----- Original Message -----
From: Coalition for Truth and Justice <bonnie2@txucom.net>
Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 7:40 PM
Subject: Re: Prison in Tx and how to improve the situation


> Dearest Friends,
>
> My friend Jean Pierre President of the IACADP got a message from a
> friend abolitonist in Texas
> I allow myself to send you a part of the letter
>
>
> It would be great if you could send her an e-mail saying what you think
> of the death penalty and the horrible life conditions in Texas death
> row. it is very important...Perry must not be re-elected !!!!!
> please forward widely
>
> her E mail is dill.c@attbi.com
>
> love to all of you
>
> Myriam
>
>
> .I have a request for you. I am
> >>waiting for a meeting with the gubernatorial candidate
> >>for Governor. He is a Democrat, running a! gainst Perry
> >>who is Republican. He is a newcomer to the political
> >>arena and we will be able to influence him ,if we can
> >>get him to listen what is actually going on.He is also
> >>Hispanic as is a large part of the population in this
> >>state,who I know will vote for him , as will the rest of
> >>the minorities.Now my request to you is this:Could you
> >>and a few of the other members of Advocacy groups e-mail
> >>letters to me ,telling what you and the majority of
> >>Europeans think of the barbaric situations in Tx prisons
> >>and the deathpenalty ? If you could get the President of
> >>the European Union send one ,that would be
> >>outstanding.Adress them to Mr. Tony Sanchez , but e-mail
> >>them to me and I will personally deliver them. We know
> >>that Mr. Perry will do nothing to ! abolish the
> >>deathpenalty or change prison conditions.His words after
> >>Napoleon Beazley was executed ,were:"Now Justice has
> >>been done." Last year he vetoed a bill that was approved
> >>by the House and Senate,to not execute the mentally
> >>retarded.So you see, he MUST be replaced and we can only
> >>do that ,by getting Mr. Sanchez elected and I will see
> >>to it that he gets every report about atrocities in our
> >>prisons, until it is stopped. Thank you ! Helga M.
> >>Dill , Boardmember ,TX CURE
> >>P.S.: I need this as soon as possible. Merci bien !

I will send her an email

I'll send one too...thanks Joy for all you do!

Death penalty is bad thing, but is needed for the removal of very bad, irrational, and inconsiderate people . These people live by the same rules as you and I , but choose in breaking them. They have broken several laws for the death penalty enforcement. they have commited one of those crimes shown in a horror movie or adventure film. These people are the reason that we have high insurance for life, vehicle, house and health coverage. These people are the reason so many children are without a love one. These people are why someone is grieving right now. The list goes on and on. They made a personal choice to break the laws that all must follow. Consider these thought: Should Timothy McVeigh have been executed or incarcerated? Should the World Trade Center masterminds be executed or incarcerated? If you chose incarcerated, consider who will feed, house, protect, provide all his/her needs from this day forward; you the taxpayer. I personally do not wish any unnecessary expenses that I don't obligate. These criminals are sick, unchangeable as a majority, and will always be a burden for alot of people. Consider the victims families, consider the victim, and consider me for I don't want their expense. Thank you for considering. Pull the switch.... next.

o...my...god....

i considered it all and i still think that 'pull the switch...next' is a very ignorant thing to say....especially for somebody that is a prisonquard for 15 years!!
consider mentally ill people, juveniles, the bad, terrible conditions op D/R, consider the fact that innocent ppl has been executed (proved!), consider bad incompetent laywers, consider racism. eye for an eye makes blind!

THIRTY EIGHT SPECIAL:


SON, YOU PROBABLY REALLY NEED TO LOOK AT THE GREAT SYSTEM THAT YOU THINK YOU WORK FOR.... I KNOW YOU MUST FEEL LOYALTY AND THAT IS A GOOD THING,BUT JUST REMEMBER THIS, YOU ARE IN CHARGE OF HUMAN BEINGS, NOT ANIMALS..... YES, THEY HAVE DONE HORRIBLE THINGS SOME OF THEM AND SOME OF THEM HAVE NOT.... SOME OF THEM ARE VICTIMS OF THE STUPID JUSTICE SYSTEM THAT WE HAVE IN THE GREAT U.S.A. (YES IT IS ALL WE HAVE AT PRESENT) THIS SAME JUSTICE SYSTEM NEEDS WORK. YOU AND IT AND SO DO I.... I AM 59 YEARS OLD.... WHEN I WAS YOUR AGE THERE WAS NO SUCH THING AS THE DEATH PENALTY.... YOU NEVER NEVER HEARD OF ANYONE GETTING MURDERED.... NOT EVER... IF IT HAPPENED IT USUALLY WAS A CRIME OF PASSION BECAUSE A WIFE SLEPT OUT ON HER HUSBAND... THOSE WERE THE DAYS....

YOU SHOULD RESEARCH YOUR SOUL.... NOT ONLY ARE THERE VICTIMS OF CRIME, THERE ARE ALSO FAMILIES OF INMATES WHO ARE ALSO VICTIMS PROBABLY MORE SO THAT THE ACTUAL VICTIM... THEY LIVE DAY IN AND DAY OUT WITH A CRIME THEY DID NOT COMMIT BUT THAT DOES NOT CHANGE THEIR LOVE FOR THEIR INMATE FAMILY...

DON'T GO THERE.... IF YOU ARE ANY KIND OF PERSON AT ALL, HAVE SOME COMPASSION. IF NOT, GET OFF THIS SITE....

ALSO YOU ARE RIGHT MARA..... "PULL THE SWITCH, ...NEXT" IS A VERY IGNORANT THING TO SAY...

