Hi everyone,

I just joined and wanted to introduce myself and share a little bit of my(our) story. I never though I would find myself online as much as I have been, but support is support and thank god everyone I have found in these rooms is the least judgemental of anyone I know...Where I would be without anyone met so far is beyond me, so first - Thank You!

My name is Ann and I am almost 27. My fiance is a wonderful man named Michael who is serving 3-6 years for felony possession of stolen property (trying to support a now former herion habit). Our story is scandulous of sorts and still causes and uprising here at home, but we met when I was working as a nurse in his facility. After a three month "letter writing" affair, we got turned in by another officer (who IS the pot calling the kettle black, but that's a whole new can o' worms), and I was asked to resign my position...

The relationship resumed after three long weeks of silence, as the DOC closed a po box someone else opened for us and had all his letters returned to him..and he still tracked me down. Anyway <deep breath> through all the choices that I have made to be with Michael, I have found myself with no friends, and living with my mother again:argh...

He get out in Dec of 2003 and we plan to be married this July. Bottom line is I love him very much, miss him very much, have learned to depise sleeping alone and feel incredibly isolated from the world for the man I happen to love is not what my family and so-called friends envision for me... thanks for listening and I am looking forward to getting to know all of you!

I it hard to have lost everything to be with someone you care about. There are some women on here who can relate to your story. One even met her man the same way. Working at a prison. So do not feel alone. We are all here to support one another and I am glad that you found us.

Welcome to the site and I look forward to talking with you some more.

Hi Shortie,

Pleasure to meet you!

I have to say what a HUGE relief it is to hear that someone else within the forums met their loved one working in a prison too....I greatly appreciate your pointing that out as I truly have been feeling alone and that I suffer from "terminal uniqueness" which, I know isn't really always the case.

Anyway, thank you for responding and helping lift my mood a bit!

Ann

Hi Ann
Good to meet you. I'm Gillian and my son Lee is incarcerated here in Canada. He has been in and out for 14 years and just went down for another 6 years. You'll find lots of support here. Look forward to talking to you.

Hello Ann!!! I believe I would be the "one" that Shortie was referring to... I was the Program Director of a substance abuse treatment program and met JD as he was forced to participate in our program. I resigned from my position when confronted about "suspicions"... they ended up punishing him anyway, though they didn't have any proof... he is currently doing 6 months in segregation and on "C" grade (which means he can't have any phone priviledges and has severely restricted commissary).... they also took away 2 months of his good time. We too were cut off from ALL communication as DOC was "confiscating" his outgoing mail and incoming mail as "evidence." (even when I was no longer an employee and he had already received the consequence for his ticket...) SO... I can relate to your story COMPLETELY... :) I have had many friends "frown" upon the relationship, but those closest to me have been supportive in spite of their initial reaction and have come to know him through his letters and one friend even went to visit him when I of course could not... another friend plans on going to meet him when I go visit him next... There are many people in my life that I haven't told and have distanced myself from because I know they wouldnt' accept it and quite frankly I don't want to subject myself to have to listen to all that they would say... So.... that is the basics of our common ground!! :) I do extend yet another welcome, and yes it is nice to know we are not alone... :) There is another member whose son met his woman inside the walls too... so, see?? We are really not alone!! I look forward to being able to travel the road together.... Peace....

Welcome to PTO, Mikegrl3! Glad you found us!

Another Welcome here! Love is Love and noone can take that away from us not DOC, family or friends...My husband Stephen is just 2 moths into a two year sentence...look foward to getting to know you! God Bless!

Welcome Ann...you will find this place to be quite an eye opener and a safe haven. Although, I do have one comment. I keep reading in here and have heard in other places about people who became involved with an inmate, then was fired for it and the inmate punished. I'm sorry, but I do not understand what is wrong with forming a relationship with an inmate? Why, even after you quite (or are fired) can you not still write them? Why do they have to be punished. My mind is boggled over this whole idea. Can anyone tell me why the system is so harsh in this area?

Joy :confused:

welcome, girl. I'm sure you'll find a lot of the necessary support on here!

