View Full Version : Minorities getting harsher sentences?!?


daydreamer38141
11-04-2006, 11:28 AM
Today, I was just browsing some of the Department of Corrections website and I noticed something strange about some of the time being served. So I questioned a family member,who works for the justice system about my concern.For example, I have seen black men on the DOC website that are in for their 1st offense and have gotten the max number of years while the others,who have numberous offenses and who have worse crimes get lesser years than the men with the 1st offense!:angry: What's up with that?!? I just wanted to know has anyone noticed that too. Is it true that the justice system still gives minorities harsher sentences than caucasians??

thatwiz
11-04-2006, 05:22 PM
I don't think its race, but I think it has more to do with income. From what I see, most that get arrested and end up in prison are those less fortunate who can't afford a good attorney, and that usually has something to do with race and who is targeted more for arrests.

daydreamer38141
11-04-2006, 07:10 PM
I see what you're saying..(i hate it when people try to throw the income into it though..that's what the statistics say..=-(..but anyway..my man has one of the best lawyers in the state he is incarcerated in and both of our families are very very well off....and it pisses both of us off when he tells me of the many men who are there with him who have committed worse crimes than he. He tells me that it definately has something to do with race(african americans get a harsher sentence than caucasians) and he says that they throw statistics in there to cover it up.

jimbo111
11-04-2006, 07:29 PM
I may be all wet on this and I don't know any statistics.

It maybe be just what the crime involved. For example, Two guys first offense. Both arrested for selling the same type and amount of drugs. Both get charged with the same crime. Both go to court. one gets 2 years, the other gets 3 years. You see all this on the web page. What you don't see on the web page is that the guy that got 3 years got caught selling to a 14 year old. Where the guy that got the 2 years got caught selling to a 25 year old.

--

PTO-92958
11-10-2006, 05:09 PM
There are dudes who got a body that will be out before my baby who was accused of posession. That's justice? It sure does see in black and white!!! (for the record,if it matters, for those of you who may not know me yet...I am white, and I am shocked at the disproportionate numbers of Blacks and Latinos who are incarcerated.)

Terra
11-11-2006, 05:36 PM
I doubt race or income plays a factor in the term handed down. It all depends on the crime committed. Every case is different - you cannot compare one against the other.

tiptoesbabygyrl
11-11-2006, 07:31 PM
I have to say if I was honest I do believe that race , income and the location of where you committed your crime makes a difference . Here in NY sometimes it seems the sentences handed out are far less than those in the south regardless of race. And then if you commit a crime in an affluent neighborhood you are more likely to receive a tougher sentence than if you committed that same crime in the projects. For me the long and the short of it should not be race or income it should be why does our country feel that they would rather spend millions to keep our prison system full of prisoners rather than spending the money on re-entry programs , drug programs and job development

mrschris
11-12-2006, 10:00 PM
i believe that it is very largely based on race AND income.

PTO-92958
11-12-2006, 10:19 PM
VERY largely! tiptoesbaby~ How can you be from NY and even POSSIBLY say that the sentances passed down here are "far less" than those in the south? Do you have a loved one incarcerated here that is in for one of these " lighter sentances" ? What about the "crimes" of "alleged" sale and/or possession w/ intent to sell in "the hood" and not in an "affluent" neighborhood? Just BECAUSE that individual is a minority who was " identified" by someone who wanted to clear themselves of a charge? Someone who is NOT a minority, might I add. And the defendant had NOTHING on them? (except his skin, and an accusation...and no $$$ for a REAL lawyer) Sorry, but I strongly disagree with you on this one. Except where you say that far more resources need to go into other areas besides incarceration. If I have misunderstood your post, and jumped on you in error, I am sorry, but this is a VERY sensitive,raw topic for me.
i believe that it is very largely based on race AND income.

lyteeydlwyr
11-13-2006, 12:31 PM
I doubt race or income plays a factor in the term handed down. It all depends on the crime committed. Every case is different - you cannot compare one against the other.

I agree with you on this. It all depends on the crime. I see an equal proportion of whites and minorities on a daily basis in my courtroom and it is definetly dependent on the crime.

mamajmg
11-13-2006, 02:34 PM
I've been going in and out of courts with my son since he was fourteen years old - he just turned 23. We also live in a diverse community in Harris County Texas, so, our friends, acquaintances are of mixed races and income levels. We also live in a low middle to middle income area. I've been mama to so many young people over the years of different races and this is what I've experienced.

White male - 57 yrs old- court appointed attorney - sixth DWI with no accidents or bodily injuries - 15 years prison
Hispanic male - 54 yrs old - personal attorney - 13th DWI - 5 years prison
White male - 47 yrs old - personal attorney - 1st DWI - 12 months probation with blow device - heavy community service and fines
THREE DIFFERENT COURTS

White male - 22 yrs old - personal attorney - first drug offense - five yrs probation - intense outpatient rehab requirements combined with court ordered county classes for duration of five yrs - or 20 yrs prison

Hispanic male - 24 yrs old - personal attorney - second drug offense - one weapons charge - two yrs probation - no rehab - court fines

Hispanic male - 30 yrs old - personal attorney - drug possession (over 200 lbs of marijuna & 100 k's of cocaine) - intent to distribute - 2nd offense - 7 yrs probation with once a month UA - no rehab or classes

Black male - 26 yrs old - club owner - personal attorney -first offense - illegal distrubition of liquor, serving to minors, drug solicitation, drug trafficing - 1 yr probation and fine

White female - 44 yrs old - personal attorney - first felony offense was posession of two controlled substances with intent to distribute - jumped bond - second arrest was another two felony offense of posession of two controlled substances with intent to distrubute - total sentence was fifteen months between county, safp and one month at halfway house. No probation, fines.
ALL DIFFERENT COURT ROOMS & DIFFERENT JUDGES

So, at least in our county, I think it depends more on what attorney and what judge represents you. Again, we live in a very multi-cultural city and I truly don't think race plays into it. I think it also depends on what moods the prosecutors are in on that day and if they are willing to respond to the attorney's request during plea bargaining. We've got to remember that the judge really doesn't know our cases until after the prosecutors and our attorney "battle it out" and settle on what will be presented to the judge. Then the judge has the final word to accept the deals. The judge doesn't know the details or anything until our loved ones stand before them.

Just my two cents from experiences in our part of the country.

God Bless,

Janice

barbie16118
11-13-2006, 02:44 PM
i dont think race has anything to do with it. i do believe it depends on ur lawyer and ur judge.

tiptoesbabygyrl
11-13-2006, 06:36 PM
VERY largely! tiptoesbaby~ How can you be from NY and even POSSIBLY say that the sentances passed down here are "far less" than those in the south? Do you have a loved one incarcerated here that is in for one of these " lighter sentances" ? What about the "crimes" of "alleged" sale and/or possession w/ intent to sell in "the hood" and not in an "affluent" neighborhood? Just BECAUSE that individual is a minority who was " identified" by someone who wanted to clear themselves of a charge? Someone who is NOT a minority, might I add. And the defendant had NOTHING on them? (except his skin, and an accusation...and no $$$ for a REAL lawyer) Sorry, but I strongly disagree with you on this one. Except where you say that far more resources need to go into other areas besides incarceration. If I have misunderstood your post, and jumped on you in error, I am sorry, but this is a VERY sensitive,raw topic for me.

First let me say that my man is locked up in W.Va his crime was committed in DC and he was convicted of 3 armed robberies his sentence is 20-60 so no he does not have one of those "lighter sentences". On that note I do have other family members locked up in NY who fortunately or unfortunately depending on who is looking at it have been convicted of sale and possession and are serving less than a year. My point being that more often than not the punishment does not fit the crime and yes the more money you can shell out for a lawyer the better of you are.
I understand this is a raw topic for you and no offense was taken :)

2nice
11-14-2006, 04:46 PM
I most certainly believe that minorities DO get HARSHER sentences. :( Ive worked in a court and have seen it first hand for myself!

PTO-92958
11-14-2006, 05:12 PM
[
I understand this is a raw topic for you and no offense was taken :)[/quote]

Thank you for graciously respecting my tirade.:o
As you see, I can get a little animated by some topics.
Moderators would not be required to delete threads or posts if everyone handled differences the way you just did. ;)

tiptoesbabygyrl
11-14-2006, 08:12 PM
Golden I believe in respecting everyones opinion i feel I become a better person by opening myself up to others. And anyway no matter how you slice it we here at PTO are all in this together. You keep being you !!!!!!!

PTO-92958
11-14-2006, 08:17 PM
Golden I believe in respecting everyones opinion i feel I become a better person by opening myself up to others. And anyway no matter how you slice it we here at PTO are all in this together. You keep being you !!!!!!!


:beer: You too!

TiffnDave
11-15-2006, 05:54 AM
It's a proven fact that black and hispanic men receive harsher sentences for first time offenses than do white males.

White men also get out on parole faster than black/hispanic men.

TiffnDave
11-15-2006, 06:05 AM
I agree with you on this. It all depends on the crime. I see an equal proportion of whites and minorities on a daily basis in my courtroom and it is definetly dependent on the crime.

I just want to state that racism in this country is very highly institutionalized. I'm not saying that there aren't overt types of racism going on, but that the racism that affects this country the most is very deeply embedded into the fabric of who we are and how we do things.

On an individual case by case basis it sure doesn't look like we have racism anymore due to the Civil Rights Act and such. However, if you look at numbers there is most def. and obviously some form of racism going on.

For example~the sentences for crack posession/distribution are much harsher than sentences for cocaine possession/distrubution. Now obviously these laws were passed due to the crack epidemic washing over our inner city neighborhoods and then rippling out from there. But who is more likely to live in an inner city neighborhood. Statistically black men are much more likely to be peddling crack and white men more likely for cocaine. So although it's same base of drug~penalties don't equal.

Another example: Most managerial jobs are usually hired for by "networking" or within a company. Statistically whites are more likely to network than are blacks. So who gets hired?

Until we acknowledge and admit that we still have problems and stand up to do something about them~they aren't going away.

lyteeydlwyr
11-15-2006, 06:54 AM
I just want to state that racism in this country is very highly institutionalized. I'm not saying that there aren't overt types of racism going on, but that the racism that affects this country the most is very deeply embedded into the fabric of who we are and how we do things.

On an individual case by case basis it sure doesn't look like we have racism anymore due to the Civil Rights Act and such. However, if you look at numbers there is most def. and obviously some form of racism going on.

For example~the sentences for crack posession/distribution are much harsher than sentences for cocaine possession/distrubution. Now obviously these laws were passed due to the crack epidemic washing over our inner city neighborhoods and then rippling out from there. But who is more likely to live in an inner city neighborhood. Statistically black men are much more likely to be peddling crack and white men more likely for cocaine. So although it's same base of drug~penalties don't equal.

Another example: Most managerial jobs are usually hired for by "networking" or within a company. Statistically whites are more likely to network than are blacks. So who gets hired?

Until we acknowledge and admit that we still have problems and stand up to do something about them~they aren't going away.

Maybe in Iowa your courts do things differently, but here in NY, my hands are tied when it comes to drug sentencing due to the Rockefeller laws--Whether you are white, black or hispanic, a first time offender is given the same sentence. I don't prosecute by color---I prosecute by the crime.
And yes racism still exists in this country by every race. It's sad that we all can't see eye to eye that everyone should be treated as equals despite their race, creed or color.

TiffnDave
11-15-2006, 08:00 AM
Maybe in Iowa your courts do things differently, but here in NY, my hands are tied when it comes to drug sentencing due to the Rockefeller laws--Whether you are white, black or hispanic, a first time offender is given the same sentence. I don't prosecute by color---I prosecute by the crime.
And yes racism still exists in this country by every race. It's sad that we all can't see eye to eye that everyone should be treated as equals despite their race, creed or color.

There isn't any offense intended here. I understand that while NY is attempting something~it's not going on everywhere in this country. And statistically black and hispanic men are receiving harsher punishments. Stastically~white men get out of prison on parole faster than black and hispanic men. I didn't mean to imply that you personally are guilty of this.

Personal Anecdote: 3 people that I know (1 white male, 1 hispanic female, 1 white female) were arrested for the same drug offense within a 3 month period of time. Same county. First drug offenses. Sentences~

White male~Prison (previous arrest record here)
Hispanic Female~prison
White Female~probation

Both of the females are around the same age, no previous arrests, both have children, both have the same amount of education, basically a great "match study". So what is the qualifying difference? There are two. One is different judges and two is race.

diamond17112001
11-21-2006, 09:53 AM
I believe truly its a minority thing its a race and money game society that we live sad to say. My husband is 22yrs old in college got hit with 30yrs to life sentence w/possibility of parole. for just being there. Very 1st offense no history. Verses someone who commits murder they get 25 to life. Yes he is black.

Herbawitz
11-21-2006, 06:37 PM
I do not think it has to do with race but rather the lawyer, the judge, the offense and the state you committed the crime. My son is white, first offense and had a PD and a very mean DA. He got a very very harsh sentence for the crime committed!