DONA

Your argument for the mentally ill, etc. is an legitimate argument, but you don't know the criminal mind until you have experienced them on a daily basis. Would you like living with or next to a person accused of killing and burning ? Would you like being their next victim or one of your children ( if you have children)? Would you like feeding, housing , and protecting them on a daily basis? If so, can I get your master card number? Living conditions in prison are standard in America. They are not equal to the expected hotels across America, but are liveable. Working in prison opened my eyes to alot of facts: Prisoners will lie for their advantage. Will steal from fellow cellblock residents. Will forcefully sodmize your son and offer you protection for your son for money. They believe in Capital Punishment too in which they exercise each time they catch another prisoner stealing their personal property. They will stab or beat the thief with intent to kill when they catch them without holding a trial, considering race, allowing a lawyer or acknowledging civil right to a trial. They exercise your "Eye for eye" comment. Yes, 15 years in the joint has been an eye opener for me. Maybe you should consider working inside. We have openings for social workers and volunteers. Ignorance is the word most people label the person that commits a capital offense. Most people that defend abolishing capital punishment have no knowledge of the real criminal mind. They have no consideration for what determines capital punishment . They do not know that it takes a very serious/ HEINOUS crime(s) for a capital sentence. A heinous crime is one such as abduction with sexual assault and/or murder or mutilation. Most capital cases involve assault or force. They are a double crime such as robbing a store or some place of buisness and harming or killing the low paid clerk whom is working for a living. These are heinous crimes that deserve punishment. I can't think of a time that I said one morning , " I think I will go rob a "Seven eleven" for some cash. If the clerk looks at my face I will kill her and burn the body." I will go to work or get a second temporary job. The people you defend are the ones that think with the described mentality. Why don't you build a big house and keep all the truly incorrigibles for everyone? Does the victim deserve being victimized twice? They are punished twice for some act they didn't solicit. They are harmed and eventually return to work. They again become a taxpayer that supports these individuals that you defend . The criminal justice system is not at all perfect, but it the best that America has to offer. Alot of money is wasted on frivilous due process such as: Is the offender able to stand trial ? He/she was capable of committing the crime. They were able to harm or "disrespect" another. The court has to prove that they are capable of standing a trial. When all due process is served, the convicted has numerous appeals. All these "due process" hearings are at the expense of the working/ productive citizens and the actual victims and their families. You want uphold their rights to a fair trial; what trial did they give the victim? You mentioned lawyers and incompentence. How does any lawyer represent a person whom chooses committing such a terrible act? Thank God for DNA testing. DNA testing will eliminate alot of the misjustices of innocent people. Some have already been released from prison. I am glad that a test has been designed for aiding the " Proof beyond a shadow of a doubt" . I don't want anybody convicted wrongly nor do I want them incarcerated for something they truly did not do. Most prisoners say they are not guilty of the crime from the beginning to release. Which ones do you believe? Lastly, the recidivist rate is currently 76%. Meaning that most of the released felons go right back to jail. Is this a sign that conditions in jail are not as bad as they seem?

God bless the victims of the heinous crimes and their families. God be with the families of the offenders that commit heinous crimes. They do not deserve persecution for their love ones acts. I do have compassion, but not for people that take advantage of others. I have compassion for you are able to defend very bad people. I can't overlook the truth all the time . I have several faults and will be first with my admission, but I don't bite my tongue. Keep the faith. :) I am out of here for today. In closing, in your day crimes were dealt with in old style justice. John Wayne style. "The Untouchables". I wish we still had some of the old style ways and people, but we now have people blowing up World Trade Centers and Federal buildings. Good Bye and thank you for your participation in a very good discussion and for defending the convicted. You are needed. 38 special.

38Special....

Being inside as a guard for 15 years I am sure you have had to see or hear about PROVEN INNOCENT men & women dying at the hands of the prison system AFTER THE FACT!! INNOCENT men & women being locked up for crimes they didn't commit or recieved OUTRAGEOUS sentences because their WONDERFUL court appointed lawyers didn't give a sh** & did the worst job possible in representing them!!!

How do you explain that?? Can YOU explain that???

I think your time inside has warped your mind too much. I agree w/Donna that if you are any kind of person have some compassion & if not don't come back to this site!!

"but you don't know the criminal mind until you have experienced them on a daily basis"

im sorry 38Special, but i know very very well what im talking about, i do work with them on daily basis, i know probably more about the criminal mind then you do. im a socio-therapist.

Where in the hell did this ignorant guy come from? he has no clue to what he is saying. He is glad they have come up with DNA testing, but he didn't mention all of the people who have been put to death before DNA that were innocent. So I guess it is okay to kill a few innocent people just as long as we kill a few terrible criminals. He also says that only terrible criminals get the death penalty, well we know this is not true. As long as there are District Attorney's out there who are trying to advance their political carrer they do not care if people are innocent or gulity.

Obviously this guy has never heard of Jesus Christ. Of course this doesn't surprise me because it takes a real hard ass non caring person to work for the Prison system, I know I've been there.

Well as revolting as 38special opinion appears he is one of many that think and feel that way. He is ignorant to facts and and only follows what someone else has told him. research the numbers 38. It cost more tax payers money to send a prisoner to death than to incarerate him for life.

After all that is how the Holcaust happened. Mindless people follow the masses. Sheep to slaughter. People lead by authority such as Pope Pius XII, and Hitler. Masses of people thought it was OK to slaughter men women and children. It was war and they were following orders. Right and wrong did not matter.

Will the masses understand and see one day that capital punishment is cruel and unusual? That those that participate are going against the rules of nature?

