Forgive me if this seems to be a trifle politically incorrect to ask, BUT...

As the whole world seems to know, we DO NOT have the death penalty in Canada. Yet I personally know of deaths that occur in the prison system here, that are CAUSED by guards, or policies of denied medical care etc.

Do these deaths count? Sure, they don't fit the usual death penalty criteria, but they sure do count to the other inmates who are terrified into perpetually wondering "Is it my turn next?" And they sure do count to the inmates' families.

Two examples:

ROBERT "TEX" GENTLES. Had his radio up loud during a lockdown, in an attempt to drown out the guys' yelling etc. A guard tells him to turn it off. Tex refused. SIX guards decide to do a cell extraction with batons, mace etc. Tex was an asthmatic. They maced him in the face, pinned him face down on his mattress, with one guard sitting on his head, while the others beat the daylights out of him.

Repercussions? A lengthy inquest that resulted in numerous "recommendations", but no guards fired!

TY CONN. Typical childhood of multiple adoptions, abuse, training schools, juvenile facilities. He ends up in Kingston Pen, for bank robberies. (Never a shot fired...) Problem is that he has each charge decided in a different courtroom and different town. When they finally "toted up" his sentences, he was in for 47 years! After doing 18 years, he felt he'd "done enough time, since murderers are out in 25 years". So he escaped Kingston Pen, and fled to Toronto. The Pen sent down the SWAT teams, and SERC units. Ty is on the phone with a television reporter from CBC. BOOM! Shotgun blast in the centre of his chest. Who shot him? It's still unclear, but Correctional Services claim he committed suicide.

Hmmm...

At least the U.S. is up front about who they decide to kill, and when. The Canadian system is much "sneakier" in my humble opinion.

I could post many other such stories, if you're interested.

Menolly

Menolly,
Even down here more people die in prison from other causes than being executed. Most die from old age & whats called medical neglect. Then deaths from inmates & guards. I think executions are pretty far down the line.

Oh Ken;

Don't even get me going about the medical neglect! I could post a thousand stories, and probably get booted off the site, for "hogging all the space!"

For example, in 1988, I participated in a study on the health of the P4W, in Kingston. (That's Prison For Women; shut down since last year.)

Over 80% had AIDS!!!!
And 93% had Hepatitis C!!!!

Now, somebody try to convince me that isn't a death penalty, especially since most of the cases were contracted AFTER entering the prison, largely because cleanup of all blood spills (from slashings, fights, suicide attempts etc.) were assigned to the other inmates. And you can be sure there weren't rubber gloves etc.

Menolly

So Ken;

Where do all those people's names go?

I think a website listing the THOUSANDS of names, with a 10 word or less description of how they died, would SHOCK the average tax payer, who's tax dollars is paying for the abuse!

Does that make every taxpayer an accomplice of sorts?

Not really, because these names, these deaths sink into secrecy and oblivion behind the walls.

The average taxpayer only hears about the state putting death row inmates to death. And the average taxpayer can convince themselves that they had all their appeals etc.

Ty Conn and Tex Gentles had no trial, much less any appeal process.

So my question is WHY don't these names get memorialized also?

Menolly

No prisoner should be denied medical attention! Thats torture, I certaintly dont agree with that. Even those on deathrow should have medical attention, we have the lethal injection for a reason, so we shouldnt torture inmates, no matter how serious the crime.

Medical care for inmates became my pet peeve a few years ago when the guys at Kingston Pen went on a hunger strike on behalf of FOUR diabetics who were only allowed to have insulin shots from Monday to Friday!

On weekends, the other inmates were supposed to keep an eye on the four to watch for diabetic comas. As if they could do a darned thing for them if it came down to that.

I work in the medical system, and I know that a 5 day a week insulin regime leads to kidney failure, blindness etc. I was livid! And this hunger strike has focused all my "prison reform" energies ever since, on the medical abuses that go on.

I firmly believe that medical care should be handled by outside agencies, or the ministry of health.

Correctional Services Canada knows about incarceration. They know nothing about health care, so why is it under their jurisdiction, in the first place?

But then again, I'm an idealist. So what the heck do I know, huh?

Menolly

http://www.tompaine.com/feature.cfm/ID/5547
This is an article regarding womens cancers being ignored in prison.


Here is an article on HIV patient problems too


HIV+ Prisoners at Corcoran Prison Go on Medication Strike Today
Call or fax your support for their struggle today!

Prisoners with HIV in the Chronic Infectious Disease Unit (CID) at the
California State Prison * Corcoran are on medication strike today, May 13,
to demand adequate medical care and an end to punishment conditions for HIV
prisoners there.

Two weeks ago, Corcoran¹s only HIV medical specialist was fired. A new
general physician (not an HIV specialist), Dr. Friedman, has taken all HIV+
prisoners in the CID unit off their pain medication (including methadone).
Many of these prisoners have painful conditions like peripheral neuropathy.
This act amounts to torture for prisoners with HIV.

