View Full Version : Probation violation problems


kaczman
04-22-2008, 10:29 AM
When I was 18, I had a fake ID and I got caught while on vacation in texas for having a Fake ID. It was a 3rd degree felony charge, and I got 7 years probation. That was 3 years ago. I caught a receiving stolen property charge in ohio and served 6 months in prison. Upon my release, I contacted my PO the first day I got out and he said he had no intrest in my case, and felt the 6 months I served was sufficent enough to drop my case. He said he checked, and there was no warrants out of texas. To be safe, I called denton county probation, and told them my situation to make sure nothing came up. Well now they looked into it, and the probation department down there said he filed a violation report and there may be a warrant out for my arrest next week. Since my release, I got my old job back, and im employeed full time about 50 hours a week. I got an apartment and I financed a car because my PO told me I was free and clear. The worst part is that none of this would have happened had I not called texas and told them about my situation. I learned my lesson from prison and Im really trying to stay out of there. What should I do? What can happen to me?

JaycieDnTejas
04-22-2008, 10:59 AM
I'm so sorry about your troubles! Sounds like you were just trying to do the right thing.

If you can afford an attorney, I think that you need one, or at least a consultation with one to see what you sould do. You are in Ohio correct, not Texas? I wish I could be of more help but anything I say would be mere speculation.

I hope that it helps to know someone else may come along with better advice.

RobinsMan
04-22-2008, 11:07 AM
Well, for what it's worth, I'm not real sure that a violation report necessarily equates to a revocation. I think that revocation would require that whoever filed the report recommended revocation and then the DA in the county must accept the recommendation and make the motion in court. Did you get any indication of whether a revocation was in process?

kaczman
04-22-2008, 08:48 PM
The guy I talked to at the probation department said he got the cases I caught in ohio, and he filed the paperwork for a revocation and that it was more likely than not that id get a revocation.

RobinsMan
04-23-2008, 06:22 AM
Then as jaycie says, hire an attorney. You are allowed representation during the revocation process and you should really get in touch with one now while you are free to call and talk to one or more. There will (almost certainly) no chance for bail if arrested in Texas on revocation and once that happens you won't be seeing much of your attorney except for court appearances. Even though the DA makes a motion for revocation the decision is still made by the judge. You will get a day in court where your attorney can make a case for reinstatement, perhaps with a sanction, or mitigation of whatever sentence might be handed down. An attorney will also be able to negotiate with the DA, to the extent that the DA is receptive. I do not think that you will be given access to court appointed attorney for a revocation so if you have none you will go through it alone and, other than what you might say to the judge yourself, you will have no voice in the process.

kaczman
04-23-2008, 06:59 AM
As of now, I have two choices.

One is another cleveland attorney that says he would contact the prosecutor, probation officer, and the Court, and work out a settlement from here, and seek to transfer any continued monitoring they may require to the Adult Parole Authority here in Cleveland. In the very rare case, it would be necessary to hire local counsel in Texas, which he said he could do for me. He wants like two grand though.
The other option is an attorney in texas that was previously a texas judge and says he knows the prosecutor. He wants $5,000, and he wants me to stay up here and keep working and try to avoid getting pulled in on the warrant, which I didnt think would look too good infront of the courts.
Of course, Im trying to stay out no matter what, but if I have to go down there and serve some time I want to get it over with so I can live my life normally.

As of right now, I have my uncle who is a lawyer trying to call down there to see if he can work a deal.

What do you guys think I should do?

RobinsMan
04-23-2008, 07:24 AM
In order of preferrence, I think I would see what your Uncle can work out and then see what the Cleveland attorney can work out. In my opinion, $5000 for representation in a revocation is pretty high. There will be a hearing that will not take all that long. It is not a trial and will require nothing like the kind of preparation that a trial would. On the other hand, if that's what it took to stay out of prison then I would pay it in a minute. However, knowing the DA is no big deal and says nothing at all about what he can accomplish.

Unless I missed something there is not yet a warrant for your arrest. I think that the fact that you have representation in contact with Texas is evidence of a good faith effort to stay in contact and resolve whatever happens. Hopefully you can get it all resolved without any arrest and jail or prison time.

kaczman
04-23-2008, 08:01 AM
Thanks. Any other advice? How rare is it that I get the full 7 years in prsion that I was given for probation?

