Drug war?? Why are people so fooled to think that there is a "drug war" The government doesn't want to win the drug war, it's a business, it's all about money. Money for them that is.

Amen. you are preaching to the choir.

I so agree i have a brother in Michigan who just got 9-40 in the walls of their prison it is all about money he catered to the rich,famous and political now he is serving a long sentence do they really believe they are going to stop this drug war HellNo.......they are making way to much money and here the poor are trying to collect a little and we pay for it at the end .................

I totally agree with all of you!

I agree- if it were a "War" against drugs - there would have been a solution by now - and there COULD have been, but its obvious its not what our government wants. Putting a dealer behind bars doesnt take a dealer off the street - it puts a new one out there- no matter how many dealers get locked up - makes no difference - people still do drugs-people still sell them. Our government NEEDS drugs to be illegal - with drug offenders occupying over 65% of federal prisons - what would they do without them?

THE ONLY REASON DRUGS ARENT LEGAL IS THE GOVERMENT CANT TAX THEM ANY ONE HAS ACCESS TO MOST DRUGS I KNOW ALOT OF PEOPLE WHO JUST DONE IT TO FEED THEIR KIDS AND TAKE CARE OF THEIR FAMILIES WHY IS THAT SO BAD YOU HAVE TO DO WHAT YOU GOTTA DO SOME TIMES I MISS ALL THE SOLDIERS IN JAIL AND GOT MUCH LOVE AND RESPECT FOR THEM
THE ONLY WAY THE GOVERMENT CAN MAKE MONEY OFF DRUGS IS BUSTING PEOPLE
TODAYS SOCIETY IS GREEDY ITS ALL ABOUT THAT GREEN

i agree wit you all. not only is the money good for the seller, but it is a lifestyle as well. one that they'd rather risk than stop gettin money for. i was gonna be a c.o.. my father told me that i had to change the way that i feel about drug dealers. but i told him that i can't cause i dont see anythin wrong wit it or them. you gotta do wat you gotta do an when that's wat some have been doin since 12 or 13 who's to tell them that its the wrong way to make a livin. not me that's for sure.

Well I agree, it is a business but a war too otherwise our loved ones wouldnt be behind bars, especially the ones that violated parole by using drugs and ended up back in prison, that doesnt make sense to me at all.

I totally disagree. Federal deficit has spun out of control. Just look here. http://www.drugsense.org/wodclock.htm
Look at all that money being spent. That is NOT profit people. That is how much is COSTS. And the ones paying or it our us dear old taxpayers.
Every raid, arrest, etc. is just taxpayers dollars funding it.
That's why people need to start voting for candidates who want to end the drug war.
If you don't vote, your taxdollars will continue to fund unwarranted raids, arrests, etc.
Nobody wants the drug war. Nobody. Not conservatives, not liberals, not anyone in between or outside.
The only reason it got this bad was because no one was paying attention to it earlier, until now.
THe key is to educate others on this and start campaigning and voting the right people in, join groups to lobby changing legislation, the more people we have to get actively involved in making the changes the quicker we can end this dam thing.
The was has gone on for too long nd too far.
We need everyone to pull together, liberals, conservatives, users, abusers, traffickers, legislators, businesses, families, etc. we need everyone to pull together and push to legalize and regulate and get it down to point where compassion and justice are in order.

I am not for the legalization of drugs. I don't have the answers but legalization is the wrong way to go in my opinion.
My boyfriend is a heroin addict. Our goal here is to get him OFF the drug, not give him a way to have it legally. I know not everyone who uses drugs wants to be off them. If that's the way they want to live, that is their choice.
I don't agree with locking up all drug offenders. Meaning, I don't agree with locking up people because they violated parole by using. I am not for locking up people who are caught with small amounts of drugs that they are not selling. I may get shot here, but I do feel that drug dealers should go to prison. I can't stand these people who are out there pushing drugs to support themselves. There are other ways to live.
People who use drugs to the point where they are going to die have problems that they need help with. If someone is using to the point of addiction, which if one is using heroin or crack or whatever, I would think the majority of them are addicted, giving them these drugs legally isn't doing anything but hurting them.
This is all my opinion and it comes from watching my boyfriend slowly kill himself with heroin. If he could get heroin legally, I can't even imagine what that would be like. And, I really don't want to.

Look, if you prefer your boyfriend to sit in jail, because you're too scared to see it legalized, that's fine with me, I don't care what you want, it's your life.

