View Full Version : what exactly is a violent offense?


robin_n_jim
10-07-2003, 03:15 PM
You know I am a little confused on exactly what is a Violent crime and what isn't, well, ok let me rephrase that, I am not sure if my husbands offense is considered a violent offense...

my husband was convicted one 3 counts of "armed" robbery 2 of them no one hurt or even touched but one of them a man was hurt, but it wasn't my husband who touched him it was the other man that was with him, and I kee getting asked if he is a violent offender, and to be honest i have no clue if that is considered a violent offense.

anyone know??????

toi_ama
10-07-2003, 03:43 PM
Yes, he would be considered a violent offender because he had a weapon. Whether or not he used it doesn't matter. He had the potential to commit a violent act and by having a weapon, that shows he had intent. He put others in fear for their safety because they knew he could kill or severely injure them, and that puts him in the class of a violent offender. Crimes where a gun or other deadly weapon is involved are dealt with more harshly by the system because they're considered more of a danger to society than, for instance, an unarmed theif who shoplifts. Even though your husband may not have actually been the one who harmed someone else, the fact that he was there makes him just as guilty in the eyes of the law.

jacksonchiniti
07-19-2004, 09:01 PM
What makes the sale of marijuana a violent offense?

MrsMalcom
07-19-2004, 09:08 PM
Here is the lowdown on "violent offenses".

In the corrections (legal) context.

A "violent offense" is a statutory term, meaning that every state, as part of their penal code has a definition of what constitutes a "violent offense" in that state. For the most part - states have a different way of treating "violent offenders" in the correctional processes. They may not get as many credit days, they may not be eligible to be on certain yards, it's a way of determining how a convict will be treated from the moment he is convicted.

So - there are some states wherein to get a "hard-line" on drug offenders, they have stautorily stated that "possession of drugs" is a violent offense. A violent offense may not be a violent crime at all, for clarification look to your states penal code.

It has nothing to do with weapons, or previous felonies, or anything so all encompassing as that.

Blondie19
07-27-2004, 10:40 PM
Can you tell me why stealing some pills at an open house would be considered a "violent crime"? My sister has received 2 strikes and in now ineligible for any kind of early release, work credits, etc. How is that a violent crime?

MrsMalcom
07-28-2004, 04:46 PM
Blondie -

PM me - I need more info on the case. There MUST have been way more to this case then theft of some pills... that is hardly a strikeable offense.

DAVE NYC
07-31-2004, 02:08 PM
Violent crime? It is really hard to define what a violent crime is. Because, every single state has their own definition of what they consider a violent crime is. I spend approx. 7 years in NY states toughest prisons and I only studied NY State law.


Anyhow, I remember awhile back I was looking at my rap sheet and I had a 1987 arrest for burglary in the third degree. It was an apartment building and it only had 3 apartments occupied out of about 40 apartments. So, there were plenty of abandoned apartments. I was living in a vacant apartment illegally for 3 months and I got locked out of the apartment. So, I went down the fire escape from the roof and entered "my" apartment. The police were notified and I was arrested for "armed burglary" they only thing I was armed with was a spoon (I was on drugs at the time). They let me go after I saw the judge 3 days later. But, when I looked on my rap sheet, It said "Violent Crime" on that burglary charge. So, you can see how crimes can be interrupted as violent when there was no violence. It seems each state makes up the rules as they go along.:confused:

haswtch
08-01-2004, 11:47 AM
It sure doesn't have anything at all to do with whether anyone actually got hurt. My love is considered a second time violent felon. The first strike in 89, was for being in a car where a handgun sale took place while on probation for possesion of reefer and LSD. This time, they claim he took a swing at a cop because he was so irate about a seatbelt ticket, missed, and ran away. He's never been known to so much as shove or slap another human being except, for some mysterious reason, LEOs:( They have twice jumped him and trounced him and thrown him in jail and outright made stuff up about him assaulting them. Those times, he got acquitted. This time he got scared of it happening again, on a lonely back road, and ran. Two months before the end of the time that they coulda sentenced him on the earlier strike.
I say they are the violent offenders.

