My loved one told me they had an execution at Holman this evening. That saddens me beyond words. My thoughts & prayers go out to the family.

My baby always gets depressed when an "execution" takes place. :( I bet that SOB Culliver is feeling mighty good right about now! He is an evil, heartless and cruel man. It saddens me too Sutherndreamgirl, because it is all so senseless. I can't imagine what this mans loved ones must be going through right now. It's just so heartbreaking. My thoughts and prayers are with them as well. I want them to know that there ARE people who have compassion for them and their loved one, and believe that his life had value. Culliver is a murderer, plain and simple. He has NO right to turn his nose down on other's. He is no better. Shame on him! :mad:

Lisa

Bookworm, im sorry you feel this way about Culliver. I honestly can understand your point of view. However we must all look at what caused this to happen. I feel that as a victim in this terrible world, justice must be served in some way. Currently being setenced to the death penalty is one of them. Rather then looking at Culliver as the one responsible, you must look at the overall picture. This guy killed someone out of anger and hate, culliver was just doing his job. I can assure you that its one part of his job that isnt worth the 85K a year he makes. Ive talked to Culliver many times personally, and trust me he doesnt look forward to being held responsible for taking that last final step. I will tell you one thing, Culliver has made many strong improvements inside Holman, that has kept inmates that are trying to act right live in a better, cleaner, safer, and more rewarding enviroment. He is implementing many different things, that will keep this facility a better camp for everyone inmates and officers. You dont hear about all the crazy violence like we had back when Charlie Jones was warden or even before him. Trust me things are alot better now that Culliver is here, and if you sit and think about everything as a whole. Everyone is better off with him as the warden. Im apologize in advance if this offended you in anyway, however feel free to PM me with any additional questions or comments. Im open to discussion and accept any personal opionions or feelings on this subject.

Alright, taking a deep breath here. I apologize in advance, but I am a VERY passionate woman, with VERY strong feelings on this issue. So, please don't take it personally. Alright, here goes!


First of all, you call taking a life for a life "justice"? That is not "justice" it is MURDER! Plain and simple. America calls itself a "civilized" nation? It seems like you all haven't come that far since hanging people from trees or burning them at the stake! You call strapping a man to a gurney, and pumping poison through his veins, while his loved ones are forced to stand by helplessly, and WATCH "civilized"? Or wait a minute. There is always the electric chair or the gas chamber! Adolph Hitler preferred the latter! :blah:


You tell me what kind of a "justice system" inflicts pain on innocent women, men and children? What you death penalty proponents seem to forget, is that when you MURDER a death row inmate, it has a ripple effect! I have seen firsthand what it does to their loved ones. The pain and anguish that it causes them, and the emotional scars it leaves.

And the worst part of it all, is that they are the unseen victims. While the murder victim's family is overwhelmed with public support and sympathy, the mother whose son sits on death row, cries herself to sleep at night, all alone in her pain and suffering. She lives with the knowledge that one day her son will be taken from her, and that he will suffer a cruel and agonizing death, at the hands of the state, and then will be disposed of like so much trash!


And in the end, NO good comes from it! It does not change what happened. It does not bring the victim back from the dead. All it does is infects US, and turns us into the very thing that we despise, and it also hurts MORE innocent people. In Canada we do not have the death penalty, nor do we condemn people to a lifetime of rotting in prison. We give people opportunities for growth and change, and we give them second chances.


Not in the U.S. You either lock e'm up and throw away the key, or murder them, as if their lives had no more meaning than a cock roaches! Never mind that most of these men were abused as children, or suffer from some form of mental defect or illness. Who cares! And to think, most Americans consider themselves "christians". Hmm. My God taught love, forgiveness and understanding, not retribution. Maybe we have different Gods, because MY God believed that ALL life was precious, and that each and every one of us had a purpose to fulfil, and a reason for being.


And I am so tired of that "he's just doing his job" crap. You have NO idea! What a fricken cop out! Let's not forget that people CHOOSE their professions, and if I knew that my job required me to do something that I felt was wrong, I would be lookin for a new one! Most people wouldn't take a job that forced them to do something that they viewed as morally reprehensible. For example, an animal rights activist would take a job at a slaughterhouse! A feminist who believed that pornography demeaned and exploited woman, wouldn't apply for a position at an adult bookstore and so on!

You couldn't pay me enough to be the person who murders someone's son/daughter, brother/sister, lover/friend in cold blood. I couldn't look at myself in the mirror! What the HELL kind of job is that anyway? So, what do you do for a living"? "Oh I am a hit man for the United States government". "Oh, how nice! Isn't it wonderful to know that you are making a difference?". DISGUSTING!


If EVERYONE stood up and spoke out against this injustice, if everyone REFUSED to carry out a death sentence, the death penalty would cease to exist. It is because of blind conformity or ignorance, that human lives continue to be sacrficed. Would you feel the same way, if it was YOUR son sitting on "death row", awaiting his death at the hands of Mr Culliver? I doubt it!


And oh yeah, Mr Culliver REALLY cares about the inmates, and treats them kindly and humanely. Inmates in Segregation(like my baby) spend 23/7 in their cramped cells, without even a BOOK to read! He won't let them have BOOKS! Uh, wait a minute here. Shouldn't reading be ENCOURAGED? He won't give Steven a transfer, to another prison that offers programs that would benefit him. He allows them ONE visit a MONTH with their families/loved ones. Again, shouldn't he be ENCOURAGING the inmates to maintain strong ties with their families? Studies have shown that the more support that an inmate has when he is released back into society, the better his chances are of succeeding on the "outside".

I could go on and on here. I have no respect for Culliver whatsoever. And according to my own spiritual beliefs, there is NO place in heaven for him, as long as he continues to participate in the taking of human life, and refuses to take responsibility for it or repent for what he has done.