Texasfem
11-21-2006, 07:30 PM
Money has allot to do with it and don't forget family support counts also.
I honestly do not think race has anything to do with it. Our DA, our Judge was so harsh and we are white!! But because I stayed on the attorney and I did not accept any 15 or 20 yr. sentence or plea bargain without a fight.

BillieJo
11-21-2006, 07:55 PM
It's a proven fact that black and hispanic men receive harsher sentences for first time offenses than do white males.

White men also get out on parole faster than black/hispanic men.
well in Charlie's cases -- there are a lot more black and hispanic men who made parole than him, and he is white. both on his ten year bid, and this one, too. my best friend's x whupped her and then had to be taken out by five plus cops (that he 'assualted') with active warrants for his arrest in two other counties ... he got one year less time than mine! he got two years total. she and he are both of darker skin.

overall, I agree that the prosecution and resulting sentences do generally seem to be 'harsher' on men that aren't white, but I think that it's more of a money thing than ethnicity.

Eternal Friend
11-21-2006, 08:12 PM
I don't think that race plays a role in the sentencing process. I have seen first hand minorities and white people get sentenced to different spans than each other. In the part of W.V. that I live in it seems that it more depends on what judge you get and the mood that the particular judge is in that day. I have seen murders get home confinement and a small time drug dealer get 2 to 20 years. Such in my mans case. He got caught with two pills and two controlled buys and he got 2 to 20. While some homosexual got mad and murdered his lover and got home confinement. Mind you both of these individuals are white. How in the world is this called fair justice? Race did not play any role in this case. Literally people get away with murder in this place.

LongHaul
11-21-2006, 08:40 PM
I think the biggest part of the statistics that has not yet been stated here is ignorance of the system.

I know there is HUGE disparity in sentencing, and case by case things slice out every which way. However, when you see someone who gets a "light" sentence, you will usually find that person is adept in working within the system. This is a person who advocates for themselves, usually has family who will vigorously advocate for them, and this person will usually have BALLS! In order to get that better plea - you have to play "chicken" with the prosecutor. EVERYONE KNOWS you take the VERY LAST DEAL before you hit the box (empanel the jury) - AND NOT A MOMENT BEFORE. To hold out that long takes nerves of steel.

The system is very foreboding, it is scary, unworkable, and very inaccessable to the average person. For a first time offender - who doesn't have any first or second hand recent knowledge of the system, it is guaranteed they will get shafted.

I have to give it to the "jail house lawyers" usually they are very adept in their advise to other inmates, or at least the predictions that they make at the outset of the cases... they've been around, seen it go down, they usually know of what they speak.

Wobabi
11-21-2006, 08:58 PM
I mean is this really a question?? I am not trying to down the op,,just throwing my sarcasm in regards to the system out there,,,but seriously just look at the bop/doc stats,,,Hmm lets see majority,,Young Black/Hispanic,,serving life sentences for non-violent crimes. I dunno but I see the answer all up and thru the prison system.:shrug:

june5
11-21-2006, 09:20 PM
I mean is this really a question?? I am not trying to down the op,,just throwing my sarcasm in regards to the system out there,,,but seriously just look at the bop/doc stats,,,Hmm lets see majority,,Young Black/Hispanic,,serving life sentences for non-violent crimes. I dunno but I see the answer all up and thru the prison system.:shrug:

This is just about what I was thinking...that's why I didn't post at first. It's kind of funny because this is not really an opinion issue. There may be certain areas in the country where this might not be the case, but overall, minorities do receive harsher sentences than whites. The stats are there, whether people want to face it or not.

laChoola
11-25-2006, 08:40 AM
During my 20 days of sitting in the courtroom, watching docket call, plea bargains, and trials, and knowing nothing of the circumstances of the cases or the history of the defendant, I say YES, minorities get a harsher deal.

I say it boils down to several things.
Race
Money
Attorney vs. Public Defender
Previous record (many minority people grew up disadvantaged, and started a criminal record pretty early)
Don't understand English well
Don't speak English well, and that creates a bad impression in the mind of the judge, DA, jury, etc.
Attitude. Here I don't mean a "bad" attitude, but things like not standing up straight, not looking people in the eye, not speaking loudly and confidently, dressing inappropriately, etc.

BillieJo
11-25-2006, 10:54 AM
I've been going in and out of courts with my son since he was fourteen years old - he just turned 23. We also live in a diverse community in Harris County Texas, so, our friends, acquaintances are of mixed races and income levels. We also live in a low middle to middle income area. I've been mama to so many young people over the years of different races and this is what I've experienced.

White male - 57 yrs old- court appointed attorney - sixth DWI with no accidents or bodily injuries - 15 years prison
Hispanic male - 54 yrs old - personal attorney - 13th DWI - 5 years prison
White male - 47 yrs old - personal attorney - 1st DWI - 12 months probation with blow device - heavy community service and fines
THREE DIFFERENT COURTS

White male - 22 yrs old - personal attorney - first drug offense - five yrs probation - intense outpatient rehab requirements combined with court ordered county classes for duration of five yrs - or 20 yrs prison

Hispanic male - 24 yrs old - personal attorney - second drug offense - one weapons charge - two yrs probation - no rehab - court fines

Hispanic male - 30 yrs old - personal attorney - drug possession (over 200 lbs of marijuna & 100 k's of cocaine) - intent to distribute - 2nd offense - 7 yrs probation with once a month UA - no rehab or classes

Black male - 26 yrs old - club owner - personal attorney -first offense - illegal distrubition of liquor, serving to minors, drug solicitation, drug trafficing - 1 yr probation and fine

White female - 44 yrs old - personal attorney - first felony offense was posession of two controlled substances with intent to distribute - jumped bond - second arrest was another two felony offense of posession of two controlled substances with intent to distrubute - total sentence was fifteen months between county, safp and one month at halfway house. No probation, fines.
ALL DIFFERENT COURT ROOMS & DIFFERENT JUDGES

So, at least in our county, I think it depends more on what attorney and what judge represents you. Again, we live in a very multi-cultural city and I truly don't think race plays into it. I think it also depends on what moods the prosecutors are in on that day and if they are willing to respond to the attorney's request during plea bargaining. We've got to remember that the judge really doesn't know our cases until after the prosecutors and our attorney "battle it out" and settle on what will be presented to the judge. Then the judge has the final word to accept the deals. The judge doesn't know the details or anything until our loved ones stand before them.

Just my two cents from experiences in our part of the country.

God Bless,

Janice

damn. second offense, too?

BillieJo
11-25-2006, 11:26 AM
Lyteed will love this one.... I am going to vote NO.

her and I got at it over this once before, about a year ago. Charlie has a lot more in common with her beliefs that she has expressed-- than mine, andsomehow they both won me over on this one. I will explain how.

in the meantime of this last year since lyteed's and my introduction :

there was a bust in a city not too far from here, where 6 black men and 1 white man had dealt both powder and rock cocaine to undercover agents at a bar not too far from their apartment complex (yes, subsidized). they cops tore the sh*t out of the apts involved, so much so that they also arrested wives and had vans waiting for the children to be taken to foster care immediately.

after all the commotion settled down, they were all signature bonded out several days later and the children came home. and, as far as I am aware -- not one charge has been brought against them in a period of over a year.

also, a close friend of mine was beaten and almost smothered to death by her hispanic husband (with a serious record) he went to prison after Charlie and is already home.

that is why I am more comfortable to say now, that it's a class (money) than a race (color) thing. it's a far more accurate reflection, at least - to me, personally.

the system is not perfect, by any means. . . but for the most part it serves its purpose, tho I believe it needs reform with serious modification in mandatory sentences for drugs and lessor felonies, and I will always be opposed to the death penalty, in every case.

mrschris
11-25-2006, 12:54 PM
well in texas, EVERYONE goes down! it doesn't matter who, what, why, where, or how...if you're in TX...you're going DOWN.

BUT...taking a closer look...those sentences weren't as harsh for texas as i'd thought before. however, i still vote yes, because neither 100 cases nor 1000 make up the average...

crow94
11-25-2006, 01:16 PM
I am going to say "no", but it isn't as cut and dried as all that.

My boyfriend got the max allowed, even with no priors, etc, and yeah he's as white as they come. In my opinion and experience, there are varying cirumstances: the state you are in, the judge, the defendant's attitude/demeanor, the nature of the crime, if you have money, etc.

mrschris
11-25-2006, 01:55 PM
i just did a quick comparison between black, white, and hispanic men in a specific county in nj:

black male: 10-12 years, 1st deg. agg. robbery (only charge)
black male: 4-5 years, 1st deg robbery (not aggravated, only charge)
white male: 5-7 years, 1st deg. agg robbery (only charge)
white male: 5-6 years, 1st deg. agg robbery (only charge)
black male: 5-7 years, 2nd deg. robbery (only charge)
black male: 5-7 years, 2nd deg. robbery (only charge)
white male: 2-3 years, 2nd deg. robbery (only charge)
white male: 3-4 years, 2nd deg. robbery (only charge)
hispanic male: 4-5 years, 2nd deg. robbery (only charge)

hispanic male: 6-8 years, 2nd. deg. burglary (weapons charge as well)
hispanic male: 5-6 years, 2nd deg. agg. assault (only charge)

on average for ALL crimes (not only robbery), the degree of crimes for black males was 3rd, the average length of prison sentence was 3-4 years. the degree of crimes for white males was 2nd, the average prison sentence length was 3-4 years. for hispanics, the average sentence length was 5-6 years, the average crime degree was 2nd.

this is one of the wealthiest counties in NJ, so all attornies were probably private. also, there were 4 hispanic males, 13 white males arrested and 18 black males arrested in total in the ENTIRE county (so these aren't just a few stats here and/or there).

i also have to note that white males had fewer mandatory minimums than black males and hispanic males (all hispanic males had a MM). that may not seem like a huge deal, but no MM can mean a release years earlier than a MM sentence for the same crime.

dwfighterva
11-25-2006, 02:57 PM
Let's face it, there are a lot of factors involved in why no one gets the same sentencing. Even with sentencing guidelines, they still are all over the board. Why does someone with his first posession of drugs get 18 months and the guy with his third bust on intent to sell gets probation? He struck a deal and gave them information. Why can one guy get three years for his first DUI and another one get his 5th one pleaded down and gets 6 months?

I watched a judge come down on many people in his court room, no matter what their color. He was impatient over stupidity and not talking up. I was scared when it was my turn in front of him, but I stood tall, I spoke loudly and clearly when I was asked questions and never backed down when he challenged me. In the end, I had his respect.

Yes, those who understand the law can work their way around it better. I think it depends more on the judge, the lawyer and the presence of the client. Our justice system is not just and it is not fair, but is what it is and it is all we have.

LoDucafan67
11-25-2006, 03:38 PM
Now, I read this and I have to add my :twocents: .

My ex is in CA in Folsom, and he got the 2 strikes and you're out. :mad:

He got 22 years for driving away without paying for $500 brakes. :mad:

To me that just sucks and that deal is for ANYONE, white, black or whatever. :blah:

dwfighterva
11-25-2006, 06:36 PM
He got 22 years for driving away without paying for $500 brakes. :mad:

Yeah, 22 years of a person's life for $500 brakes. Doesn't add up, does it?

mrschris
11-25-2006, 09:21 PM
22 years, 500.00 brakes...however...there was a 3 strike law, correct? it doesn't add up, i agree...but then most people know such an equation WON'T add up...but still do the math anyway.

Brian Rooney
11-28-2006, 12:19 PM
I think it really depends on the crime. I received 54 years/ 15 months with 23 suspended for property crimes (granted there were a lot, but still...I served 12)...I think as far as whites go, we are not "expected" to commit crimes and therefore may receive a harsher sentence, but I have noticed that minorities do get more time...I think it depends on a case by case basis...the more violent the crime the more time an indivual will receive no matter what their color is. There ae some interesting studies thata have been done that discuss this very issue.

Brian

teacake
11-28-2006, 01:07 PM
Its has alot to do with race, at least here in Ohio. My b/f had similar case as a caucasian man that he was locked up with. My b/f got 27 years while the other guy just got out after only doing 7 1/2 years. How bogus is that:eek: They just throw "statistics" in there to mask the real reason.

TULIPS42
11-29-2006, 09:27 AM
I think it does have to do with race but it is deeper than just skin color. It is also about how much money you have. Maybe minorities are coming from more lower income homes and then are more likely to be involved in crime and then can not pay a good lawyer to fight their cases. And so much of what is effecting the prison system is Politics which often results in politians not as concerned for poorer people. America, the good and the bad.

mrschris
11-29-2006, 09:56 AM
tulips i totally agree...prison is nothing BUT politics! good point!

neworleans85
11-29-2006, 10:41 AM
i'm often the last person to "use the race card" so i hate to admit it, but i do believe there are still certain places where people are judged more strictly due to their status as a minority. my bf was convicted in a predominately white rural town in mississippi and of course it didn't help that his crime was committed against a white person. i'm by no means defending what he did, but i think the sentence he was handed was ridiculously strict and i've spoke with multiple people in the legal profession in MS who say he would've got so much less if he was in a city like jackson, ms even. it's sad but true.

another of my opinions though (just how i personally feel) is that we as minorities (or let me just say my bf and use his case) shouldn't be so quick to say "i got such hard punishment cuz they're racist" what he should've done was thought, before he committed his crime, "i'm a black man in a racist white town, i shouldn't be doing this because they will get my @$$!" lol, but seriously...!