Will there one day be a Nuremberg War Crimes Trial? To try and convict those that followed the law allowed to kill another human being? The Nazi war criminal were only following the laws or their commander. Will the guard that pushed the switch be put on trial for murder when the law changes? Will he sleep at night knwoing he killed although it was state mandated?

Not any different then Murder for Hire.

Someone else lays out the plan, set's things up and the killer just pulls the trigger and leaves.

It's just an every day "job" for a KILLER.

"These criminals are sick, unchangeable as a majority, and will always be a burden for alot of people"

Just wonder how good a prison guard you were especially making biased statements like that...

you know...everytime i read 38specials posts here, i get sick in my stomache again.....im so angry and frustrated about this ignorance

Ms. Mara:
I aided a psycologist once in a facility. She insisted on having her office in the living quarters of general population ( prisoners with time sentences, life, and life without parole) prisoners. The warden authorized her request against his own written warnings. I was having problems clearing a midday count and went into the psy. office with a quick check for inmates. Surprisingly, I found her tied across her desk totally naked. Her mouth was ripped on one side along with a peritonial tear of her anus. The rape kit detected several DNAs of semen. She was crying and moaning while in a state of shock.
She is still on medical leave while attending her therapist sessions. The trauma was severe from the look on her face upon discovery. TORREY THAT IS WHAT I DREAM ABOUT SOMETIMES. I am sure she dreams about it everyday also. Ms. Mara when I think of the expression on that dear lady's face and her state of condition when I first saw her, "I get sick in my stomach again." .............38 Special............

I'm sorry to hear this, that this happened to this lady. It might sound harsh, but the warden should have never agreed with her request.

And a lot of us just see 1 side of the 'medail'. You see and think about the bad things you've seen in prison, we hear about the bad things that are being done to the inmates we know.

ive seen the bad things, workers beaten up, rapes, lots of agression, voilence. we work with special protection things, alarms and stuff. but after all i saw, after all ive personally been through doing this work, i still see them as persons, humans. when you treat them as monsters, you create a monster. with an attitude like: they are all monsters and should die, you cant axpect them to act nice to ya. im sorry what happens to this lady, but im not changing my mind, "pull the swith...next" , is still wrong in my eyes!!!

Mara:

You have the key dearest girl.... They are human beings. We do not have the right to treat them any differently... We do not know how they were raised... We do not know what created the person they have become.... Yes, violence is horrifying in any aspect..

38...Hon, this is one of the issues that we disagree very heavily on.... I will never be able to accept the death penalty in any situation even if the perpetrator is a violent, mean, human being such as the serial killers and Jeffery Daulmer.... I believe with all my heart that 3/4 of the inmates on death row should not be there..... I do not trust the Justice System that has convicted them because there is so very much fraud in it. Two days ago, Our District Attorney (has been for 20 years) shot a gun in the courthouse..... The sheriff did not prosecute him.... It has been proven that a D.A. is not a law officer and has no right to have a fire arm in the Courthouse... No one was hurt, but the shot broke a glass window in the smoking area.... Could have been someone out there.... Also, we have a District Attorney (Head) who was convicted of DUI twice and caught driving without a license the second time.... How does this happen.... If it had been you or I we would be in jail....

I know that you have sincere faith in the System, but, please, start looking at both sides. We really must change some of these things.... The Death Penalty being one of them.... We should have a Moratorium until we get our Justice System Cleaned Up....

I do see your point, I just disagree.

