View Full Version : "N" number and civil addicts commitment


aquiltter
02-13-2009, 01:00 PM
What are the real benefits of the civil addicts commitment? I have read WIC Section 3051, and I know what the CA Penal Code says, but what is the actual truth about this type of commitment? Is it true that if you go to CRC under an "N" number that you have to do all the time (i.e., if it is a 2 yr. commit, you must do 2 yrs, etc.)? If you successfully complete the SAP and are released, can the court just send you back because you were released before your total time is up? Is the length of release 7 years? Or is it longer? Can it be shorter? What do you need to do to be successful on this type of release? Can they return you to prison just 'cuz, or do they need a reason? If someone abides by parole terms/conditions, and stays clean and sober, and goes to school full time, is that successful on CRC release? Does anyone ever succeed on a CRC release? If no one can succeed on this commitment & release, why do good defense attorneys recommend it to their clients?

newkt
02-14-2009, 10:19 PM
why doesn't anyone know anything about this? I haven't met anyone who understands this or has had experience with this.

2sleepy
02-15-2009, 10:48 AM
I am no expert on this, but from what I understand a 'civil commitment' does not result in a felony conviction on the inmates record. The total 'time' they usually serve used to be about 10 to 15 months; but I don't know if that is still correct my info. is from several years ago. Men used to do their time at CRC, but I understand that now they are being sent to various other prisons which have a SAP program, such as SATF. The commitment period lasts for 7 years, during that time they are on parole, and can be sent back to prison a number of times if they violate the rules imposed on them. Attorney's frequently advocate it when the option is a very long sentence, i.e. 5 years or more. The reality is that most inmates spend those 7 years bouncing in and out of prison. It was offered to my son who was facing 36 months- he turned it down, but I guess if he had been facing 10 years he probably would have taken it and dealt with the long parole when the time came.
You might get more information if you post this in the CRC forum, I'm sure there are people who frequent that forum who have loved ones with an N number

Gryphon
02-17-2009, 09:51 PM
I've posted some LONG informational diatribes on this topic. Check for "Gryphon" under the CRC tab located at teh bottom of the CA forums (under "prisons").
Let me know if you can't find it and I'll take a look.

What are the real benefits of the civil addicts commitment? I have read WIC Section 3051, and I know what the CA Penal Code says, but what is the actual truth about this type of commitment? Is it true that if you go to CRC under an "N" number that you have to do all the time (i.e., if it is a 2 yr. commit, you must do 2 yrs, etc.)? If you successfully complete the SAP and are released, can the court just send you back because you were released before your total time is up? Is the length of release 7 years? Or is it longer? Can it be shorter? What do you need to do to be successful on this type of release? Can they return you to prison just 'cuz, or do they need a reason? If someone abides by parole terms/conditions, and stays clean and sober, and goes to school full time, is that successful on CRC release? Does anyone ever succeed on a CRC release? If no one can succeed on this commitment & release, why do good defense attorneys recommend it to their clients?

Gryphon
02-18-2009, 10:10 PM
Here's something I posted in 2007 about CRC. It hasn't changed at all.:

Ah, CRC...
CRC houses the State Prison drug program. Technically, it's a civil commitment. That's why it doesn't count as a 1 year prior prison term enhancement. Participants can't be admitting a strike enhancement, can't have an ugly rap sheet ("Excessive criminality"), and have to be deemed to be an addict or in danger of becoming one. (That's by stipulation; or findings by a psychologist or MD). There is "shall" language in teh statute admitting people to CRC; but there's lots of Judge discretion involved as well. People in CRC have a "N" number instead of a "C" number.
The administration at CRC has a right to refuse inmates. Whether they exclude greatly depends on whether they want inmates or they are overcrowded. Violence, psych meds, dealing, and lots of convictions are all possible reasons to exclude. Even if a Judge sends someone there, they can exclude. Being excluded is bad because it takes a while (months) to return the court, and there's no good time credits until the resentencing.
CRC is a fairly low key situation. Misbehavior means extending the program; or perhaps exclusion. Most people are in CRC to avoid substantial prison sentences, so everyone is being careful to not screw it up. I haven't heard that there are gang problems, violence problems, or guard problems.
As you are likely aware, CRC is until he finishes; around 12 mos. and never faster than 10 mos. Credits earned prior to arrival don't mean anything as far as calculating the date of completion.
CRC parole can last a lot longer than regular parole (up to 6 years). It is much stricter; so a dirty test or technical violation won't result in a second chance. A violation means re-doing the program all over again.
If a violation causes exclusion form the program (an administrative decision), the inmate is returned to the sentencing court for resentencing. During what can be a substantial delay returning to court, teh inmate only earns day for day credit. If the inmate is resentenced to CDCR, the inmate only receives day-for-day credit for CRC time (no conduct credits).
What this can mean is that the inmate can sometimes serve an etire sentence virtually day for day. (An inmate with a 3 year sentence is sent to CRC and later CRC parole violated twice; then excluded; resulting in around 3 years of actual credit for the 3 year sentence.
If an inmate is resentenced to prison, it's a done deal. The inmate already received the prison sentence at the time of sentencing, but the Judge sent the inmate in the alternative to CRC. On resentencing, the court simply imposes teh previously selected sentence.
The CRC program is horrible. Actually, it'd have to improve a lot before it became horrible. It is much better at teaching the inmate how to buy drugs wholesale, on a statewide basis, than treating addiction. It is a way to shorten up a sentence, though; and worth the risk for many inmates. (In fairness, I've had a client or two tell me that they got a little something from it; so it may be better than a sharp kick to the groin.)Inmates who thereafter do a real honest to goodness residential do well overall. Those who don't, tend to do crummy.
Given how CRC credits works, the horrible program, and the strict parole; usually "short timers" opt out of CRC participation.

