I know a ton of other things would consider each case different, but drug charges in general are what I am referring to here..
Is prison the answer for the people who get caught up in an addiction?
California has new laws for drug cases to go to rehab's insteed.... what do you think?

Well, I've been in recovery for over 18 years and I've seen a lot. While rehab sounds like a great idea, it's really not all that great. A person facing prison is going to choose rehab, insist they want it, and complain they don't get it, of course, but it's not very effective in the long run. What you end up with is an educated alcoholic/addict who still drinks and/or uses. That's why they don't institute rehab instead of prison or jail. It's a waste of money. I'm sorry to sound so harsh, but I'm just speaking the truth. If a person doesn't desperately want to stop drinking and/or using, they're not going to no matter what. You have to hit bottom. People who go to prison are doing a version of what every drunk does when they're puking their guts up------"Oh please God, if you make this stop, I swear I'll never do it again". And then as soon as we know we'll live, we're off and running for the next one. Same with every addict who OD's and survives or has a bad trip and survives. As soon as it's over, the disease tells us that it really wasn't so bad and that we can drink and use and control it so we won't screw up the next time.

If someone truly wants to get into recovery, every prison I know of allows the 12 step programs to come in, and it's the 12 step programs that are proven to be the one most effective means of getting into recovery and successfully staying in recovery. Therefore, there IS the best kind of help already available to them and for free----nobody pays to get it and the taxpayers don't pay for it. Therefore, I have to say that I'm not for mandated rehab. The best rehab there is is hitting a bottom so darned hard that you'll do anything to stop living like that. I've seen people go through things that I think absolutely MUST be their bottom, only to see them go back out. But for a lot of people, prison can be what saves their lives.

I totally agree, It is just that, say a young dumb kid gets caught dealing and they throw this kid in a place with murders, rapists, it doesn't seem right... u know?

No, it doesn't seem right, but usually they do have somewhere to put young first offenders. Even if they don't, they usually don't actually throw them in prison on a true first offense-----there's usually a previous history of offenses before they really throw the book at them. Then they finally decide they need to learn a lesson they're not heeding any other way.

Why can't Texas follow in California's footsteps??

Toi You are absolutely correct. My husband was picked up by the Feds they put him in a rehab before sentencing , done good was going to get to self surrender all he had to do was stay clean. Call PO once a week and do random drops when he was told too. Within 2 mos. he wasn't calling no more and dropped dirty 2 times before he quit calling in. Needless to say the Federal Marshalls picked him up as soon as they found him. He has now been in for 3 1/2 years and has been clean the whole time still having 2 years to go. Prison saved his life and I know he is done with the drugs as am I. I also quit right after he went in. They have to want to quit. The sentences are way to harsh but sometimes Prison is all that can make them quit. Prison or Death.

Sorry folks ... when I was inside the #1 thing to bring a guy back in for parole violation was drugs and or alcohol use ... and almost all had been thru a rehab 'program' ... rehab is a waste of time and money unless the person is absolutely begging to be there AND has decided that EVERYTHING else in their lives is more important than their own pleasure. Addiction is about self-gratification. It is driven by the CHOICE to please yourself over doing what you know is right.

I've been inside ... and VERY FEW people are there for a true first offense ... I fight my addiction everyday ... and what keeps me fighting is the internal drive not to hurt the ones I love. It is my choice to put them above my own pleasure. An addiction is a two part problem. Once the chemical side is broken, then the mental habit side has to be maintained. If satisfying their addiction is more important than other aspects of their lives, then an addict will re-offend. All the mandatory/court ordered rehab in the world won't work until they make the mental decision to prioritize ALL others ahead of their own pleasure. Using is a choice.

I believe there needs to be a system where drug offenders are in a continous treatment program, seperated from violent offenders. But there are some drugs that should be treated as alcohol, and regulated, such as marijuana...but that's a whole other subject. There are far too many people in prison who are there because of a minor possesion charge and a violation of probation.

anyone else care to tell their opinions?

My son Has been in and out of Rehabs since the age of 14. He is now 23 and in prison. The Rehabs were a joke. He called then Camp Snoopy. Plus he wasn't ready to quit so nothing in the world would have helped him. Since his age of 14 he has been in Juv camps, Juv Hall, Charter Rehab, A half way house, Jail and now Prison. The rehabs often don't provide enough time for the drug to get completly out of their system. A 2 year sentance in Prison has. I have offered bribes to get my son to quit using, pleaded with him, done intervention and the bottom line is that it won't work until he is ready. Just when I think he has hit bottom he is back to shooting up. It tears the hell out of a family to watch this happen to a son, brother, grandson.......but I now know that he has to do it for himself. I have decided to love him unconditionally, but I don't have to like him nor do I have to accept his behavior. I have also recconed with the fact that he will either die from this addiction or the will be in and out of prison for the rest of his life. I just cannot see any light at the end of the tunnel.

Best to all! Julie

It is soooooooooo hard, Just keep on loving him...

There is nothing easy about this disease (drug addiction). Even if you wanna quit, usually you are at the point that you can't, really and truely can't put the dope down. Rock bottom was looking at the rest of my life without my love. My husband is the best father and husband that you could ever hope to meet, but the fact of the matter is, he would be dead right now if it weren't for going to prison and looking at the time that he is. The time we have left, whether it be behind the walls or outside the walls, we will remain clean and true to each other, talk about our struggles. My best friend was taken away from me, but not forever. I know this time he will come home drug-free and he will NEVER use again. So, do I want him to be in prison, NO NO NO NO NO!! Would rehab helped us? NOPE been there - done that!! I will be praying for you all - cuz the life after the drugs is almost as hard sometimes as the life during (just cuz ya didn't care as much during) Pray!!! Blessings to all!

Rebecca:cuffs:

I do believe in drug rehab, but I think it should be voluntary. I don't think that if you force it on someone, for instance, I have a sister with three children, I know she loves them or should I say the real her loves them, I have begged her to go to rehab, she said rehab is for quitters. She thought that was real funny. On the other hand, when my fiancee was busted, he was taken to county jail and was there for two weeks. He was as sick as anyone I had ever seen. Did they do anything to help him. NO. He was withdrawing from pain pills and cocaine. and when he got out. He stayed sick for a very long time. very sick. But did he once try to get anything? no. he toughed it out. I was worried about him because of his age and health.. I heard that going through withdraw could kill you. Don't know how true that is. but it scared me to death. He was offered things by people who thought they were doing him a favor, and he turned it down. He said that it wasn't worth the chance of loosing the time he had with us. and that drugs are nothing but a lie. and that anyone who had quit doing them would know exactly what he was talking about. He is the gently giant as I call him. And I think that if he had been given the chance to go to rehab instead of prison, he would have taken full advantage of it. But since it wasn't, he says he will use his time for education. and to improve his health. exercising and that sort of thing. He always sees the good in everything. Now you take some young person, who dosen't see things the same way, and you would probably not have the same outcome. So I see it differently, I think that an older person with no record and this being their first offense, and not a violent person, should have the opportunity to go to rehab instead of prison. they do profiles of people all the time through the investigative process. and they seem to be right on the money alot of times. so I think there should be a process to it, and not just let anyone in who dosen't take it seriously, but I think it would be a good thing. The prison systems are grosly overcrowded, and the vast majority are in for drug charges. So instead of spending sooo much of taxpayers money to keep someone in prison, I think that some kind of drug program would be good. He is supposed to get into one,and that is supposidly gonna take time off his sentence. I HOPE SO!!!!