Oh, and one last thing. You mentioned that the inmate took a life out of "anger and hate". Um, yeah. Isn't that the true motive behind the death penalty? Revenge? The inmate is demonized, and stripped of his humanity, so that it becomes easier to kill him/her. No one ever thinks about the pain and sorrow that his/her death will cause those who loved him/her, and the life altering affect that it will have on their lives.


That is my two cents. I know that there are other's out here that agree with my opinion, and that also dislike Mr Culliver. I don't know if they will have the courage to stand up, but I hope so!


Lisa

PS: Of course the level of violence has gone down! Keeping people locked up in one man cells 23/7, and not allowing them contact with fellow inmates, is a good way to prevent fights from breaking out! Too bad that avoidance won't teach them how to deal with their anger, or resolve conflict. What are they gonna do when they are released? Go live in caves! :mad:

I need to be fair, so I wanted to add this! I visited my honey for the first time last month, and to be honest, I was quite impressed at how professional, polite and helpful the staff was! I had heard that they were REALLY uptight and strict, and picked on every little thing etc. But the two officers on duty that day were super nice, and very fair and reasonable. Pretty laidback and easygoing. So kudos to them! :thumbsup:

They treated us all with respect and dignity, and I did have a wonderful visit. So all in all, it wasn't as bad as I had anticipated it would be. And my problem is with Mr Culliver in particular! I did not intend to make widespread generalizations. Steven has told me(and I have seen for myself!) that there are officer's who do in fact seem to care about the welfare of the inmates, and treat them with the dignity and respect that EVERY human being is deserving of, regardless of their crime. I just wanted to be fair!

Lisa

Just doing his job? I've heard that before...

Sickening

Yeah, lets get out the Gravol! According to my sweetie, he takes great pride in his role as "executioner" and it is considered an "honor" to be on the "execution team". Now, THAT is nauseating! :blah:

Lisa

Well, I totally understand and agree in many ways with your statements. What I meant about the death penalty was a bit different than what you stated above. I honestly dont agree with it either. This was my 2nd time seeing an execution and the atmosphere inside the prison is very strange the entire week before the execution. I believe many officers and inmates feel terrible about the death penalty. I wish that they would just give life w/o. I mean they usually make them stay a minumum of 10 years or more any way. I just dont get it. It was very hard when i left at 2pm that day seeing him with his family sitting on visitation and knowing that in less than 4 hrs he would be gone. Sometimes I wonder why I do what i do for a career. I wish I would have made some different choices. But with that attitude you have towards this terrible type of punishment. I hope you are making your voice heard where it really counts!. You seem like a very intelligent individual and I look forward to hearing for you again. Take care everyone and god bless. (BTW I agree with the fact that if Culliver doesnt like doing the execution he should just quit. I know he is trying to advance beyond warden so maybe you wont have to worry about him someday. When i mentioned many of the good changes he has made. I was mainly referring to Population. In segeragation, its always pretty much gonna suck for inmates. Its designed to be like that. Its mainly because they want to make it as tough as possible so that inmates in population wont want to go there and will try to act right in pop. But for some reason many just cant deal with the fact they must live with 120 others in a dorm. Which i can understand but sometimes they just gotta suck it up and deal with it. There are so many benefits of being in pop vs. seg. I know if I were locked up I would make every possible effort to act right and do whatever it takes to get me out of prison. Even if I had Life without. I would be working on my case trying to get life and work on getting paroled. I see it happen everyday with other inmates, so i know its possible. Now from a death row aspect. They really do treat them pretty good considering there living enviroment kinda blows. But many of them do get out of there cells and get the oppurtunity to go to the law library where they dont just work on there cases they play games like checkers, dominoes and many more. So its not exactly hell. Anyway again take care and good luck with your friends, sons, fathers, husbands cases.

Bookworm1, No one wins in an execution. The victims family lost a love one. The person who comitted the crime has a grieving family as well. Even though God is a MERCIFUL, FORGIVING, and LOVING God, He is a JUST God as well. He says in HIS Word that we must obey the laws of the land. He also says to use wisdom. I'm not saying that I agree with the death penalty. But one has to take into consideration where were the rights of the murdered victim? Also one must take into consideration the person who comitted the crime, was more than likely a victim as well. I strongly believe in second chances and forgiveness. The death penalty is not a win, win situation, it's a sad situation all the way around.

The statement you made about there being no place for people like Mr. Culliver in heaven is so wrong. Only God will determine who makes heaven or hell their home. I do not think Mr. Culliver has the pleasure of having someone executed, nor do I think he goes to work with the mentality of who getting executed today. Only God knows what is in Mr. Culliver's mind and heart. And who is to say he has not repented. Bible says we should all repent and ask for forgivess on a daily basis. Only God knows and Mr. Culliver. I'm not on either side this is just my opinion. It sure has been an interesting topic. There will always be two sides, one for it and one against the death penalty. We all need grace and mercy from God.

I'm just wondering if anyone knows of any PUBLIC statements that the warden of Holman has made regarding the death penalty or the execution process. I dunno. I find it hard to believe that anyone could find anything to be happy or proud about in an execution REGARDLESS of how they feel about the death penalty, but maybe I'm just naive. . .

No one wins in an execution?

What about the victims? Who won when they were murdered?

I see a lot of you on this board weep for a condemned person, but never for the victim. That is just asinine.

My son accidently shot his wife. A gun that misfired for the state twice. No one saw it. There was no evidence of a prior violence/abuse. He is serving 24 years for an accident. No one seemed concerned about the truth, just "winning" in an adversarial judical system.

Nolongerchained:

My first question to you is, what are you doing on PTO? :confused: This is a place where people who have loved ones in prison(including those on "death row") come to find support, understanding, and friendship. There are NO shortage of organizations and on-line support groups for those who have been the victim's of crime. This is not one of them!

