You know what's weird about loving an addict, is you feel so damn guilty about making the right choices. And do you know why we feel so guilty, because it's what we haven't done before.

We have let them manipulate us. We've let them steal from us. We've let them put us into debt. We've given them 3rd and 4th chances. We've let them cheat on us. We've put our lives aside trying to save their lives. We've lost who we are for them.

So when we finally put our foots down, we feel guilty. Not because we don't deserve to put our foots down, but because we feel as if we're betraying them. But all along we have been betraying ourselves for them.

It's weird how we can care for everyone else, but the moment we start caring for ourselves we feel guilty.

Just some thoughts

You have described 'co-dependency'. The weird part is when you actually start realizing that our behaviour is not normal. That is a good thing to realize. There is often more than just the addict who is sick, more than not there is a loved one who is sick with co-dependency. We allow ourselves to get sick with it and the addict needs us to be sick with it in order to manipulate us.

p.s. I think your siggy says it all :)

Witchlinblue,

You are so right on this one. Co-dependency is as much of an addiction as the drugs our partners use. They say the first sign is recognizing any addiction. We must first heal ourselves in order to help them heal themselves.

Thanks on the siggy :)

Amen to both of you!!! Being a co-dependant is sometimes very hard to see for those of us who are one... ( it is a way of life for many, until they realize what is going on) but it is so true that it is an addiction as well. When we do "wake up", we can truly begin to help our loved ones the right way after we understand and help ourselves!

Since we're on the subject of co-dependency which I am definitely. Did you know there is a whole 12 step program for co-dependency. My therapist told me about it and I google and found this great site.

http://www.coda.org/codameet.html

Hope this helps any one.

Loving the addict is hard but loving yourself is harder to do..

It's because time and time again we hear, "It's a disease" and you wouldn't abandon him if he had cancer would you? That's what makes me feel guilty and makes me stay.

Oh you are so right about the 'guilt disease' blurb. Its a great trap for anyone with a good heart. However what we all have to keep in mind is there is a big difference between someone having a disease like cancer and a disease like addiction. Often with many diseases our lives can be in the hands of the medical profession. With addiction its the addict who makes the steps towards 'remission' !!
I have felt the guilt of the 'disease' card, and I should know better since Ive battled and won the same 'disease' and found my own remission, though not a cure.
That guilt is an easy trap to get into but all our talking about it is what will give us all strength and knowledge to make the right decisions. Im so glad that so many of us can talk so freely about our fears, the guilt, and the heartbreak as well as exchanging experiences. It will give us all strength and some of the support we need. Thank God for PTO and the members who share all of these feelings. Its what keeps many from feeling alone in this forum. GROUP HUG !!!!!!!!!

ACK I HATE THAT WORD, co dependecy thats just nassy LOL sorry had to vent!

I have been that way for years but come to realize that I can do things and not feel guilty, etc. and I love myself more when my addict actually says damn its about time, even though she tried to get me to do this and that a week before, its the tough love co dependcy issue.

Have any of you ever felt like no matter what they do or what they say, you just can't see yourself without them in your life somehow?

OMG, CAN A SISTER GET AN "AMEN?" I TOTALLY FEEL YOU ON THIS ONE. MY BOYFRIEND IS IN JAIL NOW & JUST MIGHT BE GOING UP THE ROAD (TO PRISON) (FOR A VERY LONG TIME) FOR A WARRENT THAT WAS TAKEN PLACE YEARS AGO (BACK WHEN HE WAS 18-- HE IS 26 NOW... YOU DO THE MATH). I AM SCARED TO DEATH THAT HE WILL END UP THERE. I HAVE HEARD WHAT PRISON IS LIKE & HOW THEY TREAT YOU THERE. I AM WORRIED THAT IF HE ENDS UP THERE, THAT HE WILL END UP BEING "SOMEONE'S BITCH" (GETTING RAPED, IN OTHER WORDS)--- AND GUYS, THIS IS NOT FUNNY. HE IS A DRUG ADDICT AND WAS BEFORE WE EVEN MET. FUNNY THING IS, WE WERE BOTH GETTING HIGH (ON ECSTASY) THE NIGHT WE MET. THEN WE FELL IN LOVE & WE HAVE BEEN TOGETHER EVER SINCE. I CAN'T SAY I BLAME HIM FOR MY DRUG USE. HE DID NOT FORCE THE DRUGS ON ME-- I CHOSE TO DO THEM. I WAS JUST AS GUILTY AS HE WAS. WE GOT HOOKED (REAL BAD) ON COCAINE. IT JUST GOT WORSE, TO WHERE HE WAS PAWNING EVERY LITTLE THING WE HAD AND DID I TRY TO STOP HIM? NO. I LET HIM DO IT. I DID NOT PREVENT IT. HE EVEN PAWNED SOME OF MY STUFF. DID I YELL AT HIM AND SAY, "ARE YOU CRAZY? I'M NOT GONNA LET YOU PAWN MY CAMERA?" NO. I WANTED MY FIX, AS WELL, SO YEAH, I LET HIM DO IT. I LET HIM TALK TO ME & CALL ME ALL KIND OF NAMES. I TOOK IT & WHEN HE APOLOGISED, I ACCEPTED HIS APOLOGY. WHEN HE WENT OFF WITH HIS FRIENDS AND WOULD COME BACK HOME AT LATE HOURS, DID I CONFRONT HIM? SOMETIMES, YES, BUT HE DIDN'T CHANGE IT. WHEN HE CHEATED ON ME, DID I HAVE MY STUFF PACKED WHEN HE ARRIVED? NO. I TOOK HIM BACK AND GAVE HIM ANOTHER CHANCE. I LET HIM CONTROL ME. I LET HIM MANIPULATE ME... LIE TO ME, MAKE FUN OF ME, TALK BAD ABOUT ME TO OTHERS, ETC. WHEN YOU LOVE AN ADDICT, YOU WILL DO ANYTHING FOR HIM OR HER, JUST TO MAKE THEM HAPPY. SO, READING YOUR POST ALMOST BROUGHT TEARS TO MY EYES B/C I REALIZED THAT THERE ARE OTHERS OUT THERE WHO FEEL WHAT I FEEL & WHO DESERVE A LOT BETTER.

Hightek669,

Oh I can definitely relate, yesterday I was in a store he worked at three years ago. One of the managers asked if I had seen or heard from him. When I told him where he was, she asked if I was his room mate. When I told her at the time I was his girlfriend, she had that stupid shock look on her face. I'm still finding things out and I still don't know where to stand with him.

As with any disease, we all must take the necessary steps to either heal ourselves or give up. Unfortunately many addicts just give up. It's not that their hearts aren't ready, it's the mind. They see no other way to numb the pain or to get that great feeling.

I still feel guilty after 3 years of dealing with his disease. But like you when I stand up to him, he does say it's about time. Once when he was in DOC last year he made a list of things pros and cons on me. The first thing was I give into him, no matter what, just to make him happy. It's that damn nuturing and guilt in me.

And I am very grateful I found PTO. Without you guys I would have been so lost!!!

Guilt is a common tool used by others to obtain their own desires. To learn to distinguish the truth of guilt will give you a freedom to act upon your own behalf.

False guilt continues an enabling pattern and can convince you in various ways, somehow, YOU are responsible for an addict’s behavior. False guilt accuses: You weren't strong enough or You were too strong, You weren't loving enough or You were too loving, You allowed or You didn't allow. The accusations are never-ending.

False guilt receives strength from the fact you are searching for a rational, logical explanation to the irrational, illogical behavior of a drug addict.

The two forms of guilt: Genuine guilt--that is when we violate man's law or one's moral belief. False guilt comes from misconceptions of feelings, emotions that are totally messed up or illogical, and causes a person to actually feel guilty without committing any type of violation.

The addict is a master manipulator of false guilt. His unfounded accusations suggest your guilt. A blameless addict holds the right to continue his drug use. He is always able and willing to lay blame on somebody else. Sadly, many pick up that burden because he won't. The victim then feels a need to carry that weight or burden. This false guilt then becomes an overwhelming feeling that has no definable reason. This pressing sense of guilt can slowly destroy your well being.

Realize false guilt is a method of deception and can keep us from taking a stand to better our life. Freedom of false guilt begins with TRUST. We must learn to trust ourselves and to the trust the truth.

False guilt will produce fleeting unfounded, illogical feelings of self-blame for another's actions.

Actual or true guilt is obvious and hard to run from. We are not in a drug induced state of mind, so we know when we are guilty. With all my heart, I believe we have the ability to know and understand without a doubt when we do something wrong.

Freeing yourself from deceptive false guilt is an enlightening experience. It is necessary to rid yourself of this type of guilt to make good, sound decisions for a better life. We must learn to trust ourselves.

You know what's weird about loving an addict, is you feel so damn guilty about making the right choices. And do you know why we feel so guilty, because it's what we haven't done before.

We have let them manipulate us. We've let them steal from us. We've let them put us into debt. We've given them 3rd and 4th chances. We've let them cheat on us. We've put our lives aside trying to save their lives. We've lost who we are for them.

So when we finally put our foots down, we feel guilty. Not because we don't deserve to put our foots down, but because we feel as if we're betraying them. But all along we have been betraying ourselves for them.

It's weird how we can care for everyone else, but the moment we start caring for ourselves we feel guilty.

Just some thoughts

You know what you said is so true. I dont want to do this anymore. I just dont know how to do anything else anymore. Its killing me.

I feel guilt every damn day for getting mad at her that day and telling her to leave me alone and not call me, if I wouldn't have done that she wouldn't be in jail in the first damn place. She tells me its not my fault and to stop feeling guilty but deep down inside I truly regret doing that, she would have never been beaten (broken ribs,etc) by her ex boyfriend and sure as hell not gang raped by him and his sorry ass friends. What I would give to take it back.

Kellil,

I know how you feel. My best advice is to take baby steps. It seems we loose ourselves in caring for them. I actually had to sit down and take a couple of days last month and figure I what I did before he came along. I even surprise myself with what I came up with. Think of everything you use to enjoy, mine were reading, raquetball, riding bikes with my girls and just hanging out with my kids.

Start off small. But hang in there and if you need anything pm me.

I feel guilt every damn day for getting mad at her that day and telling her to leave me alone and not call me, if I wouldn't have done that she wouldn't be in jail in the first damn place. She tells me its not my fault and to stop feeling guilty but deep down inside I truly regret doing that, she would have never been beaten (broken ribs,etc) by her ex boyfriend and sure as hell not gang raped by him and his sorry ass friends. What I would give to take it back.

You can not feel guilty for this one. She put herself in that situation. She understood your rules and choose her addiction over you. It was her decision. Granted the outcome was not what either of you would wish on your worse enemy. But there is some type of risk, everytime an addict goes to get their fix. I'm so sorry her ex-boyfriend did those things to her and I hope she is pressing charges against them. But you DID NOT do this to her. You were only looking after your best interest "YOU". I know how hard it is to put your foot down and you should be proud of yourself for finding the courage to speak up. Yes you can feel remorse for what happen to her, but please do not feel as if you did this to her, and by feeling guilty that is what you are doing.

If you need anything, please do not hesitate to pm, write me or just ask!

Do we continue to support them and pick up the pieces everytime they realize they have done wrong....which is usually when they are in JAIL...then when they get out........... they seem to forget about stayig sober for months at a time and all the promises and hopes they had for themselves while they were "Locked Up"
When should enough be enough?
When do they actually get clean. I feel like if i give up now, what if he really means it this time. He has no family, burned most of his bridges with others. Why should i keep supporting him after all the LIES, and horrible things that he has done? Keep thinking and praying he will get back to who i loved, does that ever happen though? I have seen him self destruct over four years and it get worse with each passing year and incarceration. He is lucky to be alive honestly.

Thoughts anyone? :rolleyes:

BBG I know I can't feel guilty and you are right, she even told me this but sheesh deep down it hurts ya know.

Honestly I dont know if they ever get clean I mean they can be sober for years but you can't take away the urges and wants for the drug/booze.

Do we continue to support them and pick up the pieces everytime they realize they have done wrong....which is usually when they are in JAIL...then when they get out........... they seem to forget about stayig sober for months at a time and all the promises and hopes they had for themselves while they were "Locked Up"
When should enough be enough?
When do they actually get clean. I feel like if i give up now, what if he really means it this time. He has no family, burned most of his bridges with others. Why should i keep supporting him after all the LIES, and horrible things that he has done? Keep thinking and praying he will get back to who i loved, does that ever happen though? I have seen him self destruct over four years and it get worse with each passing year and incarceration. He is lucky to be alive honestly.

Thoughts anyone? :rolleyes:




We do it until we finally figure out that WE Cant SAVE Them but We can SAVE ourselfs!! Sometimes they never get back to the person that we loved at one point. Are you sure that you what you feel is Love and not Pity for him cause everyone turned their back on him. I wish you the best. I have not been with my ex in like 6 years but when it was first over if felt like the world had been lifted off my shoulders but I did find myself with someone alot like my ex it took a couple years to get it right... leaving him.. I wish you the best..

Do we continue to support them and pick up the pieces everytime they realize they have done wrong....which is usually when they are in JAIL...then when they get out........... they seem to forget about stayig sober for months at a time and all the promises and hopes they had for themselves while they were "Locked Up"
When should enough be enough?
When do they actually get clean. I feel like if i give up now, what if he really means it this time. He has no family, burned most of his bridges with others. Why should i keep supporting him after all the LIES, and horrible things that he has done? Keep thinking and praying he will get back to who i loved, does that ever happen though? I have seen him self destruct over four years and it get worse with each passing year and incarceration. He is lucky to be alive honestly.

Thoughts anyone? :rolleyes:

I don't know when we give up. I think just like them we all have our "Rock Bottom". I'm probably near mine. Like you I have been in this a little over 3 years. And every letter, visit or phone call from him. I'm right there wanting to believe so bad in someone who has disappointed me time and time again. Also like you he has no one. My therapist always ask me "Is this your fault, he has no one". The answer is always a simple one, "NO", it's not my fault, it's not your fault. It's their fault for all their lies and conning, no one wants to be around them.

So when do we hit rock bottom, I don't know.

BBG I know I can't feel guilty and you are right, she even told me this but sheesh deep down it hurts ya know.

Honestly I dont know if they ever get clean I mean they can be sober for years but you can't take away the urges and wants for the drug/booze.

Please hang in there. I know it hurts deep down and everytime you feel that, remember the worst didn't happen and you're there now.

I remember when he use to go out. Every single time he would get pulled over or stopped by the police, I would wake up screaming his name at the same moment. He would come home and before he'd even get in the door, I would ask if he was okay and what happened. He would stand there in shock looking at me. Then he would tell me. I was able to save him from alot of things, the one thing we can't save them from or prevent them from is themselves. I think it's the one thing we really want to do and we can't and that's why we feel guilty. It's always, if we had or maybe we didn't. I'm learning to change that to if they had or if they didn't. And maybe that's the attitude we need to get.

I'm always here.

hi i have a son which is father billy is in hagerstown maryland jail which he has put us though everything you name it he has done know as afather he wants to try to do right so i am so confused do or don't i let him back in drugs i don't want around the kids so really how do you move on or do u wait for him

I have spent so many years picking up the peices for Jeffrey everytime he falls I really dont know how to do anything else. I can say the words "I cant save him" but to feel that, to know that. Thats something I dont know how to do. It is so hard because he would be the perfect man for me without the drugs. And he was out, clean and living with me building a life for a year this time. Thats what makes it so hard. With his prison time, he was actually clean for 3 years this time so WTF????????

I know the feeling, when they are clean and sober.... no drugs they start to go back to that person you fell in love with and you start having all kinds of HOPE again that you may be able to have REAL life with them. I hate that part because i always get so excited and then it doens't happen and i say to myself "why did i beleive it again?" I could have other people in my life that would treat me and my son they way we deserve to be treated...but do i love them like i love the other? NOPE, will i ever be able to move on with out him and be HAPPY or will i always go through the motions thinking to myself "I wish i was with charles?"
It's all so damn frustrating!!! Maybe i am sacred to actually have REAL HONEST GOODNESS around me...i think deep down inside i may think i don't deserve it...so i hold onto something that is not definite!!! I am so rambling now so i will go...had to get it out!
SO LOVE THIS PLACE!!! THANKS FOR READING!!

I truly understand what you mean. The problem is, they have to want to HELP themselves, before any changes can happen. No matter how much we love them, loving them cannot change them :( Years and years I watched my now husband 'escape' by using alcohol and drugs ( using drugs in my presence or home was not done, had to put my foot down there, for my son's sake) and he finally hit HIS rock bottom...currently serving a life sentence for an incident that occurred during a struggle when he and the other party were both drinking. He and I were apart at that time, but I had never stopped loving him. Looking back, I should have tried to get him into rehab, instead of walking away at all; it may have saved him from what he is facing now. One of the best ways to stop the addictive behavior is for them to totally drop all current acquaintances, avoid old neighborhoods, anything and everything concerning their addiction. You may want to attend some AA meetings or NA meetings yourselves, it can help you with codependency as well as give you some extra knowledge. Hugs!

I picked up the pieces for him so many times as well. His parents have too. I am his last sense of hope for a normal life. But does that give him the right to destroy not only his life as well as my children and mine. I used think this was all because I wasn't strong enough to make him see how good life could really be. I have since come to the conclusion, addicts are very selfish people. They will con, blame and point the finger at anyone just so they can get their next fix. This is where the guilt comes in at least for me.

How many times do we take them back, knowing it won't last long? I can't answer that for anyone, not even myself. We all have different thresholds. We have different wants and needs. Some of us are stronger than others.

It's weird loving an addict. You can't explain any of the things we do to just the average person, they will never understand. You can logic it out in your mind all the time, but when you tell someone else they look at you as if you have lost your mind.

I have found to love an addict, you must first and foremost trust your heart and listen to your gut instincts. If it's not adding up, then it never will. Second, you have to let them fall. And not just a little all the way. Mine changes his wants everytime I see him now. I don't let him know that after every visit gets me crying, because I can hear beyond the BS lies and stories. Do I think he has hit rock bottom, not yet. Will he ever, only time will tell. Have I moved on, not yet, but the thought has crossed my mind a thousand times. Why haven't I because I keep remembering the good side of him. The side that makes me laugh and gives me dimples in my knees. The side that picks me up and swings me around in the world largest hug. The side that was always there when I got home from work and no matter what day he had took 20 minutes to find out how my day was. The one who taught my daughter her multiplication table, by spending 2hrs for 2 months sitting down with her. The one who I can beat at gin rummy everytime.

The side that make me run, the feigning, the conning, the stolen stuff from my house, the one who took my car and totalled it. and on and on.. is the one I can't ever live with again.

So how do we choose, I don't have a clue, but I know I can't fix him. Only he can fix him. Only he can want to be fix and until then it's like using school glue on a piece of porcelin that really needs super glue, it will stay fix for a bit but will eventually break again.

Everything that is posted is so true...it's scarey. My family and friends think i am crazy for not moving on....and wonder what in the hell is wrong with me being in love with someone who has so very much BAGGAGE. As we all have our own baggage and demons. It is so hard to explain to people and i have got to the point where i don't even talk about it anymore to anyone.... because they don't understand and try to judge and i can't explain it in a way to make them understand. Sometimes i don't even understand it myself. All i know is what i feel deep in my soul and that is what i go with....i take it day by day...like he does i suppose. I am so gratefull i found this place and forum to read others stories and share my own. However, reading most of the stories .....we all sound alike and i get discouraged becasue it's like there is no hope for them until THEY decide to change.
HUGS TO YOU ALL !!!!

I have been battling with mine for 8 years (4.5 in prison where we met and 3 while he has been out). We were dating when he started to go nuts and he left me to protect me from his ways. He is married now and has a small child, but he always calls me when he needs me. I have tried to go on with my life and have almost succeeded, but just when I do he calls and I let him vent and we talk for a while then he stops. Recently he came running to me and really needed my help, I helped him and for the first time in 8 years we lived together. He drained me and used my resources to get him out of trouble, I thought I could help him. I think he realized his lies were fixing to catch up with him so he left, and I let him. That was 2 weeks ago, he went back to his wife, and just 2 days ago he relapsed and wanted to come back to me. I have not even recovered from 2 weeks of him being gone. I feel so bad that I cannot go and bring him back, but if I do I lose everything that I have been fighting so hard to keep in check. I really think he has a problem, mentally, and I want him in my life, but I do not think that now is a good time. Plus I dislike his wife, she is an enabler, and she will do anything to keep us apart. Not that I am into being a homewrecker, but if he needs me I will always be here for him.

He went to one of his court hearing this morning and I couldn't make again. I feel so bad. The car is in the shop and funds are low so we haven't had any communications except for when I go up there to visit once a week. I feel so bad about not being there for me. I have to bring up that little voice in my head that says how many times did you need him and he wasn't there for you. Again the selfish addict doesn't care how many times they break your heart. As along as their needs are fixed.

So what to do. I think that's one of the great mysteries of life.

I'm trying to move on and like babyincc, everytime I think I can I get a card or letter or message passed through the lines of a mom of a fellow immate and I loose my heart to him all over again.

I cannot believe what I have read here and how true it all is! The GUILT card is a powerful trump card that is used and that "belief" that they are a good person without the addiction is a hard one to walk away from. I had to learn the hard way that another person's bad decisions don't have to effect me. I am the victim of a crime that involved an addict who had relapsed. I tried to stand by him but as someone mentioned, how many times do they have to hock your things, take your money, trade your car for drugs? I kept telling myself that it was the addiction and not him.....talk about denial! It allowed me to rationalize why I was with him even though I knew it was not healthy for me. In the end, everything I did for him backfired and he tried to kill me. Even then he played the addict card with guilt but luckily as he knocked me around, he knocked some sense in me so I knew to get out. Loving an addict is not something people choose to do at first. But after a while you can begin to see the signs of people that are good to be around and those that aren't and if you are smart you start to avoid those that will do you harm and surround yourself with positive people. I hope that everyone here that loves an addict....may you continue to have open hearts but may you always love yourself so as not to sacrifice yourself for another!

Sunshine001,

I am so sorry for all that you have gone through. And I hear what you say. I have been fortunate enough not to have the physical abuse as part of our equation, and maybe that's another reason I use to logic it out. Because he has never been physical with me. But the mental and emotional abuse is the same.

Your right as not to sacrifice yourself for another. Sad thing though is that many of us already have or we would not be here today.

It took me 3 yrs and alot of remembering of what I liked to do. I actually had to think about what I did before he came along. My life had become his. So sad. But stepping back and hearing from other here on PTO and the help of a very good therapist has made me wake up.

Again, do I still love him. I will always love him!!!!

Sunshine001,

I am so sorry for all that you have gone through. And I hear what you say. I have been fortunate enough not to have the physical abuse as part of our equation, and maybe that's another reason I use to logic it out. Because he has never been physical with me. But the mental and emotional abuse is the same.

Your right as not to sacrifice yourself for another. Sad thing though is that many of us already have or we would not be here today.

It took me 3 yrs and alot of remembering of what I liked to do. I actually had to think about what I did before he came along. My life had become his. So sad. But stepping back and hearing from other here on PTO and the help of a very good therapist has made me wake up.

Again, do I still love him. I will always love him!!!!







Loving someone is not suppose to hurt like that. I use to think the more pain the more it meant that I loved him.. Not true.. Just my sick head. We play with the addicts to SAVE them and there is not anything we can do to SAVE them. Just save yourself. Addict know how to reel you back in when they think they have gave you enough rope to taste what life is like without them. It is a good life without them but we more than likely will go back and try to save them.. It has been years sense I had to deal with my kids father in relationship way, Now I just deal with him when he thinks he needs a shoulder to cry on cause he is sick and in the hospital again it is all because of the life he chose to live:mad: Not anything that I did to him. I have to not answer my phone when the numbers come up that could be him. I cant deal with it cause the SICK part of me still thinks that there is help for him but in realty there is not. His drug and drinking has cause brain damage and his inside are a mess all so. I know that he has had at least 1 heart attack and other problems but that does not stop him just gives him more a reason to use.... Please let him be and hit his bottom when people call you about him just tell them that you dont want to know how he is or any message he has to say.. In order to get away you have to be a Witch to them and the ones who want to help him... Sorry I rambled but this is something that I understand well....

I know what you are saying. I've been there. I finally put my foot down and was ready to leave. He had a choice to make, me or the crack. He chose me. He has been clean and sober for 10 months now. It has not been easy, but we did it together. I went to the AA and DRA meetings with him until he knew he could do it on his own. We now run a DRA meeting in MD together. I am keeping it going while he is incarcerated.

It is not an easy road, but if it is the one God has for you, He will give you the strength to see it through.

guilt is a major issue with alot of us in this world, my boo is now starting to realize that I can't always pick up the pieces and that she has to fix things herself, she no longer thinks about putting guilt trips on me or dare she even think about manipulating me. SAFP is gonna be a long hard ride for her and if she can come out of this sober and clean then I can handle it but if she does it just to get out of jail and such I will be here but I wont fix everything.

Billy'sbabygirl, thank you and I am glad that you did not have to endure the physical part of any abuse but sorry about the mental and emotional...that as you said is much easier to rationalize than the physical. My ex boyfriend and I had a good relationship when he was clean but once he relapsed it was crazy. He was alway good to me and then when he started using, even when he would see me he would have guilt and shame and "say all the right things" to keep me there to "help him". He would say that he "NEEDED" me to help him stay clean because I was the only good thing in his life. He had never been violent before but with the other case and his worry about going to prison I think he paniced or something. It was such a shock that I still don't understand it!!! Even though he lied about what he had done, I knew he was facing prison...only 3 years and so I told him I would wait. Did all of that and still almost got killed all because of addiction and his manipulative behavior. If anything, I know that it is hard to love an addict. They can drain the life from you. I just hope that everyone, no matter what choice you make is safe and that their families are safe!

I got a message from VINE this morning. The cases in the city were Nolle Prosequi. I sat at my desk and cried. I cried for so many reasons. As much as I love him, I know I can't have him back in my life. He and I are both safer with him behind the bars. I cried for feeling this away. I cried because his parents didn't show up for court to make sure the charges took. They are the one pressing the charges since he stole their car and broke into their house. I cried because I love him with all my heart and he got off on these charges, I thought what the hell is wrong with you. But I know there is nothing wrong with me feeling this away. I know I am still weak when it comes to him. He's still in jail, and will go to court in Carroll County in two weeks for the B&E on his parents house. I'm scared to death what will happen if they don't show up this time. I can't let him come home, but I can't let him end up on the streets again. It's funny this time last year when he was facing his first set of charges, I was doing everything in my power to get him out. And now I don't want him out. I can't live that life again!!!!

It's weird loving an addict..... always two sides of everything, the good and the bad. The torment and the love.

