If your loved one sat down and told the reall version of what happend that cause his incarceration and vivid details could you accept the truth? I thougth I could but I have nightmares about what really happend and this had caused major problems in our togetherness.

Honestly, for me, it would depend on a lot of things - the details and facts of what he had done, how he has changed over time, remorse, voluntary restitution, etc... I admit that for me, some things are unforgivable, and without any sign(s) of change and remorse, the real story may impact my willingness to hang in there.

Susie-Rae

There are some things that would definitely not be acceptable to me in spite of statements of remorse. The problem is that it's just very difficult to know whether the remorse is sincere or not and you never know whether they're minimizing what they've done unless you get their transcripts or something.

I'm very sorry for your pain, ladyduke. I can tell you're going through a very excruciating time. If what he's done is giving you nightmares, then don't beat yourself up about it anymore and just let him go. That's my honest, well-thought-out advice. If it's that bad, then you have a relationship with someone who is probably disturbed and would need a lot more than just a woman's love and commitment in order to overcome it.

ladyduke,

i have been reading your posts and i can tell you are in deep pain and i am sorry for that. there are some things i could never forgive and i told my man that certain offenses that are totally unacceptable at least to me. i idid a background check on him and there is nothing ther that he has not told me or that i could not handle at all, becuz even though i love him dearly my belief system could not handle certain things. what my man has told me has been exaactly what i have found out for myself. i almost felt like a traitor doing a background check however my safety of myself and family are first and foremost. i think your gut instincts with this matter are correct.

my prayers are with you

carol

ladyduke, I don't know if I can accept what my new penpal friend did. I can't believe what the newspaper said, it is so awful. He hs not told me a thing, but now I cannot go on anymore without him knowing that I know what he did now, and I need to know what happened and why.

My only hope now is what was his reasoning? Was there something else going on that I don't know about? What did this guy do to warrant that? I just can't beleive what he did. It's so awful. I don't want to be with someone like that who could do that to me, I need to watch out for my safety, my life!

Which is really sad, because if it wasn't for that, he seems like he could be a good friend, just that I cant accept what he did. I cannot keep this thing going without a good explanation. I just can't.

ladyduke,
I read your message and thought about what would I want to happen if I was going through what you described. I have worked with people all my life and have met some I dont particularly agree with but I really try to treat them with respect and honesty. I dont try to pretend to understand because I dont! I know all that glitters is not gold! and if it walks,talks and look like a duck most of the time it is a duck! Go with your gut feeling and BE SAFE. I dont know to what extent your relationship is but be honest with yourself and dont sugar coat it! He will respect you for it. and you will feel better. Most importantly-- say what you mean and mean what you say! If you really cant continue then just be as honest as you can and move on with no regrets!!! you dont owe anyone anything except honesty... Hope this helps! Pauline

Wow, how wonderful it was to find this forum. This is something I need. I wanted to say that in the past 5 years of friendship, and last 2 of that a relationship, with my man...i can really relate to 2 issues that are being discussed here. One was when he was found guilty of a violent offense. We had been writing for a year, when he was found guilty, i stopped. It took me almost another year before i could come to terms with the fact of not judging, for he had been judged...and accepting as truth. He had been judged by a jury of his peers, and will be judged again by God, its not for me to judge. now by accepting this does that mean i agree with the behavior? absolutely not. i have an understanding, it helps keep the sting away most days.

When i meet a new 'outside woman' to the system, my first words are..."be wise." know, learn and learn some more. learn truth...untill you know it. So many women get hurt and i have been friends and gone through tis with a couple of women...it aint easy being us. I also accessed arrest records, conviction records, newspaper articles, then finally went to the court building and got a copy of the trial transcripts for myself. We talked alot about it prior to me getting the transcripts, he wanted to prepare me, if you will, to the information i would read. After this great paper chase, i found nothing i didnt already know. He has never sugar coated, or not told me truth. None the less...the ugliness of life is a reality of these loves, accepting that and finding a way to live with it within yourself...is the key.

thanks for this thread...i am feeling that this is one part of the choices i have made, that i need to be able to talk about.

Dawn

Thank you everyone for your responses. It nice to know that someone hears you when you speak. I thought I could except his convicition but it hits too cloes to home. I can't look at persons that did the same thing to one of my loved ones. I thought I could but I can't. I feel bad because he opened up and told me. I'll get it together.

I once loved someone who did horrible things to others - things that no one deserves, and he did it for all the wrong reasons. Once I knew of these things, I couldn't handle it or him and ended our relationship. I still know him and talk to him - it's amazing how these things slip the mind while they are around. It is hard for me to beieve he did these things, but he did and it definately keeps me at a disrtance from him. I realize this may not help you, I think that if what he did bothers you trmendously that it will affect your relationship in all the wrong ways - if you can put it aside and only judge him by how he treats you then it can work. No-l

This is a very good topic for all of us to vent and give a little backgroud as to where we are comming from.

I will not ever say that Frankie did not do what he was charged with(Armed Robbery). I will not ever make excuses for the crimes he committed. He was wrong, it's that simple. He made a bad decision.

I do know all of the details of whaat happened, and it does not change my feelings for him. He told me great length what led up to, what happened during, and what followed the event. It has no affect on me personally, but that does not mean that it does not bother me. My feelings for him did not change because I knew him before and after. I can see the change in him. Granted if he hadn't gotten caught there might not have been a change, but thankfully for him, he did.
That comment sounds terrible, but he was going down a bad road. Something needed to pull him out of it because he was in too deep realize what he was doing.

I am glad every day that he was stopped. Not because he is gone now, but because it was going to get a lot worse before it got any better. I am also glad that I was able to know him before and after. So that I can see the changes in his life, and know what triggers him.

Terri

Can I accept the real story? Yep, and I do indeed know the whole story, not only from my incarcerated beloved but I've read every official court document about the case. But then again, there are special circumstances in this particular story not quite like some of you. I knew him before he committed the crime, he was one of my closest friends. And the singlemost important part of the whole story - if my loved one had not done what he did, he likely would have been the one dead, not the victim.

He committed a very violent act and yeah, he took it too far - however, it was the result of a rage fueled by drugs and alcohol and, more importantly, a frightened youth who had experienced fear at the hands of a sexual predator before this incident, and was once again when he flew into that rage.

Nearly fourteen years later he's cleaned up, sobered up, and much more importantly, grown up. In those fourteen years he's probably thought of a few hundred things he could have done differently to avoid what was the end result. It's been a terrible error in judgment that's cost him fourteen years of his life so far, almost.

So yes, I accept it, and accept him... but then again I pretty much always knew the whole story, at least since we've been in contact again after ten years of not, and knew most of it before and what I didn't know before I knew in my heart I was right about. Although I wish it had never happened, I'm glad he's alive, and he might not have been had it not happened the way it did. And I'd have done the same thing had I been in his shoes - tried to save myself - but I'd have certainly wound up dead trying, likely. So yep, I pretty much have to accept it, and have without another thought, really.

My $0.02, for what it's worth...

lysbeth how did you obtain a copy of the court reports? ive always been curious about those..

Heh... no big words of wisdom or major miracles on that one, sorry C... his stepdad sent copies of all the transcripts to me last winter (which they've had since the beginning)...

hi cember-the transcripts are in the courthouse which is the county seat, I think and you have to buy them so much per page.Some places charge 50cents each but some charge $2.50each. Just another reason why so many of us can't get a transcript!!lol

Ask your self this question, did you love him before you knew?

good question!

We all make mistakes, some not as badly as others. I accept the truth, though it might not be the nicest thing to hear. The fact that Gary admitted what happened and didn't lie to me is what was important to me.

This is an old post but it made me think.

How can we judge the people that we love so much? I would like to think that we could forgive them before anyone else would. I have recently got the details from my man ~ it was a ton to take in all at once but I am glad that he felt comfortable sharing with me. I know that he is remorseful ~ he beats himself up daily, carries along so much emotion baggage, he has many regrets.

To me the past is just that ~ THE PAST!!!

Yes, it is a good topic. I know the basics and I know my guy has been honest with me, I have been trying to decide if I can handle the detials. I know he will tell me if I ask, I know I can find out if I want (without asking him) but I don't know if I WANT to know.
What happened was more than 20 years ago, he was minimally invovled but took the rap for everything, he is not who he was as a young hot headed kid...I try to live in the present, I try not to judge so...do I really need to know? I have to answer that question.
I understand some people DO have to know, but, for me, in many other situations, I deal with what is in front of me and I don't need to dig for details, it's the way I am. We are all so different.
It's good to have this forum.
Caprione

If I would have been more real with myself in the beggining or should I say when it was told to me I wouldn't be struggling the way I am now. Yes I know it's best to leave the past just where it is and I do believe one can change. I don't dislike a person for a mistake they may have made. I'm just really having it hard dealing with what my husband told me and I want to ask more questions. I want to ask his family members becuase I am really confused and with all the confusion it's eating me alive. My husband gets jitter whenver I ask a question and kinda brushes me off. I wish I could just sit back and talk to someone about this but I'm sworn to secrecy so I'm dealing alone. Sorry if this sounds like I'm lost cuz I am (smile)

Just my opinion but....
You can love the man and not the deed
As to how you handle the future only you can answer that
I wish you peace,
Patty

Ladyduke ~ did your man swear you to secrecy? That is soo much to handle without being able to tell anyone about it. I understand where you are coming from now. Does he offer up information or is it like pulling teeth?