newkt
02-19-2009, 12:40 AM
I can't thank you enough for your insight, and sharing what you know. Now, tell me this, the best that you can. How is that right, a judge sentencing a man to CRC knowing that he'll be excluded? How did that happen is what I really must know. My husband agreed to CRC because he honestly wanted help for his addiction. We wanted so badly to get into a program, intense program. He was excluded from CRC. Please help me make sense of this all. My husband is now obsessed with getting his whole case corrected.
Thank you.

2sleepy
02-19-2009, 10:28 AM
I am not sure how the judge would 'know' he would be excluded- I think your answer would depend on what you mean by that..

Gryphon
02-19-2009, 10:41 AM
When judges sentence "patients" to CRC it is done with the understanding that CRC has the ability to exclude people for a number of reasons. Reasons can include medications they don't want to deal with, mental health problems, and "excessive criminality". "Excessive criminality" translates into pretty much anything they want it to mean; and the definition depends on whether they want more people or they are full. Having a sales charge, violence, or theft prior could all be reasons to exclude.
Then, there's the case where someone goes to CRC but they are absolutely not eligible. Examples include being on parole or having some other non-CRC sentence pending (aka having an open "c-number"), having a cumulative sentence greater than 6 years, or having admitted a strike enhancement. This kind of error happens when the Judge is missing information, or when the Judge simply has no clue.
There's lots of reasons why the Judge might be missing information. For instance, recently I became aware of a case where an defendant was a parolee, and therefore not able to do CRC. There were a series of many court dates where the prosecution wanted to very mean things to the defendant. Then one day the DA changed and a CRC offer was made. It happed that the regular defense attorney was ill and a different attorney was standing in. The defendant jumped at the offer. The judge either forgot the fact that the defendant was on parole or never knew it. Then the defendant was rejected from CRC, and thereafter returned to court to be sentenced.
In a situaton where the court finds out that the inmate should never have been sent to CRC in teh 1st place, the court will sometimes give local time conduct credits that were't in fact earned to at least in part make up for the error (since the error resulted in only getting day for day credits while at CRC). That isn't the law, it is an issue of fairness and is entirely dependent on the Judge thinking it is a good idea (and also is dependent on the DA not making a fuss).
When a "patient" takes a CRC deal, the court also imposes but suspends a prison term. That's the time that gets imposed if for any reason CRC doesn't work out. If CRC rejects the inmate, some months go by (where they get no conduct credit) and the inmate is returned to court. Once back to court, the already ordered sentence is imposed.
Therefore, when tehe inmate gets a CDCR sentence instead of CRC, it is viewed as fair since thre was never a promise of CRC; and since the prison sentence is in fact exactly what was bargained for (since it was alerady ordered before the inmate left the sentencing court.)

I can't thank you enough for your insight, and sharing what you know. Now, tell me this, the best that you can. How is that right, a judge sentencing a man to CRC knowing that he'll be excluded? How did that happen is what I really must know. My husband agreed to CRC because he honestly wanted help for his addiction. We wanted so badly to get into a program, intense program. He was excluded from CRC. Please help me make sense of this all. My husband is now obsessed with getting his whole case corrected.
Thank you.

aquiltter
02-19-2009, 04:11 PM
Gryphon,
May I PM you about a specific question re: civil addict commit and my son?

newkt
02-20-2009, 01:06 AM
I apologize for distracting from the original question, but thank you for the thread.
Perhaps i will begin another thread because tears and emotion came over me after reading your respose gryphon. thank you Gryphon, i needed to hear this. Not only did I need to hear this but there is someonelse (my husband) who has been searching for this answer, the only thing is this isn't the answer he has been searching for. I am a bit speachless at the momnet but very thankful right now..i really am. I've just wanted to someone to explain to me what happend, in fact i wasn't leaving California without an answer.
However, still, something doesn't feel right at all. I am having a difficult time accepting some things.
thank you for beginning this discussion

aquiltter
02-20-2009, 09:54 AM
newkt
I don't think your question/concern distracted from the question. If anything, it probably helped others who have the same concern about "N" numbers and the civil addict program. I think Gryphon is a tremendous help to us all, and I am glad that you got some answers. Hope all is resolved to the benefit of your husband.

Gryphon
02-20-2009, 04:57 PM
Sure.
Gryphon,
May I PM you about a specific question re: civil addict commit and my son?

aquiltter
02-21-2009, 11:58 AM
Gryphon, Thank you so much for your assistance and information. It is really difficult to not know where to begin to look for answers. In fact, sometimes I get so overwhelmed with the state of the system I don't even know the questions to ask! Again, thank you so much.