RobinsMan
04-23-2008, 08:11 AM
I guess I should add that if it comes down to a revocation hearing that you will probably end up hiring a Texas attorney in the end unless the Ohio attorney (or uncle) is licensed to practice here - even if he'd fly down however many times for $2K.

There is no way to know about the duration of the sentence. Just myself personally I find even seven years of probation for a fake ID (type and circumstance unkown, don't care to) a bit stiff so seven years of prison when many with seemingly worse offenses get less makes even less sense. It will be up to the judge - or the DA if an agreement was reached beforehand.

JaycieDnTejas
04-23-2008, 10:12 AM
Your sentence would probably depend on which (where) county. Seriously, some of the counties are harsher than others. I am thinking that whatever lawyer you choose, could request the motion to revoke "go away" and you could be reinstated with supervision transferred to your home state. Let's think positively that you are not going to get a sentence, but rather have all of this go away and you get your probation reinstated and transferred.

My daughter was originally on probation for 10 years regular probation not deferred adjudication -- the max allowed -- which was bizarre to us -- for first offense, etc. She did all right for about 3 of those years, but didn't change her friends.

Sometimes it does matter who you know, but in the "end" no pun intended, all that most (not all) lawyers really want is a plea and a payment.

Good luck and keep us posted.

kaczman
04-23-2008, 11:58 AM
Thanks for your comments JCD. I got the same thing, maxed out 7 years probation on the first offence in my life. I diddnt change my friends either, which is why I have the probation violation now. What happened when she went back before the court?

JaycieDnTejas
04-23-2008, 12:09 PM
Thanks for your comments JCD. I got the same thing, maxed out 7 years probation on the first offence in my life. I diddnt change my friends either, which is why I have the probation violation now. What happened when she went back before the court?

She went to report for a weekly visit to the probation officer (it was transferred to Dallas from the original county her offense was in) and he told her there was a warrant (she had tested + a few times and also caught a misdemeanor A charge which has subsequently been dismissed), so they put her in Dallas county for a week until her county came and picked her up. No bond offered, so she remained in jail until her court date in October -- in the meantime her lawyer tried to negotiate with the D.A. but they weren't very flexible and she ended up signing a plea for 5 years versus an offer of SAFPF-- her lawyer said they wanted 8 years and he tried for 4 but they wouldn't do it and offered her either 5 years TDCJ or SAFPF for 6 months (in which case she would wait in county probably 3-4 for a bed to be available, then the 6 months, then would go to a HWH for 3) and then be back on probation for the rest of her probation time so she opted for the 5 years with the hopes that she will get out within 1. The SAFPF would not have counted as any time served on her probation nor would the county time served count towards the 6 months of SAFPF so she was thinking she'd be out in about the same amount of time and then away permanently from that particular county. So that's the short version! Whew I'm out of breath trying to read that. Sorry!

JaycieDnTejas
04-23-2008, 12:13 PM
Another little something to think about -- some of these counties don't seem to want to deal or negotiate much with lawyers outside their little circle if you know what I mean. Not to say they won't but in our situation they were very inflexible and had a very good ole boy attitude.

kaczman
04-23-2008, 07:09 PM
How much time do you usually serve before comming up for parole in TDC?

kaczman
04-23-2008, 07:11 PM
And generally, how hard is denton county?

JaycieDnTejas
04-23-2008, 09:00 PM
For parole eligibility, when flat, good and work time = 1/4 of your sentence you are eligible for parole consideration. Like for a 5-year (60 month) sentence, parole eligibility kicks in at 15 months. The process itself takes several months, though. Try to stay away!

I don't know enough about Denton to know for sure. I've seen some miraculous outcomes considering the initial arrest charges. But then again, there are no guarantees. I'd get the very best, well-connected lawyer I could find!

JaycieDnTejas
04-23-2008, 09:06 PM
I don't know if my post went through, so I'll try to recreate it.

