View Full Version : What are some victimless crimes you can go to jail or prison for?


person88
05-11-2009, 05:59 PM
What are some victimless crimes you can go to jail or prison for, besides drugs or prostitution? I don't think DUIs or not paying child support counts, since there is a stronger chance of a victim with DUI and the child can be an obvious victim without support.

This is mainly for the US, though listing stuff in other countries is fine to. Victimless crimes for California would be preferable to know too, since it's the most populated state.

tigrldy
05-11-2009, 06:24 PM
I'm not sure there is any such thing as a victimless crime. The reason things are crimes is usually because the harm someone in some way. You could view the government as a victim. They have to hire people to maintain law, investigate, etc. It has become the nature of our victim oriented mentality to find one.

J&D7
05-11-2009, 06:35 PM
Tax evasion

Sorry thats all I can think of!

Try a Google search

Butch Cassidy
05-11-2009, 09:48 PM
Gambling. :idea:

South Bay
05-13-2009, 02:05 PM
Bigamy, although not victimless per se, is a good example of a crime that can be charged as a felony in CA, and can get one sent to prison for many years under certain circumstances. For instance, the following article appeared in the news in 2000 in CA.

Bigamy charge could send man to 25 years-to-life under 3-strikes

Bigamy, a crime normally punishable by no more than three years in prison, could send a Visalia man away for 25 years to life, reports the Los Angeles Times.

It all began when Todd Givens, 30, was on trial in 1997 on drug and weapons charges. Assuming that he was on his way to prison, Givens got married so he could have conjugal visits, said his attorney, Charles Rothbaum. But a Tulare County jury acquitted Givens. Then last month, the district attorney's office charged him with getting married in a jailhouse ceremony while still legally married to another woman. Because Givens has two prior felony convictions, prosecutors have turned the bigamy into a third strike that could mean 25 years to life. "Bigamy Charge Is Man's 3rd Strike," Los Angeles Times, 01/08/00.

It sometimes seems that the cure is worse than the disease, so to speak.

South Bay

elvillalobos
05-21-2009, 03:55 PM
My son is in jail for a victimless crime. My son did something wrong, he thought he was talking to a 15 year old girl in a chat room he was lured into by the Marion county police. Ok this was wrong. The police talked to him several times and he did not solicit or try to meet anyone. My son did a stupid thing and releived himself on the internet to a policeman. He is in jail for one count of internet solicitation, you do not have to try and meet anyone for it to be soliciation. My son will now be on the sex register for 10 years for one stupid mistake. Our county would not let him come home and serve time on a monitor because of the nature of the charges, He is not a violent sex offendor who has raped beaten or murdered someone he is also not one of those on the registry for urinating in public either or one of the 6 year old children on the registry for exploring. Anyway the registry is going a little overboard nowadys check look up reform sex offender laws.

person88
05-28-2009, 02:24 PM
Thanks for some examples here. I was also wondering, what are some other even more ridiculous victimless crimes that don't involve other people, similar in nature to drugs crimes for example. For example there is supposedly an old law in California that women are not allowed to wear overcoats when driving, though I've never heard this enforced these days. I wonder whether there are victimless laws as ridiculous as eating an apple on a certain day or doing a certain activity. Like up in BC, Canada; it used to be an arrestable crime to sell books on a Sunday, though now I think they over-turned that law pretty recently thanks to Marc Emery. I hear dancing is still illegal on the books in New York City, but I'm not sure how many people go to jail for this.

That's pretty messed up elvillalobos, the tactics they use to entrap people is far too dirty to be called fair. The police are just looking for more opportunities to make many IMO. That's why the prison lobby is so powerful in this country.

Gryphon
05-28-2009, 07:51 PM
It is a CA misdemeanor to remove songbird eggs from a graveyard.

Charges related to possession of illegal weapons (including all sorts of firearms) do not involve a victim other than the "People of the State".

Drug possession arguably creates victims, since all sorts of other crime is frequently spawned by the drug use (thefts and violence, but mostly thefts.)

There are a lot of very odd laws, but there is still a victim. It is a felony Grand theft to possess someone else's dead mule. Grand theft value is reduced from $400 to $100 if anyone decides to steal plankton or kelp; same with avocados. It is a crime to insert an electrical appliance into an elephant's orafice.

person88
05-29-2009, 02:50 AM
Charges related to possession of illegal weapons (including all sorts of firearms) do not involve a victim other than the "People of the State".

Drug possession arguably creates victims, since all sorts of other crime is frequently spawned by the drug use (thefts and violence, but mostly thefts.)

Wait weapon possession has no victim other than the state but drugs do? But weapons can be used to spawn all sorts of crime too. I think most of the crime done with illegal drugs are due to low supply and high prices.....thefts like that are likely to occur if say tobacco became illegal too. And obviously no victims are ever created with something as non-toxic as weed.

It is a CA misdemeanor to remove songbird eggs from a graveyard.