Billy'sBabyGirl, I am sorry for the way things went in your boyfriend's cases, however the only way he will ever begin to recover is to go ahead and do his time, and be removed from the outside temptations. Has any treatment or rehab been recommended? During this time in prison, I hope he is able to take advantage of some sort of treatment. I know what you mean above, about the two sides of everything- the man you love is not the addict you know. Remember that, and stay strong. He needs help, and you cannot do it for him. When will enough be enough for him? I know how conflicted your feelings are right now, and this is normal. I am always here for you!! Hugs!

Eternal Hope,

He did a stint in a rehab two years ago for 30 days. I keep telling him the only way he can come home, is he must do at least six months. He says he's in the drug treatment program there, but he also got into a fight while in the program. Every time I see him, he's coming up with some way of getting out of his sentence. It's weird a year ago I bailed him out twice. This time, I tell him every time he asks not to even ask. There's no money and I can't do it.

I tell him I am no longer the naive woman he know a year ago. And I have to give him credit, his lies are getting better and better.

I know I have to let him go, for his sake and my own sanity.

But you know it's weird loving an addict, they become your drug of choice (even when you've never had a drug of choice). Just one little taste of them and you're falling all over yourself just to get at them.

I agree, until he is ready to admit he has a problem, he will always be finding a way to try and get out of his sentence. It doesn't sound as though he has hit his 'rock bottom' yet. He is still letting the drug control him,and of course, all he wants is "out of there". If you show him you will no longer put up with this, you will be still loving him, but it is "tough love" you will be showing. If you have not already, read up on codepedency ( many of us have at least some of these traits when we are involved with an alcoholic or addict) I think you are showing signs of coming out of codependency, but it will only help you heal yourself more by reading up on this. I agree, you need to at this point, let him go for your own sanity sake!! Tell him you have had enough, you will not stand by and watch him self destruct. Stay strong! We are here for you!

Eternal Hope,

It's funny since you brought up co-dependency, when he went in this time, I started to see a therapist. Her first thought was depression, which I was. After dealing with him and his addiction for three years, I sanked to an all time low. Which I think most of us in here do. As we started to peel way at me. We found the co-dependency issue. To be honest I would not have come this far without her help.

I must admit this forum has been a part of my therpy in being able to express myself and feelings and not have them critizied!!!

And you're right he hasn't hit rock bottom, but I have. I'm so tired and stressed from him. It's hard letting go.

Thank You ALL!!! {{{{{BIG HUGS}}}}}.

You are most welcome! I have started a "Safe Harbor Garden" in this forum so we all have a place to share and discuss our feelings and thoughts on everything that is going on, as we help one another through this time in our lives!!!

Co-dependancy, look it up in the dictionary and you will see my picture next to the word. No one could have lived this more than I. I must admit that I have an addiction problem also, and she is my Wife. She is a "crack addict" and has some very severe mental/emotional problems. Right now her biggest problems is that she is in the "system" here in good ole Indiana. She is doing time in a minimum security facility in Madison, IN. I must admit, since she has been off the damn "crack" I see a big change in her. I talk with her several times each day on the phone, we write to each other, and for the past couple of weeks, I have been to visit her each Saturday. She has gotten into the Substance Abuse program that they offer and is attending AA and CA meetings. I know for fact that before her sentencing, she was trying very hard to get off the dope, but she had her days. I know what crack heads do, and I was not going to let her run loose. So I tolerated her use, but only to some degree. At least she was at home and not on the streets, where she had spent so damn many years before I met her. Her and I would go to AA meetings, and for two months we had her in a private rehab facility. Everything was working well, but she still had her legal issues backing her into the corner. Well, those legal issues finally became reality, and that is why she is in prison at this time. I really thought she would give up and give in. But so far she has proven me wrong. She is working, she is praying, she wants a better life than what she had. During our last visit, this Memorial Day it hit me like a ton of bricks.... Damn I married a beautiful woman! She looks so good, she has gained some weight. Her attitude is so different, she looks me directly in the eyes when she talks to me, her tone of voice is so positive, and the things she says are positive. She is now worried about me! What do I do, how is work going, am I eating the right things, have I been to see my mother, do I call my kids (from another marriage), have I been washing the truck and keeping our place clean, have I been feeling OK. These are things I never heard from her before. Something is working... God I do believe has entered into the picture. What really got me the other day was, she called me and I could tell she was crying. She told me; " I have not been a wife to you" but, " I want to be your wife, I want to have a real life with you", "will you please keep helping me get over this when I come home", "will you please stay my husband", "Can we build a real life together" After I stopped crying, my answer to her was "Yes my love"
You see, I have known her heart ever since I first met her! I knew the potental she had, and I do believe that God is now bringing that out in her
Even with all that has happened, all she has been through in her life, I do believe in her with all my heart. I pray everyday 24/7 for her and for us.
So many wonderful things have happened since she was taken away from me. Our worst fears of prison, have deminished, she is now working on the outside, she is in her classes and meetings, she wants a real life, she wants to do better, she wants to find life beyond drugs. Prison is terrible, but sometimes, it works, sometimes it does change, and I really believe that God is at work here, and I will go along with God everytime. I will also continue to support and protect my wife, as a husband is directed to do in the Bible. I would ask that all of you here at PTO help us along with your prayer, as we will do for you also.

God bless you all and your loved one's.

JR

I sat down last night after work and wrote down some of the things that had been bugging me about my boo and co depedency and us both being addicts, seeming we may not use but you are still an addict, addictions just change. I came up with something, I fix my problems before they got bigger and bigger, she didnt fix them and hoped they would fix themselves, now she is sitting in county waiting for transfer to the SAFP program. You ( as in everyone) have to want to fix the problem and work to fix it or it will fester into more problems and become uncontrollable.

Billys Baby, you pretty much said it all. When I got married I already had 2 sons owned a 3 bd. room 2 bath pool home in a nice area, had a vehicle that was paid for, and impeccable credit, and most of all "my pride". My husband and his crack habit left me with all my belongings in storage,a forclosure, a repossesion, a line of harrassing creditors and the worst credit ever. This is really hard to swallow especially when I suffer from OCD and was never even so much as late with a bill! Anyway I also suffered from co-dependency, always thinking I could fix the everything (little did I know). Well his addiction finally landed him in prison for 2 years, which I must admit I was glad, because then I didnt have to watch him destroy himself and wonder all the time. And his charges were also for stealing his parents vehicle, credit cards, etc. They did show up for court, with much to say...That I believe was his rock bottom and he has been out for almost a week now and so far so good. We face many struggles, but his want to succeed is strong and gives me hope where there was none. Even so I will never let my guard down nor will I let an addict rule my life(or my childrens) or be an enabler....I know I wont because all my hurt and anger has turned to strength, that I continue to pray for everyday. JR- I am really happy for you, that is awesome news.. Eternal Hope- Im sure the "Garden" will be therapeutic for many of us , Thank You

I agree with most of you...but let me ask you this question...

do any of you know how many drugs circulate the prisons? its easier to get drugs in prison then on the streets. I know this because my husband went through the crack addiction last year....it was sad and this year he fell again, this time herion. I finally put my foot down and said this is IT! im done. I will support him in anything he does except DRUGS. i refuse to be an enabler. I was for so long paying over 5000 last year in crack debt and I just paid for his herion crap. I am zero tolernece on drugs.
Please always keep an eye on them even being locked up... its everywhere.

My deal is that my boo is going to SAFP in Gatesville, Tx and I know all about the drugs in prison, etc, my half bro filled me in on this. But I do wonder about the SAFP program, is it safe enough?

The SAFP has a lot of good reviews from what I can tell via the net. I suppose part of it is because it is usually an extensive program, lasting more than just a few months. All in all, it does come down to the fact that if the addict WANTS to change, the program will definitely help them. I wish you the best of luck in this, keep us posted as to your boo's progress!

I am so glad I came across this today. I've been with my man since nov. of 2001 and he's been in since nov. of 2004 and the entire relationship has just been one huge roller coster. I got pregnant 2 months before he got locked up. He has been a crack addict ever since I've known him. Now that he is in prison I have learned more & more about all that he did while we were together and I believe he is still using just by how he is when he calls home. I am so glad I came across billys babygirl post "You Know What's Weird About Loving An Addict" because I really needed to read that today. I know that the best thing for myself and my baby girl is to leave him alone. I think that otherwise he will be taking her down the same road he has taken me down. It's a hard decision to make, espically when you love someone so much. I don't want to let go, but I don't see how we can ever have anything as long as he is constantly taking from the house for his own use and leaving the kids and I to struggle. The bad just out weighs the good too much.:broken:

I am so glad I came across this today. I've been with my man since nov. of 2001 and he's been in since nov. of 2004 and the entire relationship has just been one huge roller coster. I got pregnant 2 months before he got locked up. He has been a crack addict ever since I've known him. Now that he is in prison I have learned more & more about all that he did while we were together and I believe he is still using just by how he is when he calls home. I am so glad I came across billys babygirl post "You Know What's Weird About Loving An Addict" because I really needed to read that today. I know that the best thing for myself and my baby girl is to leave him alone. I think that otherwise he will be taking her down the same road he has taken me down. It's a hard decision to make, espically when you love someone so much. I don't want to let go, but I don't see how we can ever have anything as long as he is constantly taking from the house for his own use and leaving the kids and I to struggle. The bad just out weighs the good too much.:broken:


Thank you for sharing this with us!

Eternal ty for posting back, I just dont see if a inmate at the jail can get drugs dont ya think even the ones at SAFP can, ya know what I mean?

You are most welcome! I have started a "Safe Harbor Garden" in this forum so we all have a place to share and discuss our feelings and thoughts on everything that is going on, as we help one another through this time in our lives!!!

Eternal Hope, thank you for the "Garden". I know many of us will be using it. Especially me.

{{{{HUGS}}}}

Co-dependancy, look it up in the dictionary and you will see my picture next to the word. No one could have lived this more than I. I must admit that I have an addiction problem also, and she is my Wife. She is a "crack addict" and has some very severe mental/emotional problems. Right now her biggest problems is that she is in the "system" here in good ole Indiana. She is doing time in a minimum security facility in Madison, IN. I must admit, since she has been off the damn "crack" I see a big change in her. I talk with her several times each day on the phone, we write to each other, and for the past couple of weeks, I have been to visit her each Saturday. She has gotten into the Substance Abuse program that they offer and is attending AA and CA meetings. I know for fact that before her sentencing, she was trying very hard to get off the dope, but she had her days. I know what crack heads do, and I was not going to let her run loose. So I tolerated her use, but only to some degree. At least she was at home and not on the streets, where she had spent so damn many years before I met her. Her and I would go to AA meetings, and for two months we had her in a private rehab facility. Everything was working well, but she still had her legal issues backing her into the corner. Well, those legal issues finally became reality, and that is why she is in prison at this time. I really thought she would give up and give in. But so far she has proven me wrong. She is working, she is praying, she wants a better life than what she had. During our last visit, this Memorial Day it hit me like a ton of bricks.... Damn I married a beautiful woman! She looks so good, she has gained some weight. Her attitude is so different, she looks me directly in the eyes when she talks to me, her tone of voice is so positive, and the things she says are positive. She is now worried about me! What do I do, how is work going, am I eating the right things, have I been to see my mother, do I call my kids (from another marriage), have I been washing the truck and keeping our place clean, have I been feeling OK. These are things I never heard from her before. Something is working... God I do believe has entered into the picture. What really got me the other day was, she called me and I could tell she was crying. She told me; " I have not been a wife to you" but, " I want to be your wife, I want to have a real life with you", "will you please keep helping me get over this when I come home", "will you please stay my husband", "Can we build a real life together" After I stopped crying, my answer to her was "Yes my love"
You see, I have known her heart ever since I first met her! I knew the potental she had, and I do believe that God is now bringing that out in her
Even with all that has happened, all she has been through in her life, I do believe in her with all my heart. I pray everyday 24/7 for her and for us.
So many wonderful things have happened since she was taken away from me. Our worst fears of prison, have deminished, she is now working on the outside, she is in her classes and meetings, she wants a real life, she wants to do better, she wants to find life beyond drugs. Prison is terrible, but sometimes, it works, sometimes it does change, and I really believe that God is at work here, and I will go along with God everytime. I will also continue to support and protect my wife, as a husband is directed to do in the Bible. I would ask that all of you here at PTO help us along with your prayer, as we will do for you also.

God bless you all and your loved one's.

JR

JR,

I am so happy for you and your wife. I will keep youin my prayers that God will continue to watch over both of you.

Billys Baby, you pretty much said it all. When I got married I already had 2 sons owned a 3 bd. room 2 bath pool home in a nice area, had a vehicle that was paid for, and impeccable credit, and most of all "my pride". My husband and his crack habit left me with all my belongings in storage,a forclosure, a repossesion, a line of harrassing creditors and the worst credit ever. This is really hard to swallow especially when I suffer from OCD and was never even so much as late with a bill! Anyway I also suffered from co-dependency, always thinking I could fix the everything (little did I know). Well his addiction finally landed him in prison for 2 years, which I must admit I was glad, because then I didnt have to watch him destroy himself and wonder all the time. And his charges were also for stealing his parents vehicle, credit cards, etc. They did show up for court, with much to say...That I believe was his rock bottom and he has been out for almost a week now and so far so good. We face many struggles, but his want to succeed is strong and gives me hope where there was none. Even so I will never let my guard down nor will I let an addict rule my life(or my childrens) or be an enabler....I know I wont because all my hurt and anger has turned to strength, that I continue to pray for everyday. JR- I am really happy for you, that is awesome news.. Eternal Hope- Im sure the "Garden" will be therapeutic for many of us , Thank You

Maria3,

You sound just like me. I'm so determine not to let this happen to me and my family again, that I think it's just numbing me from the inside out and killing what feelings I have for him.

I agree with most of you...but let me ask you this question...

do any of you know how many drugs circulate the prisons? its easier to get drugs in prison then on the streets. I know this because my husband went through the crack addiction last year....it was sad and this year he fell again, this time herion. I finally put my foot down and said this is IT! im done. I will support him in anything he does except DRUGS. i refuse to be an enabler. I was for so long paying over 5000 last year in crack debt and I just paid for his herion crap. I am zero tolernece on drugs.
Please always keep an eye on them even being locked up... its everywhere.

Kari05,

Boy do I know about how many drugs are cirulated in the prisons. There are more there than on the streets and in a tighter compound. So they are readily available. The price is much higher. I said him just enough money to get the essentials. It might sound cruel, but I know him all too well. He would go into prison debt if given the opportunity.

I am so glad I came across this today. I've been with my man since nov. of 2001 and he's been in since nov. of 2004 and the entire relationship has just been one huge roller coster. I got pregnant 2 months before he got locked up. He has been a crack addict ever since I've known him. Now that he is in prison I have learned more & more about all that he did while we were together and I believe he is still using just by how he is when he calls home. I am so glad I came across billys babygirl post "You Know What's Weird About Loving An Addict" because I really needed to read that today. I know that the best thing for myself and my baby girl is to leave him alone. I think that otherwise he will be taking her down the same road he has taken me down. It's a hard decision to make, espically when you love someone so much. I don't want to let go, but I don't see how we can ever have anything as long as he is constantly taking from the house for his own use and leaving the kids and I to struggle. The bad just out weighs the good too much.:broken:

Countrygirl,

I'm learning the sometimes the right decisions are the hardest ones to make.

Hang in there and if you need anything.. just holler!! {{{HUGS}}}

BIllys

THanks for sharing. Sadly most women dont believe that their men are in prison doing dope. They deny it and think there is NO drugs in prison. I try to let people know like u said its worse in there then on the streets. My life has been turned upside with it all, and I have come to realize you cant help them unless they want the help. My husband is doing awesome, and after thousands of dollars i paid in crack debts, I AM DONE> and he knows it. I love him to pieces but wont ever put myself through that again. Love or no love, Ill walk away next time.

Have a safe evening.

MonkeyBoi,I know that drugs are available in prison...and they are drug tested as well ( at least where my husband is they are) In the SAFP program, they will also be tested. I pray your love stays clean, and gets the help they deserve. Please keep me posted!

Kario05 - I'm at my last bit of rope with him. I go to visit when I can. It seems this year it's harder for me to drive the hour up there and back. And when I finally have time to visit him, the first 5 minutes we talk about me and my girls and the rest is about him and what he's gonna do when he gets out. I don't believe he's hit rock bottom yet, but I have. And again, if people don't think they can't get drugs on the inside they are just fooling themselves.

Eternal - where he was last year they only did random drug test and only on those they suspected of use.

Billy'sBabyGirl:WOW. I am sorry to hear that they did only very random tests on your man...Then again, I am not shocked. Sigh! It is like they are setting them up to fail. :( Serious need in these prisons for different policies- ah but that is what we call the drug war, right? :angry: Hubby is in Georgia, and at his particular prison they do these random tests weekly or bi-weekly!! Of course those in with addictions are the first ones to be tested... and suspected.

Yup Yup Billy.some Women Are Blind And Denial Themselves About It. Where My Husband Is Also They Never Hardly Pulled Drug Testing. Its Amazing They Say Their Motto (doc) Is To Treat Each Inmate With Respect And Dignity And To Rehibalite Them To Learn How To Leave In Soceity In A Normal Pattern, I Dont See How When The Guards Themselves Are Selling Their Bodies To Inmates For Sex, And Bringing In The Drugs Themselves. It Makes Me Sick And The Day My Husband Walks Out Those Doors I Plan To Turn Them All In And Go Full Force With A Complaint... They Wont Like Me When I Am Done.

Kari

Eternal much thanks for that info I hope she stays clean too and that she stays on her meds there as well!

Kari05,

I want to stress that not all correctional officers are bad. Both my sister and her husband were CO's, and they played by the books. In the same token, I have seen the worse of the CO's where he was at.

I would be extermely careful in turning anyone in. There are gangs in prison.

PLEASE BE CAREFUL!!!

So he writes me this letter on the 4th. Tells me he doesn't want to get bailed out. Tells me he has finally found his higher power, reading these words, I'm flashed back to 2 years ago when he was in the half-way house and we walked around the harbour talking about God. A big part now is saying how long with this last this time.

I'm very spirtual and believe God is always with us. But to use God, well that's just truly hypocritical.

Anyways, the letter was about 50-50 on him and me. So I guess we're making progress.

It's funny just yesterday afternoon my therapist said "He's your drug of choice". You're an addict when it comes to him.

Maybe that's what loving an addict does to you?

Not necessarily whats your therapist said was true, its her job and such and thats how some of them act just my opinion, that is why I stopped going to therapy and learned to deal with alot on my own and boy it did good, but thats just me.

Your an addict only if you allow yourself to be one. Again my opinion as well!

I stay with my boo for many reasons I don't give up on people easily, we have had our separate times apart and it make us grow fonder of each other each time, its called personal space and it does work.

My opinion again lol, don't let anyone tell you what you need to do, use your brain and common sense and ya heart to do what you want in life. I learned this the hard way with 4 of my half siblings being addicts themselves and our mother dealing with it all, she is now free of her kids and taking time to herself.

Billys,

No I dont judge any CO's there are good ones out there this I know. I would never do anything to put my husbands life in danger, once he is gone though like I said I will start protesting and making the policticans more aware of whats going on there. The prison down the road from my husbands is privately owned. when you visit there you are searched and then sent to the dogs...literaly... they search for drugs. they started that about 2 months ago and have caught over 65 people smuggling in drugs. I am so happy. I wish my husband was there. The good thing about this place is even the guards are dog searched. I think its wonderful. My husband spent time there long ago and said if he had to do time it would be there by his choice. I have zero tolerence for drugs, any kinds! My ex husband is now trying to enter a rehab and get this....they told him Cocaine is not a addictive drug......wtf is wrong with these rehabs here? I mean come on. Hes so addicted it burned the septem in his nose. its gone. like one big nostril. I am very supportive of my husband and he knows it and as well as my ex I dont wish nothing bad on him.
My bosses son 22 in the last 4 weeks....stolen cars, money, checks, robbed people, broke in to houses, businesses, all over crack-cocaine. and they say its not addictive.....this kid is such a good kid, I dont even know him now. and it happened so quickly. Sorry for venting Im just so tired of seeing so many people get hurt over drugs. I wish i could help them all, but an addict has to help themselves first. Have a good day everyone
Kari

Wow Kari, they told him cocaine is not an addictive drug...hmmmm this flipped me for a loop, as I am sure it did him. Sounds like he needs to try another rehab!!!! I really feel you on this! Oh, by the way you are always able to vent in here... ;)

I can't believe they said coke was addictive. I can't tell you how many ppl I know who are hooked on coke. Most of them are now on crack.

It's a sad state of affairs when rehabs don't see the right drugs as addictive.

Like Eternal I would go through the phone book until I found a rehab that would take it as serious as it should be taken!!!

Kari, I've had a second thought about this-- :eek: I am wondering if he told you the truth...any rehab that IS a rehab is NOT going to say Cocaine is NOT addictive. After thinking about this for a while it really made no sense. I am not trying to put doubts in your head, but this is a possibility, considering the ex is hooked on coke. He could be just avoiding the rehab process again. Just a thought here... :hmm:

Kari,

We do sometimes forget how cunning they can be. Find another rehab and also call this one without him knowing it and see if he's telling you the truth.

you know I did find out that Insurance companies will not cover that cost for Cocaine anymore. Atleast not a bed in a rehab. But... He is attending NA and some woman he goes to see, he is depressed ever since our divorce and well honestly he is my EX and i worry but he has to have family and all help him, because im the cause of his depression. Im not the one he needs to lean on. Someday we will be back to friends. Have a great weekend!

:eek: You are kidding right, they said cocaine was not addictive? They have another thing coming, I myself a recovering Coke head, got addicted to it right after my 3rd snort, when I couldn't snort anymore I shot up and it all spiraled down from there. Addicts are cunning and can manipulate anyone or any system, I know I used to do it.

For a rehab to say that goes against what it is truly about, getting clean.

I know I'm a little late to the party but here's my 2 cents worth.
I stay because he is still trying, and making progress, however slowly. Because he doesn't keep making the same mistakes (although he does make new and better ones!) Once he uses, all bets are off and I know that. Anything that happens then is the dope, not the man, and I go to extreme lengths to protect myself and my assets once that happens. Once he used, I stopped helping him, no $, no cell phone minutes, no car. He's been clean now alomst 3 years, by his own choice. Believe me, he went to great lengths to aviod stopping, the deals he made with himself!
You know them, "I'll only use a little, I'll only use after I test, I'll only use on the weekends, I'll hang out the boys but not use"? He tried each and every one and every time he called from booking I'd say "Damn Baby, now what?" And he'd have some other "deal" cooking!!! Finally, he ran out of things to try and all that was left was the realization that when he's using, he's nothing more than a punk for the bag. He still has problems, but dope isn't one of them.

Progress is a good thing!!! I am glad he is making the effort now to get clean!!! Your story sounds so familiar, with the deals he made with himself, and the limits he would set for himself..and in the end he realized he was not getting anywhere because the drug was controlling him. I am glad that he is now more focused, and I wish you both continued success!!!

I just have a little insight to the whole rehab saying coke is not addictive:
Here's the deal (coming from a recovering addict for 8yrs, teacher and therapist for narcotics and opiants dependency)
Coke IS ADDICTIVE!! But here is the confusion; if you "snort" it up your nose, then "detox" really isn't "detox", because there really are not any physical withdrawls!!! Now, if you smoke it (usally in the form of "rock" aka "crack-cocain), if you inject it(aka "bump" it"), then the withdrawls are very real, very painful, and depending on the length of use, can Kill you to try to come off w/o help. Now, how can you get off drugs w/ more drugs, right?? Isn't that how people get addicted to "pills"?? Really, that depends, Methodone is usually used to help heroin detox, once that's out, the methodone withdraw comparison is simply a joke!!
I can ALWAYS spot a "play the game" person!!! Everything they say is so.... routine in EVERY ADDICT!! And the last thing I want to clear up is the, "once and addict always an addict" NOT TRUE!!!!! Let me short explanation!! EVERYTHING in your life is a choice!!! If you made up your mind to do drugs, then you made the choice to keep doing drugs. If you made up your mind to detox and stay clean forever, then you already made your choice!!! Once out of your body, it is all in your head, and you must keep to your choice!!! People can choose to never again be an addict. That choice, and followed thru, you are not an addict!!! Look here, 8yrs!!! That was a choice and it is the same choice everyday I wake up!!! So I tell my peeps (that I sponsor) to STOP using it as a crutch and be accountable for your choices!!
once we don't hold them accountable, we are keeping them handicapped!! If you LOVE THEM, REALLY LOVE THEM OR YOURSELFS, TOUGH LOVE IS THE BEST......NO MORE ROOM FOR EXCUSES!!! EASIER SAID THAN DONE RIGHT....WRONG!!! MAKE UP YOUR MIND, AND LET YOUR WORDS AND ACTIONS BACK IT UP!!! IT IS THE BEST GIFT "OF LIFE" YOU CAN GIVE YOUR LOVED ONES. ANYBODY NEED ANY INFO ON INTERVENTION AND A NON-LOGISTICAL APPROACH TO REHABILITATION OF MINE THAT HAS A 96% SUCCESS RATE AND STILL TRACKING, PM ME, I WILL NEVER TURN A DEAF EAR!!

[quote=Eternal Hope]Kari, I've had a second thought about this-- :eek: I am wondering if he told you the truth...any rehab that IS a rehab is NOT going to say Cocaine is NOT addictive. After thinking about this for a while it really made no sense. I am not trying to put doubts in your head, but this is a possibility, considering the ex is hooked on coke. He could be just avoiding the rehab process again. Just a thought here... :hmm:

I think I confused you all. IM not saying its NOT addictive. Im saying that straight cocaine ... the insurance companies are denying people with that addication for bed programs. Instead treatments centers require them to attend na meetings, because they feel coke is not addictive to where you need to be in a 45 day program lets say where you live there. Insurance companies have bigger fish to fry now with Crack, Crank, Herion, sniffers etc. My EX isnt lying its the insurance company that denied the claim due to it is non addictive for over stay programs.

sorry i confused everyone LOL

Hows everyone doing today?

Boo got pulled to go to SAFP today, I am glad, its time we both get our crap together!

MonkeyBoi,that is just super!!! My best to both of you!!! Please keep us posted!

Ty hun I will keep everyone posted when I know all the info and such! Its the wait game now

monkey what is SAFP?

It is the substance abuse felony program, court ordered drug rehab, there is more information on the Texas threads. Other states I am not sure about if they have certain court ordered drug rehab programs.

Monkeyboi,

That's fanastic, I'll keep you both in my prayers.

Ty hun it will be needed, I have a month or more depending on when she gets in the system till I can see her and I am beside myself with nothing to do. While she was here in county I visited instead of playing around and now that I cant see her for awhile its like WOW wait up I don't know what to do!

best of luck monkeyboi thanks for sharing with us. I am new to alot of programs and i think they should have more of them for these men and women out there

Ty hun and yes there needs to be way more programs for everyone!