But meanwhile the majority of people are willing to take that risk because they see the positives (availability for treatment, reduce violence, improve quality, quantity, controls, pricing regulations, etc) significantly outweighs the risks (becoming legal, thus supposedly more available).

You can't have benefits and not take risk in life. Life doesn't work that way. You have to swallow your pride and take the risk if you're going to ever get the gold.

Most people willing to take that puny risk to reap the numerous rewards, the choice providing greater options if you ask me. The fear doesn't stop them. It's the gold they are after. And gold is not found in prison. It's outside the walls. (for those who have faith and thus are not afraid) You need faith, not prison.

Well the risks of some drugs is DEATH, often a really bad death, death as in zip, gone, forever, over, never no more, of a real live person that has feelings, and is sick with a disease, to me that is a risk that I didnt want for myself when I was recovering or when I was addicted, and I wouldnt want it for my loved one who is sitting in a prison in Michigan,but he is alive thank God and probably wouldnt be if he continued on like he was. I know a lot about being addicted to Heroin, Meth, and Crack, the death rates are unbelievable, I know I came way too close way too many times, and I dont think any civilized country would ever legalize the hardcore drugs and Im glad I live in one of those countrys. There is no gold in letting your loved one have easy access to Heroin or Crack or whatever, these drugs cause damage to a persons body and brain, there is no sane reason that I can think of to legalize these drugs, they are a death sentence. Making the demand for these drugs less is what the answer is. I agree prison is not the answer, most of us do because we want our addicts to be healed not locked up, but do you really think that by legalizing the hard core drugs that society would be better off, perhaps you need to see an addict almost dead, one that you love. To see the damage that cant be repaired to not only them physically but their very soul. There is no gold in that, only that brown mushy stuff that we flush down the toilet, that is not the life that most addicts want either.

Most addicts really hate the drug they are addicted too, of course when they are craving it and the drug addiction is controlling them, sure they would want it legal but most of the time they wish like hell they can escape the drugs poison claws. I know, from personal experience and I still crave after all these years and I hate the drugs with all that I have in my heart, body and soul.

To demean someone caring for an addict with a healthy attitude is probably not the wisest approach to all of this. Just my opinion but I am looking forward to see if anyone will post anything that agrees with you.

A loved one of an addict goes threw so much heartache, you can't put it into words. Most of what you are saying Margaret really doesnt make much sense to me. Gold, what gold, no sane person thinks there is gold in any sense of the word when you are referring to an addicts life. Faith, most of us that love an addict have faith and know very well what faith is or we wouldnt even be here at PTO, its about all we have left, that and love. An addict recovering is no walk in the park either, its true torture, and painful and takes an enormous amount of inner strength from the addict and their loved ones. We all have faith here Margaret, faith that something good can come out of all the pain we and our addicts have suffered, otherwise there would be no point in carrying on.

!!!!! Jeni, you are a strong woman and I admire your strength greatly at all times. I wish you both the best in the future and hope all turns out well, remember you are in my prayers.

Okay, so I made the mistake of using the word "gold", I should have said "benefits". Excuse me for that.

However, you are saying there are no drugs in prison?
And you are saying there is no threat of DEATH IN PRISON?

Look, I'm not interested in arguing. All I know was that there were quite a few people here who said prison was not the answer. So I was just trying to help, offer a solution.

However, you obviously are not interested. You prefer to stay in prison instead. Fine. Stay there then.

Next time someone tries to help and you turn your back, don't complain if you're stuck behind bars. It's your own call.

Don't lets argue guys :) Personally I'm not so sure legalization would increase the demand, esp.if the resources thereby freed up went to education and treatment. If anything it might help remove the so called "glamor" of the druggie life, which we all know is BS anyway.
hiya Margaret! long time no type!

Hello haswtch, nice to see you :)

Basically it's pretty simple. It's either stay in prison if illegal, or get out of prison (and access to help if that's your case) if legal.

You either want prison or not. It's that simple. It's your call.

If having laws against drug use did anything at all to stop it, then the laws might make sense. But, the simple truth is, laws don't stop drug use in the least, they just make selling them more profitable for the dealers & the addicts more desperate, forcing them to turn to crime to support their addiction.

We need to come up with a way to take the distribution of drugs out of the hands of criminals — clinics of some kind. I know it sounds ugly, but what we're doing now is not working at all; greedy dealers are out there creating new addicts as fast as they can. Take the profit away & they won't be working so hard to get our kids hooked.

