Hello all,

This is a touchy subject for me. However, I feel safe talking to all of you.

My man has a history of domestic violence toward women. It's not the reason why he's locked up now, but I'm concerned. Before he and I got together, I saw him curse and hit his wife. (ex now). She wasn't as physically violent, but she abused him too.

I've known him for 3 years and have been with him for 2. He's never abused or cursed me at all. He's never even threatened to. However, he is getting physically rougher with me at visits. He says he's just playing, and he's not hurting me, but I'm worried about how far this "playing" will go when he gets mad at me after he's released.

He has a big problem with anger management. He's doing well though and he's staying out of trouble. I'm just worried that when he comes home, I may be the object of his anger when something upsets him.

I would like to talk to him about it, but I'm worried that he may take what I say the wrong way. In the past when I bring it up he says, "You've never made me mad enough to do anything." I know an abuser blames everything on the victim. I refuse to be a victim. I love him and I've supported him through everything, but I've always told him that if he ever lays a hand on me, then I'm gone. The promises I made to him will be broken.

Thanks for listening.

I know EXACTLY how you are feeling. I have struggled with this for a long time with Juan. However, Juan originally went to jail for domestic violence, then INS took him into custody. I promised him I would never leave him and many more promises and I had a hard time making my decision to finally end the marriage because of all the promises I made.

For a while I waited to see what would happen because he had gone back to Christ and was getting his life together. For a while I would get wonderful, loving letters, then I would mention something in passing and I would get a very verbal abusive letter, then a nice letter and the cycle started.

It is so hard to make a decision to leave someone you love very much and I can tell you that probably everyone will tell you that if you have doubts and know that he could be violent then leave him. But it is not that easy to just up and do that. Most people who give that "advice" do not know everything or the circumstances.

Did you say he was taking an anger management class? That is a good direction to go. If he is willing to listen to your concerns and willing to go to classes.... then wait and see what happens.

The past is a good tool to evaluate the present. If things have not changed much, then the past might be done again? Another thing to concider is the fact that things are not now or will be the same as the past, in the future. One needs to evaluate what triggered the behavior in the past and will that be present in the future?

With all that lined up, one might get a pertty good picture of what things will be like.

The thing is, Denise, my ex husband, (Bill, too,as a matter of fact) was and still is a violent man with other women he has been involved with. And saying you haven't made him mad enough is not good enough. You NEVER know what is going to trigger them off. It isn't even what you say, it's all about control. And Bullying. My ex had very little control of his life through his own actions, so the first thing he did when he got angry was use his fists. As his own father did. I have been apart from him for 4 years now, and can see now that there are men out there that don't resort to physical violence, that fight fair. But I truly do believe there are men out there who really do not like women and feel threatened by them Just be really careful and listen to that little voice inside you. Be brave.

Denise,

Please be careful, I agree with CWQ, good advise. Please be careful.------Ken

DENIESE:

DOMESTIC VIOLENCE IS A TRAIT THAT DOES COME FROM CHILDHOOD. IT IS ONE THAT CANNOT BE HELPED WITHOUT A PERSON WANTING HELP AND HAVING PROFESSIONAL COUNSELING. IT MAY NOT HAVE HAPPENED YET, BUT ONCE, JUST ONCE THAT IT DOES, IT WILL HAPPEN MORE AND MORE.... A VIOLENT PERSON WAS TAUGHT TO BE VIOLENT. THIS IS A HABIT THAT HAS TO BE UNTAUGHT.... THAT IS WHY YOU SEE SO VERY MUCH SPOUSE AND CHILD ABUSE TODAY... THERE IS A GREAT DIFFERENCE IN ABUSE AND DISIPLINE OF A CHILD....

ASK YOUR MAN TO GET HELP NOW AND NOT WAIT UNTIL THE OUTBURST COMES.

