I'm just trying to help the PTO family stay on top of current issues

jerry


Your Neighbor Is Watching
Peter Y. Sussman, AlterNet
July 18, 2002

Operation Snitch is coming next month to a neighborhood near you.


The government doesn't call it that, of course. The administration's program has been christened, more benignly, Operation TIPS -- the Terrorism Information and Prevention System. But the national snooping network, despite reassuring noises from the Justice Department and the Homeland Security chief, will be anything but benign.


The government says it will recruit millions of informers to serve as "extra eyes and ears for law enforcement" at the local level, reporting what the citizen-snoops consider "suspicious and potentially terrorist-related activity." That's potentially terrorist-related -- like a bumper sticker in Arabic on a neighbor's car, perhaps?


Over the past year, administration officials have assured us that the suspension of civil rights they initiated in the panic following the Sept. 11 attacks was not intended for law-abiding folks like you and me -- only for those malignant characters, mostly foreign, suspected of "terrorism." But that begs the crucial question: Suspected by whom? Now we have an answer: your neighborhood informer -- a bus driver, say, or the meter reader.


In the pilot stage of this "national reporting system," scheduled for launch in August, there will be 1 million workers. A more ambitious "national rollout" will follow, adding more millions of informers. Who will be chosen as citizen-snoops? The administration says "truck drivers, bus drivers, train conductors, mail carriers, utility readers, ship captains, and port personnel are ideally suited to help in the anti-terrorism effort because their routines allow them to recognize unusual events." The words "unusual" and "suspicious" are used synonymously and are key to understanding why the program can only become what Homeland Security chief Tom Ridge denies it will be -- a network of citizens spying on each other.


Back in the 1960s, I and scores of others received threatening letters from a paramilitary organization called the Minutemen of California, a group of self-styled "patriots" who practiced with weapons in the Sierra for the day when they would be called upon to save America from a Communist takeover. Their unsigned "Dear Comrade" letters said in part: "It has come to our attention that in the past you have made unpatriotic statements. You have also participated in certain activities which are deemed detrimental to the preservation of our Republic."


An investigation of the mailed threats focused on a mail carrier, who chose to resign rather than face a Post Office hearing for misusing his official position. That man had delivered my mail one day a week, as a substitute carrier. He knew who was sending me mail. He must have thought he knew suspicious activity when he saw it, and to him that apparently included mail sent by organizations he personally deemed subversive, including Jewish newspapers.


Now, 36 years later, the man checking up on me will not be a self-appointed watchdog for an ultra-right-wing paramilitary group. His snooping will be sanctioned by the U.S. Department of Justice. In recent decades, we have all read about similar government-organized networks of citizen-snoops. They are common tools of secret police in nations usually characterized as "totalitarian" -- places like the Soviet-era East Germany. And we certainly have shameful examples in our own history of mass suspicion run amok.


Even in the past year, thousands of our neighbors have been rounded up and held incommunicado, without access to the constitutionally guaranteed protections of the American judicial system. Others, who were not arrested, were nevertheless shunned, vilified -- even shot at -- by their neighbors because of their ancestry, religion or skin color; because they wore head wrappings, or because they were otherwise suspiciously "different" from their neighbors.


No one can know yet how the new national network of citizen-snoops will work. (Wednesday, the Postal Service announced it would not take part in Operation TIPS.) But based on past experience, I think I can guess the color, religion and nationality of most of the people whose activities our fellow citizens will find "suspicious" or "unusual."


Survival tips for August: Be nice to the meter reader, the mail carrier and the bus driver. Beware of associating with people who look different or corresponding with organizations with foreign names. And, above all, don't look suspicious.


Peter Y. Sussman is a San Francisco Bay Area writer and editor and the co-author with Dannie M. Martin of "Committing Journalism" (W.W. Norton).

And do you know what is ironic? When this all started the Govt (and ours, we might as well be a state of the U.S.A. ,we're the only allies that are going into Iraq) was quick to point out that this was not a war on Muslims. Blaming every Muslim or Arab for the events of Sept11 is like blaming all of the U.S. for Timothy Mcvie. It's insane. There are so many people of Muslim faith that are patriotic Americans and Australians. I know that after Sept 11 so many Muslims over here were harrassed and threatened. That sort of behavior made me ashamed to be an Australian.