My Love
Donna

Well said Donna

Ms. Donna:
That is the nicest response that I have received from you or anyone on this website. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. I am sorry that our feelings are different. I do not agree with the wrongs that I see with the law enforcement officials in my area. Some of them are more criminal than the ones they arrest and supervise. During my tenure as an officer, I saw wrongful acts by guards, but I ,most times, saw it come back in wrong to them. WRONG IS WRONG no matter whom commits the violation. A wrongful offender should be punished equally the same, but that does not occur. The main reason, in my opinion, that such a variance in sentencing occurs is because of the outlay of sentencing laws such as 2 to 10 or 15 to life. These type variances gives the judge too much power. I found out while enforcing the law that an law enforcement official (arresting officer) can charge violators at their decretion. This freedom for the officer has caused alot of anger among the convicted. Another variance that I strongly disagree with is having a "jury of your peers", but placing all white jury members for a black person or vice- versa. I have witnessed alot of anger among inmates, the Death Rows, the Admin. Segs., and among the gen. populations because they feel railroaded. This the type complaints you hear in prison. The variances need removing completely from the system. The non-violent crimes should not carry a "Prison sentence", but a brief stay at some training facility while the offender is given another chance in becoming productive. Prison is not the answer to all violations nor will it ever be the solution. Sadly, I admit that some of the "Habitual offenders" ( persons that commit the same crime repeatedly upon each release from incarcertion) can not always be allowed total freedom. Ms. Sherri13 had a very valid point when she pointed out that society will not give a releasee a job. I do not think applicants should be ask rather or not they have been convicted of a felony (crime) for it should not matter. The impression that I have about incarceration has always been "Paid your debt to society." Once a debt is paid for any transaction rather it be monitary, physical, or any other method, it is paid. Someone please campain for a change in the law prohibiting the employer from asking the question of a person's past . If a person is changeable as you dear people believe, they will display their true character.
When I first entered this website, I was just surfing for some conversation about prison for from time to time I miss the environment that I once worked. I truly enjoyed most days because ALL PRISONERS ARE NOT BAD. MOST ARE VERY CHANGEABLE. I have witnessed some very talented men/women in prison. I would often tell them, "It is a shame that you allowed yourself this situation before realizing your skills." I developed many special relationship with men/ women just like your Butch. I did not allow myself tremendous attachment for the job was hard enough without developing attachment. A prison guard is expected a multi-description. American society , as a majority, expect the guards to maintain security and control at all cost. The prisoners demand respect. The law mandated protection for all the prisoners (child molesters, rapest, murderers, and the thieves, etc.). It is not a glamorous job and most offenders and their families hated you, but someone had to keep the place functioning. I have witnessed officers change into bad people after exposure to all the different bads. This change is not right in the eyes of the person trying to be a law abiding person, but you can not change this occurance.
My first impression was, "This is a group of people that have different opinions about the incarcerated", but that is not true you people are all family or love ones of the incarcerated. Your opinions are formed in relation to your feelings for your personal interests (love ones). I should have done what I did for fifteen years, observe first before speaking.
When I entered this website, I had just returned from a personal friend's house. He and I have been friends for over thirty years. We played as kids on the baseball and football field. Sometimes we were team mates and sometimes opponents. He was an excellent quarterback on the local school's football team. His talent won him a scholarship at a local community college. His girlfriend was head cheerleader and also won a scholarship at the college. While attending college, the couple decided on going to the local park for some personal (if you know what I mean) time. They were lying on a blanket in the park having sex when a person appeared with a gun and shouted, "Get up you nasty bastard." My friend was spooked and leaped to his feet. He arose just in time for a bullet to hit him in the neck. While he lay beside the blanket half conscious and immediately paralyzed, he witnessed the person rape his girlfriend, heard her screams, and watch the person shoot the girl in the head. The murderer and rapest was caught months later. His trial was postponed because the doctors said the strong young man would live. His testimony was never needed for a "Plea bargain" was made days before the trial . The deal saved from prosecution of all the crimes which qualified him for capital punishment. The deal secured him a "year sentence" of twenty years and because he had no prior felonies.
My friend has not recovered from the grief and trauma. He has unresolved grief that he can not release because he did not get a chance to tell his girlfriend of nine years, "Goodbye". His father was a preacher, a very devout christain, but he stopped preaching. His mother loved taking him and his brother places, but she does not hardly leave the yard. My friend is paralyzed from the neck to his toes. He has muscle spasms that nearly throws him from the wheelchair. He drives his chair by blowing in a tube. His used-to-be tone muscular body is all swollen and bloated. He has no muscle tone and would urinate and defecate on himself had it not for catheters and other measures. His smiling face has turned to a sad frowning face. His very friendly, caring, and cheerful heart has become cold and depressed. His will for living has become a plead to his mother , "Just shoot me in the head and get this misery over.'
The young girls parents are no longer active in the church, community, nor schools. The mother was a school teacher, but retired early after about three years of her daughter's death. She says her will left with her Donna. Her Donna was the only daughter and child. She had a very long and damaging pregnancy that left her sterile. A total hysterectomy was performed days after Donna's birth. The father died approx. eight years after Donna died from alcoholism. Amazingly, the man never drank before Donna's death for he was image conscious of being a good example for his daughter.
The murderer/rapest spent nine years in prison. Became the prison Chaplain's asst. and was released on parole upon the request of the Chaplain. The Chaplain wrote, "He is a good and changed man. I believe he will never kill or rape again." John was allowed out-of-state parole to Utah. He went to Utah, lived six months, shot and killed a man and woman with an identically based crime (same M.O.) inside their apartment and was killed by the police in a "shoot-out" while running from the scene. My friend's comment of John's death was, "They should have killed him right after his guilty plea of killing and raping my Donna and for paralyzing my life."
This is why I can not stop supporting the death penalty. My friend is the greatest friend that I have and love. His life is felt wasted by him. You see, Donna, Mara, and all you others that have an opposite opinion for this subject (That I respect and accept), I wish that John would not have killed my friend, Donna and not killed my friends body, but he did. John also did it again. The death penalty Torrey is a very expensive sentence much more expensive than placing someone in prison. It is much more expensive than the most infirmed and sick prisoner needing constant medical care. I have studied the numbers many times during my Doctorant studies in Criminal Justice. I have written many papers on the subject from both perspectives. I strongly disagree with a person being "killed" for a crime they did not commit. I sincerely wish that a fool proof system existed for confirming a person's guilt.
I had mixed emotions during many days of duty in prison pertaining to many prisoners, their guilt, and their sentence. Most times, I ,ironically, believed that their blessed sentence was entirely too severe, but often times I saw it too light. Some people, in my opinion Ms. Mara, do not deserve living in our good world of many blessing that most everyone strives exceptionally hard in keeping safe, good, and pure. I am saddened that our creations are not perfect . Hell, I am not perfect by far nor are you, but we strive each days for being law abiding citizens. I have never one time attacked your character for your stance on this issue nor have I instigated others for allegance to my opinion. Your opinion in my country is protected by the first admendment of our Great Constitution, "Freedom of Speech". I do not know how we can stop Capital crimes nor do I know the right actions that displays a deterrent for warding off this type crime. I do know that had John been lethally anesthesized; he would not have killed two people in Utah for a second time.
I am not ashamed of my stance nor my belief. I am sorry and sincerely apologize to anyone that I offended with my initial contributions on this subject. I probably should have kept my comments to myself, but I was very angry at the time and feeling bitter. I should have been less aggressive with my wording .
Sincerely submitted,
38 Special

I've read these answers again. and like Mara said and others said, I thought 'Oh my god....' it was very cruel to say"pull the switch...next" I understand that you must be bitter at some moments, by the things you have witnessed while working in prison, but no matter what someone did, it is always always always wrong to kill someone to prove that killing is wrong

Thank you 38 for that very honest and sincere explanation of why you believe in the death penalty. I understand your point of view... I just can't agree with it! Be it the criminal or the state...the taking of a human life by ANYONE is wrong!