Gryphon
02-23-2009, 11:56 PM
You are welcome.
The criminal legal process is a world unto itself, and a hostile environment at that.
Gryphon, Thank you so much for your assistance and information. It is really difficult to not know where to begin to look for answers. In fact, sometimes I get so overwhelmed with the state of the system I don't even know the questions to ask! Again, thank you so much.

HotelCalifornia
07-17-2009, 05:18 PM
With all due respect to the members of this forum, most of the information posted in this thread is incorrect:eek:...sorry. I can't elaborate right now (I'm at work), but I will. "Stay tuned!":thumbsup:

Gryphon
07-18-2009, 12:15 AM
I'd be interested in what you have to say. My experience with CRC is based on having 100 or more clients go through the program over the years. I've seen what happens when they don't make it, and have less experience with those who did. I've spoken to the POs who warned of CRC's pitfalls, but haven't known POs who had a high opinion of the program.
I've read the official material made available from CRC, but much of it seemed inconsistent with teh experiences of my clients. It seems to me that CRC is best used as a way to avoid 4-6 year prison terms, while 16 mo-3 year terms may best be served by avoiding CRC
That having been said, I'm sure that there are those who've thrived at CRC; and every defendant is an individual.

krichbaker62
03-03-2010, 08:52 PM
What are the real benefits of the civil addicts commitment? I have read WIC Section 3051, and I know what the CA Penal Code says, but what is the actual truth about this type of commitment? Is it true that if you go to CRC under an "N" number that you have to do all the time (i.e., if it is a 2 yr. commit, you must do 2 yrs, etc.)? If you successfully complete the SAP and are released, can the court just send you back because you were released before your total time is up? Is the length of release 7 years? Or is it longer? Can it be shorter? What do you need to do to be successful on this type of release? Can they return you to prison just 'cuz, or do they need a reason? If someone abides by parole terms/conditions, and stays clean and sober, and goes to school full time, is that successful on CRC release? Does anyone ever succeed on a CRC release? If no one can succeed on this commitment & release, why do good defense attorneys recommend it to their clients? I am an N number N77880 to be exaxct. IF you plan on getting cleann and staying clean the N number has its benifits. I was sentenced to 6 years did 14 1/2 5 in county jail the rest 9 1/2 at crc did my SAP program months got released to a residential program did 90 days completed my parole and waited for the paperwork my PO sent to CRC got a court date and was discharged no problems. You are required to do regular ua's and check in every other week. In order to be eligible you have to have a sentence of 6 years or less. but i know people who have been recomitted for violations and have been there 7 times. They can keep you there if you are not making satisfactory progress. you go before a SaP panel of counselors and CDC officers. they ask you questions about what triggers your addiction what your relapse prevention plans are basically drill you to make sure your ready to reenter society then you go before the prison board same routine. Sounds like a lot of hassle but it was a great progam for me.i'm still clean just celibrated 4 years feb 23 2010 i graduated college with A.A. in Psychology and if i took a regualr number i would have did an additional 21 1/2 months locked up so for me it worked.

towace
01-20-2011, 11:20 PM
I was a n# also in county for 2 months ,in crc for 9 months, tested every tuesday for 21 months. committed 11/7/1990 discharged 5/25/1993. Actual time behind bars was 11 months on a 5 year sentence. i had no problems with testing as i did no drugs after "boot camp" I was only 1 of the 2% who made it work the first time. I met one guy who was back for the 11th time. it was not uncommon as they had some kinda program where u could turn yourself in and do 30 to 90 day dryout without starting over. I also saw a few guys who got busted before getting on the bus home and were back in a week. did it work for me? well..... i did drugs after released from parole but i have not had any any arrest since.im still self employed,still have the same wife, have paid off my home,and still do some dope when i want to.i still have the same friends and i truly believe that the only one that controls my behavure is me.They did have some classes that were we required to attend..but the classes were very lame. out of 11 months only 8 weeks were in those classes and that was only 3 or 4 hours a day.only one person put me in crc only one person kept me out of crc ME

towace
01-20-2011, 11:31 PM
oh yes by the way the reason im here is i had my case exponged in 2008 something has been bothering me since that day in court and since my attn has retired and i cant ask him what the judge meant when he said(the judge) "I geuss he(me) will have it both ways now" That statment was made when the DA said i didnt need the expongment . does this make any sense to anyone? Im looking for that answer HELP PLEASE. the expongment was 1203.4 charges were 11379.6a felony