There is a general feeling in the CID/HIV unit that HIV+ prisoners are being
singled out for the worst abuse and punishment conditions at Corcoran. This
is the first time that HIV+ prisoners have gone on strike collectively since
the early 1990s at the California Medical Facility at Vacaville.


I have more but you get the ideas

*tuts* although I come across as quite in favour of heafty punishments (such as LWOP for murders and Very LONG setences for rapists) I do not believe in ANYONE being denied medical treatment, its cruel. They should all be fed, and have medical attention, and not abused by gurads. Its really shocking what humans can do to other humans. Its an unfortunate thing that affects many people on the inside and out, but if the govenment is allowing it, it makes it all the much worse.

>>>Its really shocking what humans can do to other humans<<<

It is a dilemma why, some are born, it seems, with an evil, self centered outlook on life. If left unchecked early, they are bounded for trouble at a young age.

One can pick these children out easily as you watch them interact with there peers. It seems to be a natural state for them too operate in.

Even if brought under control when young, where they operate respectfully in Society as adults, they "might" search out jobs, where they can revert back to what was a natural mode of operation.

Just think of a guard, as the big bad bully, in total control of his/her play yard, when there on shift.

They didn't get away with it when young. Now, there getting paid for that attitude. They might be real cool in the neighborhood, until they go on shift, (2 faced), and even cop-out as "the job requires it"?

Good point, Bray. One questions how far back prisoner support could really go? To the childhood? Weren't we all born with the same purity of the soul? How many lives could have been spared such anguish if someone or everyone had intervened with support for these people when they were much younger? People support! People support! People support! Such a huge task...guess I'm just going off on a tangent, here. Venting to the extreme!

Ken:

Yes. Yes. Yes. Spread the word, please!

Another woman at Concoran died of AIDS related kidney failure about 3 weeks back! No one seems to have heard about it.

The executed ones are in every newspaper, along with much brouhaha to stir up John Q. Public's wrath and vengefulness.

But the ones who die inside from medical neglect... What do they call this? Thinning out the herds?

Study after study has proven that they get AIDS and Hep C IN PRISON!

I know you and I are new here, but such info needs to be made public. I hope people here on this site will not get upset with us, if we take a bit of an advocacy stance here, and post links to such stories.

Menolly

Oh and Ken;

I once picked up a woman from Canada's infamous P4W (Prison For Women) when she was let out on Parole. She and I went straight to a hospital emergency room, where they admitted her and gave her a complete hysterectomy 8 hours later.

Roxy couldn't even get an aspirin in prison. She was just 26 years old when this happened.

I can't imagine such a thing as having their "privates" entirely removed, ever happening to a male prisoner.

But, I can equally tell you horror stories from the male point of view!

Menolly

Care and Bray;

As for abusive guards...

Last week a guard in Tulsa was charged with several counts of raping the female inmates...

Turns out he told a little fib on his job application, and forgot to mention he did 16 years in Alabama for rape and attempted murder...

It must have slipped his mind.

Having said that though, I also have to say that I have over the years run into the most humane guards, who have bent over backwards to help me help an inmate. Some of them had to do so very quietly, because they were putting their jobs on the line.

So I am always careful to lump all guards in one group. Just as I do with any group of people.

Care; I'm not so sure "the government allows it", so much as it is allowed to happen because of silence and taxpayer apathy.

That's kind of why I have such a big mouth. I've been called an anarchist, a gadfly, a bleeding heart liberal who's too soft on crime, and lots of other things.

But I've never been called "silent".

So lets get out there, and tell the government we don't like our tax dollars to be used in such atrocious ways.

For years now, I have included with my income tax, a letter to the Canadian government saying "Here are my taxes. Please don't use my money for..." and I list my "causes". They've never responded to me of course, but imagine if governments suddenly received a couple million such leters each April.

Ya think they'd notice...

Oh and Bray, and VNV;

All children are born incredibly self-centred. Ask any Mom whose newborn is screaming at 3 a.m. "Feed me, and clean my poopy diaper!"

One must wonder if we are born with a "soul" (good or evil, as it may be) or do we as a society (starting with Mom and Dad at 3 a.m.) "create" each person's soul, then praise or blame how that soul (personality, morality etc.) behaves as an adult.

I am as much perplexed by what makes a guard viscious, as I am by what makes an offender viscious.

VNV, these aren't "tangents". To me, they are central issues that add vectors and variables to the "crime" equation.

The Big Picture always has many parts...

So VNV, what do you think? Is "the soul" a remnant of religious ideas from the middle ages? Or is "soul" what we identify today with such medico-scientific terms as "personality, self-esteem, aptitude, propensity" etc.

