the shame from his other family members, even though your open minded to it a lot of other family members & even some of his friends may not have been. My heart goes out to anyone faced with this, I've had friends that come out & they weren't so lucky to have have supportive family & friends. More friends were accepting then family but I don't understand how you can go from loving your kid all of its life to shunning it because of a personal choice that they come out with. That's so cruel, I've always told my kids no matter what path they choose I'm still going to love them. My step daughter is bi & I still love her as much as I did before I found out. That would be like your kids turning on you because you don't fit their image of the perfect parent & stop loving you, why would you do that to your child just because they want to be happy with themselves & their lives.

Trista
04-07-2010, 07:33 PM
I showed him he ask me to respond but he didnt want to register he said prison is behind him.


Dear Ken,

Your "opinion as a Gay[sic] man" is reflective of your own situation. I thank you for sharing, but it cannot address the life stories of other people. I can't speak for every man's experience and neither can you, friend. It is true that a lot of people are born gay just the same as a lot of people are born Jewish. You personally were probably born gay. That's fine. But that doesn't mean that all Jews are born that way or that all gay men are born that way. Sorry. You can't speak for everybody, only your own experiences.

There is no one-size-fits-all answer that fits every homosexual person. To say "I will ALWAYS insist that you are born this way, it is not learned, it is not taught," shows an arrogant, self-centered, unwilling-to-learn approach that prevents the speaker from looking at other possibilities beyond what he has directly experienced. In other words, it is a very limiting viewpoint that holds you back from the wider range of human experiences. It leaves you in an intellectual poverty of sorts because you admit that you're unwilling to change your mind.

It's a sad day when one person tries to speak for every man, especially when you don't have that authority (no one has that authority but God himself). You may only speak for your own experience. I believe you were born gay. You owe me the same respect. Thank you for your understanding.

To everyone else: let me be clear. I was with girls from the time I was 15 till I was 24. I went through high school, college, and some graduate school and had ample opportunities to be with guys if I ever wanted to. I thought about it but it just didn't appeal to me in the least. In college my first roommate was a VERY gay dude and he asked me to fool around a couple times. I never did it, because I just wasn't interested. If I was interested you bet I would have participated.

Have you ever heard of an "acquired taste?" This is a psychosocial phenomenon wherein a person may dislike the taste of a particular food, for example, tofu. Many people do not like the taste of tofu when they first encounter it. That is fine. Some people never like it. That is also fine. But for some people, a little while down the road, they may find themselves married to an Asian immigrant and may, in time, actually come to like tofu. That doesn't mean they liked tofu all along! It means they learned to like it. It's true that some people like tofu from birth. But some learn to like it. You have to respect every person's experience.

The tofu analogy isn't perfect, but it points out what is the absurd notion you often hear from politically correct liberals: that people can't become gay. We can and we do. Not a lot of us, and not all the time, but it does happen.

Anybody who's interested and willing to learn might want to educate yourself on the concept of habituation and fluidity in human sexuality. I am not proud of my crime, but I did my time and I am past that point in my life and don't want to dwell on being locked up. I learned a lot there, including some things that allow me to see things from a broader perspective than I ever would have beforehand.

I like being with guys. Before, I didn't. It's as simple as that, although it is very hard for some closed minds to wrap themselves around.

I love my sister dearly, but I have to say she has always been starting things she shouldn't, like this conversation! :confused:

Sincerely,
Josh M. Ramon II

thank you everybody i'ms orry i brought this up

luvmydaughter
04-08-2010, 12:47 AM
I gotta say I love this PTO. I was just checking out the forums to find info similar to yours. My daughter is in for only 11 more months - only been in state since December. When she got in she said there were a lot of gays there, but that she and a few other women she had met were not going to go that way. Then the next time I visited she told me she had a "girlfriend" and then the NEXT time she said she was in love and wanted to break off with her boyfriend. !!!!!! I to have nothing against her being gay, but as I said to her if she were we would have known before now - (she's 30). She said she'd never been attracted to women but now couldn't imagine going back to men.

And the clincher was she said the woman was HIV positive. I took all this in calmly and we talked about it a lot. I urged her to not break with the boyfriend, that she had lots of time to think it all thru.

When I got home I wrote her a long letter and the only admonishment was about the HIV issue. I suggested it was just one more path of self-destruction she had chosen.

I also said - and believe - that this is all situational stuff. So - like Trista - I'm hoping others in this forum can help me - and Trista - and my daughter....

dee

hello everybody

my brother just got out of a 4 year prison stay. before he went in he was married and has 2 kids. his wife darla divorced him after he got locked up. he has visitation rights but they live in a different state now and are getting that worked out.

he said he "turned gay" in prison and cant see himself being with a woman now. i always thought you are born that way. before he had a wife and kids and we actually have an uncle (my mom brother) who is gay. he never had problems with him growing up and my family i spretty excepting of gay people (we grew up near san francisco for a while) so if he was gay before he wouldnt have to hide it from us his family.

i asked him "josh did you like men before and just didn't tell anybody?" and he says honesty no that if that was the case he would of acted on it then and i believe him (i can usually tell when he is lying).

but how is this even possible? he doesnt know how it happened, he just said now he's gay and before he wasnt and that he is not sure if he will try to become straight again or not. he seemed pretty confused how it happened too.

he said he messed around with one guy and got real close and now he didn't think he wanted to be with women anymore. i dindt ask him any more personal details but i am confused now.

Its very confusing to me. how can a person who has never felt that way become like that?

i love my brother no matter what but i am just confused. i actually am going to family therapy with him next week maybe he will talk about that.

eta: if the homosexuality was there before he got locked up, how could you go 28 years and not notice it?

luckyme_in
04-08-2010, 08:51 AM
Well I'll throw out my 2 cents and kind of agree with Ken. There is a significant portion of people gay/lesbian/bi who don't "figure it out" until a lot later in life. For some people it's easier to go through the motions of what society expects of them.

