View Full Version : Gangs and TDCJ


psikocat
12-12-2008, 10:25 AM
Ok, I am probably stirring the pot here but I would really like to get a reasonable discussion about gangs in prisons started. I would especially like to hear from the CO's (you know who you are). I think I might be somewhat naive and I would like to be better informed. I am in no way condoning gangs, I find the whole idea repugnant (especially since most of the gangs seem to be racially divided) and I know that most gangs are heavily into drugs and other activities. However, I feel like there is something that lures people to join them. In the free world, when you talk to people who don't have much involvement with our criminal system, they seem to automatically assume that when you go to prison, it is inevitable that you be involved in a gang for whatever reason (usually for protection). How many of you believe this? I know that violence begats more violence but at what point to you point to the cause? I personally feel like if you house non-violent offenders with violent offenders is contributes to a situation where people feel unsafe. Take my hubby. He never has had a charge where someone else was hurt. I don't deny that he broke the law and should be punished. But to take a 19 yo (at the time) boy and put him into a prison with people who have violent histories (and at this point I just want to say that I am not judging anyone, I have family members that are violent offenders and I know that they are not all bad people, I am just trying to prove a point) and that can lead to situations where people are attacked or worse before they learn how to survive in a prison setting. What recourse does someone have to protect themselves from potential harm? I know that is part of the guard's job, but they are not supermen who can be everywhere at once. I also don't believe that just because you broke the law, that means that is doesn't matter if you get raped or stabbed by a fellow inmate. Doesn't having someone at least in partial watching your back help? Are there any groups that inmates can join that is just based on friendship and mutual trust without the violence and drugs and such? I think that there is always going to be people that want to make trouble and harm others but how many gang members are there because they want to have a (false?) sense of security, accomplishment or just a sense that they are not alone in dealing with the daily life of prison? What can be done to make prisons an environment that discourages gang activity without putting every gang member in Ad Seg?

Bchace74
12-12-2008, 11:11 AM
OK I will comment on what I know, many join for security for alot of pressure. To feel important and just live a fast life - adrainiline (yeah spelled that wrong)- rush feeling. To have respect _they think-
Don't think they realize what blood in blood out truly means or think that far ahead when 1st join. Not sure how to stop this maybe have more inmates involved in STG's talk to these 1st time offenders, tell them what is like to not be able to get out and do what someone orders u to do, to lose friends , family and homeboys. To potential spend ur life in and out of prison maybe even your whole life. This may discouarge some but not all. STG should work with people not just focus on confirming to lock them away. Most STG's I have met are on power kicks that is not helpful now is it. They say Pure Tango blast was supposed to be just a clique to protect each other but???? I know TS and PTB are at war so if not involved in extortion, drugs what have u why would TS care? Most cliques - organizations are involved in some type of (use loosely) enterprise. Funny this fund is suppose to go to the members incarcerated and thier families which i am sure doesn't happen so where does it go. Gangs are STUPID and a waste of many lives but it is what it is and alot are involved in one way or another sadly.

Scottsforever
12-12-2008, 11:29 AM
I to would be interested in some input on that subject. my husband is down in Willacy by the border. He is white and very much a minority. There are only about 5 -10 white inmates out of 1500. Thanksgiving day after dinner in the cafeteria some guy just jumped him. He has no idea who this inmate is or why he was jumped. My husband would never affiliate with a gang, not even for protection. He keeps to himself, is trustee, goes to class, and works. Because of this he was placed in Ad Seg "protective custody" for almost 2 weeks for an investigation. He could not work or go to class. Than when he was questioned about the incident, the chief of security actually told him that he probably set it up or instigated it so that he could be moved. What a crock!! He does have a degree from UT, and helped them to set up a program so that he could work. He tutors inmates and helps them with their GED's. The other guy received no disciplinary action whatsoever. My husband just keeps to himself. He did make parole but will still be in for almost another year. He has been approached by a couple of gangs but he won't budge. I suppose one of those factors might have pissed someone off. It must be very difficult to stay away from the pressure put upon them by the gangs as they seem to be very prevalent. He is in a dorm with about 50 other inmates, so staying away from everyone associated with gangs is impossible.

outlaw.women
12-12-2008, 11:38 AM
Gangs are out of control in TDCJ I think if they are caught and a confirmed member of a gang, they should spend the remainder of their incarceration in this Ag-Seg. Gangs cause new comers to join or live a life of fear while in. It really makes me sick and I have seen it first time in TDCJ.

This 2009, and race really should divide us any longer. I think a lot of or let me say all gang members are scared more than they let on and I would like to see them all come together.

outlaw.women
12-12-2008, 11:49 AM
I myself as been involved with work at TDCJ, I'd like to say it is 2009, race should no longer divide us.
I think they should know if you become a gang confirmed member, then no matter how much time you have, you do everyday in Ag-Seg.
They mess up young offenders, which might have came in, done their time, learned something.
No, they have to make them feel in fear of their life while doing time in TDCJ. Either join or..............
I think gang members should get the hard end, and really punish them, brand them some say. But, they do that themselves, look at all their tattoos. It will really make you sick.

Hope not to touch a nerve, just what I have seen and I know.

Bchace74
12-12-2008, 12:25 PM
everyone is entitled to thier opinions and when confirmed they do live in Ad-seg. That is not the answer and more detrimental to be locked up in seg. Just my 2 sense. I think if STG and a knuckle head yes seg but still should be reviewed for release back to gen-pop at a later time. The side effects of Seg is worse IMO and just prescribing psych meds is not the answer. If u ever watch Lock down I think TDCJ could learn alot from CA system

psikocat
12-12-2008, 01:29 PM
My husband just put into Ad Seg for being in a gang over ten years ago. He has the tattoos and was rank. He never forcefully "recruited" anyone and when he decided he had enough, he got out with much punishment. He was 19 yo when he joined the gang and was in for 4 years, and was in for his first time in prison. I think that to put someone in Seg for such an extended period of time is cruel and unusual. I think that Seg should be regulated to those offenders who are actually harming themselves or others. To think that a gang member can't give orders while in Seg is naive and I believe makes hard core gang members stronger because they aren't out in the field facing the trouble they can cause. While I can't stand gangs, my husband was once part of one and I have talked to him extensively about it. I might not have made the same decisions he did but he truly regrets that phase in his life.

Michelep68
12-12-2008, 02:44 PM
Everyone is entitled to their opinions, but I know several guys who were/are in Ad Seg for STG and have gone thru the GRAD program or are waiting to go through it. My hubby is one of them and I'm glad that he doesn't have to spend the rest of his sentence in Ad Seg. Outlaw, do you really know what being in Ad Seg entails? They are locked in their cells 23 hours a day and get one hour a day for rec (if they call it). They can't make store, can't have contact visits, can't take classes, or attend religious teachings, and more. As a couple of people stated, you throw a young guy in prison (my hubby was 19) with hardened criminals, and they're going to do what they think they need to do to get by for a number of different reasons.

There is another post on here by Lil Instigator in regards to limiting the amount of time an inmate can stay in Ad Seg, whether it be for STG involvement or any other reason. If anyone is interested in helping out with this movement, check out her posts. She is wanting to get letters to Senators/Reps, etc. I know one guy who is finally in GRAD after being in Ad Seg for 10 years, another who's been in there for 8 years. Keeping someone in confinement like that for a long period of time is detrimental to not just the Offender, but to the Public, because a lot of these inmates will be back on the street. How are they supposed to know how to act after being locked in cages for that long. If these were animals being treated this way, PETA would be up in arms about it.

Yes, I am very heated about this subject!

TXLAXDAD
12-12-2008, 03:10 PM
As a CO, I will try to answer as good as possible. First to the poster that said TDCJ could learn a lot from the California DOC, California DOC has a bigger gang problem than Texas. In fact many of the STG gangs we currently have started in California.

Now to the original poster. There are three reasons an inmate joins a gang while incarcerated. First is protection. Most first timers are scared out of their witts when they first hit the state prison system. Gang members can sense that fear and use it as leverage to get them to join. Second reason is easy access to contraband. It is a well known fact that gangs are the ones that facilitate most traffic of contraband. If an inmate is in for DWI or drug charges, the easiest way to score a fix is to be associated ith those that control it. The third reason is a sense of belonging. Many inmates did not come from loving, supportive families. The gang immulates a family. The leaders are like fathers they may have not had, or had a relationship with. The other members are their brothers.

The 12 STG groups are bad news for sure. Most of them stretch nationwide. Many well orchestrated crimes in the freeworld were organized and ordered from the inside. Locking the confirmed membersin Ad Seg is the only way of protecting the general prison population, IMO. This puts the ball in their hands. They made the choice to join. Now the only way out of Seg is to get out of the gang. Yes, TDC does need more resources to help those that want to leave the gangs. It will take a lot of time, money, and training.

PTB(Puro Tango Blast) is not yet classified as a STG(Security Threat Group). My feeling as to why is that they seemed to be confined to Texas. But I feel that as some of it's members go to Federal Prison you will see them moving throught the country. Or It may be that each individual group within the PTB could get classified. Right now the Houstones, which is the PTB group out of Houston, seem to have more members than all the other groups combined. The Houstones could very well be classified by themselves or with the other member groups as one PTB group. The PTB is very ballsy right now. They know they are free to carry on with business a little easier that the STG's are. Yes, they are at war with TS. It is a matter of respect is what they are seeking from the othe STG's. They are very much growing in numbers, especially in the Southeast part of the state. The prisons in Hunstsville a litterally crawling with Houstones.

If you have any othe specific questions, feel free to ask. I am by no means an expert, but I will do my best to help you understand.

TXLAXDAD
12-12-2008, 03:23 PM
Everyone is entitled to their opinions, but I know several guys who were/are in Ad Seg for STG and have gone thru the GRAD program or are waiting to go through it. My hubby is one of them and I'm glad that he doesn't have to spend the rest of his sentence in Ad Seg. Outlaw, do you really know what being in Ad Seg entails? They are locked in their cells 23 hours a day and get one hour a day for rec (if they call it). They can't make store, can't have contact visits, can't take classes, or attend religious teachings, and more. As a couple of people stated, you throw a young guy in prison (my hubby was 19) with hardened criminals, and they're going to do what they think they need to do to get by for a number of different reasons.