Well, my boyfriend of 3 years just got sentenced to a Substance Abuse Program for 16 months. He is going in for Felony Herion Possession, and Resisting A Peace Officer. He has been trying to kick the habit for many years. He went to prison for 4 years for drugs before I met him. When I met him he was clean and sober for a while, but when things didn't go how he wanted them to he fell of the wagon. He would rent hotel rooms for 2 or 3 days at a time and shoot up. I had no idea what was going on for a long time. You would have never expected him to have this dark secret I guess you could call it. The man was a complete health nut. He would work out almost everyday, and eat extremely healthy. He was constantly busy doing something positive. We even recently bought a house together, and he was excepted to a Heavy Equipment Operating School. To know him is to love him. One day he went to an NA meeting in a foul meeting, and met someone with a connection to herion and coke. He turned into Dr Jekyl or Hyde, and rented a hotel in a town nearby and shoot up until the manager of the hotel called the cops because he wouldn't come out. They found needles and herion, and he was charged with resisting an officer because the had to bust down the door to get him out. Anyway, he has been sentenced for drug treatment. Which he says he truely wants to get better, and has for a very long time. Hopefully he wont become just an educated addict. He wants to recover, and I hope and pray he does. Drug abuse breaks my heart, and to be the onlooker in the situation killed me . I tried everything I could to help. i even cut up his credit card and tore up his checkbook so he couldn't dodrugsfora while. He was the type that would be drug free for months and then all of a sudden bam he was gone. Drugs have a powerful affect over people, and I read that 75% of all crimes are committed while under the influence. I admit I was in rehab for a while, and the first thing I did whrn I graduated from it was come out and get high. Though I have been clean for almost 2 and half years the act of going to the rehab didn,t magically make me sober, but I did learn things that helped me in the long run when I finally decided to strighten up. I think just about everyone has some type of addiction whether it be fast cars, caffeine, smoking, etc. Just some addictions are classifed as illegal. Anyway, so I just rambled on for so long. The person has to make the choice of when, where, and why they want to kick the habit I guess.

Like my fiance says..being in jail/prison isn't going to help..it's just going to make it worse and want that person to rebel worse once they get out. In post 'down state' prisons in PA (im not sure about other states) you can get more drugs than you could on the streets. I mean how the heck is that suppose to help? its not! My fiance tried to get into NA and the DOC won't let him because he's 'not sentenced yet', is what they tell him. They're are denying him self help. How are people spose to help themselves,when they are denied it..grr..i REALLY hate the government..

~*Angel*~

I believe that the system needs to treat addicts as addicts.try to help them...m(US)...maybe just maybe there will be one that plants a seed in the back of the head and makes a person desire to better themselves etc.I know many times I got locked up for "Possession" and it DID NOTHING for me but make me angry being in withdrawl w/ NO MEDICAL ATTENTION>>>>>>

Yes as it is true that there are as much access to substances in prison as there are in the streets......and it comes back to whether or not someone wants to remain drug-free. My husband has spent 15 months in jail/prison on drug charges and was very strung out when he got locked up......spent quite a bit of time doing thru the withdrawls. Yet, he has had the opportunity on several occasions to use and he always turns them down, even when things aren't going his way and when he is sad and stressed, whatever the case may be. He said to me the other day had he not spent the time that he has locked up he wouldn't have been able to do it. He has made the consious decision to stay clean and come home. No there aren't enough drug intervention and counseling programs in or out of prison, but.........


becki

I am glad I looked at this thread. I am kinda naive here. More than a little. I was reading all your posts with great interest.

My J is doing 18 months in state for screwing up on probation so much that the judge and his probation officer said well we'll see if this works. They got him at my house after he absconded to another state and came back. He is doing 18 to 36 for retail theft(which is all behind drugs). But the absconding and being hot got him state time this time.

It all started when he was nine. He has been in every rehab, mental health facility, juvenile, two stints in Vision Quest, county and now state. Duh, there is something here somewhere someone missed. He really actually doesn't know himself. He asked me that Christmas Day when I went to see him.

We have been going back and forth for about two years(9 months of this he has been in jail). He was doing heroin and other stuff. I refused to fight with him, scream, or argue. He knew how I felt. I can't even bear the thought of it. He wasn't allowed to use around me or my kids or in my house.
I was just letting him see how his "friends" were living and how the rest of the world lived. He told my best friend he was going to stop because it hurt me to much and he did. He would go see these "friends" and when they were looking for more he would call me to come get him and I would, I didn't care what time it was. Then one day he moved in with me. I didn't know how much he was using because I didn't see any withdrawals. He was with me 24/7. He was never alone where he could have been sneaking any. One night he went to have a tattoo done and called me every half an hour. Then he called me at 1 in the morning and was on the phone until 4 when he went to sleep. I kinda felt like his sponser.

He told me he can get anything in prison but he is staying clean. I love this guy. Something just tells me that he needs me and I know I need him. I had the local college send him all their stuff and he has me getting his transcripts and stuff. He is trying to get custody of his daughter, he wants to get married and have a baby. I really believe that all he wants is a normal life. He loves my letters. He said I make him think about things that he never really thought about before. I'm blunt and I don't pull any punches. And I won't put up with any more bullshit. He has one chance and I'm walking.

I have a hard time understanding addiction. I'm no damn saint by any stretch of the imagination, but I was never addicted to anything. It was all fun and party time. Is there something there that causes a person to become addicted? Chemical, mental, physical? I need someone to help me understand before he comes home. He tells me he is an addict and constantly asks me if I am ready to do this with him. I think that's what scares me. I don't know what I'm getting into. I know we love and care for each other immensely, but I don't want to be played and I want to be able to be strong for him. He let me know Christmas that he is going to stay clean. This time did it for him.

We are excellant together as far as communication. We can say anything to each other. He has huge trust issues and he is afraid I am going to walk away. I would never. I need him to much. But I need him clean. I refuse to put up with the drugs. He is a very sweet, non violent man but he is an addict. He treats me and my kids like gold. I am getting out of an abusive marriage and I am afraid of losing myself in him and letting him slide. It is going to be hard. We both have a lot of baggage and it is going to be a haul to say the least.

I am totally giving it all to God and praying that He will lead us.

Go to Nar-Anon. You say you feel like you're his sponsor. Well, no sponsor would do what you do for him. He has to do it for himself and a sponsor would require that of him. In having him call you every half hour and all that stuff, what you're really doing is being codependent and the only way not to be codependent is to take the steps to educate yourself to what codependency is and then further steps to make sure you don't live in a codependent way with him. If you're not willing to do this and he's not willing to do NA, then the chances of actually making it as a couple or for him making it in recovery are greatly minimized, if not actually slim to none.

"Something just tells me that he needs me and I know I need him."

I don't think you could express a much better definition of a codependent relationship.

People involved with addicts who don't have an addiction problem themselves get very irate if it's suggested that they need to go to a program too. That's so very sad, because what happens is that they'll stay in denial of the very things in their own life that will keep them and any children they may have stuck in dysfunctional patterns, which just perpetuates addiction. It's called denial, and a codependent person is in every bit as much denial as the addict. Only in the case of the person who isn't addicted to substances, in some ways there may be even less hope of change for them because they have a greater difficulty admitting that they have a thinking and behavior problem as serious as the addict does. It's the thinking that "I don't have a problem----HE has the problem-----if it wasn't for him, I'd be fine" that's faulty.

Often, once the codepency is dealt with, the couple can go on to have a good life together. But only if they're both willing to admit that they each have a serious problem and each is willing to get help for it independently. You going to his meetings with him won't do the trick----you'll need to go to your own meetings.

PS---I want to edit this to add that lunachild asked me in PM to take a look at what she had posted and I responded to her post while in the midst of some PM's, not noticing that this isn't her original thread, but rather a part of another person's thread. That's why it might sound kind of disjointed to others reading the whole thread.

Here's another one! What's with all these old posts coming up as new posts?

Clockwork Orange. That's the only way to cure these people.

My husband had a drug addiction and then he was rearrested and placed back in
custody, however the war on drugs in prisons is almost as worse as on the streets.
My youngest sister Gina died of a herion overdose in 2001. I think the best thing for
repeated drug offenders is a damn good rehab placement center with alot of emotional
support to help these people get off the adiction and stay clean. I just hope that all of
us that has gone through this with our loved ones, stays strong for them. Even if it
means attending N.A. and going to conseuloring with them as a joint family related
support foundation, and admit that yes we all fall off the wagon sometimes, but don't
agree and say yes I understand, you have to have the upper hand in situations like these. My father put my sister in rehab over and over and got her clean, but once she
was released she went back to her old habits, that unfortuntley caused her death. If
my dad had stayed on top of her problems, I think she would still be here to day.