Wobabi
12-01-2006, 10:07 AM
The Justice Dept just released a new Report,,7 million people (All time High) on probation,on parole,or in prison,,,85% Black. Black population in US less than 11%,,,Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
<Babi looking for her calculator>

BillieJo
12-01-2006, 12:39 PM
please babi- don't forget that they are also the ones who commited a crime- and got caught.

optimistic
12-02-2006, 07:02 PM
I am just running across this thread....jumping in kinda late I know.

I think that race does a play a factor in sentencing as do income level. Numbers speak for themselves. It is hard to say that in a broad national sense that the numbers do not reflect a high number of minorities being incarcarated for longer. While every case is different, and every judge is different are the cases of the majority race any more compelling or stronger than the minority for 85% of the inmates to be black?

This is such an interesting discussion and I do believe that in every courtroom race does not play an issue, but obviously it does in many instances.

mrschris
12-03-2006, 01:07 AM
i think as individuals, those in charge of the legalities of this country choose to allow race to either play a role or not play a role.

the individual person may not see color, but the masses do. they always have, and as far as i can tell, they always will.

darwin
12-03-2006, 09:37 AM
Sometimes the truth hurts but here it is.............crime in minority hoods exceeds crime in white hoods by a factor of 100. Whos commiting these crimes? Why do you think minorities move to white hoods? Cuz they love white folks?

Wobabi
12-03-2006, 01:58 PM
Sometimes the truth hurts but here it is.............crime in minority hoods exceeds crime in white hoods by a factor of 100. Whos commiting these crimes? Why do you think minorities move to white hoods? Cuz they love white folks?
Darwin,,Black people know better than anyone about Black on Black crime,,We are the ones who are getting the bulk of crimes committed,,against Us by Us,,Black people ,,,They want to be safe,,They also want GOOD education,,Good clean streets, Nice places to shop,,,They are tired of paying the HIGHEST TAXES but getting the least amount of jobs, protection, and all the other things govt is suppose to provide when you PAY,,not all of us are on welfare,,So we are going where we can get those things. Because no matter how much we pay,,we cant seem to get equal services in the Hood. Thats the truth!
Babi

darwin
12-03-2006, 02:59 PM
Whos runnin the hood? It aint whitey is it? Hmmm something to think about huh.

diamond17112001
12-07-2006, 07:53 AM
I beg to differ Herbawitz. My husband met a
Caucasian inmate facing the same charges same type crime he had an appointed counsel not paid like my husband and it was his first conviction as well had a very hard DA appointed counsel very lazy in the case didnt do nothing but he still with the same charges same crime and first offense got 11yrs with 8 mnths rather than my husband who got 30yrs to life first offense!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! SO YES SWEETIE I BEG TO DIFFER RACE DOES APPLY WHEN IT COMES TO SENTENCING!!!!!!!!! I advise you to be enlightened Montel Williams had a special on his show back in October about the 3 strike law that we have in California and he said that statistics show that 80% that that have been convicted of the 3 Strike law are African American...


I do not think it has to do with race but rather the lawyer, the judge, the offense and the state you committed the crime. My son is white, first offense and had a PD and a very mean DA. He got a very very harsh sentence for the crime committed!

googlenation
12-22-2006, 09:05 AM
Minorities absolutely get harsher sentences. :angry:

eddieswife
12-22-2006, 01:27 PM
Yes, Blacks as a whole get harsher sentences. No matter what any one says - the facts and evidence points to that.

And they get put away faster. Just take a look at the percentage of Blacks in the USA judicial system. Facts speak for themselves.

Look at TV news, you see those white female teachers having sex with students and getting slaps on the wrist. If the teachers were Black and male, boy they would be given the maximum sentences.

There is an injustice in the USA judicial system. You can also look at the meth problem and see the most of the people that make and do meth are white - they are not being sentenced as harshly as defendents having marijuana or cocaine issues. And meth is far more dangerous.

Don't kid yourself - there are still many injustices brewing in this country.

eddieswife
12-22-2006, 01:35 PM
darwin,

The race make up of a "hood", does not really have any thing to do with the question.

And I lived in White hoods and predominately Black hoods. I saw the cops floating around more in the White hood. And more serious crime was in the White hood. Really.

It's not about the make up of the community one lives in. It's about the injustice of the current American judicial system against minorities - especially Black people.


Whos runnin the hood? It aint whitey is it? Hmmm something to think about huh.

number one son
12-26-2006, 11:50 AM
i tend to think its about how many convictions a d.a. can get, and the amount of money one has in ones pocket, and the status one holds in the community as to the amount of time they are given. just my 2 cents worth. :(

HeSoHandsome
12-29-2006, 09:27 AM
A shocking look at the collateral consequences of America's drug war. In 1999, forty-three people in this tiny town, located between Lubbock and Amarillo were arrested in a drug sting conducted by a single undercover officer with no corroborating evidence. The majority of those arrested were African-American; the rest had connections with the African-American community. Although there were no drugs or large amounts of cash found, and there was no proof that any drug dealing occurred, twenty of those persons still remain in prison, most serving sentences of 25 to 99 years. One received a mind-boggling 342 years.

Read the case-breaking story from the Austin Chronicle (http://www.auschron.com/issues/dispatch/2000-07-28/pols_feature3.html).

Produced by The William Moses Kunstler Fund for Racial Justice (http://www.kunstler.org/tuliavideo.html) with the generous support of the Drug Policy Alliance (http://www.drugpolicy.org/).

UPDATE

In a story dated 6/16/03, the AP reported that a judge had released on bond 12 of the accused who were still incarcerated pending a ruling by the Texas Court of Criminal Appeals. The release comes while the appeals court considers a recommendation by retired state District Judge Ron Chapman that all the convictions be overturned. A bill passed by Texas legislators last month and signed by Texas Gov. Rick Perry two weeks ago cleared the way for their release. It could take as long as two years for the appeals court to rule. A special prosecutor has said he will dismiss all charges if the court orders new trials. The release doesn't mean the defendants' records have been wiped clean. It likely will be difficult for them to obtain college loans or jobs with a conviction on their records, defense attorneys said. Coleman faces three charges of perjury stemming from his testimony at March evidentiary hearings on four of the cases.

1999 and 2003 ain't that long ago. American TV won't show us things like this that happen in our own backyards, but UNCENSORED -- LINK-TV does!! These are the two programs I was referring to when I posted about a white man who said people are commiting CRIMES all over but because the police STAY in the "hood" searching front seats for a bag of weed that often they don't find so they carry drugs to plant them, the local authorities don't have enough on the force to tend to THE REAL CRIMES that are being committed by people who don't look like those "in the hood."

Tulia, Texas: Scenes From the Drug War
Length: 00:30 Type of program: Documentary
http://linktv.com/programming/programDescription.php4?code=tulia

************************************************** ******
Another program was also aired, that I watched, I mentioned on a snitch thread where I said an authority had preyed on a vulnerable guy in prison and made him a snitch by offering hin $50 for every drug seller or user he "snitched", this is the story, which tells of the authority who hired him:

Spotlight: Texas Undercover
Length: 01:00 Type of program: Documentary
http://linktv.com/programming/programDescription.php4?code=texas

On 23 July, 1999 the tiny Texas town of Tulia woke to discover that a tenth of its black population had been arrested. This mass arrest followed a lengthy undercover narcotics sting operation. The entire case rested on the word of the undercover narcotics officer, Tom Coleman, who ran the operation single-handedly. He used no partner, no tape recorder, no video surveillance, no fingerprint evidence and he wrote no notes - apart from those on his leg. No drugs or money were found during the arrests. Thirty-eight defendants were convicted or accepted plea bargains for fear they would get long prison sentences. Of the other eight, seven cases were dismissed and one person died before trial began. The film features an exclusive BBC TV interview with Coleman who has admitted for the first time that he made mistakes during the investigation. Who shamed Tulia and how, and what has happened to justice in the president's home state? Texas Undercover goes deep behind the scenes of one of America's biggest race scandals of the last decade.

HeSoHandsome
12-29-2006, 09:42 AM
Whos runnin the hood? It aint whitey is it? Hmmm something to think about huh.
Well Darwin, the way that worked was what goes on today in the hood didn't start today, but is the effect of what started back years ago. Years ago the police knew drugs were being sold BOUNTIFULLY and PLENTIFULLY in Harlem. Other "hoods" too, but because I live closest to Harlem, Harlem is the one that I know about. They knew who the dealers were and they saw all the addicts just laying about. THEY DID NOTHING. Nobody was getting busted for sales. Nobody was getting busted for drugging. The theme was 'we don't care about these people, let them kill each other, and theirselves.' That's how it was allowed to happen.

BUT WHEN hard drugs (cocaine and heroin) crept out of the hood and into the white neighborhoods to make some "white dollars" cause word is white folks don't play, THEY PAY, plus, white folks love drugs too, it is when these drugs started getting sold in white neighborhoods that the police cared because the police cared about those people in the white neighborhoods.

So what that then meant was "it's now time to stop it", so what the authorities (whitey) started doing then is arresting drug dealers and buyers in the hood, because they were not gonna have them branching out to cause the same drug devastation in the white neighborhoods that they (the authorities) allowed to happen in the black neighborhoods.

That's why the whites got into meth using them under the sink components to make that stuff. Won't no guy on the corner for them to run out to and buy their drugs, because the authorities (whitey) would not allow it. Meanwhile, because drugs were always sold in the hood, to this day, they are still being sold in the hood. The difference today is the people are getting arrested. Today, the jails and prisons are filled with drug-related crimes -- what, 80% I think the percentage is.

So that's how whitey ran the neighborhoods -- by allowing the drug sales to flourish and destroy in "some hoods", while absolutely not permitting it to be sold "in others."

BillieJo
12-29-2006, 09:58 AM
So that's how whitey ran the hood -- by allowing the drug sales to destroy, break down and kill, when they could have done back then what they are doing today because drug sellin in the hood is not new. It just got cracked down on, because somebody had the idea to go sell it in the white neighborhoods too

I comepletely agree that drugs and lessor felonies are more aggressively sought after by authorities in the hood, I guess that I just have a hard time saying that those cases always make it to court, or that their race plays a factor in sentencing here in WI. cos, my white man has sat more time on PROPERTY crimes than some men that weren't white who had violent offenses.

yes, they shake the hoods down, but charges don't always happen. I know this for a fact with many of the 'hoods' I am familiar with in passing with friends and aqaintences. people talk, and then walk.

drugs play a vital part in all the societal issues that affect the "lower" classes (i.e anything less than capitalist). I think that 'whitey' figured out that he could make more impact by class ... ... ... and I think it got cracked down on, cos they found a way to profit from us.

sammi528
12-29-2006, 11:03 PM
Hi :wave: I've pretty much stayed away from PTO for a while because things got a little hairy; not only here, but in life in general. I love reading all of your posts, and I've garnered a wealth of information on so many different subjects. But....that doesn't mean I don't come across a thread that just hits me the wrong way. Unfortunately, this is one of them.

I am not one for statistics and polls and hearsay and such; I only go by my own experiences. So here is my take on this:

Do minorities get harsher sentences? I have no idea. What exactly is the definition of a "minority", anyway? Are we talking about race? Economic class? Republicans versus Democrats? Blondes versus brunettes? Brown eyes versus blue eyes? I guess I'm just not getting it.

My friend is in prison because he committed a crime; he took a plea of 12 flat. (Non-violent drug offense.) Yes, he is guilty. No doubt about it - no sugar coating here. Does the punishment fit the crime? According to sentencing guidelines, yes, they do.....and we have to live with that. It is what it is. But that doesn't mean I don't get just a tad bit uncomfortable when I hear about the guys he's locked up with that have committed murder, multiple rapes, etc. and they are out in 5. And I say "uncomfortable"......NOT resentful or hateful or judgemental. Every case is VERY different, and there are so many things to be taken into consideration. I could spout out specific examples, but right now I'm kinda tired and it would probably be a moot point, anyway.

And just for clarification sake, my friend and I come from an upper middle class neighborhood. His father is a prominent political figure and his brother is a town police officer. And yes, we are both white, if that means anything. No breaks, no favors, no collusion here.

I can really appreciate everyone's opinion here, and I only hope that you can appreciate mine. My only gripe is the use of the term "whitey"; it's been thrown around here a couple of times and it kinda bothers me.

Thanks for listening.

Lisa

DadOf3DownFor5
12-30-2006, 02:11 AM
Touchy subject to say the least. I look at it like this, of course every circumstance is different. It boils down to M.O.N.E.Y! OJ Simpson is guilty as hell and he had a racist detective against him but his money got him off. I'm sure I would of been found guilty and I'm white but not rich!

HeSoHandsome
12-30-2006, 08:37 AM
. . . my friend and I come from an upper middle class neighborhood. His father is a prominent political figure and his brother is a town police officer.

. . . My only gripe is the use of the term "whitey"; it's been thrown around here a couple of times and it kinda bothers me.