Menolly

I'm sure it is up to each person to decide what "soul" is or even if they should believe in one. Believable is the possibility to mold others as well as one's self with your behavior. Even though that "molding" is just a reaction to said behavior. No matter, the vast problem we face as a whole is to move beyond and constantly improve.
Where to begin?
Thank you , Menolly, for supporting my "tangent" as anything but a fit of passion. Normally I keep myself in check about things I feel so strongly about and am so helpless against. I don't even have a voice anywhere else. Just like so many others. I would never know where to begin taking action. The prison systems are only one place that need reform. It is overwhelming. The more I read here the more I realize how deep these problems run. Something as basic as medical care? Getting a letter? A visit? All of it is just out of hand. There I went again! I better quit before this whole thread is off course! LOL

Menolly,

Yes I heard about the person dieing from kidney failure from aids complications. If it's the same story I heard about, it wasn't a woman, she was a pre-op trans-sexual. She had a female name though. The feeling is that she was treated so bad because she was a trans-sexual.

When my wife got out of jail about 7yrs ago, she had contracted Hepatitus C while inside. She was so sick on her release she collapsed within 2hrs & we rushed her to the hospital, where she spent 6days. She passed away last week, & the coroner said her hepatitus C was a contributing factor.

YES, YES, YES, Keep up the good work. If we don't speak up, then we help the status quo by our silence.

VNV:

With me, sweetie, there are no tangents and going off course. There is only discourse that leads to other important aspects of topics. Conversation is a flow...

As to this topic (inmates) there is NOWHERE to talk. My own family thinks I am crazy to care. But then again, they think I am crazy for caring about Native (Indian) rights, and racism, and war, and poverty, and battered women and so many other things. But inmates rights, it's darned hard to find people who even believe they have the right to be alive!

About the only ones who care at times are their families, and they are held in such disregard, ("What went on in YOUR house all those years, to create a son/brother such as yours?" society sneers.). And they are held in terror for their loved one who is inside. The families' voices are rendered silent.

Some "fits of passion" as you called it, needed to be expressed. Better yet, organize it with others of similar passion, and you have a movement, darling!

Cultivate your voice! Voices that found expression have, in the past, done away with drawing and quartering, and the guillotine and such. Just keep on talking. I never assume I will be heard. But I make sure THEY will never assume I will be silent.

It is so lovely to hear your voice, my dear!

Menolly

Your wife passed away last week? I am so sorry to hear this.

My husband passed away Sept 21, 1999. For about 8 months, I hardly even left the house, I was so devastated. Luckily I had a teenaged son, so I at least had to continue to somewhat function, by cooking supper, and doing a load of laundry and such. If not exactly sane (due to my grief) he at least kept me putting one foot in front of the other. And eventually I discovered I could still walk, after all!

So Ken, just keep putting one foot in front of the other...

As for the kidney failure from AIDS lady, I didn't know she was a trans-sexual.

We had a horrible case up here in (I think, 1997) with a trans-sexual halfway through surgery, when arrested. She was put in the Kingston Pen (for men) and begged and pleaded to be put in a women's prison, and get the remaining part of her surgery etc.

She was treated most unkindly, and outrightly laughed at, at times.

Then she castrated herself in Kingston Pen, and almost died. Luckily a good hearted lawyer took up her case pro bono, and she is now in a women's prison.

Don't worry Ken. People don't need to tell me to speak up. Quite the contrary. They sometimes need to tell me to shut up.

You keep on talking to us, you hear?

Love,
Menolly

KEN-

I AM SO, SO SORRY TO HEAR ABOUT YOUR WIFE. YOU ARE IN MY DAILY PRAYERS. AGAIN THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BEING HERE. YOU HAVE TRULY ADDED SO MUCH TO THIS SITE BY JUST BEING HERE. TAKE CARE

Ken,
I am so sorry, when your loved ones pass away I try to think they are with us in spirit, and are waiting for us on the other side. If you ever need to talk do so, you seem to being very brave. I know what I am saying probably doesnt help that much, your pain will ease but you will never forget.

All the best and sympathies

Caroline

Thank you all for your warm words, they do help.

We were together for 22yrs, & we have 2 grown kids (D-21, S-18), who live on their own. They keep an eye on me, but I have to be there for them too, but I feel paralyzed. I know it gets better with time, but it really hurts now. Comming to this site helps to keep me thinking about other things, it's cathartic for me.

Again thanks for being here, it is good for me. -----Ken

Menolly,

Here is the info on the prisoner who died from aids related kidney failure.





Dear Prison Activists,

Please take a minute to read the information below and send a letter of
protest to Director Ed Alameida demanding an immediate investigation into
Jennnifer Sutton's death -- a sample letter is attached at the end. For
those of you who can, please also fax copies to Senator Richard Polanco of
the Joint Committee on Prison Construction and Operations.