I totally agree! There are many things that have happened since Tim McVeigh and that increased sinced 9/11 that have made me ashamed to be an American. Read some of my posts in the Immigration forum and you see many examples of what I mean. I totally understand the need for security but it is gonna have adverse effects, I see it happening sooner than later.

Cobwebqueen & bella.....

both of you have good posts....there are some bright people in this community.

I am curious as to how you would react to another web site.
At www.bizzybody.freehomepage.com (may take a minute or two to download) on the bottom of homepage is an exit icon.
There is a green light going around a circle. It is a hotlink and should direct you to the site.

Let me know, ok?
Thanks......jerry

Juan (My Husband) who is from Cuba told me alot about Cuba. When he was deported once before, he was taken to prison for a while then released. He was taken to a house in his neighborhood and was given instructions about who he could and could not talk to about the US. He said there is one family in every neighborhood that keeps an eye on everything and reports to the Governement. Whatever this person says.. goes.

Better hope OUR neighbor, postman, metterman likes us.

Joy

I too was married to a Cuban.....but you can expect that in a communist country. I'm surprised they don't tell you when and what to eat.

This is the land of the free....sounds good anyway

take care ....jerry

Listen up folks! I am an ex navy man, and proud of it. I have been in 22 different countries,and let me tell you, good ole USA is the best.The govt can watch me if he wants to,I am not doing anything illegal,and if it helps prevent innocent men, women and children from dying because of a terrorist then I think that is great.If you dont like it here in these united states,LEAVE!Steve

Steve, with all due respect you miss the point. Most of the people who are being victimized are proud Americans. And it's only with discussion that situations can change. Everyone has (or should have) the right to free speech in the U.S.A and that is what makes it great. Taking the Government to task over some of its decisions doesn't make one any less patriotic. Think how many people protested over Vietnam, were they not patriots? Blind faithis not what we should aspire to. I love the U.S.A. as much as you, but take away peoples right to object to certain decisions and it's not a democracy anymore,its a dictatorship.

I did not miss the point. The price of freedom can be very high,we are so far from a dictatorship! In todays world we may have to give up some of what we think of as rights to have freedom.We have it made here.Some countries I have been to have cameras on every corner,cops carry machine guns instead of a hand gun.This is a new era, and I support my government!Steve&kids

cobweb, bella, joy.....
i hope that you continue thinking with an open mind...
22 years of anything would have a certain amount of
mind programming (brain washing)....
no matter who has the most, biggest guns...the media determines who fired the first shot

hang in their ladies--your voices are very important.

jerry

tek4real,

Yes it is very scary, but you know it is going to happen and the reason I know this is because of what the Bible says. If you look at everything that has happened to our country since 9-11 it will scare your pants off!

Steve, I understand why you think the way you do. Yes we do live in the best place in the world. But we cannot give our government this much power. Do you really think that innocent people are not going to be hurt by this? If you do then you believe that our Justice System is fair and only sends the quilty to prison. Think about how much power the DOC has right now. Now, triple that power and place it on regular honest human beings. Scarrrrrrry!!

I say we go after Scot Presbyterians. That McVeigh guy musta had friends in a network. We can't be too careful. Our freedom depends upon being watchful!

You all realize of course that I am not serious.

Menolly

Ha Ha Menolly,

Yes I was hoping you were joking.

I'm not doing anything either but I sure don't want the cable guy or post man checking on me.

I am not willing to give up any of my rights that are granted to me by the "BILL OF RIGHTS"
Once you give it up you don't get them back.

By the way this is not new policy. I drive for UPS and we have been asked to "spy" for the Drug and Narcotics Agency for the last 10 years.

I'm also offended that I have to give a dam pee test to keep my job. LOL

I was just going to let this go, as I'm not one to usually talk politics, or religion, as these can create bitterness, & rarely change anyones mind.

I served 10 years in the Marine Corps, and took an oath to defend the constitution, & this country, from all enemies foreign & domestic. I fought for the right of people to protest the actions of the government. Acording to our founding fathers it's not only a right, but an obligation of every citizen to protest the actions of the government that they disagree with.It is every citizens duty to keep the government in check. Thomas Jefferson even went so far as to say that every person should have the right to keep & bear arms so as to over throw any government that becomes a tyranny.

