I hear this comment over and over since we did not know each other before he went in prison. Usually my response is we only know any one person as much as they allow us to. If you are completely open to someone, no matter how you have met, and regardless of the circumstances mitigating your relationship, I believe that you will really know that person.

Just because I didn't know him before he went into prison doesn't mean that I don't know how he 'really' is. After all, he has metaphorphasized into someone else since he has been in prison (and well he was a boy when he got locked up, now he is a man).

Sometimes I get tired of hearing this comment, how do you take it when people say this? What is your response to them?

People DON'T say this to me, I think because I'm evil! :shrug: But let me say this. My mother used to tell my niece and I to meet a nice man in church. My niece took that advice and married a young man whose family had been long time members in our church. This "church guy" not only made her life miserable with his drugs, lack of interest in employment, lack of parenting skills but when it came time for them to divorce he got our family home as well!!!

My point is you can meet them in a bar or at church, school or work and you won't know what their actions and reactions to the good and bad that life hands your way until the moment it happens, incarcerated or otherwise.

Patty

Patty, I agree with you completely!! You can never really know someone until life presents you the oppurtunities to learn things about them.

I think that the people in my life who make this comment to me over look this factor and I cannot make them see it otherwise. Not that it bothers me that much, I just wish people tried more to see how happy he makes me! Oh well, such is life :)

I feel the same way! I feel that I actually know him better than most. I am sure that is hard for people to understand but often when you meet while they are incarcerated all you can do is "get to know each other". Most of the time I respond to people by letting them know that I am more aware of how my man is than they think. If they ever have told me something I didn't know, I let it roll of my back and discuss it (never argue) with him. I do often check those that think they know him "better" by telling them they know the old him. You are right....prison changes them. I have also, in the past, changed the focus and said "There is alot he has to learn about me as well".

I know him deep down. I know things about him from his parents talking to me, him telling me things, and just from what I view of his friends. So what, I didn't meet him while he was out, I might not have given him the time of day. Who knows what we will ever do, until it happens. You can't help who you fall in love with, or how you will be together for that matter. It's a learning process and, to me, the pressure is off somewhat with him being in while I met him. I can get to know him and him me before we even try to be together out here.

People are naturally short-sighted.My sister has been married 5 times.We are not allowed to mention anything about this to her(family rule#3-relationship comments prohibited)Every one of these guys was from the fraternal lodge that she and they belong to.Upstanding community members,etc.,etc.She has divorced them all.Do I believe it matters where and how you met your intended?And how well people think you know eachother?Hah.Husband 6 is in the works-same as it ever was.Supposedly he is a great catch!(like1-5)Oh,brother.

Wow I have been gone a few days and I come back and we finally have a forum or our own. I agree with all the comments you ladies made. I was married to a man for 10 years the I did not know at all. I knew some things about him, yes, I knew his family, I knew how he was raised, yes but he turned out to be a pathological liar, a thieif and a very nasty, evil person. The man I am in love with, I know through and through, what I learned is that the person you want to know, has to let you in to know...I know that in previous relationships I held back things I didn't want my partner to know. It's about feeling safe enough in your relationship to reveal things and know that you will still be loved and looked on the same. We have known each other for almost two years and I know him more and better than anyone who walks this earth, I know that...in answer to your question Whiskey, I people fear what they don't know and it isn't in my best interest to engage in these converstations for that sake of trying to teach them...I just let them have their opinions...

I am thankful that I did not know my husband before he went inside. He was a very angry drug addicted man. The prison system in essence saved his life. The man that he has become does not even remotely mirror the man he was. For those who knew him before, I say to them, you are the ones who don't know him because the man he was is not the man he is today!:p I got the best part of him!!!:thumbsup:

Do I know whether or not he will leave dirty socks on the bathroom floor or the cap off the toothpaste?
No.
Do I know how he handles pressure, what he believes about God, what he finds funny and what he finds weird, how he believes people should treat each other?
yes.
Works for me!

I was married to a pillar of society for 16 years. A retired Police officer. Supposedly a good man. WRONG abusive, two faced, a liar and a cheat.

Now I am with Raven, loving, supportive, truthful to a fault, and would never cheat. I tell people all the time, I have had a cop and a con. I will take the con anyday.

To say we can't know our men is crap. It would be more like an old fashioned courtship. learning about each other, our likes and dislikes.
How we want our life and love to be. All with out the confusion of a sexual relationship. (not that I am not looking forward to that confusion) You really learn the mens souls when you are involved in this type of a relationship. That's my opinion anyway.

I hate that! I hear that all the time! I keep going off on people and well most dont even talk to me about him anymore! LOL I wonder why. :)

I know that Rob is the best thing that has ever happened to me! He has treated me better than ANYONE I have ever been with and hes behind bars!!!!!!! I cant even begin to think about what it will be like when he comes home!!

Im glad i didnt know my guy before he went in, i most likely would not like him very much :) lol. Before he met me he had this worst attitude about everything. You know people can say whatever they like, because they really have no clue do they??? I dont let it bother me anymore. I know my guy inside and out, i know when he is having a bad day, when he is happy and when just to give him space. I sometimes think I know him better than his family.

Dont listen to people, people always seem to like to stomp on others happiness. Just concentrate on you and your guy and be happy :)

You know, it's funny . . . I met my boo since he's been incarcerated, and I don't think anyone has said that to me! Maybe because he and I are both in our late forties, and maybe they figure we must know what we're doing.

Either that, or they discuss it behind my back! LOL

We decided that we wouldn't tell anyone about us so I don't get that comment.

I want my family and friends to get to know him for the man who he is, not the "inmate him". People always put a stamp on people and that prevents them to know him like he really is.

We will probably tell them how we met some day in the future. But it's not in our best interest to do it now.

But I agree with you ladies. It's one thing to know how they take their coffee, if they snore, if they don't put the lid on the toilet down and quite another to know every inch of their dark side as well as their bright side.
We don't have anything else to do but to tell each other everything there is to know about us. And the distance makes this part easier too.

