I'm having an interesting discussion with an inmate in Kansas, on the topic of women who work in prisons.

This includes all women, from guards to nurses in infirmaries, to secretaries in the warden's office etc.

He is firmly of the conviction that women should NOT be in men's prisons at all. This is for all sorts of reasons, ranging from:

a) strip searches by women done on men
b)arousal of lust in very lonely men
c) that the men are so lonely they will misinterpret even a simple "good morning" as a sexual come-on, or a sign of love
d) that women are naturally life-givers, and the prison system is a life-taker, that will gradually erode her good-heartedness
e) How can she justify getting a paycheque to feed her kids, from a system built upon abuse?
and other arguments, too.

I of course have my own set of counter-arguments, which I'll refrain (for now) from posting...

So. You're turn, everyone...

Menolly

That list sounds just like many the Catholic Priest 's used to kick out nuns from the convents and closed down the cloisters back in 1700's.

Men like that you can't argue with. Not worth my time and energy to try to educate them it is 2002 now.

Oh My Goodness Torrey;

Here I was trying to be all sensitive to his "special" views as a male inmate. I missed the mysogynistic tone completely. *Smackin' myself in the middle of my forehead*

He talks with a "caring and want-to-protect-them" tone. So I was trying to listen so intently, I missed what wasn't being said, and what was between the lines.

Hoo wheee... Is that boy in trouble now! (hehehehe...)

Some counterarguments I've made include such things as

"Why do you see the system as robbing HER of her humanity, instead of her giving a gift to the inhumane institution?"

"Would you rather give a paychque to a brute of a guard to feed his kids, and raise his kids with the same brutish mentality? Maybe HER paycheque will feed a kid who'll one day become a civil rights activist, who'll work on prison reform."

"Don't you think, that women are much less likely to impose beatings, or to stand silently by as she witnesses beatings? Maybe the presence of women in prison is NECESSARY to humanize the place."

All the "Yes buts..." have been interesting, but I'm running out of them.

He hasn't raised the issue yet of inmates wives being jealous of other women spending more time with their man, than they can... but he seems to be working up to that one.

So ladies. What do I say then?

(Please don't read all of this as anything more that a philosophical discussion between him and I. He's a great guy, and I like to make him think outside the box, once in a while.)

Menolly

From a male prisoners point of view, I think the guys all wet. Menolly, you countered his arguments just right. Women guards like men guards run the gamut, from nice to being real b***hs. As for the office workers & medical staff, women for the most part do bring in a humanitarian aspect.

As for lust, you can take out all the women, & it will have absolutly no effect on men lusting, LOL

One thing you learn real quick is that females working in prison, its a hands-off policy, if you tread that water you will sink. I've heard about prisoners hooking up with guards or staff but it is so rare, & the punishment makes even going there not worth the risk.

As for a pay check, I talked to a female guard who got the job through a welfare to work program, which allowed her to take care of her family, get off welfare & get away from an abusive husband.

Just a few thoughts-----Ken

I once had a (mild) situation in Kingston Pen, where a new guy saw me visiting and made a "Show me you *******" kind of comment. The guys who knew were more offended than I was!

I just wagged my finger at the guy and say "Uh Uh! Only those who behave get to think such things about women. And YOU are NOT behaving."

But the guys who knew me. They stood there and told him off en masse. They outlined the BENEFITS of being polite to women in the prison, especially since I was not staff, but an outsider...

He apologized in an awful hurry!

I must say I have at times gotten more respect from the boys inside, than I have from ordinary men out here!

Well, I do agree that women officers run the gamut from being real bitches to not-so-bitchy. But alot of women officers I found have some sort of personal agenda for wanting to work in a prison in the first place! That is alot of them, and I am generalizing here I realize, are men-haters and find this a perfect opportunity to be punitive. I have also found that the women officers can be worse than the men as far as meanness goes! This can be #1 because they are men haters; or #2 becuase they have to prove something to the men they work with and the inmates. They have to show that they are not kind and compassionate and weak; and also fend off sexual advances from both inmates and male officers. Sometimes they do this by overreacting, and being REAL bitches! Well I think I am rambling here, but to quote a woman friend of mine who is a prison nurse "It's a man's world in here". My vote is NO to women working in mens' prisons, especially as officers.