Clockwork Orange. That's the only way to cure these people.
Oh, and how did the people turn out in that movie? No, I seriously doubt dropping acid in someone's eye and "programming" them is going to be the solution. Was a good movie way back when but it was just that.. a movie

Yes that would be a serious step backwards in solving any problems to do that let alone to be influenced by a movie let alone that movie. Society already do a good job of programming people with media as it is, I would hate to think that we would even imagine that torture (which it really was in Clockwork Orange) would be the answer to managing a disease such as addiction. Managing the disease with good old fashion honest and reliable support is a much better starting point. They are humans, not labratory rats, they are brothers, sisters, mothers, fathers, children, grandparents, they are people with real hearts and feelings.

My son has been in prison into his 5th year. He has had drug rehab for the better part of his sentence. In missouri you have to have 6 months of drug rehab before you come out. My son called to night and is in the 6 months program he took a 10 week treatment just before he went into the 6 month one. I am hoping this time he can stay clean and out of trouble . He has not used since he was arrested. My son will be coming home in 176 days that is in August when his youngest son starts kindergarten.
This year he will be able to go to his sons ballgames. The war on drugs is tearing families apart. How did we get into this mess? Well I have my opion and I am sure most of you will not agree with me but it started with one woman and her campaign to get prayer out of schools. Then dr. spock and his you can't whip your kids. I am on a soap box sorry . It is my pet peeve.
dannysmom

Clockwork Orange. That's the only way to cure these people.
DO MEAN PRISON OR JAIL>? IF SO, U MUST NOT HAVE EVER BEEN THREW IT (SUBSTANCE ABUSE), AND UR SOOO WRONG. PRISONS AND JAILS DO NOT REHABILITATE OR HELP, IT JUST POST PONES THE TIME THEY MISS USING. JUST LIKE ANY OTHER ADDICTION, A DRUG USER CANNOT JUST STOP. THEY NEED TO LEARN THE STEPS, HOW TO FIGHT THE URGES...WHAT TRIGGERS IT? ETC... A DRUG ADDICT THAT HAS BEEN IN AND OUT 4 THE SAME THING AND NOTHING ELSE ABVIOUSLY NEEDS TREATMENT. A LOCKDOWN REHAB TO LEARN AND GET EDUCATED ON WHAT TO DO. BEEN GOING THREW THIS 4 SIX YEARS..SORRY, JAIL AND PRISON IS NOT THE ANSWER:pissed:

I'm going to recommend that my brother go to drug councelling although he is 5 months clean now. I don't think that forced abstention is the answer.

But these people (my brother included) don't fully realize the aftermath they have left behind with their BS. If my mom was on his "restitution" list, he'd owe her about ten thousand dollars. They definitely need some kind of counseling.

AARGH! Where is the spell checker!!

Kelly

Most interesting thread. I was just thinking about this yesterday. My stepson stands to receive more time than a neighbor's grandson who shot and killed his mother and stepfather! My stepson was a heroin addict who committed armed robbed in several states (plus ripped off the entire neighborhood). The charges keep on coming and I know that none of this would have happened if not for the heroin. I know jail/prison is saving his life but we as a society have got to do better.
I used to think addicts had to reach rock bottom - that's what I learned years ago. But I've since learned that rock bottom can mean death and who needs that. I've heard Dr. Phil on tv say that forced interventions do in fact work. He had a boy on his show who was forced into rehab that they are following. Not sure of the outcome as we have to stay tuned in order to see what eventually happens to the boy.
I hope someday a scientist will invent something that will give the addict no choice but to quit drugs. I know someone with a device implanted in his arm that's supposed to keep him off heroin but he told me it "only works if you want it to". Drug addiction is a horrible disease that so far seems to be winning. I just think we've got to find a better way to help those who are unable or unwilling to help themselves. I think too that the drugs are masking much deeper problems and we need to get to the root of those problems ... not an easy task.

Definately put these people in rehab, and get them help. Australian prisons were so overcrowded with people that were caught with drugs, they have a policy now called called the three strikes method.
First, if you are caught, you are made to go to drug and alcohol councelling, that is actually held by the police, and they drill in your head, how bad it is, how bad prison is, and really try and help.
Second offence, you go into drug and alcohol rehab run by community health.
Third time, you get fined, and you have to go to extensive drug and alcohol rehab.
Get caught again, you go to prison.
It has actually worked, and the prison systems arent crowded with people that are addicted to substances, and IF they make it to prison, they do more extensive rehab to cut time off there sentences. The courts arent wasting there time with drug offenders only caught with possession, and the prison isnt overpopulated with people using drugs.
They also have programs for people addicted to substances such as heroine, where they run a methodone programs run through the hospitals, and community health. They can then monitor these people, and councel them while on this program.
Now if you deal drugs, or make drugs thats another matter.........

I understand that Maryland recently passed a rule that would send nonviolent drug offenders to rehab vs. jail. Anyone else know anyting about this new rule?

My husband got butsted in March. I am so proud to say that since that day he has not touched ANYTHING! I know this to be a fact because his job tests him every week. He has not been to court yet over this thing and he has never been in trouble before. We are terrified he is going to get prison time for a first offense. They set his bond at 75,000 and his cousin ** dealer) who got popped for a second time at 35,000. I agree they gotta WANT TO QUIT before it happens. The cousin who hasnt even been to trial for the first time is still using. We dont have anything to do with him anymore. We figured it best that way since if something went down AGAIN, we sure didnt need to be there. My husband is 44 years old and he is scared to death. Maybe this is what is called "SCARED STRAIGHT"

Bye now I am absolutely positively sure sending a drug addict to jail does not solve anything. In order to solve the problem you must first face the problem head on; not lock a human being up and throw away the key. Thier are Drug Deversion Programs out there, that have been very successful. Like Prop. 36, and Drug Deversion. These are long term programs that take lots of time and effort in order to complete. These Drug Programs can be a very positive stepping stone for an addict, but they will work only if you work them.

I am not sure what "prison" accomplishes for a drug offense.
Drugs are available in prison ( I think most people know that).
So if someone is going to reform, they are wanting to do so.
If they want to "dry" somone out ...why not do so with a
medical staff to help them? It is long a complex process.
But I don't see the "help" such as what counseling and
support do prisoners get that a drug rehab center (inpatient
or outpatient) can't more adequately provide?
If another crime is involved...well, it has to be judged on
each case. I think we have to try to offer medical
and social alternatives before adding to an already
"troubled" situation by the harshness of a prison enviornment
and the social stigma added to an addiction.
Hitting "bottom" is different for everyone.
To some it's the confrontation ...losing or endanger of
losing a valuable personal relationship, job, ect.
And to some....it's the to "die or not to die".
For the people who did change in a prison or rehab program....
how many times before it was successful and what made
the difference?

Kate

I know a ton of other things would consider each case different, but drug charges in general are what I am referring to here..
Is prison the answer for the people who get caught up in an addiction?
California has new laws for drug cases to go to rehab's insteed.... what do you think?

The love of my life is serving 4.5 years in a Arizona hellhole for her mistake. This is her second time (1st was 5 years for $40 of herioin). The hardest thing for her is once she quit for a while she got hooked on Methadone which is another trap and according to susan worse than the orginial because they kept trying to up her doses. Then she got in a accident and got hooked on Perscription drugs such as Oxecotton. She's been in since the start of 2003 and since I now live across the country I can only visit 4 times a year. She's been clean since then and what a difference! Her eyes are clear and she is turning back into the beautiful woman she once was. Even the needle tracks are starting to go away. The point is she couldn't quit until she finally hit "rock bottom" and nothing is certain still but we take it one day at a time. Back when we were living together she was using and I didn't call her on it. That won't happen again. I love her and we're getting married and I'll do anything for her that I can, but I'll never overlook the signs again. When she gets out we'll both be attending meetings.

Ok, I have to say that this is a very hard topic to decide what would be the best way. I know that the ONLY way you will change an addiction is if you really want to. No matter where you go or what you do, you won't change if you don't want to. I was a dope head for 2 years and I went to rehab. I will be honest, the only reason I went there was to get out quicker than the two years they were going to give me. Sure I have not been completely recovered (I still drink and smoke weed) but I am at no means as bad as I was. I don't think they should send everyone to a rehab that gets high, b/c face it-not everyone wants to change AT ALL!!!! But prisons do not rehabilitate!!!! There are drugs there and you most of the time come out and go right back to your old ways. Sure some people do change, but the number of people who don't change is far greater. You should have the option. Sure some people would choose to go to rehab b/c it's not prison, but why they are there they might learn something that can either hepl them then or sometime down the road. Just b/c someone is a drug addict doesn't mean that they can't change and make something of their lives. It doesn't matter how long they were getting high there is hope for everyone!!!! Hugs:p
-Jackie

I am really glad this was posted. I feel very strongly about this subject although that is not the reason my husband is in prison but it could have been nor do I use drugs or alcohol.