In his case I wouldn't really say that is it. If he was in for that long I'll venture a bet that he never really got close to a guy friend. Not that people weren't available, but....well face it you're locked up in a room with the same person...they are going to be there on your best days and on your worst days. There is some type of bond that is going to form.

My former guy was as racist as the day was long before he went to prison. It took a black guy standing up for him over something for him to change. No...I'm not trying to suggest your brother roomed with a gay guy. I'm just saying maybe he didn't think he could ever be close to a guy and the prison experience changed his mind.

Anyways...just food for thought. Kudos to you for loving him no matter what. Sounds like he is as confused as you all are. Just remind him to play safe, don't hurt anyone and enjoy his life. :)

luvmydaughter
04-08-2010, 10:26 AM
Trista - I don't know how much you've been here on PTO before, but my opinion is don't ever be sorry for bringing something up here. At least I like to think that this is a place that we can ask and talk about anything, as long as it is respectful of others feelings of course. At least now you have more confirmation of how your brother feels.

I wish him luck in his life - both emotionally and from the standpoint of putting prison behind him. That's all we want for our loved ones isn't it?

Maybe you can reassure your brother that we are all your "friends" here and whatever we talk about is between friends. We may disagree but generally we are a respectful bunch. And we're ALL here because of our love for another person.

dee

I showed him he ask me to respond but he didnt want to register he said prison is behind him.

thank you everybody i'ms orry i brought this up

Wobabi
04-08-2010, 11:40 AM
Trista's Brother,,,I am coming late but I was going to add that men do get turned out in prison (slang speak),,,they tried it and decided they liked it. Now I am not sure if only being sexually attracted to men consitutes being *gay* (there are different schools of thought on this) because I have met bi-sexual men that say they are not gay. Very confusing there. But they are saying theere is more to being gay than sex. I get that I think?
And I do agree not all men are born gay but *choose* the gay lifestyle because I am now meeting men who are saying they are not interested in being with men anymore. Choosing to go back.
A homegirl of mine sent me to a website they have set up where former homosexual men are wishing to meet and marry women because they no longer have a *taste * for that? And I do have a few female friends who did girls when they were young and are now strickly only into men ,,,interesting thread tho. I hope Bro gets all the asnwers he needs:thumbsup:

NoOne1994
04-08-2010, 12:03 PM
Howdy,
I'm not the gay expert but I've always thought gay people are born gay...but that's because my older brother is, and has always been, gay. I've always thought that those who don't come out were weary of being looked down upon. Perhaps being in prison for awhile made it easier for him to come out now that he's home?

I've known men in their 50's who finally came out after their children left the home. I chalk that behavior up to the era in which they were raised. It took a very strong individual to come out years back; whereas today it's a little more accepting in our society.

Regardless, just be an open minded sister and love him just as much as you did when he wasn't out. He hasn't changed, he's just probably being more real with himself now. I suggest supporting him as much as you can :)

codewarrior2007
04-08-2010, 01:59 PM
As a gay man, I feel obligated to add my two cents, even if I'm not adding much new information.

Being gay is just not a choice, just like being black or white, or having big feet or small feet, or being allergic to tofu are not choices. It's something you just don't have control over.

What you do have control over is whether or not you are honest with yourself and whether you act upon your sexuality. All but one of the guys I've dated had been married with kids before realizing they were gay, and all of them had made a choice to be honest with themselves. Some gay people know that they are gay, but choose not to be honest with themselves, and they live a hellish double life because of it.

What seems most likely is that your brother has been gay all along and just did not realize it, because the thought of him being gay never occurred to him. It happens every day. Being in prison, constantly being around men all the time, and seeing lots of naked men in the shower probably opened his eyes about his own sexuality.

Stating that being gay is not a choice is not arrogant. It's stating fact that has been discovered through decades of scientific research.

Don't treat him any differently. It is very hard to be gay, especially when you don't have family who loves you unconditionally. And he really needs your support now that he is out of prison.

I wish you well!

Trista
04-08-2010, 02:16 PM
I see people refer to science research can you refer me to the studies your talking about it i would like to read all the stuff your citing.

codewarrior2007
04-08-2010, 07:29 PM
Here you go:



http://www.springerlink.com/content/7u2wc6mfdfmw60l8/
http://linkinghub.elsevier.com/retrieve/pii/S1090513800000520
http://rspb.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/271/1554/2217.abstract
http://www.questia.com/googleScholar.qst;jsessionid=L29ZypcdyXfQvG0nCLT6w hKCCBPWp8G4k5f1Gc0KClTHn7tL8Fty!-234547230!-1212569054?docId=5001921648
(FREE) http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&lr=&id=AQ_5Us0tbpEC&oi=fnd&pg=PA27&dq=gay+birth+order&ots=nR5w9WHqWd&sig=02o-1W4-g37EFxwXYeXqXb5t678#v=onepage&q=gay%20birth%20order&f=false
http://www.springerlink.com/content/w27453600k586276/
http://psycnet.apa.org/journals/dev/31/1/124/
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6V9F-4619GBX-1&_user=10&_coverDate=06%2F30%2F2003&_rdoc=1&_fmt=high&_orig=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_searchStrId=1287406724&_rerunOrigin=scholar.google&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=c6ebbb08222f46bd74b1c8170d0349d5


Unfortunately, most of this information is available on a pay basis. You can still read the abstract for free to understand what the article is about. Here is a nice youtube video that summarizes this information:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PooEhBxh0NY&playnext_from=TL&videos=N2Tc_R7Hl0I

You can find oodles of information from scientific journals via google:

http://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&q=gay+birth+order
http://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&q=gay+twin
http://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&q=gay+gene

Trista
04-09-2010, 05:58 PM
thank you very much i will read them later or tomorrow.

it reminds me for the gene to taste bitter compounds. some people have the genes for tasting it but they can actually learn to like bitter food anyway i wonder if it's similar for some people sexcuality. agian thank you

Ken
04-10-2010, 05:23 AM
The response below is NOT intended to be offensive... The written word is a very powerful thing and can be taken differently by different people. Tone is often implied in the written word, and that tone can be interpreted differently by each person - especially when you don't know the person and have not interacted with them personally.