I have some thoughts on this subjuct but out of respect I just leave it alone.. No everyone is the same and I just do not care to open that can of worms..

I THINK THERE IS SOME MERIT TO BOTH VIEWS-PERSONALLY, I BELIEVE IN EQUAL OPPORTUNITY SO I SUPPORT WOMEN WORKING IN MEN'S PRISONS-HOWEVER, I DO THINK THERE ARE CERTAIN TASKS THEY SHOULD NOT PERFORM SUCH AS STRIP/BODY CAVITY SEARCHES AND/OR ANYTHING ELSE THAT INVOLVES CLOSE PHYSICAL CONTACT- IT IS A MATTER OF BOTH RESPECT AND UNNECESSARY PHYSICAL STIMULATION. I ALSO THINK THAT MEN SHOULD HAVE THE SAME LIMITATIONS IN FEMALE PRIONS. THESE ARE JUST MY PERSONAL THOUGHTS ON THE SUBJECT.

Oooh... this is an interesting discussion....
KConnor... I have to agree very strongly with one thing you said... that the punishment for an inmate who hooks up with a woman who works within the walls are severe... HOW TRUE!! :) I have some personal experience with THAT...
I agree with a lot of other things that have been said by others too... But Menolly, it sounds like you are just looking to consider different perspectives, so here is one that hasn't been thrown out with... If you remove all women from male prisons... How is that going to prepare them for coping with the world when they are released?? When I worked inside, I definitely got a lot of respect from MOST of the inmates and DEFINITELY saw guys correct and teach other guys who did show me disprespect.... that "opportunity for learning" wouldnt' be present if there were NO women in male prisons...

I think that it would be alright for a woman to work in a male prison facility as long as she goes by their guidlines. I think they are better at things like counseling and infirmaries. The women that usually work the floor look like they are in shape. I know I wouldn't work in one though...

I can't agree to disqualifying either gender from working in either type of facility. Both genders need healthy exposure to each other. It depends on the individual personality, of course. I would be tempted to take full advantage. On the other hand, I know a perfect female candidate for such a position who was turned down a volunteer position due to a prior. (?) She would have loved to have set a fine example of possible reform and sucessful reentry.

Isadora;

Perhaps I should mention that this topic came up with some of my "penpals" because I am a palliative support worker, (with the terminally ill, Aids patients etc.) and I MENTIONED that Kingston Pen had opened an 8 bed palliative unit, and MAYBE I should apply for a job there.

Well, the guys I write to went nuts. A whole bunch said I'd be great comfort to the sick inmates. Other's said I'd burn out because I was too humane.

But this one in Kansas who's very opposed to women working in prisons has challenged me to convince him! Ooh, he should know better than to dare me...

I wasn't talking TO THEM about becoming a guard. I meant working in the infirmary, with the dying inmates, who most need kindness and compassion.

Menolly

Shortie:

Perhaps in view of my response to Isadora, you should e-mail me privately. I would LOVE to hear what you'd have to say on the matter.

Menolly

Sherrie;

Hmm; "close physical contact". I guess that rules out working in the infirmary?

Maybe I am incredibly naive, but I can combine physical contact with respect. That's my job.

But, perhaps inmates, so long out of the presence of women, cannot do so. Maybe that's what my Kansas buddy is trying to tell me.

Thanks for your comments.

Menolly

JDsW:

Thank You. This is another point I've made to him.

Over the years of writing, I've gently proven that not all women are the same as "Your Mom" or "Your Ex-Wives". This was great news to some of the guys, especially those whose only experiences with women have been horrendous.

Of course, writing letters is very different from being a (female) member of the prison staff. Still, the opportunity to provide a different kind of example of "femaleness" (read that as: NOT a B****) might be there.

I've found some guys are so relieved at a bit of kindness, they melt; others gets scared and mistrustful (What are you up to?); still others are so used to abuse that started with their Mom, they are tremendously confused by kindness, and genuinely don't know how to react. so they respond with tried and true reactions like bravado, or studly posturing etc.

With letter writing, there is distance and time to "straighten them out" that there wouldn't be if one was actually working (in any capacity) inside the prison.