I don't mean to sound callous, BUT there is also NO shortage of people to weep for the victims of crime and their loved ones. They are often overwhelmed by the outpouring of sympathy and support from the community. Yet very FEW people feel any compassion towards those who have a son or daughter, brother or sister, friend or lover, on the "row" and even fewer still feel any for these men and women, who regardless of their crimes, are STILL human beings. So save it, alright!

You wanna know what I consider assanine? Society's stubborn refusal to take responsibility for OUR role in the prevalence of violent crime, and the ever burgeoning prison population. It seems that all of you so-called "victim's rights advocates" only care about one thing. And that is REVENGE. Most of you are so filled with bitterness and rage that you can not see the forest from the trees!

jmbaby:

Uh, which part of "thou shalt not kill" did you misunderstand? It is pretty clear, and there isn't much room for interpretation. Jesus spent his time on earth with the so called "dregs" of society, that nobody else gave a damn about. The ones that most people believed were unworthy of love and compassion. My favorite biblical story is the one in which Jesus stops the execution of a prostitue, who is about to be stoned to death by a group of self rightous town's people, by declaring "He without sin cast the first stone". Culliver is human, just like the rest of us. What gives HIM the right to stand in judgment of another? What gives ANY of us that right? Like we are all so perfect?

And in my opinion, there is more to repenting than just saying "I'm sorry". One has to MEAN it, and if one is truly sorry for their actions, and recognizes that their actions were wrong, then it only stands to reason that they will NOT repeat them. That is like a man who gets angry with his wife one day, and hauls off and hits her. The next day he gets down on one knee, presents her with a beautiful bouquet of roses, and apologizes profusely, tears streaming down his face. She forgives him. A week later, she does something to upset or anger him again, and he turns around and punches her, breaking her nose. He visits her in the hospital, bearing gifts, and again begs her forgiveness. And so on and so on and so. It's an old story! If he were TRULY sorry he would seek help, and NEVER do it again!

The FBI defines a serial killer as someone who has killed three or more people over a period of time. Doesn't Culliver fit that definition?? I don't give a rat's behind if it is legal! Just because something is legal, or not illegal for that matter, doesn't necessarily make it right! It isn't illegal to poke fun at someone who has a physical or mental handicap, but it doesn't mean that it isn't wrong, and morally repugnant right?

It used to be legal for a man to beat his wife and children, because they were considered property, and therefore had no rights under the law. It used to be legal to own slaves. Does that mean that it was ever right in a moral sense? NO! Ever heard the saying "If a million people believe a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing"? Our government(which makes the laws) and the courts that uphold them, are made up of people, just like you and I, with their own biases and prejudices, and personal agendas! Politicians tend to follow public opinion! Sadly, their main concern is not "doing the right thing" but appeasing the public, so that they can be re-elected! They are basically cowards! If the majority of Americans were to decide tomorrow that "capital punishment" was wrong, I guarantee you it would soon be a thing of the past!

Nothing can bring the victim back, or fill the void that his/her death has left in the hearts and lives of their loved one. That is sad, and my heart goes out to them. BUT, we CAN prevent the suffering of MORE innocent people! We couldn't control his/her actions, BUT we CAN control how we respond. No one is saying that the men on "death row" are qualified for sainthood, or that they don't deserve to be punished. But we have the option of life without parole. We do not need to kill them, and in the process, lower ourselves to their level. If we kill them, how can we look in the mirror ,and tell ourselves that we are better? How can we teach our children that murder is wrong, that ALL human life has value, and then turn around and support the death penalty? :hmm:

And here is a question for those who fancy themselves champions of victims rights! What about those cases where the victims families are oppossed to "capital punishment" and do not want the perpetrator to be murdered by the state, as a form of punishment? I guess you only support victims rights when their feelings, beliefs and desires happen to coincide with your own, right? :rolleyes:

I have made it CLEAR to my loved ones, that if I were to be murdered, I would want them not only to oppose the death penalty, BUT to ask the judge for leniency. To do anything less, would go against everything I stood for in life, and would not honor my spirit. Of course, this is a striclty hypothetical situation, because we in Canada, do not believe in killing people. But still!

And something else to consider. A lot of "death row" inmates spend many years on the "row" and in the process have time to reflect on what they've done and the pain that they have caused others, and come to regret it. People DO change, but by killing them we sqaunder any and all hope that this change can occur. I know that I am NOT the same person I was when I was sixteen, or eighteen, or twenty four for that matter!

Cs loves Jw:

Ya know I dig ya girl, but I have to disagree with you this time around! :) One would like to think that nobody could possibly take pride in or feel good about an execution, but the mobs of people that gather outside the prison when a man/woman is set to be murdered, and celebrate the death of a fellow human being, is evidence that there are in fact cruel and heartless individuals who believe that it is in fact something to be happy about. It makes me feel sick to my stomach! :blah:

If they don't have compassion for the victim of this state sanctioned act of violence, then at least have some for their loved ones, who are innocent of any wrongdoing, and who are guilty only of loving their loved one unconditionally, which in my opinion, is admirable.

I did hear warden Culliver talk about the execution process on "Lockup: Inside Holman" and he seemed very indifferent. The fact that he was talking about the cold and calculated murder of another human being seemed to be lost on him, and it appeared that he was relaying what he'd had for breakfast that morning, or what he and his wife had eaten for supper the night before. He talked about snuffing out another human life, as though he were talking about having killed a cockroach! It was sickening, and made me want to be sick!

In my opinion, a person that can take a life over and over again, without so much as blinking an eye, and then return to his normal life, must be devoid of conscience or feelings. In a word, he must be a sociopath. If he did in fact feel remorse for what he had done, he would stop. Period. End of story!

rkered:

I am so sorry about your son. :( Twenty four years is extreamely harsh, given the fact that there was no history of prior abuse, and it was accidental. You are so right. Prosecutors are often portrayed as champions of the underdog, people who have dedicated their careers to getting justice for victims and their families. But many of them do not care about what is just and fair. It is just a game to them. They just want to be on the winning side! Even in cases where a defendant has been proven innocent after the fact, prosecutors are often reluctant to give them a public apology, and admit that they were wrong. My thoughts and prayers are with you both.