Thank you everyone for your warm welcomes and kind words! I cannot begin to tell you how much they mean to me...To JD's wifey....I am very happy to meet someone in a similar situation...Mike actually didn't get punished for our relationship because of my willingness to stand up for the relationship and tell them that i was just as much a part of the letters as he was. all my so-called friends during that time ran the other way, including my best friend and roommate, as she was told I had our phone number and address "circulating" through population.....how stupid do they really think I am?? So, now I do tend to live in a lot of fear over how to reach out to others and build new friendships once I reveal this piece of me.....The last woman that i revealed this to said she wouldn't judge me, and alas, i haven't heard from her in over two weeks! Not exactly the stuff that gives me faith in the human race, you know..... till next time, ann

yeah, unfortunally too many people roll out on you or call you crazy once you let them know you're in contact with prisoners...people judge too quick :(

Well Ann, I hope the wonderful people here help restore your faith in the human race...this site has been so helpful to me and I hope you get to feel that way as well...

Ann:

Welcome from me also.... My son and his fiancee met at the DOC. She worked there only 3 months when they met. They began writing through the prison mail and talked on occasion. Someone found her letters and she was asked to resign.... He was moved to another prison 300 miles away from home. They visited 8 months and fell in love. I got him moved closer to home in Oct 1991. At that time the DOC told her she could not visit ANY INMATE AT ANY PRISON in North Carolina due to the fact she could be a security risk because she was a DOC employee. This is a rule of the DOC here in this State.

We have gotten lawyers, State Representatives, Federal Senators involved. No One has been able to do a thing. She still cannot visit. They talk on the Phone and write letters daily. Don't know why they have the regulations they do, except all this started in North Carolina when the Susan Smith thing happened in the South Carolina Prison. She was the Mother in South Carolina that murdered her 2 children several years ago. She had been having sex with several of the Guards in the South Carolina Prison. The guards were fired and prosecuted. Now NC is very strick about DOC employee and inmate relationships.

Yes, we really do understand your situation and relate to it. Bless you. It is very hard to stay strong sometimes. There is always tomorrow. We all will be better soon.

Welcome Again

Donna:fb: :fb: :fb:

Joy, there are a number of reasons why they go ballistic (prison administrations) over staff / inmate relationships. Retaliation is one very real reason. They feel they have been betrayed by one of their own so they do what they can to make life uncomfortable for the offending parties.
One of the reasons they usually claim to be the major problems is: "Security Risk". I am not sure how much of an issue that really is if the DOC employee is no longer with the DOC.

I agree with Fed-X on the whole retaliation issue. My former roommate and other friends were told a lot of blatant lies about me during this whole time frame that were believed on the basis of "well, what does the DOC have to lose?" I also was told that I was a security risk and would never be allowed back into the building, I wasn't even allowed to go get my purse and car keys - they had to be retrieved for me....and now here I am visiting the same prison every week.... Some guards definitly put up the whole "betrayal" front and go out their way to make me miserable and others just treat me like any other person..... Which we all are, if you ask me, just any other person walking by on the street....

There is the issue that a prisoner is in a position of being submissive. Guards and other personnel have had the history of taking advantage of being in power for what ever gain they may want. Even though your special relationships are congenial and both are consenting. There are some situations that are demeaning and harmful. People that are incarcerated are lonely, vulnerable and could be taken advantage of by people in authority. In order to protect those who cannot protect themselves from people in authority with evil intentions all relations between prisoner and authority have to be forbidden.

I think another factor in the "taboo" of relationships between DOC employees and inmates (in MY experience at least) is that inmates are not really seen as people within DOC... they are "inmates." At least in my experience, it was inconceivable to most DOC employees (or they didn't care to even consider the possibility) that an inmate could have redeeming qualities, or that they had feelings, etc. Everything was about how inmates are manipulative and needy, etc, etc, etc..... What is so frustrating to me is that officers hook up with officers all the time and other DOC employees (teachers, nurses, etc, etc) are always hooking up and this isn't seen as a problem at all.... I would think this would be just as much of a "security risk" as it would distract someone from doing the job that they were there for... I don't see that much of a difference between me getting involved with JD and 2 officers hooking up... you go to work and are around certain people all day, you get to know them, things happen.... Oh well... I guess some people are determined to be ignorant... I don't care where I found love, I am glad I have found it and I am much happier since making a career change anyway, so I guess this was the path I was meant to take....

