I see alot of people are against the DP, so what would be their alternative? LWOP, even if its not life? 40 years? I have mixed feelings on the DP. I am half american from my fathers side he is a pro death penalty. Many of my friends in the UK are anti. One thing I do know is if their wasnt a DP I would definatly want life to mean life. My british mother and sister were murdered and their killer is in a british jail but I know for sure one day he will be paroled, I feel more concern should lie on the victims rather than the murderers whether your an anti or pro death penalty.

Caroline

So sorry to hear about your mother and sister. That's such a tragedy. As far as the death penalty goes, I think life without the possibility of parole is a better option. I truly believe no one has the right to take someone's life be it the criminal or the states that enforce the death penalty.

If you take a life for a life, nothing gets solved. However, give these guys LWOP and let them work, taking part of their pay to give to a victims fund. Have these guys work with the youth and maybe they could prevent other murders. Giving back to the community would be a better thought than just killing him and creating more victims.

Yes, when the guy is executed, it gives "closure" to the victims family. However, tell me, who is going to give "closure" to the family of the man that the state has executed?

The problem is that life doesnt always mean life. Its even worse in the UK they get out in a few years. I think if they were doing LWOP they should work, I am not so sure with kids though , I wouldnt let the man who killed my mum and sister go anywhere kids in my area. If life meant life, and they go could work which would be good for them and the community I could say I could be anti.

Caroline

Caroline

I'm sorry about your family.

95% of all inmates get released. alot of times when the Jury is deliberating lwop is not an option. SO they give the dp.

What do you do with guys that are truly mad. Men that would kill and maim anybody they came into contact with ?

Those are tough questions.

I believe in the DP However, our system is severly screwed up.


Also during executions all you here about from the media is about an inmate losing his life. They forget that inmate John Doe raped and murdered somebody who has a family. All the attention is on the inmate not the victim or his/her family.

people who are mentally ill and a potential danger should be in locked mental facilities, receiving treatment, not in prisons.

No one is excusing the crime of the inmate- all I am saying is two wrongs don't make a right- Murder is always wrong

and i disagree there ia A LOT of focus on the victims- that is why we have the death penalty to begin with

Well said Sherri......I totally agree!

Caroline, I too am totally against the death penalty. I know that it is wrong to kill someone and it is just as wrong to kill that person for killing. You dont teach your child not to lie or steal by lying or stealing to him/her or in front of them so you cannot teach a person not to kill by killing. I think that any first time offender should have situation evaluated to see if they have ever been in trouble before, if they were under the influence of some sort of substance, all mitigating factors. Then they should be judged and sentenced accordingly. IF it is someone who has been in trouble before or if it is a mutiple murder then that person should be placed in a solitary confinement cell for the rest of his or her natural life. I have some other views about punishment such as the likes of Susan Smith... she should have to listen to a audio tape recording of two little kids begging "Mother why did you do this to us" daily. Some people say that people who kill have no conscience but excuse me if you had to listen to something like that daily then eventually you would get a conscience or you would lose your mind one.

I do not believe that anyone who murders someone, especially heinously should get away with it BUY to kill that person makes you the same kind of cold and heartless person that you are killing.

If you kill someone it is written on that persons death certificate that their cause of death is homicide. WHEN the states kill someone it is written on their death certificates that their cause fo death is a homicide. WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE.

Sorry I didnt mean to be insensitive about your family either, I am truly sorry for you loss and their way of death. I just get carried away sometimes. :o

Some of you said there is alot of focus on the victims, but I have to say I disagree. I was attacked with my loved ones and saw the whole thing, but being 8 years old meant I didnt have a voice, there was noone to explain to me what death,murder or rape was. When someone is executed you hear about the inmate and how they suffered but believe me the victims have suffered probably much more. When you grow up without your mother it affects you for the rest of your life, when your raped it affects your relationships. I was robbed of my childhood, my mother, my sister, there isnt a day that goes by when I dont think about them.

Although I am undecicded on the DP, I cant say I feel very sorry for the person being executed (as long as its not torturous such as electric chair), however I do feel very sorry for the inmates family, as I know how it feels to lose someone. They committed no crime they are innocent like my family was. Maybe the focus and support should not be for the inmate bu for the victims, and the inmates family, bring them together if (both parties agree) and they can morn together.

