OK, here's our thread ladies. Anyone want to start out? I think we should just keep this particular thread going because it will be kind of like having our own forum.

For those who may be reading this and don't know what it is, some of us ladies who have relationships with Lifers felt a need to have a place to go for "girl talk" amongst ourselves since we have issues that might be a little bit different than all you great ladies who have loved ones who are getting out sometime or at least sometime sooner than ours.

Any ladies with loved ones who are Lifers, come on in!

hello ...my husband is doing 25 to life, and i was mad at him for the last 12 years and dident have anything to do with him because of what happened. you see are daughter was only 8 mon old.he was only susposed to do 16 months. anyways I could never move on with my life. and i knew that i still loved him so i wrote him to make a long story short i plan on visiting him soon (if i grt approved) and i real scared. alot of time has passed. and i guess im just affraid of letting myself trust him again, any advice please

I don't blame you for wondering if you can trust him again. Just do it one day at a time and try not to let anything about the past get in the way of the present and future. He's been in for a long time now and that does change a person a lot. Time changes all of us a lot, but especially when a person goes to prison. I think if you can stay with the present and not let the past mess with your mind too much, you have a good chance of healing a lot of things for yourself, him and your daughter. My thoughts and prayers will go with you on that first visit. Be sure to let us all know when it's coming up so we can send our prayers with you. I'm praying you'll get accepted to visit him, too.

whichru, have you seen such a total change in his values that you would have a reason to trust him again? Or do you think that since you feel that you love him that means you should trust him too? If someone had betrayed me in the past, he/she would have to do an awful lot of repair of the situation for me to trust them again. Even then it would take a considerable length of time for me to believe that their character had improved to the point that I could feel it was safe for trust to return. Bottom line, it's just plain foolish to trust the untrustworthy. Especially if you love them.

Wishing you the best…

Adrienne

in the past 12 yrs he may have changed for the better sometimes when you lose someone you love because of your actions it makes you reevaluate your life and you decide not to make the same mistake twice but be cautious in case he hasnt changed go in there with your eye wide open

Flowerchild is right that just because you believe you love him isn't reason to believe he's trustworthy right off the bat. You have to be realistic and watch for the signs that there have been changes before making a commitment. Even if you don't make commitments in a relationship, being able to go see him and make some amends on both parts is going to be a good thing for all concerned. You can always just be friends even if you have to wait for trust to build again.

i think the worst part is hes been in shu for the last 10 years up at pelican bay..but ill let u know how it goes

I'm sorry to hear he's been in the SHU so long. It will do him good to get a visit. I'll be looking forward to hearing how the visit goes.

TOi AMO.. thanks yes this is a good way to vent and get support .. i struggle with the ups /downs of emotions .. of being involved/loving a lifer.. but then i just say to myself if nothing comes out of it, except being there for someone .. than that is it..
I know it is going to take a very long time.. to even try to get him moved to a more "enjoyable" visiting situation.. right now we have been visiting behing glass for about 5 years..
Today is my birthday .. and my baby made it so sweet by making a call , and they in turn called me.. and he sent a really cute card.. i am hoping to make a visit for weds..

Donna

Thanks for this thread. My husband is serving a 25 to life sentence. He has served about 20 yrs. I met him as a pen pal last year.

Fred is serving life without parole and that means our relationship has to be by mail, mostly, so we all know how we have to make adjustments to include them in our lives and share things by mail and phone that aren't possible to REALLY share that way. What are some of the ways that you all do this? I think it would be good to share ideas and feelings about this.

One thing I told Fred early on is that I'd never fill my letters with how much I wanted him here with me, because I know that would just make him feel uneasy, knowing that I was constantly wishing and hoping he was here. I want to deal with what is and be close in whatever ways we can, but that I'd never want him to feel that he was failing to bring anything to the relationship. If he ever wins an appeal and gets a possibility of getting out someday, that will be great, but for the time being, we'll have what we have to the fullest extent possible and we're both grateful for that.

This is a great thread, sometimes it is hard not knowing when or if your guy will ever get out. My family has asked me about that, and my response is...then this is my life, I can't imagine life without him, if all I get is 6 hours a week then I will cherish that time with him. I love him that much, most people just don't understand.
Kim

My man is not a lifer and I guess maybe I shouldn't post, but I just wanted to say that you ladies are very strong women. I hope with all of my heart that the men you love on the other side realize what they have in you.

I agree Toi, the wishing and hoping on our end is not good for them to hear about. And that is the best way to go about things. Knowing that they are needed , wanted and appreciated is what they need. Lee is LWOP, but I keep him an everyday part of my life. We write everyday and talk 2-3 times a week for almost 10 years now. I couldn't imagine my life without him in it. And the funny thing about it is he helps me just as much as he says I help him. I am pretty sure without him to lean on my butt would be in a padded room somewhere! Love to all!