MY LOVE AND PRAYERS
DONNA

I'm writing him a letter explaining my feelings on the subject. Yes, Billy learned it from watching his parents. His dad has so much control over everyone else, especially Billy's mom. He never let her have a driver's license or a job.

Billy has learned the control issue from them. He has seen how power controls his mom. She doesn't really have a mind of her own and she second-guesses herself when it comes to making a decision. She has always given Billy what he wants to avoid an arguement. Billy's son is going to be just like that. He already shows the signs and he's only 6.

Billy has been to anger management classes. He has a short temper and he doesn't know how to direct his anger so that people don't get hurt. His drinking had a big part to play in it also. He was mellow and OK when he just drank beer, but when he got liquor--he got mean and nasty.

So talking to him about his anger and his alcohol problem is the only way to go. I love him and I've always judged him by the way he treats me; not the way he treats everyone else.

Thanks for the advice. :wave:

The two black eyes my husband gave me for no reason made me do some research, and what I found is what everyone is telling you. The first thing you need to do is do is look up some facts and make your decisions from there. It was a real eye opener for me. Thankfully, my husband has been getting counceling for his anger problem which is made worse by his alcohol problem. I wish you the best whatever you decide. God Bless!!!!!!!!
Cindy

My first red flag would have shot up when he said "you have never made me angry enough." what the ??? You can't make someone else feel anything!! They choose to feel that way on their own! Sure, it is easy sometimes to predict how a person will react to your behavior, but you never make them feel any particular thing. So, does this little comment mean you are supposed to watch your step so you don't find out how pissed he has to be before you are bobbing and weaving like the last chick?
And do check into some literature on the cycle of abuse in a relationship. The honeymoon phase, the tensing up phase, the explosion, the apology, the honeymoon phase....
sound familiar to anyone?

Sorry I just went off like that, but that one little comment just set me off in a bad way!!! I'm not trying to judge Bill! I just see an area that should be addressed-seriously!

i've also survived a relationship where domestic violence was prevelant. i think you really need to think about this, denise. be careful. don't worry about him taking what you say the wrong way. if he's truly over his "old ways", then you shouldn't be afraid to mention anything to him.

you really need to be careful here. i don't know how many times my ex-husband would CRY to me (this is my first ex, not my second, who's a sweetie) "i won't ever do that again" and sometimes, it wouldn't even be 24 hours! i TOTALLY relate to what vnv said....there's a whole cycle here, and, from what i have read, it's a hard one to break. these men know how to choose their victims, too, denise, so DON'T fall into that roll. be assertive and up front with this guy and don't let him intimidate you. it sounds to me like some of this is already going on.

like vnv said, i'm sorry if i sound too harsh here, but i've been there, done that, and don't want to see another innocent woman in that kind of circumstance. it's not worth it. you can find someone else to love that won't hit you....

ac

Yes, when Billy told me, "You've never made me mad enough." That got to me, like he's going to blame me for his anger. I've always told him that I can't control anyone else, that I can only control what I do and say within a situation. I'm a very strong woman and Billy knows that I'm not going to let him treat me the way that his mom was treated or Billy's ex's. I saw those phases he went through with his ex. Anger, sorry, loving, then anger again, and so on.

His dad use to come into Billy's home when he and his ex was still together. His dad would try to bitch at everyone and lay down the law. I've already told Billy that he better not come into my house telling me how to live.

I've already been as straight and honest as I can with Billy. He knows where I stand with the situation, but it's always worth repeating.

I won't be a victim and I refuse to allow Billy and his family to try and control me. I was raised to be a strong woman and do what I have to do for myself to survive.

I love Billy and as long as it doesn't get to that point, I think that everything will be ok.