Judy


Another Death at Corcoran state prison:
Jennifer Lynn Sutton, Trangender Prisoner with HIV/hepatitis C

"I have full blown AIDS and can catch anything at any time. I don't belong
in this institution where I can't get any help. We are treated like animals
here and something should be done about it. I hope you can do something
because I am dying and I'm suffering very much and my hands are tied and
there is nothing I can do about it."

This statement was part of a larger article written by Jennifer (aka
Jeffrey) Sutton, a transgender woman prisoner living with HIV and hepatitis
C at Corcoran state prison in California back in 1998. Jennifer died early
Friday morning, May 3, 2002, of kidney failure. She had tried to access
sick call and was feeling ill for a couple of weeks. Corcoran staff did not
even try to diagnose her failing kidneys or her rapid deterioration.
Jennifer finally received attention when she collapsed on Thursday night and
was rushed out to the hospital but it was too late to save her.

After our last visit with Jennifer in October 2001, the HIV/Hepatitis C in
Prison Committee of California Prison Focus wrote to the warden and chief
medical officer about her deteriorating condition. The return letter we
received was typical of the lies consistently received from the Corcoran
prison adminstration. We were assured that Jennifer was receiving excellent
care.

I wonder if Warden George Galaza and Chief Physician Nandan Bhatt think
Jennifer is still getting good care?

Jennifer was not the only prisoner receiving criminally negligent care at
Corcoran. We have always maintained that Corcoran is a punishment prison not
a medical care facilty (despite its sparkling new Acute Care Hospital).

Over the past six months, we have learned of two other prisoners living with
HIV whose kidneys have failed at Corcoran prison. These two prisoners
survived and are currently on kidney dialysis three times a week. We have
heard many alarming reports about the state of medical neglect at Corcoran
prison.

Last month, the only infectious disease doctor was fired. Now the prisoners
in the Chronic Infectious Disease unit cannot even see a specialist for
their condition.

The HIV/Hepatitis C in Prison Committee of California Prison Focus sent a
letter to California Department of Corrections Director Ed Alameida
demanding an immediate investigation into Jennifer's death and into the
criminally negligent medical care faced by all prisoners with serious and
life-threatening illnesses like HIV and hepatitis C. We ask you to send
Director Alameida a letter today supporting our call for an independent
investigation of Jennifer (Jeffrey) Sutton's death.

Feel free to send the letter below or write your own:



Date: __________________

Edward Alameida, Director
California Department of Corrections
P.O. Box 942883
Sacramento, CA 94283
Fax No. (916) 322-2877

Dear Director Alameida:

I have recently learned of the death of Jeffrey (Jennifer) Sutton,
C-01736, a transgender prisoner with HIV and hepatitis C who died suddenly
of kidney failure at California State Prison - Corcoran on May 3, 2002. Two
other prisoners coinfected with HIV and hepatitis C have also suffered
kidney failure at this prison since December 2001. I am very concerned
about the care and treatment of prisoners with serious and life-threatening
diseases like Jeffrey Sutton and demand that you immediately investigate
this prisoner's medical treatment and death.

Corcoran prison is well-known around the country for its brutality
against prisoners. Just a few years ago, prison guards were indicted for
staging gladiator fights during which prisoners were shot and killed in the
exercise yard. I am concerned that prisoners with HIV and hepatitis C will
not be able to access adequate medical treatment at such a punishment prison
as Corcoran.

If Corcoran cannot and will not give these prisoners the care that they
need to survive, I urge you to immediately transfer these prisoners to a
medical facility that will.

Sincerely,


___________________________
Signature


___________________________
Print Name

cc: Senator Richard Polanco, Chair, Joint Committee on Prison
Construction and Operations; fax no. (916) 327-8817

__________________________________________________ __

For more information contact the HIV/Hepatitis C in Prison Committee of
California Prison Focus, 2940 16th Street, Room 307, San Francisco, CA
94103; voice mail/fax (510) 665-1935; website: www.prisons.org/hivin.htm

Ken:

My Blessings and Prayers are all for you guy.... How hard it must be to keep anger from invading your complete mind. You are a very strong and loving individual. Thank you very much for being here on PTO... Your strength and comments will help us all.

My Love
Donna

When my mother and sister were killed, it was very difficult for my father, its only been a week, its very natural to feel bad. Right now you probably feel it will never end. I am shocked that the system failed your wife, and I am sure your angry you have a right to be. Make sure you have lots of people visiting you so you have company. I dont know if I can help but if you need to talk I am here and I am sure the others are. Please look after yourself.

All the best

Caroline

Ken;

Oh thank you for the more complete info on Jennifer.

These NAMES mean the world to me! Knowing a person's name, to me, means I know what their mother called them. They are NOT inamte # *****-***, once you know their name.