Positive thoughts to all…

Adrienne

Witchlin- Thank you for your amazing post. The pain, the heartache, the fear of death- unless you are an addict or love an addict, you can't even imagine the horrors. Margaret, I love my boyfriend. I hate the fact that he is in prison. But I would much rather him be in prison then dead. You can think what you want about that, I don't care. I know more about his disease then you ever will-
"Basically it's pretty simple. It's either stay in prison if illegal, or get out of prison (and access to help if that's your case) if legal."
It's not that simple. YOU DO DRUGS LIKE HEROIN-YOU DIE.
What is it that people don't get about that? What is it that people don't get about what heroin and other drugs do to your body and mind? Have you seen my boyfriend drugged out of his mind? Have you watched him od? Do I want this legal? No way, not ever. I would rather my boyfriend be in prison then beable to use heroin legally whenever he wanted. That in itself is a death sentence for him. Heroin is not a "social" drug. When people use hard core drugs, THEY CAN'T STOP.
"Look, if you prefer your boyfriend to sit in jail, because you're too scared to see it legalized, that's fine with me, I don't care what you want, it's your life." I thank you for giving me your opinion OF me. However, until you know what I prefer, I would imagine your best course of action would be to NOT say anything about me.
I care about addicts. I don't care about improved quality, quantity, controls, pricing regulations-whatever. I care about the fact that when my boyfriend gets out of prison next month, that he is able to stay away from heroin, and therefore stay alive.
No, I don't think he should be in prison. In fact, I hate that he is there. I definitely don't think prison is the answer.
However, legalizing the one thing that has almost killed him on numerous occasions is just insane.

WOW...since when did ANYONE say that DRUGS were GOOD for you??? ummmmm

heroine: Show me one person who is addicted to heroine who has a family, who has a good job, who has a HAPPY life...

crack-cocaine: Show me the same...

Marijuana: Okay, I'll admit there are some 'medical' benefits that have been proven by the research...

BUT if the day were ever to come and drugs were legalized (and they NEVER will be, because we have some pretty educated and smart people that we vote and elect into office)

Would you be willing to watch your friends, your family, your loved ones start on the road to addiction because these drugs were now legal??

OMG...and we thought society was bad off now. The prison populations would double with the crime that would ensue from this.

No, the Research shows that the 'drug war' is not working. More services and help to get people off these drugs and become a contributing member to society will be the ONLY answer that will reduce the drug offender population.

EDUCATION is the key...and this is only my opinion!


and Jeni, you also have my full admiration! Stay strong Girl!

Ditto from me Jeni!!!

Originally posted by PammieK
[B]No, the Research shows that the 'drug war' is not working. More services and help to get people off these drugs and become a contributing member to society will be the ONLY answer that will reduce the drug offender population.
And where are you going to get the money for that? Are you going to personally pay for it yourself?

Believe, you don't HAVE to "argue" with me about keeping drug addicts locked up in prison. I was the one who VOTED for them to get locked up in the first place! I think they SHOULD be there! I have always thought that! I still do! That's where they BELONG.

I WANT them there. I do NOT want these people to come out to society and destroy it, us, and our economy.

I want these people to STAY LOCKED UP for as long as they are no benefit to society.

I was referring to the ones wwho have POTENTIAL to become responsible, good-standing citizens. NOT THOSE people you guys are talking about. The GOOD people. Not the self-pity, helpless, apathetic ones. The RESPONSIBLE ones. The GOOD ones. The ones who can get back on their feet again.

We owe THOSE people a chance. NOT the ones you speak of.

Easy there Margaret...how would you judge which ones are which?

By asking them.

"Who here in this prison is ready to be responsible or not?"

No one can nor should force them to answer either way. It should be honest and their choice only. Not anyone else's.

Oh Margaret, I am sort of lost for words, but really I have a couple things that I would like to say at the risk of getting in to trouble with the admins.
Since Ive been here at PTO, I feel like Im part of a family. I've been welcomed, and helped at every turn and I am forever grateful for that and the friends Ive made here dont judge me for who I love, or for what Ive done in the past, they have become true friends.
Margaret, I think it would be great if you could feel comfortable here too, unfortunately you seem a little angry with most people you have debates with. Im quite willing to have a fair debate with you regarding drug issues, though Im not willing to see you aim below the belt to people here with out saying something to you. I would also not like someone aiming below the belt to you either. Margaret there are a lot of people here who have suffered great heart ache, and loss and this is a community that has come together to give each other strength, support and exchange information and it was all built on the backbone of a wonderful idea from a wonderful person who created PTO. I would really like it if you could find a way to consider others feelings when posting though. That of course is my hope and only my opinion.