Yes he swore me to secrecy. He says no one in the world knows the real story not even his parents. After he told me about this he never offers any more info and if I question him about something I'm not clear on he gets real nervous and angry. He claims he hates speaking about it. There is just so many empty blanks that need to be filled in.

That must be so frustrating to carry that emotional baggage. My thoughts are with you!

:)

I believe your subconscious, your nightmares, your intentions are built in mechinism to protect you - I always listen to my inner voice.

Because I met my boyfriend after his arrest, when he did open up to me about what went on, I was very surprised because I didn't see him as a person who could do those types of things. He wasn't a violent offender but it still did surprise me. As the old adage goes: to err is human, but to forgive is divine.

Transcripts can be very expensive. In my husbands case there are 42 volumes for the trial. Since I've been visiting Ralf I have met a good many violent offenders. I know that for many of them drugs, alcohol, and anger played a major role in their offenses. Some of these men I don't beleive should ever get out, but I have met others who have changed over the years and are better men because of their incarceration. I am married to a convicted violent offender. But in Ralf's case I know he did not do the crime. I was there, I know. But even if I hadn't been there I would judge him by the person I know him to be. Sometimes good people do bad things. I guess you have to decide what kind of person this inmate is and go from there.

I found out what my loved one did through an outside agency. When I first asked him what happened, he denied it and I believed him. But then he had to talk to the detectives and admitted it to them and then he was arrested. During our first allowed visit together (about 2 weeks after he was arrested) he told me the sordid details. When I heard the truth come out of his own mouth I was so angry and wanted to split up with him then. But I didn't because we kept communicating and trying to work things out.

He's now been in prison for over 5 years. And we've been through the mill after what happened. But I believe that we became stronger as a couple by sticking in out and working with each other. He's in a stepdown facility and we do spend a little time together. It's kind of like we're starting to date each other all over again, which is neat in a way. Although there are some residual issues and we can't predict the future, I still believe in him and believe in us as a couple.

So I would say to you to see how it goes and trust your instincts. Hang in there.

When Nick and I got together, I told him it didn't matter to me what he did 8 years ago. But he wanted to tell me what happened so I knew the whole story.

Not only do I accept it, I can relate to it. Nick and I are from the same part of Chicago, and what he did was actually a way of life there. Not too many choices if you know what I mean. I don't condone what he did, but I am not bothered by it and I understand it. That may sound terrible, but maybe I'm immune.

great topic!

Loving a violent offender and pondering this topic has made me think of a couple of things.

1. I am a social worker and had a conversation recently at a dinner party with several other people in the field who I respect a lot. One woman made the comment that it is her belief that every human being is capable of anything, even the most awful thing given the right environment, mental state, circumstances etc. There were mixed opinions within the group and I thought about this a lot, and I agree with it. It is my opinion that within each of us is the capability of right and wrong, good and evil, whatever you want to call it, our carnal selves. Most people do not want to believe that it would ever be possible for them to _______. The point in this is that it is hard to imagine for most of us that we would committ a violent offense, but the reality is that rage, fear, jealousy etc. lies in each of us and it is hard to know what we might be capable of. I know in J's situation, he has been quite shocked by his own reaction and left to ponder..."how? I know I'm not a bad person"...and I know he's not either....

2. As far as the real story....I was quite shocked by some of the stories of violence...the things he told came unsolicited...I remember leaving the doc thinking why did he have to tell me that. In his case he NEEDED to tell me the things that he told me. They are relevent to me helping him work through some things as his partner. They were and still are disturbing to me and hard for me to imagine. All in all I'm glad he feels like he can trust me enough to know that there is nothing he could tell me to change my love for him.

Okay y'all, my first comment is this,.. learn as much as you can, and then learn some more. I knew my husband for 4 years before his incarceration. We were lovers, and an evil man was blackmailing him. David and this man got into a fight, and somehow, he ended up dead, and David made the terrible choice to burn the evidence. Which also burned the house down. He is guilty as they come, but what I've learned is that behind every crime is a "why" David has used every day of his incarceration to make himself into a better man, with God's help. I know things about him, and his crime, that no woman should know about her loved one... but I love him just the same. I've had the nightmares, and even dreamt of the night they fought. I believe the spirit showed me all the pain, and details (that David confirmed later) so that I would have a deeper insight into what he did, why, how he felt, and would be able to be that true soulmate. If you want to know details, criminal records are considered public records, and all you have to do to read the ENTIRE transcript is to go to the courthouse of conviction and read it. They must allow you to read them, and of course, if you want copies, you'll have to pay for them. I spent 7 1/2 hours one day reading David's trial. Be prepared though,.. sometimes loving is painful, uncomfortable, and doesn't always go away quickly.. but knowing is always better than not... good luck to you all,

my husband never hurt anyone that i didnt know ... and whomever he was in a fight with were men of his own size and age. for the crimes he went to rob a bar and this other crime he is doing no one was hurt/touched... his friend that was with him told me also everything and nothing was taken/touched... i knew my husband for so long now and he has not hid anything from me. i accept what he did.

yes. And that is all I'm gonna say.

I know the real reason of him being in and , to be completely honest, if i was in his situation, i would have done the same thing,me and him are 1 of the same. Were ike identical twins in the way we think...yeah he is a violent offnder, but i understand him, so its ok for me, the horrible thing he did.

I totally agree!
I met my husband in there after he had already been down 10 years. While we were penpals, I asked every question under the sun to be sure that he was OK. In all I have learned about him (from both him and his family members) I can have understanding as to WHY he did what he did. What keeps me here is the fact that he HAS accepted total responsibility and is remorseful of what he's done. The fact that he has taken the negative and turned into a positive considering where he's at, is just awesome to me. In knowing and loving an inamte, he has taught me a thing or two about what is truly important in this world. This was a great thread!

Yes I know the truth of what happened. My husband told me and sent me the transcripts. It bothered me for a long time, however, to see that prison has rehabilitated my husband, helps me to hang in there with him.

I knew every detail -- and it's bad -- long before we became friends... it was a real test for me to see if I could truly have a friendship with him after knowing all I did, even though I really liked him.

But I believe in redemption, and feel I have to stick to that faith. It's hard, but yes, here we are.

I know everything about my Man because we were together when he fell. I have the play by play account and I still love him regardless.

I knew about everything the night it happened, and I can even say that I had an idea of what he was going to do when he left that night. I loved him before he did it, I trusted every word of his explaination of the events of the night. I know things about that night that never did come to light (thank goodness). In my opinion, I am just as guilty as he is, because I didn't stop him. In a grander sense, he did it for me and our family. Bottom line, we both made bad decisions, and we are both paying for it.

If anyone in my family became a victim of the type of crime he pled to, I couldn't bear it. I know if it happened at my house with him home, the perpetrator would be dead. I don't really try to reconcile what happened, it just happened.

I really don't have any pearls of wisdom. If you can still look him in the eyes, and still feel the love, then you can live with it. If looking him in the eyes causes you any discomfort - then you can't.

Ask your self this question, did you love him before you knew?

Yes, I have actually been waiting for him to be home so we can discuss it. We have been together almost 7 years (almost 4 years while he was in)He was not a violent offender, so realy I don't know if I should post but I have different worries of what I will hear such as what reason he was really there for, if he lied about why he was there, I already know one devastating fact,we separated for a "VERY" short time I know that the girl he said he was not seeing anymore was there. I read her statement to the DEA saying everything was his fault he knew about everything and she testified to get off scott free(one of the things I do know is he didn't smoke weed ever, that I know for a fact and she said that the pot was his) it was only enough for like 3 j's. He was going for something much worse and if was his he would have said so. Hell he could be out now if he did what she did and ratted all his old buddies out and did the DEA's dirty work for them. He said no b/c he cared to much about our son, me and his parents to do that that if he did they would hurt us and to hurt him. That is there way of payback. Anyway this all happened about 18 months after we gave up our old friends, partying, doing things we shouldn't have to have a child . After he quit it all they got him anyway. I just need to know all the details and want to hear the words out of his mouth.

Anyway I am sorry that you are going through this. I hope you find your answers soon!