This is the first time for me. I have been a daily reader of the site
for several years. I just never stopped to register. Alot of questions
I had answers to. I think this is a great site for answers and support.
I have a brother in and a best friend and my x-boyfriend in TDC.
My x-boyfriend is in Saf-P for the second time. He was out of TDC
after only 10 months. As usualy started using again. He has a beautiful
9 year old daughter and a good family. Living with an addict is the hardest most painful thing there is. But your so right, they will lie,
cheat BR never stoled he didn't have to I had money and it was always
just this one time. I had known him for 9 years. We were together
for 17 months. I had to stop the relationship because it became physical
and my money would have been gone. How many have heard I've got
your back baby? Never happens. I love him today as much as always
but I don't use and never have, but living with an addict I've learned
alot. Walk away, keep a journal. Mine was easier two days after
I told him no more his parole was revoked he got lucky and just
got months at Saf-p in Glossbrenner. I'm sure he will try to come
back into my life when he comes home. Stay strong or beleive me
you will completely lose you. Thanks for all the great stuff this
site provides.

There are support groups available to people who have loved ones that are addicts. They can help you to understand why addicts do what they do and teach you ways to cope. I know from experience...they work. Picking up after the addict only enables them to continue living that lifestyle and destroying everyone and everything around them.

Yeah the support groups I have been to those before and just it didnt fullfill my issues, I guess I need the one on one therapy stuff

You know I tried the support groups. And I didn't get them either. I really do so much better on a one-on-one basis. Besides you guys are my support. Most of the time I just need to know what I'm feeling is me being paranoid or slowly going crazy. That it makes sense to someone else. There is so much to be, being involved with an addict.

I don't think others in society know just how tough it is for us to love an addict, inmate etc like we do.

Billys....Anytime you need soemone to talk to feel free to pm me or even if u just want to vent. Take Care your a strong person and God will be by your side all the time.

How are things going for you Kari??

Hi Eternal...

Well Lets See.....my Husband Is Doing Awesome I Can Not Believe The Changes He Has Made. Hes Very Happy And Finally Sees The Light That Their More To Life Then Becoming Institutionized In That Place.

My Ex Is Doing Ok, Still Attending Meetings And Talking To A Counselor. Im Happy That Hes Getting Help, But Angry To That I Sit Here Working 2 Jobs To Support His Kids And He Gets To Collect State Aid While Recovering From Drugs? Not Much I Can Do. He Never Paid Childsupport In His Life So I Guess I Will Just Grin And Bear It And Hope He Gets Better Soon Then Maybe He Can Take Responibity For His Kids.

Other Then That I Saw My Husband This Weekend And Had An Awesome Visit.

How Are You Doing Eternal?

Well I got a letter from him yesterday. I thought I would share it with you. It's so very typical addict!!

Hey -
How ya been? Hopefully well. Well it's been 2 weeks since I've seen ya. I get the picture though. I'm not F$$kin stupid. I guess all of the ignorant shit I've done to you, this is what I deserve. I have finally lost everything. For some reason I thought it would never happen. My children won't speak to me. My parents want me to spend 10 - 20 years in prison and my girlfriend cuts me loose also. I should of figured this out a month ago. But why did you tell me about sending me money. Now I owe people in here money. You should've just told me you couldn't. I told you just to let me know. I wasn't going to get mad. This program I'm enrolled in is all about change. I don't know. This is not meant for pity, but I know longer care. Write back or visit if you want.
Love,

P.S.
You WIN

He still doesn't get it!!!!!

Not sure what to say about the letter to me it sounds like a pity party

Billys,

Ahhhhh the letters.......Ive gotten some pretty "guilt" letters last year and even phone calls, but you have to stay strong, focus on you, when an addict wants help, they dont wallow in guilt they seek the help. I watched my husband manipulate the hell out of me, and when i finally learned about drugs and what to look for as signs, he realized Im not playing the game. Billys, I wish you luck and be strong and know that you are # 1 first and foremost!

Kari

If I start getting these pitty party guilt letters I will be pissed

Lol At Monki I Know The Feeling.....but Ive Gotten Those Letters...

Hope Billys Doing Better Let Us Know!

I am sittin here thinking pitty party my arse LOL

Hey Everyone,

Well here's an update on our progress slow as it may be. After reading his little pity letter. I wrote back probably the meanest letter I have ever written and sent. My first sentence was "You stupid F$cking SOB, if you think this is some game you're an A$$". It went from there. Telling him he needed to figure it out and for once I wasn't going to give him the answers. And once he figured it out maybe I would see him. I told him no matter what happens he would always be loved by me. I just can't do it anymore.

I got a new letter this week. At first it was harsh, which is what I expected. But then he talked about the program, how he was learning humbleness and with God's help he would make it. He was also give Sr Rep for his class.

I wrote him back and told him how proud of him I was and was glad he was starting to figure things out.

I haven't seen or talked to him in 4 weeks now. I still don't know where I'm headed with him. A big part of me is scared of him. Not that he is abusive but because of the addiction. I don't want him anywhere near me. But then there's a part of me that loves him dearly

BBG, I feel the same way at times about not wanting her near me and all this, but I look at it this way its been 7 years and we have managed to still be close after everything, addictions and all. I don't think I would go another year without my boo, period, addiction or not, 7 years is too much to throw away!

Billys- Glad That You Wrote That Letter It Needed To Be Done, Sometimes Tough Love Is Whats Needed. Beleive Ive Been There With Justin And It Isnt Easy To Do. But He Is Right, With Gods Love And Guideance He Will Make It, Just Remember He Has To Do This On His Own, And Want To Do It, I Tried To Force Justin At First And The Alanon Meeting They Told Me He Has To Want It, All I Can Do Is Sit Back And Give Some Tough Love. It Worked I Pray Every Day That It Stays That Way With Him And I Always Tell Him How Proud I Am Of Him. Sounds Babyish But They Need It

Take Care And Chin Up...and Smile :)

Well it's been a month I've seen him. So I went for a visit yesterday.

It was so hard. I wanted to run every minute I was there while I was waiting for him. I kept thinking this was just a waste of time. He hadn't changed.

He walked into the booth and stared at me. I felt so bad. His first words is this visit just to F**k with me. I told him no that I wanted to see him and surprise him. He said "You wanted?" I said no I needed. He asked about me and I told him I didn't want to discuss me. But I wanted to hear how he was doing. From there He told me about the class he was in and how he had signed up for the next one. His initial appearance in is September. He also told me the charges the city had dropped back in April, the County had picked up so now he was looking at 62 yrs max. Wow. I started to cry. He asked me what I needed. I told him I needed him to pick me up and swing me around like he used to. I needed to feel safe in his arms. And then I started to cry again. He said babe where's your faith, you are always telling me to have faith, where is yours. I told him I still had it, but it was hard hearing the sentence. Actually hearing someone tell you he could be facing that long of time.

I left there feeling for the first time ever he was finally starting to figure it out. I told him I was so proud of him. I told him I would be back, I didn't know when, but I would be there. He asked if I would be at the court hearing in October. I said absolutely.

You know what's weird about loving an addict??? It's no matter what they've done to you, you somehow can overlook it and still love them!

Hi Eternal...

Well Lets See.....my Husband Is Doing Awesome I Can Not Believe The Changes He Has Made. Hes Very Happy And Finally Sees The Light That Their More To Life Then Becoming Institutionized In That Place.

My Ex Is Doing Ok, Still Attending Meetings And Talking To A Counselor. Im Happy That Hes Getting Help, But Angry To That I Sit Here Working 2 Jobs To Support His Kids And He Gets To Collect State Aid While Recovering From Drugs? Not Much I Can Do. He Never Paid Childsupport In His Life So I Guess I Will Just Grin And Bear It And Hope He Gets Better Soon Then Maybe He Can Take Responibity For His Kids.

Other Then That I Saw My Husband This Weekend And Had An Awesome Visit.


Kari,
I am glad to hear that your husband is making positive changes for himself and that he is making the decision that being incarcerated is not what he wants for his life!! Congrats on the awesome visit!! :D
I feel you on having to continue all support for your kids alone while your ex gets treatment. Once he is better, out and working, I hope you are able to get the added support he needs to pay to help make his children's lives more productive. You deserve happiness my friend, and I pray it comes quickly and things change! HUGS!!!

BBG, I feel the same way at times about not wanting her near me and all this, but I look at it this way its been 7 years and we have managed to still be close after everything, addictions and all. I don't think I would go another year without my boo, period, addiction or not, 7 years is too much to throw away!

I am truly wishing all of the best to you and your boo.. Seven years is a long time, I would have to try as well! Possibly this will be what it takes to make the changes in her life so that you two can be happy!!! ;)

Well it's been a month I've seen him. So I went for a visit yesterday.

I left there feeling for the first time ever he was finally starting to figure it out. I told him I was so proud of him. I told him I would be back, I didn't know when, but I would be there. He asked if I would be at the court hearing in October. I said absolutely.

You know what's weird about loving an addict??? It's no matter what they've done to you, you somehow can overlook it and still love them!

Billy'sBabygirl,
Ouch, he is looking at a possible longgg sentence. :( I feel for you deeply here, but I am glad he is acting and seems to be thinking more realistically. You will continue to love them, of course- that is a given. Yet, you have come a long way in understanding his addiction, so you are able to love and not sit there with blinders on. I am happy to hear he is seeming to figure this all out, and I sure do wish you both the best in October at his hearing!!! HUGS!

False Guilt- That is me. I was married for 10 years to my soul mate & father of my 2 children, I spent the last 3 years of the marriage covering up my husbands addiction to crack cocaine. Of course he stole from me & our entire family, he lied, cheated, & used & abused me. I felt like I was the town idiot. After the house & car was repo'd, and most of our valuable possesions in the hands of who knows for god knows what... I took what I could & packed the kids & left him. I turned my back on him out of anger & frustration. I hired an attorney & began the paperwork for divorce. I began dating someone else (that I felt) rescued me from this insane life I was running away from. I fell head over heels for this guy. He made me smile & laugh again. When word got out I was dating, yep, you know it. The soon to be ex husband went off the deep end. He tried to do anything & everything he could to destroy this new found relationship. Should I have waited until the divorce was final? Should I of just gone back to him? I didn't know what to do. I didn't want to be embarrassed & didn't want to be the result of any problems for anyone else. I had 2 children to worry about, was I being selfish? It ended up in a violant outraged physical fight between my newfound love & my soon to be ex. I am not sure what exactly happened because I wasn't there to witness.... but my ex had a broken jaw bone & severe bruising & my newfound love ended up in prison for 18 month's on assault charges. 5 days after the fight my ex committed suicide. I am lost for words at what drugs can do to a person. I don't even know how to cope with the feelings of guilt inside of me.

Babyblues2-
You have to realize first of all, that you left for your own survival and for your children.That is not a selfish thing! You know how much humilation, loss, and abuse you suffered as a result of your ex husband's addiction to crack cocaine. As often happens you were able to meet someone else who treated you better than you had been treated in your marriage, so it was natural to fall for this guy. Do not for one minute believe this is your fault that things happened the way they did!!! It sounds to me that you were the one who was unselfish for many years..you put up with a whole lot of hurt and embarassment as well as fear- out of devotion to your husband. I am truly sorry that your ex and your new found love ended up in a physical confrontation that resulted in your new loved one going to prison.
I am also sorry to hear that your ex chose to end his life. Suicide is actually a very selfish thing to do, because the survivors always suffer, wondering - what if I had done this, or what if I had done that...
Please do not continue to feel if you had done things differently there may have been another outcome. Drugs of this kind do distort the addict's reality until they are unable to see anything except the need and desire for the drug. I am sure you had many discussions with your ex prior to your decision to leave and take the children, and he was not ready to make a change in order to have you stay with him. Co- dependency makes us feel like it is not them, its all up to us to be able to make them better, and that is not correct. Try reading up on co-dependency, and perhaps your feelings of guilt will lessen. Also, part of the normal 'grieving' process is where this questioning of self occurs, especially dealing with suicide. When you are finally at the anger stage in grief and are able to allow yourself to be mad at your ex for doing what he did to your family by taking his life; to be angry because he chose a permanent 'solution' to a temporary issue...you will be feeling much better. Hugs to you, and I do pray you are able to move through the necessary stages quickly. You are deserving of a good life!!! This was not your fault, remember that!!

I am hoping this does it Eternal, plus I have some changes to make myself!

I feel it will all work out this time, Monkey, my best to you :)

Ty hun very much and its needed

You know what's weird about loving an addict, is you feel so damn guilty about making the right choices. And do you know why we feel so guilty, because it's what we haven't done before.

We have let them manipulate us. We've let them steal from us. We've let them put us into debt. We've given them 3rd and 4th chances. We've let them cheat on us. We've put our lives aside trying to save their lives. We've lost who we are for them.

So when we finally put our foots down, we feel guilty. Not because we don't deserve to put our foots down, but because we feel as if we're betraying them. But all along we have been betraying ourselves for them.

It's weird how we can care for everyone else, but the moment we start caring for ourselves we feel guilty.

Just some thoughts

that is so true.. I think guilt is a major addiction and a tough one to get over

Eternal: Thank You, your words were much needed & appreciated. I went thru counseling for over a year & I think in one paragraph you enlightened me more than words can say. I am very angry at my ex for being so selfish & taking his own life, but I think I will always live with guilt- maybe because of the in laws,They publicly humiliated me in the newspapers during the assault trial, (small town- treated as a high profile case) but it wasn't even the words they said, I try not to let it get to me; their blame & pointing fingers at me. I do not know how it feels to loose a child, so I cannot relate to how his mother feels, but she also could never relate to what her son put me thru & how I did have to survive. They blame me for the suicide? How is that possible? I don't think I will ever understand the reasons. I know time heals all wounds, but this family will never forgive me for something I had no control over. As for my new found love I am standing by him thru this prison term. We have discussed marriage & our future, and letting go of the past & starting over is what we need most. Had he never gotten involved with me he wouldn't be where he is. Yet, I do not think he is completely innocent, he made his decision & has to do his time for what he did, which he is. It is all so very frustrating. Thank you for taking your time to respond.

BB2

I am so sorry for everything you have been through. Please take heart in what Eternal has stated. It was not your fault and you had no control over what happen to him. I know how small towns are and talking moves quickly, but keep in mind if you hadn't done what you did the talk might have been mourning over you. As for you new man. I wish you both the best of luck and my prayers are with you.

I hate the guilt- whether false or not, some of our addicts try or do put on us and cuz we love them we put up with it, I put my foot down but I still have guilt over one incident that is gonna take awhile to go away.

HI Everyone

Hope you all have a nice weekend......


God Bless

Kari

You too Kari!!!!! :)

I hope everyone has a peaceful weekend

I hope everyone had a great weekend.

I spent yesterday visiting him. I cried a lot up there. But this time for all the right reasons. I have been trying to dissect everything. The facts that he is an addict and I'm co-dependent. I've listen to everyone's opionion and have come to the conclusion. That regardless of these fact I really do love him. In fact I love him more than I thought was possible.
Even up there visiting him we actually laughed. It's kind weird sitting there between plexiglas and laughing and then crying.

You what's weird about loving an addict is you never stop loving them!!!!

I am co dependent myself and dont care what anyone else thinks about my situation either, its my business and not anyone else's.

I cant wait for my visit but its gonna take time for her to do the 30-45 days needed for her to finish phase 1 and such.

Billy'sbabygirl, we will support you no matter what you decide hon. Love is love. Hugs!
Monkey I hope those days fly by til you can get a visit!!!

Well i read this thread almost daily.....my story isn't any differnt than everyone elses hear i suppose. I have loved an addict for 4 years and watch him destroy himself....i myself have l never touched the stuff. He is now is state and of coarse i thought this would be an eye opener for him and he would finally get "right"....WRONG!!! I have found out from a friend that he is already making more contacts and setting things up for when he gets out...makes my heart sink. After years of supporting him, making excuses for him and how he was brought up....only to have him write me the most wonderful letters he has ever written and i really thought there might be hope for us yet........then i find this out. I haven't gone to see him for three weeks nore have i written him. What would i say to him? Only to have him deny it, lie and beg for me to beleive he is on the right path. My heart is broke, and i am having a hard time dealing with his letters to me asking why i have written or seen him. I am trying to stay strong because i know this is the right thing to do..just let him go. I just beat myself up becasue i promised him i would never leave him and always be there for him...then i do this. But wether he is in the best enviorment or the worst he will find the drug if he wants to. SO i can't fight for him anymore until he decides to fight for himself.
Thanks for listening...i hope i am doing the right thing. :confused:

Only you can make the judgement if you are doing the right thing or not, if I were you I would confront him about this and tell him how you feel.

Eternal I need to find some stuff to do to make the time pass by a lil faster, this going to work and going home is taking a toll.

Simplegirl, I do understand, One last time I would definitely talk to him and let him know how this makes you feel. Then he can make the decision to change if he wants to- all you can do is lay it out for him - Hugs I know its tough loving an addict. They will try to make us believe anything... :(

Monkey, how about doing something nice for yourself... treat yourself to a movie or maybe some candles and a long relaxing bubble bath...pamper yourself a little bit... you deserve a break ;)

Well i have been thinking i should write him or go see him face to face. I just really don't like discussing that type of stuff in a letter or on a visit as they read everything and listen to it too. I also know he will just tell me what he thinks i need/want to hear. He has done it some many times before. I just know he is freaking out thinking i have left him, andi hate that. Letters and visits are their only contact to the "freeworld" it's like their lifeline.
Thanks for the responses! :rolleyes:

I agree, a face to face visit is the best way...keep us posted. We are here for you !

lol that I do often treate myself, what I really want is some vacation time to do absolutely nothing and have absolutely noone to call me, but we only have 2 workers in the office and I happen to be one of them, so that is hard to come by.

I think I need a hobby or something!

Thanks for the support I will keep you posted. I am such a wreck over all this i just dont even know which way to turn!!!

Not knowing where to turn is often a part of loving an addict, been there done that will do it again if I have to.

Face to face is always better because communication is more open and free and not on some piece of paper where it can be taken wrong.

I agree face to face is probably the best. But I'm a coward when it comes to stuff like this. I wrote him a letter telling him I was tired of everything... Didn't see or have contact for 4 weeks.. He told me it was probably the best thing I ever did for him. It really depends on the addict. I used to tell him how I wasn't going to stand for it anymore.. And still write him and do the calls. As long as I was allowing contact with me he thought he could still manipulate me.

Eternal.... Thank you!!!! Still haven't decided anything yet. Our conversations are good, but I'm still very leary of him.

Im glad he didnt misinterprete what u were saying in letter cuz alot of people tend to do that

He knows me better than myself. He did think he lost me forever. But that was my intention. I'm glad I did what I did.

And I'm not saying this is the way to go for everyone.

But tough love with an addict is a very good way to handle them.

He knows me better than myself. He did think he lost me forever. But that was my intention. I'm glad I did what I did.

And I'm not saying this is the way to go for everyone.

But tough love with an addict is a very good way to handle them.

Sometimes it is the only way to handle them! When we are always there through thick and thin, and then we lay it on the line for them, they may not take us seriously at first, but when they finally realize we are serious, one or more things may happen. May get their attention, and they may want to change because they do care about us, or at least seriously consider changing for the first time in their lives. Or, if they are totally into 'self', with no feelings for us, we will learn that then too. Glad this has made a difference, in your case, Billy'sbabygirl!!!! :)

I talked to him on the phone last night. I had some confessing to do. When he left me the last time I had started dating someone else. I thought there had to be something better. I told him I was seeing someone else. At the time he understood. After he was in a month, I told him I had stop seeing this person. I lied. But in the past two weeks, I realized how much my love for him was. My new relationship was/has failed, because my heart wasn't in it. That's when I realized I'm TOTALLY in love with an addict. I expected him to be angry. He told me he couldn't deal with that right now. He had to block it out. He told me I didn't need to explain anything to him. He said he didn't except my life to stop not after everything he had done to me. He told me how to handle a legal situation. I have the good Billy back!!! I used to tell him, I hate the mean Billy, *he was verbally loud, like most addicts in the crave stage of the addiction* That I want the nice/good Billy. I asked him last night if he could stay like this forever, he said "Baby, no one can promise anything forever". I said how about until tomorrow. And he said he could guarantee that. He said one day at a time. I THINK HE HAS FINALLY GOT IT. HE'S FIGURING IT OUT!!!!!!!!

Loving an Addict is figuring out how strong they are and more importantly how strong you are.

Bravo Billy'sBabygirl!!!!! One day at a time it is :D You are so right about Loving An Addict- you will find strengths you never knew you had before... whether it is strength to continue on with them, or the strength to leave. Sounds like there is light at the end of this tunnel for you two :)

I got a letter from boo and it seems the first 30 days have been pretty hard on her but she is getting used to it, am hoping she goes to phase 2 soon!

Sorry to hear that the first 30 have been so hard!!! Prayers being sent as I type, hang in there Monkey!!!!

ty hun I still have to call the counselor to find out when she can get a visit but I have to wait due to a few things that have come up.

I wish you the best on this Monkey...keep us posted!!!

WELL ITS BEEN AWHILE SINCE I CHECKED IN HERE. COURSE DIDNT THINK I WAS GOING TO.....BUT LAST SUNDAY JUSTIN SLIPPED AGAIN.:angry:

NEEDLESS TO SAY I BAILED HIM OUT AGAIN AND AM NOW BROKE. WE HAD IT OUT AND I TOLD HIM THIS IS IT, EITHER POOP OR GET OFF THE POT CUZ IM DONE WITH THIS POOP.

HE SEEMS TO BE DOING FINE AND MADE PROMISE TO DO GOOD FROM NOW ON, ALTHOUGH I SAID DONT PROMISE THEY ALL HAVE BEEN BROKE JUST DO IT FOR YOURSELF.....AND THATS ALL IM ASKING

ITS SO STRESSFUL

HOPE ALL IS WELL WITH YOU ALL

KARI

Sorry to hear all the poop u are going through

Eternal I will keep yall posted for sure

kari05,

I'm so sorry to hear about Justin's relapse. I've been there with bailing them out. I hope everything works out for you. Both you and Justin are in my prayers.

Monkey... hang in there that first visit is going to be awesome!!!!!!!

I saw Billy on Saturday.....You know everytime I go up there someone asks is your son in here.... What do they think only young guys get in trouble and not that we're old, he's 31 and I just shhhhh turned 40. He waited until he was 25 before he even took a pain pill. I wish he never did...Anyways... My point is addiction doesn't discriminate.

We had this really good visit again... and I really want to get my hopes up.... especially when he said he knew who he wanted to spend the rest of his life with and who he wanted to travel it down along side of. When I asked "who?" he goes some dude.. I just giggled.. then he said are you gonna flash me now... (before he went in and he would call me a dude, I would flash him and say would a dude have these)...He told me he used to never worry about me not being there, but his biggest fear is if and when he gets out.. if he relapses, which the odds are he will, I will leave him. I told him, that's where honesty is going have to be our number one priority. I told him I wasn't blind... But the one thing that would have my bags packed and gone in a heart beat, if he ever put a needle in his body again. I can handle just about anything else and we can deal with getting help for anything else... but not the needles.. and that when he got out he still needed to go to his meeting and church.. If he did all this and still relapse, then we could work through it. But it's has to be a way of life for both of us now... meetings, classes, therapy... it's all or nothing....He said he understood...

You know what's weird about loving an addict.. Is we hang in there forever!!! where most would give up....

(((((((((Kari05))))))))) so sorry to hear about Justin...praying for the best in this!!!
Billy'sbabygirl, I am glad he understands...and you are so right!!!!

BBG you have a good point for some reason we do hang in there forever

thanks all.....I appreciate the help and talks.

Im staying positive and look forward to a bright future!

We are all behind you too Kari05 for exactly that!! A brighter future!!!!!!

I need more advice on this subject please...
My story is very long. I would like to share it but it would just make everyone cry so I will give you the short version...
My husband is a drug addict. He has been locked up 3 times since we have been together (7 years) and now he is locked up for time #4. No matter what pain he caused me I have always there to catch him every time he fell. At the begining of the year (2006) something happened and I have been falling apaprt ever since. I have begged him to help me but he hasn't done it yet. I know there isn't much he can do from behind those walls but he can still communicate with me on the subject and that would be a big help in itself. Last week I got a letter from him fussing at me for not writing him enough. I couldn't believe he was being so selfish. I have told him time and time again that I am having a hard time simply functioning right now and he has the nerve to try and make me feel guilty that I am not writing enough. It really got me to thinking and I finally took a good look at our past and found a pattern that I have been oblivious to all along. I have been the giver. I have always been the one to catch him when he falls. He has never done anything for me except drag me down... no wonder he doesn't know how to help me now or feel like he needs to. He only sees things from his perspective and he tries to play off the fact that I will feel sorry for him and guilty and that is what that letter was about. I looked it up on the internet and found co-dependency information. Okay so I am co-dependent... now what do I do?

Lil~ I know how you are feelings. Being an enabler is something we dont want to be, but we feel sorry for our men and sometimes love is so strong that you never want to give up for you thnk in your heart they will change. I learned the hard way and after many sessions at al-anon meetings I learned Im an enabler and can not allow myself to do this anymore as i am not really helping my husband, i am making him lead right to his death because i constantly pick up the pieces when he screws up. It was a very hard choice to make but I finally started standing my ground and let him know I have 2 children to care for and then there is ME I need to take care of me. for years I dealt with this type of behavior and i wont tolerate it anymore.

You need to maybe check out some of those meetings you will be amazed at what you learn, I sat there and every situation that was discussed I can honestly say to myself, omg that me, omg that me omg thats me.
Keep your chin up and remember to live life for you sweetheart, because i learned if you dont love your self then you cant love someone else uncondtionally......
Im here if ya want to talk......Pm me

Kari

Update on Justin...

He contacted me last week and told me he was going to talk to the hearings officer and did that. He has been placed in the hole and they are going to try to get him transfered off that compound. Its hard though because like I told him, drugs are in every prison and its not going away, until you have the wilpower to say NO it wont ever end. He has to make that descion and I cant help with it. I support him 100% but again he has to make that choice. I am proud of him for going to someone and telling them he has been feeling temptation from the drugs. he did the right thing. I love him and hope he makes it through the last 2 yrs of his long bid. The hearings officer and I have been communicating and he really cares about Justin. Cross your fingers!

lil mommi Try reading Codependent No More. It is a wonderful book!! I read it a few times and when I start to feel like I'm slipping in to my old ways I read it again! I wish you the best of luck in finding yourself again!!!

kari that is a postive move on his part I hope that he can find a place to do his time and not use again..It is all up to him.. Hang in there

I hate the word co dependent but whatever, to me noone but me and boo will ever understand our relationship and its up to us to do what we please.

I read that book years ago and it helped a little but you have to get it within yourself that you know where your priorities are and stick with it.