What's the penalty for that? Can you actually go to jail for that I wonder.....and do they enforce that law often?



There are a lot of very odd laws, but there is still a victim. It is a felony Grand theft to possess someone else's dead mule. Grand theft value is reduced from $400 to $100 if anyone decides to steal plankton or kelp; same with avocados. It is a crime to insert an electrical appliance into an elephant's orafice.

I do wonder whether you would go to jail to possess someone's dead mule, seems like you would if it is a felony. Do you know any cases of time spent in prison for said crimes?

Oh yeah not applying for selective service is a federal felony, but you would have to verbally reject it in public to be convicted.

Wilsweetheart
05-29-2009, 08:46 AM
There is no such thing as a victimless crime.

person88
05-29-2009, 01:48 PM
There is no such thing as a victimless crime.

Oh yeah and when the jews broke the law in germany while trying to keep their livelihoods safe, their victim was the german government....or the black market of germany that helped shelter jews from nazi oppression.:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Honestly gurl, it's stuff like that, as well as most drug and weapon law that are what are called unjustified laws. ;) Just saying. If you think there is a victim with a grown man or woman, smoking some weed after work to relax then you need to really re-think your morals. Jus' sayin'. ;)

BTW, out of curiousity.....what sort of crime did Wil do? Jus' curious, don't take any of what I am saying offensively or anything.

esteli
05-29-2009, 01:54 PM
sending pornography to death row in a legal mail envelope. :thumbsup: yeah it was victimless and you know it marin county. :blah:

Lorraine
05-29-2009, 02:00 PM
There is no such thing as a victimless crime.


I agree! As long as at least one person- which includes yourself and your friends/family members- is adversely affected by a crime, there was a victim. Risking your freedom by commiting a crime is victimizing yourself.

Wilsweetheart
05-29-2009, 05:22 PM
Oh yeah and when the jews broke the law in germany while trying to keep their livelihoods safe, their victim was the german government....or the black market of germany that helped shelter jews from nazi oppression.:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Honestly gurl, it's stuff like that, as well as most drug and weapon law that are what are called unjustified laws. ;) Just saying. If you think there is a victim with a grown man or woman, smoking some weed after work to relax then you need to really re-think your morals. Jus' sayin'. ;)

BTW, out of curiousity.....what sort of crime did Wil do? Jus' curious, don't take any of what I am saying offensively or anything.
Don't worry, no offense taken. My morals? haha! There is always a victim in any crime, including the adult male/female smoking weed "to relax". This is illegal where I live. All too often people don't think of our children and communities when making their choices and decisions.
BTW, the reason my sweetheart is incarcerated is irrelevant. No one was physically hurt, but there are victims just the same.

Gryphon
05-29-2009, 08:16 PM
"Wait weapon possession has no victim other than the state but drugs do? But weapons can be used to spawn all sorts of crime too. "
Guns aren't illegal per se. UGLY guns are illegal, or a legal gun can he possessed in an illegal way. An ugly gun is no more dangerous than a pretty gun. If all guns were illegal, I think you'd have a better point.
I can't recall teh last ime I had a case where an UGLY illegal weapon was involved. The .22 pistol is the #1 weapon; legal to buy and cheap as heck.

"I think most of the crime done with illegal drugs are due to low supply and high prices.....thefts like that are likely to occur if say tobacco became illegal too."
People who use a lot of, say, coke will sometimes find themselves paranoid as hell, naked except for a T-shirt wrapped around their head, and robbing a 7-11. Their judgement runs out their ears as the absolutely drug controls their life. They can become psychotic, and symptoms greatly resemble schizophrenia. That doesn't happen much at all with cigs.

"What's the penalty for that? Can you actually go to jail for that I wonder.....and do they enforce that law often?" Up to 6 mos. in county jail as I recall. No, I've never heard of a prosecution.


"I do wonder whether you would go to jail to possess someone's dead mule, seems like you would if it is a felony. Do you know any cases of time spent in prison for said crimes?" It carries up to 1 year in the county; or 16 mos., 2 yrs., or 3 years if probation is denied. Nope, I've never heard of a prosecution.

person88
05-30-2009, 10:01 PM
I agree! As long as at least one person- which includes yourself and your friends/family members- is adversely affected by a crime, there was a victim. Risking your freedom by commiting a crime is victimizing yourself.So why don't we ban everything that can adversely effect your family member/friends....and who are you and I to say what constitutes this to begin with....to say so would really challenge the premise that we live in a free society where people have the liberty to make their own decisions. Risking your freedom doesn't make much sense to since the said "crime" already violates your freedom.

Selling books on a Sunday should be banned? You gotta be kidding me. ;) Yes there are laws like this.