There is another post on here by Lil Instigator in regards to limiting the amount of time an inmate can stay in Ad Seg, whether it be for STG involvement or any other reason. If anyone is interested in helping out with this movement, check out her posts. She is wanting to get letters to Senators/Reps, etc. I know one guy who is finally in GRAD after being in Ad Seg for 10 years, another who's been in there for 8 years. Keeping someone in confinement like that for a long period of time is detrimental to not just the Offender, but to the Public, because a lot of these inmates will be back on the street. How are they supposed to know how to act after being locked in cages for that long. If these were animals being treated this way, PETA would be up in arms about it.

Yes, I am very heated about this subject!

You know I respect the heck out of you, and I always love your posts. But a little incident happened a couple of weeks ago that made me think twice about letting the STG's out of Seg BEFORE they go through GRAD. An inmate was released to GP in another unit. On his 5th day at this new unit out in GP, he jumped and stabbed another inmate 5 times on the rec yard with a piece of fence that had broken off. Now this guy had completed the program and did this. Are we to trust that ones that haven't even gone through would be less of a threat in GP? How many inmates need to be assaulted before we decide it might not be a good idea? Those that are incarcerated in Seg for the duration of their sentance is a small percentage of the prison population. For one reason or another it was decided that the GP would be better off without these folks in the mix. How d you tell the families of the inmates that are not STG and in GP that their loved one is safe if you have all of these folks that did not play nice with others walking amongst them, recruiting more folks to join in their quest of domination? You would litterally be turning every unit into a war zone.

Michelep68
12-12-2008, 03:32 PM
Thanks, Dad! I do think that ALL STG members should be required to go thru some kind of program, whether it be GRAD or something else, to get out of Ad Seg. I just don't think someone should be in Ad Seg for so long, that's all. Also, can you tell me why there are no Black gang members in Ad Seg or GRAD? I have heard that a Rep made it possible that no Blacks should be classified as STG and be placed in Ad Seg. That is discrimination to me.

This is an issue that hits close to home with me, so I am very outspoken about it. I think there are a lot of other issues related to this very problem, but that's for another time. Of course, you have a totally different perspective than I do, being inside like you are. I respect your opinions and love your posts, too! :)

TXLAXDAD
12-12-2008, 03:40 PM
Thanks, Dad! I do think that ALL STG members should be required to go thru some kind of program, whether it be GRAD or something else, to get out of Ad Seg. I just don't think someone should be in Ad Seg for so long, that's all. Also, can you tell me why there are no Black gang members in Ad Seg or GRAD? I have heard that a Rep made it possible that no Blacks should be classified as STG and be placed in Ad Seg. That is discrimination to me.

This is an issue that hits close to home with me, so I am very outspoken about it. I think there are a lot of other issues related to this very problem, but that's for another time. Of course, you have a totally different perspective than I do, being inside like you are. I respect your opinions and love your posts, too! :)

This is false. I know of some that are. There are not as many in Seg. because the black STG gangs(Bloods and Crips) leadership is based in New York and California. These two gangs are not strong active recruiters inside. They have spilled over mostly to the freeworld side of the gang. They are not what you would call a "prison gang" anymore. Most of their wheeling and dealing is on the outside.

Michelep68
12-12-2008, 03:59 PM
I just see mainly whites and Mexicans in there, but hear that there are black gang members, so I was just wondering. But, that makes sense. I just wish the whole STG issue wasn't an issue. Why can't we all just get along? :D

mrs.esparza69
12-12-2008, 06:07 PM
everyone is entitled to thier opinions and when confirmed they do live in Ad-seg. That is not the answer and more detrimental to be locked up in seg. Just my 2 sense. I think if STG and a knuckle head yes seg but still should be reviewed for release back to gen-pop at a later time. The side effects of Seg is worse IMO and just prescribing psych meds is not the answer. If u ever watch Lock down I think TDCJ could learn alot from CA system

Very well said it is not the answer I have a few friends in seg and have been there for many years some have been in seg for 15 yrs one did 20 in seg and one has a life sentence and is in seg I don't agree with the whole gang thing but it doesn't make sence to keep them in seg for the remaining of their sentence. We are all intile to our opinions true it's easier to talk when you don't have a love one in ad seg and see what it has done to them or what they go to.

TXLAXDAD
12-12-2008, 06:24 PM
Very well said it is not the answer I have a few friends in seg and have been there for many years some have been in seg for 15 yrs one did 20 in seg and one has a life sentence and is in seg I don't agree with the whole gang thing but it doesn't make sence to keep them in seg for the remaining of their sentence. We are all intile to our opinions true it's easier to talk when you don't have a love one in ad seg and see what it has done to them or what they go to.


OK, then where do you put them?? General Pop endangers the lives of the staff and inmates. If you house them all together at a facility, it would be a gang war field.

outlaw.women
12-12-2008, 06:36 PM
Everyone is entitled to their opinions, but I know several guys who were/are in Ad Seg for STG and have gone thru the GRAD program or are waiting to go through it. My hubby is one of them and I'm glad that he doesn't have to spend the rest of his sentence in Ad Seg. Outlaw, do you really know what being in Ad Seg entails? They are locked in their cells 23 hours a day and get one hour a day for rec (if they call it). They can't make store, can't have contact visits, can't take classes, or attend religious teachings, and more. As a couple of people stated, you throw a young guy in prison (my hubby was 19) with hardened criminals, and they're going to do what they think they need to do to get by for a number of different reasons.

There is another post on here by Lil Instigator in regards to limiting the amount of time an inmate can stay in Ad Seg, whether it be for STG involvement or any other reason. If anyone is interested in helping out with this movement, check out her posts. She is wanting to get letters to Senators/Reps, etc. I know one guy who is finally in GRAD after being in Ad Seg for 10 years, another who's been in there for 8 years. Keeping someone in confinement like that for a long period of time is detrimental to not just the Offender, but to the Public, because a lot of these inmates will be back on the street. How are they supposed to know how to act after being locked in cages for that long. If these were animals being treated this way, PETA would be up in arms about it.

Yes, I am very heated about this subject!

Oh Yes, watched Ag-Seg inmates.
Do you realize, what these gang members do?
I watched these cells to long and I do know for a fact most whom are in Seg and Gang confirmed, have done enough for the people who are EDUCATED to analyze and see, maybe some..But they know Seg is the only answer they get when confirmed and they know to get out of an eight by 5 cell, they can sign up for this GRAD Program. They have to get back into GP, to run and stay in rank.

I think they knew where it would get them and they intimdate these young or new to the system and then look where they end up.

They ones who are hurting new comers & should feel it!!! Live their sentence out in SEG!! They mess up these other young guys or new to the system and it has to be stopped.

Would you want your husband or son and or brother, to get sentenced and never walked into a Prison System and yet they they have heard such stories and they want to go in and do their time and get it on over with but they are forced into this DRAMA or just a bunch of FAKE bullies? Heck no, you wouldn't. I only tell you what I have seen and most of all what I KNOW!!

mrs.esparza69
12-12-2008, 08:43 PM
Michelep68 Don't get worked up on peoples views and opinions that's all it it is views and opinions we all have the right to express how we feel about certain topics. I have 3 brothers in TDJC and they have served a good amount of time and they are not gang members they do have a choice to join or not to join.

Perry33103
12-12-2008, 08:53 PM
I spoke with a STG officer last week and was told that offenders who are confirmed PTB are now being reprimanded and that PTB is causing alot of problems right now. I don't know of any being put in Ad Seg yet, does anyone else?

smallngood
12-12-2008, 10:23 PM
Calif. has more gangs because of the population ratio- -but if one puts the population in perpective, it comes out the same- -that being said, part of what has been posted is true why inmates join gangs- -inside or out, for protection, to feel like you belong, and for just flat mental high, plus contraband.
The easiest way to get contraband is being in a gang, point blank.
You heard about the "mom" that brought her son dope- -well, he owed a gang, blood in and blood out.
Gangs rule inside, they have wars, big and small, they have leaders of rank, they have money, they have power, they have meetings, just like any business would have, they have territories.
Fact- -a true (not naming the name here) Mexican gang will NOT cause problems with a female officer,(if they do, they will warn the female officer first) where some Black gangs and also white don't care if it's male or female. It's open game for male officers though.
Each gangs have their "rules"- -"laws" to live by, they respect/honor these laws, and will die by them also.
My OWN opinion, gangs are a cop out to being true to yourself and for the inmature. One needs to remember, most gangs are not just for one guy, they include the whole family.
I have had many dealings with "ex" gang members, seems like they had matured more, they had more heart, and they took better care of their familes- -was a long road they had to take, but in the end, it made them a better person.
Gangs inside are a LOT more powerful than on the outside, anyone tells you different, they really don't know much about gangs. Some of the more powerful gang leaders rule fom inside.
Enough said, just my own thoughts from what I have delt with in life, and at work. No expert on this, just kind of "been there, done that" type of thing.
Be safe.

ReggiesLady
12-12-2008, 10:39 PM
Before I respond, I want to remind everyone to stay on track here and try to remember what the ORIGINAL post was asking. Let's not get sidetracked too much here. Now I'll share my feelings on some things.

Ok, I am probably stirring the pot here but I would really like to get a reasonable discussion about gangs in prisons started. I would especially like to hear from the CO's (you know who you are). I think I might be somewhat naive and I would like to be better informed. I am in no way condoning gangs, I find the whole idea repugnant (especially since most of the gangs seem to be racially divided) and I know that most gangs are heavily into drugs and other activities. However, I feel like there is something that lures people to join them. In the free world, when you talk to people who don't have much involvement with our criminal system, they seem to automatically assume that when you go to prison, it is inevitable that you be involved in a gang for whatever reason (usually for protection). How many of you believe this?
I believe protection is a big reason why people initially join prison gangs. You take a 19-20 year old kid and throw him into the mix of the prison life and they are bound to get scared whether they are able to show it or not.

I know that violence begats more violence but at what point to you point to the cause? I personally feel like if you house non-violent offenders with violent offenders is contributes to a situation where people feel unsafe. This one is a little broad for me because while someone may be in for a violent crime it doesn't necessarily mean they are always going to be violent. Not to mention, inmates don't usually know what the another is in for. And for sex offenders that's even more so the case because of the stimga that goes along with their crime.

Take my hubby. He never has had a charge where someone else was hurt. I don't deny that he broke the law and should be punished. But to take a 19 yo (at the time) boy and put him into a prison with people who have violent histories (and at this point I just want to say that I am not judging anyone, I have family members that are violent offenders and I know that they are not all bad people, I am just trying to prove a point) and that can lead to situations where people are attacked or worse before they learn how to survive in a prison setting. What recourse does someone have to protect themselves from potential harm?
Not much in my opinion purely because the system is so corrupt (inmates and officers) and inmates have a hard time knowing WHO exactly (officers) they can trust. Not to mention being labeled a "snitch" even if you are snitching on your own safety can get you seriously hurt. Most guys would rather just do things to catch case after case so they'll eventually be shipped off to another unit rather than tell an officer they fear for their life.