And to those of you who have loved ones sitting on "death row" my heart goes out to you as well. We live in such an unforgiving and cruel world. It is so very sad. :(


Lisa

Wow...I didn't mean to start a debate...but an interesting one it has become. I'm sure I may get slammed over this...but just my humble opinion. First, with this being the forum for Holman, I was simply letting those know of the execution that had taken place there. This is where our loved ones are...& the things that happen there does effect them. It wasn't meant to be disrespectful or minimizing of the victim (or victim's family). Anytime a life has ended...reguardless of whose life it is...(or even how it's taken) it's sad. No matter what one has done in life....that someone has family...people that love & care for them. A mother, father, siblings, children, friends, etc...No one "wins" with loss...by anyone's hand. Secondly, welcome HolmanCFCO1. It is nice to be able to hear your views as well. Obviously you have an interest in what we (the loved ones of those incarcerated at Holman) think, feel, & go through...or you wouldn't be here. You may even be able to shed some light on unanswered questions, thoughts, & concerns we have. You have personal insight being as you're there... day in, day out. Keep in mind this is a forum for the families & loved ones of those incarcerated...a place for them to share, advise, support, & vent. Some may be a little leary....but it is an open forum. I have to say that with my visits to Holman, I have personally been treated with respect. There has been topics on PTO in reguards to CO's. I look at people for who they are & how they carry themselves as an individual. There's good & bad anywhere you go (as well as in every profession). I don't judge people (I may disagree...but don't judge). I have made mistakes in my life...we all have. I have offended as well as been victimized. I have learned that you don't truly have control over anyone's actions but your own. I do believe in forgiveness...although it's not easy at times. How can I expect to be forgiven...if I can't forgive of others?
As far as the Warden...I have never met him personally, but I'm sure he does have a tough job. That doesn't mean I agree with everything. All I know is what I have seen aired on the MSNBC Lock-Up series. Although that was supposed to be "informative"...it's TV...."entertainment". I know that there's alot that was taped that wasn't shown. They crop & edit...show what they want. Bookworm, you can relate to that...you know how you felt Steven was portrayed...but you know a different side of him. Let's give the Warden the same benefit. My fella has never had any personal dealings with Warden Culliver (I think he's only seen or actually talked to him a few times)...so I personally can't say anything. Someone asked in a previous post if the Warden had made any public statements pertaining to the subject of the death penalty? I have the show taped...there was a statement made. "There's never a good way to have to take a life. The side bar to that is the individual that is being put to death...took a life. I look at it as the general public of the State of Alabama actually carrying out the execution, I just happen to be the tool in place to do be able to do that. If I refuse to do that...then I'm refusing to carry out the law I said I'd uphold".
Bookworm, you have so much passion & I love that about you. Of course when you have a personal interest...it intensifies that passion. We all have to stand for what we believe in. Not everyone will agree...but we're all entitled to our opinions & beliefs. Our voice is the most powerful tool we have...so many are afraid to use it.
Let's try not to be judgemental, but rather supportive. Respect the views of others...even if we don't share them. We all have a common bond that has brought us here. I am thankful for the support I have received...& hope to be able to extend the same in return.

Sutherndreamgirl:

Thanks for the compliment! Some people like the fact that I am so passionate about what I believe in, and that I speak my mind(my man is one of them!) but other's are put off by it. I don't mean to offend or hurt anyone, I am just being honest about how I feel. Those of you who know me on a personal level, know why I feel so strongly about this issue. I do tend to get rather emotional when discussing this subject, and I must admit, that I have NO respect for those who support the death penalty, and even less respect for those who are involved in carrying out. I am usually a VERY tolerant person, with a live and live attitude, but when it comes to this, I am unable to see the "other side". I just can't. That is a shortcoming that I am more than willing to admit to! I am human, and therefore imperfect, as much as I wish that I were!

Whenever an "execution" is carried out at Holman, it affects EVERYONE(inmates and staff). I know that Steven has a hard time dealing with it. He shares my views, and has told Culliver to his face that he thinks that he is a "cold-blooded murderer" that "has no right to judge other's, because he is no better". I am so proud of him, whenever he stands up to Culliver. That takes a lot of courage. :thumbsup:

Culliver's statement seems like a cop out to me. He's just passing the buck, and REFUSING to take ANY responsibility for his own actions. I have said this before, and I will say it again! People CHOOSE their professions! He KNEW BEFORE he applied for the position, that he would be required to be involved in the taking of human life. No one forced him to accept the position, and no one forces him to continue doing what he is doing. He must like what he does, or he wouldn't be there!

Sorry, but I have NO empathy for this man AT ALL. He has a choice. The inmates on "death row" do not! Also, as Warden, he has a lot of power. For example, if he felt a particular rule was unfair, he DOES have the power to change it. For instance, if he wanted to, he COULD allow inmates in segregation to have access to books. He COULD allow them more frequent visits with their families and loved ones and so on.

Now, I understand that segregation was not intended to be pleasant. However, it seems counterproductive to ME, to deny the inmates the opportunity to do something constructive, and to better themselves, especially since the vast majority of them will be released back into society at some point. There is no logic behind this assanine rule! He just wants to make it harder on the inmates, as if their lives weren't hard enough already! He LIKES to be in control, he LIKES having power over other's.

I just feel that the "I'm just doing my job" excuse is an old and tired one! He talks to the inmates about accepting responsibility for THEIR actions, but doesn't seem to be able to do it himself!

If revenge were a good enough reason to kill, our prisons would be empty! If anyone ever had a reason to kill another human being, it was Steven. After all of those years of abuse his step mother inflicted on him, it is understandable that he snapped! Yet, the law determined that he was wrong to take a life, and he was punished for it. They showed him NO mercy! Revenge was NOT a good enough excuse!