Thanks for listening.

Lisa
I guess the term "whitey" would bother you. I mean my having defined my usage of the term to mean THE AUTHORITIES, you did say that your friend's father and his brother are AUTHORITIES. So yeah, I can see how that would bother you.


Because you don't get what "minorities" are though, ask the politician or the cop -- THEY'LL KNOW, and, they'll tell you. :o Now whether you understand what they tell you or not, that's a different story.


Though I responded to Darwin's post who initially mentioned whitey, while I'm not sure who he meant, SO THAT PEOPLE WOULD KNOW WHO I MEANT, I CLEARLY defined my useage of the term.

sammi528
12-30-2006, 09:20 AM
I guess the term "whitey" would bother you. I mean my having defined my usage of the term to mean THE AUTHORITIES, you did say that your friend's father and his brother are AUTHORITIES. So yeah, I can see how that would bother you.


Because you don't get what "minorities" are though, ask the politician or the cop -- THEY'LL KNOW, and, they'll tell you. :o Now whether you understand what they tell you or not, that's a different story.


Though I responded to Darwin's post who initially mentioned whitey, while I'm not sure who he meant, SO THAT PEOPLE WOULD KNOW WHO I MEANT, I CLEARLY defined my useage of the term.

I don't believe I singled out any one person who used the term "whitey"; all I said is that it bothered me a little.....no matter what context in which it was used. Just like certain other words used to describe other races would be taken as equally offensive. And yes, I do "get" what minorities are; I was just trying to make a point in reference to the original question of whether I think minorities get harsher sentences. (I don't have to ask anybody for clarification or to have things laid out for me....I'm not an idiot, thank you very much.) And from MY personal experience I would have to say "no". I believe I explained that in my post. He got a VERY harsh sentence, as opposed to what some "minorities" have gotten, but it is what it is. So what is the "excuse" for us? And I use the term "excuse" VERY loosely, because there is no excuse. But that was a different thread.

HeSoHandsome
12-30-2006, 10:02 AM
I don't believe I singled out any one person who used the term "whitey"; . . .
You believe correct -- you didn't, nor did anyone say you did. :o

sammi528
12-30-2006, 10:19 AM
I guess the term "whitey" would bother you. I mean my having defined my usage of the term to mean THE AUTHORITIES, you did say that your friend's father and his brother are AUTHORITIES. So yeah, I can see how that would bother you.


Because you don't get what "minorities" are though, ask the politician or the cop -- THEY'LL KNOW, and, they'll tell you. :o Now whether you understand what they tell you or not, that's a different story.


Though I responded to Darwin's post who initially mentioned whitey, while I'm not sure who he meant, SO THAT PEOPLE WOULD KNOW WHO I MEANT, I CLEARLY defined my useage of the term.

OK, thanks for the clarification.

sammi528
12-30-2006, 11:55 AM
I guess the term "whitey" would bother you. I mean my having defined my usage of the term to mean THE AUTHORITIES, you did say that your friend's father and his brother are AUTHORITIES. So yeah, I can see how that would bother you.


Because you don't get what "minorities" are though, ask the politician or the cop -- THEY'LL KNOW, and, they'll tell you. :o Now whether you understand what they tell you or not, that's a different story.


Though I responded to Darwin's post who initially mentioned whitey, while I'm not sure who he meant, SO THAT PEOPLE WOULD KNOW WHO I MEANT, I CLEARLY defined my useage of the term.

Also, I find it quite curious that out of the entire gist of my post, (which my statement was a casual afterthought) THIS (the "whitey" thing) is what you zeroed in on.

Have a nice day.

mrschris
12-30-2006, 06:35 PM
i'm sure she zeroed in on it because she was trying to explain why she used a term that you felt offensive, sammi. i would have zeroed in on that too, so you would have understood me better, had i written the post.

it's very thought provoking in here, but when you take away all the mumble jumble and get to the point of it...yes...black versus white still plays a huge role...it always, ALWAYS will.

Addicted_one
12-30-2006, 06:46 PM
I know this is old and really doesn't matter but I have got to comment on this. I don't believe this to be true in California. What I do think is how your present yourself in court has to do with your sentencing. If you come up dressed like a thug and are tatooed from forehead to toenail and act like you aint got any sense then your are treated less lienently, regardless of whether you are black, white, mexican or other.

HeSoHandsome
12-30-2006, 07:04 PM
I know this is old and really doesn't matter but I have got to comment on this. I don't believe this to be true in California. What I do think is how your present yourself in court has to do with your sentencing. If you come up dressed like a thug and are tatooed from forehead to toenail and act like you aint got any sense then your are treated less lienently, regardless of whether you are black, white, mexican or other.
Well, alot of people do take pleas, so when you take a plea once you accept it, you already know what your sentence will be. And, when people go to trial, usually they wear a suit and try to put their best face on.

But let me ask you this and let me know your feeling, because I've got a feeling and it's kinda related to what you said. The judged DID NOT like my husband AT ALL. He felt his record was atrocious, and with every charge, there was an alias so as they read the aliases off, it seemed to take a good 3 minutes to name them all. It sounded so bad that my husband even said "dayum!!"

Also, when it was time to agree/admit to the plea, because my husband said he wasn't guilty of what they charged him with, it was very difficult for him to admit to it. He was hesitant, he was nervous, and he was also concerned about whether or not I was gonna roll with him. When he wasn't in the courtroom the judge, who they said was one of the worsts (from Queens County) and had a rep for being harsh when it comes to committing offenses in Queens when you're not from Queens, and the clerks were making comments. He made it seem like my husband was acting like a "tuff guy" in the courtroom, when actually, he wasn't. It's just that usually, he's guilty of what they bring him in on, but on this case, things didn't happen the way it was said. The judge even made a comment "you wanna be a tuff guy, let's see how tuff you are in prison."

Once my husband left reception they sent him to one of the furtherest places. I told my husband I can't help but to believe that the Judged made comments for reception to SEND HIM FAR. Maybe because I was very supportive and very positive in the courtroom and maybe he felt with distance like that, that my husband wouldn't get many visits. Also, after 2 years you can transfer. My husband has been approved a year already for a bed, yet "a bed has not opened" in the faciity where he requested to go, so for a year, he's still waiting to be transferred.

Sorry for the long story but what my wondering is is that the judge made comments in his report that my husband be sent far away and that he stay at that location for as long as possible. I call Albany all the time and they tell me the same thing -- when a bed opens up, he'll be transferred. My husband on the other hand said the judge has nothing to do with it, that even if the judge did make recommendations, that once he leaves county and hits state, that what the judge said is dead and whatever reception wants to do is how things will be done. What my question to you (or any other person who works with judges or in the courtroom or even in a reception state prison) is do you have any idea how much impact judges' recommendations/notes/comments play once the prisoner leaves county and transitions onto state?

Inhousecounsel
12-30-2006, 07:46 PM
I do think the national statistics are pretty clear on this, although I think the extent of the discrimination varies from region to region. I don't know that it matters, but in my city, I think the big discrimination comes more from the police force than from the DA or the judge. I couldn't swear to the numbers, but if you walk in one of the court rooms in my county you don't need a calculator to see that the majority of defendants are young black males. I don't know that they receive harsher sentences, but I think they are brought in on charges more often than the any other group. Alot of arrests seem to be from profiling and targeting certain neighborhoods. However in Federal Court, where my husband was sentenced, that did not seem to be the case. I will also say, honestly this is not because he is my husband, but it is an absolute fact that his sentence was much harsher, relative to his role in the offense, than his co-defendants. Discrimination is terrible, so is reverse discrimination. Outcomes based on race rather that facts are always unjust. The judge was black, the co-defendants were black and there is no doubt hubby got nailed. Even the AUSA and the co-defendant's attorneys told my husband's attorney that he got too much time. Inspite of this, I voted that I do believe that minorities get harsher sentences, because I think this is generally true. However, our case was the exception to this.

number one son
12-31-2006, 08:47 AM
inhousecounsel.......so if you believe he got way too much time for the crime he is accused of, can't you get a sentence reduction? or is what the judge hands out the final say? just wondering..:o

Inhousecounsel
12-31-2006, 09:55 AM
Unfortunately, in Federal court on a plea, there is no way to appeal a sentence that is within the guideline range. It's actually a short sentence, but everyone (except the judge) thought he should get probation. The best we can hope for is early HWH. I have always been sympathic with victims of prejudice, the topic of this thread, but now I have an even better idea of how it really feels. In a perfect world, no decisions would be made based strictly on race, but the reality is, it happens more than most of us are willing to admit.

sammi528
01-03-2007, 07:33 PM
Hi.....HeSo, I come in peace :bow: However, this is something I wanted to post for everyone here. It took me a few days, but I did want to check back in after taking a step back for a moment.

While I still stand on my original stance to the original post that no, I do not think minoroties get harsher sentenses (based my OWN personal experience), I would like to clarfiy a few things.

Yes, my friend and I both come from a white, upper middle class neighborhood. Yes, his family members are who I say they are. Yes, he had a very high priced, high profile and successful attorney with a GREAT track record....almost flawless. Yes, he showed up to all of his court dates dressed to the nines and poised (other than those where he was in the prison greens and shackles). Yes, his family is professionally associated to the agency who sentenced him. For all intents and purposes of this particular thread, one might think he would get a MUCH less harsh sentence due to these factors; factors which others may think might get him a "get out of jail free" card. This definitely wasn't the case for us, and I just wanted to give another perspective. IN MY OWN PERSONAL EXPERIENCE, money, skin color/race, nepotisim, gratuitous favors, "professional courtesy", etc., whatever, did not amount to a hill of beans when it came down to the wire. Not that we were even looking at it at all, but it HAS been an issue brought up in one or more of these threads.

Was the sentence fair? Hmmmm....I would have to say that according to the guidelines, yeah, it was. He committed the crime, and he is doing his time. It is what it is. But that doesn't mean I can't help but compare our situtation with others, who get lesser sentences for more "serious" crimes. At that point, I check myself and ask, "what does it really matter, anyway?" He is in prison doing his time, just like all of the other guys there. Every situation is different, and there are a whole lot of mitigating factors that go along with it.

The point I so strongly wanted to make from the beginning is that it isn't always about race, minorities or income; there are some folks out here who don't fall into any particular "category", and I just wanted to "represent", for lack of a better word.

No matter what race, political belief or relgious affiliation you have, we are all here for the same reason, and waiting to be thrown under the same bus.

HeSo....you asked if the judge who had anything to do with your husbands sentencing had anything to do with where he was sent. (Sorry if I am paraphrasing here....I'm tired :-) ) And I would have to say, probably not. (If you would like more details on how I came to that conclusion, please feel free to PM me.)

I think that's all for now; thanks for listening and have a great evening all!

Peace,
Sammi528






My original
Well, alot of people do take pleas, so when you take a plea once you accept it, you already know what your sentence will be. And, when people go to trial, usually they wear a suit and try to put their best face on.

But let me ask you this and let me know your feeling, because I've got a feeling and it's kinda related to what you said. The judged DID NOT like my husband AT ALL. He felt his record was atrocious, and with every charge, there was an alias so as they read the aliases off, it seemed to take a good 3 minutes to name them all. It sounded so bad that my husband even said "dayum!!"

Also, when it was time to agree/admit to the plea, because my husband said he wasn't guilty of what they charged him with, it was very difficult for him to admit to it. He was hesitant, he was nervous, and he was also concerned about whether or not I was gonna roll with him. When he wasn't in the courtroom the judge, who they said was one of the worsts (from Queens County) and had a rep for being harsh when it comes to committing offenses in Queens when you're not from Queens, and the clerks were making comments. He made it seem like my husband was acting like a "tuff guy" in the courtroom, when actually, he wasn't. It's just that usually, he's guilty of what they bring him in on, but on this case, things didn't happen the way it was said. The judge even made a comment "you wanna be a tuff guy, let's see how tuff you are in prison."

Once my husband left reception they sent him to one of the furtherest places. I told my husband I can't help but to believe that the Judged made comments for reception to SEND HIM FAR. Maybe because I was very supportive and very positive in the courtroom and maybe he felt with distance like that, that my husband wouldn't get many visits. Also, after 2 years you can transfer. My husband has been approved a year already for a bed, yet "a bed has not opened" in the faciity where he requested to go, so for a year, he's still waiting to be transferred.

Sorry for the long story but what my wondering is is that the judge made comments in his report that my husband be sent far away and that he stay at that location for as long as possible. I call Albany all the time and they tell me the same thing -- when a bed opens up, he'll be transferred. My husband on the other hand said the judge has nothing to do with it, that even if the judge did make recommendations, that once he leaves county and hits state, that what the judge said is dead and whatever reception wants to do is how things will be done. What my question to you (or any other person who works with judges or in the courtroom or even in a reception state prison) is do you have any idea how much impact judges' recommendations/notes/comments play once the prisoner leaves county and transitions onto state?

lyteeydlwyr
01-10-2007, 09:51 AM
Well, alot of people do take pleas, so when you take a plea once you accept it, you already know what your sentence will be. And, when people go to trial, usually they wear a suit and try to put their best face on.