I agree that when you are a child you dont have any say so at all. I also agree that there is a lot of media attention days before an execution BUT not afterwards. I know personally a woman who's husband was kept sitting in the chair for an hour and forty five minutes because the phone lines were down and they could not do anything until they got call from Governor or Dept of Corrections head saying go ahead. Instead of taking him back to the death cell and then carrying him back to chair to kill him they made him sit there and made his wife watch. Talk about torture.

I will say that I have always said that an inmate that is executed does suffer for a brief few mins but not but just a few mins. IT is the families that suffer the most and forever.

Sorry I got airheaded there for a min. My purpose to telling you about womans husband is that no one was ever told about any of that at all. There is a lot that you dont hear at all. Believe me.

Hi Pam (read the post and there is a question at the bottom)
I think many of you should visit murdervictims.com and try to understand where i am coming from.
I have heard of terrible things happening at executions, I have read many "botched executions" on the amnesty website. I think its shocking if I was to ever to agree to the DP it would have to be by means of lethal injection (and yes I know things go wrong there too).
If you read my earlier post, I explain that maybe the inmate does suffer but not as victims or the family of the inmate. I have looked into the eyes of a rapist/killer and I saw prue evil. Maybe if the families realised what pain their loved one caused, they could understand how us MVS are affected.
My initial interest on the issue of the DP was because my father is in favour of it, being confused I visited many sites pro and anti alike. I went to deathpenaltyinfo.org (anti) and prodeathpenalty.com (by the way do you post on the boards there?)

Caroline


My mon died when I was 6. So i grew up w/o out a mom. However, she was not taken from me by some vicious killer.
I can't imagine the pain and suffering you have gone through and you still will go through. I just know that Jesus can heal your hurts.

That being said if the inmate that did this crime were to be executed all we would hear about here in Texas is the Liberal media talking about him. Nothing or much would be mentioned about your pain and suffering. I think since it seems most executions take so long they seem to forget about the victim.


also about my kids when they lie or cheat I don't do that to them they get the belt. the worse the crime the worse the punishment.

Death penalty is the ultimate punishment for the ultimate Crime.

Hi Big B,
I am sorry to hear about your mum, I was about the same age I was 8. Maybe you can understand the pain I feel. As a fence sitter on the DP, I feel that if there was to be a DP, it shouldnt take years after being convicted for their to be an execution. I think that they have the right to appeals and so on but the whole process should be sped up. I have to say I felt my family where very much forgotton, he recieves conselling and support in jail. I feel like I am serving a jail sentence too, because of what happened to me I will never be free, yet I know he will be releashed one day, from that day on I will never feel safe. I just hope that one day a murderer will always serve at least the rest of their life in jail.

BIG B: if you think that the death penalty is the ultimate punishment for the ultimate crime, please explain to me why there are thousands of people who "committed" the "ultimate crime" (which i am assuming means murder) that were NOT dealt the "ultimate punishment"? That's one of the many problems with the death penalty. It's handed out so randomly. And, it's often handed out to minorities and the poor ~ the individuals who have to rely on public defenders who are so often inexperienced, underpaid, and overworked. As a result, the indigent accused suffer. We had a death penalty case here in North Carolina overturned because the attorney assigned to the defendant admitted he didn't like the guy and didn't care whether or not he was put to death, that he was drunk most of the trial, and did not give the defendant the representation he deserved. this is ONE example of thousands as to why the death penalty is WRONG. Not one other westernized nation implements the death penalty. we are using this barbaric tool along with many of the same countries we often condemn for their human rights policies ~ including China, Saudi Arabia, and Yemen.

Which brings me to my next point....life without parole. why are we keeping 80 year old men in prison who are sickly, weak, and unable to fend for themselves? Shouldn't these people have the option of being turned over to a relative? They are no longer a threat to society in any fashion. Why are taxpayers continuing to support these elderly individuals who could be taken care of elsewhere?

