I have been doing a lot of thinking on the topic of this forum. I know this has been brought up before, but it is one thing that haunts me because of the situation that my wife is in. I have been looking at the encounters she had with the police. Please understand, I am not totally anticop, but my respect for their positions has deteriorated a great deal. As well as the prosecutors/persicutors and the judges. Their refusal to identify petty non-violent crimes and there link to addiction. God they love it when they can bust someone for bouncing a bad check, when they know that the person is also a drug user. I have sat in the court rooms and listened... people who are brought up on charges of say check forgery who the cops, prosecutors and the judge can't associate with drug use, get off with suspended sentences and fines. But let the next person who is up on the same charges be an addict, boom they get jail and or prison time. Now the first person, might or might not ever do it again, who knows. The addict on the other hand may or may not ever do it again either. The problem is, the addict is paying the higher price, they are in jail/prison, with no help or very little help being offered. I witnessed a man in court who was up on this second conviction for check forgery be sentenced to attend some kind of class being offered in our local area.
Not to say he should not get some kind of counciling, it may help, but is he sick because he forged the checks? But the addict, who is sick and we all know needs help, gets tossed into the system and forgotten.
Things like this just pop into my head, and it makes me a bit angry.
So our loved one's who are addicts, they are nothing but cheap shots for the authorities.
Don't mean to be negative, this is just my vent for the day.

God bless

JR

I know exactly what you are talking about. Many times I had to sit in the courts in Detroit waiting for my husbands case to come up. Watching so many before him who even say they have a drug problem and no options are given, prison, jail, that is the answer. On the other side of the coin, would it be nice if they could convert some of the prisons to actually treatment centers. Long term treatment centers. There most certainly would not be a shortage of clients. The hard truth is there are many in prisons that arent even recognized as a drug addict because they bounced checks or stole something. They are thieves and no one even bothers to figure out why they stole. Most times its for drug money. It usually isnt to raise money for a good cause, it for the addiction. Most of these people would have never broken these laws if they didnt have the addiciton.

I Know Exactly Where You`re Coming From. I Use To Be One Of Those People Singing Praises For The Police. I Know Many Are Honest And Decent, I Also Have Seen First Hand The Very Corrupt And Cruel Side Of Quite A Few. And You`re Right, If You`re A Drug Addict And In Trouble With The Law, You`re Not Given Any Chances At All. I Personally Watched A Sex Offender Walk Out Of The Court And Ordered Not To Be Near Children...... Yeah Right. Had He Been An Addict Up On A Lesser Charge, He`d Be Doing 3 To 5 In Prison. What A Sick World This Is. Sorry, I Guess I Needed To Vent.

Li`l Sis.

I Know Exactly Where You`re Coming From. I Use To Be One Of Those People Singing Praises For The Police. I Know Many Are Honest And Decent, I Also Have Seen First Hand The Very Corrupt And Cruel Side Of Quite A Few. And You`re Right, If You`re A Drug Addict And In Trouble With The Law, You`re Not Given Any Chances At All. I Personally Watched A Sex Offender Walk Out Of The Court And Ordered Not To Be Near Children...... Yeah Right. Had He Been An Addict Up On A Lesser Charge, He`d Be Doing 3 To 5 In Prison. What A Sick World This Is. Sorry, I Guess I Needed To Vent.

Li`l Sis.

I know what you mean. We have all seen the injustice of our leagal system. I guess someone is trying to tell us we need to start doing something about it... of course the big question is; What?
Li'l Sis you vent all you want, that is what we are all here for.

JR

The problem not only lies with the police or court systems, its society in general. We, as a society have become so used to violence, murder, rape and various other crimes because of our environment. It is everywhere, popular tv shows, movies, news, and even video games. We have adjusted to it and its not 'a shock' to our sensitivity. But drug abuse is still something that 'most people" know nothing about and it scares them. We are scared of the unknown. A jury will give a person more time for intent to deliver than they will a convicted pedophile. Thankfully a judge decides most of the cases and isnt shockable anymore. The courts hear these cases on a daily basis. I would "NEVER" want to go before a jury for drug charges. Just my thoughts anyway....
:idea:

I Would`nt Want To Go Up On Drug Charges Either, Thank God I`m Not Addicted. Unfortunately Millions Are. Society Is Jaded And Still I Believe Judges And The Courts, Not To Mention Most Attorneys, Are Quick To Sentence These People To Prison. The Cure Is In Rehab., Not Prison. Treatment As We Know It Needs Alot Of Revamping. Hopefully Someday A Lot Of People Will Come Down Off Of Their Thrones And Realize That All Human Beings Need Help At One Time Or Another. We Reach Out To Everyone Else, Why Not These People? I Live In A Small Town Of About 4,000 People And About 75 Percent Are Addicted To Meth. It`s A Very Sad Situation!