Thanks Moodysgirl. You're welcome to post here too. We don't want anyone to feel they can't post on this thread if they want to say something. Especially not someone as nice as you are. :)

I feel bad because Fred sends us gifts and we can't send anything back. He says just pictures, pictures, and more pictures and all our letters are the greatest gift he could ever get. He's so generous and so giving and I feel bad knowing he doesn't have much for himself but yet spends what little he has on us. He even sent us a commissary list to have the kids pick out "goodies" on so he could make them a Christmas package of food treats and he's also getting them a gift certificate for a bookstore online plus ordering them computer learning games. I feel like telling him to stop, but I can tell it means so much to him that I just don't have the heart to. All I can send to him besides pictures and letters is books. And I can't even send a little money for birthday and Christmas because only wives and relatives can do that.

Well, that's one of the problems I know we all face.

It is rough. I am not married to Lee, however I can send him money whenever I want. I don't understand why they won't let you send in money. That's just another of the many unreasonable rules I guess. Where is Fred? I have no problem sending money when he needs it, before he was transfered to where he is now he had a really good job and always sent money out to me. I would just hold it for him and send it back to him whenever he was running a little low even though he always said it was for me.

Fred is in Montana, and the rules there will only allow a wife or a relative to send them money. The only family he has is his mom, but it wouldn't do me any good to ask for her address because if he guessed what it was for, he'd be upset with me. He says he believes a man is supposed to take care of a woman and children, not the other way around, and that even though he can't take care of us, he wants to do what he can to make us happy.

Thanks for this thread, my husband is serving a double life sentence, it's good to know there are other ladies who know how it feels to be apart from your man for a long time.

Anne

I'm hoping we can all share coping strategies and experiences here. Those who are new to the exprience can get help and understanding from those with more experience and we can all benefit by being with others who share a common kind of relationship. We don't have the usual victories of parole dates and our men coming home, so this is a thread to share the other victories we might still have to celebrate.

Of all the relationships with prisoners, being the wife, fiance, or other loved one of a Lifer is probably the least understood by society. We have a couple of threads going right now where people are wanting to do papers or make documentaries about why anyone would marry a Lifer. I don't know about anyone else, but being someone who has chosen to do this instead of fate and circumstance choosing for me, I'm not sure my reasons would make any sense to someone else who didn't choose it, much less to someone who wouldn't choose any kind of relationship with a prisoner, period, much less a Lifer.

I like what Life2thsequel is doing in wanting to give Lifers a positive showcase for the good things they do and the positive impact they have on the prisons they're in. They've got some serious crimes in their pasts, but the Lifers I've become acquainted with seem to have become stronger and better in character after being in for awhile and are the least likely to whine and complain, even if they're wrongly convicted. What do you all think? Have you found this to be true?

Hey Ladies, my man is doing what's called in Kansas the hard 40. 40 years wop. We are going through some major problems right now. We were to be married in December, I don't know if that will happen with the way things are going. I'm very glad to have found this thread. He's constantly asking me what he can do for me in his situation. I tell him that he can be my friend, my lover, and share my world. He gets depressed and wants so bad to be home with me and the children. I know that's no excuse for him being mean, but I think he acts mean out of frustration. Like I said things are real rocky right now.

How long has he been in for? If he just got put in or has only been there for a short time, then you're probably going to have some rocky going for awhile. I've seen some of your other posts, where he suddenly decided to become Muslim, and maybe he's just going through something, trying to find his niche within the prison system. I've heard that sometimes you have to join one group or another when you first go in and maybe that's what happened with him. I'm so sorry you're having such a hard time, but if he's just settling into that long sentence, then he's having his own hard time psychologically. I think you have to set boundaries on how you'll allow him to treat you so that you don't allow verbal abuse, and then just kind of ride out the storm.

As for your differing spiritual beliefs, I understand your wanting to have your beliefs in common, but it should be possible to allow him his beliefs and not encounter problems if he can respect your right to believe as you choose, too. The less you make that an issue, the greater the chances that he'll maybe someday come around to sharing your beliefs again.

He might be acting mean for the reasons I posted earlier. Maybe he believes that you'll eventually leave him, so he's trying to just force it and be done with it. You can't let him abuse you verbally, but you don't have to let it drive you away, either, if you still love him and you still believe you can live a single (physically) celibate life with him locked up for all those years.