I know that is part of the guard's job, but they are not supermen who can be everywhere at once. I also don't believe that just because you broke the law, that means that is doesn't matter if you get raped or stabbed by a fellow inmate. Doesn't having someone at least in partial watching your back help? Are there any groups that inmates can join that is just based on friendship and mutual trust without the violence and drugs and such? Besides things like faith based dorms (which are few and far between) these types of groups are non-existant. You are talking about a world (prison) where the inmates are told "TRUST NO ONE" all the time. While friendships do happen they are very rare and hard to find. In my husband's 18 years in TDCJ I can count the number of what he considers TRUE friends on one hand.

I think that there is always going to be people that want to make trouble and harm others but how many gang members are there because they want to have a (false?) sense of security, accomplishment or just a sense that they are not alone in dealing with the daily life of prison? What can be done to make prisons an environment that discourages gang activity without putting every gang member in Ad Seg?I'm not sure there is much they can do. Prison gangs go way back in history and are just a part of prison life. Ad Seg should be a deterrant for all of them but as we know, lots end up there. I don't know what the answer is but I sure would like to hear what others have to say.

lormur
12-13-2008, 11:49 PM
Just because I am curious, do females have Gangs? Do Females go to AD Seg?

smallngood
12-14-2008, 12:53 AM
Yes, females have gangs and yes, they do seg time.
Actually, there are more "free world" female gangs than inside.
Female gangs are a tad more dangerious too- -they don't fight "fair"- -but, most in gangs don't usually fight fair to begin with, but- -if I personally was going to have to deal with a gang, I would prefer a man's gang then a female's. Not much, but a little bit more logical.
be safe.

TXLAXDAD
12-14-2008, 05:45 AM
Here are two links written recently on the Dallas Morning News blog:

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/latestnews/stories/113008dnmettango.3d2fd2c.html

http://crimeblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2008/12/authorities-break-up-abileneba.html

psikocat
12-14-2008, 05:57 PM
J. and I were talking today about gangs and especially PTB at visitation today. I noticed it first at Gist but especially at Ferguson I saw alot of "kids" that had star tattoos and such on their heads, necks, etc. When I say kids I mean under 25. J. says that PTB is EVERYWHERE and he wonders when they will be put on the STG list. I have another question, is it true that when you are tapped as a STG member in prison that is follows you out to the free world and you could even possibly be listed as a domestic terrorist on the FBI list? Is there no way to fight that? It really wants to make me cry. He has a hard enough time as it is but to be listed as a d.t. would make things so much harder, especially since he hasn't been in a gang for over 10 years. He didn't want to get his tattoos removed for free when he was out because he didn't want to be put on that list, I can't even imagine how much harder this is going to be... (We are paying for coverup one at a time)

Here are two links written recently on the Dallas Morning News blog:

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/latestnews/stories/113008dnmettango.3d2fd2c.html

http://crimeblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2008/12/authorities-break-up-abileneba.html

Lil.instig8tor
12-15-2008, 01:10 AM
my first experience with gang issues was at San Quentin..yes the gangs were running all kinds of contraband; essentially hand in hand with some guards..when a gang member of one gang owed a gang member of another gang they couldn't necessarily collect so to avoid riots and retaliation the finger would be pointed at a non member saying I can't pay you cause he owes me and that the non member would get hit...just an example of how messed up the whole thing is...there is more of a color bar inside prison then anywhere in the world. It is encouraged and perpetuated by DOC. You can be friends with everybody but if something goes down you best be standing with your own color. My Hubby had managed to be non member for years but was Segged for escape allegations. After 9 years in SEG he was tagged STG; he did NOT belong to a gang but just prior to getting tagged his escape allegation was removed. The African American gangs in Texas prison have written that they are considered Self-defense groups; so are NOT required to go to GRAD..I don't agree with ANY gang but I do know that indefinite solitary confinement is illegal and cruel and produces more problems than it solves; and isn't necessarily based on behavior; altho there are some offenders that deserve to be separated; don't play well with others; never getting out of prison etc. I still believe they ARE PEOPLE NOT ANIMALS.

lonestarrider
12-15-2008, 03:07 AM
In all seriousness...

what can you possibly expect when you throw hundreds of men into an overcrowded cage-like structure that not only restricts movement, but freedom of ideas, thoughts, expressions, that pushes every single individual to FOLLOW ORDERS OR ELSE, that chastises and degrades anyone who appears to be anything but stoic, strong, and unafraid of everything?

Simply put in context of pure social dynamics...gangs or other types of close-knit groups are BOUND to form, grow, and perpetuate in this environment. In all societies there exists a power structure - all cultures and civilizations throughout time have created one. In a prison, where power is absolute (and oftentimes corrupt) and is supposed to be entirely in the hands of the laws (a.k.a. the enemy), there will ALWAYS be people who will stand up and say, for what it's worth, I will run this sh*t, and I'm in charge - to whatever extent possible.

Think of it as a hard-line fascist state, which is essentially comparable to the prison complex in the US. The goal - not overtly nor publicly expressed as such, only in practice - is complete mental and physical domination, to break the human spirit into total submission, to force conformity to the structural norm in order to have control. In any place where this scenario exists, there will be dissenters, the subversives, who will retaliate against it, but not openly for fear of retribution. It will of course intend to operate beneath the surface and push to possess as much power as possible within the confines of their surroundings.

Ultimately, it comes down to the power struggle. In a world where you possess nothing, where the state dictates your moves, actions, words, thoughts - you will naturally want to control anything and everything you can, whether this is in the form of drugs or stamps or people - it's all types of capital and usable, expendable means to climb the power ladder. And when one "gang" or similar type of group forms through the union of some people who will swear by the code, others will undoubtedly bond together into their own cliques to confront the existing powers, protect themselves from the various means by which a dominant group may use to express/maintain their authority (often through intimidation and violence, because what else is there?), and then try to one up the others.

And so on. It is self-perpetuating, and there is NOTHING that TDCJ can do about it short of hindering all forms of communication between all offenders. Yeah, you might accomplish a few things by locking people in Ad Seg for ludicrously inhumane periods of time, but the gangs will always be there.

You can't push that many people down, convey to them that they are not humans and therefore undeserving of any rights, and institutionalize and attempt to brainwash them into forced compliance, without people joining together to say f*ck that, we will retain at least some form of power and privilege that we as human beings, especially in such a strongly capitalistic dog-eat-dog society, have an almost innate (or is it societally conditioned?) desire to possess. Prisons breed gangs.

I know quite a few who are cliqued up, are or have been through TDC, and some still have some semblance of membership after release, some don't. They aren't supposed to speak about their affiliations, hence the lack of general information. The articles that have recently appeared are not completely accurate.

TXLAXDAD
12-15-2008, 08:16 AM
A recently reported ststistic said that only about 10% of the current TDCJ population is affiliated with one of the 12 STGs. But I still beg for an answer to my question, what do we do with these individuals? Give me some solutions. Do we simply look the other way? Do we lock all members from the same gang in a dorm instead of Seg?? If so, who will watch them? And what about the Tangos? They are building an empire as we speak. Do we let it continue? What kind of deterant can we give all of them to stop doing what they are doing?

psikocat
12-15-2008, 10:45 AM
A recently reported ststistic said that only about 10% of the current TDCJ population is affiliated with one of the 12 STGs. But I still beg for an answer to my question, what do we do with these individuals? Give me some solutions. Do we simply look the other way? Do we lock all members from the same gang in a dorm instead of Seg?? If so, who will watch them? And what about the Tangos? They are building an empire as we speak. Do we let it continue? What kind of deterant can we give all of them to stop doing what they are doing?

I think that is an excellent question. There is no easy solution to the problem either. And before things change there needs to be a better idea right? I don't think that having whole units that are just used for a particular gang would be the best. What if someone wanted out? Then they are stuck in a unit with nothing but people who want to hurt him. Initially it might seem like a good idea but I feel that also, it would put up a definite us versus them in regards to the guards. Especially if there was a guard on the opposite race. I almost feel like starting an education/counseling drive. What if there was some kind of "safe" group? Not a gang but maybe some kind of fraternal order where the rules were, no drugs, no contraband, no initiated fights (although you could defend yourself) no sexual attacks, no racial fighting, etc, etc, etc. Just a basis of solidarity through hardship without the hate and a way to feel empowered without criminal activity. Or starting a program where ex-members talk about the problems with gangs to new inmates or "recruits"? Or maybe even a mentoring program with a buddy system? I read an article about a prison in CA where the prisoners were allowed to start their own classes and there were no gangs in that unit. If only 10% of TDC is gang affiliated which units are gang free? Allow I am leery of statistics because if you were an inmate, would you always admit to being a gang member? It seems that every unit J. is on I see alot of gang tattoos during visitation. Maybe if we could find out what works in other units we could apply it to our system. PTB. Thats a tough one. It seems like the intial lure was the loose affiliation and the sense of brotherhood without so much of the violence. The problem is really about putting the genie back into the bottle on gangs, which is unrealistic so we have to focus on limiting the people who are lured "to the dark side" not necessarily by deterrents but by education and alternatives. If there are next to no recruits (I know that there will also be that one guy who just doesn't want to follow the rules) then it will eventually be just a bunch of old guys with hate in their hearts that everyone looks down on. Nobody likes a fanatic but other fanatics. Also, I honestly believe that if it was easier to get out of a gang other than possibly four+ years in Seg, it might be an incentive for members to leave. I am going to think about other alternatives. I just want to thank everyone who has posted so far. :thumbsup:

Bchace74
12-15-2008, 11:21 AM
Some gangs GRAD is not a option... PERIOD. If you join the "Snitch program" as it is called it is a death sentence end of story u are marked. Just the way it is and a fact. At least when dealing w/ your bigger STG's. To get into GRAD you have to give up info which marks them as a snitch. I don't believe only 10% are in a gang maybe 10% confirmed. http://www.etext.org/Politics/MIM/agitation/prisons/campaigns/ca/prison.gang.politics.html

Interesting article on Politics of Prison Gangs in CDC... I don't think there will ever be a cure due to prison politics.

scchic
12-15-2008, 12:03 PM
What about housing all the members of the same gangs together on the same unit/floor whatever. They don't see anyone else from GP or any other unit. Can we have a few facilities in the state that houses just STG members? Each unit or floor can house a different group of STG. The only fighting that they would get into would be having to fight with each other. Also there is no more of the this gang owes me this and that gang owes me that so since the debt isn't being paid the two different gangs riot. They can have rec time, but only with the members of their "family," same at meal times. These facilities may seem like it may cost a little more, but it doesn't necessarily have to. Either way there are X number of inmates and therefore the state has to provide X number of beds, why not rearrange those beds around so that we may be able to keep the peace a little more? I am new to this whole prison thing and these suggestions may seem really niave, but if we isolated them without isolating them wouldn't that be more productive. Also the COs that work in these facilities should have better training in order to better protect themselves, be more aware, know the ins and outs of each of the STGs being housed at that facility etc.