Parole eligibility/consideration kicks in when your flat (day to day) time + good time + work time = 1/4 of your sentence; for example on a 5-year sentence that would be 15 months. The parole process takes several months though and is very bureacratic and unpredictable.

Denton County -- don't have any personal experience but I've seen a lot of serious charges dropped on people because they had a well-connected lawyer. I live in Denton County but like I said don't have any experience with criminal charges here. Dallas is probably easier. My daughter's lawyer would have been great if it had been Dallas, Denton or Collin!

RobinsMan
04-24-2008, 07:07 AM
jaycie, you have to include good time in the final result. One quarter of a five year sentence is 15 months but that is flat time only. If they keep their lines and remain "diligently participating" then that time gets halved because they are earning as much good time as flat time thereby doubling the rate at which they arrive at the 15 months. For a non "3g" sentence the rough cut estimate is to divide the sentence by 8. So, 15 / 8 = 7.5 months and it will actually be sooner than that.

General answer for kaczman (How much time do you usually serve before comming up for parole in TDC?) is that it is specific for each sentence determined by the parole laws applicable to that offense and the length of the sentence. jaycie was giving an example for a 5 year sentence for an offense that does not qualify as "3g".

Count on RobinsMan to pick nits (I'm soooo lucky my wife loves me).

:):):)

JaycieDnTejas
04-24-2008, 07:42 AM
jaycie, you have to include good time in the final result. One quarter of a five year sentence is 15 months but that is flat time only. If they keep their lines and remain "diligently participating" then that time gets halved because they are earning as much good time as flat time thereby doubling the rate at which they arrive at the 15 months. For a non "3g" sentence the rough cut estimate is to divide the sentence by 8. So, 15 / 8 = 7.5 months and it will actually be sooner than that.

General answer for kaczman (How much time do you usually serve before comming up for parole in TDC?) is that it is specific for each sentence determined by the parole laws applicable to that offense and the length of the sentence. jaycie was giving an example for a 5 year sentence for an offense that does not qualify as "3g".

Count on RobinsMan to pick nits (I'm soooo lucky my wife loves me).

:):):)

Thanks for clarifying my confusing answer! My typing fingers don't keep up with my racing thoughts.

RobinsMan
04-24-2008, 08:12 AM
I didn't think it was confusing. It just needed the good time figured in.

But I also don't want estimating the PED to overshadown your point that this is just an eligiblity date and it can still take TDC a while to perform a review and vote on whether parole will be granted.

kaczman
04-28-2008, 11:51 AM
jaycie, you have to include good time in the final result. One quarter of a five year sentence is 15 months but that is flat time only. If they keep their lines and remain "diligently participating" then that time gets halved because they are earning as much good time as flat time thereby doubling the rate at which they arrive at the 15 months. For a non "3g" sentence the rough cut estimate is to divide the sentence by 8. So, 15 / 8 = 7.5 months and it will actually be sooner than that.

General answer for kaczman (How much time do you usually serve before comming up for parole in TDC?) is that it is specific for each sentence determined by the parole laws applicable to that offense and the length of the sentence. jaycie was giving an example for a 5 year sentence for an offense that does not qualify as "3g".

Count on RobinsMan to pick nits (I'm soooo lucky my wife loves me).

:):):)

What is "3g"?

JaycieDnTejas
04-28-2008, 02:44 PM
3g is a more serious crime and usually involves a weapon.

RobinsMan
04-29-2008, 07:46 AM
"3g" is a short reference to Texas Code of Criminal Procedure article 42.12 section 3(g) that has a list of offenses that are not eligible for probation. In short, it is a list including murder, aggravated offenses (with the odd exception of aggravated assault), sexual offenses and offenses involving the violation of a drug free zone. In addition to offenses in the list, if there is a finding by the court that a deadly weapon was involved then it also qualifies the offense as 3g. In both the Code of Criminal procedure and the Texas Government Code, there are many articles of law that refer back to this list that usually are for the purpose of enhancing or increasing sanctions or punishment.

lormur
04-29-2008, 06:30 PM
Denton County is small town with middle of the road, EXCEPT for DWI!!!!!!! I think a good local attorney could beat it for you.

