Hey all!! Well... I am posting this just out of curiosity and for the sake of discussion as well as for feedback, because I don't really remember it being discussed up to this point.
The topic came up in MY experience this way... JD is going through some things, and we are trying to get DOC to look at his consequences for tickets he received when he was on a mental health watch in the health care unit and NOT in his right mind... (they were mainly for non-compliance with orders at a time when he was non-responsive...) Well, he had written me about another guy who was talking to him about his situation with fighting these tickets AND a possible appeal for his original case. Well, this guy ended up winning his own grievance and is no longer in the segregation unit, so JD can no longer communicate with him, so he asked me to write the guy. I did and the guy wrote back.... is all about business, no formalities, is just requesting I send him copies of certain cases... and here is the kicker that caught me for a second... he is also asking for $100. Now, because I believe he is accurate that due to the Prisoner Litigation Reform Act, we can't file suit against DOC or have a court review his discipline until the grievance procedures of DOC has been exhausted.... and after much discussion with JD's family, we have decided to send him $50 now as a "deposit" and tell him we do agree to pay the other $100 when we see that he is doing what he says he will.
What do you all think of jailhouse lawyers?? Am I being a sucker?? I know JD trusts him, and while JD is usually a pretty good judge of character, this has gotten his hopes up, so who knows if his vision is clear... But I also kind of think... if this gives JD hope, the money may be well spent?! Have others had experience with having a jailhouse lawyer help their loved one?? With any success?? Just curious.... Would like to hear feedback on my decision too... I won't be hurt if you tell me I am a sucker.... I already KNOW I am in many ways... :)

JDswifey,

Here's my experience with jailhouse lawyers. They run the gambit from guys who just go through the motions (file paperwork), but rarely get it right. Some are actually quite good when it comes to fighting the institution, or the DOC.
They have been in for along time & know what it takes, & how to say it to get a good result. They don't always win but they do put up a good fight. They usually do a better job than the person they are doing it for can do for themselves. Now for doing appeals, or court cases are another thing.

Jailhouse lawyers get hassled a lot by guards (in fact I just read a lawsuit a jailhouse lawyer brought against his prison & guards for harassment, he lost cause the court said he had no constitutional right to be a jailhouse lawyer, & the harassment was within the institutional rules), & they do spend a lot of time on cases. Fighting an institution you do have to fill out the right paper work, fill it out the right way, & go through the proper procedures. Some people are good at it others aren't. For those who aren't these guys help them out a lot, & yes they charge for their work.

They have more patience than I do. I let it slip once that I went pro-per (represented myself) on a case once, & I got all kinds of people asking me to help them with their cases. I refused, but told one friend I would look at his paperwork before he sent it in, to double check what he had done. It turned into a real hassle. So after that I kept my mouth shut.
I could go on & on about this.

The thing is can this guy do a better job than JD can do for himself. If yes, then it is probably worth the money. If JD trust him then that's really all you have to go on.

These are only my thoughts (ramblings), I'm sure others will give you more insight.------Ken

JDs....

I agree w/what Ken is saying. JD has really been the 1 to talk to this guy & as you said he is a good judge of character so it might be worth a try. You are doing the right thing by only giving a portion of the money until you see some results. If YOU see that the results are good & JD seems to be satisfied then that will be a BIG PLUS!!


EJ is doing something similar...his cellmate knows a whole lot about the law. He has even been transferred to the prison they are in because he has helped guys come home early because their sentences were OUTRAGEOUS!! Of course DOC didn't like that his cellmate was helping these guys so they transferred him!! The big difference is that this guy is helping EJ for free. The reason for that is he is telling EJ what to do & how to fill out the paperwork in order to do the best job possible in his Police Brutality lawsuit. I am a little scared for EJ, but in he telling me how his cellmate is doing things & he being so through I can feel this guy is really helping him.

Keep us posted on how things are going! I wish you & JD the best in him getting the needed help on those unfair tickets girl!!

I also concur with Ken. Some of these guys get very good at filing grievances and such. And they do so in spite of the grief the guards give them.

On a serious, but lighter note, in Kingston Pen, 2 guys (Ravin Gill and Bradley Waugh)just won a SUPREME COURT decision in their favour last year, based on a defence of "Freedom of speech and Freedom of the press".