Maybe it would help if I were to ask Fred what he went through when he first went in. His ex-wife divorced him as soon as he went in, but he'll have some valuable insight for us. Will some of you other ladies ask your guys about this, too, so we can post it here to help ByFaith to get through this time? I know Les will have some good input, Flowerchild, if you wouldn't mind asking him. And CLEE, sunrise, and Emilios Heart, will you ask your guys to give us some input? I'll send a letter off to Fred tomorrow, and it takes about 8 days or so to get an answer back, so be patient.

ByFaith, I just went back to your other thread and I really think you should back away from this guy and that relationship. If he's been in prison most of his adult life, then there are so many deeply ingrained problems there that just being patient and understanding isn't going to make a difference. I take back all that well meant advice I gave and I hope you'll just follow your instincts and walk away from him.

Clee good point i no longer write wish you were here.. and i try not to focus on getting out.. which is "torture" because of his sentence.. so i too lik eyou just focus on .. saying things like thanks for pushing me to go to school, i love you, i think about you everyday.. i look at your pic.. letting him know he is with me.. as a matter of fact i received a letter today saying he loved hearing that, and that it helped him.. right now we are being challenged with our visits.. we have been for 5 years non contact.. it just make s me stronger i don't think of it any other way LOVE IS LOVE

AND i got it bad:))))
Donna

Toi amo.. re reading one of your posts. i am seeing a change a very good change.. in his letter s he really is able to express himself.. and i bought him "chicken soup for the prisoners soul" this is a book he would of burned before.. however he just told me .. he is finishing it up.. and liked it or rather he said it was ok.. not bad for a guy who was always feeling or acting out negative.. why am i in it.. because i know he has positive in him.. and i love him. If it was not for him.. i would not be fulfulling some of my most life challanges. thanks
DOnna

Donna-It's funny you said that about what he said in the letter. I got a letter from Lee yesteday and he thanked me, yet again, for being there for him and allowing him to be there for me. Things are quite stressful in my world right now and I find myself looking to him for a shoulder and advise constantly. And it makes him extremely happy whenever he can help me with anything.

Toi-It's pretty strange to me why they won't let someone besides a family member to send money in, but I've heard stranger. And you are correct, after they've spent some time in they really do seem to mature and learn to make the best out of the situation. And for the most part they know why they are there and once they learn to accept it they do live a much happier life. And having WONDERFUL people like us on the outside to keep them up with our day to day lives always is a HUGE support boost for them.

My Jack has a max out date here in MI - of 2035! But he also has a 25 to life from Cali that is running concurrent. We have been together since '93.

Things just recently got easier for me, because I took a bit of Toi_ama's advice. I stopped concentrating on what our life will be like if and when he comes home and started concentrating on making it the best relationship possible TODAY. It has really helped me deal with the stress - and stop crying so damned much!

Holidays are always hard though...

Tracy

I'm really glad you're finding a way to get through this, Tracy. I know it's devastating and even when you shift to a more positive and effective focus, there are still times when you feel like you're just not going to be able to take it. It will gradually get better, though, I promise.

I like this post. I am engaged to marry a Lifer who has done his time already but may not get out of prison any time soon. I am younger than he is and have young children. My children are my worries right now. If my girls were older, this wouldnt be as hard for me. This is hard because my girls have never had a father, and now the only one they do know is incarcerated. They see this prison as his "home". I dont tell them differently because in my opinion they're too young to understand.

I had it set up so that I was the only one visiting...I knew that was shortlived because now I am having to bring my girls every other weekend (or whenever possible). He has formulated his bond with them and vice versa and I am worried that he might be in there another 10 years before they decide to parole him. That would be devastating to my children as they constantly ask, "when can he come home with us"....and "why cant we just stay with him"...I cry at night over this sometimes because I feel helpless..almost like I made a huge mistake! I never dreamed that I would fall in love with someone, let alone a man in prison. Has anyone else felt like this or has dealt with a similar situation? I would love to hear something...ANYTHING that would make me feel better about this. Byron and I talk...but I try to refrain from having this conversation as we had this discussion before and it didnt go too well...

The last thing I want is to be selfish with this relationship. He says that he knew that the girls and I were a package deal and he would feel horrible just visiting with me knowing I have children who are dying to have a father. We had our first disagreement over that....

Any advice? comments?