My love for my son is unconditional. I'm with Irish Eyes on the "why" part, I think its huge. Although, I'm not sure that this is ever something Ill ever "understand". On some level I exist in a state of denial, 3 years later.

What is equally as hard to understand is that it just doesnt matter what people say, or what happened. It is about the "legal process".

The transcripts arent everthing, just the replay of trial, hearings, status conferences, etc. etc., and not told based upon what actually happened according to the discovery. I sat through every status conference, hearing and minute of trial, and oral arguments on a direct appeal, and read every court document. Exactly what happened doesnt matter (at the trial). Exactly what happened at trial doesnt matter with direct appeals.

I think you have to come to a place where you can accept what happened. It can't be changed. How and why your reason yourself to that place won't matter, just if you can get there.

Actually this is a very good thread. I have been reading the posts in here and I guess I am amazed and somewhat relieved at the same time.
I did not know the entire story as to what exactly happened that landed my now husband in jail. We had been friends for 4 years and also in a support group together. I am as well friends of his family.
Whenever we decided to give this relationship a try, I came in with eyes wide open and expecting nothing more than getting to know him better.
What I learned was he was someone I had waited my whole life for. We both just seem to fit like a glove. We have walked such similiar roads.
During our very first visit he sat there and told me EXACTLY what his real crime was as apposed to what he got charged with. I was shocked..and it showed. I sat there for a very long time and watched him, processing all that he said.
The silence was broken after I would guess 15 minutes and he asked me; " Does this change how you feel now".
Being honest I have to say that while what he told me really shook me up, it changed nothing. It made me feel sorry for the victim and for the circumstances. It also helped me know him just that much better.
Outside of himself, a co-defendant and the victim, no one else ever knew the true nature of his crime. Not even his family.
I know there is no excuse for what he did (drugs, alcohol, age) but I do know sitting across from him that a true remorse was shown.
I love him no matter what, we all make mistakes. While I might have thought different without knowing him, knowing him gives me the insight into the real man.
So I guess after this long post, the answer is "Yes" I can accept the real story.

I met my guy after the crime was commited but 1yr before he went to prison. He was very honest and up front with me about everything. I have even read the transcripts and the newspapers on what happenend. I know that he was in the wrong place with the wrong people and was brought down with them. So, yes i can accept the real story. Just like MrsMalcol, said I really don't have any pearls of wisdom. If you can still look him in the eyes, and still feel the love, then you can live with it. If looking him in the eyes causes you any discomfort - then you can't.

THis is a good post. My fiance and i met as pen pals and he told me everything in about his second or third letter and told me to feel free to look up everything in the newspaper archives and on the web. I got a copy of his transcripts from him and I encourage anyone who meets as pen pals to research and check out everything for their own peace of mind. It was nice to find out he was honest about everything.

His mom gave me the transcripts and victim photos. He shot a guy four times in the head less then 10 ft away. He doesn't know I have seen any of it, and well he doesn't like to talk about what happened. I love Johnny with all my heart, and even though it hasn't changed how i feel about him or my opinion of him, but the photos haunt me and i live maybe 10 minutes away from the crime scene and even though i wasnt there and was only friends with him at the time, I cant drive by there without feeling anxiety and sadness. His family thinks he's innocent because there was another guy who was also charged with the murder, but he wont talk about it with anyone and he doesn't believe in snitching. I have alot of questions about what happened, but am able to wait for him to open up but he doesnt even talk about it with his family. But he's not only my boyfriend but my bestfriend now, so whatever his story is I could never turn my back on him and I know I will always love him.

I don't know what I would do. I love my man very much, and I got freaked out reading what happened when I looked it up in the newspaper, but I want to know what really happened, from his perspective, I think I deserve to know. I am never going to push him for that though, I just figure when he's ready to tell me he will.

Yes I can accept the real story. He doesn't mind answering any question I may have about his case. I don't think I could have gotten involved with him if I couldn't accept it.

I finally had to break down and ask last night. I didn't really want to know. It took almost a half hour to actually let him tell me. He is down for second degree murder. And I needed to know. I think the truth was a little sugar coated but, it was a mistake none the less. I know that the last 18 years incarcerated has changed him.

Although the crime he went in for this time wasn't a big deal, my husband came clean on a lot of his wrong-doings when we first got together. He wanted to be upfront with me about his past. I accept everything about him, don't like it but I know there is redemption and forgiveness and he needs me to believe him and love him for who is today, not what he did in a past life.

I think personally that sometimes in life we all make descions that we may regret some bigger then others but still a wrongful desicon....I have knowen for awhile what happened and why my man is doing more time then first expected...but I looked past that and I know that may be hard for some to grasp but I did...I seen a person that was longing for something that not many others have given him...a unconditional love and I pray for the family that lost there son every night and I know they may hate my husband for what he "did" but when he wins his appeal I hope that they can forgive him in the least....he will never bring there son back and he can't changed what happened but he is doing time for someone else and the courts have seen that so I hope that the family of the young man who's life was took can realize that too....

I knew Ray before his crime, and actually, reading Lysbeth's post on pg 1 of this thread, Ray's situation is similar though not the same. Ray never denied what he did, he has given me a lot of unsolicited information over this past year and I've had gaps filled by his family (and these people dont talk to each other so no one is covering anyone's backs). When he moved from county to prison, he sent me his statement (made 6 hours after the crime and still high on solvents) and the autopsy report. The statement upsets me to read, because I know its not the whole of what happened, but the autopsy report was nothing unexpected. Since I've had those, he has opened up a little more about the actual chain of events and I am confident that I know all of what happened that day now.

If I didnt know his history, the act would make no sense. This is why I dont expect anyone else to understand how Ray came to do what he did. But I do know it, and while I think he did the wrong thing, made the wrong choices (if indeed they were choices, I'm not entirely convinced that they were), I have faith that the circumstances wont be repeated and that he truely does want to get better and make something good come from something so bad.

This forum is wonderful! Thank YOU to all who is holding it together!

As to the question this forum is based on -- my answer is yes. I have accepted the real story.

I won't give specifics.

But the fine art of becoming older and being handed the s*itty end of the stick from time to time has made helped me realize that circumstances of one's life while growing up can create a spiral of violence, hatred, rage...

Does it justify a crime? No. Just helps for understanding and knowing very well that I may have done the same thing if I had been in his shoes.

In my opinion, it is your right and task to ask him what he did, to tell you the truth.
People change and you shouldn't live in the past, but the past is a part of him, made him the man he is today, for the better or worse. Not only is HIS past affecting his, but also YOUR life. His burden is on your shoulders as well.
I believe to fully love and accept a man, you need to know and accept (not tolerate) him with his past.

Keep your head up,

Julie

I was wondering this very thing. If or how one can accept the 'real story'? Or do you just 'think' you know the 'real story'?

If he is in prison, he committed an illegal crime. Your not doing him any favors by trying to make him feel good about what he did. Make him face up to it, and make him want to change his behavior. If he doesn't want to change, then you have to decide if that is the kind of person that you want to spend your time on.

In my opinion, the first thing you need to do is 'face the facts', and not always try to 'sugar-coat' what he did.

meaning:
'he made an error in judgement'
'he made a bad choice'
'he made a mistake'------this one is used WAY to easily.
'he had some wrong-doings'
'he was in the wrong place at the wrong time'
'he was with the wrong people'
'he didn't do it, but he's taking the blame'
'he made a bad decision'
'he's innocent'
'he had a bad lawyer'
'he was framed'
'he was on drugs'
'he was drunk'
'he was just young'
'he had a bad childhood'
'his dad beat him'
'his dad deserted him when he was young'
'his mom abused him'

If he is in prison for murder for example, who are you doing a favor for by saying something like: 'Somehow the other guy ended up dead?' Well, of course if he and another guy were the only ones there and the other guy 'ended up dead' then the STRONG PROBABILITY is that your guy murdered him. No if's, and's, or butt's will be a good enough 'excuse'. Face it, admit it, and move on!

I have another thought that bothers me. I realize that many of you started out as penpals. I would like for someone to explain to me so that I can understand how you can KNOW a guy is in prison for LIFE or is even sentenced to DEATH, and marry him 'without even knowing why he's there'??? I've read that some of you married your inmate and didn't want to know what he did. Marriage really has alot more to it than just writing letters, writing poems, receiving phone calls, and 'glorifying the fact that your there for him no matter what he did'. What if you were writing him, and telling him secrets, and your innermost thoughts and becoming close to him, then 5 years later you 'happen' to find out that he was there because he raped, sodomized, and cut up little girls and boys----toddlers, defenseless little babies. Wouldn't you want to know???

Please do not fool yourselves into thinking 'it doesn't matter'. It very well may at some point in your life. I sometimes wonder if the women that become involved with death row inmates, or lifers are only doing it because it's safe. They NEVER have to worry about what he may do to them in the 'real world'. I know that many of you talk 'big' and say things like 'He knows better than to hurt me', or 'He's a big teddy-bear', but many of you have only known him in a controlled environment---behind bars.