This "system" that is so often referred to is NOT one of the people. It's a system that has become so entrenched, the work of reasurrecting is something that politicians probably cringe at, despite the fact that even THEY know it's NOT WORKING. Instead of paying out millions of dollars to warehouse people, why don't we, instead, spend those monies on a complete overhaul of "the system" which we all know is in serious trouble. Let's focus on punishment and rehabilitation, not cruel and unusual punishment and warehousing. The God I believe in is a forgiving one, not a vengeful one. The God I believe in hates the death penalty. The God I believe in comforts the victims and wants to punish the offender, but in a sensible way, not by continuing the cycle of death.

ac

This issue can be debated until the end of time. I just have one question.... The parents, wive's, or children of the men that society say are worthless human beings and are executed. How do you tell them to heal? You both said yourself the pain you feel when you loose someone. How do you help these people heal?

That's why nobody wins, there are NEVER any closures, there is never an answer to murder. Death is Death and someone will always be grieving. So when does the cycle stop?

It wasn't the individuals' right to take a life so how can it be a right the system is allowed? You are right, Joy. It will be debated until the end of time! I feel for the victims on each end. Forgiveness! Forgiveness! Forgiveness! And I am qualified on some level to suggest this! I only wish I were qualified to help in the learning process.

I have to say I can understand people are against the DP, but LWOP. No Murderers should never be let out. When the man who killed my sister and mother is let, out I will live in fear, why should he be let out, when I will forever be serving a jail sentence, i dont care if he was elderly or ill. He didnt care when he raped me, my sister and mother, or when he killed my sister and mum. Lets remember he choose to do what he did, I never choose for this to happen, yet I will suffer for the rest of my life, and he can start and a new life when he is gets parole. and yes I do feel sorry for the inmates family, but if hes serving life in jail its easier than not ever seeing them again. My memories of my loved ones are not of final statements, or visiting them I wish more than anything I could see my mum and sister. Maybe I wouldnt execute but I would never forgive or let them out.

I guess you will never understand what I mean like I said before visit www.murdervictims.com and tell me these people should live in fear when the murderer is releashed, or these people should forgive their loved ones killer. Or if nothing else try and realise what these people have gone through.

This may sound wierd but I'm a convict & I understand the death penalty, & just about every con I know does too. My problem with it is if your going to use it, you have to be absolutly certain that the person is guilty, not just in a court but of the crime. Too many people have been proved INNOCENT because of evidence or DNA for me to have any faith in the death penalty. I'm not alone. Govenors in a few states have put their executions on hold because of these doubts. Many more should. If your going to put someone to death there should be absolutely no doubt about what your doing. Hell, I stabbed a guy in prison for less.But like most people I hold others to a higher standard.

Oh Care;

What a horrible, horrible way for "society" to pose the death penalty issue to you! Since I am a Mom, may I offer a sincere "Mumly hug" to you?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

In Canada, we've no death penalty, as you probably know.

We do one of three things.
*****
1st Degree Murder = Life with no parole for 25 years.

After that you are allowed a parole hearing ONCE A YEAR, until you can convince the Parole Board that you meet a number of criteria. (You will have a place to live. Social support. An income. You've completed appropriate treatment and rehabilitation programs. Conquored your drug/alcohol habits. etc.)

Once paroled you are SUPERVISED for life, and ANY violations of your parole stipulations, lands you back in prison. The violations are many and automatic, and some go a little overboard. (E.g: You aren't allowed to travel without telling your Parole Officer. But what if it's Fri night and the PO's not in until Mon morn, but the hospital just called and your Dad is dying now!)

*****
2nd Degree Murder = Life with no parole for AT LEAST 10 years.

This allows a judge to assign you no parole hearings for anywhere between 10 years and 25 years. Then it follows the same process as above.

*****
We have a third option that is rarely used. That is having the courts declare someone a "Dangerous Offender". That means "Life Until You Die!" And it's usually spent in segregation, the whole time!

Problem is the criteria is basicly based on the idea that "if we ever let this person out, they're likely to reoffend." Thus you're being sentenced for POSSIBLE crimes you HAVEN'T actually committed (yet).