Well, I guess I must put my 2 cents worth in here. I have got the "But you don't even know him AND he is on Death Row Thing" a few times or maybe more than a few times. I just ask how many letters have you ever wrote to your husband? How many hours a day do you talk? I get some funny looks for that one. I know that Therapists who do Marriage Counseling have couples write to one another! Imagine That!

I know things about my Husband that no one has ever known and he is the same with me. You all know that when you share your inner most self, that is brings something pretty amazing out.

The people on the Outside sometimes get that and sometimes don't. I just let it roll off my back. I have lost some what I thought were "Friends" over my husband, but I sure don't miss them now.

Just smile and walk away if you don't feel like saying anything. We know what we have and that is all that matters!!! Stay Strong!!!

Prisoner or man who has never seen the inside of a cell...it doesn't matter. You can only know as much about a person as they allow you to. I have found this out first hand in the past.

Yes, I hear it all the time! "You deserve better than that". Do I? How can I possibly deserve better than Shawn? If there is such a man, his name must be Casper because I sure don't see him! He makes me want to be a better person. I don't know anyone else that makes me feel that way. I think it is a good thing to be with someone who makes you want to improve yourself. When people say this to me, I just think, "No, Shawn deserves better". I feel sorry for the people that don't want to get to know him. They have no idea that they are missing out on such a good-hearted, loving person. -Natalie

I was married for 17 years to a man I grew up with. That made no difference to how he ended up, and the hell he put me through.

Not many people understand just how much you do learn from letter writing. I feel I know Tony better than anyone I've known in my life, and that's longer than most of you here!! He poured his heart out to me when he was on the Row and I expect I did the same to him. The distance is nothing, anymore than the fact he's locked away from everyone. We know all we need to know about each other and that's all that matters.

Rose

This is how i feel about this you can meet someone on the street in a church at work anywhere. I get tired of hearing that you can do better and *God* wants you to have a man that is better for you. He looks like a convict in all his pictures. i tell him this and i keep reinforceing it with him that just cause you went to prison does not make you a bad man you deserve to be loved like anyone else and you have feelings just like everyone else. i did not know in the bible it say do not love an inmate.i never seen that verse. i keep trying to use examples with some people what would happen if your mate went to prison would you just leaveing him cause he went to prison? i give the girls at my job that thought to think about. i only know one other persons neiece is in this situtation she married the man that she is in love with and he has some years he is looking at and her family is on her like mines is.

I hear this comment over and over since we did not know each other before he went in prison. Usually my response is we only know any one person as much as they allow us to. If you are completely open to someone, no matter how you have met, and regardless of the circumstances mitigating your relationship, I believe that you will really know that person.

Just because I didn't know him before he went into prison doesn't mean that I don't know how he 'really' is. After all, he has metaphorphasized into someone else since he has been in prison (and well he was a boy when he got locked up, now he is a man).

Sometimes I get tired of hearing this comment, how do you take it when people say this? What is your response to them?

Well I only have two friends locally here who even know that I have a husband, much less that he is in prison. When I told them he was in prison, I wasn't faced with that question, the first question they asked was what were his charges. As if that made a difference. It doesn't to me, why should it to anyone else? I was honest and told them. No reaction. Just that they hoped that he has learned a lesson in prison. Obviously, they haven't a clue what "things" you learn in prison and they are not all good either.

Before sharing my relationship/friendship w/ anyone else, first, I had to adjust to the situation myself. Reason, for the most part, people often believe that a woman that gets involved with a man while he's incarcerated must be desperate, lonely, un-attractive, can't get anyone, etc. I didnt' fall into any of those categories; therefore, I just didn't know what to say if questioned why; therefore, I never disclosed too much about my situation.

The only people that knew about the true extent of my involvement with him was my family (my father was living at the time) and they were in agreement. My mother then informed me that some of her brothers had done time, her uncle killed someone and served time for it, etc. She told me to judge him for who he is and not what he had done. My sister responded as long as he makes you happy, I am for it; my brother just wanted me to take my time and my father did not have a problem w/ it.

I shared w/ my close friends that I correspondd w/ someone in prison; however, they never knew the extent and they did not think much of it b/c they knew of the men that I often dated. One friend even said, as long as you don't marriy him, that's o-kay. I know her response was based on the stereotype that an educated professional woman would never hook up w/ someone in prison, b/c people in prison can't be trusted, etc.

Well, when he came home he met those friends and for some reason, they never put two and two together (it could be that I only discussed him once or twice w/ them and it was 12 years until he came home) and they love him.

I also did not want to say anything b/c I didn't know where the relationship was going and at one point, there was little to no communication on my part. I wanted people to judge him based on who he is and not his past. My friends that know him love him as much as my family does and he has become apart of their family as well. There have been times that he has been w/ them and I was not around. They often comment, girl where did you find him, he's really nice and it's apparent that he truly loves you. When they ask where we met, I state that we met when I was during volunteer work w/ my job.

Also, when he came home I met family friends who told me that my friend is a great man and what you see is what you get and they weren't wrong.

I am at the point in my life that if anyone finds out about his background, I don't have a problem sharing. I am not going to offer any information.

From all of this, I have learned that you can't judge a book by its cover and it's important that you get to know the heart and soul of a person.

I don't know why folk think that all good men are in church, masjid, temple, etc. when infact, many of them have so much crap w/ them than someone who/is incarcerated.

I think that each person has to judge the situation/person for themselves. It might work for some and not for others.

I do not share where he is with neighbors, work, and most people I meet. That is a choice I am ok with, because I do not want to be judged or have my husband be judged.

I have told only CLOSE friends and MY mother, and they have seen with time that he is a great guy...My mother writes to him and has gotten close with him over the years when she initially thought I should not pursue it.

Thunder, I totally agree...

follow your heart and your true friends will stick by you. Family will come around too ;)
if not, then maybe you should re-evaluate those friendships!

You have to really live by your own standards in life, do what makes you happy!