CO-DEPENDENCY!!! I HATE that word as well. But let's face it. Most people living and loving with addicts are. The problem I thought was you had to be an addict to be co-dependent. Either drugs or alchol addiction, right? Wrong. You can be co-dependent and not be an addict. We're all out there looking for something. Some of us are just more dependent on others or other things than others. That's all. So what if someone gives us a label. The world is full of labels.

Now on the positive side, I went and saw him again this weekend. My man listens to country music.... This is a big shock because before he went in he used to make me change the station to the harder rock stuff. Maybe just maybe he's learning.

BillysBabyGirl, you are right about being co-dependent and not having to be an addict. My relationship started out pretty good and when the drugs started so do the problems and I just strated doing what I thought I had to do to help my husband. Now I see that I lost myself in his problems and I made him expect me to put my life aside for his problems. That is what I have done for years and he has really become selfish even though he didn't start out that way. I didn't realize what was going on until something happened that I had to have help with and I couldn't be the one to save the day for him. Now that I see what has been happening so many things make sense. I am trying to constantly remind myself that I need to change and that I have nothing to feel guilty about anymore. I am so thankful for the pto.

lil_mommi77,
Welcome to PTO and the D & A forums!!! Co-depedency is complex. We are glad to have you here, and we totally understand how you feel!!! Hugs!

lil_mommi77,
Welcome to PTO and the D & A forums!!! Co-depedency is complex. We are glad to have you here, and we totally understand how you feel!!! Hugs!
Thank you so much.

So I have a question... how do I approach this with him?

lilmommi77,

I told mine he was my drug of choice. That I was addicted to him. And we both needed to get well. Then I cited examples. Just like his drug, there wasn't anything I wouldn't do to be with him. And that was just unhealthy. I told him I love him with all my heart, but when he tried to guilt me into things, I will tell him, that is he decision and I need to worry about me and the girls first. He was shocked, but agreed. I had put him first too many times.

Hang in there!!! {{{{BIG HUGS}}}

Oh so true about not having to be an addict to be co dependent

I wrote my husband a letter and used the analogy of him holding a gun to his head. I told him I can't help but try to wrestle the gun from him and taking the bullet myself if I have to. I said that is just what our relationship has become. Sometimes I take the bullet and some times he does. I told him he needs to lose the gun all together or he will just be shooting himself from now on.

lil mommi77,

That was a very good analogy. I know it was hard to right that letter. But you should be very proud of yourself for finding the strength to do so.

{{{{BIG HUGS}}}}

I agree with Billy'sbabygirl, it took a lot of strength to write that and we are very proud of you!!!!! I hope it helps him to understand!!! ;)

Thank you guys very much... yes I did have a hard time writing that but I had an even harder time sending it. I will keep you guys posted on his response. I think IF he responds, he will either try and turn it around on me or tell me what he thinks I want to hear. I am not sure how I will be able to know he is genuine.

lil mommi77

I don't think you will ever be sure if he's geniune. I talk to Billy every other day. I can hear the change, I want to believe it so much. But there's always a voice in my head, saying "he's an addict, he's telling you what you want to hear". With trust being such a big factor, I just pray to God what he is telling me this time is the truth. God does everything for a purpose, and this is what I believe. I'm here for a reason and he's there for a reason. We're together for a reason. Whatever the reason is, my faith is in God and not him. If you can't trust him, trust God. That's what keeps me somewhat sane in this mess.

BillysBabygirl,
Yeah I think we are in the same state of my mind right now. Another thing I told him in the letter is that I am not here because he deserves it and I am not here because I am obligated to be here... I am simply here because I love him.

Excellent point!!!!!!!! lil_mommi77, excellent!!

lilmommi,

I agree with Eternal, that is an Excellent Point!!!! Hang in there and if you ever need anything just holler!!!

I am so sad today you guys. Part of the story that I didn't tell you is why I have been unable to write him that often anymore. I lost a baby to SIDS five months ago. I can hardly function to do insignificant things some days. It hurts so much and I can't believe he can overlook what I am going through and stress me out over some freakin letters. In a way I want to say screw him for being so selfish but I am so scared to lose him just the same. I can't handle the way he is doing me right now... I have enough to cry about as it is.

lilmommi77,

I am so sorry for your lost. You need to focus on your healing. I can't even begin to imagine the pain you must be going through. Please hang in there. My prayers are with you!!!

I posted this in the Safe Garden around May.

Well I went to see him after almost two weeks of no communications.

I still can't believe how selfish this man can be. In the past two weeks, my life has been so bad. I almost die due to an allergic reaction, my youngest daughter broke her wrist and there was some damage done to the car after a tire tread hit it. And all he was concerned about was why I hadn't sent some money for his basic needs and why I hadn't visited.

I understand, they have all day to wonder what's going on. And to think about everything and we are their only communication to life outside. But I would have like at least one, how are you holding up, baby? Did I get that? No instead, I got "I could walk away right now and you would not have to worry about me ever again. Would that make your life easier?" I LOVE THE Guilt! NOT!!!!!


After I wrote this is when I wrote my letter to him. I had to distance myself as far from him as possibly could. I had to learn to take care of me for a change. I'm still learning. There are days I don't want to face the world. But I get up and do the routine. I write him once a week. Mostly it's about how I hope he is continuing to improve. I visit once a week and there again it's about the program he is in. I cry alot when I'm visiting only because I wish he was here with me to help take some of the stress away. He knows how much I need to be held and told everything is going to be alright. But I had to tell him, that's what I needed. So let me do that for you.

{{{{{{BIG HUGS}}}}}} I promise you everything will be alright. I know this is hard, but you will get through it. Keep your faith and know you have a ton of new friends here at PTO who are all right there caring for you!!!

I really am trying to focus. I want to get better. I promised my baby that I would not take anything for granted anymore. Life is too short to be worried about this man all the time. I have 3 other kids and no one to help me. I thought after all me and my husband had been through he would find it in his heart to try and be supportive of me. I hate to think that it took a tragedy like this for me to find out where his priorities are.

lilmommi77,

He's an addict. Addicts are the most selfish people alive. They don't mean to be. But they are. When Bill was actively using, he used to tell me his priorities where 1) his kids 2) his parents 3) ME and my kids... He forgot his #1 priority was his drugs! I still stuck by him. I'm still here. Now when he mention his priorities 1)To stay clean 2) ME and all of our kids. Your hubby hasn't hit rock bottom yet. Give him time and space. He has to hit so he can see what he has been missing. Don't hold it against him.

PLEASE HANG IN THERE

BillysBabygirl,
So what do you suggest... should I give him a few more weeks without a letter so the one I just sent has time to sink in?

I would lil_mommi77, give it time to sink in and let him know you are very serious about this. Wait for his response to this letter before you do anything. Sending positive vibes your way, I know this is tough!!!

Billy'sBabygirl & Eternal Hope, Thank you two so much for your support. I don't know if you know how much I appreciate it. Today will be a good day =).

lilmommi77,

Absolutely. I totally agree with Eternal. Give it time for it to sink in with him. It took Bill 4 weeks for it to sink in. YOU NEED TO TAKE CARE OF YOU and YOUR KIDS! I know it's hard to change your priorities from taking care of him to taking care of you. BUT you can do it!!!!!

Billy'sBabygirl & Eternal Hope, Thank you two so much for your support. I don't know if you know how much I appreciate it. Today will be a good day =).

You are most certainly welcome!!! We do understand and we are here for you... I know today will be a much brighter one ;)

Hope everyone is well. Well Last wednesday i told you all Justin went to the hole to get a transfer. well this past Tuesday 2 other people from the ICA came to him and said he either gives 5 names of dealers or he goes back in general population. Obviously hes not going to snitch he has 2 yrs left doesnt need that label, so hes back out. I hate the way they manipulate these men and women. The brighter side is Justin has his annual review in 9 weeks so at that time he becomes a level 1 for the second time since he scored it last year but they overrode him. but hes in a level 3 prison. well this time he will be a level 1 and they have to MOVE him. I will be on their ass trust that!

Lil-hope your doing ok girl hear if ya need me
Eternal good see you
Billys hows things with you?

Oh yeah, yesterday was justins birthday and they (dudes in there) were gonna get him high on weed, he said NO i dont need that, or anything else my wife is all I need. I am so PROUD of him.

Kari,

Hanging in there. How about yourself?

Congrats on him saying no. But what is ICA? I know when Bill went in the hole last year, I worked with his case manager to get him moved ASAP. She was the only one I could trust. They had him removed within 4 weeks. If you need help with this one, PM me.

I know what you are saying. I've been there. I finally put my foot down and was ready to leave. He had a choice to make, me or the crack. He chose me. He has been clean and sober for 10 months now. It has not been easy, but we did it together. I went to the AA and DRA meetings with him until he knew he could do it on his own. We now run a DRA meeting in MD together. I am keeping it going while he is incarcerated.

It is not an easy road, but if it is the one God has for you, He will give you the strength to see it through.

Ladyhawk,
I am new here and just found this thread. I am a recovering addict, married for 10 years to a cronic relapser. So much of what has been said here is true, but I wanted to let you know that your post touched me where I live. It is my story also...the choice is me or crack. It is this belief that he is the one God has for me that carries me through the really hard times. I know that is not true for everyone, but it is true for me, at least for now. I also realize that God can change that if my addict continues to choose death instead of the life God gives him...it truly is "one day at a time". Thanks so much for sharing this.

It's weird loving an addict..... always two sides of everything, the good and the bad. The torment and the love.

Amen to that!:(

I know I'm a little late to the party but here's my 2 cents worth.
I stay because he is still trying, and making progress, however slowly. Because he doesn't keep making the same mistakes (although he does make new and better ones!) Once he uses, all bets are off and I know that. Anything that happens then is the dope, not the man, and I go to extreme lengths to protect myself and my assets once that happens. Once he used, I stopped helping him, no $, no cell phone minutes, no car. He's been clean now alomst 3 years, by his own choice. Believe me, he went to great lengths to aviod stopping, the deals he made with himself!
You know them, "I'll only use a little, I'll only use after I test, I'll only use on the weekends, I'll hang out the boys but not use"? He tried each and every one and every time he called from booking I'd say "Damn Baby, now what?" And he'd have some other "deal" cooking!!! Finally, he ran out of things to try and all that was left was the realization that when he's using, he's nothing more than a punk for the bag. He still has problems, but dope isn't one of them.

Denverswife...You are PREACHIN:) ...this is how I have learned to deal with my addict as well. As long as he continues to work to change, I will work wioth him. If he chooses to stop making progress, then all bets are off. the 12 steps have a saying "we seek progress, not perfection". This is my mantra, and so far, he has made progress, although, like yours, he has slipped on occasion and found new ways to "try" to have his cake and eat it too, lol:)

I wanted to share a poem that I wrote about addiction a few years ago.
I posted it in another thread... tell me what you think.
http://prisontalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=212614

lil mommi77,

What a wonderful poem. So very true!!!

Yesterday was a real bad day for me. It's was one of those days you wished you could climb under the covers and wait all this crap out. I was ready to quit my job, I got home and the house was the mess. Laying on the table was a letter from Bill. I knew it was coming he told me a bit about it. I was a little hesitate to open it, as for our discussions it sounded like it would be a preaching letter, instead I found this....

Acceptance is the answer to all my problems today. When I am disturbed, it is because I find some person, place, thing or situation - some fact of my life - unacceptable to me, and I can find no serenity until I accept that person, place, thing or situation as being exactly the way it is supposed to be at this moment. Nothing, absolutely nothing, happens in God's world by mistake. Until I could accept my addiction, I could not stay abstinent, unless I accept life completely on life's terms, I cannot be happy. I need to concentrate not so much on what needs to be changed in the world as on what needs to be changed in me and in my attitudes.
- I hope this explains some things

As a I read this, I thought how much I needed to be reminded of things. Even when he can't be with me, he touches places in my soul and makes me stop and see things in a whole different perspective. This was the hugs I needed yesterday.

BBG- I am so happy to hear this for you. What he said about acceptance is so true. It is exactly what I am trying to get Norman to see about himself. Your posts are inspiring and are helping me walk this unfamiliar road of loving myself enough to not tolerate the cr*p anymore. Thanks so much

KCG- No thanks necessary. I will pray you find the strength you need to keep going and for both of our loved ones to find the strength they need.

You know what's weird about loving an Addict - You realize when you thought you were alone, you're weren't there's a great group of people out there who care and actually understands!!!

Kari,

Hanging in there. How about yourself?

Congrats on him saying no. But what is ICA? I know when Bill went in the hole last year, I worked with his case manager to get him moved ASAP. She was the only one I could trust. They had him removed within 4 weeks. If you need help with this one, PM me.

yes I need help with it. they wont even move him. it is just a game these people play. Im so sick of it. he scored a level 1 last Oct and they overrode it so hes a level 2 but hes in a level 3 center. Ive fought with DOC and the warden among others and it all comes back to ....Tell Justin to give us names of dealers, I said first of all ....look at your STAFF first then if you want to know who the dealers are just watch Justin if your staff is bright enough they will figure it out....but he wont be labeled a snitch.
yes if you can assist me let me know....pm me

{{{{{{{{Kari}}}}}}}} I am so sorry this is happening to Justin, and to you. Please keep us posted, and I hope things turn around for him soon.

Kari,

Please hang in there. I sent you a PM. {{{{{{{BIG HUGS}}}}}}}


Unfortunately, this is just another part of an addicts life. There's tough love, there's enabling and then there's helping. With loving an addict, we have to find the line between all three and skate on it very carefully. Protecting them from life we can do, but we can not protect them from their own demons, until they face those monsters, their activity will continue beyond the plexiglas and bars of a jail.

Sorry in a philosphical mood today.

Just checking in, I saw boo on Saturday and the program she is in isnt what I thought it was gonna be, its damn near like a prison but a tad bit more relaxed in some ways, she finally copped to what took her there and said she doesnt ever wanna go back, I am hoping she really means it and its not just talk.

Best of Luck MoneyBoi77..


Know what's weird about loving an Addict... Is we want to believe in them so very much!!!!

My fiancee was an addict when I met him. We were together for almost a year and I finally put my foot down. I had decided I was going to leave. When he woke up, he took one look at me and knew what I was going to do. He told me if I stayed he would quit. and he did. He has not touched any drugs or alcohol for 13 months now. I am very proud of him. He had a choice and I am very thankful that he picked me and not the drugs.

Ladyhawk316

Shelby,

What happens when you suffer from both true and false guilt? I like your post, and I know that "false guilt" is very difficult to overcome. I also think that "false guilt" can lead to actions that result in "true guilt." Please post more on that idea if possible. I appreciate your wisdom...

TY BGG its gonna be tough and I hope what she says is true cuz I dont wanna give up 7 years cuz she cant get her act together ya know. I am still comprehending the fact she used crack for so long, I thought she was back on heroin or meth, not that one drug is better than the other but I guess my own addiction issues kept me from seeing stuff.

Just wanted to check in... I have gotten a few letters from my husband and they all seem to sound pretty sincere. I also found some information online that I would like to share. I printed it and sent it to my husband. It is a lot to read but I found it very helpful.

http://www.recoverforever.com/writing/forgottenfivesteps.pdf

lil mommi77,

Thanks for the read. I found it very informative.

I talked to Bill last night. We basically had a huge argument right off the bat, because I wasn't there visiting him. He said he feels like a convenience to me now. I had to explain to him, that I wasn't going to enable him anymore. And though he's not and never will be convenience to me. Everytime I feel we are going back down that road we went down last year, I get scared and shut completely down. He used to ask me last year when he was locked up, why did I love him. I used to say I love you because I do. Which was a cop out. I didn't know why I loved him because I was so co-dependent. Last night I told him, I love him, because I feel safe when I'm with him, because I can laugh when I'm with him, because he is the first person to match me on every level. Of course he interjects and says "that scares you doesn't it?". I told him that it doesn't scare me, I just never have met anyone who fullfills me as much as he does. But I can NEVER EVER go back down the road of addiction. I can't have it in my life.

You know what's weird about loving an addict..... They make us complete in an odd way.

God do they make us feel complete in odd ways.

Just checking in with everyone, I am taking some time for me and going on the dating scene and job hunting as well, so I keep occupied with stuff at home and family now, the working 7 days a week for 5 months did a big number on me, I truly think I am burnt out and need a huge break.

You know what's weird about loving an addict, is you feel so damn guilty about making the right choices. And do you know why we feel so guilty, because it's what we haven't done before.

We have let them manipulate us. We've let them steal from us. We've let them put us into debt. We've given them 3rd and 4th chances. We've let them cheat on us. We've put our lives aside trying to save their lives. We've lost who we are for them.

So when we finally put our foots down, we feel guilty. Not because we don't deserve to put our foots down, but because we feel as if we're betraying them. But all along we have been betraying ourselves for them.

It's weird how we can care for everyone else, but the moment we start caring for ourselves we feel guilty.

Just some thoughts
i wouldnt have felt guilty just he neve would have stopped i was a user of the same drugs i really wouldnt have felt guilty

Hey Everyone Im alive.....just been busy. Justin is back in the hole, because he doesnt want the drugs and I am so proud of him.

Hope all is well with you all

Hey Guys,

I wanted to stop in and give an update. I've been going through some medical tests...and so far every thing looks benign. Still saying my prayers until after all the tests are done. I basically cut myself off from Billy. I couldn't handle his situation and mine at the same time. I know it sounds so selfish...but I couldn't drop this one on him when he is there. I got a letter from him the other day. telling me how much he loved me and still wanted me in his life for the rest of his life. I sat there and cried. So I wrote a long note explaining everything and told him how painful it was for me to be going through all this without him. I told him if he hadn't made the choices he did he could be holding me hands through each and every test. But as it was he was there and I am here. I thought I would get stronger with being without him, instead I find myself needing him more and more everyday.

You know what's weird about loving an addict, we still put them first...

I'm glad your test are comming back good. That is wonderful. I would have done the same thing. He put himself in there.
You know what is weird about loving addict at some point we learn to love ourselfs more!!! I wish you the best..

we do put them first but now is the time to take care of ourselves, that is what I am doing now cuz boo is doing the program she has to do.

AmyLynn,

Thanks for the wishes.. can never have too many of them.

MonkeyBoi,

I wish you the best of luck and your boo too.

Not when dealing with an addict! How are you doing?

ty bbg I need it right now

And when enough is enough - it turns around to be our fault.

I have a friend that i will not longer hang out with, b/c of how bad he's gotten. I tried to have a serious talk with him and he acted like it was all a joke. When i told him that was it, We'd ALWAYS be friends but i wouldn't be there to keep catching him until HE does something about his situation - he turned it all around on me....IT was my fault (and his families) that he does drugs :confused: . Yeah right.

I like the post in the forum, you've gotta let them hit rock bottom. That is so so hard, but sometimes i think you got to. I won't let myself go into the whole or get into any trouble for this friend any longer. It's not worth it when your bailing them out every week - and they know you will, so they keep at it.

Hi all it has been a while since i have posted here. Hope everyone is doing well. I would have to agree you at some point in time HAVE to start putting yourself first....and they have to want a better life for themselves to make it work PERIOD. This i have learned the hard way...like we all have. My friend is about to get out soon and i am like NERVOUS NANCY....I have really been trying to keep my distance because i am not sure he has decided what path he will take upon release and i can't put myself or my son through the destruction and pain anymore...this he knows. ALTHOUGH I still love him but, i won't enable him anymore, this i have promised to myself and HIM!!!! He literally has no where to live when he gets out, no clothes the odds totally stacked against him and will need help, love and support, so it will be hard for me not to get SUCKED in all over again. I just pray like hell for the strength and wish for the best for us all. He has what it takes..... it is DOES HE WANT IT BAD ENOUGH!!!! Only time will tell!!!

LOVE TO ALL!!!!! HANG in their everyone!

JustB and Simplegirl... I wish you both all the strength in the world. I never understood how Billy's parents and family could just throw in the towel on him, until I was there. Addicts take advantage of our kindness.. anyone's kindness for that matter. Sometimes we just have to say enough is enough.

My second tests have come back and luckily I only have cysts. I still have to have a lump removed from my neck, but the serious stuff turned out good.

In my last post I told you guys about the letter I wrote... Well I got a reply from him...I wanted to share parts of it with you as some insight on how an addict really think... and how maybe just how you can tell that they are on the right road.. or who knows maybe he's conning me again...
"Now I meet this abused young woman in A.A.County, who knew. Caught my attention almost immediately. I've controlled her, I've been controlled by her, I've pushed her down, cursed her, pushed her away, pulled her close, put her down, picked her up, made her cry, made her laugh, mentally exhausted her, financially cursed her, spiritually lifeted her, taught her, challenged her...
What I want you to know is you've got me I no longer wish to push you away at all. I know thats hard to believe, hopefully I can show you."

For three years he never cared about what he did to me. It was all about him and his next fix..... I don't if this is a new angle or if he is for real.

Know what's weird about loving an addict.... You never know what to believe

Billy's BabyGirl-
Glad to hear the tests came back ok!!! THATs one positive, with many more to come!!!
As for the letter, i have recently been getting some of the same...as soon as i back off all of a sudden he starts telling me the stuff you have wanted to here for so long....BUT is it true or a way to manipulate you because they will need someone when they get out!!!
IT's all so frustrating to have to second guess everything...even the wonderfull things you die to hear. Mine just recently started talking about us getting married and becoming the person he needs to be and wants to show me that he can and wants to be in my life for a long time and be good!!!! It's exciting to hear, but i have to try to stay focused and now it could all be a con. Not that i don't truely beleive that is what he wants...POSSIBLY, but will he be strong enough to attain it....that's the MILLION DOLLAR question!!!!

MUCH LOVE --- HANG IN THEIR and know you have support here....i know i will surely need it in another month!!!! HAHAH

Simplegirl,

He sure does sound like Billy. Billy is talking about spending the rest of his life with me. And how now he has fallen in love with me. And just like you I pulled back.

I totally understand where you're coming from. You've died to hear or read those words and now that you're getting them, you question it. In my last letter I asked him how he could be so sure about wanting to spend the rest of his life with me...This is what he wrote...
"Yes, I want to spend the rest of my life with you. How can you question that? Could things be much harder? I'm still here. Well locked up but still with you......Quit putting me in hypotheticall situations. If you trully believe I can't handle it, find someone who can. I mean it.. if you are that unsure, decide now, before you allow me back into your life on a full time basis. I love you that much that I'd let you go if you didn't think I could handle any situation. I know my track record shows shit but I'm not the same Bill."

My biggest fear is when he gets out.. and some hard situation comes along and he doesn't feel adequate or feels like he not living up to expectations, he'll go right back to using.

How can you believe it?

Thank you for all the support {{{{{BIG HUGS}}}}}

Know what's weird about loving an addict... Your heart still believes... even if your head doesn't.

Billy's BabyGirl-
Seems they all start to sound the same hugh? Well i hate that he has no family...or should i say none worth contacting and basically noone to go stay with and he won't go to half way house....this i know! Not to mention he thinks all meetings NA or AA are places to find dealers and other dope heads...SO he is on his own...that is scarey! He is worried about how he will adjust once out in the FREE WORLD.....i am too. He has the strength to succeed but will he do it? Can i let him be..... with out tearing my life apart to help him...this i pray for. Not to mention my family would kill me if they knew i was helping him again, they don't even know i write him or go see him from time to time...so i feel alone...like all odds are stacked against me and him. I just do what i can and take care of my child and i and LIVE!
If you ever need to talk, vent, cry, scream or SUPPORT just PM me and i will do what i can girl!!!!

BIG HUGS.....Have a great weekend and take care of YOU!!!!!! Easier said than done hugh?

MUCH LOVE & Prayers we are stronger than we know or than THEY know!!!!
PEACE!!!:p

Hey Gang,

Well another week has gone by and we're getting closer to his sentencing date of Oct 3, 2006. There is a preliminary investigation on 9/20. I went and saw him on Tuesday. It was the first time in about a month because funds have been low and he's an hour away. I told him about the tests coming back okay. Yesterday the doctor called me. It seems on of the six cyst is irregular and she wants me to see an breast surgeon. I know there is probably nothing to worry about. But I'm scared as hell still. During our visit he told me I needed to tell him everything in my letters, that he was a big boy and he could handle it. So I'm debating on telling about seeing the surgeon or waiting until after the tests come back.

When I saw him and even in his last three letters he seems so different. I've rarely seen this part of him. He was locked up last year for 8 months and this side never came out. He is kind and caring. Writing me poetry where as last year I was lucky to get four letters the whole 8 months, I get one every week now. I put one of his poems in the Poetry forum. If you get a chance check it out.

Simplegirl... I hope everything is going well for you. It seems we're in the same situation.. Their last chance....

Know what's weird about loving an addict.... They make addiction seem the norm.. and make the rest of the world look crazy

CONGRATS on the test results...lots of love and prayers your way...you will do/be fine!!!
Glad to hear your visit went well. Glad he is showing so much change and improvement.
I on the other hand am a wreck lately, he is to be getting out in a month and literally has no money, clothes or a place to stay. WHAT TO DO? How can they make it if they have nothing? The places he did have to stay he burned those bridges this last time, and I just can't in good faith bring him into my home with my child if I have doubts about his recovery, and what road he will take. I can't risk possibly losing my son or endangering our welfare, nor can I deal with that kind of stress...it isn't fair to me or my child.
WISH YOU WELL...keep you head up girl!!!
WHAT TO DO????

Simplegirl,

Have him go to Social Services, Salvation Army. These places will give him vouchers for a hotel and help him find a place to live. I understand exactly what you're feeling. My girls and I have talked about when he comes him and we all feel the same way. You want to believe so very much, but the truth is can you? I dunno.

Co-dependency! Its all the way to hell and back for them. I used to work in and herion out pt's clinic. Going over thousand's of records/pt.charts on and off again can last until you bury them.
As for as me I don't believe their is any hope for the hopeless.They have sold their soul to that drug demon. They are living/depending on a breathing/drug machine.
Please I don't want one person writing and telling me about 5% of a trillion that kicked. In addition to; those folks weren't on drugs but a few months or they were literally dying and now they on disability for life. I still hope they quit even though I didn't see a success story.

Get a halfway house for him to go to. Thats what I did and its the best. No one needs to go straight to streets. Its too much freedom all at once. So much temptation. Especially if he has a bout with whatever the streets have to offer.

MonkeyBoi- You're right its your fault. You threw her to the dogs/wolves. You knew what you were doing. You knew the possibilities a woman on the street might face. You should have done like most men find some where for her to stay or family members or something. You could have allowed her a chance to meet another man that would have taken her end. You're no different than the ones who abused her. Your abuse and misuse was just different.

Are halfway houses even safe? I mean is it full of dope users and what not. Don't mean to act egnorant but i really don't know what kind of enviornment it is? Honestly doesn't matter where he is, if he wants it he will find it...RIGHT?
AHHHHHHHHH What to do...stresses me the (bleep) out!

Well since I have no idea what that post directed at me is about, I cant really comment.