his_lil_sis
08-16-2004, 10:51 PM
Hi, My brother is serving 7 years on aggravated Robbery, he had no weapon!!! and had his hands in his pockets during the robbery..he was still charged with an aggravated offense and has to register as an violent offender once released...They ( prosecuter and his court appointed attorney) convinced him to plead guilty and said he would only do 1/3 of 10 years, after he signed papers and was transfered to county facility he was told he would be doing 70% of the 10 years.....I don't know if we will get time cut but anything is worth a try...Thanks for listening and would appreciate any input...my brother is in Tucker Unit in Arkansas

DAVE NYC
08-17-2004, 08:46 AM
I think it is an outrage that the system can do anything they feel like it. The members of our penal system have the power of God. It is a shame what happened to your brother. You see, in a case like that, I would have held out to prepare for trial. Most of the time the state does not want to spend all that money on a trial. Especially if it is a low felony and nobody got hurt. For example, a friend of mine pled to a 3 and a half to 7 for one count of burglary. It was a "D" felony. The max for a "D" felony in the state of NY is a 3 and a half to 7 and he pled to the max. Can you see how that does not sound right?

That means, if he decided to go to trial and was found guilty the most they could have given him is a 3 and a half to 7. So, in a case like that, you say you want to go to trial. You have nothing to lose if you are found guilty. But, a lot of men would rather just plead to get out of the county jail. If my friend decided to take his case to trial, the DA would have started to offer him lower plea bargains, like a 3 to 6 or a 2 and a half to 5...even a 2 to 4 or a 1 and a half to 3. Because, the last thing they want to do is take a case to trial. It cost the state a lot of time and money to set up a trial. My friend could have got a nice 2 and a half to 5, if he just held out. Maybe even a 2 to 4. Because, nobody got hurt in his crime. Yet they still called it violent.

Now, when you are doing time for a "violent crime" most states want an inmate to bring the parole board a minimum of two-thirds of the max. So, if a man has a 10 year max...they want two-thirds of that and that comes to 7 plus years. The prisoner does not see that, they only see the minimum and think they have a chance to make their first parole board. It just does not work that way and I think it is disgusting. If the people on the parole board had a fight with their spouse that morning, did not get enough sleep the night before, is hung over, if the inmate reminds him of a family member they don't like, if the parole board is hungry, if it is raining out, etc., etc., etc., It all has to do with the mood of the parole board. If it is a Friday and they are feeling good, you might make it. If it is a Monday and it is raining, you may not make it. That is what I think is disgusting about our system. We give people the power of God, to decide if a person deserves his/her freedom!
:angry:



Hi, My brother is serving 7 years on aggravated Robbery, he had no weapon!!! and had his hands in his pockets during the robbery..he was still charged with an aggravated offense and has to register as an violent offender once released...They ( prosecuter and his court appointed attorney) convinced him to plead guilty and said he would only do 1/3 of 10 years, after he signed papers and was transfered to county facility he was told he would be doing 70% of the 10 years.....I don't know if we will get time cut but anything is worth a try...Thanks for listening and would appreciate any input...my brother is in Tucker Unit in Arkansas

jameslo
01-07-2005, 10:55 PM
I'm not trying to be unfeeling, because I know that families are victims of the offender's actions, too, but I see some posts complaining about sentences being different from one case to the next, and other posts complaining about mandatory sentences... taking away discression from the courts.

It can't be both ways.

It wasn't the court that decided if the person deserves their freedom. It was the person who committed the crime. The one who stole another person's prescription drugs, or ruined a small business with a robbery or arson, or ended a family with a bullet to take what another person worked for.

They decided to do what they did, and they knew they risked that loss of freedom. I doubt anyone is in jail dumbfounded about learning that armed robbery was illegal.

If they were all that concerned about it, they'd have either not committed the crime or did some research to decide if it was really worth what they were going to be facing.