I would just LOVE to see a hitman working for the mafia for example, get up and argue "but your honor, I was just doing what I was instructed and paid to do! It was nothin personal". What a joke!

I don't get with the whole "poor Warden Culliver, he has such a hard job" thing either. Sorry! Cry me a river! I would rather work as a janitor, scrubbing floors and cleaning toilets, and earning minimum wage, then as a professional hitman who works for the United States government! I may be poor, but at least I could look at myself in the mirror!

I did not form my opinion about Mr Culliver based on the television segment, but it certainly reinforced my negative opinion of the man. He DOES have a personal vendetta against MY man, and goes out of his way to make life harder for him. No matter how hard Steven tries, Culliver REFUSES to give him any second chances! Culliver doesn't like Steven, because Steven isn't afraid to stand up to him!

I agree that we shouldn't judge people by their profession, and that we should treat them each as individuals. There ARE good corrections officer's at Holman, who want to make a difference, and in fact DO make a difference! There are also "bad apples". But like you said, there is good and bad in EVERY profession and EVERY walk of life. I was impressed with the polite and professional attitude of the staff I encountered during my visit, and I think that they deserve a big pat on the back! :thumbsup:

Lisa

Oh my goodness! Who would have thought that all of us crazy ladies would get so fired up and feisty? I love it! There are a lot of strong people with strong opinions who post regularly on this board, and as long as we can maintain respect and support for each other, then I think its good to have healthy debates like this and to vent our frustrations about what WE think is wrong with the system. I understand that our viewpoints are going to vary somewhat, but there is NO need for personal attacks or rudeness, and that's mostly directed towards NoLongerChained, because, hey, its just not cool to call people asinine.

I don't want anyone to think that I was taking up for the warden or condoning his actions or attitude, but I think Suthrn was right when she said that we know Lockup isn't totally unbiased and that basically things are edited to create whatever effect the producers are seeking. I am one of those people who likes to give people the benefit of the doubt and thinks that humans are innately good, so its just hard for me to wrap my mind around the idea that this man spends his time around the guys on death row, gets to know them by name, and then is all smiles and sunshine when it is time to murder them. I dunno. I get varying viewpoints from my man, even, because some days I hear that the warden is fair and some days I hear that he is an a*shole. I guess maybe I just have some naive hope that the man who holds the life of the man I love in his hands might have a true sense of compassion. Wishful thinking, probably, but I still hope, nonetheless.

I really, really have an urge to speak my mind about the death penalty in general, but I'll refrain for now. I try not to divulge too many personal details on PTO, but suffice to say that anyone who looked back through my old posts could probably figure out why this is a hell of a sore subject for me, and if I start ranting, I might go on for days. :-)

This is a very much "heated" topic.. I found an article from 2006 which I am sure a lot of you have read http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15952548/

My opinion of DR is this: There are punishments for our crimes on this earth and even though God forgives all and sees all sins as one, unfortunately here on earth we have our "judicial" system. I watched a documentary the other night of a woman convicted of killing her baby and sentenced to die. She was in for over 6 years before she was found to be not guilty and she walked out. No apology, no money compensation, nothing...I then learned that it cost more to execute a person than it does to leave them in prison for the rest of their natural born lives.

I have always been FOR the DP until recently. I feel if someone is that evil to commit the crime let them rot in jail and at the same time if they are innocent like many who have been freed then they won't die for a crime they didn't commit.

I truly believe that it is better to leave them there and let them think of their crime for the rest of their lives. I am sorry but there are a lot of criminals out there that don't care, are not remorseful and have no compassion to the victims family. By being in prison maybe they can turn their lives around and seek God.

That is my :twocents:

Just throwing in another 2 cents from me (I just couldn't resist -- I HAD to chime in!), but I think assuming that everyone who is on death row is evil is really generalizing and just not at all accurate. Folks, the death penalty is ARBITRARY. A person who kills 15 might get life without, and a person who is in the wrong place at the wrong time while a single murder is being committed could get the death penalty. Often times, its simply a question of race or financial status as to whether you are convicted of a capital crime, and I have a hard time trusting any system that can't truly say that everyone is represented equally. A lot of good people are on the row, and a lot of bad people are walking free. I just think its wrong on so many levels to lump everyone into this awful "evil" category just because of their sentence. And letting people "rot" in prison? I have to disagree on this, because like it or not, they are HUMAN and they deserve more than being thrown in a cage and having the higher-ups throw away the key. We don't even treat animals that poorly. I think there should always be a such thing as a second chance. Stephanie, you are right about one thing: spending several years in a prison can have a drastic effect on people and can cause them to realize things about themselves and to change in ways that we on the outside can't comprehend. As reasonable people who recognize that this level of change IS possible, don't we owe it to ourselves and our society and the human race in general to try to make the most we can out of each and every life before we relegate them to the darkest corner of the deepest dungeon? Its just really easy for people who DON'T KNOW and don't WANT to know that these men and women are real people with real families and real feelings to lump them all into this "crazy psycho killer" category and just be done with this, but that's not the reality of the situation. A HUGE chunk of the people on death row are just normal people with abnormal circumstances and BIG mistakes. The next time you hear about someone being executed, think to yourself, "There but for the grace of God go I", because tomorrow you could find yourself in the exact same situation.