Denise, well girl your post really got to me. Albert has had violent situations with his ex girlfriend in the past and at first I was kinda scared. When he told me, he didn't ever go in to detail just saying that one day he will sit me down and tell me everything. It's really good that Billy has been taking anger-management classes. He has to want to change. And to me it sounds like he's showing some signs. I would have never in a million years have thought Albert would do that because I never and still haven't seen that side of him. Whenever he's angry he tells me and will stay away from me or he won't even want to talk on the phone. but I know that when it's time to come home, it will always be in my mind. You never know what's going to set them off, it could be anything. I think you need to talk to Billy and express your concerns. Let me know how everything goes. I hope he's understanding about everything.

Amy

Amy,

Billy gets mad at me on the phone but the next time he calls, he apologizes. He has a tendency to speak before thinking and it really hurts my feelings sometimes. But he's never been mean to me like he had been with his ex-wife and girlfriends. He never curses me, calls me names, or threatens to do anything to me. He was like that with the others.

I think the one thing that I do that the others didn't is that I don't argue with him. When he's mad like that, I just let him have his breather and he then has time to cool off. After that, we can talk peacefully and open without the anger issue.

Still I worry about what will happen when he comes home and is living with me. We didn't live together before he was locked up because he was still married. It may be different with him when we are together 24/7. I can't say what he'll do until that time comes.

Denise, I lived with an abusive husband for three and half years. He use to tell me I wouldn't of hit you if you didn't get me so angry. He use to beat me to bloody pulp and then leave and when he came back I had flowers and he was very loving promising to never do it again. Then in a couple of days I would do something to piss him and I would ask him to please go and cool off, he would but it would be short lived cuz just as soon as I would try and talk with him about what he was so mad at he would punch me and tell me I am what made him so mad. Denise you sould like I use to, oh I ma different I give him time to cool off, that is what my psychologist use to tell me was this that I was making up excuses to justify why in the beginning he never hit me. If he is an alocoholic and is not getting treated for that the chances are that when he gets out he could get physical with you. Already it sounds like he is just by the way he has been acting when you visit, and look at the pattern of the phone calls hangs up then next day apologizes. He can't angry where he is at due to the fact that it won't be tolerated there. I will be praying for you because that is a very hard decision to make. Hugs Robbie

Dear Denise-

be careful! Please, keep the promise you made - if he ever raises his hand against me, I will leave- stick to it!

Before I got married, I always said that no one was ever going to hit me. Ok- it happened. Yeah, I pissed him off, it was mostly my fault, I should have shut up...

It went on for nine years. As soon as I brought up the strength to leave, he would sense it and apologize and promise to change things. He'd plead and cry, do the sweetest things. And I fell for it! After all- it takes two to fight...

The first time my oldest child called me 'mommy'- it was while he was beating and kicking the shit out of me. i tried to keep quiet so that she wouldn't wake up, but she did. She was so scared- I will never forget her cries.
After that I was about to kill myself- that's how bad I felt.
I don't know how many times she walked in on us when he was beating me and jumped on his back to get him off of me.

She was 7 years old and her brother still a baby... 03-15-1998. Once again- for some stupid reason- he lost his temper.He slapped me so hard that I fell down- then his fists came down on my head- he kept on punching and punching...I guess he stopped when his hands started hurting, so started kicking me. Crissy walked in on us and started screaming when she saw the blood. And then my little boy was crying... and I heard this for the first time:"Mommy!".

After my husband left, I finally realized...I owe it to my daughter not to let my son go through the hell I put her through.
I moved out and filed for divorce.

how many times did I say '...but I love him?' or "it's my fault because I pissed him off." or ' he will change". The result: two miscarriages, a cracked skull, uncountable black eyes, scars and worst of all the memories that my daughter has tried to bury!

Denise- I don't know you or Bill- but if he hits you once... get the hell away from him!


Tanya

I've never been abused before. I know it is horrible. And I've also known that I'm determined to NOT be a victim. When he tells me, "You've never made me mad enough," I get mad because it's not my fault on how he reacts to something. Through years of dealing with female friends of mine, and their relationships, I know the cycle of abuse.