Yasmeen

Your girls have a male influence through knowing him and that's the important thing. It's not necessary that they have a live-in father figure. They've also got male influence through any uncles and male friends they're in contact with. They can grow up just fine without a man in the house. It's all in your attitude and how you help them to see it. I don't choose to have my girls consider Fred to be more than just our dear friend. The girls are 8 and 10. They're good with that, they enjoy their relationship with him, but I don't put the burden on them of trying to consider him their father or grandfather. These girls are my grandkids but I've had them since birth. My husband died three years ago and he was their little world, but they're growing up more secure, more well-adjusted and more strong in their own identities as little "women" than my own girls did growing up. When I was a young divorced mom I felt like I had to try to give the kids a dad, but it was more my own loneliness making me rationalize their needs out of proportion, as I see it now with hindsight. As a result, what they grew up thinking was that they had to have a man in their lives to be worthwhile, too, because kids learn what they live. I'm very pleased to see how these little girls are growing up to be their own persons, if you know what I mean. Sorry this is so long-winded-----I just want to share my experience with you about this in hopes that it will help you to see it from the positive side.

What I would do is just drop the idea with them that he might come live with you some day. Let them think that he's just a dear friend. Byron needs to respect you on this so that he doesn't push things on them that you feel aren't the best for them. If you don't want them to visit, then he should accept that, too. I'll be visiting Fred in the spring and I'm not taking the girls. He'd love to see them because he really cares about them a lot and I think he'd rather we all came because he says we're all he has now besides his mother, but I'm still not going to take them. I think they need to be older before they deal with this further. Their mother has been in prison and I took them to visit her, of course, but there are just some things we moms (or grandmoms, in my case) know best about and they have to respect that.

I don't have children but I've worked with children of many different ages and children who have parents and loved ones in prison. My best friend and the love of my life is serving a life sentence and he has young children. It is not an easy situation but the positive spin of it is, you have an opportunity to teach those children that love is strong. It sounds like your man loves those kids like he loves you and that love transcends the walls of any prison. Those kids may not have a physical father but they know love. They have a mother and father figure who both love them which is something not every child has.

Thanks Toi...You're right of course. My youngest started asking Byron if it was ok to start calling him dad and he looked at me to see if it was ok and I said yes. It took off from there. She was telling everyone who would listen that her dad and I were getting married..no matter how hard I tried telling her that wasnt so. Her teachers told me she was telling them that, I never knew until then. But when we finally did get engaged, she almost passed out because an engagement to her meant we were married. hahah. But she's only 5...(tired sigh). I just wish things were different. I also wish I had met him at a certain point in my life, other than right now...but thats how life works, I guess. Thanks Toi. I dont see this getting any better and I cant change the "daddy thing" to "just a good friend" now..but I can change how they look at the whole situation.

Thanks for the good words of advice. I like answering posts rather than posting and I find it feels good to get advice about things many of us have in common...

Thanks Julie...they do love him..unconditionally..its a good feeling...but its also scary. I trust him not to hurt them emotionally and so far he hasnt. I need to just keep that trust and be glad I have someone like him in my life. I fear that one day my oldest will come to him for advice that she believes I cant give her...I see it coming...she does it already! she wants to send her own letters...doesnt want me to read it...but I'm like..."uh uh...I have to know whats going out and coming into my house" but then I was thinking..whats wrong with her confiding in someone she loves? someone I love and trust? it offended me at first, now I just trust that byron will do his best to talk to me about any issues that need to be addressed concerning her letters, without breaking her trust/confidence.

My 8 year old still has naive ideas about how romance works, too. I like Nicholas Cage and Trace Adkins in his new video and some others and one day she said in a VERY exasperated way----"Grandma!!! You have SOOOO many boyfriends!" Now it's our funny little thing we do where she'll say "Do you think he's cute, too, Grandma?" so I say "oh wow, yeah, he's cute!" and she adds another one to my list but she laughs about it.

Now that the Daddy bridge has been burned, you'll have to be crossing the further bridges of her telling people where he is and all the disapproval you may get from that. Lucky you, huh? But it has to be done and all you can do is somehow help her to understand that people who don't know any better think that everyone in prison is bad, but that some are trying to make their lives different.

ok....i just found this thread and let me say it is a God send. BUT, I have to disagree with you ladies on something...it's my morals, and not to try to offend anyone or push my morals on anyone....but I tell Ronnie often how badly I want him to be home with me, and he also tells me how badly he wants to be home. We find strength and patience in each other....because our faith in GOD tells us that he does deliver. He breaks bars of iron, chains of steel and gates of brass. Half or more of the Bible was written in prison....I pray daily for God to bring my prince home to me, and I know that He will in His time. I pray for all of your men behind the wall as well. Because I believe, yes, maybe they (including Ronnie) do deserve to serve time, but why should we as family members be stripped of our rights as well? It's not fair if to anyone else....US. Ronnie and I tell each other every chance we get how much we love, miss, and long to be next to each other. Because I know in my heart, God will bring him home SOON!

If that's what you find comfort in, then I think your way is absolutely right for the two of you. I think the input from all of us no matter how we're doing the time is really a wonderful way we support each other. There are as many ways to do time as there are people doing it, I think.