Josh has some pretty strong opinion expressed here and to MY interpretation of his words, he has called me 'arrogant, self-centered, and unwilling to learn' which is a comment that I cannot ignore.

I have over the years at PTO ignored a LOT of statements in this forum that are fringe to an insult, however this one I will not.

PTO is NOT about calling someone names for having a different opinion. I am as entitled to my opinion as is Josh. The difference of opinion between individuals is what makes our world interesting and exciting in my opinion. It is what fuels learning and expansion of the mind. However when you take an individuals opinion and call it arrogant and self-centered then you are calling them out and ultimately saying that my opinion is trash and your opinion is the right one. I would refer back to the statement about "God" and how perhaps Josh is now violating that statement?

I also recognize that Josh is not a member of PTO, however his sister is and she started this conversation. Opinion has been shared and Josh has responded through a letter - assumingly entered here by his sister.

When someone calls me out on the open site I generally respond... I have done so below... with more opinion.

Dear Ken,

Your "opinion as a Gay[sic] man" is reflective of your own situation. I thank you for sharing, but it cannot address the life stories of other people. I can't speak for every man's experience and neither can you, friend. It is true that a lot of people are born gay just the same as a lot of people are born Jewish. You personally were probably born gay. That's fine. But that doesn't mean that all Jews are born that way or that all gay men are born that way. Sorry. You can't speak for everybody, only your own experiences.

I normally would leave statements like this alone, but this one I just cannot... You can NOT compare being gay - born or not - to being Jewish or any other religion. Religion is a choice and is not a gene or a hormone. You have no control of what religion you are born to and your decision to follow that religion or not is a choice. This I will debate to the end... being gay - whether you believe you were born gay or not can not be compared to the choice of religion or spirituality.

You are not born Jewish - your parents are Jewish. When you are born gay, your parents are probably not gay. If your parents were gay then you would probably not have been born of 'those' parents unless your parents were a gay man and a lesbian woman... this argument alone totally decimates your statement that you can be 'born Jewish'.

There is no one-size-fits-all answer that fits every homosexual person. To say "I will ALWAYS insist that you are born this way, it is not learned, it is not taught," shows an arrogant, self-centered, unwilling-to-learn approach that prevents the speaker from looking at other possibilities beyond what he has directly experienced. In other words, it is a very limiting viewpoint that holds you back from the wider range of human experiences. It leaves you in an intellectual poverty of sorts because you admit that you're unwilling to change your mind.

I would suggest that your rebuttal is in itself arrogant, self-centered, and an unwilling to learn approach.

Yes, I did say... "I will always insist that you are born gay"... but that is after a lot of years, a lot of reading, a lot of discussion, etc. I have many times on this site been seen to say as well that sexuality is a very complicated thing and that there is not one answer. Yes, I have strong opinions about this.

It's a sad day when one person tries to speak for every man, especially when you don't have that authority (no one has that authority but God himself). You may only speak for your own experience. I believe you were born gay. You owe me the same respect. Thank you for your understanding.

This statement would or could be true if you believe that "God" exists. Therefore this statement only means something to someone that believes in "God"

To everyone else: let me be clear. I was with girls from the time I was 15 till I was 24. I went through high school, college, and some graduate school and had ample opportunities to be with guys if I ever wanted to. I thought about it but it just didn't appeal to me in the least. In college my first roommate was a VERY gay dude and he asked me to fool around a couple times. I never did it, because I just wasn't interested. If I was interested you bet I would have participated.

Let me be clear. I was with 'girls' too throughout high school and in to my 20's. Many girls. One for 5 years and we were edging close to marriage.

Have you ever heard of an "acquired taste?" This is a psychosocial phenomenon wherein a person may dislike the taste of a particular food, for example, tofu. Many people do not like the taste of tofu when they first encounter it. That is fine. Some people never like it. That is also fine. But for some people, a little while down the road, they may find themselves married to an Asian immigrant and may, in time, actually come to like tofu. That doesn't mean they liked tofu all along! It means they learned to like it. It's true that some people like tofu from birth. But some learn to like it. You have to respect every person's experience.

The tofu analogy isn't perfect, but it points out what is the absurd notion you often hear from politically correct liberals: that people can't become gay. We can and we do. Not a lot of us, and not all the time, but it does happen.

Anybody who's interested and willing to learn might want to educate yourself on the concept of habituation and fluidity in human sexuality. I am not proud of my crime, but I did my time and I am past that point in my life and don't want to dwell on being locked up. I learned a lot there, including some things that allow me to see things from a broader perspective than I ever would have beforehand.

I like being with guys. Before, I didn't. It's as simple as that, although it is very hard for some closed minds to wrap themselves around.

My final point is that you seem not to refer to yourself as 'Gay' now, but that you 'like to be with guys' and in the past you chose not to be with guys. Seems to me that you don't want to carry the 'label' of Gay. This is often where people have the conflict within themselves and this is also - in my opinion - where labels like Bi-sexual came from. People that don't want to identify with the Gay culture or carry the labe of being Gay... it is just easier that way.

I love my sister dearly, but I have to say she has always been starting things she shouldn't, like this conversation! Guess that you did not have to participate?

Sincerely,
Josh M. Ramon II
I showed him he ask me to respond but he didn't want to register he said prison is behind him.

thank you everybody i'ms orry i brought this up

Trista
04-10-2010, 06:17 PM
can somebody please tell me whjat PTO means? i googled it but i cant figure it out

kent hank you for responding btw we are half jewish and it is not just a religion. it is also an ethnicity. most people are actually born jewish but some people chose to become jewish. its different for every one.

FreshStart2
04-11-2010, 11:29 PM
This site... Prison Talk Online-PTO

Ken
04-12-2010, 04:03 AM
I am sorry, people are born by parents that are Jewish, you are not born with a predisposition to be Jewish. Religion is a choice and is not influenced by genes, hormones, or anything scientific.