Menolly

Leonda;

You also prove my point. Women can bring humaneness into a prison, especially in the "offices" where it is most needed. Cousellors. Nurses. Chaplains...

I know a Wiccan priestess who has a coven in Kingston Pen. She has done absolute wonders with the guys. They've built peace gardens on prison grounds, learned how to file "Freedom of Religion" grievances, understood that their actions can have far-reaching effects beyond the immediate present...

I think there are places where women can be very effective, but everyone thinks they shouldn't be there.

Menolly

"Healthy exposure" is the key. (And no, I am NOT making a pun!)

If a woman goes into a prison job with a healthy self-esteem, and for the RIGHT reasons, I believe she could do some good in someone's day.

But, if she is a man-hater, or a feminist with an agenda to prove, or a weeping willow who'll collapse at the first profanity, or come-on...

Maybe there should be some kind of psychological assessments done first. But if the assessors were the prison psychologists, goodness knows what qualities THEY'd be looking for.

Menolly

Menolly, dealing with that type medical situations in a prison setting, is a dual role, when a person is, as concerned with people as you are. Mental health is a issuse too and in time could spell "burn-out" in dealing with both?

A person can "care" too much, and come to a point where there no dam good to themselves or others. A person needs to know there limit(s) before reaching out. Self is job #1, all "others" has to fall in line.

THANK YOU BRAY.... I THINK YOU HAVE JUST OPENED MY EYES.. I AM TO THAT VERY POINT RIGHT NOW OF HURTING MYSELF MORE THAN I AM HELPING. EVEN MY MIND IS LOOSING ITS ABILITY TO THINK.... THANKS FOR SAYING THAT.


MY LOVE
DONNA

Bray;

Exactly!

My present job as a palliative care worker is the type of job where many people burn out quickly. They either stop caring. Or they fall apart because they care too much.

Socrates said "know thyself".

I spit death in the eye on a daily basis, with my ternminally ill patients. I don't cringe too easily.

I've also spent years interacting (as a penpal, volunteer visitor etc.) with inmates. I had just been casually contemplating the subject of women in prison, in general, and ME working in a prison palliative unit in particular.

I never thought casually mentioning the subject to my penpals would arouse such ESSAYS of debate! It's actually been fun, in a way, to find out their attitudes to women in general, and me in particular.

Some of the guys (including my Kansas buddy) when speaking of women in general are SO OPPOSED based on women they've known (including female guards) while at the same time, expressing great WORRY for me in particular, as if I'm some delicate gentle flower who'd wither. (D'ya think they care a little?...)

Menolly

Budwoman;

I was unsure how to answer you, and went to read your recent postings to see if I could discern why you feel you're "Hurting yourself, more than you are helping". But with 644 postings, Yikes!

So how about I just put on the cyber-kettle, and we have a nice cup of tea or coffee. Do you need a cat to cuddle? a Kleenex? How about some peaceful time at the side of a lake?

It sounds like rather than being able to think, you need to be able to REST! Don't confuse those two. I often do!

(But what the heck do I know?)

Love,
Menolly

you asked me to comment on this and I have to again say that i am going to refrain. There is a woman in the prison where my husband is and she is calling herself liking my husband. I really do not think right now is an appropirate time to respond to this topic.. I am upset right now.. Hope you understand

i do think the approach that you are taking is a great one.. we need to have people like you in there. I am medically trained myself and have dealt with terminally ill patients and also sudden death patients they need compassion and to see the world as a good place before they go.. it is vital.

Oh Shortie: I'm so sorry if my discussion is scraping at your pain.

I can't imagine your helplessness faced with such a scenario. It is a possibility that my Kansas friend has alluded to, but hasn't outrightly listed as a reason women shouldn't be there.

He IS married, and I suspect what he's leading up to is that his wife thinks he's messin' with a female guard, when he isn't.

I read your other post about "his letter".

Sometimes there are no words that can make anyone feel better.

Are ((((((HUGZ))))) ok?

Love,
Menolly

THANKS FOR RESPECTING WHY I CHOSE TO REFRAIN FROM THIS ONE RIGHT NOW.. LOVE YA TOO MENOLLY!! THANKS FOR THE HUGS SURE DID NEED THEM..