Like I said, I'm not trying to be mean at all, but they're not in prison for singing off key in the church choir (that includes my friend who is in the system). Complaints about non-standard sentences in one forum are countered by complaints of mandatory sentences in other forums.

Hopefully things will work out for each and every one of them upon release, but we know all too well that the lure of whatever they get from their actions all too often takes them back to prison. All we can do is help them the best we possibly can, but in the end it's up to them to stay out of trouble. There's no one standing beside you or me all day long telling us what we can and can't do. And it's unlikely that any of us or our loved ones would welcome that kind of "guidance." We have to make the same choices as anyone else, and we have to make our choices on our own and live with the consequences. And some of those consequences may be what seems like a longer-than-deserved sentence to some people, and seem light to others involved.

DAVE NYC
01-07-2005, 11:31 PM
You have a good point, 98% of the people I was in prison with belonged behind bars. After all they broke the law and hurt others...Regardless of the crime. Some men should be doing a lot more time than they are doing now. I know I should have got more time. But, I took a plea bargain as most do. We have to face the cold facts. People are not in prison as a reward, they are in prison because they broke the law...period! Sure is a tiny tiny percentage of cases that "might" be unjust. But, the majority of the people in prison knew exactly what they were doing. Also, I sometimes find myself complaining about Americas prison conditions. Lets be real here. I know people that would rather be locked up in the United States than be free men in their motherland, outside of the USA. So, imagine what those prisons are like in those countries if they would rather be locked up in America prisons...than be free men in their own countries?

Most American prisons have clean conditions, TV-HBO, three hot meals, clothes and the basic comforts that most people don't have around the world. Even if they get sent to the box, the conditions are better than being free in a lot of countries outside the USA. It cost 30 to 40 thousand dollars to house one inmate per year in the US.

So yes, it is sad one is locked up...But, what about the victims? What about the laws that were broken? If we did not have laws, then we would have Anarchy, that is the bottom line.

I know I sound cold. But, I am being blunt. I did 7 years and I saw who was in prison and I worked in the law library and read cases of fellow inmates and I would say to myself. "This man belongs here...or I would say, this man is not doing enough time for his crime." I would watch these convicts eating ice cream watching HBO (in bed) and listening to them complain about being locked up. This is after I read that they murdered a fellow human and saw he was only doing a measly 12 or 15 years for taking a life.

Do I feel bad people are locked up? Yes. But, 98% of the time these inmates could have prevented being locked up. Because, it is not only them doing the time, it is their loved ones that have to suffer and it is society that has to suffer as well. They suffer because laws were broken, victims are hurting and it cost a lot of money to house an inmate to a nice cushy prison.

Being this is a violent crime thread, it is violent crimes that have to be dealt with the most. As the saying goes, "violeance never solved anything and I don't think anyone is special. Except for that very tiny percentage that have had just cause to harm another human being.
But, the amount of people that broke the law for just cause is so tiny, it does not even make the graph. That is why we rarely see a reversal or an appeal won.

I am not trying to be cold. I am just stating the cold blunt facts. I paid my dues for the crimes I committed and I was not given special treatment. That is because I broke the law.

jameslo
01-07-2005, 11:37 PM
If your post is anything to go on, I'd say you also learned from the experience. That's worthy of respect.

DAVE NYC
01-07-2005, 11:59 PM
I learned more than anyone could truly imagine. Because, I saw things from both sides of the fence.

to23ny
01-19-2005, 10:16 PM
Hello everyone, I am new to the board and have a question regarding the classification of a violent offense. My cousin was involved in a car accident in which his two friends died, my cousin was the driver. There was a high rate of speed and alcohol and diabetic shock involved in the accident and my brother plead guilty to 2 counts of second degree manslaughter and driving while intoxicated (he did not want to go to trial on 2 counts of second degree murder which carries a sentence of 15-25 on each count). The plea bargain carries an indeterminant sentence of 4-12 years. My question- is he considered a violent offender? and will he have to serve two-thirds of his sentence (8 years)? By the way, this is in NYS. Everyone we have spoken too, including his attorney, said this is not a violent offense and that he should only have to serve 4 years with good behavior, etc. Thanks for your help!

mrsdragoness
01-19-2005, 10:21 PM
Welcome to PTO!