Wobabi
04-12-2010, 01:49 PM
I am sorry, people are born by parents that are Jewish, you are not born with a predisposition to be Jewish. Religion is a choice and is not influenced by genes, hormones, or anything scientific.
,, Just adding fyi- being Jewish is an ethnic group you can be born into it as well as its a religion you can choose to follow,,, just like being Yoruba is a ethinic group and a religion.
So you can be born Yoruba or practice the Yoruba religion same as Jewish.
My question also(to anyone) is why do so many people, men and women, only *discover* they were born gay- if its something you are saying you are born into ( I still say choice) once they go to prison?
It makes one think that criminality/imprisonment is some how linked to *gay* sexual discovery or gayness??
Like why does it take prison to find out they really are gay?
And if they never went to prison would they have led their whole life never knowing they were really gay?
And why do once they get released from prison many never go back to living a *gay* life or homosexual encounters?
Curious to have the right info,,,,,

NoOne1994
04-12-2010, 03:08 PM
I can't answer for the men/women who *realized* they were gay in prison, but it all boils down to one thing for the gay people I know that waited a long time to come out: society. Many led a secret life behind the 'typical American family' facade.

One of my lesbian friends didn't fully tap into her gayness until she was 30 years old and finally kissed a girl and she said she knew that's immediately where she belonged, with a woman.

I don't think people just wake up one day and say 'okay, I'm gay now'. Due to societies fiercely negative undertones towards the gay community, I believe that for many people, coming out is a gradual process. Many may struggle to believe they are gay so they tend to fight it.

Again, I'm not a gay expert.

Trista
04-12-2010, 07:32 PM
thank you PTO makes sense now dont i feel stupid :o

if you still want to say that jewish is not a ethnicity please research "ethnic Jews" bc thouisands of years of history disagrees with yoU!


to say that jewish is not an ethnicity feels almost like a unintentional borderline-racist comment to me. would you say that about other ethnic groups? i really hope not. it shows a common ignorance to what makes a person jewish bc it isnt just all about religion (just like being a gay isnt just all about sex). the original point that most people are born jewish but some choose to be jewish will always be true as long as there are jews. i dont know if its tru for homosexuals or not but i woudnt be surprised either (its besides the point). the one sized fits all answer doesn;t actually fit everybody most of the time it does fit MOST but not all.

thank you

ButtaPecnKiss4U
04-13-2010, 09:16 AM
my only guess is maybe he himself frowned on gays at one point, and once he went to prison and made friends with a gay man, he received the support he needed personally. (im told from a reliable source that most homosexual relationships aren't actually based on sex, its more about companionship..friendship..etc) the only way i can explain it better is if u constantly come across a commercial for a specific advertisement, and u bypass it becuz u feel its something ur not interested in... and u go to a close friends house and experience what u weren't interested in the first place..... and find out u like or better yet u love it!!!

NoOne1994
04-13-2010, 09:32 AM
I've always thought that being Jewish is a religion/cultural thing versus an ethnic thing? Am I correct?

Ken
04-14-2010, 04:07 AM
Ok Ladies and Gentlemen.... this thread is getting a bit heated and needs to be returned to the original post... I know - I too have commented on sideline discussion...

This post is about a brother possibly becoming gay while in prison - not about being a sinner because you are gay or lesbian - please refrain from posting unsupportive comments - nor is this a debate about the Jewish religion.

From this point forward any discussion about the Jewish religion will be IMMEDIATELY removed... the only content that will remain from this point forward will be discussion about a brother becoming gay in prison.

Ken
04-14-2010, 04:08 AM
No offence to anyone that has continued the discussion about the Jewish religion, however that discussion ends now...as it is off topic from the original topic. You may take the Jewish discussion to the appropriate forum if you wish. Jewish has nothing to do with being Gay and being Gay has nothing to do with being Jewish.

SpicaRigel
04-15-2010, 03:45 PM
All of this has been very interesting.
I didnt realize i was transgendered for years! I thought i was a very feminine gay man. It wasnt until a gay man asked me if i had ever wanted to be a woman and i said "Yes!" and he said to me, "Thats the difference between you and me, i have never wanted to be a woman." Then it clicked for me.
Ok, all of this has to do with gender idenity, not sexual identity but the point i was making is i think some people are just in denial, out of touch with their feelings, or are missinformed.
I think we are born gay, straight, or bi. I cant go with the acquired taste theory otherwise i would have definitly acquired a taste for women.
ANd some of us are born into the wrong sex, male or female, and thats another thread.
But i feel we are born in to what our sexuality is going to be, and for some of us it doesnt become clear till later in life.

MamaB58
04-15-2010, 07:52 PM
I agree with Spica, it has really been an interesting topic. Personally, I think it just is what it is. Sometimes things cant really be explained in words.

Scott
04-16-2010, 04:22 PM
hello everybody

my brother just got out of a 4 year prison stay. before he went in he was married and has 2 kids. his wife darla divorced him after he got locked up. he has visitation rights but they live in a different state now and are getting that worked out.

he said he "turned gay" in prison and cant see himself being with a woman now. i always thought you are born that way. before he had a wife and kids and we actually have an uncle (my mom brother) who is gay. he never had problems with him growing up and my family i spretty excepting of gay people (we grew up near san francisco for a while) so if he was gay before he wouldnt have to hide it from us his family.

eta: if the homosexuality was there before he got locked up, how could you go 28 years and not notice it?

Your brother is either not being honest with himself, or with anyone else - or perhaps both. People don't "turn gay" all of a sudden. The most current theory is that sexuality or gender identification is that it's like a continuum: Think of it this way.

100% Gay------25%------50%------25%------Straight 100%

Some people (a rare few I might add) would either never have sex with the opposite sex, or with their own sex. Those are the 100%ers. Mostly everyone else falls somewhere else on the spectrum, With the majority of people falling in the one of the upper middle areas. What happens when people "come out" is that they simply acknowledge the feelings that have always been there.