When we had discrimination, people protested, & things changed, when we were being deceived by our government about a war we were in, people protested, & things were changed, when people wanted alcohol banned, they protested, when prohabition was proven wrong it was changed. When our government employees supported the contras in nicaragua, I was happy Col North did what he did, but it was wrong. So just because I like what the government does doesn't make it right. The government is quite capable of making mistakes, Ruby Ridge, Waco Tx, holding an american citizen in a military prison without charges or even contact with a lawyer is trully scarry. I love what Rumsfeld is doing at DOD for the most part, replacing many of those perfumed princes with shinny brass with soldiers. we don't need managers we need leaders, But ashcroft is scarry, in his "support me or your unpatriotic" attitude. That smacks of McCarthyism.

I fought for people to be free to believe as they wish, & to bitch when they want to. That is what makes this country great. Sending out postal workers to look for terrorist seems rediculouse to me. I'll bet 95% of what they report end up being bogus reports, & the other 5% are people they are reporting for things unrelated to terrorism, like suspected drug dealing, truancy, gang activity, prostitution, etc. Also how many resources are we going to spend on tracking down all these leads instead of out on the street actually doing something productive. It reminds me of things we use to say in intelligence; More intelligence doesn't mean good or better inteligence. The East Germans had the most prolific domestic spy system in the world even surpassing the the Russians. They got so much info from people ratting on their neighbors that they couldn't physically analyze 90% of it.

Steve has his right to say "America Love It Or Leave It", as others have the right to say they disagree. Reminds me of the saying from Thomas Paine I believe, which says "I may disagree with what you say but I will defend to the death your right to say it." Or Ben Franklin when he said "Those that choose to give up freedoms for security deserve neither."
My attitude is "America Love It Or Fix It". I love to see protest over abortion, or the death penalty, or the legalization of pot, because these protest are conformations to me that this country is healthy, & alive, & that the constitution is a living document. We are by far the best country on this planet, but that doesn't mean there is no room for improvement.

Just my two cents. ------------------Ken

AMEN KEN!! You said that very eloquently.

My biggest problem is that those who love America and would fight for the security of this nation are being made to leave. I was born in this country and have a hard time loving it like I used to. My guy came her as an infant. to this day he would run to the front of the firing line to fight for this country. His love for this country goes deep. He is a true American, more American than me. And so what does the government care, there making him leave because he didn't take some test that he could pass with his eyes closed.
I also agree that if we become people who don't protest, or speak our minds we are deturinng away from the true sence of democracy! Please lets not forget why so many people feel this is the best nation in the world!

torrey

you are so right....once they take a right, you never get it back
and i think the phone companies also were asked years ago to spy for drug activity
how much does the DEA pay for that service....
I just wish that we would have had passionate politicians and that they would have spent all that money on drug prevention and treatment
I wrote a thesis on the drug war and used a picture of an ad for cocaine toothpaste....
What a waste.........

take care ....jerry

Michelle,

I agree with you sentiments. My brother in-law is from Jordan, & he became an american citizen & he loves this country. He is an America love it or leave it person.

"To secure these [inalienable] rights [to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness], governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed... Whenever any form of government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles, and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness."

i love where i live, and wouldn't want to live anywhere else. HOWEVER, that doesn't mean i have to agree with everything that happens here. i don't love that there are men and women on death rows across this country, i don't love that this horrid practice is utilized here, i don't love the fact that a lot of people are living at or below the poverty line and families are homeless while others think nothing of paying $250,000 for a home, i don't love the fact that we have people in this country that continue cycles of racial hated and treat homosexuals like crap, i don't love the fact that people refuse to spay or neuter their pets and shelters kill thousands of innocent animals every week....i could go on and on here. however, i DO love the fact that i am free to express my opinions, that i can wear what i want and don't have to cover myself in a piece of fabric, that i have the right to work...i could go on and on. like anything, nothing is black and white. the world is full of shades of grey. i am not happy with everything that goes on in this country, but i wouldn't want to be anywhere else. and, thank god, i have the right to be here and not HAVE to agree with everything our government, corporations, and citizens chose to do.