Be careful----Learn the truth. Accept nothing less.

And for the person that wrote their nice little quote:
"The Past is just that~~! THE PAST."
(keep in mind that many times the victims of their crime is dead.....and their families have to live with it long into the future, they can't just leave the past in the past)

Very well said. Many will not agree with you who are currently in a relationship with a violent offender. And many will. Thank you for your post.

I let my ex go after 6 months on the streets and three years in prison and he has at least 9 to go. We have not been together for a while. I thought I was done with this prison gig (as I tried to call it) but I just had to be on PTO one day and a member posted a person that needed a pen pal and just wanted to correspond. I did not know when I wrote that he was in prison for a violent crime until recently. I really do not have a comment just yet, but I will Be careful----Learn the truth. Accept nothing less.

Nikmom: I agree with some points you made -- truth should never be as you said "sugarcoated." Nor should we, as the ones involved with the prisoner, ever try to ... how did you put it? ... "make him feel good about what he did." Of course, I am not in my guy's head and cannot give a personal testimony, but I know enough to say with confidence, he has never felt good about what he did. He's felt many emotions over the crime he committed -- regret, sorrow, self-hatred -- "good" was definitely not one of them, nor has he put the blame on anyone else. He accepts the full blame.

I have never tried to dictate what he should feel. He is his own person, thank you very much, and if his own personal makeup was such that he did blame an abusive father, or anything other than himself, I would not be with him. We would not have become friends; and would not have become involved with one another.

Life doesn't end at the death of a crime victim. does that sound callous, indifferent, spouting off favorite phrases that's abused frequently? At first glance it probably does.

Let me venture further with a line or two of personal history. I know, firsthand, what it is like to lose a family member to a cold, calculated, premeditated 1st-degree murder. I also know what it is like to see it on a f**kin' website for the county and state as just another statistic for unsolved crimes. With each passing year, the list gets longer and his name becomes part of a yearly sequence listing of unsolved.

I know, I mean I'm talkin' first hand acquaintance with, the rage at the law officials when told, "we're sorry, but we don't have enough evidence to ... blahblahblahbutwecanscratchourassesblahblahblahbla h..."

I know, now, eleven years later, that my late husband got the easy part... dying. Our children, I, and his brothers and sisters, have the hard part of living.

I've read testimonials from crime survivors who were able to forgive those directly involved with a loved one's death. It's not to be gracious or "to walk closer to the Lord"; it's a step, a necessary step, to heal... to close a door that needs to be closed... and to live -- not just be stuck in limbo of constantly reliving, always existing rage.

Family members of other crime victims who have seen the perpatrator in trial, witnessed a conviction and/or confession, and know where he/she is imprisoned... I envy them. I have no clue to whatever closure, if any, they're experiencing as the man who killed my late husband is out there... somewhere... no face... no name... just another smart, vicious, sociopath who is quite good at what he does. And who is probably stalking other targets as we speak.

Some scary-a$$ shi*, huh? Unfortunately, it's true.

My man, and soon to be my second hubby... never lied to me. He told me what he was guilty of; and as I ain't stupid, I did some researching on my own to discover that what he had told me was true.

I know that he is not the man he was 23 years ago. Nor am I the same angry widow I was 11 years ago.

I hope with time, and listening or taking to heart some of the posts you read from other people, you will not be the same-applying-a-label-to-all-prisoners, and to all the people who are involved with them, person that you seem to be now.

I agree that those who do not want to know the full story do need to know. But they will be the ones to decide to take that step.

I do hope that no matter how old the good Lord wills me to be, that I never stop growing spiritually. I hope the same for you, too.

nikmom ~ if all murders or killings were the same, there wouldnt be 2 different charges in the UK and (at last count) 5 different ones in the US. There are similarities with many, but each case is unique just as each person is individual. Its not always a case of 'sugar-coating' to use the terms you list, a lot of the time, those are material facts - not excuses, just facts. Put the facts together to form the whole picture. And although everyone would like to think the justice system works and the bad guys get punnished and the good walk free, we'd be very naive indeed to believe it always happens that way. When a country lets defendents accept a sentence without a trial (as in Ray's case), the facts are not always examined in a way that allows the 'interested parties' to understand what really happened.

Ray had his own reasons for not going to trial, mainly because he knew he had hurt his family so badly already by what he did, he didnt want to put them through having to listen to more hurtful stuff on top of it, same with friends of his dad. Like I said before, I am confident I know all there is to know about what Ray did, the sequence of events, and I know enough about the things that led to it to be sure that he poses no danger to me when he comes home - even if he came home tomorrow.
Please dont lose sight of the fact that we are all individuals.

I do know the full story. I lived with my guy when it happened, so I went thru the trial, read the transcripts, seen the crime scene photos, and I've listened to my husband regret over his crime many, many times.
Yes I felt sick over what he did, I even left for two years when he went to prison.....I thought it was what I should do, Not what I wanted to do. Thru all of this horribel ordeal I never lost sight of who I knew my man to be...what he did was horrible but it didn't define him as a person...he was a good man who made an aweful, terrible mistake.

penwife

Yes, I can and did accept the real story. My husband shared it with me while we were prison dating. I also saw newspaper clippings of it. I also talked with his parents who were aware of it and had knowledge of it.

Although it was a violent offense that is not who my husband is. He is a human being who made wrong choices based on his young age and lack of direction.

He is paying a high price for his crime, but he is doing his time. He takes full responsibility for his actions and is truely remorseful for what happened.

There are, in fact, people in prison for the wrong reasons, and I happen to be in love with one of them. No sugarcoating about it.

nikmom,
i totally agree with almost everything you are saying. when i first met my hubby, i read through his charges until they were ingrained in my brain. and they were all acceptable to me...things i could live with a person doing. no way i'm exposing myself, my children, and my extended family to someone I don't know the way i SHOULD know him. then because i OFFICIALLY got with him while he was incarcerated, i went to everyone i knew that knew him (which was alot of people, he was my sister's neighbor for about 5 years, and even she was like, "he always said hi to me and picked up the baby when he saw her."), and got the scoop: "what's he like? who does he be with? how does he dress? is he violent? abusive? a drug user?" i was serious about spending my life with him, and i wanted to know the truth. and i was relieved and excited when not ONE person EVER said anything negative about his personality, attitude, lifestyle, besides the fact that he was very much about helping out his family and friends, regardless of what happened to him, and the fact that he had been in and out of prison so much that everyone was starting to lose faith in him being able to ever come home permanently. i accepted all of that...and i don't have to change who i am to do it. and it's a blessing i don't have to.

again, i am able to accept what my hubby did in his past, because it did not involve murder of ANY kind or any degree (taking another life is something i can't get past, regardless of the why's and how's it happened), rape, incest, abuse, domestic violence, drug sales (he got caught with marajuana during one of his arrests, and was sentenced to less than 3 months in jail for it...so i know he wasn't dealing it, he was using it himself), or anything that landed someone in the ER on death's door. there are limits to what i will take and what i will not take in a relationship. hubby asked me, "if i were given 20 years to life for a crime, would you still love me the same?" and i didn't hesitate to reply, "if you did a crime that warranted that much time, then i wouldn't have even gotten with you TO love or not to love you." and he kind of guffawed, something between a laugh and shock. but when i went to say, "whatever you did to that person to put yourself in that situation, you'd probably do it to me too. and i have loved ones to take care of." and he respected that. it may have shocked him, but i need to let him know that i'm not so crazy in love with him that i'd accept WHATEVER he did, because i wouldn't. that's just ME. not everyone is like me...and that's a good thing. i always say my hubby IS a teddy bear that's in prison. and i stand by my statement without hesitation. why? not because he "wouldn't dare hurt me", but because his only violent offenses in which others got hurt were the ones in which he was either fighting for his family, or fighting for his safety. every other crime involved not a single person getting hurt. and that's ok with me. you have to make sure that you TRULY accept what's going on in the relationship you're in...

btw...the only thing i didn't agree with was the statement, "if he is in prison, he committed a crime." not everyone who is in prison is guilty of the crime they are accused of. if you are talking about those who KNOW that their loved ones committed the crime, then i apologize...

Please keep in mind that this thread was written in the "Loving a Violent Offender" forum. There are members here who are supporting their loved ones who have committed violent offenses.
Let's be sensitive to their situation and not debate whether or not you would support your loved one "IF" he had committed a violent offense.