Lots of things are possible with your brother's situation - one is that he has always been gay - or at least moving in that direction - but had, for one reason or another, repressed it fairly effectively. Being in an all male environment released some of the need for that repression - and he was able to give himself permission to be more open about it.

It does sound like your family has a culture of acceptance - but men are funny about those things sometimes. It's also possible that this is related to his divorce (as in, "that was so painful an personal experience I'll swear off women all together..." kind of thing).

The bottom line is if you don't think it's a big deal that he's gay, then it really doesn't matter if he is or isn't. You might try taking the "whatEVER" approach - and see if the lack of shock value makes any difference in what he does or says. Prison didn't make him gay, BTW. :rolleyes:

Scott
04-17-2010, 06:46 PM
Here you go:

That's like the best collection of material on the subject I've ever seen. AWESOME job putting it all together - thanked you, but that just didn't seem enough for all the work you put into that...:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

The Video is an old one, but amazingly helpful to people. I've used it several times too...

Legal_Guardian7
05-13-2010, 03:58 PM
There are MANY men that don`t realize their `gay side` until later in life. I know many men with children that were happily married and had children and then at a point realized that they preferred to be with a man.

I will ALWAYS insist that you are born this way, it is not learned, it is not taught, it is inside you. When it comes out will be different with different people.

Prison had nothing to do with it... if he was not predisposed to this behaviour and feelings then it would not have happened. Prison may have given him the opportunity to live out these feelings or see them for the first time, but the act of being locked up with men did not cause this to happen.

My opinion as a Gay man.

I have to agree with Ken here. But I will go a step farther in my own experiences. I once worked with an offender whom I believe felt freeer to be himself in prison than he felt on the outside. On the outside his family is extremely homophobic and thus, he lived in constant denial. Whereas in prison he was able to be himself without his family ever finding out and for him, it was freedom.

Ken
05-14-2010, 04:56 AM
As above... society forces some men to remain closeted. I know men that have grown up in family environments (and they have always known that they were really Gay) where the family openly degrades homosexuality, tell derogatory jokes, and basically bad mouth being Gay and then combine that with a religion that does not support being Gay and you have a man that will supress his feelings and be with women to be accepted. Not every man can stand up and accept and pronounce that they are Gay in front of family and friends that openly speak against what and who they are.

I have one friend that lives at home as a 43 year old man - has been in a committed relationship with his Partner for 8 years - they have never lived together because his family does not know that he is Gay and he is terrified to tell them in case he loses them. Sad.

mike50401
09-21-2010, 08:36 AM
thank you both. i am going to ask josh to read over here. he might get angry that i researched it and asked a question. haha


I would get angry. Sounds like the only one with an issue is you. Have you considered it's not your concern? He will let you into whatever he wants you to know. Who cares what the past is, doesn't sound like he is concerned about it, so unless you want to make a therapist rich, I'd move on.

ambitious
09-21-2010, 07:04 PM
I personally wouldn't challenge someone's very personal experience as not being authentic when they tell it to me, though that could be the case.

I saw a program one time on cable. It was a tribal people (I can't remember where) where homosexuality was a practice among all males in the tribe until a certain age and then it was prohibited after that age. Sex between males was also part of Samurai culture.

In Greek times, young greek males lost their virginity to older men, who served as mentors foremost. Some scholars think that this practice was mostly among the noble classes, though others believe it was common among all classes. Spartan warriors had same sex sexual relations with other Spartan warriors during their youth to strengthen their bonds for the purpose of fighting harder to protect each other.

In Greek culture, there was no such thing as gender identity. They wouldn't have understood that. That's part of our culture.

I don't comment on your brother's account. It's personal. I do dislike it when someone shares of themselves and other people want to comment that they are blind or don't have the "truth." There are many truths in this world and some can apply and others may not.

She'sMyAngel
09-24-2010, 02:20 AM
Can I just thank you all for my ever widening perspective (the fact that I'm a jewish lesbian has cause me much delight) You guys are truly awesome. And Spica, I'm so glad you found yourself! I have TG friends and theyre some of the happiest people I know.

username1
09-26-2010, 10:58 AM
This has been a very interesting discussion! Thanks to everyone for their point of view. I think this shows that the continuum of human sexual behavior is very broad. There exists a wide RANGE of gays, bisexuals, and straights--and a blurring along the lines between these types. I have known of some otherwise totally straight college students who figured out they could get a free & no-strings attached "quickie" if they visited certain areas within a local city park. Are these guys gay? I don't really think so. Again, thanks to everyone for your opinions.

benbaker108
10-21-2010, 10:47 AM
I am a gay man who has done quite a bit of time in both state and federal prisons. I will tell you this. Prison did not make him gay in my opinion. There were men in there who would not even think about another man under any circumstances and then there were men who would visit the wife and kids and get a blow job as soon as they got back from visit. Sexual identity was something your brother wrestled with intently in himself. Just as I did before I came out and I still have one foot in the closet. Prison love just allowed him to find the right person to feel good about and accept his sexuality. Its not wrong nor should he feel ashamed. He has some wonderful children and himself he has to look out for and quit all the other bullcrap. Who cares when it happened, just hope he is happy. Ken is right though, being gay is not a learned behavior, especially in prison. Prison(s) can be really rough on gay men and I dont see him accepting those consequences of his behavior in prison unless it was not already there, just needed the spark to help him see himself for who he is, not what everyone else wanted him to be. Good luck to him and I hope he finds much happiness. :thumbsup:

veryhurtmom
10-26-2010, 02:13 PM
ok i am just going to put this out here ...my son has been down for 4 and half years now. due to get out soon. he has allways been with girls. married and had a daughter. which she divorced him while he was locked up..the past month or two my son has told me he has feelings for this other man.which is 20 years older then him.he is 22. now i dont have a problem with gay people at all my daughter is a lesbian and is in a very good relationship with an older woman.i am just trying to figure out if this is just a fase he is in cause he is locked up and will be different when he gets out..either way i will love him no matter what.i have a few very close gay friends male and female..and i also have been with a woman. i have been married for 24 years and hubby would die if he found out..he had a hard time accepting that his little girl was gay.so i know he is going to lose it when he finds out about our son..but i believe you love them for who they are not who they are with .that doesnt change them inside.

sarahh7778
10-26-2010, 07:02 PM
very thought provoking subject and kudos sharing with respect to everyone's opinions. I think this one of those subjects that can never be compared through shared experience or agreed on when you have religion, prejudice, politics, and society all supporting an agenda that fits a timely need. Keep up the respectful debate, it is nice to see this on PTO.