I too have had people tell me I can do better and say little comments that are offensive here and there. I have one friend who was actually honest and said she just worried cause he is a lifer of him never getting to come home and me not having him to grow old and take care of eachother with, and it seemed like she truly did have my best intersts in mind. I too have been told I must be desperate and crazy.

It's something I hear a lot, and it has gotten to the point where I just don't listen. I may have met him after he was sent to prison, but I have gone to see him. I've known him for years now. We know each other inside out. But the people that generally make these comments about Jim and I don't know what it's like to have a loved one in prison. They don't understand.

When people are rude/dumb/ignorant enough to ask me a question like this I look them square in the eye and say "how did YOU know who your loved one was before you got involved with them?"

Getting to know our loved ones is NO different than anyone else starting a relationship, we just DO IT DIFFERENTLY!! Quite frankly I think we have an advantage because we got to know someone without the "physical" issues getting in the way!!

When people are rude/dumb/ignorant enough to ask me a question like this I look them square in the eye and say "how did YOU know who your loved one was before you got involved with them?"

Getting to know our loved ones is NO different than anyone else starting a relationship, we just DO IT DIFFERENTLY!! Quite frankly I think we have an advantage because we got to know someone without the "physical" issues getting in the way!!

I so agree with you. We also spend a lot of quality time with them sharing our lives and learning about each other. I know very few people on the outside who sit for hours at a time with their loved ones out here with them learning about them and talking to them. Most couples I know have so much going on in their life they have very little time for communication. Definitely not the time we have.

Having a loved one incarcerated gives us that time to learn about each other. Whether it is through visits, calls, or mail. For those of us who are fortunate to have all three it is a plus.

I've heard it before and it make me angry. Someone has even said "You know men in jail leave you when they come home." I had to tell her just like your man left you without a car, home, and two kids. We have been together 2 years Feb.22 and I have heard it all but I'm over what other people have to think about us. Like his cousins that are our age really don't approve of it because I have a baby by his brother. His brother is deceased and if he had been my husband it was to death do us part. I have my daughters father name tattooed on my chest and his brother has my name tattooed on his chest and his family (not immediate) had something to say about that. I say the he** with um cause he has been away 9 years and now they want to know what going on in his life. I just pray that things continue to go well through our struggles and don't worry about everyone opinions.

I am going to say some things that you all may not like. I used to get upset when people said all kinds of things and judged me when my husband was in prison (and I met him while incarcerated) But I found out the hard way, that there are very few success stories of people making it when the man is released. You can NOT get to know someone who is in prison. That is my opinion, that is my experience, and that is 99% of the case. I'm sorry if this is straight and to the point. I hate to hear it when another woman gets hurt by a man who promised the world to her...and she invests so much only to find out he's a liar, a thief, a cheat, and what my husband also was: an abuser who tried to kill me, who killed a fiance before me, and his first wife. They learn to be smooth talkers and GOOD liars. I hope someone proves me wrong, but so far, haven't found anyone.......
Blessings,
Marsha

Marsha ~ I'm sorry your experience was unpleasant sometimes things turn out that way even for couples who did not meet while one partner was incarcerated. It is true that many relationships, regardless of where they began will not survive. This is the chance one takes when one decides to give their heart to another.

Yes I met my man while he was incarcerated and he came home to me and was the person I had come to know, love and rely on during the time he was away. He never for one second misrepresented himself. Is he perfect? Nope but then again neither am I. After a 14 month bid, 16 months together in the free world and now a shorter bid to share our love remains constant. Having said that if the worst were to happen and our relationship were to end I would never for one minute regret or resent a moment spent with him.

All the best,
Patty

Patty, I do so agree with your response. My husband hasn't come home yet and at this point in time we are not sure when he will be able to come home, but I will never regret getting married to him whether it works out in the end or not. I have learned so much from him. I have also learned that I can love again. That is something that he taught me and for that I am greatful.

There are many divorces out here in the free world where people have met and married out here and prison was not involved.

I feel I know my husband quite well as he knows me. We have excellent communication skills.

Just my thoughts.

People DON'T say this to me, I think because I'm evil! :shrug:
Patty


This must be why I don't get it either, LOL :rolleyes:

My evil twin has arrived!!!! LOL Willsgirl, ain't it the truth though?

I know him SO THERE,
Patty

I really can not understand when people say this. Yeah maybe i have never woke up next to him or even seen him in regular clothing (that is so weird), but what the heck does that have to do with knowing someone? I speak to Jason more than I have anyone in my life. Usually I cant stay on the phone for more than 5 minutes with someone, but with him i can talk forever (at 50 cents a minute!) I have more letters from him in one year than all the letters i have ever gotten from every ex boyfriend in my life times 10000. At visits we have only each other for 6 hours!!! When was the last time anyone sat with their baby for more than 10 minutes? I know what he is really like much better than I can know what anyone else is like. people are married for 30 years and still do not really know their spouses. I know his dreams, fears, likes, quirks...i know everything about him! I think all relationships should be like this (well at least begin like this) because you really do get to know someone so well when you are forced to just sit and honestly talk. And the best part of it is that i have out entire love documented from the very beginning. Who else will actually be able to show thier grandkids, oh look at this letter, this is the first time grandpa told me he loved me.
I know i am rambling, but i know you ladies get the point. In a nutshell, when people say you dont know what he is really like, tell them to look at their own lives because they probably dont know their own spouses as well as we know ours. Really pisses me off, but i learned just dont allow it to be brought up because you can never explain this to anyone that hasnt gone through it, I may have even asked someone this question before this experience.

My evil twin has arrived!!!! LOL Willsgirl, ain't it the truth though?

I know him SO THERE,
Patty


:hifive: LOL girl, all I gotta do is give them the look :argh: and they move around :fb: LOL

i know exactually how he was before he went it.... he was the fast type with all those girls... a big playa for all those who understand the slang....

he has also told me that he doesn't want for me to judge him for his past, but for the person that i have fell in love with... i can't hold it against him since i didn't know him then but i honestly say that from what his family says... i have changed him into a new man !!!!