I feel our justice system is handling people with drug problems totally wrong. What does locking them up in jail do for someone that has a drug problem? They get out of jail eventually and they will just start using again pretty that is pretty much guaranteed.

They need to put them into some kind of drug treatment program and teach them how to live life sober, not lock them up and let them go through drug withdrawals through the prison system. They need to give them drug education.

This is the exact reason our jail are so over crowded. Just because someone is on drugs does not make them a criminal, it is sickness just like any other sickness and it need to be treated medically not in prison.

Would you lock up someone in prison that had diabetes or cancer? No, they treat them, well drug us is a sickness also and need to be treated as such.

This just my opinion

Laurie

This is a great and informative thread and I think the nail has been hit on the head. Is prison going to solve it? Is putting someone in treatment going to end the using? No, only the individual can make the decision to enter and complete a program. Prisons are there to protect the public. Does anyone have numbers on prison SAP's vs. others on the streets? No doubt a completely voluntary non-court ordered program would have the best numbers because the individual has decided on their own it is time to stop. If it is proven that a court ordered SAP program is more successful than prison in changing lives then I would support it but, as has been stated here, given a choice the user will always choose drug rehab and the reason will be because they want to avoid prison not that they are fully committed to quitting.

I think eveybody deserves the chance the first time to get a rehab program. It might be enough to scare some people.
It did not work for my son. He went through several programs under the court system. Even before that, he went to the youth camp in Utah where they spend 7 weeks in harsh desert conditions. Each time he was just going through the motions and returned to his previous behavior. He was laughing at all of us and our attempts.
Now he is coming home from prison in January, wanting desperately to remain drug free. He said he is sick of this life of being away from freedom and family. Yes, prison did the trick and not the first time in prison but the second. He is so stubborn!
He just told me the prison woke him up at midnight to do a random drug test on 100 inmates. He said it felt so good to not be scared of the results. He said that he used to tell himself he did drugs to relieve stress. He has come to realize that drugs were causing most of his stress.

I don't agree with either choice in this poll. Rehab first...if that doesn't work, THEN jail time.

Impressive vote count - too bad the system doesn't operate as we feel it should - its changing, but not fast enough!

The fact is our system a few decades ago was geared more toward rehabilitation for drug offenders. The probation system was intended to be a rehabilitation tool. Unfortunately politicians learned the greater profit came from incarceration; the greater expenditure from attempts to salvage lives. Prison is not the answer to the drug problem. Prison is not even the answer to the crime problem. For more than 100 years this has been demonstrated and yet, the American people ignore the facts. Rehabilitation is not a magical cure, but it is a far better answer than locking up individuals who most often already suffer mental and emotional problems.

I am a recovering Addict. I have 11 years sobriety this March. The decision was mine to make, but I did not do it alone. I did not receive help from the system when I asked either. In fact, I went 3 times to the facilities available to the uninsured here. And, 3 times, I said I have a drug problem and need help. I also said 3 times I want to die. It took all the courage that I could manage to ask for help, but ask I did. The answer I received each time, "Come back next month". Yes, tell an addict this. I went home and broke out the Quervo Gold and the reefer and I felt better the only way I knew how. Within a few years, I suffered a major stroke due to drug use. Had someone been willing to spend the money to offer me the counciling that I sought I was ready to change. The system saved that meager amount, however I am now a Medicaid and SSI recipient so they lost far more. Do not think my story is unique, because it is not.

It is not just my fate that I have learned from. I love people and all my life those around me have talked to me when they need help or comfort. I know the souls of many, many addicts from not only all over Southeast Texas but many states. Many people want to quit, but know they are alone in their efforts. Help is not available except for the wealthy or insured. And programs do help, even programs as simple as AA or NA.

I quit but not alone. I was blessed with good friends, some of who though they used themselves offered me a strong support system, until I could stand alone in my walk. Unfortunately, too many do not have this, nor do they have benefit of treatment. A treatment program does not have to mean get out and stay clean. Any program has been successful if the things they teach remain with the addict. Some take the tools a program offers and only put them to use many years later. The important thing is that they learned them and when they made the decision to quit, they had them to use.

I have been to 4 and 5 funerals in a single year, where the deaths were drug related. I have lived in many of our local towns and have loved and been loved by a lot of the area addicts. This remains so. I watch these people die premature deaths and I am ever amazed that society can turn a blind eye to their pain. Addicts, even those of us who do not like to admit it many times self medicate. There is a prevalence of depression anxiety disorder, and after a few years of drug abuse often schizophrenia. We lack self-confidence, self control and the normal will to live. There is in the vast majority no desire to harm others, only self. Locking someone up in this condition can benefit noone, least of all the addict. I have saw dozens of examples over the years, including many of those we have laid to rest.

My fiance is on death row. Drugs were a big part of his fate. When he was a child in trouble, our system locked him up. As an adult, he suffers an existence that rips at my soul, but many in society would honestly believe because drugs were a part of his life he deserves whatever he gets. Noone deserves the pain of addiction or punishment for their illness. Yes, punish crime if they commit them beyond their use, but treat the illness. This country has for a profit motive created a drug problem that is becoming epidemic. A problem that now condemns millions and that can only condemn more.

It will get worse. Americans spend billions on medical care to be prescribed drugs such as oxycontin, valium, codeine, etc. I have met those who tell me it is not the same. Their medication is prescribed. They should meet the dozen people I have watched suffer life-threatening withdrawal from oxy, which are nothing less than a refined form of heroine. These people had better hope rehab works, because they will need it. However, they do not have to worry with prison because they score legally. When I stood over a friends teenage son and we said goodbye to him our final time, I saw where the system is taking us clear as day. That child’s life was not worth the cost of rehabilitation, yet government officials happily line their bank accounts with kickbacks from a prison system that has became a billion-dollar industry in our country.

Ronald Reagan declared a war on drugs, long ago. Our prison system now houses 2 million, with 8 of 10 in for drugs. Does it sound as if we are winning the war by incarceration. The sad fact is there are programs that work. They require intensive supervision, strict guidelines, drug testing, and dedicated staff. They require money that taxpayers do not want to spend, until it is their child we bury.

KrickeT,
That is an excellent writing. I agree when somebody goes to a rehab program and asks for help they should get it immediately. That is the best time to help a person change. But many times the program is wasted on people who go there only because it is court ordered. My son went a couple of times but he only went because he had to, he had no intention of giving up the drugs. In fact, he admitted scoring the day he got out. All of his friends do the same thing.
It would be wonderful if the people who asked for the help would get immediate admittance. Those are the peolple most likely to be saved. Or if they would put somebody in the treatment when they are at their lowest.
Example, I once called the police because my son was acting crazy from whatever drugs he was on and threatening to kill himself in my front yard. When the police got there, they found an illegal knife in his pocket. They put him in jail for a weapons charge instead of sending him for psych help. He ended up with a felony charge with a 5 year sentence. He pled guilty beause he was told it was "easier" and that he didn't have a chance since he was caught with the "weapon" and it didn't matter what the intention was. The courts also made it sound worse on his record because it states that my son was found with an" illegal weapon during an altercation with his father". He had no intention of hurting anybody but himself. The "altercation" was my husband trying to calm my son down so he wouldn't hurt himself.
So I guess it is all in the timing of when the treatment is given. It is best if the person realizes he has hit bottom and not when the addict is going through the motions to avoid jail time.

Well Said Kricket!!!!!!!!!

As Far As Giving First Time Offenders A Break Like Some Of U Have Posted....not In My Case. My Fiance Had Absolutly No Previous Record And He Was Cut A Deal To Serve 3 Years Minumum And Could Of Got Up To 26 Years For Selling Methamphedamines. Its Just Not Right. He Did The Crime And He Deserves To Be Punished But Not In This Way. I Think They Should Look At Each Case Individually Not Just "well, He Sold This Amount So Hes Gonna Do This Amount Of Time" W/out Looking At The Person And Their History. He Was A Full Time Student Trying To Make A Little Extra Cash To Help Pay The Bills-ya Its Wrong The Way He Did It But Working At Burger King Just Dosnt Cut It.