Thank you,

penwife

hello penwife,

because of my post, i may have been one of the ones believed to be speaking in terms of "if he had commited a violent offense". to clarify where i came from concerning my post, my hubby is not only labeled a violent offender, he is also labeled an arsonist and a felon.

if my post raised no concerns, then i do apologize.

hello penwife,

because of my post, i may have been one of the ones believed to be speaking in terms of "if he had commited a violent offense". to clarify where i came from concerning my post, my hubby is not only labeled a violent offender, he is also labeled an arsonist and a felon.

if my post raised no concerns, then i do apologize.

OK, then by all means, post about whether or not you can accept the real story about the charges that he was convicted of...not the charges he wasn't!
BTW....I wasn't pointing any fingers!!!

yes i can accept what my honey did and he dont make excuses about how it happened. i know him before the crime and now know him after. yes i did do a search on the net for news articles, read them and know that there is some truth and some fiction in the news articles. JMHO sorry if there are some that dont agree with others but i kno wthat ill stand my mine no matter what.

I can live with it, and I've never really heard it from Brian's mouth. This is a small town and I've heard what has happened from the news and in the newspaper. It's pretty cut and dry, no if's and's or but's about it. I don't like it one bit. The bad thing is that yes, it's a violent offense, aggravated murder. Brian is not someone I'll ever be with on the outside, not because of what he did, just because we are not in a relationship. We are great friends and we love each other. But we also know we can't have a romantic relationship. He's doing 15 to life and we both know that if he does life, it's not fair to have me wait on him and that's his words, not mine. We don't know when he'll ever get out. He was 17 when this happened, he's 19 now. I'm also about 14 years older than him, so we both knew that we weren't looking for a romance, just someone to keep him up while he's incarcerated, and for him to have someone that he knows loves him no matter what. I can't really get into some specifics about how we met, although I will tell you, I never worked for the prison system or anything like that.

But yes, I can accept the real story and I hope that others can do the same with their loved ones, the ones that are in relationships and are married, it's a the most important thing that you can handle the real story.

Taylor :)

Yes , i can accept the "real" story, newspapers i beieve are out to sale! not tell the whole truth! He was honest with me, i never asked what he had done i knew when he was ready he would tell me. He did tell me one night (i worked at the jail he was housed at) asked me if i wanted to know, of course i did, (i already knew how i felt about him and what he had to tell me would not make a difference!) he told me EVERYTHING from the begining to end, after that i did research and read all the newpaper articles and of course they only told half of everything that had really happened. I had already fell in love with my hubby to be before i knew what he had done. And this did not change a thing, I had already seen the real Rob, not what the news had said about him, My Rob was sweet kind, loving, caring, and wonderful man, and i had seen his heart and soul, and knew my place was and always would be right beside him, through whatever may come supporting him 100%, I love him with all my heart, reguardless of what he did. i have never been afraid of him and never will be, in fact i have never felt safer. he loves OUR boys, and they talk nonstop about him,, My rob this ,My Rob that, We will not be complete until he comes home to us! We miss and love him soo much!

EVERYONE HAS A RIGHT TO FEEL WHAT THEY WILL WHEN IT COMES TO THIS SITUATION, I FOR ONE NOT ONLY LOVED AND KNEW MY VIOLENT OFFENDER BEFORE HIS INCARCERATION,BUT I AM FORTUNATE ENOUGH TO HAVE A CHILD WITH HIM AND I AM FULLY AWARE OF WHAT HE DID. wHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU KILL SOMEONE IN SELF DEFENSE? i SAW THE TRANSCRIPTS, HE WAS REPEATEDLY BEATEN AND ROBBED BY A 6'4 MAN. HE'S LUCKY TO HIT 5'7. DO I CONDONE WHAT HE DID. NO BUT I KNOW THAT HE HAS REGRETS AND CANNOT JUDGE HIM"JUDGE NOT LEST YE BE JUDGED" NIKMOM. THAT'S A GOOD QUOTE FOR YOU TO PASS ON. HE WILL HAVE HIS TIME WITH GOD, HIS TIME WITH ME WILL BE SPENT GROWING TOGETHER AND LOVING EACHOTHER. AND THAT'S MY CHOICE.......:thumbsup: ALL YOU LADIES WHO ARE DOING WHAT YOU DO FOR YOUR MAN IF YOU FEEL THAT YOU CAN HOLD HIM DOWN WHILE THE WORLD BEATS HIM UP AGAINST A WALL, YOU DO IT WITH YOUR HEAD UP!!

I Knew Josh Before The Crime... And He Did Tell Me All The Horrid Details... Plus... I Looked It Up On The Net.. BOught His Entire Criminal Record.. And He Had Been Truthful.. He DID not Muder Anyone, But He Did Assault Them, And Some Other Pretty Bad Stuff... Do I Think It Is A Pretty Story? H%% No, But I Love Him, And If God Can Forgive Him, Then So Can I....

Same here. Yes, I read it in the newspaper and yes, they are out to sell, but I had first hand knowledge of the transcripts and there is on discrepancy over one comment that my guy made and that's it. Other than that, the story is pretty straight forward. He did commit agg. murder and I can forgive him for that and he can learn to deal with what's he did and try to work on his issues. I'll be there every step of the way with him on his journey also.

:cuffs: Penwife, thank you for your comment on 9/29/05, I think all of us who love a violent offender understand they did something terrible. They have already been judged and punished. And the punishment goes on and on. I agree we do not need to debate whether they deserve to be loved or trusted, we do not know the details of their crimes or the motives behind them, and for this forum we do not need to. I would not expect anyone who knew my brother's story to understand what he did. But, I don't need for them to. The bottom line is I FORGAVE HIM, I LOVE HIM, AND TO AN EXTENT I EVEN UNDERSTAND WHAT HE DID!!!! Do I need to justify how I feel to anyone? HECK NO!!!!!:no:

:cuffs: Penwife, thank you for your comment on 9/29/05, I think all of us who love a violent offender understand they did something terrible. They have already been judged and punished. And the punishment goes on and on. I agree we do not need to debate whether they deserve to be loved or trusted, we do not know the details of their crimes or the motives behind them, and for this forum we do not need to. I would not expect anyone who knew my brother's story to understand what he did. But, I don't need for them to. The bottom line is I FORGAVE HIM, I LOVE HIM, AND TO AN EXTENT I EVEN UNDERSTAND WHAT HE DID!!!! Do I need to justify how I feel to anyone? HECK NO!!!!!:no:

you are very welcome Atalie.

Although it would hurt to hear the details.. which i have been wondering about for 9 years now.. i would like to hear them.. i DONT know how i would feel about it or if i could actually accept what he would tell me .. BUT i do accept him and that is what matters i think.

I can accept wht my husband did.. even though there wasnt any violence he is considered a violent offender.. for he had a weapon

well personally i dont think there is anything that can make me not love my man my love for my man is and will be for life if i got anything to say about it :)

I can so relate to your pain and your confusion. For me, I'm a mother. I can't understand what my son did, I can't explain away what my son did, I think that he should be kept from harming other people so I have resigned myself to the fact that he has to be in prison for the rest of his life regardless of what an awful and dangerous place prison is. But...I still love him, I still want for him to learn and grow and try to be the best person that he can be where he is. I try to encourage him to draw and read and write and pursue endeavors where he can still have a positve impact on the world. There are times when I think that I can't handle the situation, or I wonder if I'm really making a difference in my son's life. There are times that I think the price of trying to support him and remain in his life is too high. But I can't give up. He's my baby. I love him, and I can't give up on him. I wish you all the best in your situations....its nice just to know that you're not alone.

Even though my hubby is currently in for a so called Probation Violation, :angry: his original crime was Manslaughter in 1989. He has told me the whole story and even answered truthfully all questions I had about it. He gave me all of the details that I asked for also. His family has also made sure that I knew what happened, to make sure he wasn't duping me. I did not know him before the offense. I met him after he had just about 10 years in, and finished out the last 8 months of his bid with him. He told me within the first few weeks of writing, because he said he wanted me to know his whole life story and decide based on ALL of it whether I wanted to be with him. I do not condone what he did, and I am not happy that his life ended up with that happening. But I decided that part of his life would not be the most important factor in whether we would be together. I tried to see the whole picture. I tried to judge him based on how he treated me and my family. He has been great to me and my family. And even though he has done a terrible thing in his life, he has paid retribution for it. He lost out on a good part of his life for a stupid mistake and he did his time. I have faith that he has learned his lessons from that. And even though he will always be considered a Violent Offender, he is MY VO. My soulmate. :heart:

Kate

Yes... I heard the whole story as soon as we had a chance to talk, I asked "The Question", he said "yes", with this look on his face, like he was afriad I might just stand up and leave the visiting room (he should know me better) and all I could say was "Oh,Baby, did it really have to come to that? There was really no other way to handle it?" and he laid it all out for me... I HATE that it came down to someone being dead, and I hate that my baby has to live with that, but after hearing him out....well, I'd have made a lot of different choices along the whole (3 year) chain of events that eventually led to the prison gates, but I understand why he did what he did...I don't approve, but I can accept.