Got soooo sick of those comments.

I told everyone that if I am not deemed worthy of their love and support, and think they can stand in judgement of me (THE HOLIER THEN THOU TREATMENT), I will erase them from my life.

FOREVER.

I must say:That really, really helped.;)

Like we (same as other people) won't have enough grief in our lifetime.
I sure don't need my dear family and friends to rub in some.

What are they all thinking?? (If thinking at all)

Are they worried we'll miss out, so we are given some extra grief to make sure we get our share??

The most frequently asked question is if I am not worried he'll abuse me.
What kind of answer do they expect??? Yes, the possibility thrills me???

I think it is such a lack of respect when people ask questions they would normally NEVER ask anyone.

As if men who have never been convicted/incarcerated are all Prince Charming. Why don't they all go out on a little excursion to a few graveyards, and count the graves of all the women (and children) who once lived under one roof with such a Prince.

Why don't they read some statistics and stories about those who underwent the horrors inflicted upon them by all the 'decent' upstanding citizens, the pillars of a community.

Would they ask the same question if we fell in love with such a one??? Even if all the signs were there BEFORE the wedding??
No, most would only see the big house, the fancy cars, ignore the bruises untill it is too late.

But the loving kind man, who would never willingly, nor intentionally hurt anyone, the man who happens to be an inmate, the man who is the love of our live is seen as a monster....

Why don't people think......

Oh, and sorry everyone, just needed to vent.

Yes, I know what he's like, he knows what I'm like. How could we not know. All we CAN do is talk/write. I think we talked and written more in the past 7 years then the average couple who've been together for 50 years. That IS indeed one of the most frequently asked, -stupid beyond belief- questions ! How do we else maintain a relationship with an inmate?? By mindreading?? Scotty beaming us back and forth???

Very well said! I completely agree with you. I think the majority of these people are jealous because they will never have the love that we have. -Natalie

I get this all the time and I get so angry!! The other one that gets me is "Aren't you afraid of him"?? NO, I am not afraid of him. I believe with all my heart that he did not do what he is accused of and he is not violent.

Nobody gets any guarantees in life. Nobody knows what it is like to live with someone, until they do so. Yet people get married or start living together all the time.
What counts for me most is what we have right now. Because if we cannot enjoy the good between us now, if we cannot work through all may come up now, we have not got what it takes for us to be together when gets out, or more importantly, the years after.
We just look at it as slowly building a solid foundation of our relationship.

Believe me people only get a chance to say that once. I just remind them of my ex-husband of 15 years whom they all knew that ended up being a cheater and a liar with no honor. There are no guarantees in this life. What bugs me is that by putting down our man, they are really putting us down as too stupid to see if we're being played and too weak willed to resist their charms. I am neither. I didn't rush out and fall for the first guy who was nice to me and I didn't purposely set out to find myself a true love behind bars. I'm just glad I found him and no one is going to make me feel bad about it.

LOL girl, all I gotta do is give them the look and they move around LOL

LMAO! you ladies are good! ;) not evil!

What i want to know is what ever happened to people being happy for each other. No one ever says, "congrats on finding your love, i hope it works out", instead people just find negative things to say about everything. So sad...

I totally agree heismyangel. Why do they have to put conditions on support? I can't be happy for you unless you love someone I find acceptable. Really sad.

The most frequently asked question is if I am not worried he'll abuse me.
What kind of answer do they expect??? Yes, the possibility thrills me???


:haha: :haha:

I'm gonna have to quote you on that one when I get a FAQ like that!

:haha: :haha:

When people have asked me that (mainly my family), i have responded by asking them the same question about him and their own partners!! Then let them know that they need to take a look into their own relationships because whilst im using quality time getting to know my honey, their quality time is being used for nosing in my business and theyre missing something!

i am SO happy this forum exists! thanks to everyone posting... i am usually in the military forum, but i am the only one i know over there who met her guy while he was (is) inside.

of course, my parents were much less than thrilled that i was & am considering marrying an inmate; they even hate the military, which is salt in my wound. but the wound is healing, because i remind them, like many of you do, that i know plenty of guys on the outside (ones they have said they'd like to see me with, might i add!) who are maybe even nice enough guys, but would never put me before their own interests and are as likely to commit a crime as my fiancé ever was. and they're worried that my guy is not good enough for me??! how about am i good enough for him??! yep, i'm an educated professional adult woman, and he's a former marine who finished a semester of college and then messed up what were five years of honorable service, but he's loyal to a fault; is a truly selfless, caring, intelligent man of God; and loves me like i never thought any human could love me. to add to that, my best friend is married to his brother (we were friends since long before my guy even went to prison), and i have been calling his parents 'mom' and 'dad' since before the first letter passed between us.

every day i just have to pray for the softening of my family's hearts. i have to trust that God knows the truth and that He has redeemed my fiancé; the old has passed away and the man i know is a new creature. i have to have patience because, in time, my family will see that it has all been and will be worth it to wait for this man over any other. some very sweet people say he's lucky to have a woman like me; i say no--i am the one who is blessed beyond measure.

the bible says to guard your heart above all else, for it is the wellspring of life. this means don't give it away too easily--no matter whether to a free man or an incarcerated one! and, like a wise person said earlier in this thread, the bible does NOT say 'do not love an inmate.' in fact, one of the writers of the Word of God was incarcerated while he wrote most of his letters that are included in it!

peace to all of you!

I totally agree with those that say you dont know him, and you dont know how he is. I say well being married 10 years to someone who beat me to no end, and I met him in a laundry mat. A "christian" so to speak who made my life a hell. The only thing I can say that was good out of this joke of a marriage, was my blessed son. Other than that, I tell them that my baby is a million percent man, and takes care of me emotionally. So they can't judge just because he is in a different environment. I still love my husband regardless. No one can change that. And if something happens its my problem, not theirs.