But let me ask you this and let me know your feeling, because I've got a feeling and it's kinda related to what you said. The judged DID NOT like my husband AT ALL. He felt his record was atrocious, and with every charge, there was an alias so as they read the aliases off, it seemed to take a good 3 minutes to name them all. It sounded so bad that my husband even said "dayum!!"

Also, when it was time to agree/admit to the plea, because my husband said he wasn't guilty of what they charged him with, it was very difficult for him to admit to it. He was hesitant, he was nervous, and he was also concerned about whether or not I was gonna roll with him. When he wasn't in the courtroom the judge, who they said was one of the worsts (from Queens County) and had a rep for being harsh when it comes to committing offenses in Queens when you're not from Queens, and the clerks were making comments. He made it seem like my husband was acting like a "tuff guy" in the courtroom, when actually, he wasn't. It's just that usually, he's guilty of what they bring him in on, but on this case, things didn't happen the way it was said. The judge even made a comment "you wanna be a tuff guy, let's see how tuff you are in prison."

Once my husband left reception they sent him to one of the furtherest places. I told my husband I can't help but to believe that the Judged made comments for reception to SEND HIM FAR. Maybe because I was very supportive and very positive in the courtroom and maybe he felt with distance like that, that my husband wouldn't get many visits. Also, after 2 years you can transfer. My husband has been approved a year already for a bed, yet "a bed has not opened" in the faciity where he requested to go, so for a year, he's still waiting to be transferred.

Sorry for the long story but what my wondering is is that the judge made comments in his report that my husband be sent far away and that he stay at that location for as long as possible. I call Albany all the time and they tell me the same thing -- when a bed opens up, he'll be transferred. My husband on the other hand said the judge has nothing to do with it, that even if the judge did make recommendations, that once he leaves county and hits state, that what the judge said is dead and whatever reception wants to do is how things will be done. What my question to you (or any other person who works with judges or in the courtroom or even in a reception state prison) is do you have any idea how much impact judges' recommendations/notes/comments play once the prisoner leaves county and transitions onto state?

I am an ADA in NY and the judge has nothing to do with where the defendant is sent. That is totally up to the NY DOC and it's based on numerous factors. We in the court have nothing to do with where any defendants are sent other than whether we recommend prison or a treatment facility. that's about the extent of our involvement. your husband is correct in what he said.

HeSoHandsome
01-10-2007, 11:02 AM
. . . HeSo....you asked if the judge who had anything to do with your husbands sentencing had anything to do with where he was sent. . . . And I would have to say, probably not. . . . Peace,
Sammi528
I am an ADA in NY and the judge has nothing to do with where the defendant is sent. That is totally up to the NY DOC and it's based on numerous factors. We in the court have nothing to do with where any defendants are sent other than whether we recommend prison or a treatment facility. that's about the extent of our involvement. your husband is correct in what he said.
Thanks ladies -- that's good to know, and I appreciate the feedback. :thumbsup:

Wobabi
01-10-2007, 09:27 PM
This was an excellent post
Babi (Living in the Land of Profilers)

I do think the national statistics are pretty clear on this, although I think the extent of the discrimination varies from region to region. I don't know that it matters, but in my city, I think the big discrimination comes more from the police force than from the DA or the judge. I couldn't swear to the numbers, but if you walk in one of the court rooms in my county you don't need a calculator to see that the majority of defendants are young black males. I don't know that they receive harsher sentences, but I think they are brought in on charges more often than the any other group. Alot of arrests seem to be from profiling and targeting certain neighborhoods. However in Federal Court, where my husband was sentenced, that did not seem to be the case. I will also say, honestly this is not because he is my husband, but it is an absolute fact that his sentence was much harsher, relative to his role in the offense, than his co-defendants. Discrimination is terrible, so is reverse discrimination. Outcomes based on race rather that facts are always unjust. The judge was black, the co-defendants were black and there is no doubt hubby got nailed. Even the AUSA and the co-defendant's attorneys told my husband's attorney that he got too much time. Inspite of this, I voted that I do believe that minorities get harsher sentences, because I think this is generally true. However, our case was the exception to this.

SBHurling
01-10-2007, 10:14 PM
I haven't read all of the posts so I don't know everyone's feelings on the matter, but I do believe that minorities are receiving harsher sentences. last semester in my sociology course there was statistical information to prove this. Minorities generally have poor representation and are seen as more of a threat to society than caucasians.

mg113
01-14-2007, 04:00 PM
Hispanic woman MOTHER, WIFE, mother of my sons highschool friend when he was a junior (16) sending text messages ( in california) to my son solicit the sale of heroine to him and some of his other friends while at school, messages like 2 for 1 today .. anyhow she was busted (after the kids got clean ) and charged with 13 felony counts including having her 6 yr old involved, had 6 lbs meth ( she sold meth coke and h) a pound of coke and heroine, on tape selling at a coffee shop near the hs, GET THIS SHE WILL GET PROBATION (first offense) UNLESS MY SON TESTIFIES... AND THEY HAVE THE TEXT MESSAGES .. this is in california.. go figure

deidra100
01-18-2007, 08:01 PM
Well, I Think The System Needs To Look At Thereself Bacause They Should Have To Go By Guidelines Just Like Federal. Now In Federal That Have A Chart And For What You Do They Cant Impose A High Or Low Sentence By Who You Are. And State Should Be Required To Do The Same. It Doens T Matter About The Race Just Offering One 5 Years And Nother 40 For The Same Crime Is Rediculous If You Ask Me.

YapYap
01-19-2007, 05:06 AM
My humble contribution to this debate consists of this news paper article I read today that addresses this very issue: http://www.sacbee.com/110/story/110051.html

Greggysgirl
01-22-2007, 10:20 PM
I'm not trying to cause any uproar, but, in my honest opinion, I think that in most instances, minorities are "let off" a whole lot easier than caucasians in fear of racism. I think that if you are in fault of a crime, then it should be completely equal unless the crime has been committed on more than one occasion and then I could see where harsher sentencing should be introduced. But that is just my opinion, just like the opinion that others have that caucasians are "let off" easier than minorities.

hesgettinout06
02-04-2007, 05:56 PM
I'm not trying to cause any uproar, but, in my honest opinion, I think that in most instances, minorities are "let off" a whole lot easier than caucasians in fear of racism.

if this is true then how do you explain the fact that african americans only represent like 12% of the population but we represent more than 50% of the prison population. these statistics show that minorities are "let off??" & these stats only include african americans. not to mention other minorities.

Kimi06
02-19-2007, 11:07 AM
Yes I agree because my brother and friends representation was
So poor and sad it makes you angry, both have life sentenes
Its heartbreaking especially when you know had they had
Money for correct lawyers and was not looked upon as
2 minorities they would have been cut half that time...
Sad....As the other young ladies this is not just a opinion
It is what I have experienced in watched in the court room
With my own eyes.....

HeSoHandsome
02-19-2007, 07:40 PM
I don't think minorities get harsher sentences. I think whites do because whites are needed on the inside to help keep the numbers competitive in terms of when the guys group up by race.

Minority heads are growing in there but because whites are given an easy pass -- many times from the moment the cop lays eyes on him -- it may of been thought that the white numbers would not be competitive with the other races in terms of strength in numbers by race on the inside. To help keep the white heads count somewhat competitive so that as a group they'll have a fighting chance, for the ones who do make it to trial and blow HE'S gotta pay by getting a harsher sentence because that'll keep him in there longer.

I think it's part of the system, and if it sounds crazy then doesn't that mean it fits right in with all the other Corrections' whathaveyous? :o

mamatries
02-19-2007, 08:38 PM
I Have Read Most Of This Thread And What I See Is If Your A Minority You Feel You Get Treated Worse And If You Are White You Feel You Are Treated Worse. What We All Have In Common Is Someone We Love Is In Prison. Lets Use Our Energy To Help Them All.

june5
02-19-2007, 09:32 PM
]I Have Read Most Of This Thread And What I See Is If Your A Minority You Feel You Get Treated Worse And If You Are White You Feel You Are Treated Worse[/b]. What We All Have In Common Is Someone We Love Is In Prison. Lets Use Our Energy To Help Them All.

Interesting...how do you know what race all of these posters are? I myself am white.

This is one of those debates that I just don't understand...it is 100% proven that minorities recieve harsher sentences than whites. I guess this is just one of those things where people will believe whatever they want to believe, regardless of evidence to the contrary.

Sure, there are white people who have gotten harsher sentences than maybe a black person who committed the same crime received.

My husband is black and he got a very lenient sentence compared to what I know some white people have received based on the same charge. But I don't think, wow, most white people must be getting harsher sentences....that is ridiculous. The overall numbers are there, minorities do recieve the harshest sentences.

Sorry, most of this is as absurd to me as arguing over whether the earth is flat. This one has already been proven, too.

HeSoHandsome
02-20-2007, 07:25 AM
. . . This is one of those debates that I just don't understand...it is 100% proven that minorities recieve harsher sentences than whites. . .
hi juney -- where can I find that proof. I did no research, I didn't read the full thread, and I'm thinking totally left field on this because you gotta think crazy to be able to mentally tap into crazy when trying to figure corrections out.

But if I can see some proof, I will welcome it. What proof I see is everywhere I visit I see PLENTY of minorities while the whites only take up a small portion. Now I know everybody don't get visits so I don't see it all, I just know no matter what prison I visit, what it looks like to me is sure does look like white folks don't do nuthin when I know they do because people of all races do things. So my thinking is the ones who do get through and make it to trial, that they serve them up royally (w/crazy time) because they need whites on the inside too.

I also think that the whites who do make it as far as trial, that the System does not care about those whites which is why I believe they get harsher sentences. Race is so funny that according to the racist System we have in place that all whites ain't whites -- some the system cares about while others they could really give a rats ass.

Fars minorities making it as far as trial and then getting sentenced -- I don't really think they sweat us that much because we enter the system in NUMBERS. We don't just trickle in, so they got a plenty us in there, so that during those times when the prisoners separate by group, the minority groups be having the numers.

So point me where to go to find this 100% proof because one of the reasons I'm here on PTO is to learn some things that I don't be sure of. Like this issue for instance where I am purely guessing. Thanks. :o

june5
02-20-2007, 09:01 AM
Here's an article about just one study; there are many more. You can click on the link to read the full study.

I would have to locate a link to a study on this one, but in law school I was told that blacks receive the death penalty 4 times more than whites who are also convicted of capital murder.

United States: Stark Race Disparities in Drug Incarceration

Some states send black men to prison at rates 27 to 57 times greater than whites

The U.S. war on drugs has been waged overwhelmingly against black Americans, Human Rights Watch charged in a new report released today. The report, "Punishment and Prejudice: Racial Disparities in the War on Drugs (http://www.hrw.org/reports/2000/usa/)," includes the first state-by-state analysis of the role of race and drugs in prison admissions. All of the 37 states Human Rights Watch studied send black drug offenders to prison at far higher rates than whites.

sligoker
02-20-2007, 09:04 AM
The fact remains that sentencing has so many variables involved that it is difficult to draw a bead on a particular cases in particular courts and come to some rational conclusion.

HeSoHandsome
02-20-2007, 09:43 AM
. . . Some states send black men to prison at rates 27 to 57 times greater than whites . . .
Thanks juney, I'll read the material. As I said though, I know the minorities are going in in record numbers. There's no question there -- the answers in the information you provide I'll be looking for is AFTER GOING TO TRIAL THEN BEING SENTENCED, WHO RECEIVES HARSHER SENTENCES -- MINORITIES OR WHITES.

And, I also know if they want someone [off the streets] whether they have anything on them or not does not matter, that they will get that person off the streets giving them a crapload of time. What I'm really interested in is not the "vendetta type cases like that", and I do consider death penalty cases to be vendetta types because those people do not have to be put to death. Those two set aside, I'm interested in seeing disparities of who gets harsher sentences after trial -- black or whites.

june5
02-20-2007, 10:01 AM
Here are the hard numbers for ya, HeSo:

http://sentencing.typepad.com/sentencing_law_and_policy/2004/12/racial_disparit.html

...while the average federal prison sentence for black offenders was about five months longer than for whites in 1984, by 2001, the average sentence for blacks was almost 30 months longer....

Just to add, there are other factors that could be going into these results...but as far as results, black people do receive longer sentences.

A Florida study found that blacks in that state did receive harsher sentences. However, it was chalked up to those black defendants having more factors (such as prior criminal history) that justified those sentences.

HeSoHandsome
02-20-2007, 10:17 AM
Thanks juney, I'mma come back and read all of that. I gave PTO Monday -- Tuesday I'm divvying up among my husband, me and the house because tomorrow, it's back to work.

I can relate to the Florida thing, because my husband has been getting regular sentences. But his next one will be HARSH he's been warned -- not because he's black but because of his history. My friend's man just came home 2 years ago after pullin 19 years -- not for being black but because of his history because the offense in itself was worth only a couple a years. So them two wouldn't count.