lovemyhubby2011
11-13-2011, 12:20 PM
When judges sentence "patients" to CRC it is done with the understanding that CRC has the ability to exclude people for a number of reasons. Reasons can include medications they don't want to deal with, mental health problems, and "excessive criminality". "Excessive criminality" translates into pretty much anything they want it to mean; and the definition depends on whether they want more people or they are full. Having a sales charge, violence, or theft prior could all be reasons to exclude.
Then, there's the case where someone goes to CRC but they are absolutely not eligible. Examples include being on parole or having some other non-CRC sentence pending (aka having an open "c-number"), having a cumulative sentence greater than 6 years, or having admitted a strike enhancement. This kind of error happens when the Judge is missing information, or when the Judge simply has no clue.
There's lots of reasons why the Judge might be missing information. For instance, recently I became aware of a case where an defendant was a parolee, and therefore not able to do CRC. There were a series of many court dates where the prosecution wanted to very mean things to the defendant. Then one day the DA changed and a CRC offer was made. It happed that the regular defense attorney was ill and a different attorney was standing in. The defendant jumped at the offer. The judge either forgot the fact that the defendant was on parole or never knew it. Then the defendant was rejected from CRC, and thereafter returned to court to be sentenced.
In a situaton where the court finds out that the inmate should never have been sent to CRC in teh 1st place, the court will sometimes give local time conduct credits that were't in fact earned to at least in part make up for the error (since the error resulted in only getting day for day credits while at CRC). That isn't the law, it is an issue of fairness and is entirely dependent on the Judge thinking it is a good idea (and also is dependent on the DA not making a fuss).
When a "patient" takes a CRC deal, the court also imposes but suspends a prison term. That's the time that gets imposed if for any reason CRC doesn't work out. If CRC rejects the inmate, some months go by (where they get no conduct credit) and the inmate is returned to court. Once back to court, the already ordered sentence is imposed.
Therefore, when tehe inmate gets a CDCR sentence instead of CRC, it is viewed as fair since thre was never a promise of CRC; and since the prison sentence is in fact exactly what was bargained for (since it was alerady ordered before the inmate left the sentencing court.)


so u r tellin me my husband is in crc and i got a lawyer to try and get him exclude for program falurie and if it works and he gets exculde he will go back to court and have to do all the time he has already done in a cdcr??????:confused:

Gryphon
11-14-2011, 11:55 PM
so u r tellin me my husband is in crc and i got a lawyer to try and get him exclude for program falurie and if it works and he gets exculde he will go back to court and have to do all the time he has already done in a cdcr??????:confused:

If he's excluded from CRC, he gets day for day credit (no conduct credit) applied towards his sentence (up until the date of resentencing) for his time at CRC. Once excluded, there is a delay in getting back to court for resentencing, so maybe another 3 or 4 mos. without conduct credits. He's also get credit for the local time he spent on his case prior to being sentenced to CRC.

lovemyhubby2011
11-20-2011, 08:24 PM
If he's excluded from CRC, he gets day for day credit (no conduct credit) applied towards his sentence (up until the date of resentencing) for his time at CRC. Once excluded, there is a delay in getting back to court for resentencing, so maybe another 3 or 4 mos. without conduct credits. He's also get credit for the local time he spent on his case prior to being sentenced to CRC.

im still a little confused my husband was orignally sentenced to 3 years 8 months he has all that time in he is trying to self exclued himself my attorney is tryin to get him make to county and do the exclusion process while he is in county someone told me that wont happen im sooo confused i here so much am i on the right track:confused:

Gryphon
11-21-2011, 08:49 PM
im still a little confused my husband was orignally sentenced to 3 years 8 months he has all that time in he is trying to self exclued himself my attorney is tryin to get him make to county and do the exclusion process while he is in county someone told me that wont happen im sooo confused i here so much am i on the right track:confused:
I think that CRC exclusion will have to happen at CRC. That has been my experience dealing with clients in similar situations.

lovemyhubby2011
11-23-2011, 06:13 PM
so have u seen people get exculde by self exculding??? and come home if all there time is in

Gryphon
11-24-2011, 12:45 AM
so have u seen people get exculde by self exculding??? and come home if all there time is in
I've seen CRC patients talk their way into exclusion, and then returned to court. They still had time to serve, though.

lovemyhubby2011
11-24-2011, 04:20 PM
well i heard if all there time is in and they get exculde they will get out and get a regular number my question is once he gets to county does he just get relased from there or does he have to go back to crc and deal with stuff there???

Gryphon
11-24-2011, 11:14 PM
well i heard if all there time is in and they get exculde they will get out and get a regular number my question is once he gets to county does he just get relwased from there or does he have to go back to crc and deal with stuff there???
Usually back to CDCR reception. although sometimes a local release.

takensosoon
11-25-2011, 06:18 PM
Gryphon you seem to know alot about the civil commitment N number and I have posted several different questions and I can't seem to get a response could you please answer any of my questions below
My friend has a N number (civil addict commitment) he was scheduled to be off parole in Feb 2012. On Oct. 14, 2011 he was picked up on (false) accusations that he used a stolen credit card the picture the cops were using to ask questions showed it clearly was not him. They dropped the charges however kept him on a parole hold for a violation (no informing his PO of his new address change. ) This will be his 3rd violation (DUI, & in possession of pepper spray) his original sentencing was in 2005. He has done a total of 6years already and 3 of it straight time. Since Oct 14 he had sat in county for 20 days and now 20 days later he is still at reception in tracy and this is ALL dead time. From what I can understand from his letter is he thought some time last week he would be shipped back down to CRC in Norco where he "will learn of his fate" . that being said(1) can anyone tell me does the realignment laws pertain to him since he he is a civil addict. We spoke to his parole officer who said he will go back to CRC where he will do the program again either 6 months or 12 months. (2) is there a chance he can COP (3) what can he do to hurry the process so time can start? (4) He has asked me to find out about exclusion and Limited Placement? Please if anyone can answer these questions I would be ever so grateful.