I hear this comment over and over since we did not know each other before he went in prison. Usually my response is we only know any one person as much as they allow us to. If you are completely open to someone, no matter how you have met, and regardless of the circumstances mitigating your relationship, I believe that you will really know that person.

Just because I didn't know him before he went into prison doesn't mean that I don't know how he 'really' is. After all, he has metaphorphasized into someone else since he has been in prison (and well he was a boy when he got locked up, now he is a man).

Sometimes I get tired of hearing this comment, how do you take it when people say this? What is your response to them?

well to a point i agree...you DON'T really know what he's like until he comes home and allows you to really see things for yourself, but that is NOT a bad thing. i knew my hubby on the streets, but we only said hello and goodbye (he was the friend of my sister's neighbor) so we didn't get into a relationship until he was arrested. no...i DON'T know how my hubby looks when he wakes up in the morning, and no i DON'T know how wild he'll sleep when we sleep together in the same bed (will he sleep neatly or kick me out of the bed?!??!). i think it's something exciting to wait for, not something to be nervous about *unless you aren't really sure about your love anyway*. people don't say this to me though, i guess because i'm just so in control *as much as anyone can be* of my life and where it goes they don't ask. plus my hubby and i are really honest and open with each other, and people really support us more than ever now, especially since we've decided to be together regardless of what people say. and if they WANT to pose this question to me...i guess my only response would be, "well that's true to a point but we'll make it work." that's just because he has all of the basic qualities i need so i already know we'll be good together. everything else is minor detailing.

By telling them they best believe there's some stuff about their man that they don't know about, too, which puts you both actually in the same situation when it comes to knowing your man. By telling them they may know they man, but when it comes to what he could be capable of and would he go there, that they don't really know him.

By telling them so since we're dealing with that common, don't worry about my man and my relationship, WORRY ABOUT YOUR MAN AND YOUR RELATIONSHIP. :D And if they're not in one, tell them to remember your words for when they do get in one.

oh man! I was taking a break from studying for midterms (since I am 20 and in college right now) and I found this thread... I have been waiting to find something like this on PTO for some time now and I am so glad I did. I met my Matthew through a mutual friend after he was incarcerated and I'll tell you he's such an important and valuable person in my life that I don't think I could trade him in for the world. Now my father forbade I speak to him, and my mom was like you can talk to him but just don't let anything come of it. Well somethings kinda coming of it and I've been having such a rough time deciding if I should just dedicate to him and be celibate until 2011 or if I should keep exploring other options... etc. I really do feel like I know him better than anyone in the world, even his family sometimes, and I love him to death for the joy he brings to my life. When I wake up each morning thinking of him and fall asleep with his cologne on my pillow I know I'm hooked. And the negative comments of others really gets to me sometimes.
They can't possibly understand where I am coming from, and I am so glad to have found PTO to share and help me through the hard times in all this. Sometimes PTO makes me sad when I see all the "help me count down, 30 days left ticks" cuz I can't say it yet. I mean I am so happy for them but I want it too! But, As my Matthew said the other day when I told him about this girl in the Visit room whose man was getting out Monday "my Monday will come". And until his Monday comes I wanna be there for him in any ways that I can. To help, love, hold, and cherish him. Some days are harder than others... like today was turning out to be. But then I always remember how much he means to me and all the comments of others I try to just let "roll off my back" even though it does hurt that my family and friends don't approve.:(:D:)

Red, our Monday WILL come.

I knew my man before he went in and do you know that I live in the SAME apartment with him for 3 years and never knew he was a wanted man! Life brings you whatever, you just take it as it comes. I mean now that all his secrets are out I think now I know him better than he knows his self.

I have been w/ my man now for 5yrs, we have been married for almost 3. Yes we met and married behind those walls, and til this very day I still get the same thing. My only response is.....it's no different then when you are dating on the streets. You have to take the time to get to know someone!!! Sooo, we are still dating!!! Major factor here is.......is it's MY life!!!!

The only person who has made this comment to me was a female "friend" of Deon's, but come to find out she more or less was interested in seeking a relationship with him upon his release. Her comment to me was that I really didn't know him and I should wait until he gets out to be in a relationship with him because the way he is in prison may not be the way he is on the streets. A month or 2 later she writes him and he sends me the letter. She bascially begged him to love her and be with her when he gets out. Stated she just couldn't understand why he couldn't love her. Po' baby!

if i am in the mood to answer, because at times i just get irritated with the question but i will say you know, the way i see it, i have every chance of knowing him that i did the guy i was married to for years who ended up cheating on me and doing a lot of things i never would have thought he would do; so locked up or not how well do you really know someone? only as much as they let you. that usually just shuts people up.

the other day at work one girl said to me you know, when he gets out things will be different, you wont be the center of his world anymore.

sometimes the perceptions people have of what an inmates day is like amazes me

I hear this comment over and over since we did not know each other before he went in prison. Usually my response is we only know any one person as much as they allow us to. If you are completely open to someone, no matter how you have met, and regardless of the circumstances mitigating your relationship, I believe that you will really know that person.

Just because I didn't know him before he went into prison doesn't mean that I don't know how he 'really' is. After all, he has metaphorphasized into someone else since he has been in prison (and well he was a boy when he got locked up, now he is a man).

Sometimes I get tired of hearing this comment, how do you take it when people say this? What is your response to them?

He is not at all the same person he once was, so I don't think knowing him on the streets before he went in would mean "really" knowing him.

Fact is, I know the man he is now, today, as good or better than anyone else.

He's a lifer and may never get out, so I of course don't buy it that I'll never know the "real" him until he comes home...

Family & friends used to asked me:" aren't you afraid that he will hurt you once he get released? "I ask them , "can you asure me that the one walking free will never hurt me ?"
People have a great deal of problem to understand that not because someone is in prison ,makes him a monster. My babe is the most tender hearted man I have ever met in my life. I don't know him completely, but with every letter I get to know him a bit more. Sometimes these are things that I don't like, it is just part of his character. Beside, who is perfect?