Don't worry, no offense taken. My morals? haha! There is always a victim in any crime, including the adult male/female smoking weed "to relax". This is illegal where I live. All too often people don't think of our children and communities when making their choices and decisions.
BTW, the reason my sweetheart is incarcerated is irrelevant. No one was physically hurt, but there are victims just the same. Well of course it makes a difference what he did, the idea is to have our tax money spent towards real crimes like murder, rape, assault, robbery, ect. A responsible gun or drug user is obviously not on the same scale as a rapist. What did he do? You don't have to answer in public if you don't want to, but yeah I don't see why it would be bad to say.

A common argument is to bring children into this. Why don't we ban alcohol too especially since alcohol is the number one drug for crime to begin with (most murders are done while intoxicated on liquor, for instance). Cannabis has been shown to be less damaging than both alcohol and tobacco, and no one has ever died from direct cannabis use. So where's the victim here? And there is such thing as responsible use of anything, just so you know. ;)

The people who make the law are not infallible gods. There are things like unjust laws that probably should be resisted when given a chance to. Otherwise we might as well live in a padded world, with everything that can be harmful banned (say goodbye to certain foods there as well).



People who use a lot of, say, coke will sometimes find themselves paranoid as hell, naked except for a T-shirt wrapped around their head, and robbing a 7-11. Their judgement runs out their ears as the absolutely drug controls their life. They can become psychotic, and symptoms greatly resemble schizophrenia. That doesn't happen much at all with cigs.And this occurs in every single recreational coke user right? Granted the fact that the same thing is done with alcohol. Cocaine and other hard drugs are not so different from alcohol of course. Actually even crazier crimes occur under the influence of datura, and yet datura is 100% legal. Just saying. ;)


"What's the penalty for that? Can you actually go to jail for that I wonder.....and do they enforce that law often?" Up to 6 mos. in county jail as I recall. No, I've never heard of a prosecution.


"I do wonder whether you would go to jail to possess someone's dead mule, seems like you would if it is a felony. Do you know any cases of time spent in prison for said crimes?" It carries up to 1 year in the county; or 16 mos., 2 yrs., or 3 years if probation is denied. Nope, I've never heard of a prosecution.Where did you find these laws? Yeah hearing about any enforcement of these seems unlikely, though I wonder whether there has been an enforcement of it sometime in the distant past.


sending pornography to death row in a legal mail envelope. :thumbsup: yeah it was victimless and you know it marin county. :blah:


That's quite a unique one, death row inmates have needs too, lol.

Gryphon
05-30-2009, 11:15 PM
My previous post: People who use a lot of, say, coke will sometimes find themselves paranoid as hell, naked except for a T-shirt wrapped around their head, and robbing a 7-11. Their judgement runs out their ears as the absolutely drug controls their life. They can become psychotic, and symptoms greatly resemble schizophrenia. That doesn't happen much at all with cigs.
"And this occurs in every single recreational coke user right?"
No. of course not. With coke, lots of people become paranoid and psychotic without robbing the 7-11. Some people are able to be paranoid but not psychotic. For a few, they are able to keep their use to a minimum without suffering psychological symptoms. (Rare, though, since coke has a physical addiction that is ferocious. )
Sadly, I get to professionally meet those who drop off the deep end. There are plenty of folks who do so, despite best efforts not to. (There probably never was a person who set out to be an addict.)

"Granted the fact that the same thing is done with alcohol. Cocaine and other hard drugs are not so different from alcohol of course."
Actually, in some ways they are different. The psychosis that accompanies addiction is more frequent with a number of drugs (including meth and coke) and less true with others (including alcohol and, somewhat surprisingly, heroin).
As far as life destruction goes, it's all bad stuff and isn't a bit good for you.

"Actually even crazier crimes occur under the influence of datura, and yet datura is 100% legal. Just saying."
Crazy crime? I've seen plenty. I suppose you could have regional differences, but out of thousand and thousands of the drug and alcohol related crimes I've dealt with, I've seen only one DUI that was allegedly being under the influence of a legal substance related to datura. For out and out crazy out-of-control violent crime, I'd say meth is number one and coke is number 2. The craziest crime also combines a dose of mental illness as well as alcohol. The combination of a stimulant, a depressant, and an underlying psychosis is toxic.
Datura, or Jimson Weed, tends to effect your vison in ways that makes it fairly difficult to get out into the world and get in trouble. It will cause people to act as if they are insane and people respond to imaginary stimiuli. When I've seen it, it was causing people to go into a coma as a result of overdose. (it seems thet it sneeks up on people, who take more thinking it isn't doing anything. The hallucinations tend to be vivid enough taht people mistake them for reality. They also tend to be frightening. There's a reason this stuff hasn't become wildly popular. It has to be bad stuff when meth is vastly more popular.
"Where did you find these laws?"
They are in the CA penal code. For Grand Theft Avocado, Grand Theft Plankton, Grand Theft Kelp, and Grand Theft Dead Mule, you need look no further than CA Penal Code section 487.

retired-37
06-01-2009, 11:35 AM
Bringing cigarettes or tobacco into a state correctional facility sounds pretty victimless and petty if you ask me..........andy morin