Scott
10-26-2010, 11:11 PM
i am just trying to figure out if this is just a phase he is in cause he is locked up and will be different when he gets out..either way i will love him no matter what.

Good - because there's no way for anyone to know whether it's a phase or not until he does get out. The important thing is that you are supportive unconditionally. That's what really counts and matters.

Prison does not make people "gay", or straight or any other orientation. It does occasionally provide an opportunity for people to explore their sexuality in a context they would not have otherwise possibly pursued. However, it's really hard to tell that...and no one outside of the person him/herself can really answer the question.

Ken
10-27-2010, 04:11 AM
I agree with Scott that you cannot know until he gets out. I also agree with Sarahh.

I have my opinions as a Gay man and have spoken them many times.

I think what I want to say here is that your son has been through a trying time no matter how you slice it. He found someone that 'took care of his emotions' while he has been inside. He found someone that he could care for and that cared for him.

Sexuality is a very difficult and confusing thing. I could say here that he may come out longing for this man that he has feelings for inside and that his feelings may not look for someone else on the outside?

No one can say until he comes home.

This man inside may have been his 'safe house' while he was in and was how he got through? He may come out and never look at a guy again.

I think that as time goes on, what we are seeing as society becomes more open, is that more and more people are feeling open to exploring their sexual feelings without the fear that used to be attached to being Gay or Bi-sexual.

When I came out Gay bars were on back alleys and we risked getting beaten up or attacked going to these bars. Everything was hidden because society was not accepting.

Now - thank goodness - the diversity of sexuality is in a lot of places allowed to show and people are more accepting of this diversity. I say 'diversity' because it is not as simple now as Gay, Lesbian, or Straight. There are many levels of sexuality that we see today.

I tend to look at this as two humans that fall in love - or lust. Who is anyone to judge. No one of us is pure and 100% free of any kind of wrong doing or thought. We all live in glass houses to a certain extent.

Not that this is the theme of this thread or what I am answering, but everyone should look at themselves and what they have done before they judge anyone else.

yourself
10-27-2010, 11:54 PM
There's this concept out there called "situational homosexuality" that might be brought up in relationship to your son. If sexuality slides along a continuum, and I believe it does, then the vast majority of people have both homosexual and hetrosexual inclinations. Society makes it much easier to be heterosexual, so the vast majority of people identify themselves as heterosexual. When society changes, and suddenly there are no members of the opposite sex available, and it is at least reasonably ok for a guy to act on his homosexual impulses, then he's much more apt to develop those feelings.

The fact of the matter is that who really cares? As long as he's with somebody who serves his emotional needs, and who he can care about, then it's a good thing. When he gets out, and with the continued evolution of acceptance for GLBTG people, he'll have to figure it out for himself. Hopefully, he falls in love with somebody who is able to help him in his emotional life, somebody he can support through their journey through life. As long as he is happy, healthy, and capable of both giving and receiving love, then the gender of his mate is not that relevant.

Personally, I applaud anybody who can find and reciprocate love in those circumstances, whether there's a romantic component to it or not.

Just remember, research shows that sexual orientation is not static, and it's on a continuum. Most people are not fully 100% gay or 100% straight, nor are they a particular percent straight or gay all their lives. Allow for change and shift in your son, and in yourself, and in anybody.

Ken
10-28-2010, 04:13 AM
I completely agree with what is being said above. As I age my opinions have changed significantly. I still personally believe that Gay and Lesbian youth were born that way... not something that outside influences create... but I do agree with 'sliding' when it comes to sexuality.

The one thing that I find interesting is that I know MANY Gay men that have never been with a woman - never wanted to in any way or fashion - and then there are Gay guys like me that did experiment but always knew that my true 'satisfaction' could and does only come from a man. (For me.) Was I ever Straight? No. Was that ever a chance? No. But I did have many 'girlfriends' in my teens and early 20's.

I wait for the day that society accepts any love between any two people as long as it is between consenting ADULTS, and does not abuse physically, mentally, or in any way exploit anyone. ( I am talking the basic 'normal' stuff here between two people)

wtwtNbridog
10-29-2010, 02:14 PM
Well I would like to say that when my ex went in for 6yrs. And when he was released he went to live with another gay man he had met in prison.He says he is not gay or bisexual He says he did it cause he had no where else to go. I dont know if I should believe him,but when he finally found me and his son he apoligized and said he started using drugs again for the way he chose to live when he was released.I think he is in denial or afraid to admit it because of his son.He is back in prison right now and we dont have any type of contact again his choice.

CupCakeLove
10-30-2010, 01:20 AM
I figure 4 years is a short while to be "turned gay". It's not that he may or may not be lying, it's just he's just coming to grips with his feelings. CupCake been in prison for 10 years and has never had an encounter with a man. I know him and he will hurt someone trying to come onto him. He says that if they are gay now it's because they had some thoughts of it before they came in. I don't know about that one.

CupCakeLove
10-30-2010, 07:04 AM
Interesting thread!

SpicaRigel
10-30-2010, 07:46 AM
ok i am just going to put this out here ...my son has been down for 4 and half years now. due to get out soon. he has allways been with girls. married and had a daughter. which she divorced him while he was locked up..the past month or two my son has told me he has feelings for this other man.which is 20 years older then him.he is 22. now i dont have a problem with gay people at all my daughter is a lesbian and is in a very good relationship with an older woman.i am just trying to figure out if this is just a fase he is in cause he is locked up and will be different when he gets out..either way i will love him no matter what.i have a few very close gay friends male and female..and i also have been with a woman. i have been married for 24 years and hubby would die if he found out..he had a hard time accepting that his little girl was gay.so i know he is going to lose it when he finds out about our son..but i believe you love them for who they are not who they are with .that doesnt change them inside.