We presently have 69 Dangerous Offenders in Canada.

~~~~~~~~~~

I think that two things people forget about with lifers, are that

A) Most murders are caused by a combination of i)drugs/alcohol, ii) access to a weapon and iii) a moment of acute stress, panic etc.

B) After 25 (or 40 or whatever) years in prison, (especially if in segregation, the entire time) the man released is a helpless blob of jelly. He's aged. His health is gone. He has no family left. No job potential. Heck he doesn't even know what a computer, or bank card is.

But people tend to retain the vision of him as he was went he was arrested. Young. Powerful. Angry. Hopped up on drugs etc. That's just not the reality, in most cases.

Menolly

Oh and Care?

I LOVE your idea of mediation between the victim's family and the inmate's family. They too are victim's, but not merely forgotten victims.

They live with the stigma and "the stare" that asks "What the heck went on in YOUR hourse, to cause a person to do such a horrible thing?"

A lot of what keeps questions of the death penalty going, is undirected and unresolved anger.

Love,
Menolly

Thanks Menolly (gratefully aceepts hug), I do think it would be a good idea to get the families together, I still however cant imagine myself supporting a person going free, my view is biased. When I lived in sarasota I flew up to minniesota to stay with relatives we took a trip up to Canada and very nice it was too :)

THE FACT THAT A LIFE HAS BEEN TAKEN IS A CRIME..... NO MATTER WHICH END TAKES IT.... THE KILLER OR THE GOVERNMENT. EACH ONE IS MURDER....

WE DO NOT HAVE A RIGHT TO TAKE A LIFE.... THE PERSON WHO KILLED DOES NOT HAVE A RIGHT TO TAKE A LIFE....

SO, WHAT DO WE DO? HOW DO WE HOLD THEM ACCOUNTABLE? DO WE BEAT THEM? DO WE BURN THEM WITH GAS? DO WE WHIP THEM WITH WHIPS? DO WE STRIP THE SKIN OFF THEIR BACKS? NO......ABSOLUTELY NOT.....

THERE ARE ALWAYS THINGS THAT HAPPEN ESPECIALLY IN OUR TIME TODAY THAT CAUSE MURDER AND KILLING....
WE HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO COMPASSION FOR EACH OTHER FIRST AND FOREMOST.... WE DON'T CARE IF OUR NEIGHBOR GOES HUNGRY AND CANNOT FEED HIS CHILDREN.... WE TURN OUR BACKS ON STREET PEOPLE BECAUSE WE FEEL THEY ARE FAILURES....

WHEN WE ALL DECIDE TO GET BACK TO THE BASICS OF LIFE AND ACTUALLY LIVE AND BREATHE THE 2 - GREATEST COMMANDMENTS THAT WERE GIVEN US BY JESUS CHRIST.
A_ LOVE THE LORD THY GOD WITH ALL THEY HEART AND SOUL AND WORSHIP NO OTHER GOD.
B) LOVE THY NEIGHBOR AS THYSELF

THEN AND ONLY THEN WILL OUR SOCIETY CHANGE AND MAYBE WE CAN GO BACK TO MY TIME, WHEN THERE WAS NO KILLING.... AND NO- 38 SPECIAL- I LIVED IN THE 50'S NOT DURING JOHN WAYNES TIME.... WE WERE A VERY PEACABLE PEOPLE.... ALL HAD JOBS, THE ECONOMY WAS GOOD, WE COULD FEED OURSELVES NO PROBLEM AND YOU NEVER HEARD OF ANYONE KILLING ANOTHER HUMAN BEING.....

OUR CHILDREN WERE BROUGHT UP WITH VALUES... WE WERE REAL PARENTS.... WE DID NOT TAKE OUR CHILDREN TO A PARTY AND LET THEM STAY UNTIL 2 A.M. THEY WERE DISIPLINED .

THIS AGAIN IS MY OPINION.... IF WE CAN REALLY DEPEND ON OUR JUSTICE SYSTEM AND IT'S CORRECTNESS, THEN MAYBE THE DEATH PENALTY COULD BE REINSTATED.... NOT NOW THO, BECAUSE THEY REALLY DO NOT KNOW WHAT THEY ARE DOING...

LIFE IN PRISON, SHOULD MEAN JUST THAT...LIFE IN PRISON.... PRISON TO ME IS PROBABLY THE BEST DETERRENT, IF AND ONLY IF THERE IS REAL REHAB....NOT A PRETENSE OF REHAB.....

AND NO,,, I HAVE HEARD SO MANY COMMENTS ABOUT PRISONS BEING LIKE VACATION HOMES.... SOMEBODY BETTER TAKE A REAL LOOK AT THEM.... OR BETTER YET, SPEND ABOUT 3 MONTHS IN A REAL PRISON.... THEN COME OUT HERE AND TELL ME THEY ARE FUN AND GREAT...

MY BEST TO ALL
MY PRAYERS TO ALL
DONNA

I totally agree with Donna on this. Prisons are no party and the death penalty is murder and nothing less. Spending time in prison especially life in prison is far worse for the offender than dying. Think about it.