So far Billy has been wonderful to me. He's never cursed me or threatened to do anything. That all may change when he comes home though. We will have to wait and see. I will not not blame myself for his actions and I know that I can never change him. He has to change himself.

The first time will be the last time. All my promises to him will be broken because I will leave.

Denise...

I hope and pray that everything goes well for you and Bill.

The reason why I wrote down part of my abuse story, is to just show what can happen... I was blinded by love and in the end paralized by fear.
There are women that won't put up with a lot of BS, but then there are people like me, that get their butts kicked and kicked until one day they wake up and smell the coffee.
It's not like I think 'poor me'- I don't sweat it anymore. What bothers me is that I put up with itall and put my daughter through it.
As long as you know that there isno control you can have over someones temper and don't love too much, you'll be just fine.
i suggest you really meke use of the time he's locked up to intensely adress these issues to him- even though he might not like it. After all, you are the one trying to overlook his past and willing to spend the rest of your life with him.

Tanya

Tanya,

I understand what you went through. I've seen a lot of my friends being abused by their men and I've seen them go back to them. I've always said that I won't let it happen to me. No one deserves that treatment.

Billy has 2 years left and I'm trying to talk him into taking anger managment classes while he's still there. It's just like drug and alcohol abuse classes. They will only help if the person really wants help. No one can change them, they have to change themselves.

I've grown up to be a strong woman. I watched my mom work because my dad was too lazy. I've seen her take care of all the problems and she's always the one to not take any crap from anyone. I've learned from her and I've never been in a relationship where I've been LESS than equal to the man. I won't in this relationship either. Billy and I have a lot of things to work out before he gets home.

I'm glad that you finally got out of your horrible situation. Thank you for all your advice.

Denise,

Please don't allow yourself to become another victim. Although I believe a person can change, if they're not willing to help bring about that change, its a warning sign to me. You are going to do whatever you want to do but I pray that you'll be safe and careful.

Val

Denise,

I, like Tanya, was in an abusive relationship for many years, 13 to be exact. I've had a gun held to my head, been pulled out of bed in the middle of the night to "talk", had a chain saw thrown at me, along with all the verbal abuse that goes along with it. My beatings pretty much stopped in 1984 after I pulled a restraining order on him, but instead of punching me, he would punch the wall next to my head. So, you see, the intimidation was still there. I was still living in fear. Even your mom was abused by being the one to work because your dad was too lazy. It's just in another form.

What worries me is that Billy is getting "rough" with you at visits. If he's rough with you in a public place, you may never get out of a private place alive. I don't mean to scare you, but you sound a whole lot like what Tanya and I used to sound like. I too am a very strong woman. If we weren't, we wouldn't have survived it all. I too was and am the breadwinner. I also stood up for myself, but every time he came at me with those puppy dog eyes and said he was sorry and he loved me more than anything, I fell for it, hook, line and sinker. When my oldest son, who was 5 at the time, came to my rescue with a butter knife in his hand saying "Leave my mommy alone!", you would think I would have left then, but he still convinced me it would never happen again. I said I would leave him at least 1000 times and yet I stayed for what I thought was love. Drugs (speed) and alcohol were always a part of his lifestye too. I am a textbook version of an abused spouse and so is Tanya. Please, please, please, don't become another statistic!

If Billy's father is like this in public, you can better believe that it's the only way Billy knows how to be a man. The apple does not fall far from the tree. His father is his role model. He needs help and lots of it to break the cycle. My biggest blessing is that my sons were young enough (9 & 1) to stop the damage. They are loving, caring boys, who would not think of raising a hand against a woman. The sad thing is their father never got to see them grow up. He moved back east and never saw them again (for the last 12 yrs). He just recently died in May at the age of 46. Even sadder is that his sons do not feel a loss, and for no other reason than he did not try to be in their lives.