You are right, if an addict opens himself or herself up to ask for help there should be no delay. The window of opportunity is small, because we are acting in fear to begin with. Given any excuse, we will abandon the entire idea of treatment and crawl back into our comfort zone. Still, never doubt the staying power of what is learned even in forced treatment. Treatment in any form has a very real potential to be of benefit.

What many people do not understand is noone knows the extent of the wrongs the addict does better than the addicts themselves. Guilt for our wrongs is much of the reason recovery is such a long way off for many of us. We may not seem to care. We may not seem to take the value of the steps and the counciling seriously, but they most often hit home inside of us. Believe it or not, no person alive has less respect for a drug addict than addicts.

What people must consider before they declare forced treatment a waste is, will it be better that a person is forced to learn the things that will help them stay clean and possibly use them ten or even twenty years after the teaching to get sober, or is best they never have the teachings that can save them at all. It is the same as saying treatment is not worth it, because only 2 of 10 will walk away clean and remain that way. In my mind, those 2 who make it represent 6 children somewhere who will have a sober parent `12 grandchildren who will have a sober role model, a community that will have a contributing member that will give service and possibly save 2 others, and a country that will sooner or later 2 by 2 save enough people that we may actually see a real difference made. It truly is one day at a time and it is also, one heart at a time.

There is research that shows we can at least save 40% of those put into forced treatment if the money is spent on the right programs. If our politicians want a drug war, this would be the way to do it. These programs are tough on drug crime and most importantly tough as hell on the addict. They make the grade or they do time, knowing when they are cut loose, they face the same test again. As well, there is no 30 days of treatment and your out. The programs that change lives extend to at least the 18 month threshold that assures an addict who has maintained sobriety has begun to get a real grasp on life as a functioning member of society. The cost seems extreme in the beginning but, it is also shown that after 1 offender has spent 3 years clean society has saved thousands in incarceration fees, cost of law enforcement,copurt costs and reduced waste of property and life.

If anyone has a loved one in trouble, I recommend fight for treatment every time you have the chance. They will take something away each time they are a part of a program. If, they are incarcerated they will take things away too, but these things will not be conducive to sobriety. We seldom see the inside of an addict. I have spent a lifetime hid in fear and shame.Even 11 years clean I have only begun to face the guilt that has lain heavily on my soul for decades. I learned to stay clean one word and one lesson at a time, so can others.

Our country is facing a crisis as hard as our politicians try to keep us from realizing it is happening. The number of incarcerated grows at frightening rates, not yearly or monthly, but weekly and daily in this country. Still, drug use is not diminished it only increases. Prisons are not going to fail us they have already. We, as a nation must now find a way to make people understand that if we save any human life it is worth more than the almighty dollar we so fear spending.

Most importantly we must also make them understand that one life at a time salvaged certainly beats our past record.

Wow. Excellent writing!

Thanks for the great writing KrickeT!

I'm a sober guy who has gone into prisons to try to help others (and keep me sober!). While I would dearly like to fix all the government programs or non-programs to maximize the chance of recovery to those inflicted with alcoholism and addiction, I think that is beyond my power...the wheels of government turn way too slowly for me!

I continually ask myself what it is I can do to try to help the person who still suffers. On some days, I'd tell you that the person has to be willing...to admit they have a huge problem and that they need help. Yet, I've sat in the visiting areas of prisons, talking with guys, and (my observation is that) there are very few who will admit they have a problem or, if they acknowledge the problem, will try to do anything about it. Many have told me that they will drink/use the hour they get out. Some of them have proved that to me!

My point (besides the one on top of my head) is that if a trip or trips to prison won't make alcoholics/addicts reach out for help, what will? A few days behind bars convinced my life was a mess, but I'm one of the very lucky ones. Yet, I don't think we should let people who kill people in car accidents go because they are using or drinking. If someone robs a store 'because' they are high on something, I don't think rehab is suitable if they won't admit they have a problem.

A local government program (28 day type) detoxs and counsels the same guys over and over. 4 or 5 turns in the barrel isn't unusual. I visit there a couple times a week and try to help. I'm in California.

I've tried to help with my wallet (bad idea!), giving shelter (great if you want your house robbed), being a friend, and actively pursuing 12 Step stuff (which I still do). Yet, to me, the results are pretty dismal. My experience is the same as yours, while there are lots of recoveries there are way too many funerals. And far too many people actively pursuing the lifestyle of addiction and, to hear them tell it, hating it. In total, not a pretty picture although there are bright spots of recovery.

I don't know what the government should do. I don't think Prop 36 in California has wiped out addiction--statistics I've seen indicate it is a success so the approach has helped some. Ex-Governor Davis tried to gut it--there is a reason he is "EX" governor. But, I know that kids can still get drugs yet we have a society where it is unacceptable to rat out your dealer. I know that kids who get booze because there are sick adults who send them down the path who are not held responsible. I know that selling drugs is big business, big money and that, we as a society, pay for that. By being users or by cleaning up the wreckage. Those problems are too big for me to handle.

I don't know the answers. Often I question if my own efforts are worth much. The guys I have "helped" (who are still clean after years) would probably have "gotten it" from someone else. I've probably only helped myself by trying to help them. I'd really like to know what I could do to reach that person whose defenses seem inpregnable...the person goes back to prison over and over for the same stuff, leaving behind loved ones, families and friends. One of those people is in my life today, and it just keeps getting worse and worse. In the end, after years in prison, months in jail, months in high cost rehabs, he always "chooses" to use again. It is very sad.

I agree with joeslilbaby. Think about it! Rapists, murderers, and robbers have victims who are not willing to participate in the crime. A drug user is their own victim. They're not involving others. If others wish to be involved then it is with their consent.

Why are drug users being comparable to violent criminals? Yes, yes, I know that sometimes drugs can lead to violent crimes, but I've known co-workers, family, and friends that had substance abuse problems and never violently hurt anyone. Not one.


I totally agree, It is just that, say a young dumb kid gets caught dealing and they throw this kid in a place with murders, rapists, it doesn't seem right... u know?

Marjohar - do you ever think that it could have been you instead of your husband? I think about that sometimes.



Toi You are absolutely correct. My husband was picked up by the Feds they put him in a rehab before sentencing , done good was going to get to self surrender all he had to do was stay clean. Call PO once a week and do random drops when he was told too. Within 2 mos. he wasn't calling no more and dropped dirty 2 times before he quit calling in. Needless to say the Federal Marshalls picked him up as soon as they found him. He has now been in for 3 1/2 years and has been clean the whole time still having 2 years to go. Prison saved his life and I know he is done with the drugs as am I. I also quit right after he went in. They have to want to quit. The sentences are way to harsh but sometimes Prison is all that can make them quit. Prison or Death.

Splooofy, there is hope. This sounded like I was reading about my brother's past and my mother's words. My brother was 26 years old before he finally left drugs for good. Drugs were always available through visitors slipping drugs to them and from corrupt COs. So the temptation is there too. 10 years later after leaving his habit, my brother now owns his own business and makes too much money, is married, and has four wonderful healthy children. It depends on the individual. The stronger family unit he was raised by, the better chance he has. You sound like what we went through and I bet you did your best and that he will come out of it and succeed. Tough love is the hardest but has the most rewarding outcome.



My son Has been in and out of Rehabs since the age of 14. He is now 23 and in prison. The Rehabs were a joke. He called then Camp Snoopy. Plus he wasn't ready to quit so nothing in the world would have helped him. Since his age of 14 he has been in Juv camps, Juv Hall, Charter Rehab, A half way house, Jail and now Prison. The rehabs often don't provide enough time for the drug to get completly out of their system. A 2 year sentance in Prison has. I have offered bribes to get my son to quit using, pleaded with him, done intervention and the bottom line is that it won't work until he is ready. Just when I think he has hit bottom he is back to shooting up. It tears the hell out of a family to watch this happen to a son, brother, grandson.......but I now know that he has to do it for himself. I have decided to love him unconditionally, but I don't have to like him nor do I have to accept his behavior. I have also recconed with the fact that he will either die from this addiction or the will be in and out of prison for the rest of his life. I just cannot see any light at the end of the tunnel.