We can have phone calls but they are so expensive I said once a month only. But one "weird" thing we do, and I know you'll think this is weird.... is to have a time like 10pm or 11pm to concentrate on each other. We are both spiritual, have had strange experiences, and sometimes images pop into your mind, that are not "you". We are experimenting right now and then reporting back to each other. He just wrote today and said he doesn't always remember to do it right at 10pm, ( me either) but will be thinking about me at 2am, etc. We try to clear our minds, and focus on the other. He said he wants to make my hand move.
I am able to send occassional money. He's having a portrait drawn of me for Christmas. . He sent me a beautiful card today and long, long letter.

That's a very interesting thing to do! I think I'm going to suggest to Fred that we do the same thing. Have you had anything happen that you can share? I really think it's intriguing.

I got a letter from Fred today and it came at just the right time. I didn't get good news from the doctor today after my MRI last week so I was feeling bummed out, and getting a letter from him really made me feel better. It distracted me from feeling so unhappy.

TOI, AND CET.
I like that idea too.. thinking of each other at the same time.. me and brian have tried that a few times.. but not very consistent.. it is powerful.. thanks for sharing i like that stuff. .and nice idea about portrait.. beautiful you are lucky.. (bet you it will be better than outside)>>

Donna

Hi everyone...I can really relate to this conversation, thought i would take some time to share a bit bout me and my man. We are both very highly spiritual. I have been a student of Divine Metaphysics for some years now. We believe that we were brought together to manifest this knowing for reasons greater that we are able to be conscious of. We were joined in circumstances 3 times in our lives...and we are still together today.
We practice spiritual meditaion and prayer, and we have what we call 'connection meditations' or soul flights. as above, we do this at the same times on the same days. Then we compare the experiences and validate the connection. We are true soul-mates, at first we thought it was cute how we would write the same things on the same days, have the letters cross, and just laugh! We get to a point where its like a joke...we say "Perhaps we should just THINK the letters huh?"
My point i guess is that its that we have faith in the knowing that God has brought us together, again, and again, and finally again. I know hes watching, and i know he has his hand in my mans spiritual growth and lessons. Some days the reality becomes greater than the faith, this makes me sad. But he will be where he is till he is ready, its not our time...its Gods time.
anything beyond explination...is Divine, like what we all are going through.
thank-you for opening the floor for me to share some of this. And I am so happy that there are others to share this circumstance with those that understand...

Dawn

MY OTHER 1/2 HAS A LIFE SENTENCES FIRST PAROLE DATE 2008 HE WENT IN 1995 WAS ARREST IN 1993... WE KNEW EACH OTHER ON THE STREETS AND WHEN HE GOT ARRESTED I WAS GETTING MY DIVORSE. STARTED WRITTING AND IN MARCH 2003 HE ASKED ME TO MARRY HIM THE DAY HE GETS OUT.... I ANSWERED YES!!!!!!!!!! I LOVE THIS MAN WITH ALL MY HEART AND SOUL AND SO DOES MY SON.... HE ALSO WORTE TO MY DAD AND STEP MOM BEFORE HE ASK ME TO ASK THEM IF IT WAS OK... THEY AGREED!!!!! 2008 (OR I HEAR THERE IS A 5 YEAR ROLL BACK WHICH WILL BE 2013 BUT IT) WILL NOT GET HERE SOON ENOUGH, BUT I WILL WAIT BECAUSE I WANT TO... ITS NICE TO HAVE PPL THAT UNDERSTAND WHY WE WAIT AND UNDERSTAND WHAT WE GO THROUGH. THANKS FOR THIS POST..................

I'm glad you're with us here, Dawn and Louise. PTO is so big that it's hard to know who all has relationships with men who have really long or life sentences just from reading posts. I always do "view new posts" on the main page so I follow a whole lot of forums and it's easy to lose track of precise details. I'm glad you two have showed up to join us here.

i go into several other rooms just kept by passing this one but glad i finally stoppep in here to visit...ppl are so nice and sweet and all these rooms really help so much.........

Hey everyone...so its kind of off the topic of what has been discussed in here lately but I just needed somewhere to vent. The love of my life is serving a life sentence. We've known each other for almost 5 years and just recently admitted our feelings for each other. It's so difficult because although I love him with all my heart and believe him to be the one...there are things he can't give me. I am 25 and want children. He has already told me that he doesn't expect me to wait on him and he would never ask me to do that but I love him. How am I suppose to find someone else when my heart is with him? Do I wait on him and give up my dreams of having children and a family? Most days these questions are easily answered because I do love him and I don't want to spend my life with anyone else. But today, I guess Im just lonely and I miss him. Thanks for listening.