Bookworm1, thou shall not kill is plain and simple, THOU SHALL NOT KILL! There's no need for long explanations. And yes I know about how Jesus was among the poor, prostitutes, the worst of the worst. He even broke bread with them. God loved loved them and he never forsaked them, but he hated the sin. He showed them love when no one else did. Then and even now HE is so ever forgiving. But like I said God is a JUST God too! We all have sinned and come short of his glory, Romans 3:23. Even though God has forgiven us of our sins, there is still the consequences of our actions. God is a good God and he does not "punish" us but rather we pay for our sin. You are making Mr. Culliver sound as if he enjoys executions. As if he drives to work everyday wondering who will be next to die. You do not know what he is thinking or feeling. I am not defending him because I am sure he is no saint, none of us are. To call him a murderer, you are not judging him? Did you not quote John 8:7? " He that is without sin cast the first stone." That is what you are doing, so if you are without sin then you have your right to judge Mr. Culliver and the whole world if you wish.
I do feel compassion for the families that have a loved one on deathrow. I can not imagine that for every second of everyday they know their loved one has a date where they will be executed. But just as you think he has rights to live, where were the rights of the murdered victim? The death penalty is a very touchy subject. There will always be a much heated debate over it.

jmbaby:

It DOES in fact sound as though you are defending Mr. Culliver! I didn't know that his publicist frequented the board. Whatever. I am not going to change your mind, and you will never change my mind, so I suposse it is pointless to continue to argue.

Let me get this straight though, just for my own peace of mind. It is wrong for ME to judge Culliver's actions, because I am not perfect, BUT it is perfectly acceptable for the men and women on the jury, to decide that their fellow human being is so dispicable, so irredeamable, that he should be put to death? And what of Mr Culliver? I am being critical of his actions, I am NOT(nor would I EVER) saying that his life has no value, or that he should die. As much as I loathe the man, HE is still a human being, with people that love him, and even at my angriest, I ALWAYS try to remember that. If he were to be diagnosed with cancer tomorrow, and I had the power to save his life, I WOULD. Why? Aside from the fact that I believe that all life has value, and that I would NEVER punish his wife and children for HIS actions, because I believe that God is the one who created life, and therefore it is not up to ME to decide when a life should end.

You make me sound like this horrible person, who doesn't care about the victim's of crime and their feelings. That is nonsense! I am a sane, reasonable, intelligent woman, and I agree that there should and NEEDS to be consequences to our actions, HOWEVER I believe that if we want to be able to call ourselves a "civilized, compassionate" society, than there need to be limits! You make it sound as though the ONLY way to achieve justice for victims, is to kill their killer! That is nonsence! There are a lot of people out there whose loved ones were victims of crime, that do NOT support "capital punishment". These are people that understand that it will NOT bring their loved ones back!

If the only way to acheive "justice" is to inflict on the individual what he inflicted on his victim, than what do we do in cases of serial killer's whose crimes often involve torture, mutilation and even cannibalism? Do we turn around and do the same to them? Two wrongs will NEVER equal a right.

Most of the men in prison(even those on "death row") are NOT "monsters". Many of them have never known love. It is sad that people such as yourself do not seem to care WHY people do what they do(ie. poverty, mental illness, drug addiction, abuse, desperation etc). No one is born "evil", someone or something makes them that way!

I am in love with a man who is serving a life sentence for murder, and while most people look at me like I've lost my mind when I say this, he is one of the kindest, gentlest souls that I have ever known, and behind that tough exterior lies a good heart. All he ever wanted was to be loved. It is easy to label these men "monsters" and lock them up and forget about them. Out of sight, out of mind right? But I am afraid that it just isn't that simple. One would THINK that someone on PTO(who has a loved one in prison) would understand that, but I guess not.

Lisa

Let me ask you this, "If someone was to come along and kill your kid's, would you be happy to just let them have life without" Would that be good enough for you? To know that they killed your kid's and they are in prison Or would they then deserve to be put on Death Row? answer me that please! Because I for sure, would want to kill them myself! and if they were just put in prison then I would not Quit until they were dead, so sorry if you all end up thinking i'm a bitch, but damn! someone hurt my family and I wouldn't STOP! until they were dead! I really don't think you people can turn around and say you would be happy with them serving life or life without because you would be talking out your BUMS!

estranged emma:

I think that people have a natural tendency to project THEIR own feelings onto other's. There are in fact people who have lost loved ones, who have spoken out against their loved one's killer being put to death. I guess that some people just have a greater capacity for forgiveness than other's.

I honestly don't know how I would feel, if someone were to kill someone that I loved. At first, I might want them dead. But I think I would eventually come to the realization that killing him/her wouldn't bring my loved one back. And regardless of how much I hated that individual, what about their mom and dad? What did THEY do to deserve having their loved one taken from them? As a mother who knew the pain of losing a child, I don't think that I would want to inflict that same pain on another.

I can easily turn the tables, and ask "how would you feel if it was YOUR child who had committed a crime, and was facing a possible death sentence"? I bet that your perspective would change, real quick! So, it works BOTH ways girl!

Lisa

Bookworm1, God himself said to obey the laws of the land. I am sure there are a lot of men and women on death row who should not be there and yet those who should. But if one of my own children comitted a crime and/or murdered somebody, as much as it would hurt me, wrong is still wrong. If they were on death row it would slowly kill me.

I do not think you are a horrible person. You are very passionate at what you believe and that is your right. You're so right people are not born evil. Things or people along the way have destroyed their lives.

I can only pray that I do not ever have to experience the death of a loved one or to have a loved kill someone else. We can go on and on on this subject, but the bottom line is that GOD is the final judge. Nobody will escape HIS judgement.

Bookworm1 I do sincerely wish you and your loved one well.

I just wanted to share this heart warming, touching story with everyone here on this board. It was originally posted by another PTO member(Valentina), on the "Capital Punishment" Forum. This proves all of those folks who want(who NEED) to believe that all of the men on "death row" are "monsters" with NO redeaming qualities, WRONG! Bless this man's heart! I am so glad that his final wish came true! May he rest in peace!

Lisa


Executed Man's last request honored: Pizza for Homeless

By Ashley Fantz
CNN

(CNN) -- Hundreds of homeless people in Nashville, Tennessee, ate well Wednesday evening -- all in the name of a man who the state put to death just hours earlier.

Philip Workman, 53, requested that his final meal be a vegetarian pizza donated to any homeless person located near Riverbend Maximum Security Institution.