We talk everyday, plan everything together, write long letters. I am on one side of the country and he is on the other. How do I know him? Through my heart...

and people do question it

I'm used to it now

I love him very much, and I pay no attention to the opinions of others

I realiize i am new to this forum but i have been writing to my fiance for over ten years. I know things about him that no one else except his ex wife new and she took those secrets to her grave. he is my best friend and knows every wrong decision and choice i have ever made in my 40 years of life. He made a mistake a very long time ago and it cost him his freedom. Who else can truly appreciate life than one who is incarcerated for such a long time. I think that michael and i would have loved each other a long time ago however it wasnt in gods plan for us then. Now we are totally committed to each other and our future no matter how long it takes for him to make parole. He loves me with all of his being and i could not ask for better from any man on the outside. 100 years ago people didnt have phones and they communicated through letters and stayed married for 50 or 60 years. What does that tell you? They truly knew each other. there are always horror stories and there always will be. you have to accept people at face value and dont make judgements on those of us who love people on the inside unless youve been there too.

how do you take it when people say this? What is your response to them?

I sigh and feel sorry for their stupidity. There are so many people that judge based on information that has no truth to it. They don't care to get to know these people they judge and condem them anyway. Anyone like that is gonna be a miserable, lonely, and never truly loved person in the end.

I just tell them that THEY don't know him and that THEY are not the one who has the right to make any sort of judgment about him. I know who he is on the inside now. That is the only thing that matters to me. I don't care what they think and will not discuss him any further with them. IF they continue, I leave. I don't have to listen to that crap, I even do this with my own mother.

Last night at the Kingdom Hall (Jehovah's Witness) one of the brothers pointed out that only Jehovah (God) knows everything about us since inception. We don't even know everything about ourselves, so how could we know everything about another person? I truly feel I communicate more with my incarcerated husband than all my friends communicate with their husbands who live with them. It will be very important for all of us to continue to communicate with our spouses when they come home as we do while they are incarcerated. I always tell my husband I'm still going to write to him when he comes home because sometimes I communicate better on paper....

Mrs. Bike

i think people are people no matter where they come from or where they meet.

I was with my man on and off for many years,and he still did me wrong when he went in for this last bid.It doesnt matter how or where you met,its either going to work out or not.If he does you dirty while in prison,he probably would when he was home,so whats the difference?I think most people just assume inmates are just looking for someone to pay their bills,and take care of things for them when they hook up with a penpal.But a person could just as easily be taken advantage of by someone they met at school,online,at church,etc....

Yes I went through all of that when we first met and fell in love. B Lots Of Love!ut I did'nt listen to anyone I followed my heart! They all say you really wont know him until you have to live with him 24/7. But he could'nt do anything to surprise me! I've been through it all!

i have to tell you that maybe those people are right, im saying that because i was where you are, i met my boyfriend while he was in prison and we wrote and visit, and talked on phone for over 2 years. he finally came home 6 weeks ago, and let me tell you he is not what he said he was, all i have to say is .....(empty promises, and sweet words). He lives with me, and we are having a really hard time making this relationship work, he says that he loves me, but his actions speak louder then words. I love him, and im not giving up yet, but i feel like he used me, and still is in a way. Over the years i sent him thousands of dollars, divorced my husband and lost residential custody of my kids, i cant even have my kids over by my house cuz he poroled here.I bought him a new car when he came home, and all he does now is stay out all night, and hang out with his boys, he's been home 6 weeks, but only 2 were happy ones. We havent made love in 2 weeks, so...... im just telling you to be careful! It might not be what you think it will be. I dreamt an impossible dream , to be with someone i really didnt know, all his words and promises turned out to be false, and i feel like a fool at times. H e says he will change and that he loves me, and that he just has to get adjusted to the real world again, he needs time to get everything out of his system, and everything will be ok, to just hang in there! but.... i dont know when that day will come, and i miss him, i miss the man he said he would be,the man he was when we met, the man he was for those 2 weeks when he first came home. I love him with all my heart, and i know you love your man too, just becareful, and dont give your all into this relationship, without knowing 100% that he is what he says he is, cuz' you will regret it, you will loose yourself , you will end up hurt. Im so depressed over this that i had to go medication. I wish you the best of luck, Let me know what happens, if you can please comment on what i wrote you. I dont mean to scare you, or tell you what you are doing is wrong , because i was there, i am just telling you my story, i hope all will be well for you and your love.

while they are incarcerated all you can do is "get to know each other".

This is so true. I get the whole "you don't know him" thing all the time...especially since I haven't ever had a chance to meet him in person. Truth is, he's been completely up front with me about everything I have asked about, even if he didn't want to be honest at first. He's told me everything about his charge(aggravated indecent liberties w/ a minor, he was 18 with a 15 year old girlfriend). He told me about his son right off the bat, and when he found out he also had a daughter, he told me all about her. I know everything about his family (except names). I know his favorite movie, favorite time of year, favorite NFL team. The only thing he hasn't shared a lot of was about his childhood but, then again, I have never asked about his childhood.

I know there are bound to be little quirks about his personality that are bound to drive me nuts, but then again, you get that with anybody. I understand that the people that tell me these things are only trying to protect me, but honestly, I've done enough "playing it safe" and I feel so deeply for this man that I feel a need to take a little bit of risk. I haven't told him how I feel about him yet, but I think I'm going to. After all, there are only 2 outcomes...he could be the love of my life, or he could break my heart and I would rather take a risk with him breaking my heart than never know if he was the love of my life.