Li`l Sis

bekael and li'l sis

I agree with what both of you are saying. I have seen it all myself. I must tell you that prior to meeting my wife. I was somewhat biased when it came to drug addiction. You notice I said addiction and not abuse. There is a difference! It may be a small difference, but there is a distinct seperation between the two. I won't get into the special seperation at this time, because I need to go to bed soon!

Those who are addicted to drugs, are ill. They are sick, they are much like people with cancer or any other illness. Our court system regardless of what state it may be in, is working in the wrong direction when it comes to drug addiction. They want to point out that some of these people commit crimes! Wow, they can really see that? Of course they do, they have to fund their addiction. Now, stop and ask yourself why do they have to fund their addiction? the simple answer is this... they are sick they are forced by their addiction to find ways to ease their pain. If they don't have the money in their pocket to buy, they have to get it some way! Am I right or wrong? OK, now lets move on. It is not right for them to steal or forge checks, or anything else. It's not right. It is wrong! But if you are thinking, if these people are in control of themselves would they steal or whatever? No probably not! But, they are being control by the drug or drugs they are on at the time. Their minds have been effected chemicaly by those drugs, which does not allow them to think or act as someone in normal society would. Am I right or wrong? OK, the next step if their mind is not working in a normal fashion what would you think the problem is? Is it the dope? Yes it is, but it is because it has changed the proper function of the chemical balance of their brain. Look it up... I'm telling the truth here! It don't matter if they are on alcohol, crack or crank, or whatever, their brains are being controlled by substance they are using. And they are using because their brain tells them they need more and more and more! Well, what does this tell you? It is simple, their brain is driving them by the chemical embalance they are going through! OK here we go again. What do we do when a person goes through a problem with their brain. Well under normal circumstances we give them help. But.... these are dopers, crack heads, pot heads, junkies whatever you want to call them, so screw them, we don't want them around in our society. They commit crimes to fund their habits, so lets lock um up and be done with them. Now think back a few years ago. People born with mental disabilites were shunned from normal society, they did not function in our "normal society"! They were locked away in mental hospitals and some are still there to this very day. It is just recently becoming aparent that those people should not be locked away but given an opportunity to come into our "normal society". But we are still looking at those with addictions as being not part of the normal society. God have mercy, what a mistake! They are still people, they are human, but they are ill. My God when is our American society going to wake up and realize that we are pushing them aside? These are people who could be saved! These are people who could be productive members of our so called "normal society", IF we helped them! But no, we can't do that! All of these people add up to one thing: Easy busts by the cops, easy conviction for the prosecutors and easy disposal by the judges. And all of that adds up to this, someone... politicians get themselves elected and reelected because of the number of dopers they put in jail. No doubt they put dopers in jail..... but here is the big question, why can't they put the dope sellers in jail? Why? It is simple.... the dealers are smarter than the cops (period the end). Well to some degree, a lot of the time the cops don't have the funding to go after the dealers... why is that you ask? Well maybe because our legal system is spending most of the money busting and prosecuting the poor addict, because they are the easy target! The system can claim more scores with the users! But the damn dealers are still out there providing their wears to more and more users.
I'm sorry, we could go on and on about this, but the bottom line is this, the addict who is sick and needs help is the loser in this political game. The dealers are still out their laughing their worthless heads off, the cops and the rest of the legal system think they are fighting the war on drugs, but all they are doing is this: They are pissin' in the wind! Until they stop the influx of drugs into this county, until they put a stop to illicit manufacturing of drugs , until top people in this country stop making their money off the drug trades, our loved ones who suffer from addiction are going to be the losers! They will be the one's who suffer as well as their families...... US!!!!!!
I hate all this as much as you do. But what do we do? The only hope we have is this.... We support our loved ones who are addicted, we give them all the love we can, we work for them, we pray for them, day and night, we ask God for his help for them. We must have faith that God is much smarter and know that he is not in this for the money as our government people are! We must show our loved one's that we trust God and believe that he will deliver them from their affliction and bring them back to us. We need to set the example for them, and show them that God will help those who ask for it. God as we know him is our answer! And that is the bottom line.