I don't know much about halfway houses, since I no longer talk to Boo's soon to be ex hubby, he knows about them and was keeping me informed but now we dont speak so I cant say.

Anita,

I think your remarks are cold and callous. I understand the success rates are minimal, but there are some. To tell Monkeyboi his abuse was just different is the same as your post telling us there is no hope. If there is no hope than why should we help them at all. I mean seriously as a society, why don't we just put all the drug users on an island and let them be the product of their own demise. I mean if the chances of success are so low and not even tough love works or rehabs or even God's will help, what the hell are we wasting all of our time and energy on. The county's money could go for more important things like red light cameras.

I understand about co-dependency. Yes I am very co-dependent. But being co-dependent isn't always a bad thing. Needing someone to hold your hand while you go through a test to see if you have cancer. To bring your spirits up when they break the news to you about having to biopsy. Not a bad thing to need a shoulder. Think we're all co-dependent in some way or another.

As far as success rates. I do believe if a person wants to be clean and sober for themselves it is possible. The road they take to get there is different for each person. It took Bill a second time in jail and for me to throw him out of my house for him to see if he kept going he would be on his own private little island with no one who cares for him. Just a bunch of needle pushers, loving themselves and living for themselves.

May God bless all the users and addicts and with his strength may they find they're way to recovery and soberity.

Very Well said Billy'sBabygirl.. Dont let anyone say that there is no hope cause there is hope for those who want it... I have had alot of addict in and out of my life and the ones who wanted it made it the ones who were not ready for it or want it bad enough just kept on using. All I know is loving an addict it hard and there are times when it is better to walk away then stay!!

Well said billy's babygirl!!!!! We don't need negative people on this thread...if you have nothing positive or nice and supportive to say...GO ELSEWHERE!!!!
WE all share our story's some bad and some positive, either way we are here to listen and help each other and give support. It's not easy loving an addict no matter what the addiction may be...but i hate to give up on people period...they aren't like trash and you just throw them away when your done with them. As long as you yourself stay grounded and know what your boundries are...i don't think there is anything wrong with having a lil FAITH and LOVE !!!!!

Any news on your tests yet Billy's Babygirl?????

Don't feel guilty. As an addict, I can tell you that yall don't do us any favors by enabling us. Standing up and saying no to us is the most loving thing you can do. You can't save us and you can't fix us. We will take you down with us if we can. Not on purpose. It's not about you. It's all about us. We are totally self absorbed. Don't feel bad for wanting a good life. God wants us to be happy. And there's nothing happy about being an addict or with loving one. So take it easy on yourself.:thumbsup:

SO are you saying we should turn our back on them? I do udnerstand the enabling part...i have so learned my lesson (i think) on that one? What do you do when they literally have nothing, or noone? ANY advice would be great!!!!
Thanks for the kind words...

Simplegirl,

I go to the Breast Surgeon on October 16th. Still saying my prayers. Bill has his preliminary investigation tomorrow and court on Oct 3rd.

Slick1.... I used to be an enabler and everytime I feel myself going down that road with him again...even behind bars... I cut off ties and he realizes what he has asked me to do again. I don't know if it's fair to him, but it's a wake up call for both of us. He no longer asks for anything other than my love. He and I both know he has to want to do this on his own. It took for my health to be an issue before I stopped enabling.

Know what's weird about loving an addict even when you turn your back on them... you're still there to listen to them

BBG-well said girlfriend!:thumbsup: If there is no hope, there is no God, because He is hope.

Anita...not sure who in your life has caused you so much pain that you would lash out with it here, but I do hear the pain behind your post. Maybe you meant well, but you are so wrong. I am one of "those people" you speak of, and there are many who felt like you do that have been in my life. If it had been left up to them, I would be dead today. I am not dead, I am alive, and well, in fact thriving because there IS hope for each and every human being on this earth. I am a living testimony that when no one else has hope for the addict, God has hope. He is the One who pulled me thru and saved my life. Addicts are not the only ones who trash their own lives and the lives of their loved ones. Most all of us here on earth cause pain and destruction to others in our lifetimes, sometimes on purpose, sometimes not. But if you have no hope or compassion for the addict, then where can be the hope or compassion for you, or others who are so hurt they would lash out at another? Careful what and who you judge, for as you judge, you shall be judged. No matter the circumstance, no matter the symtoms (ie addiction, depression, whatever) there is always hope. I know I am a minority that has survived addiction, but I am not alone in that recovery. The rooms Bill Wilson started fill up every hour, every day with others just like me.

Slick-well said...enabling is not loving an addict. It is loving our own selfish desires above the love we have for the addict. Funny how that is what addicts are guilty of, eh? Seems we all have the same selfish desires, but different symptoms of that selfishness appear in each of our lives.

I am an addict married to an addict. We are at different places on our path of recovery, but we are both on the same path. There is a fine line that needs to be examined daily, sometimes moment by moment in the choices we make...are we making a selfish choice, or a selfless one? It is the selfless choice my Saviour made that saved a wretch like me from the selfish choices I am prone to make daily...just my :twocents:

Ok let me clear something up, I am a female not a male, boi is a lesbian term, just an fyi and about the post I have no idea what in the world the woman is talking about and where she has any info, seeming I now rarely post and not everyone knows the whole story and knows about me, due to the fact I have learned to become a tad bit more of a private person, so since I have no clue what she is talking about I cant truly reply or be negative about it, just state a tad bit of facts.

Hello my friends!!!!!!!


Sorry i havent been on much. I do have some news to share with you

Justin has been transfered to a theraputic prison, he hates it hes attending group 5-7 hours a day and its hard for him, but think its best for him. I told him be strong and it will all be over soon. The good thing is we have our first family day next month, I am so freaking excited!!!!!!!


Billys, monkey how are you ladies......Miss you all ill be in touch I promise!!!!

Love
Kari

BBG- I will keep you both in my prayers...i know you will pull through all of this.....WE HAVE TOO..Right?
So my news......he was to be released on Oct.12.....however he just got a detainer letter from another county saying the will not offer him timed served and they will be there to pick him up! He may be gone for 6 or more months...my heart sank when i read the letter. Although i was releived a bit because i have been stressing about where he will go. This county is small and the last offer they made him was to go to a restitution home...3 months of therapy of why you are in the situation your in...then the another three months of working off your debt. So he won't be in a jail enviornment and has a possiblity to really help himself and take advantage of the program if he wants to. I know they won't put him in jail...thats to easy for them...this county really tries to rehabilitate repeat offenders. He is a wreck, and i know it is becasue he will be like 6 hours away and truely have no visits even if the offer them. SO i am sad but i guess the MAN ABOVE thinks he has got away with enough and he still has some learning to do.
Keep me posted on you and what happens in court.

LOTS OF LOVE AND PRAYERS YOUR WAY.((((((((((( HUGS))))))))))))))

P.S. IF you like to read get this book...i have been reading it and WOW what an eye opener. "if you want to walk on water...you have to get out of the boat" By John Ortberg.

Kario, glad he's in the program. Bill felt the same way when he started out. But is now a senior member of the community.

Simplegirl.. Of course we do. Bill sent me a letter last week. He could get out next week with time served or go to a halfway house or get 18 months or a max of 8 years. What do I want... I want him to go to a half way house... I live in a very bad area and for him to come home to this would just be futile....

I'll check out the book...

Know what's weird about loving an addict... is that we do... :)

Thats good new Kari and keep us posted.

Hey Gang,

Well Bill goes to court tomorrow. I went and visited him on Saturday. I sat down across from the plexiglass.. He picked up the phone.. He goes.. Baby.. I know what's going to happen on Tuesday... You wanna hear it.... I go of course I do... He said some of it's bad and some of it's very bad... I said.. please just spill it..... He goes... I got six years (long pause as my heart sanked)....suspended. I wanted to reach through the plexiglass and smack the crap out of him.... He's getting 18 months with a provision he finishes his second drug program and goes to the state ordered halfway... how long he spends there is dependent on him and $1500 resitution to his parents... If he messes up in anyway whatsoever he will get the full 18months plus any of the six years. I will be at the sentencing tomorrow. I think this is the best for him. Now he has two big reason to stay clean.. Me and his freedom...


Know what's weird about loving an addict... Learning about tough love

BBG- that is AWESOME!!! God is so good. You will both be in my prayers. It is so good when the decisions are made and you know exactly what you are dealing with.

As for tough love, I hear you:) Know what's weird about loving an addict?.....tiough love ALWAYS works better than enabling them

Congrats BBG on the good news

Well today was the big day. Bill pleaded out. He got 6 years suspended. They dropped all the charges except for the 3rd Buglarly. He got 18 months in the County Detention Center, with the right to modify once he has completed his second program in November to have the court order him to a Halfway House. 2 consectutive terms of 5 years of probation. His dad dropped the restitution and said he wanted his son to focus on his treatment. Which was kind of a shock to me. You see his dad is a retired county police officer and the man scares the hell out of me. But I'm glad they haven't given up hope on him. I talked to his PD afterwards and he should be in the halfway by end of next month. As I sat there and watched him. I noticed how much he has change even in how he carries himself. His PD said he offered him an out and he didn't take it. He said he wanted to get clean and do it the right way. I'm so proud of him.

Well today was the big day. Bill pleaded out. He got 6 years suspended. They dropped all the charges except for the 3rd Buglarly. He got 18 months in the County Detention Center, with the right to modify once he has completed his second program in November to have the court order him to a Halfway House. 2 consectutive terms of 5 years of probation. His dad dropped the restitution and said he wanted his son to focus on his treatment. Which was kind of a shock to me. You see his dad is a retired county police officer and the man scares the hell out of me. But I'm glad they haven't given up hope on him. I talked to his PD afterwards and he should be in the halfway by end of next month. As I sat there and watched him. I noticed how much he has change even in how he carries himself. His PD said he offered him an out and he didn't take it. He said he wanted to get clean and do it the right way. I'm so proud of him.

YAY! :yay: :yay: God is SO GOOD. Congrats BBG!:thumbsup:

Wooohoo congrats

BBG- Congrats, i am so happy for you both! What a weight lifted off your shoulders!!!!!!! Keep us posted on your health PLEASE!

I lost my job on tuesday, so.....say a prayer for me i find something FAST!!!!! My son is sick so much and i miss so much work my boss just about had enough of it... What can i do though, my son comes first. She had it planned though and dropped my insurance before she even let me go.....which means know i can't go have my mamogram done that the DR. ordered for me on Monday.
Gosh things work out in funny ways.......

Take Care and BIG HUGS TO YOU!!!!

Simple, sorry to hear about you losing your job I am in the same boat, positive vibes sent your way.

I feel the pain. Doug and I always would get in fights about his addiction. and when I left him it was just co he could clean up if he wanted me back. But his hole just got deeper; I don't things would of been different if I stayed. It is hard to do the right thing, but looking back the past two years would not of been productive if I stayed with him.

Thanks Monkey ....i will say prayers for you as well. POSITIVE VIBES YOUR WAY!!!!!! :)
Hope everyone is doing well!!!

ty much simple I need it

Simplegirl and Monkeyboi..... My thoughts and prayers are with you both. I hope you both get not just a job but the one you have always wanted. Please hang in there

We have a release date of 6/11/07. Now that's if he doesn't get the halfway house or work release. If he does it will be sooner!!!!!

Congrats BBG on the great news and ty for your thoughts and prayers.

:D BBG- That is wonderful news....how exciting for you and Billy. Sounds like things are starting to work in ya'lls favor......what a relief!!!!
Well i interveiwed with Haliburton yesterday, and i am applying like crazy everywhere so.....hopefully god willing i and Moneky Boi will find something soon.
Well mine gets out tomorrow...i am supposed to call today to make sure the other county still has a detainer to pick him up from state......He wants me to be there with all his stuff early in the morning, because he thinks they will let him out...but if i go to get him...where will i take him once i have him? I am a nervous wreck honestly on what to do.
BBG- did you ever check that book out? Also keep me posted on your tests i know they are around the corner.

MUCH LOVE & HUGS
simplegirl

Simplegirl

Yeah I checked the book out thanks so much.

If you're like me.. and you go pick him up, no matter how much you are so no you can't come home. I will take you anywhere but home.. and even your kids are telling you not to bring him. You will bring him home and then once you come to your senses and have to get him out. At least that is what happened to me in April. It's so easy to fall once you see him. All those great thoughts come back to mind. So decide tonight. If not take him to a hotel for the night for both of you to decide.

Tests are Monday....... I'll let you know

Hey Gang,

Well went to the doctor's yesterday and everything is fine. They want me back in 3 months for a checkup, but don't see a need to worry.

In the mean time with this coming up I went into Shutdown mode with Billy. I haven't seen him in a week, nor did I write. I find it easier to deal with me when I'm not bringing him down. Does that make sense. Anyways I guess I owe him a long letter explaining everything.

Hope all is going well with you guys.

Well BBG...what happened when you took your tests...any results yet?

Well my guy was transferred last thursday and went to court yesterday. He got 6 months in a restitution home for drug/alcohol, then three months of intense supervised probation.....(what is that by the way?) and some other stuff he couldn't remember....So he will be gone for a while, he is now 5 hours from me. Funny thing is they are putting him in this home and he has never ever had a drug charge or failed any probation tests. This charge is for driving with a suspended lic. He just never paid the ticket, never showed to court or probation and after three years of running from them they have had it. So what was a possible $200 dollar ticket is now up to $4,000. NICE HUGH!!! Can we say DUMB ASS!!! Oh well, his spirits are up and says he will do the time and he isn't upset, he screwed them for so long and all the other shit he has done in his life he should be lucky this is all he is getting. He wants me to be happy and just kept thanking me for always being their for him when noone else was. Kind of a bittersweet conversation really. I am upset, but i guess it is finally time for me to move on.....i didn;'t even tell him i loved him, just asked him what he needed and told him to keep his head up.....and he would get through this.

Yeah BBG i am so happy to hear that! I completly understand the "shutting down" mode, I have done that alot lately, by not writting or talking much. He asked me today how i was and i just lied and said "oh i am fine...just great..no worries" Really i am a mess, with no job, and my mamogram on thursday and well just how i will support my son and i. Not to mention with him being so far away and it seeming like we are both pushing each other away. I know there are many who have it so much worse than i do, so i am trying to keep my head up and puch on.
Thanks for the update!!!

LOTS OF LOVE AND HUGS!!
God Bless...

Hi everyone. How is it going? I haven't been here in a while but thought I might come to talk. I have been very busy with work, school, avon, kids, and home. I haven't had a lot of free time for myself let alone my husband. He gripes a lot because I don't write and when I do write he has thrown hissy fits because they are typed or too short. I think he could justify being upset a little more if he wrote me more often. I am lucky to get one letter a week most of the time. Usually he only writes me if I write him. A few weeks ago I found out that I have a tumor on my thyroid and have had to go for a lot of tests. I struggled with how I would explain the situation to him since there is a chance I could have cancer, but with my already busy schedule plus the extra trips to the doctor and hospitals I really had a hard time getting the letter out. You know that isn't something you can just jot down really fast. Anyway, at the same time all of this was happening my husband got himself into trouble and was transferred to Amarillo (which makes me sad because now he is 11 hours away instead of 3). He wrote a letter when he got there and I was able to respond a week later with a letter that told him of the medical problems I am having. Apparently that was not fast enough for him because he called me yesterday from the chaplin's office. He said he had gotten my letter and was worried about me. That is how he got the phone call I think. Anyway so at first I felt really special and cared for but then I realized that is not the only reason why he called me. He told me that before he got my letter he had wrote me a nasty letter because e hadn't heard from me, and he wanted to appologize in advance (before I got it). It took a while for this to sink in you know? It didn't hit me until way after I hung up the phone... how in the heck is he going to write me a nasty letter? I didn't put him in there. I didn't tell him to get strung out on drugs. He treated me like trash before he left but I agreed to rideout his time anyway... "he was on drugs... he didn't mean to hurt me," you know? Now I have had to endure all kinds of stuff by myself (once again). And his selfish butt has the nerve to turn all of this around on me and make me feel like I am not doing enough. I haven't gotten the letter yet but I am sure it was bad for him to feel like he needed to call me like that. How am I supposed to keep convincing myself that he has changed?

I know that was loooooong but I had to vent and I know the pto will understand.

Lil mom,

I got my nasty letter last week. Like you I was going through test for cancer. I found it so hard to deal with him, kids, work and the possibility of cancer, that I didn't write or visit. And like you I got a phone call. This one a rely one though. It was about ignoring the nasty letter and when was I coming to visit. All I kept thinking about, was I know he's trying but this selfish shit has to go. And then I got the letter. It wasn't his worst. Did make me feel guilty as sin though. I don't know if this part of the addict ever changes. But I sure hope it does.

Billy's Baby Girl,
Wow, we have a lot in common. Kinda wierd almost. Anyway, I will probably get the letter today. I am already ticked off that he said that he wrote it to begin with. I have had to deal with the death of a child and my grandfather this year on top of everything else that I have on my plate. I am a freaking mess. I am falling apart out here. I tell him all the time... "write me more... I need you". He isn't listening to me though. In his mind it is all about him and what he is going through. It hurts me to no end to check the mail all week long to find nothing and then when I do get a letter it says stuff like how stressed out he is or please write him more because he needs support. Did he simply ignore me? I love my husband with all my heart but if another man came to me right now and said "come here let me hold you up... you can cry on my shoulder..." I would!! I am not superwoman. I am not invensible. I know he would like to think that because that is how I have always been, but it is my turn to need support. He should be trying to help me the best way that he can. If all he can do is write letters... then I want letters, damn it! I am tired of being tough. He tries to tell me that he has changed but is this how he is going to prove it to me? This is my 3rd bid... I am tired.

Lil Mom,

I'm so sorry for lost. {{{{{Sending Big Hugs}}}}} I know they sound very selfish. When Bill gets like this I try to remember they have all this time on their hands, so their minds are on overdrive. I know it's weird but sometimes I think.. good it serves you right to be worried about me, after all the times I would sit up at night and worry about your dumb a$$. Maybe that's just how I justify it but it works!!!

{{{{{{{{{{{{Billy's Babygirl}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}
I agree, they do have all this time on their hands and also, we do not know exactly what the ones around them are saying that may influence their moods and how they think...from day to day...
Sending you hugs and best wishes especially for your health and better letters from Bill!!! ;)

I went to see Billy yesterday. I wanted to share the letter he wrote to me and read a copying of it to me while I visited.... It's a little long... But so worth it...

"First & foremost it was great to hear from you. In all honesty, it took me for a bit of an emotional ride. It made my heart smile to see 3 different days of writing. It always makes me feel good to know that though I'm outta sight, I'm not outta mind, cause lately I've wondered. Well I'll get to that in a bit, let me answer your letters first.

In the letters you wrote you covered alot of ground. The gist of it was the beauty of our beginning and some pain in our recent past. You say your mind is so analytical and it si but baby, look right in front of you. You're trying to search for another answer because you don't wanna believe whats in your heart or so it seems to me anyways. You said it yourself "You have my mind and heart 100%. You said you ran it over every angle 1000 times and against your better judgement you feel that way. You say you've grown up. I can't tell! I love you, Gosh D$$$$t! Don't you know that I would take back all the things I've done if I could? I wish with all my heart and soul that I could put all that hurt and pain on myself 10 fold if it would ease your heart. But I can't! You ain't the only one growing up. One thing grown ups do is let s$$t go! You say you love me, well look at me for the man I am today. Stop trying to manipulate our relationship, neither one of us are prepared to deal with the possible consequences nor do we want to. You've already said if I hurt you again, you're gone. Thats fine. S$$$, if I hurt you again I'll leave myself. so since you know that, let go and give us an honest chance. Let yourself be happy. Trully let the past go! Let's start over, like newlyweds :) Especially the s$$ part :) For now that consists of an occassional (or frequent) letter and maybe the phone on so I can tell you goodnight.

Now to your next letter. It breaks my very soul to hear you say that you can't find happiness in any aspect of your life. It hurts me even more because I think its cause of me you feel this way. I remember when the thought of me made you smile. I remember when my lips on your made you weak in the knees. How about my arms around you made you feel love, protected, secure and cherished. Will you let me make you feel this way again? More so, will you let yourself feel this way again?

I understand you're reluctance at letting go completely, but if we're to have a chance, you have to. You know how you felt when I wasn't giving you my all. Please don't get back at me by putting me through that. I was in active addiction. Please don't think of me in that state. That's not me and that's not the man you fell in love with.

You asked how it is you can tell me anything? Its because you know you can trust me and not matter what you do or say I'll never judge you. That being said, I have to ask you to embelish on something you shared or should I say started to share with me in your letter. You said you wish you could sit me down and explain it all and that I could hold you and tell you I love you and it'll be okay. No matter what, but your can't even count on that no more. I do love you, and NO Matter What, THAT WILL NOT CHANGE. But you have to be honest with me. I'll never lie to your again, but I refuse to be lied to also. If you do - I'll walk. Our relationship must be based on trust. Whatever you've done, you're doing or however you feel is okay. Do you hear me? Sweetheart! It's okay just talk to me about it. God, I love you so much. Close your eyes, come on do it. Now imagine me smiling with open arms. Come on in and find that comfort again. I love you. What do you mean you can't face me because of the things you've done? What have you done? I'm hear for you if you want me to be. I can't forgive you for what I don't know about and you'll never be able to forgive yourself until you tell me about it and quit hold on to it. You want me tot tell you how to get off your pity party? Well stand up! How do you face yourself? Turn around! Yes it's that simple.

You want me to come home and make it all better, but why should I? I'm not trying to be hurtful just honest. You tell me one thing and do another. You say you'll write and don't. You say you'll visit an don't show. You offer to help and bless me with a few dollars and don't. I'm constantly getting my hopes up, because till recently you've never lied to me, only to get them crushed. I can't take back al lthe lies I told you or the promises I broke while I was getting high like a dumba$$. So if you're trying to show me how it feels, I get it. I get it okay? It hurts bad. Baby, let's me and you stop this cycle and let our love for each other shine through. I love you. If you don't wanna or can't come up, no problem don't tell me you will or you'll try. If you don't wanna or can't find the time to write, no problem, don't tell me you will or you'll try. Yes in all honesty I would love steady visits, mail and a possible phone conversation. I love seeing and hearing from you. But if, right now that's not gonna be possible, please don't play with my heart and tell me what you think I wanna hear. In reality all I wanna hear is the truth. Every breath I take carries the warmth of your love to the core of my soul. I love you and look forward to seeing or hearing from you. Let me know what you are thinking. Bye for now Love Always Bill XOXOX"


If any of you have ever thought is this all worth it? About cheating on him while he's in there.... About punishing him for all the crap they put us through...You need to reread this letter. I now know that I am one very lucky woman...This is the love I have waited all my life for and just because it took so very bad turns to get here, doesn't make any less than perfect.

"You know what's weird about loving an addict"---- They are constantly surprizing us!!!!

BBG- That was a beautiful letter, thanks for sharing. Stay strong and know that it will be if ONE-you let it (and lord we all know how hard that is because of the damage that has been done)...and TWO- If Bill makes the right changes within himself for you two to share a life together. Stay strong and positive girl, sounds like you are on the right path to getting back the man you feel in love with and need in your life. Let it be and let go of the past one day at a time.....Put your faith in yourself, God and Billy and take a deep breath............. and enjoy the ride my dear!!!! NO More self destructing for billy or you!!!!
((((((((((((((((HUGS))))))))))))))))))))
GOD BLESS-

Simplegirl,

Thank you for you kinds words. {{{{{{HUGS}}}}} And you are right I was in self destruct mode. I wrote him a long letter last night explaining everything and asking him to be true to his words about forgiving me. My faith in is God and Bill. We've been through way to much for this not to work out for us.

Well been talking to Billy since Saturday. He said he had forgiven me. I'm not to sure of that. You see I was the one thing he know he could trust and I betrayed that trust. I guess we both have a lot to work on. Today he is on his way to interview with a Halfway House down in St. Mary's County which is about 2 hours south of me. He seems so ready to start a brand new life.

BBG- Keep your head up mama...no negative thoughts. If he said he has forgiven then take him at his word. He has done alot of damage to you, and you have forgiven and stood by him. I am sure he see's how that situation could happen since his head is clear and is willing to move past it. Have faith that he means what he says and ya'll will be happy, don't through road blocks in your way because you are scared of being hurt again. I see myself do that all they time with my man. He is gone for almost 9 mnths-a year now. About to be in a halfway house himself. He told me he noticed i am pulling away and said he couldn't blam me. How could i keep loving and supporting someone who has done nothing but wreck me. I told him that no matter what he will need love, support and encouragment when he gets out and he will have that from me no matter what.
Stay positive and take each day as it comes. Don't look to far into the future...just one day at a time is all we can handle.
MUCH LOVE MAMA!!!!
Take care (((((((((((HUGS)))))))))))))))

I just wanted to post a web site for anyone who's dealing with Meth Addiction.

My husband is an IV meth addict and is currently incarcerated.

This meth abuse discussion forum saved my life one day when I was ready to put a bullet in my head. I was at my wits end with my addict.

www.kci.org (http://www.kci.org)
click on the discussion forum

There are a lot of recovering addicts as well as loved ones. It may help someone.

[quote=NaievNewlywed]saved my life one day when I was ready to put a bullet in my head. I was at my wits end with my addict.quote]

Boy am I relating to these feelings today...not sure who I should aim at tho-he is drivin me up a wall these days. Just when I think he is beginning to figure it out, the addictinve thought prossess kicks back in and he starts talking stupid. I have enought recovery in me to get past it most days, but sometimes (like today) it is more than I want to bear. Thanks for the link

Talked to Billy last night. His lawyer sent the letter to the judge for the halfway house modification and it was approved. His interview down in Southern Maryland went great. He finishes his last program on the 17th and then it's just waiting for a bed to open up. Everything is on the right path, let's just hope and pray so is he.

Talked to Billy last night. His lawyer sent the letter to the judge for the halfway house modification and it was approved. His interview down in Southern Maryland went great. He finishes his last program on the 17th and then it's just waiting for a bed to open up. Everything is on the right path, let's just hope and pray so is he.

Prayers going up as I type, always hoping for the best for you two!!!:thumbsup:

As some here know, I am an addict, married to an addict. He is due home in 2 months, and I am not sure I want to go on with this. I have made andkept some pretty strong boundaries during this last stretch of time we are doing. They have all been for my good. And for the most part, he has respected them. There are still one or two areas that concern me though, and last week we had a fight that was about one of these areas. And, because I refused to let him "bully me" into agreeing with his point of view, it would appear I am now on "punishment". I have not heard frm him thru phone or mail all week. I am just so tired of the manipulative games and immaturity. I am talking to God about whether this time is the final time for me. I have stayed because of a strong coomitment to my vows to my Lord, and because I knew I was not yet to leave him. But today, I am not feeling that so much. Today I am praying and wonering if maybe the time has come that I will let him go. I want peace and sobriety in my life, and he seems to still create strife and drama. And his anger is still a concern, if I am honest.