Bchace74
12-15-2008, 12:32 PM
I think more in depth Training for CO's on STG's would be a great Idea. STG officers are the ones mainly holding gang conferences why can't they train CO's on in and outs of the STG's and cliques. I know when I worked in county jail my Ex who was street Capt and myself where the Gang intell. we would be the ones to keep our people up to date Me on the jail end him with his street patrolmen. We also separtated our inmates D tank was our hispanic gang members. E tank was just your everyday Joe's C tank our youngsters. We hardly had problems. We did lock down our resident knuckleheads.

Michelep68
12-15-2008, 12:34 PM
Scchic, I have been saying that prisons should be segregated because when you put all the races together, the Gang problems start. I am NOT racist, so I don't want the flack on that, I'm just saying maybe that's what they should do. You hardly ever hear of violence among the same race. ALL gangs are based on race and yes, maybe it's a legal issue, but it just makes sense, IMO.

I am not for putting hardcore, violent offenders in GP. There are some inmates who should be in Seg and not get out if they can't "play by the rules". But, not every inmate in Seg is violent and some of those that are tagged as STG were never members or never did anything wrong as a gang member. But the GRAD program must go on and they have to have inmates for the program, right? I just think that putting all confirmed STG members in Seg for years on end is not the solution. It is cruel and inhuman and is like caging an animal. How are these inmates going to act when they get out?

Lili, I do get worked up on this issue because I know of several men who are/were in Ad Seg and I see how it has affected them. Most of these have not committed a crime inside, but were confirmed STG. Unless they are committing violent acts, that alone should not get them put in STG. Also, a lot of guys are confirmed as STG and they are not. Some are recruits, but not actual gang members and some were never STG at all, but tagged anyway. The whole system is screwed and there is no oversight. They can place anyone they want in STG as a gang member and there is no recourse. So, my frustration is not at anyone for posting their opinions, but the issue itself. :)

outlaw.women
12-15-2008, 02:13 PM
If we all did not have opinions then like I stated we would not have Discussion Boards, I have heard a lot of ideas here on what we all think should be done with these offenders which are gang members. I do believe it is time for a change and race should no longer separate us.

But did you know another thing?
If I have tattoos that signify that I am member of a gang, and sentenced to TDCJ and I am in orientation and review, they take pictures of these tattoos and if TDCJ sees and [they know gang tattoos] they ship you right into TDCJ Ag-Seg not GP.

Michelep68
12-15-2008, 02:58 PM
I know they take pics of any tats that you have, but I don't know if they automatically ship you to Seg if you have "gang" tattoos. I do know that if you get new tattoos, it could be a case, but not sure about existing ones. Maybe one of the COs can confirm about existing tattoos.

As far as race, its ALWAYS going to be an issue in prison, doesn't matter how it is out here. The question is, how to deal with it. I wish everyone could all get along inside, but its a totally different world in there and they play by their own rules and own ideas. It just seems to me that throwing all races together is causing problems, so how can it be fixed? Would it really help if each race were imprisoned together? Just something to consider.

psikocat
12-15-2008, 10:33 PM
If we all did not have opinions then like I stated we would not have Discussion Boards, I have heard a lot of ideas here on what we all think should be done with these offenders which are gang members. I do believe it is time for a change and race should no longer separate us.

But did you know another thing?
If I have tattoos that signify that I am member of a gang, and sentenced to TDCJ and I am in orientation and review, they take pictures of these tattoos and if TDCJ sees and [they know gang tattoos] they ship you right into TDCJ Ag-Seg not GP.

My hubby has some of the tattoos and has had for 12+ years. When he was out on parole we had some of them covered but there are still a couple that are noticeable. TDC knows he has them and when he was revoked last year the cover-ups were noted but in the last year the only place where he was put in ADSEG was at Ferguson. Usually the other GIs read his file, saw the stuff that he went through back in '96-97 to get out and left it alone. Although now that the GI at Ferguson has him listed as a current member (for an old tattoo) he will automatically be kept in SEG until he completes the GRAD program. Even if he gets out on parole and goes back in, he will be put back into SEG automatically until he completes the program.

TXLAXDAD
12-16-2008, 06:24 AM
Keep in mind folks, we do not put every single gang member in Ad Seg. The 12 gangs that are targeted are the NATIONS 12 most prominent PRISON GANGS not street gangs. They are call Security Threat Groups because they pose a threat to the security of the facility. There is no simple solution.

RobinsMan
12-16-2008, 07:28 AM
... There is no simple solution.

Indeed.

tkn2dalimit
12-16-2008, 08:11 AM
I have read through this and can see everyone's points of view. But some of the things are bothersome to me. It seems that a lot of comments come down to race. Someone posted that you rarely see same race against one another. From what I have been reading on one of the major rifts right now is between 2 hispanic gangs. So segregation is not an answer. Think about it...EME and Tango primarly hispanic, Crips and Bloods primarily african america, Aryian and TM primarily caucasion...all with 2 commonalities. Both the same race and both deathly against the other. Don't get me wrong, push comes to shove and I am sure races would unite against each other.
Sure there are things being done, but it's just like in the streets either you stand up to them or you stand with them. It's a choice these people make. I am not saying there won't be casualities, but if someone really choses to change his life then he/she will stay away from that life style. I hate the excuse that people get into prison gangs for protection. For me it's a cop out. These people know what they are getting into. They know the blood in blood out mentatlity and what that entails. Everything in life is a choice my husband made a choice that got him in there, and for that he has to do his time. Now if he chooses to screw his life up even more, then it would be time for me to make a choice.

lonestarrider
12-16-2008, 02:12 PM
It's not a cop out if you're looking at the difference between your own life and death. You try being in that position. In many units - especially in Texas - people are forced to live and attempt to survive in an environment where your life is meaningless and your are told as such on a daily basis, so there is obvious appeal in joining others who offer some type of friendship or protection.

Sure, gangs will cause problems, but the people in them are not all horrible people. I can personally speak on behalf of many individuals that were/are affiliated in TDC and are among the most amazing, loyal, genuine, honest, loving people I have ever had the pleasure of meeting, and god forbid someone throws them into Ad Seg, because I don't fault them for doing what they do because they live in a purely cutthroat and captive society where values like trust and honesty are nothing but jokes. I would trust some of these "gang members" with my LIFE. Obviously, this isn't applicable to all people in gangs - just some people I know well. Maybe that's the exception, but I doubt every single one is wantonly violent or horrible degenerates.

I also don't think there is any "solution" to the gang situation, because like I said previously, it will always be there, barring a complete overhaul of the philosophy of TDCJ, their operations, and treatment - in theory as well as in practice - of the incarcerated. Which, considering the political climate and public opinion of this nation and our times - is pretty much just another joke. You can try to control little things and individual "problem" inmates (micromanage if you will), but if a group is hell-bent on getting drugs in or taking someone out, no amount of correctional staff or STG "gang intelligence" can stop it. Maybe once or twice, but not forever.

Sorry to be so pessimistic, but it's the truth as far as what I know and where I stand.

TXLAXDAD
12-16-2008, 02:20 PM
It's not a cop out if you're looking at the difference between your own life and death. You try being in that position. In many units - especially in Texas - people are forced to live and attempt to survive in an environment where your life is meaningless and your are told as such on a daily basis, so there is obvious appeal in joining others who offer some type of friendship or protection.

Sure, gangs will cause problems, but the people in them are not all horrible people. I can personally speak on behalf of many individuals that were/are affiliated in TDC and are among the most amazing, loyal, genuine, honest, loving people I have ever had the pleasure of meeting, and god forbid someone throws them into Ad Seg, because I don't fault them for doing what they do because they live in a purely cutthroat and captive society where values like trust and honesty are nothing but jokes. I would trust some of these "gang members" with my LIFE. Obviously, this isn't applicable to all people in gangs - just some people I know well. Maybe that's the exception, but I doubt every single one is wantonly violent or horrible degenerates.

I also don't think there is any "solution" to the gang situation, because like I said previously, it will always be there, barring a complete overhaul of the philosophy of TDCJ, their operations, and treatment - in theory as well as in practice - of the incarcerated. Which, considering the political climate and public opinion of this nation and our times - is pretty much just another joke. You can try to control little things and individual "problem" inmates (micromanage if you will), but if a group is hell-bent on getting drugs in or taking someone out, no amount of correctional staff or STG "gang intelligence" can stop it. Maybe once or twice, but not forever.

Sorry to be so pessimistic, but it's the truth as far as what I know and where I stand.

That is street gangs NOT prison gangs, which is what STGs are, PRISON GANGS. You do not get associated with them out on the street.

lonestarrider
12-16-2008, 02:24 PM
That is street gangs NOT prison gangs, which is what STGs are, PRISON GANGS. You do not get associated with them out on the street.

I have no clue what you are referring to. There's plenty of people who get cliqued up while inside and carry their affiliations out with them, some who participate actively after release and some just abandon those links, and both are, as far as I've seen, pretty common with tango. Those are the ones I am speaking of.

lonestarrider
12-16-2008, 02:38 PM
I think since I'm speaking with a CO we are obviously looking at this from completely opposite ends of the gang issue. We probably see/hear of a lot of the same things going on but from very different perspectives. While I respect your opinion, I have also been privy to some things that non-affiliated individuals really "shouldn't know" about some of these STGs - not claiming I possess a complete down and dirty understanding of the inner workings but a decent amount of it, which I can't discuss anyway. I truly doubt you are aware of many of these things, but then again you probably know much more about the logistics and operations inside TDCJ to handle groups like this than I do. We just got knowledge of different ends of the spectrum, but I definitely do not have it twisted as far as what I know and think.