Donna, you have been fighting the good fight for eons.

Maybe you need to back off a bit and just deal with what has to be done for awhile?

Insight and know how, goes a long way in helping others, due the work!

It's not easy, when one has been so rapped up in it, to turn it too "others". But sometime one just has too! Keeping the little pinkie in the pot is rewarding tho! :-)

THANKS MENOLLY AND BRAY AND YOU ARE VERY CORRECT... I HAVE REALLY HAD TO BACK OFF OVER THE PAST FEW WEEKS.... THINGS HAVE GOTTEN TO BE MORE THAN MY SMALL LITTLE MIND CAN DEAL WITH.... ANYWAY, WHAT WILL IT MATTER IN A THOUSAND YEARS?

THANKS FOR ALL YOUR LOVE AND CARING.... YOU GUYS MEAN SO VERY MUCH TO ME.

MY LOVE
DONNA

Ah Donna;

Don't cut yourself down, girl. A small mind? The world gets changed by big hearts, m'dear. (And big minds invented the nuclear bomb!)

As for how much it'll matter in a thousand years? Hmmm, I'm sure glad Buddha, and Jesus and Mohammad and others of their ilk didn't feel that way.

Humanistic kindness DOES affect the world for a thousand years! Especially since it's so darned contagious!

Besides what's wrong with changing one person's day, for a few moments? That might be all it takes to make the rest of their life different, and if enough of us do that, the world does change, from all our small efforts.

Love,
Menolly

If females didn't work in prisons, guys would have nothing to look forward to.

Thsi is what I say to women who work In Male prisons....YOU GO GIRL!!!!!

Women can do whatever they feel like doing! If they meet the qualifications OR they're more qualified than a male why shouldn't they work there?! HELLO People! This is 2003 in America!

i worked as a female guard for nearly 5yrs,yes,women have the rights to work in prisons but they do not get treated as an equal,they are accused of many things and weather they are innocent really doesnt matter for most will be found guilty

Yes I agree with jo jo's girl; it is like that in there.

I do not think that women guards should be CO's at a men facility...I have my own reasons for that...My sisters mother in law was a CO and the guys in there knew everything about her as to what she drove, to where she lived, how many kids she had, and so forth and so on...I think that them being counslers is ok but I am not so sure about them even working in the infirmary...I think there is a reason for it being a male prison and I have heard of to many women getting seriously injured when if it was a male, they could have handled there own a little better...I am not looking for debates on this it is just my opinion...

We wanted equal rights, right? So if a woman can do the job, I say it's ok.

How about men working in women's prisons? From all that I've seen, read, and heard, there is way more sex going on in those situations!

MRS LMW I'm not looking for an argument but I would like to say that it's about way more than being able to do the job. (Women working in mens' prisons)

This is my story of being excepted as a female officer. For when I started in 1990 women in men prisons was not excepted well at all. I stared down south on a unit called Ellis 1. It was death row and I woked G.P. Now there was alot a females already starting to work there so I didn't have much trouble. But then I tranfered to a unit in West Texas (Daniels unit). When I got there I was one of five women working there as officers. That was also the first prison built in that area. So when I arrived I had a sargent to come to me and tell me he did not like females working in the system and he totaly disagreed with me being there. I would have to prove to him that I deseved to be one of his. I told him oh well, I am here if you like it or not and I went own about my bussiness. I took care of a lot of things male officers would not do or could not handle. Young kids coming in that was scared and needed someone to talk to he could come to me. I gave them a shoulder to cry on that most male officer would not give. But then I did not take any s_ _t off them either. And they new that. When I came on to the wing it was "moms here every one get there stuff hid and put on your shirt". I also worked the wing where all the gays were for potection. Guess who they respected for I did not make fun of them like alot of the male officers did. They could talk to me when they had a problem, but again they new not to mess with me. Well about a month later that same sargent seen me on the reck yard. There was at the time maybe 300-400 inmates on there. It was very open. He came up to me and said "you know if I needed back up I just hope you are the one covering my back" He said, "you do your job alot better than alot of these male officer I have seen. I am sorry for what I said and I have nothing but respect for you". Now I also want to say that alot of things has changed since that day and there is alot of male and female officer that don't need to be there. But if we pull out all the ones who don't need to be there then your loved ones would be locked down 24 hours a day, for there is not enough officers like it is.I know my opinion don't mean alot when it comes to these kind of post, but i just wanted to give a little insight that sometimes a female officer being there does benifit the inmates in ways thay male officer can't.