Your own self esteem plays a big part in it too. While I was and am a very strong woman in many ways, my self esteem was not even close to what it is today. So check your self image too. If you even for a minute don't think you deserve anyone better than Billy, your self esteem is low. By that I don't mean Billy isn't all that. You can put any man's name in there you like. It's the "what you are deserving of" part that you need to examine. If you look at ourself in the mirror and see your faults instead of your strengths, your self esteem is questionable. You are a wonderful human being that deserves all that this world has to offer. Don't sell yourself short. Most of all, think clearly, act rationally and love yourself enough to know whether or not Billy can, will or wants to change.

My prayers are with you and Billy. God bless you both and may you both be at peace, because there is no better place to be.

Bonnie aka freedom anjel :(

Bonnie,

you said it so much better than I would have ever been able to.
Denise, like Bonnie- I have left sooooooo many times.
Don't ever make the mistake of being to hard on yourself.

Talk to Bill as much as you can now and evaluate what you hear.

Tanya

Thanks Tanya! Only those of us who have lived it can really understand. While Denise says she understands what we went through because she sees her friends go through it, it's not even close. Until you've had that punch to the head that brings stars, until you've had your hair torn out by the roots or your face so swollen and bruised you couldn't think of a story or find enough make up and cover up the abuse........you can't understand.

Denise, please listen to us. We know what we're talking about. We are survivors of this horrible nightmare called spousal abuse. Playing rough in the visiting room is only a precurser to what will happen when he gets home. Even more evident is the fact that he treated his ex this way and you witnessed it. Billy is a time bomb waiting to go off & it has nothing to do with who or what lights the fuse. He may not like the color of your lipstick that day.

I'm praying for you desparately!! Oh heavenly Father, please watch over Denise. Give her wisdom in this relationship. Help her to see what she needs to see. Reveal all that is necessary for her to make a wise decision. Lord, I just lift her up to You today. I lift Billy up to You today too Father. Break this cycle of abuse that is living in his heart. Tear it out of him Lord. Give him the strength to know his weakness and to seek help so that no harm may come to Denise. I ask this in Jesus Holy Name.... AMEN!!

Hope I don't offend anyone by putting my prayers out there for all to see, but I am a prayer warrior and there is power in prayer. Always honored, always answered!!

Bonnie,
thanks again...

Denise, please don't think we're trying to make him out to be a bad guy that doesn't deserve your love... but he's a guy with a serious problem. Not even he will be able to tell you why he explodes. And the only way for him to *maybe* change is by him not finding any more excuses as for why he was abusive - honesty is the first step. Then, he will need serious counseling. The anger-management- classes in jails or prisons aren't enough.
I can remember when my family and friends were talking to me like Bonnie and I are talking to you... it p'd me off and I got real defensive over my ex-husband. I hated people bugging me with advice I didn't want to hear. I wanted to hear everyone say that everything will be ok and what a great guy he was and that with a little time and working on himself, he would change. I isolated myself.

I don't want to imply that you are like Bonnie or me...I pray to God you aren't! And I beg you to be cautious.


Tanya

I've passed over this subject because I didn't think I had anything to offer.

But since reading the responces reminded me of a neighbor many years ago and he beat his wife a lot! Until her bother, a big brut, beat the crap out of him and I mean did a number, ER and all! Never heard a thing there after, no cops or anything. I do believe the guy thought the bro would finish the job if there was a next time. Fear can be good!

Dear B-Ray,

in a way I agree with what you said. Maybe once they feel like their victim and are scared it will happen again- maybe it can change them or at least stop them.
Abusive men thrive on the power they have over the victim. They feed on the fear.

oops- I'm talking about abusive MEN- of course there also are abusive women...