If you cant accept what a person has done in their past then you can't be with them. Everyone has a past and it is a part of each and everyone of us. At least he was honest enough to tell you the truth. You were more comfortable with your rose colored glasses on, huh? I think it is important to know what the person you are with is capable of doing and has done. Of course right now, while he is locked up he is different. He is not in a position of power, you are, so he will say what he has to in order to have you by his side. Keep this in mind, peoples true colors come out when they are in a position of power.

Yes I can accept it but I did feel conflicted at first. I even had a nightmare early on that I was his victim! But once he started writing I realised he was just another human and it was a once off. (I dont think I would have writen him if 'serial' anything was on his legal docs). He said from the begining I could ask him anything but I didnt. A few months into our pen pal relationship I disclosed something to him that was painful to me and he began opening up to me. He has nightmares and crys over what he did but he says it is less with time. There were things that didnt come out in the trial which made me feel less worried about what he did. I like the person he is now but I accept that he did on one really bad day screw up his life and destroy the life of someone else and their family. Taking that one day away- he is very sweet.

PLEASE read up on PSTD I have.... it is what I am going thru now.....WB if you need a friend, I'll need them soon! :( KIM

I have heard all the information on his crime and even though I dont like what he has done I do accpet he did do it. I did know my partner before the crime and was there for his sentencing. I know and understand why this happened. Somtimes its hard to believe he did do it.
As someone said before I dont approve of it!!

I have heard all the details. I have all the original court documents plus the times that we have talked about it. It was not easy in the beginning, but I love him no matter what.

When we were in court and they were reading what happened, I honestly could not beleive it. I was like that is not true. It was like they were making him out to be a monster. I was like is it true, this is the same man that I lay beside everynight. I could not believe it but I accepted it because I love him for who he is.

Yes I can. I still do not Know all the details. BUT they don't matter. He is not that man anymore. He is not the man that he was 9 months ago. Look at this way-Can he handle all the details of your past? The past is just that the past. We all go through different things-do wrongs-make mistakes. We have to go through what was our past to become the people we are today. It is not my place to judge the man he is now on the doings of the man he was in the past. I know he killed a man. the details are just part of that fact.

Ive heard all and i have the paperwork with me, i knew what happened cause he told me and what he said was the truth, he was an accessory to the crime.

my husband has been in prison for the last 26 years for murder 2degree with his hands guess it can not get much more volient then that i know everything i was at ever hearing with the public defender when he talked with my husband i have every paper on the case
and yes 26 years latter i am still with him still standing by his side and loving him more each day
the day he got arrested and sent to county i was the person he called and he told me the whole story and we have talked about it but i knew from the day he was arrested the facts have never changed with my husband like he says its the truth and i believe him

When i started writing to mike about 10 years ago... i asked him point blank. Why are you in prison? I want your version of what happened and not just your families(we were introduced via snail mail by my friend his sister in law). He wrote me back and told me about the whole incident. Occasionally we still discuss it... if it comes up or something is said. I dont agree with what he did and he feels extreme remose for what he did and if you asked me today would he ever do something like that i would tell you NO WAY!!!! However 20 years ago he was a very angry drug using alcoholic. As Lysbeth said in her response there were many things that led up to this....he is very honest about what happened and i have read everything. he sends me stuff about his case all the time for an original file that i keep at home for his attorney. He admitted his guilt in what he has done. He is sorry and I accept him for who he is today, not who he was. It is something that those of us in this situation have to learn to deal with. you dont have to change your opinions or your ideas to fall in love with someone, especially if it is quite obvious they have made improvements in their lives since that time. I agree you must be wise with your decision to have a relationship with an inmate... but there is good and bad in all of us.....the same could be true of someone you meet on the outside as well....Caution is always good. Let yourself have some time to digest your info befroe you make a decision and let him know you know and see what he says... He might suprise you.
take care
happy day
msmomto4

Before I started writing I did a google search and checked his DOC info and all that. I am a nonjudgemental person so I figured there were reasons for what happened. Since we have been writing he has told me, explained things. Yes I can deal with it. He is not the same man he was when the crimes were committed. I trust him completely that he has been straight with me.

If your loved one sat down and told the reall version of what happend that cause his incarceration and vivid details could you accept the truth? I thougth I could but I have nightmares about what really happend and this had caused major problems in our togetherness.
I love my man unconditionally. So yes, I would accept the truth. I would also feel honoured that he felt comfortable enough with me to tell me the truth anyway.
It's all good! :thumbsup:

I can completely accept Don's truth, because it was there from the very beginning. Like others, I have all of the court records from all sides of the case. It was devastating to read how they made him out to be so violent, when you read other parts, nothing violent happened. All that aside, he's my husband, and I've known him for years before this. I know who he is, and there's alot to love!

I accept him for who he is no matter what he's in there for! I know the truth, he's never lied to me. I've known my man since he was 15 and i'm quite a bit older than him. He has a heart of gold with me and I love him for him unconditionally. I may not agree with his choices, but that doesn't mean I'm going anywhere. I'll still be here when he gets home in 4 years. It's destiny for us and he's my destiny

I accept him for who he is no matter what he's in there for! I know the truth, he's never lied to me. I've known my man since he was 15 and i'm quite a bit older than him. He has a heart of gold with me and I love him for him unconditionally. I may not agree with his choices, but that doesn't mean I'm going anywhere. I'll still be here when he gets home in 4 years. It's destiny for us and he's my destiny

I am glad that you and him have that relationship cause that is very important especially in maintaining arelationship. It always good to have someone who loves you unconditionally stand by your side .

Saturday on a visit, he told me the details of his crime. He asked me if I was ready and I said yes but when he told me the details my heart and gut fell on the floor. Talk about the cold hard truth, wow! Untill he explained the situation and what happened I wasnt sure if I could deal with his crime. Can I deal with it yes, only because I know what happened that night. If he didnt explain I am not so sure. But besides all that, him dropping that bomb on me. He also dropped another one by asking me to marry him!!. I said "ok" lmao!!!

congrats on the proposal!!!!!!


Ann

I met my VO on a pen pal sight and for the first several months all I knew was it was hijacking gone bad,guess I was to use my imagination on that one. Then out of curiousity one day I looked him up on DOC and read his sentence was life for murder in the first degree.I was kind of in shock at first so I just printed it out and wrote wtf on it. He wrote me back this long letter explaining his buddies told him if he told me the truth he would never hear from me again although as we grew closer he wanted to tell me he felt he betray me and told me if I never wanted to hear from him again he understood and he could send me every letter I had written him if I wanted him to. He said he felt releived when I was going thru some stuff here at home and stopped writing him for awhile he thought I had left him like everyone else in his life..a very hard letter to read. Truth is I had already fallen for him and over these last couple years I have learned that Ilove him for who "HE" is now and that he isnt the 15 year old who committed the horrible crime he committed. I have met his family since then and know every detail . I cant even see him doing what he did..he is now 28 by the way! Would I trust him here with me and my kids yes,do I feel what he did is wrong yes,am aia scared of him no! I love this man and plan to marry him even though he may never be free and my kids love him for the happiness he has given me . These VO's are not their crimes they are humans who feel just like we all do . They love they hurt they laugh they cry all the same.There are circumstances with every case put yourselves in their shoes and think about what you would have done. Understand what they have been through before their crimes and dont judge them becuz Only God can judge them . Forever loving my VO!!

I met my VO on a pen pal sight and for the first several months all I knew was it was hijacking gone bad,guess I was to use my imagination on that one. Then out of curiousity one day I looked him up on DOC and read his sentence was life for murder in the first degree.I was kind of in shock at first so I just printed it out and wrote wtf on it. He wrote me back this long letter explaining his buddies told him if he told me the truth he would never hear from me again although as we grew closer he wanted to tell me he felt he betray me and told me if I never wanted to hear from him again he understood and he could send me every letter I had written him if I wanted him to. He said he felt releived when I was going thru some stuff here at home and stopped writing him for awhile he thought I had left him like everyone else in his life..a very hard letter to read. Truth is I had already fallen for him and over these last couple years I have learned that Ilove him for who "HE" is now and that he isnt the 15 year old who committed the horrible crime he committed. I have met his family since then and know every detail . I cant even see him doing what he did..he is now 28 by the way! Would I trust him here with me and my kids yes,do I feel what he did is wrong yes,am aia scared of him no! I love this man and plan to marry him even though he may never be free and my kids love him for the happiness he has given me . These VO's are not their crimes they are humans who feel just like we all do . They love they hurt they laugh they cry all the same.There are circumstances with every case put yourselves in their shoes and think about what you would have done. Understand what they have been through before their crimes and dont judge them becuz Only God can judge them . Forever loving my VO!!