Your opinion certainly DOES mean alot, being as you are not just tossing out perceptions that have been bred from insecurities. You were actually in there, doing the job the best way you knew how.
Sounds to me like those inmates you were guarding benefitted greatly from your feminine humanity and compassion.

Being a female ex-employee in a male prison I feel I must also voice my opinon There is really nothing wrong with women working in a male prison. In fact most male prison have more women guards then men. As for the strip search thing most unit try to place male guards in those position that would require a strip search, but it was also told be me that a female officer can strip search but not give the order to the inmate to start stripping, as if the makes any sense but oh well. But I think alot of the men that dont like women working in prison have that whole thing about feeling that they must protect the women, and they dont want to come off as less of a man casue they have to tell their homie to back off. Thats what I ran into when I worked there, most of the men felt like they had to protect and watch over me. Maybe because I am only 5'2 and looked like a little sister doing the time that I was there, go figure. In closing I think anyone that wants to can make a job at the prison what they want to make it cause its all about how you do your job.

I wouldn't mind working in a prison at all. I think it would be very interesting and I think it is very prejudice to say that a woman should not be working in a man's prison. Just an opinion, but woman working in men's prison is not that bad, in fact I think it's great and there are plenty of woman who are just as tough as men. Even tougher.

I feel that if a woman wants to work at a mens facility it is her decision to do that. These inmates should not have a say so about whether she should work there of not. If she is out there supporting herself, it should not be anything said about it. I don't think the inmates should put the women down for being productive members of society.

well well well...what a topic....

one thing I can say as an exoffender is that not all inmates view women in prisons the same...although when men are together there are expectations for a man to almost always want to have sex or be willing to have sex. Alot of people think about women and having sex all day long..living from G-shot to G-shot....sex magazines and spades all day....Whereas a prison guard that could be totally unattractive with a small beard would be a welcoming reality perceived far superior to any pornographic magazine. The scent of cheap perfume in a Penal Vacuum excites a deprived inmate. Is that a good thing or a bad thing?...I mean it seems harmless, right?

Deprived sexually excited inmates tend to welcome the pat down from female officers...they wave and joke for it...I've seen guys seriously joke for a female office to pat him down,praying to be groped...while the rest of the inmates and sometimes officers laughed.....Personally I thought and still think it sad for young men to be lusting after ugly old women....I mean people lust lust lust to the point that in the day room, people that have beat up child molestors, were lusting after 13 teen year old girls on the television making digusting comments....I mean, the total effect of how prison can lower a man's "taste value" or what he really "deserves" or how deprivation distorts how a man feels and think about women can be pretty digusting in prison.


Not all female prison employees are old and ugly...some are not mean and stuck-up....Half a gallery could fall in love with a female guard with a soft voice and brief direct eye contact, he'd swear you wanted him..lol...And then thats the case sometimes...I've had two cellies that have had sexual relationships with female guards. Afterall, a "good" man is hard to find...lol...It's easy pluckings for just about any kind of woman to take advantage of a young good looking man thats sexually deprived....distortion by deprivation is a mutha...I remember when an inmate was having sex with the wife of a Captain in the institution and the drama that unfolded when the gossip got around to the Captain...hmmm

I remember when this school teacher had this relationship with an inmate student and when she got caught..she was fired and publicly humiliated in the local town paper. I have seen letters and enveloped with money order stamps from female prison employees...Is that healthy or not?

The temptation is always going to be right there for some female guards to at least peek at some muscles or to slightly feel his private parts doing a shakedown...on the other hand even christian inmates find themselves peeking and creeping with naked books....and then you have the countless number of rapes over the years of female prison employees, men prison employees in other cases...so the element of temptation is always there....

but what about the inmate that don't want to be groped by a strange woman or doesn't want to be peeked at or doesn't welcome that temptation. It's really demoralizing. I mean I felt like if I was going to be groped(sexually assualted) then I felt at least it could of been by a Fine ass woman...lol...I remember this Captain Wright virtually stalked me....so I stopped going to lunch on her shift....