Best to all! Julie

Sorry But I Have To Say That All Rehab Does Is Teach Them How To Pass Drug Test And Fool More People . Nine Times Out Of Ten The Ocassinal User ,starts Selling To Support His Own Habit , Then They Start Making The Stuff , The Money Is So Easy They Forget What It Can Be Like To Be The One Who Doesnt Have The Money To Buy . Some Start Stealing To Suport Their Habit . I Believe In Tough Love Programs . Maybe Real Prison For Some Of These Guys Is Not The Answer But They Need More Than Just A 6 Months Stay At A Hospital.

Well, I've been in recovery for over 18 years and I've seen a lot. While rehab sounds like a great idea, it's really not all that great. A person facing prison is going to choose rehab, insist they want it, and complain they don't get it, of course, but it's not very effective in the long run. What you end up with is an educated alcoholic/addict who still drinks and/or uses. That's why they don't institute rehab instead of prison or jail. It's a waste of money. I'm sorry to sound so harsh, but I'm just speaking the truth. If a person doesn't desperately want to stop drinking and/or using, they're not going to no matter what. You have to hit bottom. People who go to prison are doing a version of what every drunk does when they're puking their guts up------"Oh please God, if you make this stop, I swear I'll never do it again". And then as soon as we know we'll live, we're off and running for the next one. Same with every addict who OD's and survives or has a bad trip and survives. As soon as it's over, the disease tells us that it really wasn't so bad and that we can drink and use and control it so we won't screw up the next time.

If someone truly wants to get into recovery, every prison I know of allows the 12 step programs to come in, and it's the 12 step programs that are proven to be the one most effective means of getting into recovery and successfully staying in recovery. Therefore, there IS the best kind of help already available to them and for free----nobody pays to get it and the taxpayers don't pay for it. Therefore, I have to say that I'm not for mandated rehab. The best rehab there is is hitting a bottom so darned hard that you'll do anything to stop living like that. I've seen people go through things that I think absolutely MUST be their bottom, only to see them go back out. But for a lot of people, prison can be what saves their lives.

OK..... But what about when they give you 20-life when you have been clean for 3 years! Maybe you havent been affected the way some of us have been. Staying clean isnt an option for me. And my brother wasnt given the chance. Narrow mindedness will get you nowhere. Congrats on your clean time sorry it seems to be such a problem for you. Good luck and thank your God you are free and able to talk like that.

Sorry But I Have To Say That All Rehab Does Is Teach Them How To Pass Drug Test And Fool More People . Nine Times Out Of Ten The Ocassinal User ,starts Selling To Support His Own Habit , Then They Start Making The Stuff , The Money Is So Easy They Forget What It Can Be Like To Be The One Who Doesnt Have The Money To Buy . Some Start Stealing To Suport Their Habit . I Believe In Tough Love Programs . Maybe Real Prison For Some Of These Guys Is Not The Answer But They Need More Than Just A 6 Months Stay At A Hospital.
Just wondering have you ever actually been to rehab?

Christophers' Mom

I wish they would change the laws in Georgia, mine has to serve 40 months on a 10 year sentence.

Intense drug rehab. Not at the local state run facility!

I believe in drug courts -- meaning -- I believe that circumstances should be considered for possession of drugs, not just a 2-20 or some such sentence randomly thrown out there.

I am not sure if this will post at the right place, but I keep reading posts about a safety valve. What is it, and how does one qualify??/

From what I understand the 'The Safety Valve' is as follows:

The safety valve is a clause of the Crime Bill that will allow certain first-time, non-violent drug offenders to be exempted from the 5 or 10 year mandatory minimum sentences that would normally apply to them and be sentenced instead under the federal sentencing guidelines for periods as short as two years.
Hope that helps.

I am not sure if this will post at the right place, but I keep reading posts about a safety valve. What is it, and how does one qualify??/

My Ray got 6 years on his first offence, drugs, arghhhhh i hate them. he had 2 years probation and slipped one time, went into detox and intensive out paitent counsling. a month later his new probation officer saw the failed urine test, violated him and sent him back. The probation officer stood in court, demanded the judge give my husband 3.5 years. Fortunatly the judge listened to my husbands lawyer, and my statement. My husband still was sentanced to 6 months
With time served awaiting his hearing, and the 85% rule here in Va. he should be home in Feb . of 06.
Does jail work for stopping drug use? NO. Its gonna happen only if the addict wants it, AND if the support they receive includes their spouse and family.. Lisa

I know it sounds like amade up story but it,s not. My son was at his girlfriends house and got a phone call from an aquitance and was asked to go pick up drugs, was given the money and the driver was an undercover. So he got served with a secret indictment. He,s serving a 2 year sentence.

I am studying criminology right now and I just finished doing a paper on the "crack crisis" of the late 1980s. I will paste it here if you sre interested:

“The thing I fear most for America’s youth is crack. Crack will be the downfall of most of our teenagers and will turn many of our teenagers into criminals. Only a national-level war on drugs will stamp out the problems caused by this evil drug.”



This statement, typical of the “crack crisis” of the late 1980s, is indicative of the problems drug scares cause in society. From a criminologist’s standpoint, this political statement not only deviates greatly from statistical evidence, but also diverts attention away from crucial social problems that underlie abuse, forming incorrect public perceptions.
Official data painted a much different picture of crack use than the politicians and media. In fact, “there were no prevalence statistics at all on crack; and no evidence of any sort showing that smoking crack had come to be even the preferred mode of cocaine use, much less of drug use” (Crime, 50). When looking at official evidence, a statement that crack “will be the downfall of most of our teenagers” seems puzzling. Unfortunately, the average consumer does not have or pursue access to statistical evidence, so statements like this are instrumental in forming their perceptions about the prevalence of drug use.
This trend in drug war discourse to distort the frequency of usage has been termed by criminologists as “routinization of caricature – worst cases framed as typical cases, the episodic recrafted into the epidemic” (Crime, 49). So although the evidence shows otherwise, there is a purposeful misrepresentation of frequency of drug use.
What could be the purpose of this distortion? Why would media and politicians want to misinform the public? With the media, the answer seems to be in the “appeal [of drug scares] to important groups within American society” (Crime, 51). A desire for ratings means a desire for alarming drug abuse stories. For politicians, the answer is more complex. “(T)he new chemical bogeyman afforded politicians across the ideological spectrum both an explanation for pressing public problems and an excuse for not doing much about them” (Crime, 51). In other words, politicians could avoid complex social problems that require equally complex attention and funding by blaming an “evil drug”, thus liberating themselves from any obligation from those problems.
Consequently, the result of this avoidance of underlying social problems means that the core issues like unemployment, poverty and homelessness remain basically untouched (Crime, 51). Drug scares shift the focus from social problems to the individual and their personal morality, and “they divert attention and resources from those larger problems” (Crime, 51). As a result, a perpetual downward spiral of sorts emerges – increased policing is used to control the “epidemic”, while the deeper problems remain untouched, and the urban poor, suffering from that lack of attention, turn to crime and hard drugs as a means to escape their despair and deprivation (Crime, 51). In essence, it can be said that in this way drug scares actually work counterproductively with regards to actual drug use, and their only effectiveness lies in the rewards they offer to the media and politicians who generate them.
Another contemporary example of crime that has been distorted to play on public fear is serial murder. Attention given to serial murder “continues to focus on the individual offender” (Crime, 45), even though “(i)t appears that social, legal and environmental factors play a major role in determining the prevalence of this crime” (Crime, 45). In this way, serial murder is handled in a similar way as crack, where individual morality is the main focus, and the underlying social issues are largely ignored, which can act counterproductively in preventing this type of crime.
Routinization of caricature seems to be somewhat of a factor in serial murder as well, especially in popular culture. Enter any video store and one will encounter entire sections devoted to serial murder. The average consumer can surely name at least a handful of serial murderers and perhaps even their methods. The sensationalist nature of serial murder is very attractive to the media for it’s ability to draw viewers, and thus receives more attention than is proportionate to it’s actual prevalence in relation to other crimes.
In conclusion, the motives of the media and politicians are a direct factor in the formation of public perceptions about crime. When those motives deviate from statistical evidence, the results can be seriously detrimental for society – serious social issues don’t receive the attention and funding they deserve, and the crimes that are in question may actually be perpetuated further.