He was executed there at 2 a.m. ET Wednesday. (Watch witnesses describe his last moments )

But prison officials refused to honor his request, saying that they do not donate to charities.

That apparently upset a few people willing to pay for and deliver a lot of pies themselves.

Homeless shelters across Nashville were inundated with donated pizzas all Wednesday. (Watch homeless feast on piles of pizza )

"I was like, 'Wow, Jesus!' " said Marvin Champion, an employee of Nashville's Rescue Mission, which provides overnight shelter, food and assistance to more than 800 homeless people a night.

"I used to be homeless, so I know how rough it gets. I seen some bad times -- not having enough food, the cupboards are bare. But we got pizza to feed enough people for awhile," Champion said.

"This really shows the people here that someone out there thought of them."

$1,200 worth of pies
Donna Spangler heard about Workman's request and immediately called her friends. They all pitched in for the $1,200 bill to buy 150 pizzas, which they sent to the Rescue Mission.

"Philip Workman was trying to do a good deed and no one would help him," said the 55-year-old who recruited a co-worker to help her make the massive delivery Wednesday evening.

"I knew my husband would have a heart attack -- I put some of it on the credit card. But I thought we'll find a way to pay for them later," she said. "I just felt like I had to do something positive."

Spangler wasn't the only person to place an order in Workman's name.

The president of the People for Ethical Treatment of Animals read a news story about the prison denying the inmate's last request and ordered 15 veggie pizzas sent to the Rescue Mission Wednesday morning.

"Workman's act was selfless, and kindness to all living beings is a virtue," said PETA President Ingrid Newkirk.

Not far away, 17 pizzas arrived at Nashville's Oasis Center, a shelter that helps about 260 teenagers in crisis. By 9 p.m. ET, more pizzas had arrived, said executive director Hal Cato.

"We talked to the kids and they understand what this is tied to and they know that this man [Workman] wanted to do something to point out the problems of homelessness."

When Workman robbed a Wendy's in Memphis, Tennessee, in 1981, he was a strung-out cocaine addict looking for a way to pay for his next high, he has said.

He was homeless at the time. Workman was convicted of shooting and killing Memphis Police Lt. Ronald Oliver during the robbery.

Many of the pizzas ordered in Workman's name were delivered anonymously, but the first 17 at Oasis Center came from a Minneapolis, Minnesota, radio station that devoted much of its morning show time talking about Workman's request.

"They were upset about it," said Cato.

He plans to call other homeless shelters in Nashville Thursday and share the pies. "They should be able to benefit from this, too," he said.

Cliff Tredway, the director of public relations for the Rescue Mission, said it's more than pizzas that helped that shelter.

"It's the story of a guy whose execution translated into a generous act," he said. "It's people donating to other people they don't know.

"It's about a group of people who society often writes off getting a pizza party today."

estranged emma:

I think that people have a natural tendency to project THEIR own feelings onto other's. There are in fact people who have lost loved ones, who have spoken out against their loved one's killer being put to death. I guess that some people just have a greater capacity for forgiveness than other's.

I honestly don't know how I would feel, if someone were to kill someone that I loved. At first, I might want them dead. But I think I would eventually come to the realization that killing him/her wouldn't bring my loved one back. And regardless of how much I hated that individual, what about their mom and dad? What did THEY do to deserve having their loved one taken from them? As a mother who knew the pain of losing a child, I don't think that I would want to inflict that same pain on another.

I can easily turn the tables, and ask "how would you feel if it was YOUR child who had committed a crime, and was facing a possible death sentence"? I bet that your perspective would change, real quick! So, it works BOTH ways girl!

Lisa

Yeah, it does work both way's but that does not mean that they should be able to get away with doing such a thing in the first place! If a loved one of mine commited a crime so henious and disgraceful then just because they are a loved one of mine does not mean that they should be EXCUSED for what they have done! what goes around comes back around! why the hell should we feel sorry for someone who didn't think twice about going out and killing one or ten people? what right do they have? NONE! the day that they killed that person(s) all their rights went out the window! because that poor person(s) is now dead! So, why should they be treated any different? I'm not saying that every person that is on DR should be on there, it's far from that but what I am saying the DR inmates that deserve to be on DR should deal the cards that they are dealt with, that's just the way I feel! if someone goes out and rapes and kills 20 kid's then why the hell should they not be put to death? to be quite honest with you someone of that category is getting it easy by being put to death, in all truth I feel that someone like that should be put in a locked room with all the kid's parents and let them deal with that person!

Yeah, I get what you are saying, Emma, but the thing is, in Alabama, a crime only has to be "heinous, atrocious, or cruel" in order to qualify for the death penalty. In my mind, EVERY death is atrocious. So why, then does the lady who throws her baby off a bridge get 10 years and the man who is simply an accomplice during the commission of a murder gets the death penalty? Even if I morally agreed with the death penalty for the worst of the worst (which I don't), it still doesn't fly because, again, its just so ARBITRARY. I'm not saying that if someone killed one of my children, I wouldn't want to take some OUTRAGEOUS revenge, but that's why vigilante justice is not permissible in this country. A sentence that huge in scope deserves much review and careful consideration and clear headed thinking, and that's not the reality of the death penalty in the US.

Bookworm...thanks for sharing that (it gave me goosebumps). I live 45 minutes south of Nashville. The news coverage of Workman has been top news for the past several years now (on & off)...all the way up to his execution; but I wasn't aware of this story (haven't had much time for TV lately). I am very familiar with the Rescue Mission & The Oasis Center (I lived in a similar center in Nashville when I was 16)...so it does "hit close to home". I truly do believe that Workman was very sincere in his actions (& has been for quite some years...not just trying to save his ass)...I do believe he found God & accepted Jesus Christ into his heart as his personal saviour. I believe he had nothing more to gain from his last request (gesture) other than trying to give of himself...in the only way he could. What an impact he made...& the following was amazing. I wonder...how many of the ones that helped, donated, contributed...or even were on the receiving end...views of Mr. Workman were previously? Probably like those of many...all you know, hear, & see is what the news portrays...a "cold blooded murderer"? Just another example that there are good people in our prison systems (as well as in the "free world")...that have made horrible mistakes...but that doesn't mean they're a horrible people. I tell my children all the time. A split second decision can change your life (& the lives of others)...& it's final.