I know you have spoken briefly about some of your inner feelings on another forum and I feel for you Margaret, but it doesnt mean you should be hurting others. I think you are intelligent and probably a really nice person that could share information here and make some good friends. I think it would be a great start at feeling comfortable here and even more important, in the xmas spirit it would be nice if you were welcomed here. It would be so nice if we could all start again here with less hostility and some honest consideration for others. I dont consider personal shots a part of a constructive and informative conversation.

I realize from some of your posts on another thread what your views are about criminals, drug addicts belonging in prison and a bit of your background and feelings. I respect that as being your feelings and your opinion. If you are still writing to your penpal, maybe someday down the road you will see a different side to it all, time will tell. But Im hoping that you will consider that they are human too, just as much as you and I are, and just as much as the people here that love them. There are an awful lot of people here at PTO that feel love in their hearts for a prisoner and some of those prisoners are very innocent, some are locked up because of a disease, some are violent, some made one mistake, some are down right bad boys, but you know, none of us can judge them if you dont know them personally or have been touched or affected in some way by them.
Now Im thinking by your last post that you may not be aware of how hard it might be for an addict to think straight, especially in the early days, but regardless, they are someones child, perhaps someones spouse but probably someones loved one, and if not then their disease becomes even sadder if they are all alone. Please find it in your heart to have some feelings for a person inflicted with addiction, and for their loved ones or please leave them alone. Especially this time of year when an awful lot of us are going to be missing them for xmas.
So the answer to your question, I can answer that, my loved one is in prison, he is an addict, Im an addict that has so far recovered for 16 years now I think, and Ive been incarcerated, I also help a lot of addicts, and have quite a few in my life. Speaking on behalf of them if I may,,they will all say they are ready, every single one of them. Im certain of that unless there is something else wrong with them and they need other medical help.
So lets just start again here and I would like to welcome you to PTO and hope that you can make a lot of good friends here.
Happy Holidays

Witchlinblue, yes, you're right. I probably was too harsh and too hard. I would go back and delete them all for you, but it doesn't allow me that option after 30 minutes.
If you can do it from your end, feel free to delete. I dont want to disturb anyone or ruin anyone's holidays.
I did apologize to everyone on another thread. But I'll do it again here too. Sorry about that. Didn't mean to upset anyone or make anyone feel bad personally on purpose, that wasn't my intention, I just come off too strong sometimes and don't realize it. Maybe it's my personality and just the way I am. Again, don't take it personal. It's not you. It's me, my personality, that is, the way I am, nothing meant to be personal, that's all.

Yes, we are still writing each other. Feels different though. I care about him a lot and he does me too. As friends. I don't know. Can't point it out, but something just feels different for some reason. A little apprehension here. Wish I knew what it was.

Thank you for welcoming me here. That was nice of you. Thank you.

Well Margaret, there is nothing wrong with making a friend and friends dont grow on trees and if you have made one with him then dont worry about analysising it, just be a friend. Dont worry about editing or anything, lets just carry on and just keep in mind why most people are here, we care about someone in the system. Well since you have a friend in the prison system then this is the right place to be (PTO) to learn anything you need to know or to get information or just support or advice. People are very nice here and are a wealth of information. Welcome and hope you make lots of friends, just remember, you have 30 min to edit and sometimes I find it better to not send yet and re-read it a few minutes later before I send it. Ive sometimes sent something with so many mistakes that Im not sure if it made sense, so after a while you will learn these things.
Something Ive really learned an awful lot since being at PTO is that friends come in all sorts of shapes and forms and from all sorts of different walks of life, but when you truly get to see how they tick and find out they arent what you see on the outside, then you know you might have made a friend, no matter what they have done, everyone needs a friend or two or three.
So back to the topic of the drug war really being a business, well I really think its both, their are victims on all sides, prisoners of this war, but on the other hand their are also fat pocket books from here to deepest darkest Peru and beyond in all directions, dealers, government, and others. The last time I was in Detroit, we were at a gas station/store in a line up, there were a number of people ahead of us. I was listening and every single person ahead of us asked for the 'Kit', the guy behind the bulletproof glass takes the money and reaches down and grabs a brown paper bag and shoves it threw the slot. Every single person asked for this and I realized, ok here we got another person making money off of addicts. The bag contains a little glass tube with a rose in it, some chore boy or whatever its called in american (steel wool esentially), and a lighter with adjustable flame. Its a kit for crackheads. Its not legal to sell but the market is so big there and everywhere near it that its a quick buck. He is probably making a better profit then the dealers standing outside the store. I saw this all the time during my stay there as well as many more things that are all people just trying to make a buck anyway they can, but something has to change there too. Its on so many levels and in cities its on most if not all levels. Its not an inner city problem, its everywhere. Its like an ozing infection that just spreads everywhere and kills so many people. Its not just the drugs themselves that are profitable, there are many other ways to make a buck on an addict.