Julie

It's a very hard decision for someone so young and who hasn't had kids yet. It would depend, for me, on whether I wanted to specifically have my own children and whether it would have to be children by this particular man. Of course, you know you'd want his children. But if he won't ever get out, then that limits you to:

1. Being involved with kids some other way, like as a foster parent.

2. Adoption

3. Finding someone else to marry and have kids with and remain friends with your current love----that one would be hard, I think.

4. Asking someone who is a close friend to be a sperm donor---some people choose a gay man who is a close friend and also wants kids and could be involved with the child as a father figure.

5. Just plain having an affair and getting pregnant.

I think the bottom line is, how important is having children to you? Is it more important to you than this relationship? That's the bottom line, I think.

I'm sorry you're in this position and I'm glad we're here for you. We may not have all the answers for you, but we know what you're going through and can support you in whatever choices you make as you go along.

Is he in prison here in Oregon? And does he have the potential for a parole some day?

Thanks Toi ama, I appreciate your support and your help. He is serving his sentence in California. To be honest with you I dont know if he has the hope of Parole or not. I doubt that he does. I dont know all the details concerning his sentence or his crime because he wants to tell me in person and not through the mail.

If you give yourself the chance to meet others, it really is possible to love someone else. It's a myth that there's only one really "right" person for us in the world. Just don't close the door on the possibility of meeting and marrying someone else. One of the most wonderful lessons I've learned in my many years is that love is something different than I thought it was when I was young. It's much bigger, more profound and mysterious. You can love very deeply but it isn't diminished by the fact that you don't have sex, kids, and the house in the country with that person. It's only diminished when you believe you have to possess each other to the exclusion of everything and everyone else. You can still love this man while moving on with your life, and if you find someone else you also love and who is free to have children and all the rest with you, then one of the ways you'll know he's THE one will be that he can understand that you have room enough in your heart to love the man in prison as well. But this would of course be possible only when or if you found another man you loved enough that you could put your love for the man in prison in a different category so that the man out here wouldn't be taking second place to the one in prison.

Yeah, I know. I've met others and was even engaged to another man at one point. I believe its possible to love more than one person in different ways. But I do have to say that I've never met another man that I click with like I do with him. Deciding whether to comitt myself to him for the rest of my life is not something I am going to consider until after we meet. It is not something Im rushing into. But right now I love him and every man pales in comparison. His friendship, emotional support, love, etc. make up for any physical lack. Its just sometimes I get lonely.

I appreciate you taking the time to respond to my posts! Thanks.

Julie

I borrowed this from a thread of ladyduke's. I don't think she'll mind that I borrowed it. Her issue was different, but what I said there I feel applies here, too, and would be food for thought for you. I'm not the absolute authority on anything, but I do think we should all be willing to at least consider this aspect of being in love with someone in prison, whether or not we know them before they got locked up.

Here's my own quote from the other thread:

Although there will be some who will disagree with me, a lot of the relationship with an inmate (unless you knew them and were with them out here) is a fantasy. Dreams are poured out on paper and although we feel we know the person, what we know in actuality is the idealistic image of who this person wants to be seen as or who they might be under the best case scenario and liberally sprinkled with who we hope and want to believe they are, rather than who they are when they wake up in the morning and go through the trials of life where the rubber meets the road. The same is true of their image of who we are. Everyone wants to be seen in the best light by the one they care for and being limited to the realm of letters, phone calls and a few visits, it's not possible to truly know this other person.

I want to add that it's not that they or we would intentionally mislead anyone about who we/they are. It's that it's so much easier to speak of things as we wish they were, hope they will be and intend them to be than it is to live up to them in the everyday world.

the Lifers I've become acquainted with seem to have become stronger and better in character after being in for awhile and are the least likely to whine and complain, even if they're wrongly convicted.

I am involved with a lifer -not romantically -- its my dad - soon as i read that statement- i said wow! thats him -- he never does complain about anything ever.. he is going through a divorce with my mom right now and with all thats happen with him over the past years ... i dont know how he does it ... he is a great person- stronger than I ever imagined.. and all you ladies are awesome:)

i dont know how to highlight quotes from someone elses post -

Well, you highlight the words you want by holding your mouse button down and rolling over it., then right click and choose copy, go to your "post reply" button and click that, then put your cursor in the blank, right click and choose paste, then right click again and choose "select all", then go to the top and click on "B" for bold. That will bold all the quote. Then unclick the B and type your own message. Have I confused you yet? LOL

You're right about the LIfers not complaining as much and all. Fred never complains.