I'm getting permanent bruises on my butt, from being knocked over on my *** every time you post your opinions!

I might have to sue you!

You know I am kidding of course...

*************************************************

When this thread started I just wanted to throw my hands up and say "Oh here those Yankees go again. I'm so glad I am Canadian."

Then along you come, Ken, with another of your "long posts" valued at two cents!

You'd make a durned fine CANADIAN, my friend!

Love,
Menolly

P.S: Just how big is your keyring anyway, Ken??????........

Ken ,you sound cool.My sister in laws brother died in 911.I have met his kids.If this operation whatever Tek talks about was around back then, maybe his kids would still have a dad around.Maybe not.Steve&kids

God Bless the USAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!......Lee Greenwood.
Come on you spy devils; I worked with you in prison and I will live by you everyday. Let us all hold hands and sing the "Star Spangled Banner", say the "Pledge allegiance to our flags", and reopen school prayer for all that pray to whomever they pray. All the essentials that " Our founding fathers" established are almost gone. These fundamentals are what we need; this will restore peace and security.
Read Revelations: it talks about the man proclaiming peace, but doing the opposite...."Mark of the Beast". When the Kuwaitees cried for help, the USA jumped to their aid and I applaud our Blessed soldiers for their Bravery and commitment, but it stirred up all the people of the sand. The 911 attack, in my opinon, was a retaliation of "Operation Desert Storm". Bush was Governor of Texas; now he is the President. Texas has the longest list of prisoners whom have died by execution. Bush loves calling it "for the sake of others", but he is keeping his light shining by yelling "Remember 911". Noone can forget the horrible act, but noone wants thought-police except Steve.
Please vote Bush out of office for he will only continue destroying this country. When Kuwait was liberated did gas prices get cheaper for all the liberating countries; not at all. The price of gas got higher until threats of using the Alaska reserve and converting to battery powered cars were made. We saved Kuwait and protected Saudi Arabia at the price of our twin towers and all those Blessed people; American citizens.
I want no more horrific acts occuring like 911, but "undercover agents for the FBI " is not the solution for the problem. Give God back, salute your Flag, remember the Flags reason, and teach love in the schools for all American citizens, "red, yellow, black, and white; they are all precious in His sight". This will destroy the enemy and restore safety in Our Country.
Our nation has come to a point of tunnel vision where they say, "It's not my buisness, so I will not get involved." Everyone is after that all mighty dollar and in a hurry. Look at your freeways during "Rush hour". Watch how everyone drives as they speed by you or blow their horn when you get in their way. When people stopped and "Smelled the roses", our world was a better place. Now Cocaine is the "King of cash", drug addiction is more prevalent, blood-borne diseases are on the rise and non-marital sex is "cool". While someone is trying to get what is yours, someone is stealing theirs. Bring back some values into your thoughts, teach caring about others, and you will not need "The secret agent man".
This is my two cents worth of thought......38 Special.........

38...

Very well written and needed post....

Thanks 38........jerry

"Imagine there's no countries.
It isn't hard to do.
Nothing to kill or die for.
And no religion too.
Imagine all the people,
Living life in peace...

You may say I'm a dreamer,
But I'm not the only one,
I hope some day you'll join us,
And the world will live as one."

Thank you, Mr. Lennon, for your kind wisdom.

From your dreamer, pacifist, Canadian friend.

Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world...

I will do my best to not judge any of you on your thoughts and veiws,please dont try to judge me on mine.We can go back and forth on this issue all day.Steve&kids

Steve sweetie;

Come sing with me, love...

I don't judge.

That was my point...

But then again

"You may say that I'm a dreamer,
But I'm not the only one..."

Menolly

As long as we are under, what I believe, is an unsean Holly war, (Read Revelations), those in polical office (world wide) are there my design of, Higher power(s).

If, a person doesn't think there are more then "ONE" Higher power with a capital "H". One only has to think how effective a war is, with only one power involved!

Satan, or what ever you want to call him, is a Higher power then us humans and "IS" worshiped by some humans!