Happy Holidays,

Wow- this thread has crertainly seen its ups and downs hasn't it?
I only want to say a couple things.
Margaret, I understand what are are saying, I REALLY DO, it's just that I don't happen to agree with you. Doesn't mean anything more then that. I just don't agree. However, I think that you are a smart person, and you obviously have some serious feelings on this subject, as we all do.
I guess we all need to agree to disagree cuz sometimes you aren't going to change someones mind no matter what! :)
This really is a good topic, and I do like hearing people's views on the subject.
Thanks all for keeping this thread on track. Emotions were running high, and it's good to see us realize that even though we may disagree, we can do it in a civilized manner. :)

margaret, were you channeling Mom there for a minute or 2 by any chance? a couple posts back?

All this talk about the War on Drugs, and its costs, makes me wonder what the new War on Terror will turn into in twenty years... I guess the government found another way to seize assets and steal its citizen's money.

More than you know... I lived in the Fla. Keys back in the day. Castro has been planning the downfall of the U.S.A. for over 20 years. He- allowed ships carrying Cocain from South America to refuel in Cuban waters then come on to the Keys- then it would go up I-95 to New York & wherever. Smart man huh? Its worked. Look at us now. Back then all the local Key Lago Sherrifs Deptuties had beautiful ciggarette boats, cars, some had planes, great homes,all their kids had new bikes. I found so many bale wrappers in the mangroves (from South America)back then - oh it was unreal-- they would pitch them if they saw the coast guard.You would also find PVC tubes that they would seal the coke in. I will never forgive Carter for the accepting Castros unwanteds-- there was a VERY good reason he sent those particular people over to us in Cuban boats. Im not talking about ones who escaped. All about destroying us in business & politics- Castro is right up there with Hitler in my book- its just not as well known.

If you want to know why things happen in this country, all you have to do is follow the money. MONEY is the driving force behind dope. Too much money made from its sale and too much money spent and made to fight it. Public safety, crime and health are NOT the reasons we have this WAR on drugs...it's because the IRS cannot get there grubby, blood soaked hands on it! PROHIBITION 2008!!! By the way, I am not pro-drug, I am just against the liars in the Justice Department and DEA.;)

There is a straight line from the international Forbes 500 Pharmacutical companies and the street dealers.

Multi-billion dollar corporations who manufacture drugs have been manipulating research results and scientific data to support their uncontrolled drug dealing enterprises. They're not only legally sanctioned by our government, but manipulate our population through their contracts with the University system, and are rewarded by our government in the form of grants for research and development and lucrative contracts....Oxycontin. Nicotine. Need I say more?

Oxy.

"non addictive" pain medication that turns users into heroin and methadone addicts. The users get 3-5, dealers 15-25, and manufacturers...get wealth, fame, and immunity. None of those pharm. manufacturers who created and marketed oxycontin &* oxycodone while lying and cheating and manipulating research results got a dime of time. But look at the tens of thousands of people who are behind bars right now because they were prescribed oxy by their doctors.

Our government wants us to become street junkies, because it funds a multi-trillion dollar enterprise.

Yes, FOLLOW THE MONEY. The war on drugs is a myth, an illusion. The real war is economic and assaults the very freedoms we cherish. And the mass media both supports and encourages this (lots of newspapers and magazines in prisons and jails maybe)...do you realize that every time you read about a horrific crime, there's usually a verbal/written attempt to connect the crime to drug use/marijuana smoking? ...Those articles NEVER say, "he drank milk before committing the crime?" There is no conclusive evidence linking crimes to drug use, other than MV homicides, and in cases other than those in which alcohol was involved, even that's debatable.

Research drug use and addiction in The Netherlands, and ask yourself "why" that country has one of the lowest crime & violent crime rates on the face of the earth, why they have the highest student test scores in the world arena, why they have one of the lowest infant-mortality rates on earth, and why they don't have problems with gangs....

yet the Netherlands does not criminalize drug addiction...