TXLAXDAD
12-16-2008, 02:56 PM
EXACTLY, you have no clue. PTB is NOT an STG. Therefore a member WILL NOT be placed in Ad Seg just because they are PTB. Not yet at least. The Tangos you speak so highly of are the most violent group within TDC right now. They are making their move. I have no respect for a group of thugs that think it is okay to lash out violently within society, or think it is OK to sell drugs, or that women are a subspecies. You come on here to glorify these punks?? I am glad we see things from different angles. I will NEVER see them from yours. What info could you possibly be privy to that is not plastered all over the internet?? PTB is not shy about touting themselves or what they believe. As long as they are not STG they will be that way.

lonestarrider
12-16-2008, 05:25 PM
EXACTLY, you have no clue. PTB is NOT an STG. Therefore a member WILL NOT be placed in Ad Seg just because they are PTB. Not yet at least. The Tangos you speak so highly of are the most violent group within TDC right now. They are making their move. I have no respect for a group of thugs that think it is okay to lash out violently within society, or think it is OK to sell drugs, or that women are a subspecies. You come on here to glorify these punks?? I am glad we see things from different angles. I will NEVER see them from yours. What info could you possibly be privy to that is not plastered all over the internet?? PTB is not shy about touting themselves or what they believe. As long as they are not STG they will be that way.


Yeah, I know they're not considered an STG. I'm not "speaking highly" of them or "glorifying" them as a whole. It just seems that everyone here - including you - seems to think that every single last one of the individuals involved in gangs are malevolent, vicious monsters with absolutely no goal or purpose in life except to victimize and hurt others. That's not the reality. Nobody is glorifying anything or any of those activities, and there's nothing I have said that has inferred this at all, so don't put words into my mouth.

And you must be stupid to think all the "info" is plastered on the internet. Of course there's some people that will talk a lot and publicly broadcast their business, and I don't particularly care for those people and their b.s. either, but that seems to be all the info out there and those articles you posted? You're sadly mistaken if you think all of the "investigative journalism" is fact; they probably get a lot of that information from people who work in the system, and all y'all can really hope to do is keep trying to get all the info - if you knew everything, your jobs would be a whole lot easier, wouldn't it?

But you seem to already believe you got all the answers, and that's fine with me - so keep thinking that you know everything and keep believing that all gang members are categorically evil and whatever else you happen to think is the one and only truth, and let me have my own opinion based on what I see and know - not to mention in no way have I ever condoned any of their illegal activities, just stating that it would be a huge undertaking to even start to dismantle groups like this (partly because of how little you know), whether they're classified as an STG or not. Finally, I would be incredibly grateful if you would refrain from speaking down on me like I'm a f*cking idiot. Thank you.

tkn2dalimit
12-17-2008, 07:17 AM
It's not a cop out if you're looking at the difference between your own life and death. You try being in that position. In many units - especially in Texas - people are forced to live and attempt to survive in an environment where your life is meaningless and your are told as such on a daily basis, so there is obvious appeal in joining others who offer some type of friendship or protection. By your words is exactly why I think that is a cop out. See people live and survive in these environments everyday without a gang affiliation. There are kids on the streets today that live everyday not knowing if it will be their last, but still don't falter. There are adults who are at their last limits with nothing to move forward for that don't falter. There are some who choose not to condone this way of life and stand tall. Again, I did say there may be some casualties, but the choice is still there. It just depends on how you want to live your life.

Sure, gangs will cause problems, but the people in them are not all horrible people. I would trust some of these "gang members" with my LIFE. Obviously, this isn't applicable to all people in gangs - just some people I know well. Maybe that's the exception, but I doubt every single one is wantonly violent or horrible degenerates. I definitely don't think they are all horrible. What I do think is that every one that affiliates themselves with these gangs is knowingly condoning and supporting killings, drug trafficking, theft, and so many other illegal activities. They glorify each other knowing what they do. All I am saying is there is another way of life. It's not going to be easy, but one does not have to enter 'thug life' to survive...not even in prison!

I also don't think there is any "solution" to the gang situation, because like I said previously, it will always be there, barring a complete overhaul of the philosophy of TDCJ, their operations, and treatment - in theory as well as in practice - of the incarcerated. I agree with this wholeheartedly. They may slow it down on the surface, but realistically they will always be there.
Sorry to be so pessimistic, but it's the truth as far as what I know and where I stand.
I personally know street life, and live in an area that people categorize as 'hood', so I do know what you are talking about. Sure they are not all out there doing these things, but to claim any other gang for that matter is just as bad. (for me anyways) Because as part of that gang you know what goes on, and choose to 'represent'. What is it that they represent...Unity -amongst each other? or others? Protection...for each other? for the neighborhood?

x4livin
12-17-2008, 07:25 AM
I think that many of the street gangs are wanna be's because they believe that prison gang members are the standard to shoot for. Many of our guys find themselves in a situation that coaxes(forces) them to choose a side or be hurt for not. This 'gang' relationship, once released, will likely desolve with the return of family and the safety of their own environment(home court advantage) I wonder how many street 'gang' members are guys who have never been incarcerated in the CJ system, other than maybe local time, and they are trying to act tough to gain stature. Once inside, they learn they are not what they thought they were, and I'm betting...just on a hunch...they have less interest afterwards in being part of the trouble than before...that IS the goal, afterall, isn't it. g

Bchace74
12-17-2008, 12:03 PM
Prison gangs do not necessarily end when they get out unfortunetly. They still recruit, drugs - supposed to be sent to inmates inside for assistance- yeah right, hits carried out ect.... It is a very scary lifestyle. Go to youtube and can see the documentry done by gangland on Texas Syndicat called Texas Terror I think. They have one on Mexican Mafia too. Nuestra Familia (http://ganglandguide.blogspot.com/2008/09/nuestra-familia.html) , MS-13 who are very scary!!
Must say when I ran into EME or TS always treated with respect. Granted sure they would stick u just as quick. Not glamorizing this but have always found gangs interesting and amazes me the intricate, and family connection. Why they do what they do but still have respect, but can take a life and not think twice, why what makes them tick, why did they go this route?? things that make u go hmmmm...

TXLAXDAD
12-18-2008, 02:15 PM
Fact is that PTB claim to be a non-violent alternative, but yet in TDCJ this past year they have been the #1 group involved in violent acts. You see in the news about instenses as well as the drug busts. These guys are no this "flower power' group they try to claim they are. They will be the next STG and for good reason.

psikocat
12-18-2008, 07:38 PM
My hubby has also said he has noticed how violent this gang seems to be getting.

outlaw.women
12-24-2008, 05:38 AM
My hubby has some of the tattoos and has had for 12+ years. When he was out on parole we had some of them covered but there are still a couple that are noticeable. TDC knows he has them and when he was revoked last year the cover-ups were noted but in the last year the only place where he was put in ADSEG was at Ferguson. Usually the other GIs read his file, saw the stuff that he went through back in '96-97 to get out and left it alone. Although now that the GI at Ferguson has him listed as a current member (for an old tattoo) he will automatically be kept in SEG until he completes the GRAD program. Even if he gets out on parole and goes back in, he will be put back into SEG automatically until he completes the program.


What I don't agree with is, yes say you get out of TDCJ and you try to better your self and if you get caught up again in the system and say I commit the same crime as another guy, sentenced to the same time and we enter into TDCJ and want to go and do just my time and get on home, knowing to better myself I will not get back into this life as a gang member. Once in OR, both of us are fully checked in, the other guy that has the same time as myself goes into GP, I go straight to Ad-Seg because of a Tattoo.

I could see if I was put out in GP and violated any laws, then I understand the alternative is Seg, but to punish me for TATTOO'S is off the chain. What gives TDCJ that right?

mrsmorelock827
12-24-2008, 07:25 AM
First off want to let you guys know that I appreciate the information you have provided. I have read through all of these posts and it fasicnates me because well I'm pretty much just curious about the whole system in general. If my husband has to spend time in there I want to know what it's like... maybe not first hand lol, but definitely do. This thread has helped me understand things and well I guess I wanted to know what exactly what the 12 leading gangs are. Is it just tattoos that make them identifiable (spelling probably not right)? I am very curious about all of this. Thank you again!!!

apostle
12-24-2008, 08:17 AM
Primarily Black- Crips, Bloods
Primarily Hispanic- Hermanos Pistolero Latino (HPL), Para Revolutionary Mexicles (PRM), Texas Syndicate, Mexican Mafia, Barrio Azteca, Tx. Chicano Brotherhood, Raza Unida.
Primarily White- Aryan Brotherhood (includes ABT), Aryan Circle, Texas Mafia

TXLAXDAD
12-24-2008, 09:05 AM
What I don't agree with is, yes say you get out of TDCJ and you try to better your self and if you get caught up again in the system and say I commit the same crime as another guy, sentenced to the same time and we enter into TDCJ and want to go and do just my time and get on home, knowing to better myself I will not get back into this life as a gang member. Once in OR, both of us are fully checked in, the other guy that has the same time as myself goes into GP, I go straight to Ad-Seg because of a Tattoo.

I could see if I was put out in GP and violated any laws, then I understand the alternative is Seg, but to punish me for TATTOO'S is off the chain. What gives TDCJ that right?

Because risking the safety and security of any unit is not worth it. These 12 groups have proven over time that they are too much of a risk. This is not just in TDCJ, but nationwide.

deedee2
12-24-2008, 09:26 AM
I am not sure where I read this but I heard that a prison is being built in Colorado and if an inmate is recognizes as a gang member they go directly to that prison.. I heard its going to be a very ugly place.

TXLAXDAD
12-24-2008, 09:38 AM
That doesn't suprise me. I wonder how much the "hazardous duty pay" will be for the officers. Surely not near enough. Would it suprise you that there are states that have only one state prison?

deedee2
12-24-2008, 06:24 PM
TXLAXDAD... I do believe that trouble should be separated from the good so that issues can be dealt with and inmates can move forward without diversion. So I do think a separate prison for the gangs is a good idea. State or Fed.. Hell who give a shit. Just hurry home family member. Christmas is waiting.

TXLAXDAD
12-24-2008, 08:23 PM
Are you saying one for each gang?/ Or put them all together?? I think the later would keep you from seeing your loved one again.

deedee2
12-24-2008, 09:17 PM
Are you saying one for each gang?/ Or put them all together?? I think the later would keep you from seeing your loved one again.