The way I'm thinking, everything is gonna have to be looked at, so thanks for lookin out!! :o

Kimi06
02-20-2007, 12:30 PM
I agree mamatries its not a white or black issue its our system and its
Based on money thats ruff for me cause I am both half white and half black so it isnt a battle here either way our love ones our pressing time
Lets deal with the real facts of whats going on.....Love all you ladies
God Bless

SaraTony2005
02-21-2007, 04:15 PM
i definatly think that blacks/hispanics get harsher sentances. Tony has a robbery charge. he got 10 years 85% mandatory. Tony is black. My ex that is white has now been to prison twice in the last 5 years and served less than 18 months both times. he had 2 charges each time and still did only 18 months. my ex has also while on parole this last time racked up EIGHT new charges since only June, one of them being contempt of court for violating his no contact order with me. his Parole officer won't violate him because they are "minor" charges. i don't think that is fair. also here in Iowa if he was Black he would have been sent back to prison at the first violation.

HeSoHandsome
02-21-2007, 09:36 PM
. . . Tony has a robbery charge. he got 10 years 85% mandatory. . . .
Just curious -- is this his first conviction? And, if so, what was the race of his victim(s)?

Itamedthelion
02-22-2007, 11:08 PM
I don't think its race, but I think it has more to do with income. From what I see, most that get arrested and end up in prison are those less fortunate who can't afford a good attorney, and that usually has something to do with race and who is targeted more for arrests.

Its a little bit of Race, MUCH MORE-SO its to do with income, but also ATTITUDE. Like ok tell me this is fair, my man 1st offence for burglary and selling marijuana GOT 30 F* YEARS (the max)
Hes very blunt, white and poor as hell (when he went in)

so i think its a combination of a lot of things, also where he got in trouble has a lot to do with it too. The justice system now adays is so corrupt you wouldnt even believe it.

So is the DOC
there the worst.....

I thought justice was blind...nope its got its eyes wide open.

sligoker
02-23-2007, 07:58 AM
Again, its hard to judge based on limited information. I assume this is an armed robbery, and I am not sure how much marijuana he was caught with. As other have said, 30 years is fairly common when you use a gun the commission of a robbery.

GHOTI
02-26-2007, 05:50 PM
I'm going with Sligoker here. We all tend to think all crimes are identical. While the actual violations may be, the variables the judges consider are as varied as the docket numbers.

And we also have to remember that judges are people, not machines. They can (and often ARE) influenced, both pro and con, by a multitude of inputs.

You got a gang history? Quit school the day you turned 17? Your mother thrown up her hands in frustrated disgust? You been getting yourself fired from every job you've had at a rate of every 60 days? Big one: You got priors? Not just convictions, but arrests, too. Everybody the investigators talked to tell them the truth about you? Most of us should sure hope not! They catch you dirty... no matter how small?

Now, apply all these (and a lot more) questions to your acquaintances..... NOW you are REALLY getting into the deep water!

So, as Sligoker said...... you CANNOT go on just the limited information ALL of us attempt to operate on.

Fair? No. But FACTS.

It is all but impossible to compare cases side-by-side unless they are identical in every last detail. Including same judge, same day, same time.

So, the big question might really be this: If we know and believe all this unfair stuff goes on, what the heck are we doing risking our lives and futures on those odds?

I think it's unfair a shark can out swim me. So, I don't get into the water with one.

lanello
03-16-2007, 04:32 PM
My son is white, just 27 and his 1st offense. He got 10 1/2 monthes in a state prison. Personally I do see racism playing a part in how people are perceived. It sickens me to think people could judge someone differently depending on color. My son had a court appointed lawyer and my son contacted the police right when he committed the crime(right thing morally-bad legally) He got slammed. I still am bothered by the injustice and mistruth. The victim was able to say after she chased him and either got on the car or put her hand on the car the car knocked her down. One version of (my personal favorite) she was dragged through the parking lot. Later she said her sleeve got caught on the windshield and she fell back. It was broad daylight in the summer with about 200 to 400 people in the parking lot. No one saw any of this happen. The police said she refused an ambulance and he saw no injuries. The point.....they saw a drug addict----bottom line. Even though this crime was 5 years ago and he contacted the police. They SAW A DRUG ADDICT. If he did one thing he might have done the other. No prove. no witnesses.And his lawyer told him not to take the stand.
I have sat on jury duty in NH and I can honestly say color did not matter. The jurors I sat with looked at facts and facts only. I was proud of the job we did. But I did see a few black men cop a plea at the last second and I wondered did they look @ so many whites faces and wonder how could thes be my peers. I was saddened by that thought. I wondered how I would feel if I was the defendent and 11 jurors were black and 1 white.......So many questions and so many left unsaid. I need to let it go.......God has a plan and my son is strong and wants to do his time and move on. He laughs at the victim and her embellishments because it is so obviously drama but he does not diminish the fact that HE DID WRONG and never wants to be that person again.
This was way more than I wanted to say and I obviously am sitting on a fence in re: to race being a factor lol. peace

MadDog's Love
07-09-2007, 12:27 AM
It's been like this for YEARS!!! It's a shame but this is America, where they are scared to lose the white race.... My thoughts anyway..

jayton
07-09-2007, 04:41 PM
It's been like this for YEARS!!! It's a shame but this is America, where they are scared to lose the white race.... My thoughts anyway..

I know its all whiteys fault that blacks, and browns are in prison, cause whitey dont want to be losing the race? My thoughts are most folks in prison done been convicted of a crime sending them to da prison hous..Ya know wat I be sayin

Itamedthelion
07-09-2007, 05:27 PM
I think it is moreso money than race. My honeys FIRST offence got him 30 years, where if he had a lawyer he would of gotten less. But no, we're poor, so he got the max possible for his crime.

soleharmony1123
07-10-2007, 09:08 PM
I've worked with a few attorneys who specialized in criminal law. My take on it is for the minorities, specifically African-Americans, Latinos, etc., they dig for all the dirt they can find to justify rightful/lawful convictions..whereas for others, i.e., Caucasians, it seems they dig and pry for every possible reason/justification for why that person should NOT be convicted...i.e., digging up psych records, etc., social service issues, etc. and they argue that the person was abused as a child, sexually molested as a child, fell and hit his head as a child, was homeless as a child, was run over as a child, (of course, I'm exaggerating grossly with this one and I apologize for using a child for such a heinous incident/example) but I'm just demonstrating to what lengths I've seen them go to keep Caucasian males out of jail or out of the system...!!!! especially those with money...

It's like someone stated earlier...those with money fare a lot better when it comes down to 'meeting the judge.'

Sad but true...

Cesa
07-11-2007, 02:21 PM
I agree, i think minorities get harsher sentences as well, but i also believe that it depends on how much you can spend on an attorney.

niuyoricanpr
07-11-2007, 02:51 PM
...and who you know in the system.

MadDog's Love
08-01-2007, 09:54 PM
My last thread I posted on here got deleted for WHATEVER purpose so I'll try this again. Yes I do believe that minorites get harser punshiment than whites.. It's been like that for years.. Sad but TRUE! Good topic by the way...:)

TedEBare
08-02-2007, 10:56 AM
Yes, I believe that minorities get heavier sentences. However, PLEASE refrain from putting all of us "whities" in the same boat. I am 43 years old and I can't think of one time EVER that I have judged a person due to skin color.

ToTheSimpsons
08-02-2007, 11:05 AM
Yes, I believe that minorities get heavier sentences. However, PLEASE refrain from putting all of us "whities" in the same boat. I am 43 years old and I can't think of one time EVER that I have judged a person due to skin color.

I 2nd that.

babymama118
08-02-2007, 04:48 PM
I believe that minorities are arrested in higher numbers than others, period. So what happens is more so a forlonged conclusion. Especially since most have the public defenders. No rocket scientist needed there, huh? So no, I really don't know what you are saying.

Forever_Lovers
08-02-2007, 04:54 PM
I doubt race or income plays a factor in the term handed down. It all depends on the crime committed. Every case is different - you cannot compare one against the other.

I whole-heartedly disagree with your statement. I have talked with several lawyers over the phone giving them the specifics of my husbands case. Speaking very professional and was told that my husband should have only received 3 years for what he was charged with, especially with it being a first offense. My mother-in-law went to several of these same lawyers face to face and a few of those lawyers, had changed what they said. They believed he was fairly prosecuted. While it is true that every case is different race plays heavily in the court. You can compare each case because though there are differences the main similarities are there, meaning those that count towards time. NO government statistics could tell me otherwise. The system is designed to keep minorities down and out.

Minerva
08-28-2007, 02:10 PM
Minority is a very vast word and mighty. It is also mightily cast. Hope this would change, but it appears we all feed into it and make it worse. A person is a person. Anyone convicted of a crime should be treated with fairness and reasonable process. I remember being a teenager in high school with fairly good grades and a remark a teacher made for them was that it was pretty good considering where I came from. When I asked what that meant, the reply was that where I lived and that I came from a single family environment.
Well, folk, I've not been in jail. Do have kin in. I survived and actually went forwardly as much as I've been able to. And, I feel really good about myself for that. Still don't feel good about discrimination however. Went to college at age 39 (they laughed and thought I couldn't do it) and passed with good grades (I read and reread and reread my homework) and then took some other courses. Never made me rich (only in my heart and head) but I got a better job. Never look down on others for no one can walk in another's shoes unless the shoes are his and he has been down and down there and wearing them shoes. I would tend to believe that society does see some of us as throwaways for many reasons, and that being a minority could be one of them. I believe in reality and the realities of it all. Minority could be being of a certain race, denomination, type, etc, to include being poor.....along with this is politics...a very ugly thing....and filling prison beds is a money maker along with all of its programs and it does not rehab but imprisons one's soul even more. We all need jobs and family or family support. This does not mean village idiocy. Just my opinion. Certainly would hope that justice is fair, merciful, and swift. But...in looking around....it's questionable. Can't make a vote here because it's too complicated for either a yes or no.

northstar
08-29-2007, 02:11 AM
I don't think its race, but I think it has more to do with income. From what I see, most that get arrested and end up in prison are those less fortunate who can't afford a good attorney, and that usually has something to do with race and who is targeted more for arrests.

Maine is 96% caucasion.....race is a divisive issue. The sooner that people wake up to the fact that prisons and the US judicial system are instilling and perpetuating a class war, the easier it will be to work together to change things. As long as any "minority" (which caucasions are rapidly becoming in the US: the Latino population is the fastest growing "minority" in the US, and in some states THEY are the majority now, not "whites"...in Maine the growth of the Latino population exceeds the national percentage.....Go figure :-)) feels singled out or targeted exclusively, the less they are willing to work collectively with people of other races to end this nightmare. As long as we are divided against ourselves, the less power, collectively, we'll have and/or share together. That is EXACTLY what our government wants. ....Everything that our government does to divide us, every "racist" act that it commits...is for the purpose of dividing ourselves against our selves. In basketball, it's called the pick and roll....it's a fake-out. ...Why else do you think our military used US 'copters to fly shipments of drugs from Columbia into American ghettos as the war on drugs was beginning?

Actually, the extent of racism, open and covert, within the walls of PTO, is astounding and sad...but it's not surprising, all things considered. ...Let me ask you something: What race/color/nationality of people has been victimized THE MOST? (Blacks? Mexicans? Native Americans? Jews? Acadians? Polish? Irish? Asians? Darfur? ....Serbians? Chechans?...Women?) ...the list goes on and on....all of the groups I've mentioned have suffered GROSS victimization, genocide, and attempted annihilation...we MUST separate ourselves from our indignation over our victimization, put aside our differences and work together to attack the REAL perpetrator.

Lane's sis
08-30-2007, 07:33 AM
I don't think that it's race , but i do think that it's one of two things. It's either who you know or how much money you have. My brother got five years on a first offence and two days later a guy was caught for the same drug cahrge and many others added to taht with a severe criminal record and he only got 18 months and they are both white, what's up with that?

erinmichaels
09-03-2007, 08:06 PM
Today, I was just browsing some of the Department of Corrections website and I noticed something strange about some of the time being served. So I questioned a family member,who works for the justice system about my concern.For example, I have seen black men on the DOC website that are in for their 1st offense and have gotten the max number of years while the others,who have numberous offenses and who have worse crimes get lesser years than the men with the 1st offense!:angry: What's up with that?!? I just wanted to know has anyone noticed that too. Is it true that the justice system still gives minorities harsher sentences than caucasians??


I served 13 years 3 months and 23 days for an ATTEMPTED robbery.

With the sentences I saw while I was in, 2 things come to mind: 1) if you dont snitch-you get hammered. and 2) if your black-you can appeal for reasons of racial discrimination.

I was a 21 year old white man when I was sentenced. I didnt tell. I didnt take a cop. I went to trial. I did an excessive amount of time for my conviction compared to blacks/hispanics/ and even alot of other white.

But then again, I caught my case in Lansing Mi. not Detroit. Dont ever do that.