I close my argument, maintain my stance, and exit from this website page.......................38 Special.........................

38 SPECIAL-PLEASE DO NOT LEAVE PTO- I THINK YOU ARE SUCH AN ASSET TO THIS SITE- I CAN ONLY SPEAK FOR MYSELF BUT I APPRECIATE YOUR PERSPECTIVE, WHETHER I AGREE WITH YOU OR NOT. I THINK IT HELPS US ALL STRETCH OUR MINDS AND GROW WHEN WE LISTEN TO WHAT OTHERS THINK , FEEL, AND HAVE EXPERIENCED. YOU HAVE MADE SOME VERY VALID POINTS, AND ARE OBVIOUSLY A VERY INTELLIGENT AND ARTICULATE PERSON. I LIKE READING YOUR POSTS, AND DO NOT TAKE THEM PERSONALLY THEREFORE I AM NOT OFFENDED BY THEM. THE SUBJECTS DISCUSSED ON THIS SITE ARE OF A VERY SENSITIVE NATURE, AND OCCASIONALLY PEOPLE WILL HAVE VERY STRONG FEELINGS ABOUT A SUBJECT AND VERY STRONG EMOTIONS TO GO WITH IT. THE GREATEST THING ABOUT THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS THAT WE HAVE THE RIGHT TO BE WHO WE ARE AND SPEAK AT WILL. I WOULD LIKE FOR YOU TO REMAIN A PART OF PTO.

I agree with Sherri. Our points of views may not be the same, but that is just what makes it interesting, what gives us an opening to discuss something. if we all would think the same, the world be kinda boring. you can also give us a lot of useful informations and other points of views, because of the work you did. so it would be very nice if you'd stay

38 SPECIAL.... YOUNG MAN, LET ME TELL YOU ONE THING, SINCE WE HAVE STARTED TO UNDERSTAND WHY YOU BELIEVE THE WAY YOU DO AND YOU HAVE STARTED TO UNDERSTAND WHY WE FEEL THE WAY WE FEEL WE CAN MAKE A FANTASTIC TEAM....

DO NOT ABSOLUTELY LEAVE THIS WEB SITE.... YOU REALLY MUST STAY HERE.... WE NEED YOUR INPUT AND YOUR UNDERSTANDING.... YES, I TOO CAN UNDERSTAND HOW BITTER IT WOULD MAKE YOU FEEL TO LOOSE SOMEONE YOU LOVE IN A MURDER. I LOST SOMEONE TO A CAR ACCIDENT BY A DRUNK DRIVER AND IT HAS TAKEN ME A LONG TIME TO GET OVER IT. BUT, BELIEVE IT OR NOT, I REALLY HAVE FORGIVEN THE DRIVER OF THAT CAR...

DEAREST 38..... JUST REMEMBER THIS.... DIFFERENT OPINIONS ARE WHAT MAKES US A FREE WORLD.... WE ALL MUST HAVE DIFFERENT OPINIONS OR WE WILL NEVER SURVIVE.

MY LOVE TO YOU
DONNA

even i want you to stay at PTO. we dont agree, but we dont have too. as long as we respect eachother! So please stay