Live2luvhim
04-29-2008, 07:10 PM
Hello all Im new to all this So maby someone can help me out on trying to figure my husbands time. Ok he got sentenced 4yrs for a non agg. buglery. TDCJ has counted all his county time he served in jail of 07 and sum of 08 of this year. And that gives him a year served on his sentence already . His miniumn release date is feb of 09. Max is 2011 How much of this time do you think he will have to serve before he is released? He just seen his ipo and got his Parole plan and she told him it would be about 3mon. before we knew something He was put on probation in 07 and went in on a probation violation .

momofthreetx
04-29-2008, 09:03 PM
"3g" is a short reference to Texas Code of Criminal Procedure article 42.12 section 3(g) that has a list of offenses that are not eligible for probation. In short, it is a list including murder, aggravated offenses (with the odd exception of aggravated assault), sexual offenses and offenses involving the violation of a drug free zone. In addition to offenses in the list, if there is a finding by the court that a deadly weapon was involved then it also qualifies the offense as 3g. In both the Code of Criminal procedure and the Texas Government Code, there are many articles of law that refer back to this list that usually are for the purpose of enhancing or increasing sanctions or punishment.

I have a question. (OK 2) If there are multiple charges running concurrently, why is it only one charge shows up on the website? Does that change the calculations?

JaycieDnTejas
04-29-2008, 09:27 PM
Denton County is small town with middle of the road, EXCEPT for DWI!!!!!!! I think a good local attorney could beat it for you.

Kaczman, I agree with lormur on this.

RobinsMan
04-30-2008, 08:52 AM
Live2lovehim there is no way to predict what the parole board will do. Not many people make their first parole but some do. They might not like that he failed on probation but with non-agg he may make his PRD. It's all guess work for us out here.

momofthreetx, I would have to guess that they may not yet be aware of another charge if it is not appearing on the website. If he has not yet been through a parole review then it might appear once they go through the details of his committment thoroughly. If he has been through a review then they have simply missed it completely and maybe they never will see it - though I wouldn't count on that and it wouldn't make it go away. If there is a concurrent sentence then, without knowing any details, yes it is very possible that it could change some - or all - of his dates.

Mahatma
04-30-2008, 06:32 PM
I contacted my PO the first day I got out and he said he had no intrest in my case, and felt the 6 months I served was sufficent enough to drop my case. He said he checked, and there was no warrants out of texas. To be safe, I called denton county probation, and told them my situation to make sure nothing came up. Well now they looked into it, and the probation department down there said he filed a violation report and there may be a warrant out for my arrest next week.

So the PO in Ohio said that the 6 mos. sentence was enough? Make sure I know which one your talking too. No parole in Ohio right when you say he said it was sufficient you mean it was sufficient for the Ohio charge? Dude that is a sticky situation. Were you mailing your fees to Denton and had no local officer on a felony charge??? Did you not ever get your probation transfered?

That does sound stiff for a fake ID. I know carrying a TDL with your picture and someone elses info in Texas is a lot bigger no-no than a fake ID.

I am not sure I understand what you told Texas? You called them and there was no warrant. Then they call you back and say there may be a warrant? Time had to pass for you to do all the things you said from the first time you talked to them and then them deciding a report had been filed. How did they get in touch with you the second time. How do they even know where you are, or have they known all along. If you had your probation transfered and picked up another felony charge I would think when you got out there would be a blue warrant from Texas waiting on you. If the PO in Ohio was also the guy that caught your transfered probation from Texas he should have been on top of that. If Texas never knew of the charge in Ohio and you just disappeared from reporting for six months there is a problem. If you hire a guy from Ohio to represent you he will more than likely hire a lawyer out of Denton to handle the case. In other words you would probably be hiring two lawyers. Denton is not that small in my opinion but it will still work like any other Texas court. In other words the judge and DA will know the attorney if he is from Denton and you want them to be buddies. The kind of buddies that sit together at every HS football home game.