I would LOVE to see a website that lists these names, birth and death dates, and CAUSE OF DEATH!

Your wife, who contracted Hepatitis C while in prison, is one whose name should definitely be commemorated on such a list.

Ken, what was her name? Private message me, if you don't want it so public. For now, I'll just say my prayers for "Ken's Wife".

Maybe you and I should volunteer to put together such a list of inmates KILLED by the system, despite never having LEGALLY received the death penalty. (Of course, that's if there is such a thing as a legal death penalty.)

Love,
Menolly

Just try to get names and figures for inmates who die...

The LATEST figure I've been able to get on Canadian prisons is this.

In a 12 month period from 1999 to 2000 :

189 FEDERAL inmates died while in custody.
84 FEDERAL inmates died in halfway houses etc.

That's a total of 273 PER YEAR!

We have about 12,000 federal inmates at any given time.

Someone help me with the math, but doesn't this work out to about 3 PERCENT per year?

And this does not take into account all the PROVINCIAL prisons...

I put it to you that if ANY group in society was losing 3 % of their entire population per year, there'd be such an outcry!

But, since we cannot get these names or any such info... That's why I want to see lists, and names!

Menolly

Menolly, I'm sorry I didn't respond sooner but I was just having a hard time dealing with everything going on.

Her name was Roberta (Bobbie) Alexander. She was 45. We had been together for 22 years. She was a very attractive woman, & Had great inner beauty. Her good looks caused many problems for us, or should I say me. It was always hard trying to deal with guys always hitting on her. I was never concerned about her love for me, as she was head over heals when it came to me, as I was with her.

My mother was a world famouse psychic, & she loved Bobbie so much. Bobbie also had a natural psychic ability, which after studying under my mom, she developed it to be good enough to help many people. When my moms health started to decline my mom refered all her clients to Bobbie. Before becoming a psychic Bobbie was a LVN, & she nursed my mom through all her illnesses, & was by her side, & helped her cross over.

She became my partner in crime because I believe she thought if she was by me she could help protect me, which she did do. No matter how good you are at a crime though, you will get caught, which we did. On her second jail term, she was healthy going in to the jail. She had a medical screening, including a CBC, which came up negative for any type of hepatitas. Yet when she was let out she had it bad. She believed they let her out early because they didn't want to deal with her.

When I would go to jail, she always took care of me in all the ways possible. She was responsible for me straightening out. After spending almost 15yrs going in & out of jail & prison, I just couldn't do it any more, it was killing our relationship, & I loved her too much to let that happen.

I'm sorry for rambling on, I am touched by your interest in knowing who she was. It's the careing & love from people like you & like Bobbie that makes this planet a better place to be.--------Ken

KEN-BOBBIE SOUNDS LIKE SHE WAS SUCH A WONDERFUL WOMAN AND I CAN FEEL THE LOVE BETWEEN YOU IN EVERY WORD YOU WRITE--I KNOW YOU HAVE A LOVE THAT TRANSCENDS TIME HERE ON EARTH AND THAT IS HOW YOU ARE DEALING WITH HER PASSING SO WELL- THNAKS FOR SHARING HER WITH US KEN, AND THANKS FOR BEING SUCH AN IMPORTANT PART OF PTO-

WE LOVE YOU!

Thanks for your kind words Sherri.

I tried to put a picture in this thread but I did something wrong. Any advise? Help. All it does is put up a link to the picture so it can be downloaded. I just wanted to put it on the site.-------Ken

Bobbie Anderson.

Thank you for trusting me with her name. I will cherish it, and remember it.

Since you seem to know so much about psychics and crossing over... It sounds like you are STILL being looked after. Something (Someone?) brought you to this website...

Feel free to "ramble", Ken. I don't consider it so...

(Oh, and thanks for the "Report on Prisons" you sent me via email. I couldn't find it anywhere!)

Menolly

ken-to post a picture you go to post a reply and then go to the bottom where it says attach file (under options)-broswe for the photo, attach it and voila-

even i did it, so it can't be that tricky :)

Here is a picture of me & Bobbie.

This is all it will let me do. If you click on the link & just hit open & not save you can view the picture. Unless someone can give me an idea as to what I'm doing wrong.-----Ken

HI KEN-I MUST HAVE TOLD YOU WRONG-IT'S BEEN AWHILE SINCE I POSTED A PIC AND I THOUGHT I REMEMBERED HOW BUT THE PIC SHOULD HAVE SHOWN UP IN THE POSTWITHOUT HAVING TO DOWNLOAD EACH TIME IT IS VIEWED-SORRY! IF YOU EMAIL FED-X HE WILL TELL YOU THE RIGHT WAY TO GET IT ON THERE

ANYWAY, I DID SEE THE PIC AND IT IS VERY NICE-YOU LOOK VERY HAPPY AND VERY MUCH IN LOVE-WAS IT MADE THIS PAST CHRISTMAS?