Thank you, this was wonderful to read especially after all this mess with Clint McCance saying he is all for gays killing themselves and he'd disown his own kids if they ever said they were gay.
You are a wonderful mother!

Ken
11-02-2010, 05:28 AM
There is another interesting scenario that comes into play here. Age. What age is a man/boy locked up.

In my Partner's prison, I have witnessed many times in the visiting room 16/17 year olds that were tried as an adult and thrown into a max prison.

These 'kids' have not necessarily even experienced their 'sexuality' yet and now you are throwing a boy/man into a prison with raging hormones? Some of these guys are going to be 'gay' just because they have no other outlet.

On the outside these guys may be Bi-sexual with a stronger desire for women, but inside all they have is men.

Point being - a 30 year old that goes to prison is probably less likely to engage in same sex activities than someone younger - very young.

My Partner proclaims to be Bi-sexual. He has had both male and female relationships, however most of his adult life has been in prison and that is where most of his male relationships have been. Is he really Gay? I don't even know this. I don't think that he knows this.

h4hrybb0o5
11-02-2010, 09:25 AM
My neighbor came out when his fifth child graduated high school. He didn't turn gay. He always was. He just hid it and lied about it and denied it for many years. It is too bad that our society gets all ga-ga about sexuality. Gay-straight; black-white; Chinese-Mexican; male-female; blue eyes-brown hair; Atheist-Christian; what's the difference?

Ken
11-03-2010, 06:42 AM
There are several movies out there that have made some strong statements about growing up Gay... and the current campaign around "It Gets Better" is heart wrenching...

One of the scenes that comes to mind is from my favourite movie - Torch Song Trilogy - and it is something like "How would you feel growing up in a world where everything was straight, everythign that you saw in media, on TV, around you - everything was straight. No reference to Gay no role model to follow"

Anyway it was something like that and that speaks to me loudly because I was born and raised for the first 13 years of my life in Canada's largest city and then my parents moved us to a rural area where my high school town only had 3000 people and the high school population itself was only 700. These were the worst years of my life because the narrow minded nature of this area was so strong and so pronounced it was frightening.

One of the points here is that in a large city there is diversity of thinking and lifestyle. Even at that point in my life. In this small town area there was no diversity. There was one thought process and that was man meets woman and they marry and have children.

SOme people at that time and today where this culture still exists are strong enough to stand up and fight. I like many others were not so I hid who and what I was. The difference for me is I ran from this rural area when I was 18 and built my life in the city where I could have a peer group and mentors if you will.

Some men and women never escape that rural or small town narrow minded thinking and don't know how to break away so they do get married, they do have kids, they do life a secret life on the side or they just suffer in their lives as they are.

I cannot tell you how many men that I know that have kids and the story is the same. No role model, no outlet, did what was the norm, then got to a point where they could not take it any more so the family is broken but they are free.

Sad but society imposes these rules on us and some obey and some do not. I applaud the people of the past and present that don't obey and stand up because they are the ones that have made life for me to be like the campaign... "It Gets Better"

woodiestwo
11-03-2010, 05:23 PM
i was one that hid it from my family, and it blew out strong when i was caught with cp and was charged with one coune of solisitation of a 14yo boy, who was a woman cop. thank god my mother didnt see this, but this cost me a ten year federal prison sentence, and my sister disowning me. my brothers speak to me at a distance, and my father has been a saint. i must stress that i drifted across thuis line due to my mental illness including my sexual addiction. a true pedophile is not gay, and the addictions counselor who evaluated me told me that i was a sex addict and not a pedophile. i agree with the above post, if i wasnt so repressed, depressed, and felt like i had a puropse in life, none of this would have happened. just my opinion... rich

smiley815
11-09-2010, 07:10 PM
Just let him Experience This because you only live once, and if it makes him happy then that's all that matters.

crazigirl
11-10-2010, 08:40 AM
hmmmm interesting, I think one can't control who they fall in love with.... it just happens

smithdb2008
11-10-2010, 11:41 AM
Being in prison might have made the opportunity present itself...put prison did not make him gay..he already had consider his sexually preference which we all have in our lives

wolf409
11-29-2010, 09:52 AM
this is a myth. you're right there is no "turning" gay. either you are or you aren't. not only that, but he was wronged by the woman he made a life with. i'm sure that influenced his feelings, but didn't cause anything. the tendencies were always there, he just never noticed. men in this society are taught being gay is wrong and you're not "manly" if you're gay.

my bff for over 20 yrs is gay. she didn't realize it til her 20s. she tried to make herself happy, and it never happened. there was this "void" there. when she dated a woman, now her wife, that void filled. she did all the "right" things growing up from attending church to dating guys. i couldn't be happier for her as this person treats her the way she should be and they complement each other very well. that's what really matters to me, not what caused her epiphany. it's society's fault and all this religious agenda everyone tries to push onto others. like my friend said, if God hates gay people so much, why did he make them? food for thought.

showstopa
12-30-2010, 10:52 AM
For the most part i have to fully agree that people are born gay/bi/trans. The prison system is probably the thing that made the desire to be with another guy more strong.

Men form bonds with other men in jail, which ohterwise would not have happened, providing that they never went to prison.

But i will agree that it seems like some guys are more open to being wiith a man AFTER being locked up. My second boyfreind was like that. Some of these guys may not have ever acted on these feelings had they not been incarcerated, that i do beleive!

cablndguy
01-06-2011, 07:30 PM
I am gay, and I have only been with dated bisexual guys. So I know a little about this.

First of all not all people are alike. Some were born like me being gay. Others not. each person is different.

What you brother may be going through is called latent bisexuality or latent gay. What that means and it is not a rule but it happens sort of like this.