Gryphon
11-26-2011, 09:48 PM
If the violation is served at CRC, realignment has no effect.
If he gets out of CRC and is sentenced on the 6 year term, then realignment applies IF the original sentence falls within the terms of 1370(h) as effective Oct. 1, 2011. It'd then depend on exactly what counts he was convicted on. 11270(h) applies to non-violent, non-strike, non-gang, and not on a whole list of exceptions.

Gryphon you seem to know alot about the civil commitment N number and I have posted several different questions and I can't seem to get a response could you please answer any of my questions below
My friend has a N number (civil addict commitment) he was scheduled to be off parole in Feb 2012. On Oct. 14, 2011 he was picked up on (false) accusations that he used a stolen credit card the picture the cops were using to ask questions showed it clearly was not him. They dropped the charges however kept him on a parole hold for a violation (no informing his PO of his new address change. ) This will be his 3rd violation (DUI, & in possession of pepper spray) his original sentencing was in 2005. He has done a total of 6years already and 3 of it straight time. Since Oct 14 he had sat in county for 20 days and now 20 days later he is still at reception in tracy and this is ALL dead time. From what I can understand from his letter is he thought some time last week he would be shipped back down to CRC in Norco where he "will learn of his fate" . that being said(1) can anyone tell me does the realignment laws pertain to him since he he is a civil addict. We spoke to his parole officer who said he will go back to CRC where he will do the program again either 6 months or 12 months. (2) is there a chance he can COP (3) what can he do to hurry the process so time can start? (4) He has asked me to find out about exclusion and Limited Placement? Please if anyone can answer these questions I would be ever so grateful.

takensosoon
11-28-2011, 11:41 AM
Thanks so much for your quick reply. If you don't mind I have just a couple more questions. I have not been able to talk to him and I m just curious if he has found out what his time will be ? Do you think that he might be able to COP or does it look like he might get the full 12 months again?

Gryphon
11-29-2011, 12:28 AM
Thanks so much for your quick reply. If you don't mind I have just a couple more questions. I have not been able to talk to him and I m just curious if he has found out what his time will be ? Do you think that he might be able to COP or does it look like he might get the full 12 months again?
A CRC violation is a program do-over (taking 10-12 mos.)

takensosoon
12-15-2011, 07:05 AM
A CRC violation is a program do-over (taking 10-12 mos.)

I just found out that his parole officer recommended the LP he had his cal pu and he said it looks like they are going to recommend the LP and he thinks he will be out in feb. I know you said 10-12 months but do you think this could be the case for a LP and is it possible it would be shorter then the 10-12 Mo.?

Gryphon
12-16-2011, 12:04 PM
If CRC parole continues, as far as I know a VOP results in a program do-over. A CRC program takes 10-12 mos. to complete. If things have changed, that'd be news to me. Yes, procedures can change and if they changed recently I might not have heard about it.

If CRC parole is terminated, then he is resentenced to the original CDC sentence. If that happens, he gets presentence credits, and then day-for-day credits (no conduct credits at CRC) thereafter. That might move his release date to be sooner depending on his credits.

I just found out that his parole officer recommended the LP he had his cal pu and he said it looks like they are going to recommend the LP and he thinks he will be out in feb. I know you said 10-12 months but do you think this could be the case for a LP and is it possible it would be shorter then the 10-12 Mo.?

takensosoon
12-21-2011, 05:09 PM
Thank you for your response, im not sure if we are on the same page so I wanted to clarify my question. He is under the impression he is not getting the full for VOP but is getting the Limited Placement which means he would not have to do the full 10-12 months. My question is regarding the limited placement and his getting out sooner becouse of so?

If CRC parole continues, as far as I know a VOP results in a program do-over. A CRC program takes 10-12 mos. to complete. If things have changed, that'd be news to me. Yes, procedures can change and if they changed recently I might not have heard about it.

If CRC parole is terminated, then he is resentenced to the original CDC sentence. If that happens, he gets presentence credits, and then day-for-day credits (no conduct credits at CRC) thereafter. That might move his release date to be sooner depending on his credits.

Gryphon
12-21-2011, 07:29 PM
Sorry, if the option of Limited Placement exists for a CRC parole violation, that's something I haven't heard of before. That doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I'm a trial attorney, so I would seldom deal with an issue like this. What I know about CRC violations was conveyed by a parole agent who handled CRC violations (and that was provided to me quite a while ago.) (The parole agent was complaining to me about how CRC parole violations leave the supervising parole officer with littlle discretion, that they violated on everything and that there was just the one punishment if the parollee wasn't excluded from CRC. The parole officer was of the opinion that this way of handling violations was a good reason to not want to go to CRC.)

Thank you for your response, im not sure if we are on the same page so I wanted to clarify my question. He is under the impression he is not getting the full for VOP but is getting the Limited Placement which means he would not have to do the full 10-12 months. My question is regarding the limited placement and his getting out sooner becouse of so?