Statistics show that on the federal level first time drug offenders get an average of six years. Now granted, you don't serve all of that what with RDAP and all, but that's still a significant chunk of time. I think the drug war is rotten, myself, although my ex-husband probably never would have quit without having done a year. A year was plenty. Five, ten, 20 for dealers is pretty sick. Most dealers I know, and I have known more than my share, got into it because they are addicts. I am an addict with 2 years clean and I see it as a mental illness, an obsession, more than anything else. Thank god I'm free of it, now.

My husband got 25 years on his first offense. He was out and about doing cocain when a friend asked him to drop off some "goods" to another "friend". The goods were packed in the trunk, and when my husband got there, the house was already staked out by the FBI. My husband got 25 years for Dealing and Distribution.

After being in Prison for 5 years, the ruling was overturned by an appellate court. Ronnie was in the wrong place at the wrong time.

I agree that he shouldn't have been doing drugs, and that time serving this offense was necessary. Unfortunately, the system is so out of whack that it's easier to get drugs on the inside, than out on the streets.

Well I never thought that I would say this but going to prison has helped my son. From a young age he started doing every drug he could. Finally he became a herion addict. Well he went through every program and mental health program that we could find. I was always running in to save my son from jail or trouble. I always prayed that a light would go off in his head and he would wake up. I have been through hell with this boy and back. I can't believe that someone who could go very far in life has chose to do this. Well last year he got sentence to 10 years and must do 5, for drugs and VOP.Before he went in it was always someone elses fault for his choices. What a change he has made. I can't believe I'm talking to the same person. He knows like I do that this is the only thing that could stop him. While on the outside he did'nt want to stop because he LIKED IT. I miss him like crazy and when I write or talk about him I cry. Drug abusers don't stop or change until they are ready. Believe me when I say I have no love for the prison system or how our love ones are treated. I know in my heart this was a good thing for my son or he would be dead. My daugther decided to join her brother with drugs and has been in a program for 5 months. She to was in and out, and I have custody of my grandson who my husband and I have raised. We have spent thousands fighting the father who have nothing to do with the child. This choice that people make to do drugs, they have no idea how they will hurt everyone around them. Please notice how I say choice because it is a choice. Its all up to a person and what you decide to do.

Sorry But I Have To Say That All Rehab Does Is Teach Them How To Pass Drug Test And Fool More People . Nine Times Out Of Ten The Ocassinal User ,starts Selling To Support His Own Habit , Then They Start Making The Stuff , The Money Is So Easy They Forget What It Can Be Like To Be The One Who Doesnt Have The Money To Buy . Some Start Stealing To Suport Their Habit . I Believe In Tough Love Programs . Maybe Real Prison For Some Of These Guys Is Not The Answer But They Need More Than Just A 6 Months Stay At A Hospital.

Ny name is Sherrie and I'm a greatful recovering addict. I just got out of rehab in Jan. Have you been there? Let me tell you what I learned. I learned how to deal with life. I was taught by some of the most caring and loving people i've ever encountered in my life. I learned nothing about fooling tests or people. I learned how not to fool myself. I thank God everyday for Pearson Hall. Its true alot of people come out and go right back to the streets. Those folks aren't hungry for recovery. Jail is the answer for some ppl. But not all. You want someone to learn dope smarts? Send them to prison. Some come out with a worse drug problem then when they went in. :rolleyes:

Welcome BabyJo and thank you for posting such a positive story. You are very right that you get what you put into it though I will say that not every rehab is right for every person. It would be wonderful if everyone's story was as positive as yours and if every addict was prepared to put the effort in that you did. Congratulations and keep up the good work !!!
You should check out the addiction forum if you like, and perhaps spread some of that positive spirit you have there too. http://www.prisontalk.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=202

I too, am a recovered drug abuser like a lot of you posting replies. While I have not been to rehab or prison (or have anything against my record for that matter) I definately have realized though experience from many years of using that it's a choice to want to quit and not something that you can be forced into doing. Sure, people can help you and be supportive, but it's YOU and only YOU that can decide when you want to stop. Since drugs are so prevalent in prison albeit expensive, even if you get your a** beat down for owing big amounts to dealers while in, you'll go to any length to get your next fix. Prison may not be a place where you decide to want to quit, but a place where depending upon your intake outside of prison beforehand (esp. narcotics) your hell going through withdraw constantly isn't worth the effort of keeping up your drug habit. Rehab is basically a joke because you still have access to the street prices and you meet new aquaintances that are also court appointed and thus this makes new contacts. Drug addiction is a disease of the mind just like any other mental disorder and either people don't accept this or don't realize it. It is my opinion that within the system, it should be treated as just that and special steps should be made to understand the user and fix their abuse. Individuals with drug related charges should not be put in with people that have other convictions, period. (If drug abuse was the reason for their crimes ie: murder, this is a different story. Robbery - rehab first, prison later) They should be in a medium security prison with a medical staff and psychiatrists. Weaning them slowly off of their drug (like methadone injections for heroin users) or a full body flush with fluids while sedated could get them clean then continue with their rehabilitation while locked down with no access to availability from the outside world with even tougher checks from visitors and CO's from bringing stuff in. Expensive, yes..but the system should think about it. Go through a lesser sentence while being locked up in a prison rehab or live off the state for years and years? Have you ever seen a full blown addict? They would be eaten alive in prison and couldn't stand up for themselves because the withdraw has you so weak you can barely move. If you don't rehabilitate the mental disease, they will go right back to it when they get out. There are people in prison that were kids when they went in for drug charges and are still there and are now grown men. What have they learned now? Not to want to go back into prison? They didn't want to go in the first place. Sure, they may have become drug free in prison and won't ever do them again, but at what emotional cost to themselves and loved ones? People have sympathy for the mentally retarded because they were "born" that way. Why no sympathy for drug abusers? They weren't saying as a child, I want to grow up some day to be a crack head or a junkie, ruin my life and smash all of my hopes and dreams. I don't even want to get started about people that are in for pot charges. A good majority of prison related cases are from drug related charges or doing a crime from being on drugs. Although prison may not be a good answer for a lot of these cases, it's an answer and it will probably always stay this way. Drug abuse starts with a mental affliction that is either placed upon the offender such as a bad childhood or genetic inheritance. If you're depressed, why not stay happy all the time?

"serious social issues don’t receive the attention and funding they deserve, and the crimes that are in question may actually be perpetuated further."

Amen to that. Will any of this ever change about prison sentences? Probably not. Inadequate funding, no sympathy and ignornace will keep it from happening. I don't condone drug use and see it as an excuse for a lot of people's problems, but I still sympathize. There comes a day when you look in the mirror, you truly see yourself and realize you've had enough. I am so thankful for those who stood by me with all of my crap that I placed upon their shoulders and whose hearts I broke. If I didn't have their support I'd be turning tricks or stealing to get my next fix. There is a certain level of support that is needed, but if you know and love an abuser..be careful because they will put you down and out before they give it up even if they don't want to do what they're doing to you. Make a firm line that shouldn't be crossed and stick by it. For three years I was bangin it while pretending to live life. There is no real life. There is only a hollowed out shell of a being that has nowhere to turn to except your dealer, a spoon and a lighter and some dark corner where nobody will bother you. I have regrets, but thank GOD I was smart enough to never share needles and was lucky enough to not end up in prison. Well, there's my 30 cents. It takes experience to understand these situations, until then people judge and are misguided by what they perceive and hear. If I wasn't an abuser I would probably be yellin like the rest to send em on in to jail. If you can't beat it, let heartache beat it for you.