Again.. I read that they are talking about building a prison and all inmates that are gang related will be sent to that prison. No my friend is not taged.. He has been in for 26 years and our children want him home. His daughter is getting married and wants him to walk her. Txlaxdad you have a wonderful holiday and a Merry New Year.

TXLAXDAD
12-25-2008, 08:12 AM
OHHHH I now understand. That way they would leave your husband alone. Well that is good for those not affiliated. I just do not think it is still a good idea. I would hate to be a CO in that place.

strawberry6977
12-25-2008, 01:45 PM
My husband is at Bradshaw and when I visited him last weekend, he said that the gang activity there is high, and regardless of gang activity or not, there are also lots of fights. Either way, he says the guards just sit there and do nothing. I can understand that unfortunately gangs will be in prisons, but the guards should at least do something about it. Or if the guards just want a "free for all" then it should just be prisons with violent offenders that are used to that type of atmosphere and feel right at home. My husband is a non-violent offender and is not used to it, and I as a loved one (and it's the "mother" in me) fear for his safety. He's just there to do his time and mind his own business, not come out in a body-bag or catch a case because he's trying to defend himself.

That's my 2cents. ;)

ReggiesLady
12-25-2008, 05:04 PM
I know they take pics of any tats that you have, but I don't know if they automatically ship you to Seg if you have "gang" tattoos. I do know that if you get new tattoos, it could be a case, but not sure about existing ones. Maybe one of the COs can confirm about existing tattoos.

As far as race, its ALWAYS going to be an issue in prison, doesn't matter how it is out here. The question is, how to deal with it. I wish everyone could all get along inside, but its a totally different world in there and they play by their own rules and own ideas. It just seems to me that throwing all races together is causing problems, so how can it be fixed? Would it really help if each race were imprisoned together? Just something to consider.


Maybe I'm missing something but it just seems to me like this idea would BREED even more racism than there already is.

karen
12-25-2008, 08:07 PM
Originally Posted by Michelep68 http://www.prisontalk.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.prisontalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4255474#post4255474)
I know they take pics of any tats that you have, but I don't know if they automatically ship you to Seg if you have "gang" tattoos. I do know that if you get new tattoos, it could be a case, but not sure about existing ones. Maybe one of the COs can confirm about existing tattoos.

As far as race, its ALWAYS going to be an issue in prison, doesn't matter how it is out here. The question is, how to deal with it. I wish everyone could all get along inside, but its a totally different world in there and they play by their own rules and own ideas. It just seems to me that throwing all races together is causing problems, so how can it be fixed? Would it really help if each race were imprisoned together? Just something to consider.

Maybe I'm missing something but it just seems to me like this idea would BREED even more racism than there already is.

I think Michelep68 is just acknowledging the elephant in the room. As much as we wish it wasn't; race is very much an issue in TDCJ. I'm not sure segregating by race will breed more racism but I think it would make for horrible problems regarding jealousy and one race claiming that they are getting unfair treatment, no matter how careful TDCJ could be trying to insure fairness. And then by separating inmates by race would really make it easy for the gangs to recruit, grow and strengthen. :twocents:

rvlm
12-26-2008, 01:39 AM
You are right separating the races would open up one messy can of worms since some offenders still claim unfair treatment due to race. On my unit I see the various races getting along with each other every day. I am not saying there is not any racists in prison because there are but most of the offenders seem to want to just get along and due their time without any turmoil.

ReggiesLady
12-26-2008, 11:49 AM
Karen, I understand what you are trying to say but my thinking is that you get a bunch of White Supremists etc on one unit where they are not exposed to other races and constantly told "They are bad!" without being able to experience themselves, then you have a bigger problem on your hands. We have to remember that these people will one day be released back into society.

TXLAXDAD
12-26-2008, 02:09 PM
I was watching an episode of "Lockdown" some months ago, and they were saying that the cells they had were segregated, until this year. Could I be hearing correctly? The staff was quite upset of them doing away with this, stating it would cause a lot of violence. I think this discussion has come around to being about inmates that are members of one of the STGs who is in Ad Seg. Whould it be a bad idea to put all of say AB in one prison, and all of Eme in another? I am not sure, and I guess we would never know until it is tried. I do see pros and cons to both sides.

psikocat
12-26-2008, 03:23 PM
But then what about the guards? You can't discriminate in your hiring practices and then who wants to the the black guard on the AB unit or the white guard on the Crip unit. What about people who are mixed race or a small percentage of inmates like Native Americans or Asians? What happens when they come back out into society, its not segregated out here. I think regressing along racial lines would be a bad thing. I personally think that creating a prison environment that is somewhat more "secure" for the average inmate would go a long way towards nipping gang membership in the bud. I think that given a viable alternative to gangs most people would choose not to become involved. I know that J. got into it when he was a kid because basically he was scared of what could happen (not that he will admit that of course) and did not have any kind of reassurance that he was safe from attack. No friends or anyone to count on. Whether we want to admit it or not, prison is a very scary place and granted you broke the law and should take your punishment but breaking the law should not condone some of the horrible things that can happen in prison. When even defending yourself if you get jumped is held against you.

TXLAXDAD
12-26-2008, 05:12 PM
I completely understand and agree with what you are saying. How do you think we could set up alternatives? What more can the guards do that would keep the violence down? Many of the people that fall victim to become members of prison gangs are preconditioned. Not all, but many. It is awfully hard to combat the mentality when it already exists before they enter.

ReggiesLady
12-26-2008, 10:38 PM
TX- I can't remember what documentary I saw it on but I remember an ex-STG officer saying they would walk around and get to know the inmates and that it helped them to know what was going on etc. I don't know about other units but I've never heard Reg talk about any of the GIs walking around and conversing with inmates. I could be wrong but I just wonder if actually getting to know these guys and talking to them as humans would help the situation. It might change the "inmate against 'the man'" mentality that goes on in prisons. Just a thought. Of course, now that I'm typing this I can see that this way might get an officer labeled as a "Thug hugger" or the like.

mrsmorelock827
12-27-2008, 08:46 AM
My husband is at Bartlett and he regulary talks to the GI well according to him he does. He said that she ususally talks to people and can be real nice, but is a total hardass. I don't know if she goes to talk with them as in get to know them or if she more does that to find out what is going on. Maybe a little of both. Just found it interesting.

Clove145
12-27-2008, 12:58 PM
I don't know much about the situation with the gangs. My guy never talks about it. He just says most are in there to do their time and come home. Most have a mutual respect for one another and don't get bothered.

One point that no one has brought up is the fact that there is a shortage of CO's presently at TDCJ. The last figure I saw was 67%. I've also read that the prisons have moved inmates around to accomodate the shortages at some facilities. Some are in Max. Sec. that really shouldn't be. Perhaps, TXLAXDAD could comment on this.

TXLAXDAD
12-27-2008, 01:59 PM
I don't know much about the situation with the gangs. My guy never talks about it. He just says most are in there to do their time and come home. Most have a mutual respect for one another and don't get bothered.

One point that no one has brought up is the fact that there is a shortage of CO's presently at TDCJ. The last figure I saw was 67%. I've also read that the prisons have moved inmates around to accomodate the shortages at some facilities. Some are in Max. Sec. that really shouldn't be. Perhaps, TXLAXDAD could comment on this.

Actually I see the opposite. I see more G4 inmates waiting for a bed at a Medium to Max facility. They are usually housed with G2 and G3 offenders. The problems that arise with that is taht you have a violent offender being housed in a facility not designed for his custody level, and he could be a bad influence on the lower security level inmates. It is also hard on a G4 inmate in that the unit he is used to do not nag about the small things like grooming and how neat he keeps his housing area. In the low security facility he is waiting at they do nag about those things, and for some of these guys the nagging is just too much to handle.

lonestarrider
12-27-2008, 11:45 PM
Hmm...I was kind of musing about the race issue.

I know that Tango (I'm also wondering who the HELL actually claimed they were a "flower power" group???!!?? I'm baffled at the thought of where that little snippet of info came about.) jumps Mexicans in two-on-one for up to a minute. But I've also known white boys who were initiated into Tango Blast with TWO minute checks, and as far as I know that was the only difference between initiation of whites & Mexicans (at least in one particular unit) since of course they need to meet the same standards to join...

So...I've just been pondering...is TB really crossing that racial barrier? Or is this just an anomaly? And is there a difference in how Whites & Mexicans blasting in the pen are treated by their own group, since prison gangs have just historically been so racially divided? I mean, if this is the case, then how does that tenuous relationship pan out in reality inside the walls?

Just some thoughts that have been on my mind...

psikocat
01-05-2009, 11:13 AM
I completely understand and agree with what you are saying. How do you think we could set up alternatives? What more can the guards do that would keep the violence down? Many of the people that fall victim to become members of prison gangs are preconditioned. Not all, but many. It is awfully hard to combat the mentality when it already exists before they enter.


I think that definitely there needs to be more guards and really, better pay and hiring practices to start off with. If we had more guards like you who were diligent and liked their jobs it would make a difference. I know! Let's clone you!!! :D Also, making sure that inmates who have a firm history of violence should be in smaller, more easily controlled units, not necessarily seg but a space that is with other inmates but closely watched. Maybe, get the GRAD program process more streamlined and at all of the prisons, not just two. Making it easier for former gang members to go about their sentence without all this hoopla would be great. Have TDCJ encourage inmate relationships (and I mean friendships ;)) in a positive and cross-racial way so that nobody feels alone or helpless. Then they will have a positive support structure that doesn't involve gangs. And finally, (this is a huge one and so totally a wish) is that there would be enough money to start programs for kids BEFORE they get to pre-conditioned to illegal activities and negative behavior. I mean, while Texas has one of the cheapest run prison system, it also had a 41% above average incarceration rate compared nationally.

lh1436
01-05-2009, 09:56 PM
as i was reading through this post, something i thought was interesting... there seems to be a lot of people who have loved one's in prison that are not in gangs and those people judge inmates who are in gangs the same way most of the people out here judge all inmates in prison... does that make sense?

generally, people out here think anyone in prison is a bad/violent/worthless/etc person and who cares what happens to them, they deserve what they get. it seems like there are several people being just as judgmental about inmates who are in gangs as opposed to inmates who are not in gangs. i know that i have learned to be a lot less judgmental in all areas of my life just because of what i've had to deal with since my husband has been in prison.

hmm...

psikocat
01-06-2009, 01:18 AM
So I am trying to find out information and Texas Gang intervention and there doesn't seem to be alot. J. will be home before they even finish the investigation for GRAD, which means that he will be on all kinds of "naughty" lists. The whole situation makes me want to cry, I can't even imagine how much harder this is going to make things with him being labeled a "domestic terrorist". What are we going to do? Our son wants to go into the military when he graduates high school, how is he going to get a decent security clearance? There goes moving overseas, much less visiting family overseas when we retire. All because he never formally renounced a gang that he left in a program that wasn't even available over ten years ago. I have been looking for a real world GRAD program that maybe he could go through to at least get him labeled as an ex member but I can't seem to find anything. Does anybody know of a similar program? I really don't want to get pulled over for speeding and have the officers draw their guns. I totally hate that for the rest of his life, the authorities will not only view J. as an ex-felon which is bad enough, but also as a gang member and domestic terrorist.

grmnclt_gurl
01-06-2009, 01:37 AM
as i was reading through this post, something i thought was interesting... there seems to be a lot of people who have loved one's in prison that are not in gangs and those people judge inmates who are in gangs the same way most of the people out here judge all inmates in prison... does that make sense?

generally, people out here think anyone in prison is a bad/violent/worthless/etc person and who cares what happens to them, they deserve what they get. it seems like there are several people being just as judgmental about inmates who are in gangs as opposed to inmates who are not in gangs. i know that i have learned to be a lot less judgmental in all areas of my life just because of what i've had to deal with since my husband has been in prison.

hmm...