Your brother lived as a straight person for many years. He may or may not have had an attraction to other men simply because he was satisfied with his sstraight sexual relationship at the time. Sometimes when men have a gay experience, and they find they liked it, it can be confusing and suddenly they find themselves searching for their sexual identity.

What some people might not know is that a person can unexpectly find themselves attracted to a person who they never thought they would be attracted to and if he never had gay sex before might not have known they he could experience such things. This is rare but has happened.

Most people know they are straight - bi - straight from an early age. But some people, find out they have the capacity to be attracted to others of the same sex later on in life. Then when they find themselves actually having a sexual gay experience, It can be very confusing for that person.

Basically, All I can tell you is this, just tell him to follow his feelings and give him time to explore his sexual identiy. He may find that he is bisexual or might realize that being gay is more fulfilling for him mentally and physically and not want to go back to being straight.

Most men who have sex with men in prison do so for necessity or release. People no matter who they are have a need to be close to someone, show physical or sexual closeness with a person, and when they are not able to find a someone of the opposite sex, will do it with someone of the same sex, but most of the time, when they get out, they will go right back to what for them is natural, whatever that may be. Your brother may be the exception.

Just give him time, your love and support and let him know that your love for him won't change because of how he decides to live his life.






hello everybody

my brother just got out of a 4 year prison stay. before he went in he was married and has 2 kids. his wife darla divorced him after he got locked up. he has visitation rights but they live in a different state now and are getting that worked out.

he said he "turned gay" in prison and cant see himself being with a woman now. i always thought you are born that way. before he had a wife and kids and we actually have an uncle (my mom brother) who is gay. he never had problems with him growing up and my family i spretty excepting of gay people (we grew up near san francisco for a while) so if he was gay before he wouldnt have to hide it from us his family.

i asked him "josh did you like men before and just didn't tell anybody?" and he says honesty no that if that was the case he would of acted on it then and i believe him (i can usually tell when he is lying).

but how is this even possible? he doesnt know how it happened, he just said now he's gay and before he wasnt and that he is not sure if he will try to become straight again or not. he seemed pretty confused how it happened too.

he said he messed around with one guy and got real close and now he didn't think he wanted to be with women anymore. i dindt ask him any more personal details but i am confused now.

Its very confusing to me. how can a person who has never felt that way become like that?

i love my brother no matter what but i am just confused. i actually am going to family therapy with him next week maybe he will talk about that.

eta: if the homosexuality was there before he got locked up, how could you go 28 years and not notice it?

Outlaws_sister
01-09-2011, 01:30 AM
I just wanted to chime in to say I agree with most of the other posts on his thread giving explanations for how this sort of thing evolves.

I, myself, had some (2 or 3) early same sex experiences with women, one at age 16 and a couple around age 18 and I rejected and repressed my feelings and reactions regarding those experiences because it was just not conceivable for me, the way I was raised, to even begin to think of myself as anything but 100% straight. Even though my desires and actions were contrary to this idea, I held fast to this "idea"; go to college, get married, have babies, stay home with babies, have a husband who provided for me, go shopping a lot. ;) Seriously. That's what I imagined. So that's what I did, (well, I skipped the college part, doing that now!) and my experience included a "ton" of boyfriends in high school as well and what would have appeared to be a very hetero life. Marriage, 2 kids, but I thought of myself as "bi", sorta, and told my husband as much.

Fast forward 10 years after 10 years of a truly nightmare marriage and I started finding myself seeking female friendship and relying on it for emotional intimacy which lead to physical intimacy eventually. All of which my (then) husband was okay with, for the record. He and I were long over, just together as a formality at this point.

And then I met someone who changed everything, because with her it was not just about having some wine and making out with a girl, but it was life changing and earth shattering, and I knew what I'd been missing all of my life, and yes, now I really can't imagine every being with men again. Never say never, but it doesn't seem at all likely, and I don't think that this was me "turning" gay or choosing anything. And my mom says "What?? But you had SO MANY boyfriends!??"... and everyone else says to me "Yeah, I kinda expected this long ago, you know.."

I think it is like going your whole life never having tasted anything but chocolate ice cream. Then someone, after many years, offers you pistachio or butter pecan and you are like :eek: !! How did I go all my life without knowing how amazing this could be!?? It doesn't mean chocolate had anything wrong with it, it just wasn't ideal for me really, ever, but it took some time and experience to figure that out.

Once I did finally have this realization (around age 30), I could see how, in retrospect, all of my frantic boyfriend-hopping was a symptom of chronic dissatisfaction, and many things suddenly made sense... like the way I always chose to spend all my time with female friends, even when I had a boyfriend, because that's who met my emotional needs. I just never understood all of this due to my social programming as someone who was expected to be straight, raised to be straight... ballet and beauty pageants and cheer-leading and all that jazz. Especially growing up female in the South, this was just something I would never have considered. Even with a very liberal mom and exposure to her gay (male) friends, well, it was inconceivable, and as a result of one of my same sex experiences, I actually had full on panic attacks and even blocked one experience from memory completely! It was only the details being shared with me by someone I trust 100% that I even learned that the whole night with this girl had ever taken place (and no,I wasn't drunk).. I just blocked it out, so threatening was this to my identity!

Now my brother, on the other hand (who is incarcerated) was, unfortunately, raped in prison when he first went in at age 18. However, this and other prison experiences have effected his attitudes towards people of certain races more than anything else and don't seemed to be linked to his ideas about sexuality.

He has told me that he has had some same sex experiences (consensual ones) both in and out of prison but that they were more of a "convenience" thing. He isn't homophobic, he doesn't deny the experiences, doesn't feel a need to label himself or ID as anything in particular... he just believes, like I do, that sexuality is on a continuum and says that he can have satisfying casual sex on rare occasions with a guy but never could imagine a true and deep emotional connection with a man. Which is kind of how I lived much of the first 30 years of my life without realizing it! ;) The feelings were always there, it just took the right person to really really wake them up, I think.