Hmmmmm, well, after being married for a very long time (26 years) to another man, I can say that that statement is true. You can't really know someone until you live with them and even then, it still takes years and years of living with them to get to know them intimately. All the little idiosyncracies that come out once you truly get comfortable with someone, living day in and day out.
We get to know our men on the inside as well as we can under the circumstances. I believe that these men probably reveal more of their hearts to us than men on the outside do but again, this is due to the circumstances of the relationship. When you are denied that day in and day out intimacy, and I'm not talking about sex here, then you do the best with what you have available. In our cases, its limited visitation, its limited phone calls, and letters.
I, of course, can only speak from my own experiences, but I believe this relationship has more validity to it than the long term marriage I have. This time I am getting a full glimpse into this man's heart and should the day come that he ever walks out of those fences, I feel we will be starting off our life together on a much more stable basis. We have had to develop a relationship built on something other than strictly a sexual attraction. We have had to really work at keeping the communication open and try to face things openly and honestly, but perhaps this is due to the type of sentence he has.
When people make remarks like the basis for this thread, I think they do so out of ignorance and concern. You can't pay attention to all the ignorant remarks that get thrown our way when people find out about our relationships or you will make yourself absolutely crazy.

i think people are people no matter where they come from or where they meet.
I watch the Link channel which is an international television channel (I can't put up with ALOT of the senseless/mindless American television programs produced and shown here in the states). From what I see, I have come to agree with what you've said -- no matter where they come from, the same issues we have here are there -- people are people.

Got soooo sick of those comments.

I told everyone that if I am not deemed worthy of their love and support, and think they can stand in judgement of me (THE HOLIER THEN THOU TREATMENT), I will erase them from my life.

FOREVER.

I must say:That really, really helped.;)

Like we (same as other people) won't have enough grief in our lifetime.
I sure don't need my dear family and friends to rub in some.

What are they all thinking?? (If thinking at all)

Are they worried we'll miss out, so we are given some extra grief to make sure we get our share??

The most frequently asked question is if I am not worried he'll abuse me.
What kind of answer do they expect??? Yes, the possibility thrills me???

I think it is such a lack of respect when people ask questions they would normally NEVER ask anyone.

As if men who have never been convicted/incarcerated are all Prince Charming. Why don't they all go out on a little excursion to a few graveyards, and count the graves of all the women (and children) who once lived under one roof with such a Prince.

Why don't they read some statistics and stories about those who underwent the horrors inflicted upon them by all the 'decent' upstanding citizens, the pillars of a community.

Would they ask the same question if we fell in love with such a one??? Even if all the signs were there BEFORE the wedding??
No, most would only see the big house, the fancy cars, ignore the bruises untill it is too late.

But the loving kind man, who would never willingly, nor intentionally hurt anyone, the man who happens to be an inmate, the man who is the love of our live is seen as a monster....

Why don't people think......

Oh, and sorry everyone, just needed to vent.

Yes, I know what he's like, he knows what I'm like. How could we not know. All we CAN do is talk/write. I think we talked and written more in the past 7 years then the average couple who've been together for 50 years. That IS indeed one of the most frequently asked, -stupid beyond belief- questions ! How do we else maintain a relationship with an inmate?? By mindreading?? Scotty beaming us back and forth???Love the way your mind works! Takes a smarta** to know one I guess. And it's true that just because they are in prison people become blooming idiots and don't understand that the rules of engagement between people are the same. I mean when people out here meet online they could fall in love with someone on another continent and be separated by miles but wouldn't get some of the stupid responses we do. Also feel that our closeness under the circumstances makes us like aliens compared to relationships out here that like most of these women say don't have the bond we share and there is a lot of jealousy behind that.....maybe some fear.....maybe some women only want to know whether he leaves the cap off the toothpaste and don't really want to know how their men think....I'm an English major so you know I gotta love the man who can express himself in letters. Maybe one of those old men of letters I studied in school would understand our brand of love. Like one woman said most couples married 50 years haven't talked as much to their men as I have in the two years we've known each other.

Patty, I agree with you completely!! You can never really know someone until life presents you the oppurtunities to learn things about them.



I believe this, but to me it counters your perspective. You've not had the opportunity to see him except in one setting, in a particular state. That's my whole caveat with MWI.

Who I'd 'be' under stress, duress, dependency, and all that goes along with being a prisoner,,,,,,,I'm sure I'd be a little or a lot different than how I am in regular life.

I am not saying your guy is not who you think or any of that. Patti is a great example, and not the only one, of knowing exactly who she was dealing with.

There are many more though, that are not so lucky. I think your friends are just trying to caution you, and it's something to keep in mind, that's all.

General, my friends would say the same about a man from letters only no matter what - online long-distance, military man, whatever. I met a female friend from PTO and all her friends cautioned her I might be a man wanting to kill her, lol. So it's not just prisoners.

Of course I dated a man in RL for 4 years and didn't know many important things about him, so it can go either way!

i had to come back and edit my last response to this thread...i NOW know what my hubby looks like when he wakes up! :p

Yeah, how does he look? Does he have a cute sleepy face, or does he wake up with mangled hair like he went through some type of storm? That's how I look, with long hair that's fine, but a lot of it. I don't look human until I brush it ;-)

he got that "blown away by a torpedo" look lol. he also has very long and very fine hair...and when he wakes up it is a natty mess! and he also looks really gruffy...and not too happy.

i call him bear. LOL.

his daughter was like, "he likes to sleep with the sheet/blanket OVER his head...so don't be surprised if your feet are cold in the middle of the night...cuz he pulls all the sheets UP towards his face!"

so yeah...now i know to wear socks to bed too :p

I don't take this so personally anymore. So what if we don't know exactly "who" he is? We will find out eventually one way or the other. As I see it now... that's part of the magic about MWI relationships isn't it? :D

I don't encounter it really. Well, no... when I went to my uncle to marry us, he pretty much said that. But he's the only un-jail-related person that knows... But we're not close enough for his opinion to actually matter.

My friends that are still there, they know, they don't say anything either way, and if they did, it wouldn't matter.

I agree! I don't let anyone tell me what to do especially my dad he is like you're too young to be involved with a scumbag and it angers me to think that he can't just let it be!