Here Here lh1436 :thumbsup: I was just thinking the same thing.
I fully understand the reasoning behind initially putting confirmed gang members in Seg and don't have a problem with that. My issue comes afterwards. That being the amount of time they are kept in Seg. Especially after an inmate goes to the GI and formally "disassociates" themselves from what ever gang, they are still kept in Seg for 2 or more yrs as a "probationary/observation" period where every action of theirs is scrutinized to make sure that they are in fact genuine in their intent. After this 2yrs or so they are then put on a waiting list, which from what I understand can be many yrs long. So even the people that are genuine and have "done the right thing" by severing their connection with that gang and have cooperated with the GI at their unit, are still be "punnished" by all the same restrictions that those who choose not to disassociate. I think that there should be something "in-between" for the people who are in the probationary period & on the extremely lengthy waiting list. Like restoring some privilege to those that have made that step towards bettering themselves. Such as giving them back their eligibility for Contact visits and the opportunity of some sort of education. I just feel that continuing to treat them the same as those who are making no effort to better themselves is not beneficial to the one's who are making efforts to change and better themselves.
Just my :twocents:

psikocat
01-07-2009, 10:11 AM
I just feel that continuing to treat them the same as those who are making no effort to better themselves is not beneficial to the one's who are making efforts to change and better themselves.


I totally agree. I mean, if to get out you have to spend at least 4 years in SEG, what's the incentive? It almost seems like another punishment, especially if you haven't been confirmed and aren't in SEG to begin with.

Michelep68
01-08-2009, 12:46 PM
You have to wait at least 2 years for the "Investigation" and then however long it takes to get you a spot in GRAD. I know someone who is finally in GRAD after 10 years! There is no rhyme or reason on how they place people in GRAD and the wait time is ridiculous. If they only way out is the GRAD program, then they need to have it on more units. I'm all for educating the inmates and getting them out of the gangs, but locking them in Ad Seg for years on end is not the solution.

mrs.esparza69
01-09-2009, 05:30 PM
as i was reading through this post, something i thought was interesting... there seems to be a lot of people who have loved one's in prison that are not in gangs and those people judge inmates who are in gangs the same way most of the people out here judge all inmates in prison... does that make sense?

generally, people out here think anyone in prison is a bad/violent/worthless/etc person and who cares what happens to them, they deserve what they get. it seems like there are several people being just as judgmental about inmates who are in gangs as opposed to inmates who are not in gangs. i know that i have learned to be a lot less judgmental in all areas of my life just because of what i've had to deal with since my husband has been in prison.

hmm...

Very well said :thumbsup:

TXLAXDAD
01-09-2009, 09:14 PM
as i was reading through this post, something i thought was interesting... there seems to be a lot of people who have loved one's in prison that are not in gangs and those people judge inmates who are in gangs the same way most of the people out here judge all inmates in prison... does that make sense?

generally, people out here think anyone in prison is a bad/violent/worthless/etc person and who cares what happens to them, they deserve what they get. it seems like there are several people being just as judgmental about inmates who are in gangs as opposed to inmates who are not in gangs. i know that i have learned to be a lot less judgmental in all areas of my life just because of what i've had to deal with since my husband has been in prison.

hmm...

I am speaking ONLY from my experience. I have never met a gang member that I would consider a "good guy." The only ones I have come in contact with are ones that are out to take advantage of anything resembling weakness, and growing their numbers. I am not sayint they don't exist, I just have never seen one.

TXLAXDAD
01-09-2009, 09:16 PM
I totally agree. I mean, if to get out you have to spend at least 4 years in SEG, what's the incentive? It almost seems like another punishment, especially if you haven't been confirmed and aren't in SEG to begin with.

One of the reasons that the wait is so long is to weed out those that are just using the program to get out of Seg. and have no desire to actually leave the gang. Because believe it or not there are some that are doing just that.

mrsmorelock827
01-09-2009, 09:45 PM
Okay so I have read through the posts again and I have a question. If they say they are no longer a gang member is there a possibility that when they go back into GP that they could be hurt again? Or is that just in the movies? Because if that is true and they get out of Seg and go back into GP wouldn't there be some sort of "hit" on them? How is/can that be handled?

So one question turned into a few.

I am still very curious about all of this.

KarenTx
01-09-2009, 09:53 PM
As a CO, I will try to answer as good as possible. First to the poster that said TDCJ could learn a lot from the California DOC, California DOC has a bigger gang problem than Texas. In fact many of the STG gangs we currently have started in California.

Now to the original poster. There are three reasons an inmate joins a gang while incarcerated. First is protection. Most first timers are scared out of their witts when they first hit the state prison system. Gang members can sense that fear and use it as leverage to get them to join. Second reason is easy access to contraband. It is a well known fact that gangs are the ones that facilitate most traffic of contraband. If an inmate is in for DWI or drug charges, the easiest way to score a fix is to be associated ith those that control it. The third reason is a sense of belonging. Many inmates did not come from loving, supportive families. The gang immulates a family. The leaders are like fathers they may have not had, or had a relationship with. The other members are their brothers.

The 12 STG groups are bad news for sure. Most of them stretch nationwide. Many well orchestrated crimes in the freeworld were organized and ordered from the inside. Locking the confirmed membersin Ad Seg is the only way of protecting the general prison population, IMO. This puts the ball in their hands. They made the choice to join. Now the only way out of Seg is to get out of the gang. Yes, TDC does need more resources to help those that want to leave the gangs. It will take a lot of time, money, and training.

PTB(Puro Tango Blast) is not yet classified as a STG(Security Threat Group). My feeling as to why is that they seemed to be confined to Texas. But I feel that as some of it's members go to Federal Prison you will see them moving throught the country. Or It may be that each individual group within the PTB could get classified. Right now the Houstones, which is the PTB group out of Houston, seem to have more members than all the other groups combined. The Houstones could very well be classified by themselves or with the other member groups as one PTB group. The PTB is very ballsy right now. They know they are free to carry on with business a little easier that the STG's are. Yes, they are at war with TS. It is a matter of respect is what they are seeking from the othe STG's. They are very much growing in numbers, especially in the Southeast part of the state. The prisons in Hunstsville a litterally crawling with Houstones.

If you have any othe specific questions, feel free to ask. I am by no means an expert, but I will do my best to help you understand.



OK wasn't PTB originally where inmates made a gang to keep from being forced into a gang? It seems to me now instead of a bunch of little gangs since this Tango mess you have 2 huge gigantic gangs the Tangos and the non Tangos (being all the STG's having to form alliances with each other to stand up to the Tangos) What a mess :shrug:

TXLAXDAD
01-10-2009, 09:36 AM
Okay so I have read through the posts again and I have a question. If they say they are no longer a gang member is there a possibility that when they go back into GP that they could be hurt again? Or is that just in the movies? Because if that is true and they get out of Seg and go back into GP wouldn't there be some sort of "hit" on them? How is/can that be handled?

So one question turned into a few.

I am still very curious about all of this.

Absolutely they will ALWAYS be in danger. They made a life altering decision when they decided to join. They old saying, "Blood in, Blood out" is not just Hollywood. I have seen some that have completed the program and get jumped at te unit they wind up at in GP. There is no easy way to handle this very bad situation. This is the world I deal with daily, and am so glad most of you do not have too.

TXLAXDAD
01-10-2009, 09:39 AM
OK wasn't PTB originally where inmates made a gang to keep from being forced into a gang? It seems to me now instead of a bunch of little gangs since this Tango mess you have 2 huge gigantic gangs the Tangos and the non Tangos (being all the STG's having to form alliances with each other to stand up to the Tangos) What a mess :shrug:

I believe that was the line that got everyone involved in the beginning, but PTB has become a MONSTER. They are really creating a lot of problems within TDC. I really see the only way to help control it would be to classify PTB as an STG. I really do not feel it will be much longer. Then again once they are, it starts a whole new set of problems.

mrsmorelock827
01-10-2009, 10:01 AM
Thank you DAD for the info... and i'm glad that I don't have to deal with that, I don't know how you do it.

rvlm
01-10-2009, 05:52 PM
The latest rumor going around is that the Tango Blasts are about to be certified as a STG.

Bchace74
01-10-2009, 07:33 PM
Funny I have met Many good guys involved in gangs and many BAD eggs too. Maybe, different for I am a female. Dunno... Was one guy my x went to school w/ that was a Cpt for Ayran Brotherhood he wanted out for he was older and reliezed his stupidity, they tried hitting him by overdosing him. He was a great guy. As far as I know still alive. I never had problems with TS or Eme. Always respectful a few youngster were jerks but for the most part respectable. Biggest problem I had was with the black cliques and they told me straight up was because I was white and by the book.

Mrsmorelock very real if they go through the GRAD program or "Snitch program" there will be a hit on them. May happen inside may happen upon thier release they will always be marked. Some will go after families too. Most will parole to the old neighborhoods too for law requires such. It is very real and very scary!! There are ways out but has to be voted on and approved by the "Higher ups" for lack of a better term. Scary life for a STUPID decision, but it is what it is. When these youngster get approached they find it glamorous to be a G. Yeah real glamorous to have to take orders which may include killing someone. This lifestyle does makes me sick but intrigues me too, as I have said before.