How wonderful it is that these guys have someone with whom they CAN be their own idealized selves. Not a bad deal for anyone, really. But incredibly vital in prison.
I'm in awe of you people. If my sweetie had life, methinks I would still be stuck on him, but sitting here trying to imagine it blows my mind. I will pray for all of you that some wierd mass outbreak of sanity occurs and your men's true nature be recognized, and meanwhile I want to try that thinking about each other at the same time deal. Way cool thread Toi.

My man once said "Until one has truly contemplated the meaning of a life sentence, he can never truly appreciate life itself."
It was then i knew that he was truly humbled, and perhaps his position makes it easier to appreciate our life such as it is. he said "I had a choice, to become less of a man or to become a better man." He chose the latter... and thats one of the reasons i love him so...

Dawn

Unfortunately, it takes what it takes, as the saying goes, to get a person's attention about what they're doing that's not working in their lives. Sometimes it takes a life sentence. But the important thing is, they do come about and turn into the better person they can be. In other cases, the person didn't warrant the life sentence if they didn't commit the crime. But whether it was warranted or not, the choice is there whether to let it make or break them, and it seems like Lifers choose not to let it break them.

There have been a lot of programs carried on by Lifers around the country that have helped thousands and thousands of underprivileged kids, the elderly, etc. I don't think the public is aware of these things, but I wish they were.

i have a question...my husband has a 25 to life in california he has a chance for parole i guess sometime i dont know when but he has spent the last 10 to 11 years in the shu will that affect hes chances or will it not matter at all where they do there time.

I have read what's been posted previously and agree that they do become stronger and don't seem to complain. My man's character has really changed for the better. He has also gotten much deeper into his spirituality which is one of the MOST important things to me if he is going to come out and become a part of my children's lives. His religion/spirituality has made him more focused on how to do what he needs to do in order to not only survive out here but also prosper. I knew him before he went in and he always had the potential to do better and prison seems to have grounded him more. I know it sounds crazy! Being in for so long (13 years) has probably saved his life. I would much rather visit him behind bars than to visit a grave site.

Prison saves the lives of many, many people, bottom line. It's a shame it takes so much, but sometimes it does and nothing else seems to do the trick.

hey everyone...i am new to this forum but not new to the site. I am now involved with a lifer and I do find myself questioning it. I mean, please be honest, how do you do it? I write him at least once a day, if not more, and I get a letter from him 4-5 times a week. He is in a different part of the country than I am. I have not even looked at another guy, for some reason I do not want to. i am really glad that this forum is here, and look forward to getting to know you girls better.

I have been in love with my man for 16 years. It can be hard. We write like there is no tomorrow and he calls me so I can hear his voice and THAT makes it bearable. I think about him constantly and imagine him with me everywhere I go. Our love for each other keeps us strong.

I borrowed this from a thread of ladyduke's. I don't think she'll mind that I borrowed it. Her issue was different, but what I said there I feel applies here, too, and would be food for thought for you. I'm not the absolute authority on anything, but I do think we should all be willing to at least consider this aspect of being in love with someone in prison, whether or not we know them before they got locked up.

Here's my own quote from the other thread:

Although there will be some who will disagree with me, a lot of the relationship with an inmate (unless you knew them and were with them out here) is a fantasy. Dreams are poured out on paper and although we feel we know the person, what we know in actuality is the idealistic image of who this person wants to be seen as or who they might be under the best case scenario and liberally sprinkled with who we hope and want to believe they are, rather than who they are when they wake up in the morning and go through the trials of life where the rubber meets the road. The same is true of their image of who we are. Everyone wants to be seen in the best light by the one they care for and being limited to the realm of letters, phone calls and a few visits, it's not possible to truly know this other person.

I want to add that it's not that they or we would intentionally mislead anyone about who we/they are. It's that it's so much easier to speak of things as we wish they were, hope they will be and intend them to be than it is to live up to them in the everyday world.
This really made me think. Althought Michael and I knew each other "before", the current status of our relationship came about "after". We HAVE idealized ourselves, each other, and our relationship; we know we do it, and look at it as a chance to "practice", or learn to live up to those ideals. How often does a person get that sort of chance in "real life"? It's almost as though we exist on two levels; who we are, and who we can be if we really work at it. It does work; I was a painfully shy, totally geekly social cripple growing up & for many years; finally got sick of it, and pretended to be otherwise until I learned how to be the way I wanted to for real; now, no one I meet would ever dream I was that way. Michael has always been a very special person; he knows what his problems and issues are (and I definitely know what mine are!); we're very thankful for the chance to grow together.