I agree wholeheartedly in the sense that inmates are not viewed as people....In Mike's prison, (and bear in my this is my only frame of reference for knowledge) there is a huge sign on the wall when you walk in of the mission statement for the DOC, the first sentence being "We believe people can change...." What a crock! As soon as you get past the lobby and through the secured doors it is a whole new ballgame....Rare is the employee who believes that the inmates are human and can change... I would think it would be hard to actually change when you have x number of employees frowning down on you day after day telling you negative things rather than the staff using the time positively to -god forbid- actually try and reduce the recidivism rate. My experience as an employee was that they are given no skills, no classes, no pre-release counseling, nothing that will help them survive in the free world after release. It's sad, it truly is..

I would just like to say that where Stephen is right now the DOC employees are very wonderful to both me and him..I called today and had to ask the MAjor a question..well he knew Stephen by name (which scared me--was he causing trouble??) well we ended the conversation and he said..Stephen is a real good kid..which stopped me in my tracks...And Stephen has told me about the officers he works with in the kitchen being friendly and even giving him a level of respect...The luietenant said he would give a letter od recomendation of some sort for Stephen's appeal...just though I would share this...And I think it is wonderful that you ladies found your soulmates ..no matter where they were...you are beautiful people because most would not be able to get past the guys present situation and what brought them there...so---CLAP! CLAP! CLAP! CLAP!--I applaud you all who have found love in an inmate!!

Amelia...
:D thanks for the praise... I know for me it wasn't too difficult at all... :)

Amelia,

Your kind words have given me some much needed hope in my situation....I DO consider myself lucky to have found a wonderful man...one of my favorite quotes (i can't remember who said it, consider the author unknown) is "We are the perfect couple, we're just not in the perfect situation"

Ann-glad to meet you and I like that quote-Like i have said somewhere in a post on here before-there are many people who live their entire lives never finding love--so those of us who have are blessed--They say anything worth having is worth working for-I say anyone worth loving is worth waiting for-We can help each other go through the ups and downs of this separation from the ones we love --knowing that we already have what others are desperately seeking and never find. There's a lot of love and support here and i'm so glad you joined our group!

Sherri

Amelia...thanks for sharring about the good things that are happening to you and your husband. I spend so much time wondering and worrying why Juan hasn't called, or 2 days go by without a letter and I wonder what has happened to him. I have a GREAT immagination!:D

However, when you hearing someone tell about the good stuff it helps with the immagination that maybe things arn't as bad and that he is ok. We need to hear more of the good stories and not about all the bad things.

Joy

Where anthony is there are several guards who know who he is. The chaplin came up and even said he was glad to finally meet me because ant always talks about me.. That really blessed me and I was glad to know that people knew him by name and thought he was a good man. I really needed to see that.

Joy-I know all about having an active omagination..that is what brought me to this site..Thanks to Fed-X and the others my fears were calmed...I was freaking out the other day cuz I hadnt heard from steph for the whole day..imagined all kinds of crazy things..turned out he slept late and then went to kitchen duty...oops there I go rambling on...anyway I have found this new place very family friendly and will continue to share my experiences--bad AND GOOD!

Amelia- thanks again for helping us remember that in this time of a lot of "downs', there are still some"ups"

sherri

there really are some ups in this whole process. I guess they are far and few so people really do not mention them that often. Maybe we should start a topic about some of the positive things that we have encountered so that it reminds us that is it not All bad.. Also it would give 1st timers a chance to see the system does have some up sides.

I think an area to talk about the good stuff would be a great idea. There are days, like today, that I come home from work and look at the letters I have to write to Govt. officials, the phone calls, wondering if I will get a letter, is he ok...etc..etc..etc. It would be nice to have an area to go to and hear some good things about what the system has done. Give us some hope in a situation that at times seems hopeless.