I am surprised dad u haven't met any decent guys. For they are in prison none are good guys let's face it. I don't even call mine a good guy I tell him he is the devil and I am his angel. lol....

As, long as you stay firm and consistent and respectful the STG's don't usually mess w/ you. Matter of fact when I worked TDC in 1997-1998 a fellow employee and I were sent to work the pod for they expect a gang fight to go down and knew we both had the respect so thought we could get intell or squelch it. When D and I went in the wing our faces went white for could feel the tension, and everyone had on thier work boots ekk... Thank god next in and out people went in and sneakers were on thier feet. Nothing went down that night phewww... So rank knows whats up and how to play the game too.

TB is a HUGE problem. They need to be STG for right now there numbers are growing and getting VERY dangerous. Esp with the wars going on against them. Can make things dangerous. Be safe

grmnclt_gurl
01-11-2009, 12:49 AM
Absolutely they will ALWAYS be in danger. They made a life altering decision when they decided to join. They old saying, "Blood in, Blood out" is not just Hollywood. I have seen some that have completed the program and get jumped at te unit they wind up at in GP. There is no easy way to handle this very bad situation. This is the world I deal with daily, and am so glad most of you do not have too.
This is the EXACT reason I mentioned in my previous post that I understood keeping them separated from GP, but give them some privileges back. Such as the opportunity to receive educational courses and contact visits. They have made the RIGHT decision to sever their ties with whatever gang and move their life forward, but at the same time shouldn't their be a way to protect them. (TXLAXDAD) I know you are not a "fan" of being compared to the Cali DC but, at least they have "protective custody" or "sensitive needs yard" (as they call it). TX does not. Shouldn't TX be able to come up with SOME way to give those that are genuine in their decision some of their privileges back with out putting them back in GP where everyone knows that they will be a target? Certainly SOMEONE can come up with a middle step between total segregation and GP, where they are essentially "marked for death"!? I know that this is NOT an "easy fix". But these people (for the most part) will be released back into society, and wouldn't it be better to give them access to things (educational opportunities and contact visits with family) that will help them re-adjust to the outside world and social settings rather than keeping them away from things that could help them adjust?
Again ~ Just my :twocents:
I know TXLAXDAD, that you are skeptical of those that are confirmed gang members, and I don't dispute your view of the "majority" but, there are those who are GENUINELY trying to change their lives and not make the same poor choices they have made in the past. It would just be nice if these guys had some thing that resembled "a light at the end of the tunnel" to help them on their new path.
There are Good Guys out there in ALL situations. You just have to be willing to see them.

TXLAXDAD
01-11-2009, 03:00 PM
This is the EXACT reason I mentioned in my previous post that I understood keeping them separated from GP, but give them some privileges back. Such as the opportunity to receive educational courses and contact visits. They have made the RIGHT decision to sever their ties with whatever gang and move their life forward, but at the same time shouldn't their be a way to protect them. (TXLAXDAD) I know you are not a "fan" of being compared to the Cali DC but, at least they have "protective custody" or "sensitive needs yard" (as they call it). TX does not. Shouldn't TX be able to come up with SOME way to give those that are genuine in their decision some of their privileges back with out putting them back in GP where everyone knows that they will be a target? Certainly SOMEONE can come up with a middle step between total segregation and GP, where they are essentially "marked for death"!? I know that this is NOT an "easy fix". But these people (for the most part) will be released back into society, and wouldn't it be better to give them access to things (educational opportunities and contact visits with family) that will help them re-adjust to the outside world and social settings rather than keeping them away from things that could help them adjust?
Again ~ Just my :twocents:
I know TXLAXDAD, that you are skeptical of those that are confirmed gang members, and I don't dispute your view of the "majority" but, there are those who are GENUINELY trying to change their lives and not make the same poor choices they have made in the past. It would just be nice if these guys had some thing that resembled "a light at the end of the tunnel" to help them on their new path.
There are Good Guys out there in ALL situations. You just have to be willing to see them.

Texas does have a PC program. We do more OPI's (Offender Protection Investigation) each day than any other thing. We take every single one of them very seriously. But a PC is put in an Ad Seg cell, which is what most on here are trying to keep them out of. California has MUCH worse gang problem than Texas. Both states have about the same number of inmates, but California has a higher percentage of confirmed STGs. I like many things that they do in California, I would like to see some implemented in Texas. The gang problem is nation wide and has been around forever. It is not a problem that has any easy solutions. I have seen prison gang violence up close and personal. I know that there are some decent guys in gangs, but I have a huge problem with someone that made a choice to join into an organization that has the type of morals these groups have. I treat them just the same as I do all others. That is my job. I just wish that we could open more programs, not a lot, but atleast 3 to 5 more. It would cut down some of the wait time.

soinlove07
01-12-2009, 12:17 AM
My man has been in Ad Seg for 7 years, confirmed hang member, was never in a gang! He admits to fighting a lot, he was 21 trying tom ake a name for himself in prison, and he hung out with the other Mexicans but he was never in the gangs and never contributed to their activities. TDCJ doesnt even have to prove how they confirmed him, is this correct? This is what I have heard anyway. It took him 1 year to get the STG officer to bring the papers for him to sign to get into GRAD, then its a 2 year mandatory 'investigation' period, then who knows how long to be on the waiting list before spending 9 months onthe program. My man says most of the guys in his POD are like him, confirmed but never really gang members. Locking a man in Ad Seg for over 7 years with a STG jacket that is bogus just irritates me. He has not had a write up since 2000! beforfe he was put in Ad Seg. TX needs to re think how they do things.

grmnclt_gurl
01-13-2009, 03:03 AM
Thanks DAD~
It is good to have someone with a view from a different vantage point. I think it would help A LOT if the "powers that be" would get at least 5 more GRAD programs up and running to cut the waiting list time down. But lets face it - How likely is it that that will happen any time soon? I do think that the paperwork needs to be handled much more "effectively" or "securely". As mshappy stated, it took her fiance a year to get his request for GRAD acknowledged. With my husband it took 9 months and he sent about 6-7 I-60's to the STG office before giving up on that route and going to the head of Classification with a request for a meeting and a letter in an envelope to be given to the GI before anything got done. Surely there must be a better way? As far as those who have cooperated and are now currently stuck in this endless waiting game; Can't they be given some kind of little step up? Like their contact visits with Family or education opprtunites back to give them something to keep their spirits up and remind them that they are on the right path now. Ya know?

TXLAXDAD
01-14-2009, 02:49 AM
The reason contact visits are not available is because that would expose the inmate to others from the freeworld. What would happen if a rival gang member recognizes them? It creates an unsafe enviroment for everyone around. I can understand how it would be nice to give them a little something. I feel it is a slippery slope. TDC is in charge of security, and they feel the best way is to have them not have contact visits.

Bchace74
01-14-2009, 08:32 AM
U know that actually makes sense never thought about that.

grmnclt_gurl
01-15-2009, 03:34 AM
Yah, I guess I was just hoping that there would be away around that aspect. I do understand tho. More than that even, I think it would be really good, for all, if they were able to receive some kind of educational courses. If there was a way to set up something for those who are in their investigational period/waiting list for GRAD. I would think that it would lessen the risk to them. It would also help them when coming up for parole, to show that they are still working to better themselves. Even being HS and/or SEG. It would also give their brains something contructive to do and help keep them out of "trouble" and their time go faster.

TXLAXDAD
01-15-2009, 02:34 PM
And I think that would be great as well. The only problem I see with that is it would openly indicate who was trying to get out of the gang at their current unit. I think they would not be very safe from that point on.

rvlm
01-16-2009, 07:44 PM
What we really need is a small unit for GRADS only, then there will be no problems with other offenders or gang members.

ReggiesLady
01-16-2009, 09:19 PM
This is something that I know everyone can't afford but Seg inmates can take college courses via correspondence courses. They have to get it approved but I've known a few that have done it and it helped them. They cost money but I think it's a good investment if they really want to make a change for the better.

Yah, I guess I was just hoping that there would be away around that aspect. I do understand tho. More than that even, I think it would be really good, for all, if they were able to receive some kind of educational courses. If there was a way to set up something for those who are in their investigational period/waiting list for GRAD. I would think that it would lessen the risk to them. It would also help them when coming up for parole, to show that they are still working to better themselves. Even being HS and/or SEG. It would also give their brains something contructive to do and help keep them out of "trouble" and their time go faster.

bemynetoo
02-20-2009, 01:56 AM
TXLAXDAD, do you happen to know how it is that some only wait a few months after their investigation and then others wait years and years?

also I have searched on google for this but there is little intel on grad. do you know what the success rate is? tia.

soinlove07
02-20-2009, 07:58 AM
I would also like to know the answer for this. We are one year into the two year investigation period. I've also heard of some inmates not even waiting the 2 years at all and getting into GRAD. IS there anything we can do after the investigation period to speed things up? calls?

psikocat
02-20-2009, 09:34 AM
From what I have heard, waiting time is loosely based on release. So people who are have mandatory release or towards the end of the sentence go before the people are are years away from release. It also depends on the unit's GI. James started the whole thing in October, he was told that his investigation period is already done and that his is already on the list to go to GRAD. I am assuming that it didn't that long for the investigation because of how long it had already been since he had any gang affiliation. We are hoping that he will get transferred to GRAD ASAP because his mandatory release date is within a year and its not discretionary. I have a number that TXGURL gave me, PM me and I will send it to you.

TXLAXDAD
02-20-2009, 02:07 PM
all the above is correct, plus the gang he is involved with has something to do with it, as well as his disciplinary record while incarcerated.

Lil.instig8tor
02-24-2009, 11:17 AM
This is false. I know of some that are. There are not as many in Seg. because the black STG gangs(Bloods and Crips) leadership is based in New York and California. These two gangs are not strong active recruiters inside. They have spilled over mostly to the freeworld side of the gang. They are not what you would call a "prison gang" anymore. Most of their wheeling and dealing is on the outside.
Actually the Bloods and the [ Hoover] Crips are from Los Angeles circa 1969-70's..I lived at 40th and Hoover St. but in Texas you are mistaken..They are gang members outside even before prison and operations are run from inside..yes some Black gangs end up in SEG but none have to go thru GRAD in order to get out of SEG. Black gangs pretty much are in General population and Hispanic and white gang members are sentenced to AD SEG. Mandingo warriors aren't even considered STG by TDCJ and neither were Bloods or Crips until after that johnson trial in like 04? They were considered "cliques"