Its so good that he has someone like you to love ,accept and support him. Cause someone else would have just judged him and made him feel like crap. He is very lucky to have you love in his life and for giving him a second chance

I have to re-write my post....as much as I thought I knew the truth, I have been proven otherwise...

Of the information I had, I could accept the realities of his crime...but, new information has finally surfaced, and, I'll tell ya what...it's been very hard to accept.

I can only commit to time, hoping that over time, I can find a way to deal with these new truths.

I have to re-write my post....as much as I thought I knew the truth, I have been proven otherwise...

Of the information I had, I could accept the realities of his crime...but, new information has finally surfaced, and, I'll tell ya what...it's been very hard to accept.

I can only commit to time, hoping that over time, I can find a way to deal with these new truths.

Im sorry but yet glad that you are finding out things that you thought your knew but didnt know. if you need to talk you know we are here for ya

Well my fiance doesnt really have to go into detail about what happened that day. I was there. We have talked about why it got to the point of what he did, and it doesnt really scare me, it makes me more confused and sad for him. He was only 15 years old when he committed his crime and he is so confused as to why he did it.

Well my fiance doesnt really have to go into detail about what happened that day. I was there. We have talked about why it got to the point of what he did, and it doesnt really scare me, it makes me more confused and sad for him. He was only 15 years old when he committed his crime and he is so confused as to why he did it.
Since you were there, im sure that helps him in alot of ways cause it shows that you havent given up on him and that you truly love him. When he is confused about what is going on just let him know if he needs to just let it all out and talk too you about it . He knws you wont judge him so that is a good thing

Thats how I feel. With the "anniversary" of his crime coming up in March I am worried he will push a way a bit when the day comes, but I guess I have to let him know I am not going anywhere.

Thats how I feel. With the "anniversary" of his crime coming up in March I am worried he will push a way a bit when the day comes, but I guess I have to let him know I am not going anywhere.
Sometimes , that is all you can do, If you see him trying to push you away , see if you can get him to talk about it .. Dont let him repress his feelings.. It always helps them to talk

Sometimes the self-judgement is worse for these guys. On the outside we make mistakes on a daily basis,but we deal with them and move on. On the inside they have a daily reminder of what they did and deal with it constantly over and over again.Its very hard to deal with the anniversary of something that changed not only their life,but those of who they love and the victim(s) and their loved ones.Its a hard and heavy burden they carry.

Sometimes the self-judgement is worse for these guys. On the outside we make mistakes on a daily basis,but we deal with them and move on. On the inside they have a daily reminder of what they did and deal with it constantly over and over again.Its very hard to deal with the anniversary of something that changed not only their life,but those of who they love and the victim(s) and their loved ones.Its a hard and heavy burden they carry.

Very well put Chickletone. So very true.

Sometimes the self-judgement is worse for these guys. On the outside we make mistakes on a daily basis,but we deal with them and move on. On the inside they have a daily reminder of what they did and deal with it constantly over and over again.Its very hard to deal with the anniversary of something that changed not only their life,but those of who they love and the victim(s) and their loved ones.Its a hard and heavy burden they carry.


As it is hard not to agree with something like this that is well said!!! My cousin says that all the time when his mom used to making these comments to him about move on, he keeps stressing ,look i cant im in prison i have to deal with it everyday there is no way to move on until i am out.

I am glad that my man has always told me in detail what he has done before prison and since he has been in. All I know is there is nothing he has ever done or ever could do that would make me love him less. I do think women should find out what there mates did from the inmate himself. The Doc spins alot of things. For example with my man, the media makes him look just evil. He had a penpal/vistor before we got together and in court she said he seduced her and lots more. Now the part where she told him she would do anything for him was never mentioned. So, with that said I must add, I will always love my VO

At first I had accepted his version of why he is in prison, although it has been confirmed by his family and others. However, lately other info has been surfacing and I'm like kind of confused as to why he would not tell me, I mean he told me everything so why hide the little things that seem important.

Laflor,

If I were in this situation i would just come straight out and ask him! I bet the answer is a lot less disturbing than that you are making up in your mind!!!

Well Pen I guess he doesn't want me to know that's why he didn't want me to talk to his uncle who is a CASAT director and who can get into more of his records. His uncle has spoken to me in confidence becusae its evident that he is trying to help him when he sees the board soon, I mean so what's the problem. Nevertheless I'm waiting for him to call me sometime this week and I am going to ask him, I mean he has told me everything else why not bother telling the other BS.

Well, I sat through his trial, read everything I could and I think I understand what happened. To be honest it doesn't bother me too much. I think if I would know about things he has done inside it might bother me more.

I'm glad he has told me. I had assumed everyone knew but I'm finding out that he hid a lot of the information from his family. I'm pleased he trusted me with it. I can accept it but only because I believe he has grown up, matured and changed. If I thought he was still like that I would be out of here.

I completely understand where you are coming from, except i was on the other side of the fence. I didn't think i could handle hearing the truth...but i did, it was horrifying, yes, but i knew it was a one time thing, and hopefully wont happen again!

I already knew the whole story when he went in. It's all sad and tragic. But at first he wasn't really willing to completely face it. Over the past years in there he has come round full circle, though, and living with himself is going to be the hardest part. He's really feeling a lot of remorse and sadness for the pain he's caused and the lives he's devastated. But when they are in prison people don't believe them or think they are just saying that to look good. But I've known this man for over 20 years, and he has no agenda. He's really feeling it.

I read about it online and it doesn't even sound like the person I have grown to love. He wasn't happy when I told him I'd read it, and I only hope he will forgive me. He doesn't drink or use anymore, and God has healed him of the abuse he suffered in his childhood. He also confided that he was raped and assaulted in another prison some years before. It's a shame that any of it occurred, but I may not have met him under other circumstances.

I read about it online and it doesn't even sound like the person I have grown to love. He wasn't happy when I told him I'd read it, and I only hope he will forgive me. He doesn't drink or use anymore, and God has healed him of the abuse he suffered in his childhood. He also confided that he was raped and assaulted in another prison some years before. It's a shame that any of it occurred, but I may not have met him under other circumstances.

That is true and he shouldnt be upset that you read it cause being in any kind of relationship you both need to know what is has happened in each other lives in past and present. Especially when dealing with an incarceration that is only fair too you or whomever is on the outside.

She told me the whole story, but I also read all the court transcripts. Everything she told me was true, but it is hard to read the court record, it's so matter of fact. Just to know that she was involved in the world she was, was so hard to imagine. But just like I told her after I read the transcripts, I know who she is today, and it's clearly not the person she was before, and I also know the person she will be one day, and I love the person she is today. I accept her for everything that she is / was / will be. We can't change the past, but the future is a whole different ball game.

caress11, how did you read about it online? I would of liked to have read about my man, if it was availible!

caress11, how did you read about it online? I would of liked to have read about my man, if it was availible!
If i am not mistaken she read it on www.fastcase.com .. it offers a free 24 hr trial ..

i would rather have the whole true story no matter how bad it is.

I met my baby through a pen pal web site. After the 3rd month of consistently writing I got a letter telling me that a big manilla envelope was on the way soon. At first I was nervous but when I got it I read it page by page...it was the police report and court papers of his crime and trial. The next day I got a letter explaining everything in his own words and at the end he said I will wait to hear from you...if a letter does not come that means you cannot handle it. It took me less then 5 seconds to sit down and type him out the longest letter telling him that though he did what he did, it was before me and that is not the man he had/has shown me since we started writing. I told him that he didn't have to share that with me but by him doing so shows me that he is a man who faces his wrong, and a man who owns up to his responsibility. 2 months later we "officially got together," 5 months after that he asked me to marry him and 2 years after that we are waiting on our date to get married. He has 5-10 left to do but I am doing it all with him one day at a time. It scared me at first BUT knowing who he is today helps because I didn't know him when he was in a gang 7 years ago.

My cousin is a violent offender I know the details of two of his cases, it scares me to think there are people that are capable of that kind of violance he didn't just attempt murder he tortured his victims no one else in his family is that way I don't know there has to be some type of mental disorder...

When I found out about what happened, I couldnt think, I was mad and scared! I couldnt bring myself to read the newpaper artical, or listen to what anyone had to say. It hurt my heart. I asked myself, why would he do this?!? But then I listened to a C.D. from a pastor, about recovering from your storms, and God's heart for you. I decided to truly and honeslty forgive him. Otherwise this would be really hard. I didnt know the victom, but he is in my prayers, and I will continue to pray that he can find forgivness in his heart, for my husband. Sice all this has happened my husband has founf God while he has been in jail, He just keeps moving forward in his faith. It is terrible that this has happened, But I think he wouldnt have changed his heart so soon in his life otherwise. Our relationship is stronger than ever! The victom was taken to the hospital but he fled because he was also in trouble with the law. The victom was in the mexican mafia, so They wanted revenge on my husband, and they where out to find his wife and kid. I have moved to my mothers house. And I really beleive in the protection of God! I am not worried! Really it's all about Forgivness!