Not sure why I am posting alll this, and sorry it is so long. For those who wish, please lift me in prayer as I contemplate what, if anythign, I am to do next.

Thanks for listening

Know wht's wierd about loving an addict? Even when you might be done, you still miss what might have been....

Eternal,
Thanks for the prayers.

kingscowgirl,
I wish you the best. I know you are going through a rough decision period. You are torn between your head and devotion to the Lord. Just hang in there.

Here's something that helps me in these times...

"We are pressed on every side by troubles, but we are not crushed and broken. We are perplexed, but we don't give up and quit. We are hunted down, but God never abandons us. We get knocked down, but we get up again and keep going." (2 Corinthians 4:8-9 NLT)

Know what's weird about loving an addict... we just can't give up on them

Hey Gang,

Wow can you believe it's almost Thanksgiving. It kind of makes me sad, yet another year with out him at the table. But we have so much more to be grateful for this year. The judge signed the transportation order yesterday. Which means he can be going to the halfway house anytime now. He's been clean and sober for 8 months today. I know how some will say that's because he's been in jail. Well you're right. But this time he spent was in the Detention Center and nothing gets in there. Last Year he was in DOC and everything gets smuggled in there. He said it was easier to get drugs in DOC than on the streets, the only difference was the price was higher. Anyways...last night I was reminscing with a friend who has stood by us through all of this and she remind me how crazy things were this time last year and how lucky I am this time. I still have my doubts, about his words, I guess that's normal. But there is no doubt about his love....

Have a Great Tuesday

With Billy going to the halfway house he wanted me to get in touch with his parents to get his stuff. So he wrote them a letter asking them to please get in touch with me. His mom called last night. She said she had all of his stuff ready for me. Said she was having a hard time forgiving him, but she knew she had to. She also told me his dad is not doing well at all. On oxygen all the time, has a blood clot in his leg. Can barely make it from the bedroom to the living room with his walker. I sat there and cried. She said she wasn't going to have any contact with Billy, she wasn't ready for that. So tell me, do I tell him about his dad? My heart and soul goes out to him and his family.

With Billy going to the halfway house he wanted me to get in touch with his parents to get his stuff. So he wrote them a letter asking them to please get in touch with me. His mom called last night. She said she had all of his stuff ready for me. Said she was having a hard time forgiving him, but she knew she had to. She also told me his dad is not doing well at all. On oxygen all the time, has a blood clot in his leg. Can barely make it from the bedroom to the living room with his walker. I sat there and cried. She said she wasn't going to have any contact with Billy, she wasn't ready for that. So tell me, do I tell him about his dad? My heart and soul goes out to him and his family.

Hey there girlfriend...sorry you have to deal with that whole "other family" crap...I have it too and it sucks. If it were me, I would tell him, because if you don't and his dad gets worse, he may not have an oportunity to say his "goodbyes". Also, if he finds out you knew and didn't tell him, being an addict, he will find a reason for resentment in that. You say his mom said SHE wasn't ready, and that is ok. Maybe he can just talk to his dad, either on the phone or a letter? It is important to Billy to begin to process all of this...and complete honesty from you will help to establish he can trust you-good or bad...I will be praying for you

Hey there girlfriend...sorry you have to deal with that whole "other family" crap...I have it too and it sucks. If it were me, I would tell him, because if you don't and his dad gets worse, he may not have an oportunity to say his "goodbyes". Also, if he finds out you knew and didn't tell him, being an addict, he will find a reason for resentment in that. You say his mom said SHE wasn't ready, and that is ok. Maybe he can just talk to his dad, either on the phone or a letter? It is important to Billy to begin to process all of this...and complete honesty from you will help to establish he can trust you-good or bad...I will be praying for you

His dad has a stronger resentment towards him. You see he took his dad's pain meds and replaced them with tyenol. Not a smart man, but that what an addict does. I talk to his future counselor at the halfway house. Seems we're on the same page with Billy's treatment, my family and me. When he gets down there we're going to do an intervention. His counselor said he's just waiting on the court order, so I'll get Billy to get his jail counselor to fax it down.

Thanks for all the prayers. It won't be long now until we get to touch and hold each other....

HEY BBG glad to hear things are looking up. Mine hase been in his court ordered halfway house for two weeks now...says it is horrible, possibly worse than state. He is 8 hours away andi don't know wheni will be able to go see him. So i have another 6-12 months togo before allthis is behind him and he faces the REAL WORLD and adjusting to that and needing a place to stay, car, job....you know the drill. Keep me in your prayers i am having a rough time getting a job and dealing with all this stuff we deal with. I keep you in mine always girl! I am so happy things are going in a good direction for you two...
MUCH LOVE MAMA!!!!

Simplegirl,

Your are always in my prayers. I'm sorry that you are so far away from him. Billy asked last night what I thought about him getting a bike when he got out. I told him "You want it, You buy it". Part of being in the halfway house he's going to is he has to pay rent and get a job or he goes back to the jail for 5 years. So I'm really hoping this helps him adjust to the outside world before coming home to us.

I did tell him about his dad last night. I figure it was best to tell him while he was still in the detention center than at the halfway house, so if he felt like relapsing he couldn't. He told me he was glad I did tell him, but next time to please not to.

Hang in there!!!!

Your post had tears in my eyes, thought I do not do any drugs. She has been out of jail 6 days and did herion again becasue random drug testing has not started. Thnaks for heart and mind search post.

dmc

Hey Gang,

Saturday, I went and saw Billy's parents. I haven't seen them since around this time last year. His mom is the sweetest person around. And his dad, just scares me to death, because he was a cop for 30 years. I was so nervous about talking with them. His dad is bed ridden for the most part. But from the moment I walked into their house throughout the hour and half I spent talking with them, they couldn't have put me more at ease and welcomed me into their hearts. His dad hugged me when I first got there, lecture me on being strong, and hugged me when I left. They had a list of things they needed to know from him and things they felt he should know. Though they have cut ties with him, they have desserted him. I went from there to see him. I saw him in a whole different light. I told him, his parents had received the contact letter and it was very possible he would be down at the halfway house by Wednesday, the 22nd. That's just two days way before I can feel his breath, touch him and hug him and kiss him. But if not Wednesday, definitely by next weekend. I'm more afraid for me at this moment then him. I'm so afraid that I will not be strong enough. I have a hard time saying no and even though I have grown alot this past year, I know my feet and heart have to be buried in cement when it comes to him. I promised his dad I would be strong, because I though if there was anyone I didn't want to disappoint it would be him. His mom would understand, but not his dad. Billy confessed Saturday his was afraid too. He knows he's moving on to the next step of his recovery and being influence by the outside world would be a hard temptation. I guess it's good that he is seeing his obstacles. I just hope we both can avoid and pass around them.

Billy'sBabygirl- hon, I am pulling for both of you as you begin this new chapter of your lives... I know soon you will be in each other's arms, and pray that this time, he is able to pull away from the addiction and stay right there with you and a better life!!! :)

BBG- So glad to hear things are going well for you both. Hope you have a wonderfull thanksgiving and keep your head up!
MUCH LOVE TO ALL!!!!

Hey Gang :)

Well had two great visit with him this past weekend. Sunday night he was so excited about getting transferred this week, I don't think he could hold still. While I was there I was chatting with a grandma, a granddaughter (2yrs old) and her mommy. Come to find out Billy and her daddy worked together and were in the same program. I heard the same from the grandma. This was her last chance with him. I can't tell you how many times each of us in here have said that and read that as well. What I also heard over and over was "At least he's safe". How many times have you said that? I know I said a zillion times.

But on a really high point!!!!!!!!! He's being transferred as I type this!!! That means just two more days before I can touch him, kiss him, feel his breathe, hug him. And just two to four more weeks before we get to love each other!!! I can't wait. Now I'm the one who is jumping in her seat!!!!


His counselor just called... HE'S THERE!!!!!!!!

Went to drop off his clothes last night. An hour and half drive down there. Just to wait two hours for them to get back from a meeting. The lady was suppose to meet me at 8:30 pm (I got there at 8:15 pm) but she didn't show up until 10:00 pm. A part of me was fuming, but as she drove into the complex, I saw the van behind her. I got to see him, touch him, kiss him and feel his breath. It was worth the wait. I reminded myself there is a purpose for everything and me having to wait two hours was worth the five minutes I got to spend with him, that I wouldn't have had she been on time. I drove the hour and half home on such a high note. He looked so good. Isn't that weird, after being in jail for 7 months I think this is the best I've seen him.

BBG- CONGRATS girl that is so great, i got excited for you just reading it!!! I can't wait to hear when my man can get a visit, even though it is 7-8 hours away and they only let you have like 3 hour visits no matter how far you have traveled. I will make that drive with a close friend of his and visit with him. He is already in level two and trying to hang in their. He said the rules are crazy and that everyone in their has snitched on someone to avoid jail time, and since he has never had a drug/alchohol charge they aren't real sure how to do a program for him. I was like...tell them you want to sit in on the DRUG portion of the program!!! Anywho, i hardly ever get letters from him, not sure why really. But i pray daily he will make it through this and get his life back on track.
Keep us posted and again CONGRATS i am so happy for you both!!!
MUCH LOVE and HUGS-

Simplegirl,

Billy stopped writing letters there for a bit. He's off of his 48 hrs locked down today, so I should be getting a call tonight. Our first call without going through Correctional Billings *YEAH*.

7-8hrs away what a long drive. I would have to make that a weekend thing.

You guys are in my prayers!!!!!

BBG- what is up with the correctional billing...he has only called once...he gets only one call a week. So i accepted it and then the next day i got a call saying something about getting a statement in the mail about accepting a collect call afrom a correctional institution and other fees??? do you know what that is all about? I didn't check to see what the call will cost because i knew no matter what i would accept it because i so needed to hear his voice.
So happy for you and Billy! And yes, when i go visit i will be making a weekend of it and staying the night up their!!!

TAKE CARE and BIG HUGS!!!!!!!!

Simplegirl,

Call Correctional Billings... they have a website. They will be able to help you out. You may have to be on hold for a bit. But hang in there.

I saw Billy yesterday for our first visit at the halfway house. It was 2hrs. We were able to go out back to the picinic tables and talk with having to be monitored by a guard and best of all there was not plexiglass in between us. We still had to behave!!!

But I have something really cool to share with you guys. Billy has access to the internet. I told him about this place and Friday he read through here. He said he wanted to start posting in here as well..... So the next part is for my sweety!!!!

Baby,

You know you have always had my heart. Now you have my mind. There will be a few doubts, but that's only natural. Not only am I on your side, pulling for you with your recovery but so is everyone else in PTO. You are my sunshine and my ray of light. Please keep up the good work and I will talk to you tonight. All my love!!!!!!!

About two weeks ago, I made a promise to Billy's dad to stay strong not only for me but also for Billy. His dad said he hope I can do it. I told I would just for him.

Billy called on Monday to tell me his dad had past away. My heart fell for him. It is so hard to be supportitve and not be there with him. I told him I wish I could hold all night long.

After I hung up the phone I looked up and again made my promise to his dad.


So what's my biggest fear.. is not that Billy is going to relapse, is that I'm not going to be strong enough to say no. This is where all my doubts have been playing. Not in his words, but my actions when I hear his words.

I no longer questions my love for him or his love for me. Instead I question my strength. And maybe that's what I have been questioning this whole time. Everytime I ran because he asked for something, everytime I ran because I was afraid and couldn't handle the situation. Maybe it was all because I didn't think I was strong enough to handle the situation so I avoided it at all costs.

Well I know I don't plan on running anymore. My heart, mind and body is with him... and if I need to be borrow strength I'll look up and remember my promise.

Hey Gang,

Well this has been such a great sounding place for me. I went and saw Billy again yesterday. I don't see how 2 hours can go by just as fast as the 20 minutes visits. I really do enjoy him in every aspect. He is growing so much. It was weird hearing him talk about "We" instead of "I". How he had responsibilities, his sponsor was due for a meeting after my visit. I don't know why on earth God would put two totally disfunctional people together but I'm so glad he did. For the first time in our relationship, I know the plans we are making are more than just "pipedreams". We take each day and try not to make promises to each other that are never going to happen. I can't say I will never be co-dependent on him, because I think co-dependency has different aspects. There's being co-dependent to make yourself happy, and then there's being co-dependent to make a life with each other. Billy made several comments yesterday about his situation and he said he thought a lot of the things he was dealing with are what normal people go through, not just addicts, he choosed an different and wrong way to handle them. Isn't that's what life is all about choices and how we handle each bump in the road.

Anyways, Hope everyone is having a good holiday season.

Hey Gang,

It's my weekly post in here. Well had a good visit with Billy on Friday night. And had some issue with some of the things he said. But it ended on a nice note. What I had issue with requires some back ground information on me. So we'll start there. And then let me know if any of you have experience this or not...

Me, I grow up in a phyiscally and emotionally abusive home. I married into it. I have been responsible since I was 7. I used to cook Sunday morning breakfast (eggs, bacon, pancakes, coffee, toast and juice) for a family of 7, ever since I was 7. If I failed to do so I would pay a price for my mistakes. I have been told that I could do better than my older siblings, this is where my co-dependency issues stem from. Always trying to please to avoid consequences. So now at the age of 40, I'm sick of being responsible. I have always had a good job, taken care of my two daughters by myself with no source of child support. I took care of Billy when he was going through all of his issues. Stood beside him did what had to be done to avoid disasterous consequences. So now I'm planning on taking probably one of the biggest steps in my life and quitting my job to go back to school for 6 months to get some certifications under my belt to increase not only my income, but my sense of self worth.

Okay now you know the jest of me.

When we were talking Friday night, I heard alot of what we could get when I quit my job and what we wanted. Not once did I hear him say and I'll help out. I know this was implied. But it needed to be said. I know he is focusing on his recovery and I want him to commit to this 110%, however, if he is also focus on us in the long range, then he needs to understand, I'm not the same person I was a year ago who would take on the responsibility of caring for another. I don't mind him being semi-dependent on me, but I have two girls who are fully dependent on me... And to be honest I'm tired of everyone just assuming because of my good nature that I will do. Yes it costs a half of tank of gas and five hours out of my time to go see him. And I would do that no matter what, but don't sit there and tell me you would not ask your ex-wife to bring your kids down to see you because she can't afford it. Her family has money. Even his mom is helping her out. His kids are far better off than mine and he's worried about her? And I'm so glad she is proud of him. That seemed to matter more to him, than what I have been saying and doing along. What is wrong with this picture? Also he called three times the visit before the last (the day of the visit) to have me bring stuff down. The last visit he called to see if I could come down and then was surprise to see me there, because he didn't check to see if it was approved.

I know a lot of this is just me being selfish, however..............I'm tired of biting my tongue to please everyone. He says he's change but his words and actions aren't saying that. I think he's still to complacent with me. I know he doesn't mean to take advantage of me, but he is. I'm not running away this time. I just need to know how to get it through his thick skull, that even "sure things" needs an effort made towards them...

Any thoughts?

You know what weird about an addict.... their mindset!!!

You are absolutely right that action speaks louder than words. You need to put your foot down and nip this in the bud, otherwise it will only get worse. I have some experience with this with my ex..he is/was and addict..I met him as he was going to a halfway house..I got to take him out on pass every Sat..but it was always can you bring me this or that..and nothing was ever good enough. he left me and married someone else..we got back together and he ended up back in jail..stood by him for a bit but then he got sick, not that I wasnt going to stand by his side because I was going to..his issue was I was not sending enough money to him..I am a single parent with a teenage boy and the father barely helps. he didnt care, then I found out I am a diabetic and he didnt care he was still thinking of himself..I finally said enough is enough and left him..

Antzchick,

I hear where you are coming from. I'm just hoping against hope on this. I haven't lost my faith yet. But hopefully if he's reading these than maybe just maybe he'll see it's not just me.

He tried calling me today at work, said the home lines where block. MCI put a block on my phone and they couldn't tell me why. I tried calling down there three times and no one answered the phone. Not that he would get the message anyways. But I did get the block cleared up.

He think's I'm giving him ultimatuems, when in fact I'm just telling him what I can handle. It's his choice to take it anyway he chooses.

Antzchick,

I hear where you are coming from. I'm just hoping against hope on this. I haven't lost my faith yet. But hopefully if he's reading these than maybe just maybe he'll see it's not just me.

He tried calling me today at work, said the home lines where block. MCI put a block on my phone and they couldn't tell me why. I tried calling down there three times and no one answered the phone. Not that he would get the message anyways. But I did get the block cleared up.

He think's I'm giving him ultimatuems, when in fact I'm just telling him what I can handle. It's his choice to take it anyway he chooses.

Hey BBG, good to hear/see things are progressing. As you know I am married to and am an addict myself. What you are experiencing is that YOU are setting and keeping BOUNDARIES, and Billy is still ADJUSTING to them. Addicts are manipulators at heart, it is almost like breathing. And that takes time and consistancy to change. Addicts are also self centered and have been this way most of their lives. Again, this takes time to reprogram the behavior. When you love an addict, you do the dance of co-dependancy, and there is a very fine line between it and healthy choices sometimes. I encourage you to work your own 12 step program thru CODA or maybe Celebrate Recovery (a christ centered 12 step group). These things are part of the healing but need to happen one day at a time, sometimes even one minute at a time. It is important for you to also have a support group as you journey this with Billy. It will help you to keep that promise to his dad, and more importantly, to yourself. I am proud of the progress you are making in helping yourself make healthier choices in this relationship, it shows :thumbsup: I know from first hand experience that for me, I needed my own coda 12 steps to help me deal with my addict hubbie. Being an addict myself and working that side of the 12 steps was not enough to help me learn how to be in a relationship with an addict. They are two very different sides of the fence. I needed to also admit that hubbie was my new drug of choice and that as it was, my life had become unmanageable. You have taken these steps, you just need to keep putting one foot in front of the other, and support will help you do that. Just my :twocents:

Hoping your holidays are blessed! Hugs to you and yours and PM anytime if you need to

Hey Gang,

I started this post to share my feelings and what I had been going through for the past four years. I thought, we're all thinking these things, why not put them out there. Or maybe we're not all thinking the same things and in that case I would have to do some readjusting in my thoughts. You guys have been so supportative in my journey, I don't know what I would have done with out this forum. If I could be helped or just help one person not feel so alone on this journey, then all this would have been worth it.

Recently, it was brought to my attention, that I had made myself out to be an angel or a saint-like in here. Make no mistakes, I am no angel, not even close. I have a co-dependent personality. Which comes with some control freak issues (explains my fear of flying).

Four years ago this great man, who is smart, intelligent and cute walked into my life, when I was desperately seeking companionship. He is no different than anyone of else. We all have triggers that can be set off at a moments notice. Mine triggers are the feeling of being taking advantage and the lack of funds with either of these two I turn in a mean, spiteful, jealous control freak. His triggers, after fours years, I think it's become me (sigh), it caused him to continue being an addict. But if you ever saw him out on the street you would never know just by looking at him.

These posts were never meant to be totally about him. They were/are supposed to be about feelings of someone who has walked along side him. Whether these feelings were right or wrong or whether the person who was walking along side was right or wrong it made no difference, they were/are inner most feelings.... a coping machanism. And should be interrupted that away. Did I make him an addict, no, did I escalate it. I guess in some ways I did. The first year while he laid on my couch and I enjoyed the comfort of having someone there for me all the time. I took full advantage of his addiction. Was it a control thing, I don't think so, though it could have been interrupted that way. It was more of a comfort thing. But I allowed it continue, so no I didn't help him out in anyway. I didn't help him out for the next two years, but giving him money, my car, and all the answers. Do I blame myself for his continued addiction, yeah, parts of me feel guilty as sin, for not kicking him out the first day and only thinking of my inner needs. But I never forced him to do what did, nor did I stop it. You see I'm no angel. When I finally stood up to him, it broke my heart in more ways than I could ever write in here. Over the fours, I too have learned. I have learned to manipulate, lie, cheat and steal to get by. I have mastered this technic. I have at some point gone against all my morales and values. I am no angel.

So you see there is always two sides to every story. And I guess at some point we all are addicted to something or someone. A hard lesson learned.

So to you sir, if I have caused you any embarrassment, by these postings, please accept my most humblest apologies.

To anyone reading these posts, May God Bless your loved ones and you. May he continue to give each and everyone the strength we need to carry one, to make the right decisions, where addiction has taken control. May each of us always, remember to look inside of a person, before making judgement upon them, because they have been labelled.

Know what's weird about loving an addict??? It's knowing when to let the pieces fall and knowing not to go and pick them up. Just letting them lay there like they're suppose to. Not everything has to be a complete puzzle.

Hey BBG, great post...I wanted to comment on a few things, so I am gonna do it insude your quote, ok? You have come a longway baby, you just keep on keepin on...luv ya!

Hey Gang,

Recently, it was brought to my attention, that I had made myself out to be an angel or a saint-like in here. Make no mistakes, I am no angel, not even close. I have a co-dependent personality. Which comes with some control freak issues (explains my fear of flying). Totally relate to this, it is who i am, but then codependants ARE addicts, we just have people as our drug of choice

His triggers, after fours years, I think it's become me (sigh), it caused him to continue being an addict. But if you ever saw him out on the street you would never know just by looking at him. Most addicts I know are not soemone you could "just look at" to know they are addicts. Most are "normal" everyday people who have an addiction that eventually takes over their life. I mean, most kids don't grow up and say "I wanna be an addict when I get bigger". As for the comment about you causing him to continue to be an addict, let me say this...He was an addict when you met him, he will be an addict until the day he dies-YOU are POWERLESS over that. If anyone says otherwise, it is a feeble attempt to manipulate you into feeling guillty. I say this because I am an addict/codependant, married to an addict/codependant. The two almost always go hand in hand. The weakness in each of us play off others weaknesses and we begin to dance a dance that quickly becomes unhealthy. This said, BY NO MEANS do you have enough control or power over another human being to "cause them to continue" to be an addict. It is their life, their choice.

These posts were never meant to be totally about him. I personally have never read them as being just about him, I read them as being about you, and your journey of loving an addict. They were/are supposed to be about feelings of someone who has walked along side him. Whether these feelings were right or wrong or whether the person who was walking along side was right or wrong it made no difference, they were/are inner most feelings.... a coping machanism. Well said darlin :thumbsup: And should be interrupted that away. Did I make him an addict, no, did I escalate it. I guess in some ways I did. The first year while he laid on my couch and I enjoyed the comfort of having someone there for me all the time. I took full advantage of his addiction. Was it a control thing, I don't think so, though it could have been interrupted that way. It was more of a comfort thing. But I allowed it continue, so no I didn't help him out in anyway. I didn't help him out for the next two years, but giving him money, my car, and all the answers. Actions of a codependant mind darlin, nothing more, nothing less. Do I blame myself for his continued addiction, yeah, parts of me feel guilty as sin, for not kicking him out the first day and only thinking of my inner needs. Hurting people hurt people, your sicknesses played off each other...trust and believe that you were not the only one in this "thinking of thier inner needs". As an addict/codependant, I can honestly say that I have been guilty of this behavior as well, and it has taken me a long time to separate what was truly my responsiblities for what went wrong, and what were my addicts. There is a fine line that you cannot cross in owning what is not yours to own. My hubbie and I battle this part of the healing process on a regular basis because the very nature of addictive thinking tried to manipulate the other one into taking responsibility for the addict behavior. I have lived this on both sides of the fence, as have most of us. This is because, as I said addictive/codependant behaviors usualyy walk hand in hand with each other. Bottom line-we do the best we can with what we have in the moment of each situation. Hindsight is 20/20 but here and now is sometimes blinded by people, places and things. But I never forced him to do what did, nor did I stop it. Well said sweetie-you never had the power to accomplish this. You see I'm no angel. When I finally stood up to him, it broke my heart in more ways than I could ever write in here. It is the ultimate act of loving an addict to finally stand up to them and say honestly-I love you but your behavior is unacceptable and I cannot dance this dance anymore. It is one of the msot heartbreaking things a person can endure. Over the fours, I too have learned. I have learned to manipulate, lie, cheat and steal to get by. I have mastered this technic. I have at some point gone against all my morales and values. I am no angel. Amen, sista, amen! Again, coda behavior and addictive behavior is usulayy one and the same. It is recognizing these things and having a desire to change them, and get back on track that makes you successful. There is no shame in looking in the mirror of our own actions/inactions to seek change for ourselves to become a healthier, happier human being. I believe it is part of the healing process.

So you see there is always two sides to every story. And I guess at some point we all are addicted to something or someone. A hard lesson learned. You are seriously prechin here girl! It is a day by day journey, and really, each and everone on the planet has a bit of this stuff in them. Some of us just let it get unmanageable in our lives.

So to you sir, if I have caused you any embarrassment, by these postings, please accept my most humblest apologies. Not sure if this comment is meant for Billy (I remember something about him being here now-welcome Billy) but if it is, any emarassment caused would be at his own hand, based on his own choices and actions. As you said earlier, what you have shared here at PTO is meant to help you heal, and help others who walk the difficult path of loving an addict learn from your journey. ANYONE who tries to get you to feel guilty for the feelings shared from your heart is realyy just not wanting to look in the mirror themselves, and is dancing the blame/shame dance with you. Just my :twocents: And Billy, if it was not you, I apologize, and say to whomever feels this, that your feelings are your feelings, I can't say that you did not feel these things, but it is still just BBG's truths posted here.

To anyone reading these posts, May God Bless your loved ones and you. May he continue to give each and everyone the strength we need to carry one, to make the right decisions, where addiction has taken control. May each of us always, remember to look inside of a person, before making judgement upon them, because they have been labelled. Blessings right back atcha girlfriend. Let us also have courage to look inside ourselves into the mirrors of our souls so that if we are guilty of hurtful behavior, we see it so we can change it. Change isn't change until yu change something. It all begins with looking inside of ourselves first.

Sorry this got so long, but I had a burning desire to share, because for me, I read that codependant woulda/shoulda/coulda stuff all thru this post, and the bottom line is just this...we are each POWELESS over our ADDICTS, or anyone else for that matter. Only another person has the ability to change and make choices for themselves-we just don't have it like that! God alone can change a man's heart, as codependants, to think otherwise is actualy pretty damn arrogant...just my own experiences in life

Blessings

Know what's weird about loving an addict??? It's knowing when to let the pieces fall and knowing not to go and pick them up. Just letting them lay there like they're suppose to. Not everything has to be a complete puzzle.

Hey BBG- how are you? How are things with billy? I was just reading the posts and catching up, i haven't posted in a while. I still haven't gone to visit yet, i haven't seen him in 4 months. He has started calling me once a week....i enjoy it but..... HELLO i have no job still. I don't know, i barely ever write him, not much to say really. I get maybe a letter a week from him....i feel very distant from it all....which as we know is good and sometimes bad. Anyway, hope you are good...let me know. PM me if you wish!!!