I TOO LIVED IN AN ABUSIVE RELATIONSHIP FOR 20 YEARS.... THAT IS THE REASON MY MIDDLE SON IS IN PRISON TODAY.... HAD I LEFT A LONG TIME BEFORE I DID, THINGS WOULD NOT BE AS THEY ARE TODAY... DENESE I KNOW IT IS HARD TO BELIEVE BUT WHAT THESE GIRLS ARE TELLING YOU IS TRUE. IT ONLY GETS WORSE UNLESS YOU PUT YOUR FOOT DOWN NOW..... YOU MUST LET HIM KNOW RIGHT THIS MINUTE THAT YOU WILL NOT TOLERATE THE WAY HE IS TREATING YOU.... DON'T WAIT UNTIL IT IS TOO LATE.

MY LOVE
DONNA

Please, Please be careful, as for what he did to his ex you said she abused him and thats why he hit her, but you also said she wasnt physical so there was absolutly no excuse to be violent there never is.
Its so easy to get caught in a trap, an ex bf of mine hit me and made me believe it was my fault, in the past I always that it was stupid how women could blame themselves now I understand!
As for getting angry and then apologising that it classic abusive behaviour. Also havent you lived with him already, as that can be stressful enough. The saying you have never known a person till you lived with them rings very true. The problem is never know what it will be like until it happens to you. If you have a close relationship you should discuss your fears with him and say just because "you didnt make him mad enough" is not good enough, he needs to say because I am not violent anymore no matter what the circumstances.
Another worry is you said you have never argued with him, but when your living with him you might one day, you cant go around thinking I cant argue with this man or he may hit me thats no way to live. I also believe that many men can stop being violent, as long as they get help, make sure the day he raises his hand to you is the day that not you who leaves but HIM, make sure you call the police as that sort of behaviour should not go unoticed.
I hope for your sake he has changed, and good luck for both of you as it seems you have come a long way.
Good Luck!
Take Care
Caroline

My b/f is in prison because he was married to an abusive woman. Its a fact. She would stab him, wake him up in the middle of the night by pounding the @#$% out of him, throw things at him, you name it.

He wanted to leave with his daughter but there are no support groups or anyone to help men in this situation. He tried to leave with his daughter and one day she went a little crazy and he called the police and they arrested him for assault because she told the police it was him who abused her. He was trying to protect himself.

There is zero tolerance where I live for domestic abuse and police assume its the man. No questions asked. He pled guilty because he did not want her to go to prison and he ended up with a 2 year sentence and will be out after serving a third of his sentence because he was ashamed to tell the truth. I met him a year ago after him and his wife split up after a year and a half. He is a wonderful man who lived with abuse while growing up and while married. He is now getting the help he needs in prison of all things and is now in a relationship with me that is abuse free and loving.

DSD

I'm sorry for your husband, DSD.
Yes, I am also well aware of this problem.

When Ernie (not the man that abused me) was arrested in June, they tried to charge him with domestic violence, too. That evening, we had taken a walk and we were horsing around. I don't remember how it happened, but at the edge of a 60 ft. steep hill, I lost my balance and fell. I was unconcious, so Ernie ran to a pay-phone.
When he came back, people were gathered around me and were saying that he had punched me and pushed me down that hill.They had called the police, and I woke up. When I heard what they were trying to accuse him of, I told them that he didn't touch me... but still they went after him.
It took a lot of convincing from my side to have the state drop the charges.

In either case- a lot of abused spouses never report the abuse, so I guess this is why they will give the accused one a hard time to prove his innocense.
And yes, I see it myself... a woman has a greater chance of getting away with it.

Thanks for everyone's advice and opinions.

Billy's ex wife was abusive too. She slipped valiums in his drinks to make him pass out. She would curse him and threaten to leave their son home alone to follow him if he left. 3 times she had him arrested for domestic abuse but he never put a hand on her. I know--I was there. She wouldn't show up for court and they'd drop the charges. So all that went against him when it was time to sentence him for this time. She tried to run him over with a car. Once she stabbed him with a fork. It was horrifying. Yes, I believe that women can be the abusers as well. She is living proof of it.