Worse of all...was when this gay captain literally groped you...plain for everybody to see and it was nothing you could do about it , short of going to seg. and losing good time...so I stopped going to breakfast on his shift...otherwise I was going to lose some good time....I'd rather have a bulldyke grope me than a gay man, cause I aint gay....lol

Lastly, I have seen a greater outcry for Men guards not to be in female prisons than for Females not to be in men prisons...and that to me truely underlines the greater disparity issue between men and women prison employees....


Pain

A VIEW FROM BOTH SIDES...

I was twenty years old when I went to work doing an internship a male medium security prison. I went to work in the social services department.

I believe all inmates have very good insticts on how far to go with each prison employee. They do test those bounds.

I am a person who believes in treating everyone with respect and kindness. I believe that you treat people the way you want to be treated. I was treated well and liked by most inmates. However, there are those who made rude sexual comments and waited to be written up to see if I would.
I chose not to. I believe my life would have been hell if I would have stayed at that prison beyond my six month internship.I found guys who I thought were attractive, I felt very sorry for many of them. I believe I would have been disrespected for constantly for not writing them up.

I left the correctional arena for two years and returned to a work in a half way house setting, for male probationers parolees and furloughees. I wrote them up when they needed to written up, Yet I still treated them with kindness and I found the right balance.

I think women in a mens institution can work well. However, I beleive it would require discipline, self restraint and prayer.
I think many inmates have been victimized much of their lives and I think if the bounds are crossed they are a victims again. We tell them self restrait will keep them from returning yet prison staff lack self restraint constantley.

I was incarcerated in 1990 and most of the CO's were men. I never saw a CO cross the bounds yet there were always rumors of it. There was a huge suit in place by several pregnant inmates, who became that way while incarcerated.

With all of that said I guess problems may be less with a same sex institution but I have never heard of one who knows.

I can just say after being locked up with all women. I was glad there were male CO's to talk to or life in prison would have been even further from reality on the streets.

Well here i am again. Having been a prisoner I have to say I didin't like it when I had to take a shower and the men guards were sitting up in the glass towers watching all of us. If the women are in the same position which I presume they are, of course men are going to be less shy as we women are but I know I hated it. That should at least be the one thing we can keep to our selves. But being prison it's wht they do they strip us of all human feelings and pride is the first one they try to take. And women guards are not allowed to do strip searches nor are the men in the womens facilities. Only a pat down. And yes there are those in both that have affairs and even fall in love and marry. But whos to say where any one can work but I just don't think it is good for either to be that close in these circumstances it does put alot on inmates and guards I saw it in hobby and had a girlfriend prison guard that married an inmate and have a guy friend in rght now that is having a thing with one so it happens alot and if they werent put in that position it wouldn't happen
. cindergirl

I look at a different picture. I have heard more often than not that Women guards try to convince the male inmates *some of them* to have sexual content with them. The male inmates say they have a good woman at home and the female guards try to convice them otherwise saying that all women are the same and they would give it up first chance they get. WRONG!!! Are all facilities like this or some more so than others? What is your take and what do you think on my opinon. It happend to me or my man was just trying to make me jealous either way what you thoughts? Has that happend to you?

I DON'T THINK THAT WOMAN SHOULD WORK IN A MANS PRISON BECAUSE YOU NEVER KNOW THERE HAVE BEEN THE ODD TIME WHERE THE CO THAT HAS BEEN FEMALE HAS TRIED TO PICK UP THE INMATE AND I WOULD NEVER WANT THAT TO AHVE TO HAPPEN TO MY MAN AND I DON'T THNK THAT THEIR SHOULD BE ANY FEMALE WORKING THEIR A MENS JAIL IS FOR MEN AND ONLY MEN AND A FEMALES JAIL IS FOR FEMALE AND ONLY FEMALE THANK YOU VERY MUCH