KEN:HERE ARE SOME DIRECTIONS TO POST PICS FROM THE SITE THAT FED-X PUT UP


The administrator may allow you to use the attachment feature of this board, which gives you the ability to attach files of certain types to your posts. This could be an image, a text document, a zip file etc. There will be a limit to the file size of any attachments you make, as the board should not be used as an extension of your hard disk!
To attach a file to a new post, simply click the [Browse] button at the bottom of the post composition page, and locate the file that you want to attach from your local hard drive.
Only certain types of files may be attached: these are the valid file extensions for files to be attached to this board: gif jpg png txt zip bmp jpeg.
After posting, the attachment will show up in the body of your message. To view the contents of the attachment (if it is not already displayed) simply click the filename link that appears next to the attachment icon .



THE ONES I ATTACHED SHOWED UP AUTOMATICALLY IN THE POST- YOU WILL HAVE TO CHECK WITH DAVID AS TO WHAT DETERMINES IF THEY SHOW UP IN THE BODY OF THE POST OR IF THEY SHOW AS A LINK TO DOWNLOAD

SORRY I COULD NOT BE MORE HELP

Sherri thanks for the info. I think you explained it right I must be doing something wrong, or something is messed up on my end. It's not important. I'll get it figured out one of these days. Thanks for taking the time to help. I tried to delete the post but it wont let me. It says too much time has gone by.------Ken

Ken, I can't "see (open) the picture. I get some message about "plug-ins" and I'm such a computer twit...

I'd love to see the photo. Can you email it? (Will I be able to open it then? Hmmm...)

Menolly

KEN:

I CAN SEE THE PICTURE.... THIS IS A GOOD ONE.... VERY PRETTY LADY YOU HAVE THERE..... MAY GOD BLESS AND KEEP YOU.

MY LOVE
DONNA

Ken;

I got the email.

She looks very kind and very intelligent! Lots of loving in that photo!

I have to say though, I didn't picture you as a blonde longhair... I pictured a red-haired Irishman with a mess o'curls!

Menolly

Donna, Thanks for your kind words. Yes she was a beautiful woman, better looking with long hair though. She cut it short while I was locked up. That picture was taken the day after I got out, dec, 8 1997. I have since added to my tattoos & she picked up a couple too.

Menolly, Looks can be deceiving, LOL. She was kind & very intelligent, but I've seen that woman become extreamly violent. Her cousin calls her aunt jui jitsu. She studied savat (french kick boxing) cause it uses your legs (the strongest muscle in your body), It use to piss her off when she would come at me & couldn't touch me (I studied kung-fu for 6 years) & I would laugh at her. She has taken out her share of guys in bars that wouldn't leave her alone. My mom's ex husband was a blak belt in karate (his blak belt certificate was signed by Chuck Norris) & he took my son to Chuck Norris's old school now run by Chuck Norris's cousin. He studied there for 8 years from 6 yrs old till he was 14.

Yea, I got blonde hair & blue eyes, & so did bobbie. I'm 3/4 Irish & 1/4 scotish. My parents were both irish, my dads parents were both irish, my moms dad was irish & her mom was scotish. Both my kids are blonde & blue too. We are all tall & thin, well I use to be thin. I'm 200# now but I'm 6'2" so I'm not fat but I'm getting big, LOL. Bobbie was scandinavian although with her violent streak I swear she must have had some german, or irish in her. Well enough of my ramblings thanks for your thoughs.-------Ken

Wow! I guess looks are deceiving...

I haven't got a violent bone or cell in my entire body. I'm one of those crazy people who BLOWS gently bring them outside where they'll have a chance to live.

You probably don't even wanna hear all my nationalities...

BUT

My Mom was Algonquin (Canadian Native) and Scottish (McLaren clan). I even have an ancestor who was murdered by Rob Roy (McGregor)'s son Robin! (They're buried side by side in the graveyard in Balquiddar, Scotland! Ironic, eh?)

My son's father was Lebanese and French... You can't imagine the "tall dark and handsome" man that whole combo created!

I'm tiny (5 foot 2, 110 lbs) but my son is a 6 foot 3, 260 lb MONSTER! Hard to believe at times that I created him! (His dad was 6 foot 7!) He pats me on the head and calls me "My little mummy". (I HATE THAT!)

You really like that word "rambling" eh?

"Lord I was born a ramblin' man...
Tryin' to make a livin' and
Doin' the best I can..."

HAHAHAHAHA
Menolly

Oh my God. What a typo.

Supposed to say

..."who BLOWS GENTLY on mosquitoes who are on my arm, and I capture spiders and bugs in my house to bring them outside..."

Hmmm, wonder what you all THOUGHT I meant...

HAHAHAHAHAHA...