One only has to look that how those that worships Santan and/or hold a tersest type personality are viewed, then one can see/understand, how ugy this unseen war is, that's going on about us!

There can not be a war without a power against another power! And as can be seen in human history, there's those cought in the middle.

Taking, what is "Written" as signs with what's going on here amoung us (human history) in reguards to wars, I see how wars are fought.

Those that fight (military) and those that are cought in the middle that die, are expendable for the cause.

I can not fathum how that fits in the "unseen" war and is very disturbing to me!

Now, with that said, is Bush in office by design? One might look at "how" he got to be in "power"! Apparently Gore couldn't get the job done, in this time table?

Another question, those that are in power in other countries that are (in our view) the scum of the earth and still in power, what PURPOSE is that, and those that believe in them?

Well, there's MY two cents, waiting for change.

"...All we need is love,
la dee da dee dah,
All we need is love,
la dee da de dah
All we need is love, love!
Love is all we need!"

MENOLLY.... LOVE IS THE ANSWER, BUT, BRAY IS RIGHT... NOT TOO MANY IN POWER TODAY HAVE NOR DO THEY EVEN KNOW WHAT REAL LOVE IS....

ACTIONS ARE MUCH MORE POWERFUL THAN WORDS.

MY LOVE DONNA

Ms. Menolly:
I love that song and author, too. I hate he was killed for I loved his songs. Thank you for singing and reminding me of a great man with excellent words. God, I miss him sooooo much. Sing some more and I will sing with you.
Remembering Mr. John Lennon,
38 Special

Oh, Men, you are so cool.

38 Special;

In case you haven't figured out yet, that I am a total pacifist,

AND

to honour your request for a song...

******************************

"You say you want a revolution,
Well, you know,
We all wanna change the world.
You tell me that it's evolution,
Well, you know,
We all wanna change the world.

But when you're talkin' about destruction,
Don't you know that you can count me out.


You know we're gonna be,
ALL RIGHT.
You know, it's gonna be,
ALL RIGHT,
Yes, we're gonna be,
ALL RIGHT!

You say you've got a real solution,
Well, you know,
We'd all love to see the plan.
You ask me for a contribution,
Well, you know,
We're all doing what we can.

But if you want money
For people with minds that hate,
All I can say brother, is
You'll have to wait.

Cus, you know, we're gonna be,
ALL RIGHT,
You know it's gonna be,
ALL RIGHT.
Yeah, it's gonna be,
ALL RIGHT!

BudBaby;

This one's for you...

***********************************
Hey Jude, Don't make it sad,
Take a sad song, and make it better,
Remember to let US into your heart,
Then you can start, to make it better...

...And any time you feel the pain,
Hey Jude, refrain,
Don't carry the world upon your shoulders.
For don't you know,
That it's a fool who thinks its cool,
By making his world a little colder...

Na na na na na, na na NAH...

...So let it out, and let it in,
Hey Jude, Begin,
You're waiting for someone to perform with...


(In Texas, girl, in March...)

Webby, since I seem to be on a roll here...
********************************************

"I look at you all,
See the love there that's sleeping,
While my guitar gently weeps.

I look down at the floor,
And see that it needs sweeping,
Still my guitar gently weeps.

I don't know why nobody told you,
How to unfold your love,
I don't know how someone controlled you
They bought you and sold you.

I look at the world and I notice it's turning,
While my guitar gently weeps.
With every mistake we must surely be laearning
Still my guitar gently weeps...

I look at you all,
See the love there that's sleeping,
While my guitar gently weeps...

*Written by another very gentle man, George Harrison. May he too rest in peace, and never see the mess the world is in!)

Tek, Darling,

Apologies for stealing, and taking over your post...

"But, you may say I'm a dreamer..."

Love,
Menolly

AMEN TO ALL THATS BEEN POSTED!!!!!!!!

Hey Dreamer....

No problem !!
You just keep on singing and dreaming, and let's hope and pray the world will follow.

Love,
jerry

MENOLLY,

HEY JUDE.... MY VERY FAVIORITE SONG... HOW DID YOU KNOW.... JERRY IS RIGHT, YOU JUST KEEP ON SINGING AND DREAMING.... CAN'T WAIT TIL TEXAS...


MY LOVE
DONNA