LOTS OF LOVE AND HUGS TO EVERYONE HERE!!!!! :)

You have a right to love the person of your choice. No one has the right ask you to love their addiction. If you can handle it, fine. If you can't, the relationship won't go far. You have to be the one to draw the line if needed, and above all, not to feel guilty for doing so.

Loving someone with an addiction is one area where "unconditional love" will simply mess up both of your heads. Keep your conditions reasonable, but st them. For your own sake.

hightek669

hightek669 Damn Thats Soo True When My Man Used Drugsss I Let Him Abuse And Hit Me And Treat Me Like If I Was Nothing To Him And Just Didnt Kow How To Help Him Cuz He Was Soo Into His Meth And Then It Just Got Soo Bad One Day And He Got Busted For Sales And Transporting Drugs And Hes Doing 7 Years In Crc And Now That Its Been Three Years Hes Been Locked Up I Went To Go See Him And I Forgive But I Defently Know I Deserve A Better Man Because I Have A Future Going For My Self And He Even Tells Me If U Want To Be With Me I Love U But If U Find U Someone Else One Day And I Get Out I Wont Hate U Ill Wish U The Best And Hope That He Doesnt Hurt U The Way I Did Because I Know U Deserve Some One Treat U Like A Princess !!!! What Drugs Can Do To U !!!

Hey Gang,

Well the holidays are over and spent alone. Even though there were opportunities for us to see each other. He had other plans for us.

Have you ever thought.... I have accepted all their downfalls and devices... and now that they are getting help, are they still going to be able to accept mine. Seriously, I'm in my 40's and there is very little chance of me changing. Don't get me wrong, I believe there is always room for personal growth. But I am who I am. And those same parts that attracted the addict to me still remain. What if you don't grow at the same pace as them?

I haven't heard from him in a week. Makes you wonder.....

It goes back to leaving those pieces lie

BBG, I hope that things get better for you... you know you are always in my thoughts...
I am hoping for a much better year for you than ever before!!!!!!!!!!! Hugs!!

Thanks Eternal...

Well another week has come and gone... It's so hard to let him go. I still can't figure out who I am more mad at him or me. Him for doing this crap to me all over again, or for myself for allowing it to happen. I should know by now.

But oh well yet another life lessoned learned. On another side of the coin, I have decide to quit my job, pack up the kids and move to the beach. I figure I can go back to school, to get that all important paper and away from all the memories here. I know it sounds like I'm running away, not really, just looking for a fresh start with no drama in it. The girls and I both love the beach. So with any luck by the second week of March we will be laying in the sun.

You are so not running away.....OK........... and living by the beach will be wonderful for you and the kiddos. New fresh start and lots of time to think and get your life headed in the direction you want it to go. If things were meant to work out between you and Billy they will!!! Stay strong and take care of you and the kids, put YOURSELF first for once...its hard i know but you have to do it. You are always in my prayers and i am sending good karma your way...this year will be great for you.
As for me, i have yet to see him and we seem to have drifted, he writes maybe 2 times a month...if that. Same for me though, i just haven't had much to say. He seems to be doing really well, struggling with his past demons, but he honestly seems like he may finally be getting somewhere and have a good chance at a nice life for himself. Once he gets out of the rehab it will be so hard for him...I just need to stay strong, and stand my ground....i give in because i feel sorry for him, not because he is asking of me.
OH well...please keep us posted on you and how your doing. Oh and i got a job last week after three months!!!!!

Thought i would share this with Ya'll....

Ready and willing
In every experience of disillusionment is the small seed of hope. In every disappointment is the initial stirring of determination.
That small tinge of hope, which makes the disillusionment possible, will grow if you let it.
From utter despair can come brilliant success.
What sets you back also sets the stage for you to move forward.
What appears completely hopeless gives you more reason than ever to hope.
The darkness gives your light a space in which it can be seen, and made use of, and appreciated, and truly valued.
The challenges give you fertile territory in which to make a positive difference and a valuable contribution.
No matter what is in your past, you now have the opportunity to create the future of your choice.
Everything depends on which way you decide to look, and in which direction you make the commitment to move.
This very moment can be the greatest opportunity you've ever known.
When you are ready and willing, the possibilities are yours to follow.
-- Ralph Marston


(((((((((((((((((((((HUGS))))))))))))))))))))))

HI everyone.I just wanted to share me with all of you.I am not an addict however I am a survivor of addiction.It runs in my family and I fell in love with a man who became addicted to crack.I will make this short...A few months past and I thought i was going crazy, my car never had gas, money always seemed to diasapear from my purse,items from my home wort something slowly started to disapear.I confronted these issues and my fiance told me i was crazy, i must of put them some where or miscalculated.I found a pipe in my bathroom and asked him what it was.He said weed.I didnt question it.I found out i was pregnant a week later got a call at work that he had tried to commit suicide.He then confessed about his addiction and that he would change blah blah blah...It didnt change he went to detox on a friday while i was in the hospital having problem with the pregnancy..came home monday and died wed morning.(sept 03)He died from a crack induced asthma attack and a heart attack at the age of 24.I was 6 and half mo pregnant with his son.Addiction took my son's father and he will grow up never being able to know his Dad.The moral here is if they are living there is hope for change.Even if u give up on the addict, dont give up hope for change.

Simplegirl,

Congrats on the new job. I wish you the very best of luck. Your poem made me cry. It made me cry because hope was the one thing we had going for us. I think somewhere along the lines we just gave up on each other.

I miss him so much. I still haven't heard from him and to be honest I have text him some very mean text messages. I just can't believe this is the same guy that wrote me all those great letters, telling me how much he loved me just to let me go without a word. Maybe we both changed and not in a together sort of away. Maybe our whole relationship was built on his addiction and now there is nothing for either of us. I don't think I have ever known him when he wasn't addicted to something. Maybe that was the thread that kept us hanging on. Apart of me wants to run down there, but that would only make a scene and what good would come out of that. Apart of me wants to crawl under the covers and wish the last four years never happened. But that won't happened. They did happen and I did learn to laugh with him. I learned what it felt like to be held and to feel the love he had for me through his tender arms wrapped around me. I keep asking myself do I miss him because he's not here or do I miss him because we shared so much. I lost his trust and he lost mine. Trust is vital in any relationship. He said he couldn't stand being labeled as an addict. He's no addict, he's a survivorlist. He uses any means to survive and to get what he wants at the moment. He's part of the X-generation, the generation that thinks the world owes them something. And when they don't get it, they resort to other means. Was I another means to the end or just a passage through? Did he truly love me and I blow it? Or did we just grow up and found out we had no need for the other? Too many questions that are unanswered? Sorry one of the things he loved and hated about me, the analytical part.

So we're moving to Florida in about seven weeks. A fresh start, a new life, will my demons follow me, probably. I'm an enabler, I like taking care of people, strays and whatever else. But I will be where it's 80 degrees and not in the teens. The girls are so excited.

Meldun, I am so sorry for your lost. Every day tell your son what a great person his dad was. Addicts are great people. They are so smart and they are people person. Bring him up to be the man his dad would have been proud of. Best of luck.

My prayers and best wishes are with the both of you!!!

Hey Gang,

Wow twice in the same week for me here. Billy came to me in my dream last night. He sat on my bed and spoke to me. What he said I can't remember, but what I do remember is how calm and relax I felt as I layed there with him speaking to me. I MISS HIM SO MUCH. I haven't heard from him in almost a month and to honest I feel so lost without him being a part of my life.

Tell me how someone could write these words:
"You asked how it is you can tell me anything? Its because you know you can trust me and not matter what you do or say I'll never judge you. That being said, I have to ask you to embelish on something you shared or should I say started to share with me in your letter. You said you wish you could sit me down and explain it all and that I could hold you and tell you I love you and it'll be okay. No matter what, but your can't even count on that no more. I do love you, and NO Matter What, THAT WILL NOT CHANGE."

And two months later you don't even hear from them. Is this part of recovery. Was he just saying these things to me?

I do and always have loved him.

Sorry just needed to cry out loud.

Aw BBG-sending you much love and lots of hugs, as well as many prayers. Yes, this is part of recovery in that as an addict Billy may not do well with the changes you have made to become healthier and less of an enabler. Also, IF his recovery is solid, it does change him and possibly his needs in a relationship. The other side of that coin is that he could be messing up and too ashamed to admit it to himself or to you. Whatever the reasons he has for not contacting you, know it is not because he did not love you. Addicts do love us as they say, it is themselves they struggle to love. His no contact only says that he cannot talk to you where he is at TODAY- and for an addict it is a daily repreive or struggle. It is not a commentary on who you are/were in his life or how he feels/felt about you. I know it is hard, but try not to take the no contact personally-it is a common thing in a relationship as recovery progresses for the addict. Remember, your God loves you more than anything, and whatever the final outcome in this chapter of your life is, God has a perfect plan for YOU, and it is for good and not evil. For you, each day, beginning today needs to become a "one day at a time" mentality, a one step at a time. God has promised to be a light unto your feet and to guide you each step of the way-your part is to TRUST Him to do that, no matter what it looks or feels like. Easy to say, hard to walk out. You have grown in Him so much and I know you will be ok. Until the pain heals, know you are loved and in my prayers...PM anytime if you need

abundant blessings my friend :)

BBG- nice to finally hear from you. Flordia sounds great, i have family there!!! As for everything you wrote, our lives sound so similair...at least them men portion of it!!!! I have been holding back myself in fear that once he is recovered, he won't need me and "our" relationship was based on just that....his NEED! I don't think i can stand another heart break from him, i know i can't and it isn't fair to put my son through that self agony! IS it FEAR...hell yeah it is. He has his own fears too, like letting me down and himself, and his addiction. Oh mama what can i say, i so wish you could have what you wanted, but the big man above apparently thinks you need and deserve more, so he is sending you on this path. I am scared to death to start dating and get into a great healthy relationship out of fear for when he returns i will be faced with everything i haven't delt with or gotten over...so here i sit alone and waiting after four long years...WHY???? I feel as though i will never find anyone i will connect with like him, i am willing to be strong and struggle...but why should i settle for that when i could have so much more!!! I am a caretaker too, i think we all are, or we wouldn't be here in this forum or all in similair situations with addicts. Sometimes i just want to scream, years ago i would have never put up with the shit i have in the past 6 years. But i have been hurt, and mowed over so many times that it has made me weak and open for that i guess. WHAT will it take to get 'ME" back...somehow we lose ourselves helping/loving addicts, and it just needs to stop!!!
Sorry i went on a rampage of thoughts there. Back to you...i am so happy for you and it will be hard, but you have us here inthe forum and your children to get you through this. Take one day at a time, do look into your future as it "with out billy" Look at it as a new beginning for you and the kids and great things to come. You may meet a man that sweeps you off your feet in the first month!!!! Let it happen, you deserve to be treated well....REMEMBER that!!! Stop sacrifcing all of you for half of someone!!!

LOVE ya girl!!! PM me anytime. BIG HUGS!!!!!!!!!!!!!:p

Hey Simplegirl,

We surely do have similiar thoughts and experiences.

Another week and not a word from Bill. As it's getting closer to us moving, I'm starting to get scared. It's funny Bill said He didn't think I could do this by myself. Well I start packing within a couple of weeks. My last day at work is on the 15th. We have to be out of the apartment on the 31st of March. So much has transpired in the last month. Things Bill and I both thought would have never happened.

My ex-husband was homeless around christmas, that care-taker in me let him in the house. Bill was not happy about this, but if I could speak to him right now I would tell him I kicked the sorry piece of work out once again. It's just me and the girls.

I do wish Bill was here. Or I could speak with him or read one of his sweet letters. I'm so scared, but I know what's ahead of me I have to do. And maybe God wants me to do this part on my own, but I sure do wish Bill was going with us. I miss him so very much.

Damn, I'm rambling again.

Wanna know what's weird about loving an addict... is you never really get over loving them.....

Hey BBG-I am feelin you...Hubby got out on Jan 11 and it was good for the most part until last week. Now he is out there again, and I am left wondering WTF:eek: We had a couple of little beefs, and one ongoing one about his family (there is no love lost on either side, and his sister has made that very clear). He was saying all the right things, and we were back on track (I thought) and then BAM! the hammer drops again-he is out doin his thng, telling me its all good, he doesn't wanna be doin it and he will get it together. Thing is, I ain't even mad at him, which is new for me. I am just tired. I got divorce papers but am not sure I am really ready to fill them out. He is bustin our dreams again so I am giving myself time to process it all and not knee-jerk react like I used too. I am trying to wait for this storm to play out completely before deciding what I will do about it. For now, he is not with me, and I am sad for him and for us. I am staying busy and I do not feel bad or guilty about any of it-this time it is all him and I feel like I will be ok, however it plays out. I am trying to leave it all in God's Hand, cuz He is much better at dealing with this than I am.

Know what's wierd about loving an addict-it hurts you more when they hurt themselves than it does when they hurt you...:(

Kingscowgirl,

Boy do I know those feelings.... Another week it's been a month now since I heard from him. I want to write him at the center, but a part of me says if he's doing better, will I just throw a wrench in on his recovery. For whatever reason he decided to abandon me yet again, I could forgive. As much as he has forgiven me. We have been through so much stuff. But this time, after the anger, I have turned numb. Like Simplegirl, I don't even want to date, it seems I attract those in need. And the only one my heart will ever belong to is him. So hold on to those divorce papers. See where God is directing you. I saw this somewhere in an email and it has become my motto. "Sorrow looks down, worry looks around, but Faith Looks Up"... So here to looking up and knowing he has a master plan for all of us. Hang in there and pm anytime...

HUGS!!!!

Know what's weird about loving an addict --- they are constantly testing our faith in God and them

2/15/07

Hey Gang,

Well today is my b-day and my last day at work. I'm heading south. It won't be long until the girls and I are in sunny Florida.

Still haven't heard from Billy. Miss him so much. But I guess it just wasn't meant to be.

As so as I get settle down there, I'll log in and let you all know how I'm doing.

Take care and thank all of you for your support of the years!!!!

BBG-hugs and love girlfriend! I know God will carry you thru. I am going thru it too...got the papers and praying on when/if to file them :( . Trying to let God direct me in each step. Keep your head up darlin cuz you are TOO BLESSED TO BE STRESSED! Think about all that God has for you-more than you can think or imagine!!!:D :D

Hey GANG,

Welll I did it I quit my job. Now I'm just waiting on some money to come through and we're off. I started packing this weekend. I had hidden all memories of Bill away. Away from my eyes, my heart and my soul. But as I was going through things, I came across them. I couldn't resist but rereading his letters. It made me so sad and depress. How could we live so much and just leave it without a word. Damn I know I made some mistakes, but so did he. I hate playing the tic for tack game. So I won't we both were wrong. But just to leave it without a word.... something is not right.

Kingscowgirl... hang on to those divorce papers just a bit longer.... please make sure of what you are doing. Sometimes I really question the strength God has given me. To be so strong and independent.. and yet be a co-depedent personality....how is that possible.... But please make sure you are strong enough to give those papers...or
just tuck the away some place safe...HUGS!!!!

You know what's weird about loving an addict.. is you never get over losing them.. either to drugs or life....

you know both myself and my baby were addict's both addicted to crack he was in jail when i met him last year and i was addicted to crack and he knew it and told me if i could get staight he and I could be together so I straightened out my life not only for myself but for my baby becuz believe me I lost alot of things becuz of that shit and so did he

Hey All,

Well a month until we move.. I still haven't heard from Bill. I miss him so damn much. I read his letters over and over again. I want to call down there and see how he is doing but I'm so afraid of rejection. I'm so lost and confused on what to do. I don't want to leave the state with out saying goodbye. You know we had dreams for Florida. But now they're just my dreams....

So this is my thought.. I'm making a cd for him. I'm gonna send it to him... The very first song is a song he told me to listen to back in October "Love Is"... that's what we had a perfect love...

How do you get over loving an addict?

Hey All,


How do you get over loving an addict?

You don't sweetie, you just get PAST loving them. Stop torturing yourself by reading those letters. I gave all of mine back to hubby so he can read and re-read them to see the crap he spewed. What is your expectation in creating and sending the CD? Are you somehow hoping against hope he will "realize" the error of his ways and come running back to you? BBG, I have been there, done that and I am telling you it only leads to further pain and frustration.
I decided this weekend that I am so much more valuable than all of the crap he gives me. You are too! Billy has no idea and may never understand your worth, but him not getting it does not mean you are not valueable. Start acting valuable and move forward with YOUR plans for peace and happiness...I know that is my plan...

Kingscowgirl,

Okay you're right.. of course I'm expecting him to see the error of his ways and come running back to me.. It's that co-dependent thing. But in the same token I can't give back the letters.. They are all about a time when everything was crazy as hell and I was such in love. About a time I laughed almost daily. I miss him and maybe I'm just having a hard time getting past him or maybe it wasn't the co-dependency, but my heart that kept us together......... It was one of the most unhealthy relationships I have been in.. but in the same token... It was one of the best. He knows me like no one else... And I the same.. We could read each other thoughts and talk about anything.... Maybe I'm not ready to get past this.. maybe I don't want to... I used to tell him I was torn between my heart and my head... something just never change... But not wanting to do some things and knowing you have too is the hardest steps in one's life.... The past is to be in the past.. Today is supposed to be lived and tomorrow is for dreams.

Well it's Monday. I had a miss call from his number. So I texted it back telling him it was okay to call. Instead a friend from the house called me back.

It seems Mr. Bill is back in county detention. He messed up. Tell me how do you stay clean for so long with only two months to go and waste it and now face five years.

It also seems Mr. Bill was making nice with several of the girls in the house.

Damn it, I'm so mad at him right now. But I'm also so glad I have continued on with my plans of moving. Just three more weeks and we'll be in Daytona... Hopefully it will help me in resisting any temptation that I might have to get in touch with him.

You know what's weird about loving an addict..... It's so damn hard!!!!

BBG- So sorry to hear that about Billy, damn that sucks. But in a way i am glad, this may have given you the little push you need to say goodbye and move forward with your llife. You will find someone who treats you like you need and want to be treated, it may not be Billy but it will be a new person and new memories and good times. Surely you must keep your heart open to that possibility!!! No one is saying replace those memories, thats what they are their for ...to remember. Just don't let them haunt you and keep you from finding and enjoying happiness. Your holding on to what was, what could have been and not seeing what it is NOW. He has made some bad choices and is still doing so, don't let that kill you inside anymore girl. take yourself, brush yourself off, and get ready for a great new adventure with the girls in Daytona. Easier said than done i know, but you must do this for yoursefl and girls!!!!!
Mine is about to get out in less than two months and i am already getting nervous about it. I haven't seen him in over 6 months and i haven't written in a month. I have been so busy with my new job and my son being so ill i haven't had time to do anything else. He understands, but he also has no where to go when he gets out and is starting to get scared about it!!!! I just can't keep enabling him....He must do this on his own this time.....

PM me if you need to chat! Stay strong mama, you will and can get through and over this!!!!
MUCH LOVE AND HUGS!!!!!! Keep in touch!

Hey Gang,

Well I made it. I made my move we are now in Sunny FLA. It's so amazing to me how strong I really am.. For an extermely co-dependent person... I have no one to rely on down. And maybe that was the whole purpose in this, who knows. I still miss Billy. He will always be in my heart even though we can never be together. For the first time in my life I have put myself even above my children. At first I felt guily, but all those years coming in last made me see that if I took care of me, my girls would be provided for emotionally. They love it down here. They know how I still feel. And they are dealing with their own demons, as their dad got locked up a week before we moved. They had a hard time not saying goodbye to him but said it was typical of him..

Anyways hope all is going well for everyone

Hey Billys

Your in FL now huh? thats awesome! I havent been around much, but send me a message and we can catch up. Things are going well for justin and I and I cant wait to get him home with me. Hows things with you...
please send me as PM so we can chat soon.

Everyone take care
Kari

Hey All,

Well today is Billy's Birthday!!!!! It's weird how I can move a thousand miles away from him and yet still miss him so much. There is a Billy's Tap and Grill right down the street. And what's even more ironic is there is a company called the same as the last job he held before he went away. What have I learned. I learned that I labelled him. I labelled him as an addict. Did it really make a different if he was an addict, a decent guy, a hutsler, a conartist, or just a normal person. What matter was I felt in my heart for him. There is this final seen in a Sex and the City eposide where Mr Big says "In the end you just want to be with the one who makes you laugh". The only person who had me laughing geniunely laughing was Billy. I miss him deeply.

So where I do go from here. The beach, the new job and anything else that will keep my mind away from him for a few hours a day. And maybe one day I'll look back and see the reason for us not being together. But not right now.

You know it's funny you think of someone and you pray that you hear from them. And when the letter arrives in the mailbox you begin to shake and cry. You're afraid to open it. Not knowing what to expect. But something makes you open the letter and as you read the first the sentence, you cry even harder because it's the words you thought you would never hear again. They're okay and they still want to talk to you.

Look I didn't wake up one day and say I want to be in love with an addict, no more did he wake up one day and say I want to be an addict. There's a whole lot of crap you have to go through on both aspects. We have to deal with all the crap and they have to deal with themselves.

Problem is not loving an addict once you have.

Anyways got that letter from Bill asking once again to take him back. I know some with say you have got to be kidding me. But the heart wants what it wants, so I wrote a 8 page letter to him.

I don't know where this road is taking either of us, but I do know I want to be there with him. I want to laugh again. I want someone who knows me before I even open my mouth. I want someone to corner me in the kitchen when I'm throwing one of my tempertantums until I laugh. I want someone who knows that worrying is my biggest issue. And Billy knew all this right from the start. I don't know how but he did.

Anyways. Just needed to write

Billy'sBabygirl,
I've been reading a few of your posts and this last one gave me the chills. It is so hard fighting what the heart wants and you want to feel good again. Loving an addict can be incredibly painful and I hope that you both can find peace and happiness, whether it is together or on your own. I'm sorry, I don't know about his time or what type of treatment he has gotten in there and I will go back and look. It really doesn't matter, what does matter is your happiness and if you feel you get it with him, then perhaps you two are meant to be together.

Okay, I've just read the whole thing and I have a much better picture. My suggestion, obviously take it for what it is, be crystal clear with him and yourself what your expectations are. I don't know about his honesty (I know addicts will manipulate and lie to get whatever they want), but try and get the past cleared up so you can move on. I am a sap and a sucker when it comes to our friend and I am terrible about holding either one of us accountable to his actions. Be strong, be clear and be careful. I hope you both can find the love and strength that you need to get through this time. ((Hugs))

Hi ladies - After reading your posts, I can identify what you are going through. My husband is incarcerated and he is an addict. I am also. I am the type of person that will do anyting for someone. I love my husband and what is getting me through all this pain that I have, is I am working a 12-step program so I will not get back into the craziness. I am a huge caretaker and working the al-anon program really works. It would be great for you to get involved (my opinion) and eventually will clear up what is happening in your relationship with the addict. I'm sorry I am not good with words - but if you take care of yourself - you are more likley to be able to help others as well. Does that make any sense at all???

Stay strong sister. You are on the right path and YOU SHOULD BE PROUD OF YOURSELF! You are being an excellent example to your girls. Well done.

Hey All,

I wish some of you were on line right now. I know this is probably not the place for me to posting this... but this has been my journal for far too long.

I haven't heard from Billy since I got the letter on the 16th. What I did get today was the shock of my life.

I got a notice from Vinelink. Billy has escaped. Yes ESCAPED... my heart and head are going in so many directions. WTF was he thinking. Did my contacting him have anything to do with it.. OMG... OML....

Please pray for his safety. Please pray they will find him alive and unharmed. Please pray he doesn't do anything else stupid. PLEASE PRAY!!!!

Hey, I'm really sorry to hear this. Above all, you must not blame yourself. You are not responsible for his choices. Do not second guess yourself. Please....

Some form of support group can be very helpful in this sort of situation. I have probably mentioned Alanon before--one can find them anywhere. But it could just as well be a church group or any group of people who get together for mutual support. Please....try to find one. You need it right now, and more importantly, you deserve it.

Every good wish to you.

Dave,

Thank you for the advice. I am looking into alanon here. Not much of a support group since I'm in town.

Still no word on him or from him. If he's a creature of habit. I should be home searching the streets.... I just pray for his safety.

I just hope everything works out okay for you both. Right now, you need first and foremost to look after yourself. If he's in trouble and you lose it, what good can either of you be to the other? So be good to yourself, and don't ever let anybody try to blame you for what's been going on.

Well Vinelink lied. He didn't escape... He got released. I had to call the county to find this out. Which just makes me even more po'd because I bought his crap all over again. Here I was worried that he had done something awful. Still haven't heard from him. I guess that should be my sign, huh?

Honey I think that it will take alot of time to heal for a love gone wrong but when it is love with an addict it is a different set of rules. It is hard to learn to love you for who you are when you are not loving someone with an addiction. It is takes time to feel like yourself. If you even remember what you use to feel before this ride. I would not change anything about loving my ex, everything I went through has made me who I am today and I would not change that for anything(except the weight) but any way time does heal things you will look at things so different.

When I start to date my Bf now I was so afraid no matter what, I was worried that he would be an addict all so when he called me drunk for the 1st time I tried to stop seeing him and he made me talk about what was wrong and that is when it hit me not everyone has a problem and can go out drink and not let it get out of control. I'm rambling sorry.

Just know that we are here for you.

You're the only one who can decide but I'd certainly consider it a sign.

LONG time no talk- How are you lady? Where are your thoughts at now with Billy?
Guess what? Mine is about to get out this Friday....unless they make him stay in town for the supervised probation stuff. Am i nervous? NOPE.... not anymore, of course we all know that will change when i get a call for a ride or to tell me he is in H-TOWN!!! Wish me luck, i have been so strong these past 9 months and i hope i can stay that way and keep taking care of me and the kiddo and not worry to death about him and his poor decisions all the time. I think he has a really good chance of making it this time, and i also know the last thing he needs is to be in a relationship. He needs to focus on him and his children and getting his life back and adapting to the REAL WORLD!!!
Fill me in on you and what is going on with you and the girls!!

HANG in there your strong!!!
BIG HUGS (((((((((((( :) )))))))))))))

Simplegirl,

There is not a day that goes by when I don't think of him. When the phone rings and it's an unknown name, unknown number, I think for a split second that it could be him. But I know in my heart, that no matter how much I loved/Love him, it's best for both of us that it's not him. When he enters my dreams now, I know he is thinking about me. We always had that connection. He would enter my dreams and then he would be there when I woke up. So now I just consider he is thinking about me. The girls are doing fine adjusting to life down here.

I also came to the conclusion that everyone has a Billy, my sis has a guy who steals from her and she still loves him. A friend has a lady friend who only cares for him when he is doing well, but he still loves her. A girlfriend has a man who she loves, but he does nothing for her. I wish I understood why we fell for the ones we do.

I wish you all the strength in the world. Be strong and know that I'm right there in thought catching you should you fall.