Menolly

THANKS FOR THE CLARIFICATION MEMOLLY

hehehehehe sherri...

*blush*

aww a animal lover menolly :) I am vegetarian, I adore animals, not so good with bugs especially spiders, I cant even look at them , at home I usually have to scream to my aunt or whoever is in and they take them outside.

Hey How about sharing where you got info on guard who did 16 years for rape and attempted murder in AL please.

Pam; I'll try to find it again.

I am sure that it was in a newsletter that goes out daily to Prison Reform groups. I'll try to look it up.

What exactly do you want to know. His name? The weblink?

Menolly

Feb. 15, 2003

Ken and I are just sitting here going over how we met.

This whole conversation occured only 28 HOURS after we met!

Yeah, we got pretty intense, right from the git-go! So, we decided to revive the thread.

Enjoy the trip down memory lane, folks. We sure did!

All Our Love,
Ken and Menolly

omg, your right, loks can be decieving. that is you? wow. boy did i have thew wrong view of what you look like. :) it was a good one though. :) nice pic Ken.,

I had to read this thread 2 times to fully grasp what I was reading. The range of emotions that I felt was incredible -- disgust and anger at the horrible system, sadness for the victims, total heart wrenching sadness and lonliness for Ken realizing that Bobbie died a week earlier, strength from Menolly's determination and fiestiness, compassion from everyone, and (oh my gosh) the warm connection I felt between Menolly and Ken.

Thank you for pulling this thread back up. I have so many things in my life to be thankful for and yet I manage to complain about the tiniest things sometimes. Threads like this one make me see the big picture of life and put my "little" problems in perspective.

We all need to fight for everyone's right to be treated with human compassion. No one ever knows when they may be on the receiving end of this treatment.

Ken: What a strong man you must be. Bobbie sounded like a beautiful person. She left you with a loving heart to be able to be able to love again.

Menolly and Ken: What a wonderful documentation of your first days "together". I can't think of a better way to start off a lifetime together - the love of your friendship blossomed into something so beautiful.

Kim

...here's that picture, I think it became a "linked to" image because it was in bmp form, sometimes it does that. Ken, pictures can be saved as a few different file types, the most common are bmp or jpeg(jpg). If you're running windows you can convert pictures with the MSPaint program...it should be found if you hit your start button, scroll up to program files, scroll up to accessories and look for "paint" or "mspaint". Open up that program and then you can open a picture, if it's a bmp and you want to convert it to jpg just hit "save as..." from the file menu, give it a name, then you'll see below the name "file type"...use the little arrow to save it as a jpg, that way it'll load within your post.

Oh Lulu; You can say it! He is GORGEOUS!!!

But what I saw when I first saw this photo, was not Ken's looks, that I saw! It was how secure and content Bobbie looked in his arms! And this after about 20 years of marriage!

I printed this photo off and showed it to the menopausal girls at my workplace last July, and they all just breathlessly slid off their chairs, saying "YOU WRITE TO THIS GUY? Every day? My God, why aren't you grabbing him!"

I was absolutely perplexed, because I only saw him as MY DEAR FRIEND who was going through incredible pain! And i saw MY ROLE in his life only as his support system, when life made him wobble a little.

Lulu, amazingly, that hasn't really changed, has it?

What astounds the two of us is the DEPTHS and RANGE of this whole conversation, considering it was our FIRST conversation! This "CONNECTION" surprised the heck out of BOTH of us for a very LONG time!

Now we kind of just BASK in it!

So, go ahead girls. Tell him HE IS BEAUTIFUL! I am NOT a jealous woman. In fact, I'll just sit back and GLOW, because he's chosen PLAIN OLD ME! Ack! How fortunate (and delerious) can Ibecome???

All My Love,
Menolly

P.S: Am I allowed to GLOAT?

KIMLA;

It is SOO GOOD to hear that you felt all of that too! For the longest time, I thought I was imagining it all!

Yes, Ken and I ARE deeply committed to the fight against injustice! And we are strong, feisty and compassionate!

And we do fill each other up, and eradicate each other's loneliness!

And he and I have no problems at all with the deep love each of us STILL feels for our spouses that we lost. Bobbie SHAPED Ken into the wonderful mand that he is. And my Gerard SHAPED me into who I am!

When I met his two children yesterday, this is what made them realize I was no threat! I was NOT replacing thier Mother! I am just keeping the man she turned him into, as the beautiful soul that he is! You guys should have seen the depth and NUMBER of heartfelt hugs that were exchanged in this house yesterday, when we told his kids of his Hep C diagnosis! They are NOT AFRIAD!

You would have wept WITH JOY!

All My Love,
Menolly

TOE; thank you, sweetie! Too bad it can't be made bigger. But, then, maybe I don't want it any more "obvious".