Mahatma

kaczman
05-01-2008, 07:05 AM
So the PO in Ohio said that the 6 mos. sentence was enough? Make sure I know which one your talking too. No parole in Ohio right when you say he said it was sufficient you mean it was sufficient for the Ohio charge? Dude that is a sticky situation. Were you mailing your fees to Denton and had no local officer on a felony charge??? Did you not ever get your probation transfered?

That does sound stiff for a fake ID. I know carrying a TDL with your picture and someone elses info in Texas is a lot bigger no-no than a fake ID.

I am not sure I understand what you told Texas? You called them and there was no warrant. Then they call you back and say there may be a warrant? Time had to pass for you to do all the things you said from the first time you talked to them and then them deciding a report had been filed. How did they get in touch with you the second time. How do they even know where you are, or have they known all along. If you had your probation transfered and picked up another felony charge I would think when you got out there would be a blue warrant from Texas waiting on you. If the PO in Ohio was also the guy that caught your transfered probation from Texas he should have been on top of that. If Texas never knew of the charge in Ohio and you just disappeared from reporting for six months there is a problem. If you hire a guy from Ohio to represent you he will more than likely hire a lawyer out of Denton to handle the case. In other words you would probably be hiring two lawyers. Denton is not that small in my opinion but it will still work like any other Texas court. In other words the judge and DA will know the attorney if he is from Denton and you want them to be buddies. The kind of buddies that sit together at every HS football home game.

Mahatma


I had my felony transfered to ohio 3 years ago. He told me he thought it was sufficient and he "had no intrest in my texas case." I was paying supervision fees to ohio, and fines to texas every month. He was my felony officer in ohio.

The fake ID charge was "tampering with government documents" because they thought I made the fake ID since I couldnt provide where I got it.

When I got out of prison, I called my PO. He said he checked and texas diddnt have a motion to revoke, or a warrant out. I foolishy volunteered that information when I called them, and thats how they found out. Then I called them back, and the PO IN TEXAS that i had never talked to beside calling down to denton said he had filed a motion to revoke based on that information. My ohio PO for texas always knew where I was and I always reported to him, except when i was in prison.

I dont know who the prosecutor is, but the judge is jake collier. It is in the 158th court. I just want the best local denton attorney to try to get me out of this. Money isnt really an issue. I'd like to find the guy that went to high school with the prosecutor and takes the judge out to dinner. So far its a toss up between fred marsh and Jerry cobb.

lormur
05-01-2008, 08:07 AM
Well, I can tell you that Jake and Jerry grew up and lived in the same neighborhood, about a block apart for years and years.!!!!!!!!! Wish I knew who the prosecutor was, bet I could give you a bio on them also.

kaczman
05-01-2008, 08:50 AM
how would I find out?

lormur
05-01-2008, 11:33 AM
I believe that if you call the Court Coordinator for Collier's court that they should be able to tell you. also the Probation/Parole person should know

lormur
05-01-2008, 11:01 PM
Just because I'm curious, do you remember the original ADA and Judge?????? That is really crazy!!!!!!!! 7 years for a fake ID!!!!!!!!!!!

kaczman
05-02-2008, 07:54 AM
The judge was Jake Collier

mombat
05-12-2008, 02:54 PM
I wish I had answers for you, but all I have are questions of my own, and I found this thread while searching for help. If anyone can help me too, please?! My son is on probation in Dallas county for a felony theft of $2500 in October of 2004. Yesterday he was booked in Dallas for a DWI, second offense (first DWI also in October 2004). How and when will his po find out about the arrest if he doesn't self-report? Is the punishment much worse if he tries to get the dwi charge dismissed without telling the po he was arrested? His bac was BARELY over the limit, at .085. But I think just the act of drinking alcohol at all is a violation of his probation anyway. Does he need an attorney, or is he going to probably do time even if he spends a lot of money on defense? Or rather, if I spend a lot of money, he has two pre-schoolers and a wife to suppport and can not afford a lawyer.

RobinsMan
05-12-2008, 03:02 PM
It is also a violation of his parole if he doesn't report the arrest. I don't know how the PO wil learn of the arrest. It might be that the DA's office calls and tell them about it but your son should call and tell the PO himself. If it were me I'd definitely hire an attorney. I'd hire them for the DWI and let them handle any revocation procedings too.