Joy

Shortie post it in the suggestions forum..I think it is a great idea..Just last night I was talking with the regular visiting guard and I thanked him for going out of his way to be nice to us families and he was shocked and said wow! have never been thanked for just doing my job the right...ANYWAY I am up to post all my sill lttle positive experieinces..I get so thrilled when DOC is kind or nice..even if it a little thing!

I am so glad to find your post! I have been dealing with the same issue by myself for seven months. I thought I was the only one like this.
I work in a prison and fell in love with an inmate with whom I have contact daily. We did exchange letters but it got too hot so we stopped. Now we still see each other everyday (along with about 20 other inmates in my area). I have heard the whole story of how prisoners are out to use the staff and discard them, this hasn't happened to me. I have not done a thing for my man except write him and say I will be there when he gets out.
This is a very lonely situation though. I know what you mean no one thinks what we are doing is sane. Surely there are some exceptions to the rule? I don't want to lose my job but I don't want to lose my man either. Oh yeah, I'm white and he is black which seems to make a difference to most other people.
Hang in there. I hope we can voice our concerns and hopes here so the world doesn't seem quite so lonely and cold.;)

Dragonlady...hey girl, in this place color doesn't matter. There are all kinds here. We look at people for who they are, not what they look like. I mean, just look at our site manager......:ha: (Sorry David, just can't get over you putting that new avatar in)

Seriously though, don't worry. We are here to talk about feelings and love.

Take care
Joy

The best thing abou thtis site is that there are no social "taboos"..we are who we are and nothing else matters...good luck dragonlady..hang in there...lucky you get to see your man every other day...:(

welcome to PTO! I'm sure you will find the same support and guidance that I was able to here. Stay strong and remember that sometimes it takes something drastic for us to find out who our true friends are.
Michelle

I agree wholeheartedly in the sense that inmates are not viewed as people....In Mike's prison, (and bear in my this is my only frame of reference for knowledge) there is a huge sign on the wall when you walk in of the mission statement for the DOC, the first sentence being "We believe people can change...." What a crock! As soon as you get past the lobby and through the secured doors it is a whole new ballgame....Rare is the employee who believes that the inmates are human and can change... I would think it would be hard to actually change when you have x number of employees frowning down on you day after day telling you negative things rather than the staff using the time positively to -god forbid- actually try and reduce the recidivism rate. My experience as an employee was that they are given no skills, no classes, no pre-release counseling, nothing that will help them survive in the free world after release. It's sad, it truly is..
sorry, ann, but i MUST disagree w/ your assessment of the VT system:confused: i am a vt doc employee, and, while i may be somewhat biased, i feel i have seen more of the system than you have..human/humane treatment is NOT rare..i agree there are\ some staffers who treat inmates as "other", but most of the people i work w/ treat inmates in a respectful way, whether the staff are cos, maintenance, or caseworkers, and irregardless of a man's offense..most of our staff AND inmates survive on the "do unto others" principle, and that has worked for me for 6+ years as a co...while this doesn't work w/ many of the few who commit strong-arming, frequent assaults (on staff/inmate alike), destroy property, throw shit/piss/blood, and generally wreak havoc..those few make life/work difficult/deadly for the staff, and the inmates, and interfere w/ the daily life of those guys who are just trying to "do their own time"..as for your contention that vermont offers no classes, programs, etc, you are way off base...VT offers GED/high school/(all facilities),some college level/computer/graphics, and other advanced and recreational classes, religious activities (type varies by location), art, sports, volunteer opportunities (get a life, from "mike's" facility), culinary arts, automotive, woodworking, metal sign making (windsor, the women got to keep this one:) ), produce over 100,000lbs of organic produce for themselves and the community (st albans and windsor), NA, AA, contact visits for most (excludes drug users), various work for DMV, furniture making, outside work crews (men and women), parenting classes and visits, inkmate run support groups, as well as treatment programs for violent offenders and sex offenders..are we perfect? NO are we trying? YES most are, but these programs/activities are useless for someone interested in nothing more than smoking, doing drugs and watching tv..WE CAN ONLY HELP THOSE WHO WANT TO HELP THEMSELVES..now, i ask you, which was mike????
for those wondering, i am a vt co who does believe that those who want change, can achieve it, but we cannot force long-lasting change on anyone, inmate or not