You may want to ask this question in your state forum - scroll down the front page until you find it.

EAch state has different laws so if you ask in your state forum, you'll get state specific answers.

good luck

mrsd

BigDaddysBaby
01-20-2005, 01:55 PM
What's also considered "violent" in NY is the "what appears to be a firearm or weapon" thing. For example, lil sis -- you said what makes stealing pills a violent crime for your sister -- let's say she went into a pharmacy with her hand in her pocket or beneath her jacket pointing her hand at the person behind the register. Just her pointing or further, her saying she has a gun or knife though she really doesn't is an example of how stealing pills will be violent in New York.

to23ny
01-21-2005, 05:37 AM
Hey all, look what I found on the web last night.

http://www.new-york-arraignments.com/allnumeric.htm

Hope this helps those of you in NY!

MsStacey
03-25-2005, 01:16 AM
I found out today that my penpal lied to me about his offense. His *actual* conviction is two counts of 1st degree burglary. Does anyone know what 1st degree (versus 3d degree burglary) means exactly? Is this a violent offense? I'm bummed that he lied, especially when he should know by now that he didn't need to. (I've never asked what he's serving time FOR, so he essentially offered me a bulls*** story.)

:(

seenitall
03-25-2005, 02:44 AM
[QUOTE]So yes, it is sad one is locked up...But, what about the victims? What about the laws that were broken? If we did not have laws, then we would have Anarchy, that is the bottom line.[QUOTE]

Never mind the debate about what is and what is not a violent offence.
What about the victim and how they feel and how they will feel in the future.

Whether a person used a weapon or not or indeed had intention to use the weapon is irrelvant what about the victim who was scared to death or their children who saw their parents bashed for a buck or two.

I agree with the post above at least there is some remorse from this person, my hat is off to you, you have won your honour back, and I would be happy to call you a friend.

DAVE NYC
03-25-2005, 10:18 AM
I found out today that my penpal lied to me about his offense. His *actual* conviction is two counts of 1st degree burglary. Does anyone know what 1st degree (versus 3d degree burglary) means exactly? Is this a violent offense? I'm bummed that he lied, especially when he should know by now that he didn't need to. (I've never asked what he's serving time FOR, so he essentially offered me a bulls*** story.)

:(
I hate to say it but anyone that commits 1st degree burglary is a violent felony offender.
Because of Pataki and his new laws....he did away with work release and the chances of making your first parole board on a violent felony offence are slim. Even if it is the inmates first felony.
If he has more than one felony. That makes him a mutable violent felony offender and NYS has got real tough on these type of crimes.
But, there is always hope.

:thumbsup:

stormierain
08-19-2005, 07:55 AM
I would like to know when the P/B takes the fact that people "age out"

DAVE NYC
08-19-2005, 08:07 AM
I would like to know when the P/B takes the fact that people "age out"
I hate to say this. But, when the parole board sees an inmate and reads the crime report. In the eyes of the parole board...the crime happen last week, even though a man might have done 10 years for it. It is all new to the board when they read the case.The board has no compassion or mercy. They let out some inmates simply because they need to make bed space for new inmates and nothing more and the first to be released ate people that committed non- violent crimes.When I went to my first board they hit me with 24 months...24 MONTHS! For what?What is the extra 24 months going to do to change things? Nothing. They did it for punitive reasons.They said that releasing this inmate (me) would not be in the best interest for the community at this point. But, in 24 months, it will be in the best interest? I was up for a conditional release 6 months after the 24 month hit. The way I see it, is if you extend an inmates stay for punitive reasons, that inmate will not be too happy once he is released and might even be more of a threat to the so called "community."

Kevin's Jenn
08-19-2005, 08:31 AM
I don't know either it is very confusing. Wouldn't you think Domestic VIOLENCE would be a violent crime???? But Kevin's isn't. I don't get it.