They had been posting "wanted posters" around the prison about 6 "armed and dangerous" guards in particular who were beating inmates etc. Indeed these guards had killed an inmate during a "cell extraction". The inmates got criminally charged with "defamation of character, slander" kind of charges.

They fought with every grievance and appeal process they could find. And they got the attention of the Civil Liberties Union and such. They won their case. Now they're being asked to help out with all kinds of greivances.

So, you never know.

As for sending the money, what price do we put on hope...

Menolly

Thenk you for your thoughts and insights Ken, Diona and Menolly.... keep your fingers crossed for positive results!!

I have no experience with jailhouse lawyers, but Darrell told me I should not send any information about his case to a jailhouse lawyer, because there are certain guys who claim to help other inmates with their legal work, while all they do is look for some things that might help themselves to get out of prison...but that is for guys neither you nor the inmate ever met.

SHAWNA
WE TALKED ABOUT THIS AND I THINK YOU MADE THE RIGHT CHOICE. 1/2 NOW AND 1/2 LATER. THEY CAN BE HELPFUL AND REALLY KNOW THE INSIDE SO JUST TRY TO STAY ON TOP OF IT AND REMEMBER THAT MIRICLES HAPPEN ALL THE TIME.

Well... I managed to find my way to and around a law library and sent the requested cases and a $50 deposit off to this guy... and I got to see JD today and told him about it and it was so obvious that he was 1. impressed by how quick I was in getting the cases together and "getting the ball rolling" and 2. quite full of hope... he even said again that even if he sits in seg the full two and half years while filing grievances, each day will be easier to deal with just knowing he is continuing to speak up.... that he isn't just laying down and taking it.... so hearing that and seeing hope in his eyes was worth far more than $50.... I have a good gut feeling after sending the stuff off and my gut usually doesn't steer me wrong... so I have renewed hope as well....

KEEP US POSTED LOVA GIRL....

jdswifey,

That is such good news. I know exactly how he feels. Win, or lose at least your fighting.

When it's all said and done, at least you know you've done everything possible to bring him home. There will never be any doubt you are fighting and fighting hard!

Ms. jdswifey02:
Jailhose lawyers are handy in numerous ways, but mainly for gathering all needed materials for a seg. inmate. They know what that person needs. Draw back: If he/she transfers, your money is ate by him in another prison. Also, I knew a prisoner once that trusted a jailhouse lawyer with his pending case of murder. The lawyer gathered all the needed materials for the DA's case. When all things were collected such as how he did the case, where the body was buried, etc., the lawyer sent it with a notary public seal on it to the DA. The DA had a field day with the needed material. The prisoner got 25 years consecutive and the lawyer got his $100.00 and out of jail. They call it being cooperative with the officials. The poor prisoner was played a sucker . Simply told as a precaution of dealing with some jailhouse lawyers. Good luck with your husband's grievance................38 Special..............:).......

38 special, I agree, using a jailhouse lawyer for a street case is a very risky proposition. Their value lies in fighting the institution &/or the DOC. The areas they seem to be doing most of their work (when I was in), time credit restoration, appealing write ups, visiting, & mail problems. With the passage of the PLRA a prisoner must exhaust all institutional remedies, & appeals processes before he can file a court case. I've read of many court cases being thrown out because the prisoner hadn't gone through all the intitutional prosesses.----Ken

JDs...

That's great to hear that you got the needed info. to get things going! I was even happier to hear that JD was happy & thinking a little more positive!!

Keep us posted on how things are going?

so did anything new happen on this front?

I haven't heard anything back from the guy yet.... trying to be patient, but with each day that passes I am getting concerned.... Did I get screwed?!? Time will tell I suppose.....

Can you write him & ask him what's going on JDs?

Maybe you can write him and ask if there is any more inmformation that you could research and send to him.
Maybe he needs it typed out?

Richard always has problems getting to a typewriter when he is working on his cases. They restrict the use of copiers and typewriters to only prisoners that work in the library. They restrict his postage so he can't get his legal briefs sent out in time for deadlines. Now they reqyure a thumb print to record the outgoing legal documents. Only the supervisor can authorize thumbprints so guess what? The supervisor is never availble. So maybe he is having a similar problem.