These are all the arguments the US uses to support its GREAT LIE, which the war on drugs really is. Then ask yourself "why" our government used military planes and equipment to import billions of dollars worth of cocaine from Columbia and dumped it in the ghettos and barrios throughout the west coast (back in the 1980s)....

The fact of the matter is that the Rush Limbaughs of the country don't do time for their drug addictions...it's just for the ones who couldn't afford to buy the oxys for their habit and ended up on the street corner.

Prisons in this country are no doubt for-profit organizations. The criminal justice systems feeds these businesses with its imaginary drug war.

A short quote with some interesting numbers... "according to a 2006 Bureau of Justice Statistics report, 12.7 percent of state inmates and 12.4 percent of federal inmates incarcerated for drug violations are incarcerated for marijuana offenses. In human terms, this means that there are now about 33,655 state inmates and 10,785 federal inmates behind bars for violating marijuana laws. (The report failed to include estimates on the percentage of inmates incarcerated in county jails for pot-related offenses.)"

The back end costs of those arrests are about 1 billion dollars with some estimates placing the front end costs combined with the back end costs at around 7 billion dollars.

I'm new at this but.......................all I can say is go to LEAP on your pc and do some reading, I did, It blew my mind , as I am a recovering drug addict, I have to agree with a lot of what they say.. These views come from the high up to do officals and judges etc. take the time and go there a read, it might change your mind about a few things.... Linda

AMEN!

The Government Exists for the Sole Purpose of Serving the People, not Ruling the People. Too many are inprisoned for drug charges, for petty marijuana charges. 75 percent in prison now are in for drug related charges.

Our right to justice is not something that the judiciary should play with. Our justice system is not a tool of self serving lawyers to use to allow lawyers to take advantage of the misfortunate and victimize them. Our courts are to serve the people and not as a profit center to protect the incomes of lawyers. We the people hereby give notice to the judiciary that you are acting in contempt of the people and that you will refrain from continuing to do so or face the consequences.

It is time for legalization and really time for the public to speak up.

AMEN!

Our right to justice is not something that the judiciary should play with. Our justice system is not a tool of self serving lawyers to use to allow lawyers to take advantage of the misfortunate and victimize them. Our courts are to serve the people and not as a profit center to protect the incomes of lawyers. We the people hereby give notice to the judiciary that you are acting in contempt of the people and that you will refrain from continuing to do so or face the consequences.

It is time for legalization and really time for the public to speak up.

Unfortunately, it is not the "Judiciary" who creates the laws, it is "OUR" legislatures in States, and our Senators and Representatives in OUR congress. ...The problem is that the "public" is uninformed and uneducated. People in this country cast their votes based on "personalities" and not the issues they should be concerned about. Or, they focus on the "wrong issues"...voting because of stances on things like abortion or religious affiliation, rather than on important issues like the fact that our infrastructure is crumbling to dust right before our eyes ("katrina" is a prime example...bridges are falling, roads are in disrepair, schools are failing, kids are going hungry, people are working two and three jobs to provide for their families and still not making ends meet, our natinal debt is robbing our future from our grandchildren, we're immersed in global warfare, and can't pay our heating bills or put gasoline in our cars. Our healthcare system is run by insurance companies who not only make wellness and health unaffordable for the majority, but also seem to feel qualified to make medical diagnoses in spite of not having gone to medical school, and our elders are eating catfood and going to bed hungry and cold...because they can't afford to live on the social "security" they spent a lifetime paying for.)

...it's about politics. If you're a woman politician and lose the primary, just cry in public and you'll win the next one. ...Ed Muskie cried on television during his campaign and it cost him the party vote, because he's a man. Hillary Clinton cried on national television, and garnered success in the following primary vote...because she's a woman.

"Joe Q Public" has no idea "WHAT" he's voting for, only knows "who" he's voting for. Unfortunately, no one really knows how their elected officials will vote when it comes to creating the laws we're ruled by, because politicans are lobbied and paid off by the biggest payoff. The only way that The American People will become a self-ruling and autonomous nation is if "WE" abolish lobbiests, corporate campaign contributions, and return to the "popular vote" rather than using an electoral college. ..."Dangling Chads" are a case in point.

THE ONLY WAY THAT WE WILL MAKE A DIFFERENCE IS IF AND WHEN "WE" DECIDE TO CHANGE THINGS.

"...And Justice For All"
Northstar