takensosoon
01-18-2012, 12:52 PM
Gryphon you have so much knowledge about this exclusion N number mess and I am ever so grateful to read your post to gain some understanding of it all. Originally I had asked you about possibility of a limited placement. Apparently in order for LP to be an option one must turn themselves in at the gate or to their parole agent. This is such a bummer as my heart had been riding on the possibility that he might actually be coming home soon.:( The next option he is considering is an exclusion as his brother n law had hired an attorney who was apparently able to bring him back to county during the process and was excluded successfully. With having already been in custody since middle of oct 2011 for this violation he figures with a do over he would be home sometime around aug sept 2012 which would be about the same time the extra 3 to 4 months for exclusion would take. I am not exactly sure of the original time he was sentenced but know that he has done a total of 6 years including his now 3rd time back for violations. With all this being said does an exclusion seem to make sense for him. How does one go about possibly appealing the decision regarding LP since turning yourself in at the gate is not an option if you live as far away north from the facility as he does and with set plan and option in place for choosing treatment if in fact LP was granted? What is the process for him to begin the exclusion if that is the option that seems to make more sense and is it possible that an attorney could have been provided as it appears to be according to the information I seen on cdcr boph website regarding information for attorneys with civil addict MDO cases.(I do not have enough points to post url) The whole idea in his hopes to get an LP was to be home with his so very young son who is missing out on having his Dad in his life and had planned on paroling to a residential treatment program for 3 months and another 3 months in a transitional living where he could work and attend school to be a drug and alcohol counselor prior to being violated. It just seems too make so much sense to have someone who is so willing to do what it takes to stay clean and sober with such a desire to be a productive member of society while playing an active role in his child's life, then to do a do over in a program that had him sitting on dead time doing absolutely nothing without any rehabilitation what so ever for now over 3 months. Any opinion or suggestion you have are openly invited and thank you so much for your time.

Gryphon
01-18-2012, 07:47 PM
Limited Placement is not a process I'm familiar with, so I can't help you with that. If it happens, it'd probably never come to my attention. It is an administrative process, so you'd first have to determine if there is any availabel administrative review. After that, you'd bring a writ of Habeus Corpus arguing that the administrative procedures can't pass a rational basis test (which is about the lowest evidentiary burden in law. Is there anything to support an argumetn that they aren't crazy?) Finding out about Administrative appeals can be very painful, and the information is often in some dusty Administrative Code. Writ procedure can be studied via California Appeals and Writs published by CEB (at a law library).

Getting excluded needs to begin at CRC. Once they exclude, they notify the sentencing court that there is a need to transport, or a lawyer can get a judge to sign an order for production. The sentencing judge then resentences and executes the previously stayed prison term that was imposed at the original sentence. The Inmate is then sent to CDCR reception.
I have seen it done incorrectly, but it worked out. A judge did an order of production, resentenced, and then CDCR excluded when the inmate was delivered to reception. I've tried to do it that way because otherwise there are months of waiting for transport back to the county jail if the Judge doesn't want to sign the order of production. that's bad because there is only day for day credit (no conduct credit) until resentencing happens.
When resentenced, credits are calculated. CRC time is only day for day (no conduct credit). Presentence credits before CRC was imposed gets conduct credits.

I don't know if the inmate's math is right. It certainly could be. he needs to figure out what his total credits will be (including conduct credits, and understanding that CRC is only day for day and isn't resentenced to include conduct credits. Adding the credits is a common error.

Gryphon you have so much knowledge about this exclusion N number mess and I am ever so grateful to read your post to gain some understanding of it all. Originally I had asked you about possibility of a limited placement. Apparently in order for LP to be an option one must turn themselves in at the gate or to their parole agent. This is such a bummer as my heart had been riding on the possibility that he might actually be coming home soon.:( The next option he is considering is an exclusion as his brother n law had hired an attorney who was apparently able to bring him back to county during the process and was excluded successfully. With having already been in custody since middle of oct 2011 for this violation he figures with a do over he would be home sometime around aug sept 2012 which would be about the same time the extra 3 to 4 months for exclusion would take. I am not exactly sure of the original time he was sentenced but know that he has done a total of 6 years including his now 3rd time back for violations. With all this being said does an exclusion seem to make sense for him. How does one go about possibly appealing the decision regarding LP since turning yourself in at the gate is not an option if you live as far away north from the facility as he does and with set plan and option in place for choosing treatment if in fact LP was granted? What is the process for him to begin the exclusion if that is the option that seems to make more sense and is it possible that an attorney could have been provided as it appears to be according to the information I seen on cdcr boph website regarding information for attorneys with civil addict MDO cases.(I do not have enough points to post url) The whole idea in his hopes to get an LP was to be home with his so very young son who is missing out on having his Dad in his life and had planned on paroling to a residential treatment program for 3 months and another 3 months in a transitional living where he could work and attend school to be a drug and alcohol counselor prior to being violated. It just seems too make so much sense to have someone who is so willing to do what it takes to stay clean and sober with such a desire to be a productive member of society while playing an active role in his child's life, then to do a do over in a program that had him sitting on dead time doing absolutely nothing without any rehabilitation what so ever for now over 3 months. Any opinion or suggestion you have are openly invited and thank you so much for your time.

takensosoon
01-22-2012, 01:34 AM
Thank you!! I am here to bug you so more (sorry) he feels strongly that he should do an exclusion. You mention it starts at CRC are you able to tell me how? He has no clue and the conditions there he says are nothing of rehabilitating. This will be his 4th time doing the program and feels exclustion would be in his best interest. He believes he is past his program expiration date. Do you know how and what is the best process any suggestions would be so helpful. I am beginning to worry about him. He has remained so positive throughout this whole ordeal. The more he is away from his 2 year yearl old the more its hurting him inside and beings he has to again sit for a whole month more before a program even starts he is really beginning to loose hopes. This will be four months now that he has just sat with no program in the Rehabilitating system. My last question to you is regarding one of the violations he is in there for they found some pot or maybe it was just a pipe he has a prescription would it hurt him or help him to send a copy of it?