DAVE NYC
08-19-2005, 08:42 AM
I don't know either it is very confusing. Wouldn't you think Domestic VIOLENCE would be a violent crime???? But Kevin's isn't. I don't get it.
I gave up on trying to figure out our corrupt judicial system 20 years ago.

mrschris
09-28-2005, 12:25 AM
You know I am a little confused on exactly what is a Violent crime and what isn't, well, ok let me rephrase that, I am not sure if my husbands offense is considered a violent offense...

my husband was convicted one 3 counts of "armed" robbery 2 of them no one hurt or even touched but one of them a man was hurt, but it wasn't my husband who touched him it was the other man that was with him, and I kee getting asked if he is a violent offender, and to be honest i have no clue if that is considered a violent offense.

anyone know??????

"A violent crime is defined in the Act as any crime in which the actor causes death, causes serious bodily injury (as defined in subsection b of N.J.S.A. 2C:11-1), or uses or threatens the immediate use of a deadly weapon. The term violent crime also includes any aggravated sexual assault or sexual assault in which the actor uses or threatens the immediate use of physical force. The term "deadly weapon" is defined as any firearm or other weapon, device, instrument, material, or substance, whether animate or inanimate, which in the manner it is used or is intended to be used is known to be capable of producing death or serious bodily injury."

so there we have it for NJ :) a violent offender is a person who commits a violent crime...definition above...

nimuay
09-28-2005, 05:26 AM
You can't know what is violent by thinking about it - that would be too logical. Just look on the NY site listed above and notice that genital mutilation is a non-violent offense!

ajap
09-28-2005, 05:35 AM
I agree 100% with Dave - I too spent nearly 7 years in prison and in spite of the fact I was one of the few guilty people in prison I met many women that needed to be locked up. I felt the world was a safer place with some of these people away from our familis. One guard often said "they ain't here for going to Sunday school too much" and that summed it up pretty well.

I was considered a violent offender because of the amount of drugs I brought in - becoming a violent offender is much easier than you might think.

mrschris
09-29-2005, 03:24 PM
hmm...it seems as if the NJ definition of violent crime/offender basically covers all violent crimes (such as domestic violence), and omits crimes that are not physical in nature or physically violent (such as drug dealing). however, i guess it's really the way someone decides to decipher the law that makes all the difference in the world...

Atalie
10-11-2005, 04:04 PM
In VA breaking and Entering is considered a violent offence.

Ruddsgrl1
10-26-2005, 04:58 PM
But no one was hurt by what he did. His offense is a class 6 felony charge though. He isn't a violent man though he is gentle and sweet and very good plus he has this big heart that he doesn't like to show very often but it is there I have seen it! He doesn't have much more time to go and the gun thankfully is GONE but I wrote what happened in the post with boyfriends and husbands in prison with were you there the night he got arrested which I was.

Strasse
10-26-2005, 05:39 PM
There MUST have been way more to this case then theft of some pills... that is hardly a strikeable offense.

Coming into this late... Can't residential burglary (P.C. 460) be a strike offense, under 667.5(c)(21)?

camah
12-19-2005, 10:51 PM
Very good question. I think it depends on what state a person is in when arrested. My son was in Nebraska and is considered a Violent Sexual Offender. He had 4 charges of possession of child pornography. They were young 15/16 year old girls nude. No sexually explicit pictures. His ex-wife reported that these pictures were on the computer and the police arrested him.

He is serving 5 years but will be out in 2 1/2. We are hoping they will give him parole in June 2006. I am praying they will.

He is on the register as a sex offender in Nebraska and if he gets to come to Arizona (if he gets parole) he will also have to register here for 10 yrs.

I don't understand how he can be labeled this way as he is not a person to hurt anyone physically. But that is Nebraska law.

kevinswife4ever
01-02-2006, 02:34 PM
OMG....why would the parole board give someone a 1year hit??? is it about there record? what if they have a juvenile record but what they are currently incarcerated for is there first adult charge? ISP denied my baby because of his criminal background now I am worried that his background could affect his parole?