Ah, who am I trying to LIE to!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Wait til you guys see how "sparrow brown and boring" I am!

All My Love,
Menolly

ok, you gave me permission. :) Ken you little hunk- roo you. :)
You two make one hell of a couple. :)
you just keep gloating Menolly. :) we can take it,hehehe

Toe can make it bigger. cant ya toe? :)

MENOLLY, MY SON IS IN A TEXAS PRISON, HE WAS EXPOSED TO FORMALDEHYDE IN THE GRAMENT FACTORY WERE THEY MAKE THE UNIFORMS FOR THE PRISON GUARDS, THE ASSISTANCE WARDEN REFUSED MY REQUEST TO REMOVE HIM FROM THE FACTORY UNTIL HE COULD SEE A DOCTOR, SO I FAXED HIM A LETTER TO CONFIRM OUR PHONE CONVERSATION WHERE HE HAD REFUSED MY REQUEST. ABOUT 10 MIN. LATER HE PHONED ME BACK AND SAID HE WAS TAKING MY SON OUT OF THE FACTORY DUE TO HIS ALLERGIES LISTED ON HIS MEDICAL RECORDS AND HE SAID WHAT EVER YOU WAS TALKING ABOUT THAT HE WAS EXPOSED TO, HE DID NOT EVEN KNOW WHAT FORMALDEHYDE WAS ABOUT. I CALLED THE DIRECTOR OF TEXAS PRISONS, THEY REFERRED ME TO AN OFFICE CALLED PROFFESSIONAL STANDARDS OFFICE, THIS OFFICE IS OVER EVERY TEXAS PRISON UNIT PRETAINING TO ANY MEDICAL PROBLEMS, THEY CALLED ME IN TWO DAYS AND THE INVESTIGATOR OVER MY SONS CASE SAID SHE WOULD BE GOING TO THE UNIT AND INVESTIGATE THIS PROBLEM, AND WOULD GET BACK WITH ME WITH HER RESULTS, I TOLD HER THE ASSISST. WARDEN WAS VERY RUDE AND UNPROFFESSIONAL TO ME, SHE SAID FILE A COMPLAINT ON HIM, SHE TOLD ME WHO TO SEND MY COMPLAINT TO. NOW IF I HAD NOT TAKEN THE STEPS TO SPEAK UP FOR MY SONS RIGHTS, NO TELLING WHAT MIGHT HAVE HAPPENED TO MY SONS HEALTH. DO YOU HAVE ANYTHING LIKE THIS WHERE YOU ARE? MAYBE YOU COULD CHECK INTO IT, YES A LOT OF THEM DIE WITHOUT ANYONE KNOWING THE CAUSE, BUT THE PEOPLE AND THE FAMILIES NEED TO START SPEAKING UP FOR THEIR LOVED ONES LOCKED UP. FAMILIES HAVE THAT RIGHT IN TEXAS. AT LEAST I TAKE ADVANTAGE OF MY RIGHTS AND PROTECT MY SONS RIGHTS WHILE HE IS LOCKED UP. THE WARDEN, OVER THE WHOLE PRISON TOLD ME IN ONE OF OUR TALKS, THAT WE NEEDED MORE MOMS LIKE ME. THE FAMILIES NEED TO GET MORE INVOLVED WITH WHAT GOES ON WITH THEIR LOVED ONES IN PRISON AND KEEP TABS ON THEM. SO GOOD LUCK WITH YOUR SITUATION AND JUST PUT IT IN THE NEWS PAPER WHEN YOU HEAR OF SOMETHING LIKE THAT HAPPENING, NEED TO WORD IT JUST RIGHT BUT LET THE PUBLIC KNOW WHAT IS GOING ON WHERE YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT. THE FREEDOM OF SPEECH, I THINK WE STILL HAVE THAT, I AM NOT SURE THESE DAYS BUT I USE MINE. GOD BLESS YOU AND ALL INMATES AND MAY GOD WATCH OVER THEM.

Fed-X:

You asked to see this thread...


All Our Love,
Menolly and Ken.

Irist, I was exposed to TB in the county jail. They were throwing out their bags of infectious waste clothes in the laundry, & we had no warning about it. ----------------Ken

Ken, that is awful. TB can be cured, right? I thinking that it can, but, please refreash my memory.

Lulu,

He's a CARRIER for life.

This might be an additional concern for getting Ken treatment. I'm still researching this also!

Add in high blood pressure, cholesterol...

It'll be a juggling act, to be sure!

This doing contaminated laundry without even GLOVES, is SOOO APPALLING to me! Since I work in the medical field, I KNOW how important protection is! For all we know, this is where he got his Hep also. But we'll never know!

All My Love,
Menolly

P.S: Look at the TITLE of this post again, Lulu!

Can you see why Ken and I saw eye to eye on these issues, from the first day we met?

All My Love,
Menolly