Gryphon
01-23-2012, 12:33 PM
No, I don't know how the exclusion process begins at CRC. That process was completed before the client returned to court for resentencing and didn't involve an attorney.

If he had a valid note from an MD that covers the time of arrest, that might possibly help (depending on what parole wants to do to him). Send the information to the inmate.
Thank you!! I am here to bug you so more (sorry) he feels strongly that he should do an exclusion. You mention it starts at CRC are you able to tell me how? He has no clue and the conditions there he says are nothing of rehabilitating. This will be his 4th time doing the program and feels exclustion would be in his best interest. He believes he is past his program expiration date. Do you know how and what is the best process any suggestions would be so helpful. I am beginning to worry about him. He has remained so positive throughout this whole ordeal. The more he is away from his 2 year yearl old the more its hurting him inside and beings he has to again sit for a whole month more before a program even starts he is really beginning to loose hopes. This will be four months now that he has just sat with no program in the Rehabilitating system. My last question to you is regarding one of the violations he is in there for they found some pot or maybe it was just a pipe he has a prescription would it hurt him or help him to send a copy of it?

TurnerMama
05-07-2012, 12:11 AM
Here's something I posted in 2007 about CRC. It hasn't changed at all.:

Ah, CRC...
CRC houses the State Prison drug program. Technically, it's a civil commitment. That's why it doesn't count as a 1 year prior prison term enhancement. Participants can't be admitting a strike enhancement, can't have an ugly rap sheet ("Excessive criminality"), and have to be deemed to be an addict or in danger of becoming one. (That's by stipulation; or findings by a psychologist or MD). There is "shall" language in teh statute admitting people to CRC; but there's lots of Judge discretion involved as well. People in CRC have a "N" number instead of a "C" number.
The administration at CRC has a right to refuse inmates. Whether they exclude greatly depends on whether they want inmates or they are overcrowded. Violence, psych meds, dealing, and lots of convictions are all possible reasons to exclude. Even if a Judge sends someone there, they can exclude. Being excluded is bad because it takes a while (months) to return the court, and there's no good time credits until the resentencing.
CRC is a fairly low key situation. Misbehavior means extending the program; or perhaps exclusion. Most people are in CRC to avoid substantial prison sentences, so everyone is being careful to not screw it up. I haven't heard that there are gang problems, violence problems, or guard problems.
As you are likely aware, CRC is until he finishes; around 12 mos. and never faster than 10 mos. Credits earned prior to arrival don't mean anything as far as calculating the date of completion.
CRC parole can last a lot longer than regular parole (up to 6 years). It is much stricter; so a dirty test or technical violation won't result in a second chance. A violation means re-doing the program all over again.
If a violation causes exclusion form the program (an administrative decision), the inmate is returned to the sentencing court for resentencing. During what can be a substantial delay returning to court, teh inmate only earns day for day credit. If the inmate is resentenced to CDCR, the inmate only receives day-for-day credit for CRC time (no conduct credits).
What this can mean is that the inmate can sometimes serve an etire sentence virtually day for day. (An inmate with a 3 year sentence is sent to CRC and later CRC parole violated twice; then excluded; resulting in around 3 years of actual credit for the 3 year sentence.
If an inmate is resentenced to prison, it's a done deal. The inmate already received the prison sentence at the time of sentencing, but the Judge sent the inmate in the alternative to CRC. On resentencing, the court simply imposes teh previously selected sentence.
The CRC program is horrible. Actually, it'd have to improve a lot before it became horrible. It is much better at teaching the inmate how to buy drugs wholesale, on a statewide basis, than treating addiction. It is a way to shorten up a sentence, though; and worth the risk for many inmates. (In fairness, I've had a client or two tell me that they got a little something from it; so it may be better than a sharp kick to the groin.)Inmates who thereafter do a real honest to goodness residential do well overall. Those who don't, tend to do crummy.
Given how CRC credits works, the horrible program, and the strict parole; usually "short timers" opt out of CRC participation.


Hey Everyone,
My fiancé just got picked up for a parole violation. This vicious process started in 2009 when he was sentenced to 6 years in prison for sales of a controlled substance (steroids) and insurance fraud (white collar crime). He did 10 months in CRC, Norco and was sent to a 3 month inpatient rehab program. He got kicked out of the rehab program and his parole officer had him repeat the process again of going back to CRC and going back to the rehab program. In 2011 he got out of CRC and went back to rehab where he got kicked out again, instead of talking to his parole officer he went on the run for 14 months. We came back to California for his job. On his way to work he was pulled over for “tinted windows” and from there he got taken into custody because he had an outstanding warrant for absconding. His charge is violation of parole. My fiancé has an “N” number… he wants to get excluded, but from what I have read on here being excluded from the “N” number would be a long drawn out process and he might end up doing more time. I heard about the REALIGNMENT ACT, which stops parole violators from going back to prison… is this true? Will he have to go back to CRC because of the “N” number? I am so sad and lost; I do not have any idea as to how much time he will be facing. I know that California has changed their laws regarding parolees in the past year. Our first child is due June 18th… will he be out before then? I need advice. My fiancé said that if he gets on the court calendar then he can go before a judge and ask to be excluded. He also believes that because he was gone for a year that he will automatically be excluded from the “N” number. Also, has anyone heard on the REALIGNMENT ACT? Please help, any advice will be greatly appreciated. He is in DVI Tracy now… is he just waiting for a parole hearing? I got him an attorney, from what you have said it sounds like he won't get a parole hearing at Tracy, he'll have to handel everything at CRC. Is this a done deal and will he pretty much just have to do the program all over again?