Rox73
09-04-2007, 01:40 PM
Maine is 96% caucasion.....race is a divisive issue. The sooner that people wake up to the fact that prisons and the US judicial system are instilling and perpetuating a class war, the easier it will be to work together to change things. As long as any "minority" (which caucasions are rapidly becoming in the US: the Latino population is the fastest growing "minority" in the US, and in some states THEY are the majority now, not "whites"...in Maine the growth of the Latino population exceeds the national percentage.....Go figure :-)) feels singled out or targeted exclusively, the less they are willing to work collectively with people of other races to end this nightmare. As long as we are divided against ourselves, the less power, collectively, we'll have and/or share together. That is EXACTLY what our government wants. ....Everything that our government does to divide us, every "racist" act that it commits...is for the purpose of dividing ourselves against our selves. In basketball, it's called the pick and roll....it's a fake-out. ...Why else do you think our military used US 'copters to fly shipments of drugs from Columbia into American ghettos as the war on drugs was beginning?

Actually, the extent of racism, open and covert, within the walls of PTO, is astounding and sad...but it's not surprising, all things considered. ...Let me ask you something: What race/color/nationality of people has been victimized THE MOST? (Blacks? Mexicans? Native Americans? Jews? Acadians? Polish? Irish? Asians? Darfur? ....Serbians? Chechans?...Women?) ...the list goes on and on....all of the groups I've mentioned have suffered GROSS victimization, genocide, and attempted annihilation...we MUST separate ourselves from our indignation over our victimization, put aside our differences and work together to attack the REAL perpetrator.

Excellent post... couldn't agree more! Especially what I underlined and bolded...

ms. M
09-07-2007, 07:34 AM
Yes, I agree with you on this,I work with ex-offenders. I have some that have commited the same offence and they have gotton less time. Just for example I have a white guy with murder and sex offence and he is out on parole after spending 10 years in prision, and i have a friend with just the murder, has been in for over 15 years or more. here is another one lets do lesser offence. Possession of controlled substance white 5 years out in 3, black hispanic same offence 25 years. this is just not fair. but what can we do.

tweedybird
09-16-2007, 08:59 PM
I"m sure there are web sites like the bureau of crime and justice that have figures on this, and separate it by income and race.

I think when people won't plea and go to trial, it's a crap shoot.

natnatgirl
09-18-2007, 08:01 PM
I don't know if race has anything to do with them going to prison or not, but I do think race has alot to do with how they are treated once they are in prison. For example, my man is a full- blooded Native American. The prison is shipping off every single Native American in that place to different prisons because of something a white man said. This is not the first time they have done stuff like this. It seems like anytime something goes wrong, they are the first ones to go to the hole.

Elley
03-01-2008, 08:46 AM
From my experience here in the Northern Territory, I can tell minorities do get harsher sentences and guess what Minority is the white man. The prison up here is racist in reverse. Indigenous get a lot more privledges and lessers sentences. There is a ratio of approx 1 White to 9 Black with inmates and guards. As I come from Adelaide and only have oved here as my BF is in prison here, I was NOT racisit untill I moved to the Territory....

walkintall
03-03-2008, 05:01 AM
an old thread but obviously a hot topic. having served quite a few years i can say i've never seen anyone get more time because of race. what i can say without a doubt is sentencing varries quite a bit between courts/area. seen the same crimes commited in different areas result in different sentences. reguardless of race. can't speak for other states but there is a definate difference here by location. for instance, a person that get's caught with pos. w/intent to distribute , a small amount of class a or b drugs can expect a sentence twice as harsh as someone in the inner city courts. what nets a few years in state here results in probation there. there are always exceptions. on the other hand, i met many who got hit with the 3rd strike law in city courts and know many here who are 3, even 4th time offenders. having 3-4 state bids in and i've never seen a single person get hit with this law in this area.

mrschris
03-05-2008, 08:51 AM
Whos runnin the hood? It aint whitey is it? Hmmm something to think about huh.

a white man runs my hood, all day, every day!

abrister
03-05-2008, 09:41 AM
I hate it when people try to throw the income into it though..
I hate it when people always try to make it a race thing!

walkintall
03-06-2008, 04:51 AM
lol.. the only color that maters is GREEN :) i'm walking proof. got convitced for escape from a walled facility back in 1989. got sentenced to 9-10 years for it. while in picked up more time and also a SECOND escape charge :eek: (didn't like being confined :) ) anyway, when i got extradited back to ma. i was lucky enough to hook up with someone who knew a very powerfull lawyer. it cost me nearly every cent i had but the outcome was amazing. SECOND offense, i recieved a whopping 30 days concurrent. imagine that. they kept moving my court date forward and by the time i was sentenced i had only 8 months left :dance:. wow, the d.o.c. was PISSED! they re-classified me to maximum security with only 8 months left knowing by the time i was transfered i'd have less than 4 months remianing on my sentence. i walked out of max a free man. no parole, probation, nothing. funny thing, i never looked back. almost 9 years now. count my lucky stars :) no one could ever convince me otherwise, it's all about the green.

DestinysChild
03-07-2008, 12:53 AM
I second, third & fourth that.......

It IS all about the green....

absolutely a fact of truth

Glad you got out walkin'.........

walkintall
03-07-2008, 08:13 AM
Glad you got out walkin'.........[/quote]

me too;) even better that i used the oppertunity to keep myself out of prison. :cool::D

krainium
03-07-2008, 08:44 AM
He who has the financial means, can beat almost anything!

twixnstix
03-07-2008, 09:26 AM
well, IMO, i think that race is somewhat a reason, but i think its mostly the judges prefrence... ie, my step brother (who is mexican) has done years for something stupid like probation violation, while friends of mine get work furlough for a few months or just a fine. but, my man (who is white) is getting thrown the book because the judge just doesnt like him... 16 years for assult (one hit) when it was self defense... come on now, and he has a pretty good lawyer. but i guess it has alot to do with money, i mean, how many celebs do you see staying in jail for max time? almost none! they get away with just about anything.

Rox73
03-09-2008, 06:56 PM
lol.. the only color that maters is GREEN :) i'm walking proof. got convitced for escape from a walled facility back in 1989. got sentenced to 9-10 years for it. while in picked up more time and also a SECOND escape charge :eek: (didn't like being confined :) ) anyway, when i got extradited back to ma. i was lucky enough to hook up with someone who knew a very powerfull lawyer. it cost me nearly every cent i had but the outcome was amazing. SECOND offense, i recieved a whopping 30 days concurrent. imagine that. they kept moving my court date forward and by the time i was sentenced i had only 8 months left :dance:. wow, the d.o.c. was PISSED! they re-classified me to maximum security with only 8 months left knowing by the time i was transfered i'd have less than 4 months remianing on my sentence. i walked out of max a free man. no parole, probation, nothing. funny thing, i never looked back. almost 9 years now. count my lucky stars :) no one could ever convince me otherwise, it's all about the green.

I think you're absolutely right about that.

My personal opinion is that the focus is too much on what divides people (ie. color, ethnic background, sexual orientation) - when exactly THAT is what keeps this world the warzone that it is. And WE re-enforce that mentality by blaming this and that on these or those groups of "other" people. It's that "us vs. them" thing. It has to stop somewhere... we have to stop living in the past - there will be NO progress otherwise. There is a difference between living in the past and learning from the past.

Like George Carlin said - I love and treasure individuals as I meet them; I loathe and despise the groups they identify with and belong to.

redhaired_dolly
03-09-2008, 09:37 PM
I think a lot of times it has to do with race. Just look at the laws. A certain amount of crack in possession gets you more time than the same amount of cocaine. Who does that mostly target? But more often than not, I think it comes down to money. There are a lot of factors in individual cases for sure. But the money walks.

jeffsue1999
03-09-2008, 09:42 PM
I don't think it has to do with race, my white middle class son got the top of his sentencing box and another white middle class guy who did multiple (17+) crimes one that was the same charge as my son got to run all of his concurrent so he will only do six months more than my son. I think it depends on the mood of the judge, and who is present in the court room!!!! Our judge sang a whole different tune when the victims rights lady was present. TOTAL change before she said "he did nothing to hurt society these were just schedule problems" went from that at one appearence to "let's call this what it is, it is not like you were out burglarizing cars or doing drugs, this was a crime against a minor." I :confused: don't know maybe she didn't get her wheaties that morning or something. Definalely sentences are not fair, but I don't think it is a race thing. In my county WHO you are and WHO you are related to have ALOT to do with it. :angry:

TedEBare
03-10-2008, 07:06 AM
I think a lot of times it has to do with race. Just look at the laws. A certain amount of crack in possession gets you more time than the same amount of cocaine. Who does that mostly target? But more often than not, I think it comes down to money. There are a lot of factors in individual cases for sure. But the money walks.

I think crack goes along economical lines, not race lines. And, it does seem that crack charges get you more than coke charges. I hear many more derogatory names for crack addicts than coke addicts.

walkintall
03-11-2008, 05:52 AM
ya know, i've been thinking about this subject some. i have to say, altho i think it's 99% money there still might be some truth to minorities getting harsher sentencing. example- while i was in fayetteville NC. awaiting extradition to ma. took a couple of days but after earning respect, got to know a few dudes quite well. leanred ALOT about their system too. one of the things i was shocked to find was that the feds picked up almost ALL drug charges! all with the exception of very minor posession. in all the years i've been in ma. state prison i can't ever remember any case with someone being charged by the feds for any drug crime unless it was MAJOR trafficing or included other things like R.I.C.O. ect. these where drug charges that were NOTHING serious. the point, the feds have something like a 90% conviction rate! one could certainly come to the conclusion it's a race thing or perhaps that a LARGE majority of these people in this jail are/were dirt poor....?? you decide. as far as ma. goes tho. i really can't say i've seen much difference.
yawncosbabygirl, you have a good point too. altho i believe the penalty for crack was designed to be tougher than powder because of it's higher concentration of actual illegal product. while along those lines (no pun intended) there are more in the inner city being charged with crack vs. powder but i would argue that i'd MUCH rather be caught with crack in the city than in the burbs. in my area anyway, you would get a sentence that looked more like a telephone number . kind of off subject but another thing that's always confused me was mandatory sentencing for weight alone. why is it that a person with 1oz of powder that is 22% pure not charged with 22% of an ounce of cocaine? the other 78% being over the counter/non illegal substances.....??? probably one for the war on drugs section of the forum i guess:D

allmb
03-22-2008, 09:41 AM
I apologize in advance for not giving references for these statistics. I was once an advocate for a group that worked regularly with such stats and many were committed to memory - this is one of them. I can tell you that the figures are correct (rounded to a whole number) and that the information was taken from US Department of Justice figures.

Average sentence for vehicular homicide conviction when the victim is:

A white woman: 7 years
A white man: 4 years
A black man: 2 years

I would assume that the race and gender of the guilty party plays into it as well - but clearly 'who' the victim is plays a part.

angel12569
05-05-2008, 06:33 AM
I think it also depends on the judge. I know someone who is incarerated with my husband, who was out on parole, and violated doing the same thing my husband did. He got only three years, my husband got a flat seven. He has a very lenghty record, with lots of felonies , this is my husband's first felony. The both had PD, the other guy is a minority. So I also think it depends on the judge too.

smallngood
05-05-2008, 07:12 AM
It is not a race thing- -the expression from the inside- -"money talks, B.S. walks"- -very true.

ReggiesLady
05-05-2008, 09:55 AM
I think anyone who says race isn't an issue (ESPECIALLY IN TEXAS!) is out of their mind. I've worked in and around the court system for way to long to believe that anything but money AND race play a big role in lots of sentences handed down. Just to prove a point, a friend of mine who is white was dealing drugs and got caught with a certain amount of drugs on him and got 90 days in county jail, 200 hours community service and 4 years probation. One of my ex-boyfriends who is black was caught with MUCH less than my friend was caught with and he got 6 months in county jail, 500 hours community service and 8 years probation. Come on! Not to mention I know several attorneys who are ex-D.A.'s who will flat tell you that race plays a part of things from the "higher ups." NOT TO MENTION THE PRISON POPULATION STATS!

Smurff465261
05-05-2008, 05:07 PM
Truthfully, not being racist or anything, it all has to do with statistics. Black men are predominantly the ones that get caught for crimes because they are trying to make money to support their families and they're doing it illegally. That and they can't afford good lawyers. I think they should ne put in programs to teach them work skills so they don't think they have to do illegal things to support their family. By the way, I've known alot of white people that are getting 8-10 years for stupid things like paraphanelia charges and getting married out of state while their on parole so they could marry their fiance who was going to Iraq. So they get put in for stupid crap everywhere. Also, statistically black men and latinos are not the minority in prison, white males are.

namswifey
05-05-2008, 08:22 PM
I saw for myself going to court hearings hearing other cases (same judge) and when my baby went up there the cop even f#@$%ed up his story and there was no "real" proof and they gave him 5 YEARS!!!! but the man before him same charges (white man) got 3 years probation!!!!!!! :angry:

TedEBare
05-05-2008, 08:39 PM
Also, statistically black men and latinos are not the minority in prison, white males are.


Excuse me if I'm wrong, wasn't that the point?

LovingSoul4u2
05-28-2008, 06:19 PM
I truly believe race plays a MAJOR role in sentencing! There are other factors that also play a role too, lawyer, judge but it still goes back to race.

ladyjgermany
05-28-2008, 06:53 PM
I believe race is the key factor when handing down a sentence. I have seen it over and over again. A white man and a black man can commit the same crime and 9 times out of 10 the black man is going to get the harshes sentence.:angry:

carlosgirl
06-04-2008, 07:24 PM
my bf is hispanic serving life for armed robbery and they put his race as white. they try to even the numbers by lying about race.