God Bless you and your loved ones who suffer from addictions!!!!!!!!

JR

I totally agree, what a great conversation. The addiction is in control of all decisions on the persons behalf, the person is no longer in control of any rational thought. The only goal of an active untreated addict is to get what the addiction needs at any cost. Its not a decision that the person makes, its a decision that the diseae makes. All human values no longer exist, that is the disease. And when an addict stands before a judge they should be treated as a person with a disease that effects their minds, their rational thoughts and they need treatment immediately and long term. The system is twisted right out of shape right now and its costing tax payers and families much more than the alternative solution both financially and morally.

Amen!!!!!!!!!! I Guess I Sounded A Little Upset Yesterday, And I`m Sorry For That. But I Have Absolutely no Patience For People Who Have No Compassion For The Sick! My Brother Started Making Drugs To Support His Habbit And Then Ended Up Just Doing Them. It`s A Wonder He Has A Brain Left. We Could Not Believe The Person He Had Turned Into. Now That He`s Clean, He`s A Little Different But That Ugly Person Is Gone. As Everyone Touched By This Can Tell You, It`s The Worst Heart Break. It`s Like The "living Dead" Walking Around. Just A Reflection Of The Person They Use To Be. And God Is The Only one To Help Us All Get Through This.

Li`l Sis

I am in total agreeance with all 3 of you, yet I see more negative actions on the parts of the police/courts/judges, then positive and I find myself not trusting the police,etc and sometimes I feel the cheap shots need to be put back in other's faces, let them feel the pain us addicts and their families go through. I just feel their are double standards in the system amongst people in higher power.

I apologize if this isnt as eloquent as the rest of ya'lls post but my mind sometimes goes faster than my fingers!:rolleyes:

Monkeyboi,
I think you do see what is going on. Those who are involved in our system from the cops to the judges either don't have an idea or they just don't give a darn. Actually I think it both situations. They don't give a darn because they have no idea what is really going on. The system is always telling people they should educated themselves. Well, yes I agree, but the system needs to be educated as well. When it comes to addiction and crimes related to addiction, it is just like you have toatlly confused them all. They refuse to understand the connection between the two issues. All they can think of is; here we got this addict, who just forged a check, so lets lock um up, they will think twice before they do that again! Yea Right! Well duuuuaaaa, maybe if they helped the person, and had some understanding of the illness of addiction and how it can be delt with in a positive manner, they might not ever have to see that person back in court room again. But even when court systems do offer some kind of minor help, and the person shows back up again, then they really want to throw the book at them. Well duuuuuaaa again, maybe if they would recognize that without proper rehab and support help, yes the addict will relaps in a lot of cases. Any help that could and should be offered, must be positive, it must give the addict/alcoholic the urge to want to stop, not the urge to want to use again. They must be given support not threats.
I have seen to many times that the courts solution to help is making the addict go do urine test every so many days, and giving them a sheet of paper to be signed at an AA or NA meeting. Sorry folks, that don't work. The addict has to want to stop, they need to hit bottom. We all know that. But the problem is this, even if the addict has hit bottom and really wants to stop, they need to be urged to do so, they need to be shown support, they need to be shown what to do and how to do it. Being court ordered into a 12 step program, just don't work that well, because the person feels out of place and alone. Even with ohters telling their stories, it is still hard for them to realize and accept that this might be the answer to their delima. Sometimes they need to taken by the hand and guided into it. Yep, somebody has to give them a clue. Somebody has to open the door. Somebody has to put an arm around them and say we are with you. And somebody needs to explain how this thing works, and then be willing to be there for them, when needed. Don't get me wrong, AA/NA both are excellent programs. But I have seen way to many times, the first timer walks in, they sit down and zone out, not having any idea what is going on. Help, that is the answer! Help every step of the way! Help to understand! Help, Help, Help! This is just a thought, before a person can run for Judge, they should be required to participate in these programs, they should be educated! Yep, they need help too.

God Bless

JR