2sleepy
05-07-2012, 10:24 AM
Hey Everyone,
My fiancé just got picked up for a parole violation. This vicious process started in 2009 when he was sentenced to 6 years in prison for sales of a controlled substance (steroids) and insurance fraud (white collar crime). He did 10 months in CRC, Norco and was sent to a 3 month inpatient rehab program. He got kicked out of the rehab program and his parole officer had him repeat the process again of going back to CRC and going back to the rehab program. In 2011 he got out of CRC and went back to rehab where he got kicked out again, instead of talking to his parole officer he went on the run for 14 months. We came back to California for his job. On his way to work he was pulled over for “tinted windows” and from there he got taken into custody because he had an outstanding warrant for absconding. His charge is violation of parole. My fiancé has an “N” number… he wants to get excluded, but from what I have read on here being excluded from the “N” number would be a long drawn out process and he might end up doing more time. I heard about the REALIGNMENT ACT, which stops parole violators from going back to prison… is this true? Will he have to go back to CRC because of the “N” number? I am so sad and lost; I do not have any idea as to how much time he will be facing. I know that California has changed their laws regarding parolees in the past year. Our first child is due June 18th… will he be out before then? I need advice. My fiancé said that if he gets on the court calendar then he can go before a judge and ask to be excluded. He also believes that because he was gone for a year that he will automatically be excluded from the “N” number. Also, has anyone heard on the REALIGNMENT ACT? Please help, any advice will be greatly appreciated. He is in DVI Tracy now… is he just waiting for a parole hearing? I got him an attorney, from what you have said it sounds like he won't get a parole hearing at Tracy, he'll have to handel everything at CRC. Is this a done deal and will he pretty much just have to do the program all over again?
I think you posted this in another forum and I responded, but in case you didn't see that... unfortunately they didn't address "N numbers" in the laws that constitute 'realignment' so it appears he will have to re-do the program in prison. It is hard to get excluded, but maybe his absconding for 14 months will cause him to be excluded, I just don't know. If he is excluded he will have to do his original sentence, he will only get day for day credit for any time he has done. You said you hired him an attorney, hopefully they are experienced enough in these matters that they should be able to give you better advice than I can.

Gryphon
05-08-2012, 09:11 AM
I read a memo last week from CDCR CRC that says they'll be closing the program. It didn't say exactly when, it didn't say what happens to people currently in the program. The problem is that there are no new inmates coming into the program since last October when drug possession crimes are "county prison" sentences if probation is denied.
Another thing that might happen is additional legislation that allows counties to move inmates to CRC, or even an entirely different program.
Things are very much up in the air.
If CRC goes away or he is excluded, he is sentenced back in the original sentencing court, that sentence to be the number he originally received when he was sent to CRC. He'd then serve that sentence in teh county jail. The sentencing court could make him serve the whole number (less credits including day for day (no conduct credit) on CRC time already served. On the other hand, he could serve a portion and have the balance be his supervision time.
Therefore it would be very difficult to predict how all this will play out.

Hey Everyone,
My fiancé just got picked up for a parole violation. This vicious process started in 2009 when he was sentenced to 6 years in prison for sales of a controlled substance (steroids) and insurance fraud (white collar crime). He did 10 months in CRC, Norco and was sent to a 3 month inpatient rehab program. He got kicked out of the rehab program and his parole officer had him repeat the process again of going back to CRC and going back to the rehab program. In 2011 he got out of CRC and went back to rehab where he got kicked out again, instead of talking to his parole officer he went on the run for 14 months. We came back to California for his job. On his way to work he was pulled over for “tinted windows” and from there he got taken into custody because he had an outstanding warrant for absconding. His charge is violation of parole. My fiancé has an “N” number… he wants to get excluded, but from what I have read on here being excluded from the “N” number would be a long drawn out process and he might end up doing more time. I heard about the REALIGNMENT ACT, which stops parole violators from going back to prison… is this true? Will he have to go back to CRC because of the “N” number? I am so sad and lost; I do not have any idea as to how much time he will be facing. I know that California has changed their laws regarding parolees in the past year. Our first child is due June 18th… will he be out before then? I need advice. My fiancé said that if he gets on the court calendar then he can go before a judge and ask to be excluded. He also believes that because he was gone for a year that he will automatically be excluded from the “N” number. Also, has anyone heard on the REALIGNMENT ACT? Please help, any advice will be greatly appreciated. He is in DVI Tracy now… is he just waiting for a parole hearing? I got him an attorney, from what you have said it sounds like he won't get a parole hearing at Tracy, he'll have to handel everything at CRC. Is this a done deal and will he pretty much just have to do the program all over again?