I am going to drop him another line I think...I am going to send him some other case info I found that may be helpful and just inquire abut whether he received the previous cases.... and Torrey... you are right... I think he has his own typewriter but who knows what other "hurdles" he may be jumping... I am trying to stay hopeful! :)

that is the best way to approach it.. Know that it is God who is in control and it will be taken care of...

Shawna,

I don't think you screwed up, relax this will take awhile. You mailed everything on the 16th of June, which means he probably didn't get it till the end of the week. This means he's only had it for two weeks. It takes time to put all his research together & to fill out the paper work, & submit it. Once the institution gets it they will probably take 30-60 days to respond, so your still within a reasonable time frame. Keep us posted.-----Ken

Shawna, Larry kept a case in the courts for almost 4 years on the mandatory language of the Virginia Parole Statue which states that when an inmate is found eligible and suitable for Parole that he shall be given it, It doesn't say may be released like some states do! It went all the way to the United States Supreme Court and they sent it back to the Virginia 4th curcuit court which then said it was untimely which it was not, but since Larry was his own lawyer and he was an inmate there wasn't alot that we could do! But, things are really looking up with the parole system since our new govenor took over! I do believe Larry may come home when he goes up last quarter! Well, good luck! I don't get much time lately to get to Pto but, maybe soon things won't be so hectic! Penny

Just wanted to let everyone know that as soon as I sent out another note (and some more legal research) to this guy, I did get another letter from him (our letters crossed in the mail).... He let me know he received my letter and that he was almost done with the first round of administrative grievances...... so he hasn't forgotten us at least.... I will definitely keep you all posted on how things work out!! Thanks for the encouragement!!

GLAD TO HEAR YOU GOT A RESPONSE. THAT IS GOOD.

GLAD TO HEAR IT SHAWNA!

It's been my experience that most jailhouse lawyers are straight up....but the system will keep them moving from prison to prison, especially if they are good. Besides that, JD is comfortable with the situation and the price is right!

In 1961 (15 years old) i had a jailhouse lawyer help me get my sentence cut from 30 years to 3 years.

He most likely works in the legal library and has better access to the proper forms needed.

Hope it all turns out for the best.........
Jerry

Jerry....
Thanks for your perspective!! :) I am glad to hear from someone who has been successful in a battle against the system.... :) I just want JD to face a FAIR consequence....

see you can get justice.. that is good to know

You're very welcome JDswife.....
I was forced to learn law in the early 60's and eventually won.
Ever since that happened....i have just about gone pro se on all my cases.
Can't imagine what would have happened back then with the super information highway we have today.
We could have probably shut the Florida Prison System down.

And to this day, I swear the only crime I committed was 'getting caught'

Take care
Jerry

LOL Jerry, my brother always says everything is legal until you get caught.
Shawna,
I think as long as Jody feels confidant with him you should be ok, often these guys are so determined to help other because they truly believe the system is wrong.
It will all work out, I just know it!

Hi, I'm new and just reading through looking for another topic "BUT" my husband is one of these Jailhouse Lawyer's and from what I've seen he's usually right on. One inmate got 4 years off his sentance and there are many more.

However, DOC does not like these guy's and can really mess with them. It's not like the squecky wheel gets the grease inside, more like they see you as a thorn in their side.

Your doing a good thing, the price is right and it's better to deal with someone who has been through this than many of the lawyers who say nothing can be down. We have a lawyer who has helped us and my kids over the years so when hubby told him about one of his projects our lawyer said "No, Way." Well, it was way and now our lawyer has offered him a job when he gets out.

So, good luck to you and always question, question, question and follow your feeling. :dance:

I admire the determination of your loved one. I was kicked out (transferred) from 4 prison camps because I wrote grievances and helped other inmate to do the same. In prison you have to stand up for yourself, but the drawback is kinda like that son, "I fought the law, and the law won". Your loved one may already know, but prisons will rarely admit guilt. They'll find some way to make you look wrong, or if they cannot do that, they could "trump" up a charge on you, or ship you off the camp. Still, I believe the inmate that fights for his rights ( by using his head ) is the most dangerous inmate in the prison system. Would I have paid another inmate for help? If it makes you and your loved one feel better, and if your loved one really wants that, go for it. It is, after all, your money.