The way the death penalty is applied is capricious at best. It is true that someone who is at the scene of the crime or kills someone in the commission of another felony may get the death penalty, while someone else who killed a child in a ruthless manner (not an accident) gets life. There is a guy in Nevada who raped and killed a seven year old and the prosecutor never tried to get the death penalty because the suspect agreed early on to take a deal for Life without. So he has the same sentence as my husband, whose crime, believe me, was NOTHING like that. They also threatened my husband with the death penalty and he took a plea bargain for life, so death row does not necessarily house the so-called worst of the worst. It is sometimes only a matter of what the prosecutor can get. I am against the dp for any reason, but for people who think the ones on death row are the "worst", you are wrong.

Respectfully,
V

estranged emma:

Trust me when I tell you, that you are speaking from your head NOT your heart! If you had a loved one on "death row" OR if you took the time to get to know one of these men as people, your opinion most likely would change. I have a VERY hard time believing for example, that if your son or daughter committed a crime, and was sentenced to death, that you would just shrug and say "oh well. He/she took a life, now it is time for his/her life to be taken from her". You brought that child into the world, and a mother's natural instinct is to protect her child, and keep them safe. The love that one feels for their child is very powerful, and can withstand even the most dire of circumstances. The love that a mother feels for her son on "death row" is no more or less than the love that the mother of a murder victim felt for her own child. Her anguish and her pain, over losing her child, is no less.



I have known men and women on "death row" and was surprised at just how "normal" they really were! They were human beings, with hopes and dreams, passions, convictions, fears, and people that loved them. Despite their crimes, most were good, decent people deep down, who had made terrible mistakes, that they had come to regret. They were not "mosters" but people just like you and I, who had done both good and bad in their lives, but whom unfortunately, were only remembered for the bad.


Many of them suffered from mental illness that went untreated, had suffered some form of abuse, had endured traumatic childhoods, and had lived through experiences that continue to haunt them to this day. They WERE deserving of compassion. Often times, the more we get to know them, and the more we learn of their past, the easier it becomes to understand how they ended up going down the path in life that they did. It becomes easier to empathize with them, and it becomes clear to you, that we as a society, are partly responsible for the adults that these once innocent, beautiful children, who were full of potential, came to be.



I get sooo angry when I think about what my Steven endured as a child. :mad:
The cruel and unspeakable abuse that his so-called "stepmother" inflicted on him, while his father, who had a duty to protect his children, who were not able to defend themselves, turned a blind eye to it all. When he showed up for school covered in bruises, where the FUCK were WE? When he had to be hospitalized, because she had beaten him so bad, where the FUCK were we? When he was thrown out into the streets at the tender age of fifteen, when he FINALLY worked up the courage to fight back, and didn't know where his last meal was coming from, or whether he would have a roof over his head that night, to shelter him from the cold, where the fuck were WE?

There are certainly NO shortage of people around now, who want to turn their noses down at him, who want to wag their fingers at him, who want to punish him. Where were they then? No where to be found!


Phew! Excuse me. I get a little emotional sometimes. Getting back on track! I am NOT saying that we should EXCUSE them for what they did, nor am I disputing that they don't deserve to be punished. That is what prison is for. And for all of those people who have this notion that "prison isn't so bad" well, they speak from pure ignorance. Prison is the worst sort of hell on God's green earth! Losing one's freedom, and the right to control one's own life, is a VERY severe punishment, unless of course you do not value your freedom, your right to self-determination, privacy, dignity, self-respect etc. The simplest of choices, right down to when you will go to bed at night, and when you will wake up in the morning, are taken from you. The little things that we take for granted, are taken from you. You are removed from society, and seperated from your loved ones. You are treated as though you were less than human.



As for the question, why should we feel compassion for them? Well, first and foremost, because they are human beings. Regardless of what they have done, they are STILL human beings.


You know, when you think about it, a lot of the problems that plague us, a lot of the tragedies that befall us, are the result of poor choices on our part. Should we not feel compassion for the man who is diagnosed with lung cancer, after having been a smoker for thirty years? Should we not feel compassion for the prostitue who is diagnosed with HIV? For the alcoholic, who is living on the street, in a cardboard box? For the teenage girl who finds herself faced with an unplanned pregnancy, and must make the hardest decision of her life, and have an abortion? For the anorexic who starves herself to death, in a desperate attempt to fit some unrealistic ideal? For the man who succombs to despair, and commits suicide? For the absued woman who finally decides that she has had enough, and shoots him dead? For the drug addict, who dies in a cheap, rat infested motel, all alone, of a drug overdose?

I could go on and on. The bottom line is, that we are all human, and therefore fallable. We have all exercised poor judgment. We have all made bad choices, and done things that we have later come to regret. We are not perfect. So why are we so damn hard on other people? Why is it that when WE make a mistake, we expect to be forgiven. But when someone else makes a mistake, we are so quick to condemn them?


It's really just a case of "there but for the grace of God go I". We really should try to be more compassionate and forgiving, because if it were me or someone I loved, I would hope that people could find it in their hearts to forgive, and feel some compassion for me or my loved one. And most of all, I would hope that they could still see my humanity.


Lisa

Wow, some people have interesting ideas, don't they?????????
Bookworm, I'm with you. The power of silence carries more weight. It does me, and my friends, good to remember that. Stay well, all of our DR friends.

i could go on and on about this, but all i am going to say is, 2 wrongs dont make a right. Everyones life IS worth something!

Well said SnakeCharmer, well said! :thumbsup:

Lisa