Ms. Mara, Sherri13, Soraya, and Budwoman:
Hold on and let me wipe my eyes and clear my nose before I respond.
Honk! Honk!...Now... I can not say all the words I have for the support I have received. You people knocked me down, stepped on me, picked me up, and pushed me against the wall, but now I know why; I feel better. When you love someone like you people love , Good God!, you can not help but be fighters.
I have given the personal e-mails and the public e-mails a freight truck load of thought. My decision is remain as long as the Good Lord will let me breath. I said some ugly words to myself for about four hours until I finished venting. You folks are one hell of a bunch and I Love You. Yep! Old hard ass said ,"I Love You even you Ms. Mara. Go on, get in line. I might as well kiss you too. God bless you guys and Thank you.
It reminds me of a story about my prison work that I will share. I worked in Segregation for about five years as a supervisor. Everyday, I would walk by every cell in lock-up for a personal check of the prisoners. I would try and pick the one that I felt did not want a conversation and force talk from him/her ( the women were the hardest). I had one older prisoner that was very mean, cursive, loud, boustrous, disrespectful, and loved yelling while I talked with other prisoners, "Get your police ass on. We don't want to talk to you." I knew extinction was a good tool for the described. Simply act as though you do not hear them. It drives them up the wall, but he would not stop talking and yelling. No matter the subject, sports, law, crime, religion, or whatever. He would not shut his mouth. (I many times wanted a muzzle for his face........to myself.) I thought, one day (4/14/1985) as I walked toward the block, "How can I get Willie 's mouth shut while I make some good ground with my listeners." I stopped, walked back to my office, pulled his file up to my monitor screen, and read the following (It put quarter size tears in my eyes): Birthdate: 4/14/1930. Incarcerated since age 6. Placed with criminal charge for protectional purposes. Father child molester. Mother prostitute. Uncle sodomized him daily until age 5yrs. and 9 mths. First charge: assault with intent to kill of the uncle. Hit him with a baseball bat several times while asleep until he stopped moving. "I thought he was dead." Second charge: Age: 09. Assault with intent to kill of another resident inside housing facility. Shocked him with an extension cord while he showered. Extension cord kicked the electrical breaker before successful with plan. " I saw him mistreat other smaller boys. He screwed them, forced (oral) sex on the them, and took whatever he wanted. So, I decided on cooking him." Released: Age 18 to a foster home. Excellent behavior from last incident until release. Incarcerated as adult @ age 25. Charge: murder and arson. Sentence: Life (meaning eligible for parole). Killed father and burned his body. "I caught him playing with my five year old nephew's penis. I took my gun and shot him until the gun stopped shooting. He kept raising his head. So, I pulled him outside on my Aunt's sidewalk, poured gas on him, and watched him burn, burn, burn. His ass burned so bright the fire truck came and put him out . I sat on the porch and watched him. I was so happy until the police and fire truck came. Now I am in prison for his no good stankin motherf......., god...., ass. They should have let him burn all the way up! You got a light (Held a cigarette)? It sure is a pretty sunshiny day. The braves won their game last night. Did you see it? I am going home next week. "(Alot more rambling narrative continued.) Skills: Excellent carpenter taught while incarcerated in child/teenage facility.
I was amazed that the older man was alive after such a terrible childhood. His mother was never mentioned. I did not have a contact number for her. All of a sudden, it hit me like a ton of rocks on my head. Today's date: 4/14/1985. HIS BIRTHDAY!!! "I know, I will give him a birthday party." I got the general population supervisor's agreement for watching my side and left for the store. I bought 24 party hats, two boxes of ice cream, paper plates, plastic spoons, 24 "Little Debbie" cupcakes ( three boxes), and a big number "55" for his age. I hurried back to work for the surprise party.
I went quickly inside the cellblock before anyone saw me. Upon entering the block, I opened all the tray doors (door on the near bottom of the cell door which is used for feeding), and began handing out the cupcakes on a plate with a spoon. All the prisoners were appalled and stood looking out their celldoor window in amazement. He began yelling, "What the h... you doing police. Shut my door back. Get away from the d... door. I don't want your s... . Get away from my door. You better read my jacket (file). You don't know me........." "Willie, come get your present." (Holding a plate with a cupcake which "55" sat on top and a spoon.) He stopped yelling, walked to the door, and reached for the plate. "Happy 55th birthday. Here get your ice cream." He held out his plate for some cream. "Give me the chocolate." I gave him both vanilla and chocolate. "Happy birthday to you, happy birthday to you". The men in the block joined in the rest of the song while I gave them ice cream. They ate and got seconds on the cream until all was gone. I gave Willie a free phone call, two white T-shirts, and a pair of white socks. Guess what? He called his mother. I think he was the happiest prisoner that I had ever seen.
He stopped cursing, misbehaving, and was released to general population for the first time in over twenty years. He became the Asst. Warden's runner ( messager and deliverer...High prestige job). He became minimum in his custody status and was assigned outside for daytime variating duties. He finally earned an eight hour pass. (Got your snot rag). He asked me for a favor, "Will you take me to a free world church."
I took him to my personal church (Shhh!!!....I loaned him one of my suits, but do not tell noone). The congregation welcomed him with open arms. Gained permission through voluntaring his sponsorship each Sunday for a ride to church. He was the proudest man I ever seen. We gave him a new Bible. He made a leather cover for it with W.T. on the top right corner and J.C. in the bottom right. I asked him one day why he chose the right corner and he said, "That is my new path."
The church gave him an eight hour a day job working around and in the church building. The Warden and Asst. Warden approved his work assignment. He truly loved his job. He arose every morning @ 0400, prepared his cell for departure, took a shower, ate at the dining hall, and headed for the backgate at 0630. He mostly read his Bible while waiting for the check-out time. His life had really changed from terrible to most wonderful.
He met his "Diamond", as he put it, one day while working. She broke down on the road by the church property. He sat on the porch, he said for one hour, while she sat in her car waiting for a car to stop. Noone stopped nor even slowed. He finally broke his first rule since proclaiming "right" and left the church premises. He walked over to her car (in prison whites), offered his assistance, and she accepted. He hurriedly pushed the car back to the church property and began removing the fuel pump. She went in the church building, called a local parts house, and had the part delivered. "We talked for the remainder of the job. "
She began visiting him while they sat in church together each Sunday. "I loved her from the day I fixed her car." "I loved him from the time he offered help." They married one year from the date they met. The parole board, reviewed his file filled with hundreds of community citizens letters begging his release, a letter from his preacher, a promise from the church employment committee, the Warden, Asst. Warden, his classification supervisor, and various officers that had witnessed a majority of his transformation into a new man. The decision was unanimous............PAROLED WITHOUT ANY FORM OF SUPERVISION OR MOVEMENT LIMITATIONS. You are only required a monthly report for the next two years. He now lives two houses down from me, preaches at my church occasionally, and delivers the gospel all over America.....................:).....38 Special..........:)......

Glad you decided to stay! What a great story that is. Thanks for sharing.

38Special..... I have been sitting here silently reading your posts and everyone's response. I havn't said much....really don't have much to say, until now. I heard this interview one time with Mother Theresa which I will never forget. A lady in the audience asked her what she would say or do if a mother were to come to her and tell her that her daughter was "living" with this boy and refused to get married. All the neighbors and friends are just horrified and this mother is so embarrased. Mother Theresa said she would bring a plant as a house warming gift and tell them that Jesus Loves them. You see she said (Mother Theresa), God only told me to love... not to judge.

But we are all only human and some times that just doesn't work, especially if the loved one that is being attacked in any way (verbally or physically) is someone we care about. It's our nature to rise up and fight back. I think we are fighting for ourselves too,.... if we love a looser then we too must be a looser...right?