You're so right we all do have a Billy. I know that mine is my kids father, he is addict and there is nothing anyone can do for him. He is sober now at least that is what he says. He has made such a mess of his life. But My life has gone on.
It took me years to really let go of him and love that was killing me, When I did I went for someone just like him that is how I come to be on PTO we did not last long cause he was not the one for me.
I have a man now that is the most wonderful man ever. He has shown what it is to be loved and to love someone back.
Girls hang in there even in the darkest time you are strong enough to pull your self out..
I'm so glad that you are moving forward with your life and that the girls are doing well.

So tell me why there are days that I sit here and cry because I miss him so much. I never thought I could be without him. Here I am misisng him and he doesn't even care. But it doesn't make the pain go away. I know it will take time, but it's the time that has me crying. I'm serving a sentence for a crime I didn't committ.

Hey Honey, I know you are suffering, but it is a process and you will get through. You will have your good days and bad, and sometimes good hours and bad. You will be ok. You are greiving for your loss. Accept it for what it is. I still cry at times. It takes awhile. If you need me, I'm here for you. Anytime! It get easier. Each day the pain hurts a little less.You'll be ok.

You know everyone tells me to forget him. To throw out his stuff and move on. I can't. I don't know why, but I can't!!! There are days that I really wish I could. And it's not like I haven't tried. He was never physically abusive, and not even emotionally abusive. He was an addict and I allowed myself to fall for all of his cons. At any point I could have stopped, but I didn't. Just like I haven't stopped loving him.

All it took was to hear his voice. The first time in 6months and things about him that I had forgotten all came back to me. His tats... the way he smiled at me.

I'm so confused. Again the heart and the head thing.

He told me how he has been cleaned since he got released. I think this has been the longest time for him.

My heart needs him.

I know Dave, the sign, damn signs!!!!

Hey Billy's! You do what you have to do. It is your decision and only yours. The only thing that bothers me that you said was that he hasn't been emotionally abusive. Yes, he has. You mention allowing yourself to fall for all his cons. That is emotional abuse. You just don't see it that way at this time. You are blaming yourself for something that he did to you. Don't blame yourself that "you fell for his cons". That is something that he did to you. Not your fault. They are masters at what they do, believe me, I had the King of the Cons! That was as bad as the physical part of the abuse that I had to take. I hope that if you take him back that he has changed for your sake. Each time I went through it, and it happened alot, he seemed to perfect his schemes. I guess he had to. I kept him hoppin though, coming up with new and unusual ones! In the end, as I look back, I knew all along that he really didn't love me, just didn't want to see it. Was busy blaming it on the drugs. Anyway, I'm not trying to change your mind, just want you to be careful. Unfortunately you will have to keep one step ahead. If and when he does get over on you again, please don't blame yourself. Like I said before, it's not your fault, it's his. Good luck. Oh, and by the way, I've changed my name. Can you guess who I am?! PM me if you need me.

Okay well this has been an interesting month. He contacted me and told me he was in a very bad place and wanted out. I told him, if he got out I would help. I was headed home for dad's b-day. Got home and drove out to find him not knowing where to look, needless to say I didn't find him. No sooner did I get home and he calls, he moved out and is living with some other friends. I fly back up there the following weekend, risking everything I have started to build down here. Just to find out that you really can't go home. I still don't trust him and his cons are still good. I still love him with all my heart and I don't think that will ever change. He will always be the love of my life. But instead of being control by him and his drug of choice I will be using him as a measuring tool. I know that may sound unfair to all the men who will come after him. But I really don't ever want to go back there. He knows that I will still do just about anything for him. Even tried, but we all have our limits and my are even more shorter now than ever before.

So what have a learned? I have learned, that no matter how much you love someone, sometimes, loving them is just not enough for either of you.

So what have a learned? I have learned, that no matter how much you love someone, sometimes, loving them is just not enough for either of you.

This is so true...I may always love Stan but that doesn't mean that I have to put up with his crap, Stan may always love me but that doesn't mean that he will ever stop using.

You know he still calls me and I still talk to him.... A part of me misses him so very much. A part of me loves him so very much... Bill is a dreamer and we all love to dream. I guess I kept hoping and maybe still am that one day those dreams will come through for us. If they do, then they do. But I know deep in my soul that when it comes to him, I haven't change, I will still give him my very last cent if it makes him happy. That really isn't a way to live. When he is around, I find happiness in making him happy. It's the only time I'm really co-dependent. It's weird how certain people can bring out certain personality traits in us. Some bring out the good in us, others bring out the bad in us. Are we all prone to these instances? Is this somewhat like what an addict goes through in making the decision to continue to use? Anyways I'm just starting to ramble on now...

You know he still calls me and I still talk to him.... A part of me misses him so very much. A part of me loves him so very much... Bill is a dreamer and we all love to dream. I guess I kept hoping and maybe still am that one day those dreams will come through for us. If they do, then they do. But I know deep in my soul that when it comes to him, I haven't change, I will still give him my very last cent if it makes him happy. That really isn't a way to live. When he is around, I find happiness in making him happy. It's the only time I'm really co-dependent. It's weird how certain people can bring out certain personality traits in us. Some bring out the good in us, others bring out the bad in us. Are we all prone to these instances? Is this somewhat like what an addict goes through in making the decision to continue to use? Anyways I'm just starting to ramble on now...

Stan is a dreamer too. IMO, some people bring out my co-dependence much more then others I have recently tried to "help" a co-worker that is a recovering addict and it was then that I realized that I had the problem. He needed this and that from the store, a ride to the doctors, ect... So I not only took him to the doctors but stayed in the room with him to answer questions and find out what was going on. Now he is a single guy that is the owners son so I went to help him and took over his responsibilities, he didn't keep track of his appointments I did, he needs more medication I got it and the list goes on. Then I realized that I am my worst problem, my codependency had me taking over this mans life and this is a man that I barely know and what I do know of him I don't like. People that are well and do things for themselves I can let them take care of their business. People that are in "need" I try to rescue even if they don't need it or even want it.

I still love Stan and want the best for him but now I want the best for me too. I have to do what is best for me and let him live with his "demons" then maybe just maybe he will be the man that God intended for him to be and not this childlike addict. Please PM me if you want to.
Lucy

This is all sooo true. I am going through the co-dependant addiction myself. Only my man isn't addicted to drugs, hes addicted to selling them. He's never done any type of drugs or alcohol but he is now doing 8 years on a delivery charge. I feel very guilty for putting my foot down now but he obviously doesn't care about me or himself. I've found NO help for someone with his type of addiction but I STRONGLY feel that it is an addiction. He simply cannot stop selling and this isn't his first trip to prison. Anyone know if anybody else even recognizes this as an addiction?

You know what's weird about loving an addict, is you feel so damn guilty about making the right choices. And do you know why we feel so guilty, because it's what we haven't done before.

We have let them manipulate us. We've let them steal from us. We've let them put us into debt. We've given them 3rd and 4th chances. We've let them cheat on us. We've put our lives aside trying to save their lives. We've lost who we are for them.

So when we finally put our foots down, we feel guilty. Not because we don't deserve to put our foots down, but because we feel as if we're betraying them. But all along we have been betraying ourselves for them.

It's weird how we can care for everyone else, but the moment we start caring for ourselves we feel guilty.

Just some thoughts

Hi and I am addicted to Gambling...I have destroyed my relationship with my husband, my family, my friends and my employer because of this addiction. You are not to blame...You might only find out that you are a co-dependant type of a person....I know for many years I was not only an addict, but I was co-depending my ex-husband with his gambling addiction.

For us to all heal we must have God in our lives and we as addicts must admit our faults to ourselves, to God and to anyone we have harmed along the way. There is anger and there is resentment and to fully forgive we must let go....There are ways to do this...Write a letter that you will never send to the person that has WRONGED you, tell him/her what they have done and let it out! Put a chair in the middle of the room and talk to the person and tell them your hurts, your anger and your frustration. The addict (myself) has to make amends with who we have wronged. I have asked God to forgive me and I know he has forgiven me, but do I really FEEL that he has? Only if I have let go of my anger and resentment too. Addiction occur when behaviors start to become excessive. Our brain is saying, "this is good;we should do it again" when it isn't....Addiction has a specific definition: you are unable to stop when you want to, despite being aware of the adverse consequences! For sooooo long that was me...Did it take me getting into "legal trouble" to finally wake me up? Yes it did and I am thankful I confessed to my employer about my stealing and unfortunately I must go before the judge for my punishment, but I am no longer afraid of that....My guilt of years of this addiction is gone! You don't have to feel guilty of your actions...

God Bless,
Stephanie

This is all sooo true. I am going through the co-dependant addiction myself. Only my man isn't addicted to drugs, hes addicted to selling them. He's never done any type of drugs or alcohol but he is now doing 8 years on a delivery charge. I feel very guilty for putting my foot down now but he obviously doesn't care about me or himself. I've found NO help for someone with his type of addiction but I STRONGLY feel that it is an addiction. He simply cannot stop selling and this isn't his first trip to prison. Anyone know if anybody else even recognizes this as an addiction?

Hi there, I would like to just give an opinion after reading this, I believe your man is "Addicted" to selling them...Your man doesn't have an "addiction" to drugs or alcohol just the selling of them and by selling them he makes $ and probably a lot of $ which gives him the "better things in life". If anything, he is feeding the addiction to others? Does that make since? I quoted in my previous thread about Addiction and it is just possible that your man is unable to stop when he wants to dispite the aware of the adverse conseuqences......Which falls under Addiction......

Take Care,
Steph

Right..is very addicted to selling them. He didn't make that much money..he has nothing..not even a place to live. He's spent all his money trying to continiously get himself out of jail. I wish there was more help for him than just prison. I've never heard of any kind of help other than when they completely hit rock bottom they are going to be forced to stop. I just want to stop him before he gets 30-40 years in prison. I just don't know what to do

These postrings have been very comforting to me as I thought I was the only one who loved an addict. My husband had an addiction to cocaine,weed,pills...u name it. And i stuck by him,gave him money,fed him,let him live here and do his drugs here and what did he do in return nothing. I told him that his going to prison may have been divine intervention because he was on his way out the door and if his addiction didn't kill him, the streets would have. He says now that he has a clear head he sees why I was the way I was toward him and he said thanx...and he is actually glad he has a clear head for once. So I am still standing by him and his 2 year bid and we'll see what happens when he comes home! Thanx for letting me vent this out a little.

i haven't had this problem.....YET

Natali227

My prayers are with you. I wish you both the success and the strength you will need to get through this. Since you lived with it, then you know his words, his cons and his weakness. You know when he is sincere and when you just wish and hope his is being sincere. Wishing and hoping will get you right back here. Trust your instincts!!!!

Best of Luck!!!!

I know I act better towards him than I am towards myself. I always found myself making excuses for him and his addiction. Always bending the rules. Its exhusting. You just want to feel normal (although whats normal).

I don't know what's normal anymore... But I do know what I can live with and what I can live with out.. and maybe one day my heart and head will agree on everything!!!

Is it possible for someone to change after they have been the same way for years? Do you think time in prison can change someone? I haven't personally seen it for myself, so I was wondering if someone else has.

I don't know if people really change. I think they modify their behavior at times. But I think we are born a certain way and we can bend it here and there but the behavior is still in us. It just takes a strong willed person to keep that change in effect. Its like I quit smoking about 7 years ago, and there isn't a day that doesn't go by that I don't think about it. So did I really change my behavior or modify it? Cause the desire to smoke is still there.

I think zoezoe is right. I don't think we ever really change. We just modify our behaviors and actions. And sometimes we all fall victims to those same desires. Zoezoe, congrats on the 7 years of no smoking, wish I could, but I know I don't have the will power to do it now. I did modify my eating habits 4 years ago. I was carb junkie.. taking in about 3000 grams a day. I modify my eating habits and have been able to keep those little buggers down to 300 grams..

I think we are all so prone to the same behaviors as addicts are, we just don't act upon those impulses.

I know Billy modify his behavior when he was around me. Knowing I didn't approve nor could live with his addictions. I also know the minute my back was turned, he was sticking a needle up his arm or popping some kind of pill.

So no people don't change they just adapt to the situation.

Thank you so much for the posts. I'm so happy for you that you stopped smoking. When I was younger I tried almost ever drug including crack. For some reason I never got addicted to anything. I do feel people are born with an "addiction" personality. Does that sound right?

It's so hard for me to understand my baby when he says he just can't stop. When he was with me he would not "smoke" at all. As soon as I turned my back or stopped babysitting him he would start again. He would be so depressed after. It hurts me so much because I'm watching him kill himself. He would sleep out in the streets sometimes and then comes back and cry about how he needs help and for me not to turn my back on him. He is in prison now and in a way I am happy he is. Because for once he can take a break from it. I HOPE he can start fresh when he gets out.

Any suggestions?

Yes, I believe people are born with addictive personalities. I think thats the reason one person can do drugs/alcohol once in a while and be fine. Then another person does something just once and they are hooked. Its probably a combo of genetics/envirionment. The trick is to find out who is or isn't. If they could discover a gene or blood test to discover who has the predisposition for addiction it would save a lot of heart break for a lot of people out there:)

sarita,

My only suggestion is to trust your instincts... I was so glad when Billy got locked up, not because I thought he would come out clean, but because for just a little bit he was safe!!! Not out on the streets, no chance of ODing, a warm place to rest his head, and food in his tummy.

You just got to trust your gut. You'll know your limit when you get there. We all have limits and they are all different.

I'm always here to listen, if you need to cry, vent or even laugh at something stupid he did.

I so feel the same way. I am at peace knowing he's safe. I wish there was something out there that would just make him quit. Thank you for the shoulder to lean on!

i feel the same

in a way, i'm also glad that my bf went to jail. of course i miss him and its rough not having him around 24/7 especially when im upset or need someone to talk to.. but im just glad that he's in a place that he can't do any drugs. i know he's not on anything or trying to buy anything. so i'm content knowing he's clean.

as for people changing... i think people CAN change, but only if they want to. if they are doing it to make other people happy, it won't work. someone has got to have a lot of willpower to change. especially if they have or had an addiction (HAD by meaning they're in jail so they have no choice except not to do it) once they get out of jail, i think they really need to keep themselves occupied and try not to think of the drug that obviously got them in a lot of trouble and put in jail.

my bf is in jail because of drugs and he always complains about how bored he is or how everything is so uncomfortable and he can never get a good nights sleep. so all i can hope for is that this whole experience is going to teach him a lesson and when he gets out, he won't touch anything by fear of going back to jail.

:) I understand exactly what you said Im in a way happy because hopefully its the begginning of the end of Richards addiction to alcohol. I wanna believe it is the real truth, will be when he comes home ! I pray for all who are dealing with addiction and their loved ones out here.

Wow, I started this so I could deal and get information. Now three or four years later, I'm without him. And I still haven't figured out how to deal with him or without him. How do you get over loving someone who you cared for in away that you could never care for another. Face it they were/are dependent on us. They came to us seeking answers and we gave them the shelter they needed. And now that they don't need your shelter they leave like the little baby bird leaving the nest. Except this time you know they are not coming back. But as you stare across the room, in the crowd, you see those eyes.... the same eyes you fell in love with, only it's on someone else's face and your heart breaks all over again.

You know what's weird about loving an addict... YOU NEVER NEVER EVER GET OVER LOVING THEM. THEY ARE THERE IN EVERY SONG, EVERY CORNER YOU TURN.

Wow, I started this so I could deal and get information. Now three or four years later, I'm without him. And I still haven't figured out how to deal with him or without him. How do you get over loving someone who you cared for in away that you could never care for another. Face it they were/are dependent on us. They came to us seeking answers and we gave them the shelter they needed. And now that they don't need your shelter they leave like the little baby bird leaving the nest. Except this time you know they are not coming back. But as you stare across the room, in the crowd, you see those eyes.... the same eyes you fell in love with, only it's on someone else's face and your heart breaks all over again.

You know what's weird about loving an addict... YOU NEVER NEVER EVER GET OVER LOVING THEM. THEY ARE THERE IN EVERY SONG, EVERY CORNER YOU TURN.

That is so true you just kind of learn to go on with out them. I really think that the only thing that saved me was that he made me hate him. That is was saved me and there is more cause we have kids and he never grew up the pity that I felt comes and goes. He is an addict and he is making him self mentally ill.

Thanks for all the insight on this. I am a recovering alcoholic. I have been clean for years now. I quit knowing it was time to make the change in my life. Now years later I am in a relationship where he is addicted to alcohol and has been for some time now. I have been through all the lies and the heart break and fights over the alcohol. It is an everyday battle for me. I have tried so hard to get him to stop. He is like a totally different person when he drinks to much. I have been put through the guilt and I am very tired. Now that he has court coming soon, its like another excuse for him to drink more. I wish he would realize what he has. I am not wanting him to go but a part of me thinks just maybe if he goes he will be able to stay clean for a while and it will help him quit. I dont mind the drinking a little but when he gets to the point to where we fight and he gets upset with me for no reason at all and then the next day acts like nothing is wrong. I am at a dead end and have tried everything. The AA meetings do not work at all. He is only doing that because it is court ordered. He doesnt want to quit. He tells me that he enjoys drinking. He is tearing his family apart. I do not know how much more I can take of it. When he doesnt drink we get along great and he is the man that I want to be with. So just maybe him doing time might do some good in that since but I can only hope for him to change. Thanks for letting me vent. I have been in this battle everyday with him with nobody to vent to about it.

A fair number of people with drinking problems enjoy drinking. Heck, _I_ enjoy drinking and if it wasn't for the plain and simple fact that it gets me into trouble every time I go near it, I probably wouldn't have thrown the bottle away. Hey, if it didn't get me into trouble, it wouldn't be a PROBLEM, would it? I can deal with being sick and unable to function most of the day if I can just get a bit of that buzz back by evening and sit in front of my computer while listening to Pink Floyd over and over and over.....

Good alcoholic thinking, isn't it? Mind, I can't ever get back to that buzz any more--haven't been able to in a long time. So I'm sober and rather like it. And I don't really miss Pink Floyd all that much.

Confused, welcome to PTO and I DO feel for you. PLEASE get involved in a local Al-Alon group which aids those of us (such as myself) who loves and lives with active alcoholics. I, myself, am a recovering alcoholic who relasped this week after a brief 45 days sober. My boyfriend, the love of my life, was out of jail just 4 days shy of a month after spending 2 months in there for a alcohol relasted mess when he hit a bottle of vodka for no reason except that he does not want to face the realities and responsibilities of the world. When he gets scared, he runs (like he's said to be before) and the bottle is his mistress. He doesn't even enjoy it; he's a blackout drinker and when he drinks, he's very combative with the local police. Now, he's back in jail for who knows how long.:(

A fair number of people with drinking problems enjoy drinking. Heck, _I_ enjoy drinking and if it wasn't for the plain and simple fact that it gets me into trouble every time I go near it, I probably wouldn't have thrown the bottle away. Hey, if it didn't get me into trouble, it wouldn't be a PROBLEM, would it? I can deal with being sick and unable to function most of the day if I can just get a bit of that buzz back by evening and sit in front of my computer while listening to Pink Floyd over and over and over.....

Good alcoholic thinking, isn't it? Mind, I can't ever get back to that buzz any more--haven't been able to in a long time. So I'm sober and rather like it. And I don't really miss Pink Floyd all that much.

Dave, I really enjoy your insights and intellect in ALL of your posts throughout this forum. :) What you just said here applies to Me AND my boyfriend (except he drinks to escape reality & gets in trouble). I enjoy drinking but I get in trouble with it in different ways (although all of my police and legal dealings in the past were indeed alcohol-related; I just don't drink& drive anymore).
Listening to Pink Floyd over a glass (or 2 or 3) of wine in front of the computer writing was one of my favorite things to do for a long time (in addition to the beer/bar habit). Now, I can't knock Floyd. I saw the Roger Waters show this past summer at Summerfest in Milwaukee where he played all of the old stuff (infact, I'm putting on some Floyd RIGHT NOW:D) and the Dark Side of the Moon album in its ENTIRETY the second half. :thumbsup:

the way i see it and i may be wrong that they call addiction a disease, i do think its something they have a predisposition and have a hard time beating the addiction, but im not so sure i beleive the disease aspect of it..they call it a disease because they would not be able to get health care agency's to cover the cost of it, after they did that many could go to rehab and have health insurance pay for it..so i think that was more of a political move more than anything. but i wouldnt feel guilty for taking care of yourself, sometimes you have to save yourself in order to help and be supportive of others.

Let's face it, if the stuff made us happy, more productive, and easier to get along with, it wouldn't be a problem, would it?

Pink Floyd can be well worth listening to sober (I discovered them long before I started drinking). It's just no longer as much fun to sing along with "Comfortably Numb".

Let's face it, if the stuff made us happy, more productive, and easier to get along with, it wouldn't be a problem, would it?

Pink Floyd can be well worth listening to sober (I discovered them long before I started drinking). It's just no longer as much fun to sing along with "Comfortably Numb".

Don't understand why alcohol is so prevalent and our society makes such a big deal out of a substance that has greatly attributed to the incarceration rate of - especially county jails - incarceration.
Floyd has been my favorite band since I was 12-years-old (sober, of course:D but I was definately on the "dark side of the moon" for the show, ya know what I mean?:thumbsup:

Hey Guys... Wow it's been almost a year!!! I wanted to let you in on a secret... You know what's weird about loving an addict... When you finally know it's over and you read through their letters and you think What a Dumbass and Laugh because you know you are talking about both of you!!!!

Take Care ALL!!!!!

I am feeling very lost and helpless and angry and disappointed etc etc etc right now. My husband was addicted to morphine when he got arrested. He never pawned any of our stuff, stole from me, etc... but he did guilt me into giving him money including my insurance settlement after a wreck. he is on the edge of being a good christian guy and a drug addict who will lie and scheme to get his drugs. I dont' know what to do. I'm codependent. That's a fact. How do i fix it? why am I like this? and if I get counseling, will i end up saying NO to him and losing him??? I need help. I am about to cry 24 hours a day. He was doing good til 2 days ago he got busted in prison for having xanax and morphine. I told him the visitation is the ONLY thing helping me through his prison time and he made me feel guilty for saying that! help!

Wow! I couldn't of said it better myself. I sure know that feeling!

Hey Gang.. Now going on almost three years since I was with Billy. I moved to Florida only to have him contact me when he got out. Like a dumbass as soon as he called I flew back up to Maryland to see him. Sometimes old habits die hard. When I was up here.. He got me to take him to his old hang out. He tried to get me to rent a car for him (I didn't). We had a big fight. Maybe I started it.. maybe because I knew we were still going down the same path. Fast Forward to last year heard he had a baby... *She must've been pregnant when I was up here for the little bit*. I cried...
Fast Forward to this past April.. My dad passed away and he called enough to say he was sorry for my lost.
Looked up his PA record last week. Still addict...Still a dipshit.
YOU CAN'T CHANGE THEM. THEY HAVE TO WANT TO CHANGE. SOMETIMES OLD HABITS ARE HARD TO BREAK.

RUN TO THE NEAREST EXIT, DO NOT WALK, DO NOT STOP TO ASK FOR DIRECTIONS. JUST RUN.

You never stop loving an addict. :(

Hey Gang.. Now going on almost three years since I was with Billy. I moved to Florida only to have him contact me when he got out. Like a dumbass as soon as he called I flew back up to Maryland to see him. Sometimes old habits die hard. When I was up here.. He got me to take him to his old hang out. He tried to get me to rent a car for him (I didn't). We had a big fight. Maybe I started it.. maybe because I knew we were still going down the same path. Fast Forward to last year heard he had a baby... *She must've been pregnant when I was up here for the little bit*. I cried...
Fast Forward to this past April.. My dad passed away and he called enough to say he was sorry for my lost.
Looked up his PA record last week. Still addict...Still a dipshit.
YOU CAN'T CHANGE THEM. THEY HAVE TO WANT TO CHANGE. SOMETIMES OLD HABITS ARE HARD TO BREAK.

RUN TO THE NEAREST EXIT, DO NOT WALK, DO NOT STOP TO ASK FOR DIRECTIONS. JUST RUN.

You never stop loving an addict. :(

You say, "Run. . .do not walk", etc. yet you also say, "You never stop loving an addict." I love an addict. I have "run". We broke up 6 weeks ago after 3 years. I hurt. I miss him (the "straight" him). You have so much insight on this subject and a lot more experience than I. Are you saying that one will always love their addict partner but they should leave (run) anyway to avoid further pain and heartache? Are you saying the love never goes away? If you stay apart and the love never dies, does the pain fade? Thanks!

I think we love something about our addict that we may never be able to fully have. There is a side to them that we think only we can see - the gentle sweet side when they're not using and that is what we pray will prevail in the end. But it seldom does unfortunately. Or at least it doesn't until THEY are ready to truly and sincerely work on their sobriety.

So for myself - I don't think you ever fall out of love with that "good" side. But the addictive behavior patterns are what they are - and no matter how wonderful a part of them may be - that behavior will always kick in and dictate their actions - we can't change that with any amount of love. It's that part of them that will destroy themselves and every other relationship in their life.

IMHO

I think we love something about our addict that we may never be able to fully have. There is a side to them that we think only we can see - the gentle sweet side when they're not using and that is what we pray will prevail in the end. But it seldom does unfortunately. Or at least it doesn't until THEY are ready to truly and sincerely work on their sobriety.

So for myself - I don't think you ever fall out of love with that "good" side. But the addictive behavior patterns are what they are - and no matter how wonderful a part of them may be - that behavior will always kick in and dictate their actions - we can't change that with any amount of love. It's that part of them that will destroy themselves and every other relationship in their life.

IMHO



You explain it so clearly. It breaks my heart. I read the words of a very wise member here on PTO who told me, "No one could ever love me enough to make me stop using". I guess, if we let them, they take us down with them. I think I understand why she said, "RUN! Don't walk!". I see now, in advance of too much drastic damage, what the future will hold and I also see that she is right - if I were smart I'd "RUN" and save myself before I get dragged into the insanity and chaos. It's just so hard to do when you love them so much. But thank you. You are absolutely right. I know they don't change, regardless of how much "good" we see in them.

You say, "Run. . .do not walk", etc. yet you also say, "You never stop loving an addict." I love an addict. I have "run". We broke up 6 weeks ago after 3 years. I hurt. I miss him (the "straight" him). You have so much insight on this subject and a lot more experience than I. Are you saying that one will always love their addict partner but they should leave (run) anyway to avoid further pain and heartache? Are you saying the love never goes away? If you stay apart and the love never dies, does the pain fade? Thanks!


The pain for me has faded. I know better now. I had to get away to see he was the rollercoaster ride. So much fun, but soo scary. And yet you can't get enough. The love never dies.. I see his eyes in a crowded room. The same sweet eyes I fell in love with.. The eyes that stared right through me as he lied to me. I will always love him. But I'm not in love with him... It does get better!!!!

RUN!!!!