Noone said it was a holiday camp lovemuffin, I just think life should mean life. I am undecicded on the DP, but if someone murders I could never want anything but Dp or life.

The Death Penalty is only a "legal" way to get revenge.

Yes, God said to love thyself.. However, in this day and age, that is almost impossible to do. Every time you turn around you have someone telling you that you look wrong, you act wrong, you are wearing the wrong clothes...etc...etc..etc...

How can you love yourself when the world looks at you as "not being perfect?" Then, if you have a family member go out and do something stupid, gets the Death penalty and is executed, you have to live with that. "Oh yeah, my dad killed someone and was executed, he was worthless and the scum of the earth".... Yeah, I bet that kid grows up loving everyone. If his dad was worthless, then he must be right?

Yes, I use to post on that board, but due to the insensitivity on there by the pro's I no longer post there. I dont care if a person is in favor of or against the death penalty it isnt hard to be respectful nor sensitive.

Caroline,
Go to www.murdervictims.com and then go to Victims Voices, scroll down until you see the year sections and look for 1983. Once there click on Rhonda Hardin and you will see the beautiful young lady that I have been fighting for five years in hopes of getting JUSTICE for her. I am not in favor of doing away with LWOP, nor am I in favor of allowing someone to kill someone and get away with it. I am just not in favor of killing period and definitely when there is soooooo many innocent people that are being found within the system. Killing is wrong I dont care who does it awhether it be me, you the state or Joe Blow at the end of the road and I personally think we should EXECUTE JUSTICE NOT PEOPLE. God is NOT dead and he has not chosen any of us to act on his behalf.

Oh Renee, You are sooooooooo RIGHT! ! ! ! ! Pro death penalty people think that execution is soooooo bad. It is the "ultimate" punishment. SO people go out and kill others to be punished by either sitting in a chair and frying for a few mins or laying down and going to sleep with a needle in their arm. I know and dont get me wrong that they suffer terribly for a few mins, but unless it is a botched execution it is only for a matter of a few mins. What is worse? To me it would be to sit behind bars and have to think about what I had done for the rest of my life. Prison food is enough to kill you.

(((((HUG)))))

(((((HUG)))))

(((((HUG)))))

Menolly

Caroline...I too believe a life sentence should mean "life" no chances of getting out! To me that would be a much better choice than death, especially knowing that there are flaws in the system and innocent men are sitting on death row!

Back to the one talking about the "ultimate punishment" and me saying Homicide is Homicide regardless. There is not any fairness in the system at all. I know a man (a friend) who was with a friend. They went into a bar in Birmingham AL and the one man shot and killed FIVE people and the man I know that was with him only took the money out of the cash register. Okay I know that is guilty by association. I accept that. The man I know is on DR in AL with no hope. His co defendant has been granted a new trial while my friend was denied.
I also live in a county where a man was at a bar, shot and killed a 23 year old and then cut his head off with a CHAIN SAW and threw his body out and his head in the river. This man was NOT given the DP he was given 25 years in prison which means in AL he can get out having served his sentence in a third of that. NO PROBATION OR PAROLE and people call this justice. I dont think so.

I dont think people who were co-defendents ie not the murderer should have the DP. But all actual killer should get at least LWOP. and for it to mean life.
oh and thanks menolly by the way the hugs are appreciated :)

Take Care

Caroline