When I look at the world today, I get so sad, and angry at times because there is so much hate and judgement in this world. In the Bible, Jesus tells us to love our neighbors as we love ourselves. Well, how can we love our neighbors when WE DON'T love ourselves? Every where we turn around there is ALWAYS someone there to tell us what is wrong with us? Your too fat, your too skinny, your hair is the wrong color, you don't have a good enough job, you don't dress right, you don't shop and the right store..etc...etc...etc...... Look at the "personal ads" now that is the "in thing" to meeting that "someone special". All the ads want someone that is a certain way..physically and emotionally. Why can't we all just look at someone for who they are... for their heart. God made each and every one of us and I have been told that God doesn't make mistakes..so why is it there is always someone telling us what is wrong with us? When I look at the guys on Death Row, read about their execution you know what image I have in my mind? That person as a little baby. He/She wasn't born to hate... somewhere along the road he/she was taught to hate. I'm not just saying by the parents either because look at Napoleon Beazley's family!! But this WORLD is so full of hate, so judgemental and I am not going to exclude the Church's either. Many people want to know God, but just can't live up to the "standards" that "Christians" put on people so they say to hell with it.

I am putting in my 2 cents worth in with the rest when I say I am glad you stayed. I don't know if my 2 cents mean anything.... but your ok just the way you are, thoughts and all.

Joy

Ms. Joy:
Thank you for your beautiful way of spreading your love. Thank you for including me in this enormous, but versatile family of people. I will be more careful when walking by not stepping on everyone's toes. I am the bull in the china store.
Yours in response............38 Special............
P.S. I have met and cared for Mother Theresa. She is an extraordinary woman. I apologize for breaking confidentuality, but I thought you might like to know........:)

I'm glad you decided to stay too....:)

Ms. Sandy:
Thank you for your welcoming support. I am here with a listening ear . Kinda rhythms . Take care. How is AG? No word from his appeals? We wish innocence would always prevail, but I guess it does not. Prayer is the key..38 Special..:)...

38..no word on his appeal as of yet...but thanks for asking!

Look forward to reading more touching and insightful stories from your career as a prison guard (the last one brought a few tears to my eyes)

Thanks once again for staying with us here at PTO!

THANK YOU 38....

YOUR KNOWLEDGE AND EVEN YOUR STRAIGHTFORWARDNESS WILL HELP US TREMENDOUSLY.... THANK GOD YOU DECIDED TO STAY..

MY LOVE
DONNA

38, i know i didnt talk really nice to you. that was coz you confronted me with things that hurt me, you made me think and sometimes the truth hurts. it just hurted to read you wanted my boy to die (thats what i felt). i perfectly understand your opinion and i can imagine why you think like that. for me thats difficult coz im so close with a person that will get the injection in some years. that was why i responded so angry....hope you understand that, like i understand why you responded the way you did.
all the best, Tamara

38 Special,

Thank you for that great story. It brought tears to my eyes.

Lordy, Lordy, Lordy, I want to to look at the post above mine....

Hey sweetheart.... Glad to see you post again...

Love Ya
Mom

Mr 38 Special, I know this reply is very late in the game, but here goes: I just read your account of the prisoner with the terrible attitude and how he became a changed man on account of some trust and kindness. And with all due respect, you have shot your own arguement down in flames. You argue that the Death Penalty is necessary, that some offenders are worthy of nothing but death, yet in the next breath, you tell of this man, surely a candidate for the Death Penalty, and , yet, with some understanding and trust, he has become an upstanding citizen. Please, correct me if I am wrong as I am sure you know a lot more about this subject than I ever will (and I mean that sincerely) but, where is the difference? Surely there are men on Death Row that have a horrific history of family violence, perhaps even more so than the man you speak of. Do they not deserve the chance to redeem themselves? To turn their lives around? I really don't know for sure how I feel about the Death Penalty, I just remember hearing from a very wise man once; Some that die deserve life; some that live deserve death. Who will judge? Who has that authority?

Ms. Cobwebqueen:
I appreciate your responding late or not. I have been late most of my life on most everything that I do. I would normally reply with a tangible argument, but I reserve all comments on this subject out of pure respect for these dear sweet people whom need an avenue for venting their frustrations. I have comments on all Criminal Justice topic, but my comments do not fit this forum any longer. I will not say what I feel on "The Death Penalty" in this area for I have felt the hurt throughout this site. These people are very considerate of each other, the law, and all a supportive network for each other. Therefore, I will reserve all negative comments in the future pertaining to the subject.
If you ask me a question in the "General Subject" forum, I will certainly answer it, but I will not disrespect these loving people for they have not disrepected me. Thank you again for your comments. My dad has always said, "Better late than never."
God bless you and keep you safe. Tell Australia I said, "Hello and keep those kangaroos jumping." I love your country and especially the outback. Your country was founded by convicts (according to our textbooks) and has certainly contributed a positive example toward rehabilitating the criminal. We love the make believe Australian in our movie screens, "Crocodile Dunde". Now, he is the Australian poster person.......To you in the land down under....38 Special..:)...