Huggette
06-22-2008, 01:33 AM
This observation is nothing new. Its been going on for years. Are you kidding me? Its been going on for hundreds of years.

Rene.E2008
06-23-2008, 10:16 PM
I really think that the better the lawyer the lower the sentence. But I really don't pay attention to the race issue. Because quite honestly, why complain? They aren't gonna do nothing about it and you're just wasting your time worrying about something that isn't that serious. He committed the crime, he's paying for it. It should be lesson learned, end of story.

Geauxin'KraZee
08-22-2011, 11:56 AM
No , but watch what happens when it's time for re- election of politicians promising to crack down on crime and impose tougher sentences !!!THAT'S when harsh sentences are handed down ! At least in my state ! What about some states with the "three strikes" law ? Think about it- that has nothing to do with race or money- but politics plays a big role in this !

hoppin
09-04-2011, 08:13 AM
You bet 'ya race and class is a factor in cases. There are many articles and books published on the subject using statistics. I'm in the south, I am white with biracial kids. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that many laws passed disproportionally land people of color in jail with harsher penlites. Getting tough on drug laws slam poor addicts who use crack, yet have less penalties for richer folks who can afford the good powder cocaine. Cocaine is cocaine! There are a host of other laws like that. There are built in prejudices in our laws and courtrooms.

Example : my 16 year old black son was caught drinking with the rest of the baseball team (all other white kids). There was absolutly no difference in my son's background (no criminal record, first time in trouble) than the other players. All the kid's parents showed up in court including me. My son was dressed just as nice. No one hired an attorney. Guess what: my son got two years probation and the rest of the kids got one year! 3 of them when up to see the judge back-to-back with him. My son was clean cut, polite. No reason for it but race. This happens all the time. If you are not caught up in it you don't see it and you can't believe it.

Vixen311
09-07-2011, 12:03 PM
the police don't go around sayin' hey check it out there's a (insert race) man or woman...let's arrest 'em.(although SOME PPL. do think that) i got slammed first case and it was the LOWEST level felony. and i'm a white woman... when ever i been in jail it's the poor ppl that end up doing the most time cause they don't have a good lawyer, a public defender gets paid by the state or county NO MATTER the outcome of the verdict. i'm just so very, tired of ppl using race to defend, define, or excuse every thing. this is my own opinion so if ppl. here don't like it then,well i still feel this way whether you approve of it or not.

Debylg
10-06-2011, 12:30 PM
I believe it exists, I believe that it depends on your judge, your financial ability to pay for a lawyer and your state. I have seen publicized cases where a celebrity is charged with the same as my husband (white male, middle class) - those celebrities got a slap on the wrist, a fine and community service. My husband got 20 serve 8. That after 22,000 in lawyers fees, 17,000 in bond money, voluntary counseling and evaluations (5000).....if you have enough money - you can get off just about ANYTHING!! We've all seen it on the news over the years.

MsStamp
10-07-2011, 11:03 AM
No I think its way more complex than JUST race, but it must play some kind of part in it. But really, its all about money. Do you have the money for a hot shot lawyer? Then you are going to do a lot better than someone with a court appointed one. Maybe ethnic minorities are poorer than white folk in the states (overall)? I'm not sure, I dont live there, but if that IS the case then chances are it just seems like more ethnic minorities being locked up.

Real Checker
10-07-2011, 12:22 PM
To many variables to come to such a general conclusion for me. I mean, I live in San Antonio, Texas so even though I am white I am a minority. In a lot of jurisdictions this is the case. Then you have the judges and juries that do the sentencing ... some are white, some are Hispanic, some are African-American, so how does THAT play on the length of a sentence being handed down?

My personal experience is thus, my prosecutor was African-American, my judge and my attorney were both Mexican-American. I am white. I got a 25 year sentence for burglary of a habitation with the intent to commit theft. When I arrived to prison I discovered that many convicts with similar crimes were doing nickles and dimes and some even less than that. Some of those convicts were white, like me, but many were of other races.

I have no doubt that SOMETIMES racism comes into play when it comes to sentencing, but to blame racism on what is perceived as a majority race is unfair and racist in of itself.

phallix
10-08-2011, 08:55 AM
i think people should all get same sentence to often i see minorities get off easier which i think is stupid. All should do the same time !!

sharhulk
10-11-2011, 11:21 AM
I think it has to do with income. If you don't have a lot of money to get a good attorney your screwed, also what county your getting sentenced can be racist.

Sheryl P.
10-12-2011, 07:15 AM
Would anyone care to look at the stats. on Hispanic inmates as a whole and in shu.They are very skewed in "favor" of locking them in shu.I see a huge civil rights case for some hungry lawyer!

zzSuezz
10-13-2011, 12:30 PM
In November of last year, my husband and I got into a shoving match. No physical abuse or markings on either of us. He ended up going to jail. The cops asked if I wanted a restraining order, I specifically told them NO more than once. They did it anyways. Well, in January he went to court. I was there with him. I saw 3 different men in there being accused of the same charges. The DA had stacks of pictures of what they had did to their women. There was absolutely no pictures, no evidence of anything against my husband. Only what the cops said in their reports. Those 3 other men were "minorities" my husband is caucasion. All of them walked out of there with 1 year or less probation. My husband had a public defender and his options were 2 years probation or take it to trial and face 2-10 years prison. We didn't have the money to hire a good attorney. So to avoid prison he took probation and had to plead guilty of something that didn't happen. In my opinion, it don't matter what race you are, it's about having the money for the right attorney to represent you.

Klewis
11-27-2011, 10:37 PM
All I know is based on my experience it definitely depend on what state you live in and who you are. Not what color but the level of influence you have on your town. My brother was tried in New Mexico for distribution he received 17 years federal. This is his first time in Prison and prior to this he went to jail 2 other times served no more then 6 months one time. My brother was a well known leader of his town and he employed many people. My cousin was murdered a church going single dad of two the person that killed him and took him away from his children also was tried in New Mexico and received 14 years. My X husband as been in and out of jail 10 times for Domestic Violence the most he has spent in jail is 18 months that he served at Larry Gist. He got out of jail provoked parole for the same thing and served 5 months. He was granted parole his first time around. He wasted time in jail and never spoke of change. My Fiance is serving a 10 year sentence for distribution and aggravated assault. He has been in 5 years. He has taken classes and made the Dean's list. He has found religion and he has spoke of change. He received a 2 year setoff. So my question is why is Domestic Violence so inncoent but not aggravated assault. I feel if a person will beat the crap out of someone they supposely love what do you think they would do to a complete stranger? I can't speak of race because all of these men are black.

benignneglect
08-26-2012, 10:25 PM
Today, I was just browsing some of the Department of Corrections website and I noticed something strange about some of the time being served. So I questioned a family member,who works for the justice system about my concern.For example, I have seen black men on the DOC website that are in for their 1st offense and have gotten the max number of years while the others,who have numberous offenses and who have worse crimes get lesser years than the men with the 1st offense!:angry: What's up with that?!? I just wanted to know has anyone noticed that too. Is it true that the justice system still gives minorities harsher sentences than caucasians??

I believe this to a degree, but feel it is based more on social status and income level. Even the white guy from "the hood" is going to get a harsher sentence than the white guy who comes from a more afluent background.
:(

Marine_Wife
08-27-2012, 12:53 AM
1st offense and have gotten the max number of years while the others,who have numberous offenses and who have worse crimes get lesser years than the men with the 1st offense!:angry: What's up with that?!? I just wanted to know has anyone noticed that too. Is it true that the justice system still gives minorities harsher sentences than caucasians??



You hit it right on the nail! My LO had NO OTHER OFFENSES! ANd what happened!? He didn't get max but damn they gave him more years than someone who did something worse! It's ridiculous! As for minorities getting harsher sentences, I think in some cases but not all. It just depends on the judge.

Marine_Wife
08-27-2012, 12:56 AM
In November of last year, my husband and I got into a shoving match. No physical abuse or markings on either of us. He ended up going to jail. The cops asked if I wanted a restraining order, I specifically told them NO more than once. They did it anyways. Well, in January he went to court. I was there with him. I saw 3 different men in there being accused of the same charges. The DA had stacks of pictures of what they had did to their women. There was absolutely no pictures, no evidence of anything against my husband. Only what the cops said in their reports. Those 3 other men were "minorities" my husband is caucasion. All of them walked out of there with 1 year or less probation. My husband had a public defender and his options were 2 years probation or take it to trial and face 2-10 years prison. We didn't have the money to hire a good attorney. So to avoid prison he took probation and had to plead guilty of something that didn't happen. In my opinion, it don't matter what race you are, it's about having the money for the right attorney to represent you.

Oh goodness that isn't right! Sorry that happened to you two!

JPrasil
09-01-2012, 07:49 PM
I think a lot of factors goes into it. There is a difference if you have a Court Appointed Attorney versus a Retained Attorney. The difference in income, education level, criminal history, ethnicity/race and knowledge of your rights and the law.

My husband has prior criminal record and has been in prison three times before. The first time he was offered a Plea, according to his Attorney, was ten years and she reduced it to five years and finally thee years which he Plead out too. I was involved with the case and my knowledge of Texas Law plus I did a lot of research and was alright with what he accepted considering his background and we're in Texas.

My mother on the other hand believes ethnicity and income has to do a lot with the outcome of the case based on her clients, their cases and her experience inside the court room. She believes low-income minorities are given harsher and longer sentences versus someone who is not a minority and not low-income.

To each their own. In the end the Criminal Justice system is less than fair on a number of levels.

billysbutton
09-01-2012, 08:01 PM
My fiance was white an received the death penalty so in my book they don't play favorites...

NiaBaby88
09-01-2012, 11:43 PM
My fiance was white an received the death penalty so in my book they don't play favorites...

I definately see your point of view as well. In my political science class we discussed this, blacks & latino men get harsher sentencing, however the majority of inmates that are on DR are in fact white males. Which led me to feel that you just never know with the "justice" system

xxdreeaxx
09-02-2012, 09:33 AM
I'm not sure what to say. On one hand, we didn't hire a lawyer, and they gave my baby a PD. He was awesome. I really do mean that. He did everything he could for us, and gave us the sentence that we were looking for. I'm kind of happy I didn't hire a lawyer, because I had to pay $10,000 in restitution for my baby, to get his sentence lowered by a year. He originally got 2 years for organized fraud, and they brought it down to 12 months and one day after the payment.

In regards to minorities getting more time, it's pretty true from what I have seen. Some guys that are in with my baby, both had no records before, first time in DOC, one is black, one white. The black guy received 4 years for burglary, and the other one got 30 months. But then again, it could be due to the judge or attorney on the case.

michaelpaulswif
09-02-2012, 10:20 AM
My dude is white as the driven snow and got 10 years 10 months for meth. Th thing is most people around here only get about 5!

WBGStrap
09-02-2012, 07:34 PM
i wonder the % of snitches by race, that can affect sentencing.
its impossible to try and compare sentences, even for the similar crimes, bc all situations are different.
Also many times minorities will do something stupid . like rob a bodega of $40 (gets 20 years), bc he used a gun. as compared to a white guy embezzling a million using computers might get 5 yrs.
i feel in most cases the sentences are too harsh, white/ black/ purple..the most important is GREEn $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

HisNDNgirl
10-23-2012, 06:59 AM
There is stats on this. In Canada the stats show Native people get longer harsher sentences (Canada has criminal code to help undo this, that's the report my man waited all month on), in the US Blacks statistically have harsher sentences. In both countries those respective groups are also statistically over represented in the jails and prisons. So you can all share your tidbits and ideas but it's real, it's statisticly proven and it's life. If your the wrong minority in the wrong town, county, province/state or country your up shit creek and you already know it by the time your old enough to be in trouble.

An just to add my tidbit my Man's last time in (still waitin on sentencing for this time) he got 9 months for 2 breeches (30 days per breech is the norm....2 months vs 9, yeah that's reality).

SherrieA
07-12-2013, 06:54 PM
Can't say anything about your situations, but in my LO case there were things happening behind closed doors. LO is not a minority. Had a count appointed atormey, 2nd offence. Prosocutor wanted her to give someone up, they kept putting court off, working on her. The Dectective in the case even went to bat for her. The pros was so po'd at her for not ratting on the bigfish he wouldn't give her a break. She wouldn't rat because she was afraid for her life. They got her for manuf, conspiracy, and a couple more charges. She ended up getting 40 years with 20 supp. This was drugs not murder! Atfer her trial, if you want to call it that since she plead. Her attorney told her she would get less time, same area a woman went on trial for murder, got her charges reduced. She ended up getting 10 years. I would bet that she is already out. She had an attorney not appointed by the state. I agree, it's all about the green. It's what's going on behind the scene that counts. My LO is a white female. Yes they need to get their crap together. That's what happens, not enough watch dog on our government officials. County, state and federal. Off my soap box now, good luck to everyone here.