TRULY knowing my loved one...it's still hard to even begin to conceive he's even capable of such a crime...much less actually having committed it. We're a MWI couple. When we first started writting....I never asked anything of his crime. I wanted to get to know him as a person. I felt that if & when he was ready to share that...then he would...& he did. I have ALL the paperwork...from the newspaper articles, arrest records, court proceedings....everything. If he hadn't of told me himself....you couldn't have convinced me of such. We ALL make mistakes. It's not my place to judge. That just goes to show you...a split second decision can change your life (& that of others) & it's final. I am a forgiving person (being a victim myself). How can I expect to be forgiven...if I can't forgive of others?

Since I have been in contact with Luis' little brother during the 2 years Luis and I had no contact, I knew vague details about what was going on. When we started writing, I didn't ask. It was my opinion that if he was really changing who he was, he would take the initiative to fill me in the details. Not to mention, that even with all we went through, I know he is a good person who just made some really bad decisions. On my first visit he told me a few details, then the second visit he really opened up. He told me the circumstances involved, the emotions he went through, etc... Drugs, alcohol and a bad childhood he's never been sober enough to deal with contributed to acts I don't think he would've commited otherwise. It doesn't make me care about him any less. Everyone makes mistakes, I'm not perfect either.

my love one was labeled a violent offender after a weed charge-- so no.. i dnt consider him violent nor am i scared of him

Yes, my man has sat down with me & we had a long talk. It took a few sit downs with him for him to finally reveal the whole story to me & the things that led up to it. I was not in his life at the time of the offense, we had lost touch with each other for a couple years & it was during that period that his life got way out of hand.

It had a lot to do with the fact that he was already a convicted felon who could not find/keep a good job which left him frustrated & angry, it also has to do with the woman he was living with & a couple of her male friends. My man explained it all to me in a really unbiased way. He never said that he was not at fault, he never tried to blame anyone or anything else for the incident.

We have talked many times about this situation & he feels very remorseful & regrets what he has done.
He is missing out on 10 years of his life because of it. Some of it I will never understand...I guess he was desperate. But I do have a lot of compassion & understanding as to how it all came about. I don't condone his behavior not at all. I have seen what it has done to him, how it has broken his heart & how he feels that he never could be forgiven for what he's done. He never fired his weapon,no one was injured (nor would they have been because he wouldn't hurt anyone). The sad thing was it was an inside job (a set up) one of the perpetrators worked for the organization & left the safe unlocked. My man was talked into the whole thing. My man got 10 years for it. He's learned & I've learned.
Do I love him any less because of it? No, I love him even more for being completely honest with me. There were many things that he did not have to share with me but he chose to tell me all of it. I have great respect for that. It's the only way to a new changed life is to admit your wrongs & truly feel that you did wrong so you never do that again. He has done so.

I felt like I needed to know after quite sometime..

He mailed me His transcript's and a part my my heart broke in reading them..

But then I remembered that everything He did...was when He was 16 and that in the 8 years since He has become a very different person..

The person I love is NOT the person who did those things..
and I guess thats how I learned to accept and make peace with what He did..

My boyfriend is a violent offender... i can & do accept the truth of his crime. If i couldn't accept it i wouldn't be with him, period. I don't condon violence in any way & my heart goes out to any & all victims... but that doesn't change the fact that i'm in love with him. I know he's not a bad person, i know that he does have a good heart. He's my best friend as well as my boyfriend & i've never for a second been afraid of him. I feel safer with him than anyone.

I met mine when I was 15, Im now 31, his trouble was with the bimbo he was with at the time, his friends, and his dope habit. All of his came down to dope and he accepts full responsibility for his actions, although all reports indicate he is covering for someone else and took full responsibility, which is kinda stupid on his part. I dont fear him, to me he is the same country boy that played football and was a big cut up...

oh I also read his case file and got to see the report, he shot a guy...i say self defense at best, if he actually didnt do it, he may have been an accessory...it was all so confusing even for a former cop like me, too many holes in the story, no weapon found, no corroboration, other evidence found at the scene, others hanging around talking trash that cant be backed up...dirty cops and detectives....too many red flags to mention, when he talks about it he cries and has to stop...I dunno if it is pure remorse, if he is covering for someone and it is eating away at him....

I know the details both from his own description and his case file. It's part of who he is today, it has made him the person he is today. And I accept and love the person he is today with everything that goes with him. His crime included.

Doesn't mean that I don't feel for the victim. One doesn't exclude the other although many people seem to think so.

I do know the details... not just his version either...We are from the same neighborhood and the newsreporters of the neighborhood (those that sit and tell their versions of everyone's life) were too willing to give me the details of the incident that led him to this bid.

Blacklove

This is a wonderful thread and I enjoyed reading everyone's responses.


I know the story that got him locked up again. When I asked him, he told me what happened. He was honest and I respect that. Before asking him, I tried looking it up myself. A week before I received his letter where he told me what happened, I tried one more time and finally found an article. It matched what he said, only his story explained a lot more, what he was thinking, what led up to it, and what occured afterwards. I still have many questions, but for now, I respect and appreciate his honesty. There's one detail he left out, and I'll mention it to him, but I won't hold it against him. I've considered calling the courts to read his case file, as others have done. I didn't even know you could do that.


I feel for the victim, and I wonder if J is remorseful for what he's done. My impression is that he didn't intend to go as far as he did. I keep in mind that he retaliated against the victim because this person had done something to the family previously. It doesn't excuse or justify J's actions, but it makes me understand that he didn't just harm someone just for the sake of it.

I agree with the person several pages back who said that anyone is capable of anything. We don't know what we'd do in his/her given situation. I also understand how intense anger can lead to violence because I've been there and have wanted to act out on my anger, but didn't. I hope I can give J that understanding. I don't condone or agree with what he's done, but I have to say that reading this thread helped me to accept what he's done. I still care about him, I just don't agree how he handled his anger. I'm going to finally write him back about his situation.


Thank you, everyone, for sharing.

I know the details both from his own description and his case file. It's part of who he is today, it has made him the person he is today. And I accept and love the person he is today with everything that goes with him. His crime included.

Doesn't mean that I don't feel for the victim. One doesn't exclude the other although many people seem to think so.


I agree with what all has said especially the statement above in bold. Its the way society has become, where its wrong to feel bad for someone who does wrong. I always say ppl talk about how the victim feels , and its not fair to the victim, and they are right to do so, but the person who committed the crime is still in fact human and they still have a right to have someone support them .

Doesn't mean that I don't feel for the victim. One doesn't exclude the other although many people seem to think so.


I agree that we can love our inmates with our whole heart and still feel for the victims too. Our love, pride and respect for our VO's does not diminish our sorrow and regret of their crime, and the pain it inflicted on the victims.

Hello everyone, I am new to this site(my first day) but I do have input on this subject. My man was convicted of first degree murder but after an appeal his charge was dropped to Manslaughter (thank God). I was nervous at first to find out the details of the story but after I did everything made sense and I love him even more for his decision.

Another way to get court documents and or witness statements is through the lawyer, Your inmate just has to ask his legal rep to give you a copy. I read every documented thing from my husbands crimes to his arrest. It can be very hard to read though, I heard a witness statment in court and I felt my body go numb, my husband never pysically hurt anyone but scared them enough to make me sick. I'd advise to use caution. Somethings can get a bit to real if you let them.

I just want to say I am so happy there is a place for us to express our feelings, have questions answered, etc. It is nice to know there are others going through the same happiness or turmoil as you are.

I am currently going through this situation and am trying to process everything. I knew my loved one since I was 10 years old and love him to this day. He went in at the young age of 20 and has lived his life over, literally, in prison. He is now 40. When he first went in, he denied that he was guilty and we had contact for a few years, then we lost contact. After 15 years, we have recently found each other and found we still have a great heart connection. He has been giving me the real story in pieces, he doesn't want to overwelm me with all of it. It has been hard to accept, but I still love him and know he is not the same person today that he was 20 years ago. It has made me take a step back and re-think what I believe in. No matter what he tells me, I'm sure I will be disappointed, but will love him whole heartedly.

I do know the details. But I love my son unconditionally.

Dawn, Mom of Thomas

Mine is charged and guilty of first degree murder with a deadly weapon. I was in a relationship with mine before he went in, that was 1992. We have finally reconnected again after several years of no contact. I have asked him about what happened and his words back to me was that it is his nightmare to live not mine. I do know some of what happened from people close to him, but they tell me that I don't need to know. I am in the process of finding out and I know whatever happened I will stand behind just like I have been all these years. He was 19 when he went in and he is a completely different person now.