I guess you could say I have some strong feelings on how drug cases should be handled. As we all know, there are a number of different circumstances involved. In particular, there are those who are only busted for their use and or possession of drugs. Then there are the others who thruough their addiction, commit other offenses, but are basically related to the drug addiction. Some of the other offenses are petty in nature, where there is no use of force or violence, but then there are those who use violence as an end result of their addiction.
There is also another factor involved in all of this, the individuals background... mental or physcial abuse, or a combination there of. When you couple mental and physcial abuse with addiction, you have a person who is sick... no two ways about it. As long as they have not used violence they should not be punished, but rather given the help they need, as is the same for the addict who was just busted for possession, or the one's who may have bounced a bad check to buy their dope. They need the help. Those who have used violence need help also, but they might need far more than is available.
Of course, I do not condone violence in any form. I also do not stand behind the dealers, they are the one's that need the jail time, they need to pay just for being who they are! But those are just my views.

God Bless you all, pray for our loved one's who are addicted!

JR

Just to remind you--America has gone into the wastelands of God's Kingdom with all of their man made laws and spiritual poverty. What other people do in their own homes is their own business. I don't do drugs, or smoke cigarettes and I rarely drink alcohol but I have no right to impose my life choices on anyone else. What we eat, smoke or drink is our business. Christ told us "what goes into the mouth is not sin...what comes out of the mouth (i.e., lying, false witnessing, accusing others) is a sin." (Matthew 15:16-20) Since you would rather believe in man's propaganda, you will be judged for accusing others. If you don't forgive others, neither will Our Father forgive us. (Matt. 6:15, Matt. 18:35, Mark 11:26) Christ said he does not accuse others but someone here does. (John 5:45) The Roman Emporer thought he was a king of kings but was not. We don't do as the Roman's do if we don't live in Rome. We need to have true liberty, true freedom of choice. Christ said to Zaccheus who sat in the tree watching the sinners go by to get down from that tree because Christ was going to live in his house. If Christ lives in your house, don't watch the sins of other people. Clean off your own stoop, first. (Matt. 7:1-5) There is one lawmaker who can save and destroy. Who are you to criticize others?(James 4:12) We do not have a Christian nation nor do we have a Christian President. He is a fake and our draconian lawmakers are fakes. Woe to them! (Matthew 23:13-39, Luke 11:46-52) I feel sorry for you if you follow the wolves in sheep's clothing. All of you Americans who are brainwashed have fallen and you aren't as smart as you think you are. Wake up America. Stop this madness today! Sandy

Having read some of the posts on this topic, I realize that there are different circumstances that are involved here. My feeling is somewhat a simple one. Non-violent offenders who are addicted to drugs and or alcohol should be given a chance to fight their addiction, and prison is not the place to do that. You have to take into consideration each individual. What was their life like before they started using? If you really look at it, you will find that many have had serious traumatic issues before they started using. And some of those people, did not have the education or resources to seek help once they got involved in using. I have been through the 12 Step program and am still very involved in AA. But I have seen first hand those people who just did not know what to do or who to turn to. They may have mental problems as well as addiction problems. And if they have mental health issues before they started using, well their addiction was an easy thing to see coming to others but not to the individual themselves. So many people I have seen in the program, do not have the educational background or mental capacity to fully understand that they need help, therefore, they don't search for it or get it. Many people I know who have went through this, including my own wife, know they want to get off of it, they do sometimes reach out for help, but noone is there... or at least noone they know is there to recognize what is going on. If you think you know what addiction is, then you know it is an illness. You don't send people to prison just because they have cancer! Study the causes and effects of drug/alcohol use and the physical and mental handicaps that these people suffer through and you will see that it is in fact a grave and serious illness. Yes, they need help, they need love, they need support and yes they need God. But someone has to tell them about it, someone has to offer the help.

I heard a professed alcoholic make a statement just the other day, he don't like drug users being in AA meeting. His statement had to do with this very topic. He stated that "dope users who steal shit ought to be busted and put in jail". So I asked him, "what is the difference between an addict who may steal a lawnmower, compaired to an alcoholic who drives home drunk" They are both commiting a crime, but chances are the addict did not hurt anyone, but the alcoholic is taking his life and others forgranted by driving. His response to the situation I presented was; "I ain't never had an accident" and my response was; "you haven't yet".

Come on lets get real here. These folks do need help. If they are in jail, then they have hit bottom in most cases, so now is the time to educate them, offer them the help, and to me that is the bottom line.

Thanks for listening to my rant. God bless you all.

JR

I wish I had a "Quick Solution" to the problem. But most of us Addicts look for a Quick Fix. I believe Addiction should be handled as a Condition, not a Conviction. Addiction should be handled with a Treatment not a Punishment. Especially since the prisons are not immune to the presence of Drugs. The System thinks by taking away their freedom they'll just quit and think twice before they use again.

WRONG! If they really looked into the problem they (C.D.C. system) would see that the Addict doesn't have The Freedom to be taken away, anyway. So they don't see it as a consiquence. The Drug takes their freedom. We as Addicts arn't going to think twice about something that helps get rid of all those "think twice issues", (temporarely of course) but it starts the cycle, that is a viscious circle.

When were locked up, it removes all Lifes issues we should be dealing with, that the prisons now control for us. Leaving us with the only problem we want to deal with and that is where to get our next fix, and we find it in their prisons. We need to be shown how to deal with Life's issues. A treatment center with the focus being on who we are as a person living in this society, what are responsibilities are, and how to handle them effectively, a Rebuilding of Self Program. NOT a focus on how to JUST STOP USING DRUGS, Obviously we JUST Can't. We need to focus on the things that we can actually use to Live Life. NOT!! How to Avoid Drugs, NOT, How to learn what the triggers are to Avoid Drugs, NOT, HOw to stay away from the people who are Using Drugs, (when thats the majority of the people we know and love) and Now they want us to Bond with complete strangers who are trying to avoid drugs and the People who use them. Based on the mere fact that we all want the same thing "To Be Drug Free".

Well I want more than that, and if I focus on "Being Drug Free", thats exactly what I will strive for "MY DRUGS FOR FREE". & thats when I exchange my Freedom to do Drugs.

In a "Nut-Cell", We need to focus on Living with Ourselves, Living with Others. Learn the skills we needed to learn as children so we grow up into responsible adults. As it stands now were adults with child like skills.

First off, welcome to PTO !!!!

I agree with much of what you say, however the last part I have a problem with. Most addicts have issues usually from childhood or early teen periods that have caused trauma of some sort that was never dealt with. Or many addicts have a pre-existing mental condition or disease that has been left untreated and they are self-medicating themselves. So long as this is ignored, an addict will never be able to over come their addiction.
As well as this, as far as the maturity part; most addicts remain at the level of maturity that they were when their addiction first started and they do not mature beyond that until they can obtain a substancial period of time clean.
You are very right about the fact that they have it all wrong, taking away their freedom as a punishment for having a health condition/disease is not the answer and you are also right, it does make it easier to focus on what their condition/disease needs. Drugs are very available in prisons. That is certainly not a secret.
Just my few cents....


In a "Nut-Cell", We need to focus on Living with Ourselves, Living with Others. Learn the skills we needed to learn as children so we grow up into responsible adults. As it stands now were adults with child like skills.

Even though I have read some positive post on how jail has turned some around, that has not been my experience.

I have to say that prison is not the answer! I think they should be sentenced to 2 to 4 years rehab. and while they`re there they have to work to pay their way. Prison won`t keep them clean either if they really want to get the stuff. no matter what, the entire rehabilitation system needs to be fixed pronto!! Most of the councilors at my brothers facility were ex-users, which is fine, but three of them fell off the wagon and one is now doing time again. The whole thing needs alot of work. I think they throw people out way to soon. My brother was given the boot after nine weeks because they needed his bed. He went back as an out patient but ended up doing yard work (free of course) and not getting the counciling he needed. Chores are a good thing but that was bad.

LI`L SIS.

Rehab Not Incaration

With the meth epidemic as bad as it is in this country the jails are overcrowded, and the prisons are too. There are not enough rehabs. Especially in my state. Almost nothing for low income abusers. I think a whole new approach needs to be implemented to deal with this. What's there right now is apparently not working.

I know a ton of other things would consider each case different, but drug charges in general are what I am referring to here..
Is prison the answer for the people who get caught up in an addiction?
California has new laws for drug cases to go to rehab's insteed.... what do you think? I prayed my son would receive treatment. I begged his attorney to try to get it. he didn't even try. just tried for a plea, and now he is in state jail for selling less than 1 gram of crack. he was selling to support his addiction. I think all prisons need to offer real help for all crimes, not just drugs. just my oppinion. :)