Wuzfuzz, you got me thinking about prison and the relationships it creates. I would say they're just different than "outside" relationships, not better or worse. The desperation of prison can (ironically) bring out many wonderful things in people, make them explore and try harder and reach out in ways they would never have thought of before. I know I would never have been friends with my friend if he was not incarcerated -- it's just a fact. The severity of it all made us both reach out and trust each other.

It's true a prison relationship can never be "normal." Prison doesn't allow it. It's a world of extremes. But sometimes extremes,whether war or prison or illness, can bring out the noblest part of a person.

That's one reason that some of us have been able to have very profound relationships with our lifers.

You're SO right about the profound and intense relationships we can have with our lifers. My guy and I were close (more like relatives, though) before, but we've really opened up to each other since he's been inside; seems like all the shyness/embarrassment on both our parts fell away gradually, and we've both really grown; separately as well as together. I'll never stop wishing he could be home, but I'm glad he's alive, healthy, and able to continue to grow as a person.

Normally, unconditional love is so much a parent-child thing, but I think we have something very close; all the superficialities have been discarded along the way. I trust him implicitly, and fully realize that in his situation, it's going to have to be okay with me no matter what (well, within reason, of course) he has to do to maintain his balance and sanity where he is. Since we're both a bit insecure by nature, it's been hard to ditch the petty jealousies that crop up (his female friends from the past, my male co-workers, etc.) in any relationship, and especially long-distance ones.

It IS a world of extremes, and the whole thing is totally unnatural. We've been so fortunate in being able to see the situation clearly and proceed on our journey, and hope and pray that it will make us stronger and better people.

Off to the post office to see if I'll get a letter today......

Welcome Wuzzfuzz and thank you for all your contributions and posts. Happy to hear of your move...I often wondered what it would be like to move state to state. What are you gonna do having all them visits? OUr member "irisheyes" just made a big move to be closer to her lifer, I jsut think its admirable. Happy to have you with us here...

Dawn


You're SO right about the profound and intense relationships we can have with our lifers. My guy and I were close (more like relatives, though) before, but we've really opened up to each other since he's been inside; seems like all the shyness/embarrassment on both our parts fell away gradually, and we've both really grown; separately as well as together. I'll never stop wishing he could be home, but I'm glad he's alive, healthy, and able to continue to grow as a person.

Normally, unconditional love is so much a parent-child thing, but I think we have something very close; all the superficialities have been discarded along the way. I trust him implicitly, and fully realize that in his situation, it's going to have to be okay with me no matter what (well, within reason, of course) he has to do to maintain his balance and sanity where he is. Since we're both a bit insecure by nature, it's been hard to ditch the petty jealousies that crop up (his female friends from the past, my male co-workers, etc.) in any relationship, and especially long-distance ones.

It IS a world of extremes, and the whole thing is totally unnatural. We've been so fortunate in being able to see the situation clearly and proceed on our journey, and hope and pray that it will make us stronger and better people.

Off to the post office to see if I'll get a letter today......

Hi, Dawn! It's great to be here; I admire all you ladies so much, and it's so comforting to have a place to go when things get a little rugged.

I've moved from state to state before, and was in the military for 6 years, so it's nothing new; I'm really excited about going somewhere so different, though; lots of new places to see & explore, and of course (I wouldn't be me otherwise), another wretched old house to fix up.

I don't know about all those visits; I'm going to be pretty spoiled. Phone calls, too; having an actual phone is one of the things we budgeted out, so I could afford to fly to Florida a couple of times a year; now I can get one again. Another cool thing is that the cost of living there is so different from here; I can live on the same amount I spend here for just my mortgage, taxes & insurance, and have something left! I think it's going to be nice to be warm enough most of the time, too (I'm as cold-blooded as a reptile; haven't taken the winter liner out of my jacket yet!).

Time to get ready for work; darn! Hope everyone's week goes well, and that you ALL stay safe & strong!!! Thank you again for everything!!!!!

Gosh, I can't believe this old thread got revived again. I've been reading back through it. I feel the need to update my info here.

I'm not writing to Fred any longer as of the first of the year. It's a long story I won't go into here. I took a break for awhile and now I'm writing to people again, but now I have a burning desire to make a difference for people in the SHU units. I'm writing to one man in Arizona's SMU who has a long sentence and to another one in the Pelican Bay SHU who was put in there when that one opened-------he's been there over 14 years and has a life sentence. Nobody should have to live like they live and I'm starting a project of trying to get pen pals for people in the SHU units to try to help them maintain some hold on sanity. I've begun building a website for that purpose to try to help educate the public about what being in a SHU does to a person, and to also get pen pals for SHU inmates. If anyone can get addresses of people in the SHU needing mail, PM me their addresses, please.

I'm still here with you ladies and still have a heart for Lifers. That will never go away.