It sounds to me like he's just trying to make sure you remember that he's irresistable and loyal:) It's nice to read a thoughtful discussion on this. Our experience has been that the women in the system at every level- from the courthouse to the big house- are more likely to be able to recognize when somebody's truly a decent human being and treat them accordingly. Those types are a godsend.
During Eric's trial, there was a police report with lies on it given to him as part of the prosecution's disclosure. He called a witness who could rebut the lie. And although the judge had allowed Eric to mark it "defense exhibit D", he snatched it back when he saw how Eric intended to use it. He said, "Wait a minute, that isn't evidence," and took it away. The clerk- bless her honest soul- said "Yes it is!" Hope the appellate court agrees with her, pleeeeze Great Goddess:)
As for the fact that some COs fall in love with inmates, and other people take advantage of each other sexually, who else are people going to fall in love/lust/whatever with than the people they know from work? Every couple had to meet someplace. If there's one thing PTO proves it's that we're all (well most of us) just human. There are the Godless power trippers and lost souls and then there are the real people...and a lot of the blackest sinners around here are wearing suits and not county orange. Or county blue, or state green, whatever.
Eric's been nastily abused by male law enforcement- in fact that is the main reason he is where he is, because he ran when he thought it was about to happen again. He gets along okay with decent male officers, but I thank all the powers that there are women where he is. Women spot the extreme gentleness there that men miss and that will help me help him keep it alive.

Woman can also be a great problem. They can turn really nasty if an inmate doesn't reciprocate their advances and it meant six months in seg for Tony when he was on the Row. That CO is still there and isn't the nicest of people when I visit and she's got gatehouse duty.

Tony says the only female COs he gets along with and trusts are the lesbians. They're truly not interested in men, inmates or otherwise.


I think an all male workforce would be the best situation , as would an all female one in women's prisons. But, I suppose, in this age of equality (well, for some are more equal than others!!) that's just too much to ask.

Rose

Having female CO's in a men's prison and vice versa contributes to the degradation and humiliation of the inmates of each sex. Since society has deemed inmates as worthless, no one cares.

it shouldnt happen. i know of several situations both men and women that work in a male prison or female prison and things have happened that shouldnt. it shouldnt be permitted though, i disagree with it all

Punishment for the individual (guard, staff worker, whatever) who hooks up with the inmate can be very severe too! In some states, it is a felony & they are taking it seriously.
As a female who worked in the prison system, let me just say this: more of the inmates were respectful to me than disrespectful. Now don't get me wrong, I'd get the lewd comments from time to time...but it wasn't any worse than if I went to a bar! LOL Not to mention, that many of those guys would go out of their way to reprimand those who made the ugly comments. Regardless of the crime, incarcerated men can be gentlemen, although some people have a hard time understanding/believing that. He does raise some good points though Menolly, regardless of how caveman like they are! He just needs to be enlightened by a strong-minded female...or hit over the head! Good luck!

I don't think that women should be working in a male facility!!!!!!My personal opinion...

I think that women have just as much right to work in a men's prison as men have to work in a women's prison. I do know that where my husband Ralf is women CO's do not srtip search the inmates, nor are they allowed to be present when inmates are strip searched. That only makes sense.

i work in public radio, and have been doing a lot of shows on prison rights, the mass incarceration that is taking place in the u.s., we now have over 2mil locked up, we do not have a justice system, racism and classism prevail through out the system etc.

to add another perspective:

for women prisoners the male co's are a constant threat to their privacy, the women are forced to endure body cavity searches atleast 3x a day, basically every time they are moved ie: to eat, to go to work etc. when they have a contact visit, when they go to court...the gurads are allowed to pat down their breasts etc.

the women are constantly watched when they shower, use the toilet, get dressed...if they try to cover up with a sheet for instance they will get in trouble..

this is not about equality ie: men being allowed to work in women's prisons, it is about human rights, decencey, humanity and respect, if these men did this to women who were free they would be arrested...


70% of guards in women prisons are men...

the 13th ammendment which freed the slaves, included a statement which said, "...except for those who are duly convicted..." so in otherwords prisoners in the united states are still slaves, and thus are treated so..

it truely is a horrific human rights crisis....

i wish for peace, however
peace is not possible until all are treated with decency and respect-
francis

What about the female guards who begin relationships with inmates?

What about them?

this is an old thread and there's current ones on this topic going at the moment.. I'm closing this for the time being.