I am so sorry for the loss of your friend , you might not believe me but I do know how you feel.
I have been cristised for saying that I thought rapists should get longer sentences. Its an issue I feel strongly about since I was raped at the age of 8 along with my sister and mother (who didnt survive the attack). But you have the right to your views as they have a right to theirs.
As for your view on the DP I am indecided on it. I feel for the families both the victim and the inmates. I think the inmates should get the lethal injection as its more ethical and they should all have free access to lawyers and DNA testing. I think their maybe a few innocent people on deathrow thats why we have so many appeals but not as many as people think.
Dont let others bully your views they have no idea of your pain or hurt. I have been told I am full of hate and rage, I dont think I am. I am known to my friends as not outspoken and calm person. If you need someone to talk to I am here, though its not much. Please dont let other people stop you posting. I have wanted to stop but I realised something, the most important people in your life are your friends and family. I know that sounds easy I have been VERY hurt by some people on here, but you just need to think everyone has different viewpoints even if they dont like the fact you have yours.

Take Care

Caroline

Caroline & 38special...I hope noone on this site ever said we do not like the fact that someone has a viewpoint. I am sure I could search for a while and find nothing of the sort. Of course you may feel a bit alienated because your viewpoints are in the minority. What did you expect coming on a site for prisoner support? I appreciate other points of view even when I strongly disagree. I think you have heard others say the same here. What I do not appreciate is the strong assumption that noone but the two of you has ever felt bitter towards a criminal. Or that you are the only witnesses to a crime. Or that you are the only one ever to have spent 15+ years surrounded by the criminal mind. We are just a little further along in our forgiveness, it seems. I don't say a lot on this site and keep my replies benign for strong personal reasons, but this time I just had to speak up. I would love to see Caroline and 38special stay on and continue to post. I would like to see mutual respect of everyone's opinions continue to grow. Hashing it out the way we do may be the only answer to progressing. Present on this site are all the elements of the system we need to reform. Let's continue to communicate no matter how painful it gets. Read the opening page to this forum once more, and maybe every time you sign on!

38-- I AM SO VERY PROUD OF YOU SON.... YOU DID GOOD ABOVE.... YES, YOU ARE SO RIGHT.... THERE IS A SIDE TO EVERY STORY AND WE ALL MUST BE CAREFUL HOW WE RESPOND AND HOW WE TREAT EACH OTHER....

ALL OF US ARE HURTING IS SOME MANNER AND WE NEED TO STAY TOGETHER IF WE ARE ABLE TO EVER CHANGE THE WRONGS AND MAKE THEM RIGHT.


VNVDVC, YOU ARE RIGHT, THIS IS MY OPINION ALSO, BUT, I DO UNDERSTAND THAT ALL HAVE AN OPINION AND THEY HAVE REASONS FOR THOSE ALSO.... HURT IS USUALLY ONE OF THEM.... I KNOW THAT 38 MADE ME REALIZE JUST HOW BITTER I HAD BECOME AT THE DOC AND THEIR EMPLOYEES... IT TOOK HIM TO WAKE ME UP AND REALIZE THAT ALL OF THEM ARE NOT BAD PEOPLE..... SOME OF THEM ARE REALLY TRYING TO HELP BECAUSE THEY TOO SEE INJUSTICE IN THE SYSTEM...

MAY GOD BLESS AND KEEP US ALL AND KEEP US TOGETHER SO THAT WE MAY TAKE ALL OUR OPINIONS AND FILTER THROUGH THEM AND COME UP WITH WHAT IS RIGHT.

MY LOVE
DONNA

Ms. Donna :
Well placed wording. You have a knack with words for those that listen. I hope , we can solve the problems arising from the Capital Punishment issues. If we all put our minds together, we can establish a solution for alternatives to the "Death Penalty".

Ms. Caroline:
I will never stop voicing my opinion nor will I remain silent for long. Everyone has an opinion on the subject, but this forum is not the place. These people talk with each other about their loves and concerns on "Death Row". They are not wanting more negativism about their love ones mistakes or vicious acts. I thank you for your concerns about me and am always looking for a listening ear. We will definitely talk again in the very near future. You take care and remember: "Rape is not the victims fault nor did the victim ask for sexual assault." A sex offender is a person that usually was violated theirself. Rape, child molestation, and other sexual emphasized offenses are a learned behavior. People are not born with these tendencies, as according to the scholars whom have conducted indepth studies. Closing, I hope I have said ,at least, one word which may help ease some of the pain you feel each day.
Ms. vnvdvc is right in saying that we are not the only ones witnessing crimes, dealing with the criminal mind, and feeling bitter. We all have experienced some type misbehaviors and felt the consequence of hate and bitterness. Your feeling are real and just. You are always given the Constitutional right of voicing; noone can keep you silent. I am not commenting on the "Death Penalty" because this is not the place for my opinion. I have developed a sense of respect for all the members at PTO. They have helped me see the other side of my Gemini characteristic that was hidden for years. I started working in prison with a very tender and naive heart. I was quickly hardened because tenderness and kindness is considered a weakness inside the prison world. A tender person is victimized by the people that have truly, for whatever reason, lost their love of their fellow man. I have realized that I am not in prison anymore and all people on the outside are not, as a majority, cold, senseless, conniving, and without morals. There are many prisoners with very good hearts that are cautious of the minority of really bad people in prison. Keep the faith and write me again soon....38 Special........:)

I think the very fact that we can have a logical discussion about topics we don't necassarily agree on is promising. When a group of mature, open-minded individuals can discuss something as important as the subjects that are discussed on P.T.O., and not resort to anger and name calling, well, it is very promising, isn't it? And, over history, important issues have only changed and reform come about when these sorts of discussions can take place. I think we are seeing the beginnings of a groundswell of protest regarding conditions in prisons and I think that P.T.O. will lead the way. But the only way this will be achieved is with Unity.

We are becoming a diverse yet cohesive group-UNITY. God, that makes me smile! :)

WE HAVE COME A LONG WAY BABY!!!!!


LOVE YA
DONNA