I usually tell people that you never really know a person. People will only let you know and see what they will allow you to.

he got that "blown away by a torpedo" look lol. he also has very long and very fine hair...and when he wakes up it is a natty mess! and he also looks really gruffy...and not too happy.

i call him bear. LOL.

his daughter was like, "he likes to sleep with the sheet/blanket OVER his head...so don't be surprised if your feet are cold in the middle of the night...cuz he pulls all the sheets UP towards his face!"

so yeah...now i know to wear socks to bed too :p

LOL! I can't be found in the AM underneath my hair :p. Grumpy too. Hint: coffee helps;)

I really dont think anyone should get angry at a friend if they are concerned.A close friend of mine many years ago married a guy in prison and as soon as he got out he went back to his ex and HER friend who she used to carpool with to the prison with well HER MAN stabbed her 18 times and killed her when he got out so I know now when she shakes her head about me getting close to an inmate she knows from experience.I dont believe you know them as well as you would on the outside.Not to say Im not willing to take a chance but I dont think anyone should fault a friend for voicing a concern.

My response to people who say to me "You don't know what he is really like" is....
And neither do you so back up before I cuss you out.:angry: :argh:

My mom is the only one who ever said that to me. Ten minutes after mom met her, she pulls me aside and says, "You're right, I love her!" And I never heard that again.

Now mom loves her so much she sends her letters every week, and emails me every other day to see how she is? Talk about doubt dissapearing!

awwww... that's nice to hear about your mom bigdaddy~!!!

To the question... I've heard it a lot, but honestly I don't think any MWI knows exactly how their SO really is on the outside because people change (sometimes good sometimes bad) while they are locked up. I think personalities are a little skewed when you are in that environment. My boyfriend always tells me he is sooo different on the streets, and I say "how?" (besides the robbing and terrorizing lol) He says he's more personable and outgoing, his family has told me the same thing about him, so sometimes it isn't a bad thing not knowing exactly who the person is.. I've heard from a lot of successful MWI's that it can be a pleasant discovery.

The bottom line for me is 1. values are values, belief systems are belief systems, yours either match with your SO or they don't, and if they don't it doesn't matter who that person is, it probably won't work in the long term. AND 2. Common traits like "similar senses of humor or same interests" can bond and tie people for life no matter who they are... All of my dearest friends are completely different types of people from me, but the one thing we all share is laughter, humor and good times. So even if you don't know who she or he really is... go with your gut if you can laugh and they make you happy, who cares!

I really dont think anyone should get angry at a friend if they are concerned.A close friend of mine many years ago married a guy in prison and as soon as he got out he went back to his ex and HER friend who she used to carpool with to the prison with well HER MAN stabbed her 18 times and killed her when he got out so I know now when she shakes her head about me getting close to an inmate she knows from experience.I dont believe you know them as well as you would on the outside.Not to say Im not willing to take a chance but I dont think anyone should fault a friend for voicing a concern.

Totally agree :thumbsup:

awwww... that's nice to hear about your mom bigdaddy~!!!

To the question... I've heard it a lot, but honestly I don't think any MWI knows exactly how their SO really is on the outside because people change (sometimes good sometimes bad) while they are locked up. I think personalities are a little skewed when you are in that environment. My boyfriend always tells me he is sooo different on the streets, and I say "how?" (besides the robbing and terrorizing lol) He says he's more personable and outgoing, his family has told me the same thing about him, so sometimes it isn't a bad thing not knowing exactly who the person is.. I've heard from a lot of successful MWI's that it can be a pleasant discovery.

The bottom line for me is 1. values are values, belief systems are belief systems, yours either match with your SO or they don't, and if they don't it doesn't matter who that person is, it probably won't work in the long term. AND 2. Common traits like "similar senses of humor or same interests" can bond and tie people for life no matter who they are... All of my dearest friends are completely different types of people from me, but the one thing we all share is laughter, humor and good times. So even if you don't know who she or he really is... go with your gut if you can laugh and they make you happy, who cares!

Couldn't agree more. It IS a pleasant discovery and fun. It's like a second "honeymoon phase". I really don't think this should be seen in a negative way; "not knowing him completely".

My man was my first love and we haven't been together since 93. We have better conversations now than we ever have. The trouble we get into is the "what if we had this relationship then? Would we be in this situation now?"

this is a amazing thread! I have never seen anywhere as much arguments as I did find here, so much I agree with.

I get to hear such things of course over here as well, in all kind of forms. why I love my Man, why he is in prison for and and and....

I first answered them honestly... now after 5 years, I just say he is my Man. I try to get married (wish us luck, beginning of march)....
yesterday at a staff meeting I got asked how to handle if he does not get out? I have not had an answer to that.
after reading the threat here I have the answer: it is a question back. how you handle if your husband passes tomorrow?

I guess best answers to end such conversations are questions back. so i am just smiling and looking forward to our visit end of Feb!

thanks a lot to all of you for your statements! there are things we cannot understand until we experianced them! I am learning a lot, most of all to walk on in my life! and to smile! :) for me I have the best man I can have, so the only better can be, he will be able to come home! he is the best what ever did happen to me!
.........but yes, I would love to be with him so very very much without guards, limited time, limited kisses and and and.... you all know this feeling much to well. it is just what is going along with the relationship we have, as "we depend so much from others".

one day, the most we will enjoy is to be together and nobody telling us when and how long to kiss and what to wear! then we deal with "ringing neighbors in the wrong minute", the kids are home at noon time and they want to eat, visits they just want to pass.... hahaha!!!!!

thanks a lot..... :)

No one has come at me that way yet. But to that comment, I'd say that he doesn't "know what I'm really like" either but that we are ready for whatever challenges that may face us. It's called love and commitment.

Editing my post to say that I really like your post, Shush. I very much identify with your feelings! After spending our entire relationship under surveillance, we so look forward to having time alone, and we hope that day does come!

Blesssings,
Patience

This is a wonderful thread. You can gather strength and inspiration from everyone on here. It's good to know that we're not alone in our situation, but it's empowering to know that we can make our own choices and love whom we choose to love regardless of what others say about our incarcerated loved one. Love knows no bounds.

yea no one tells me this either because i choose not to tell them what is going on. it is my and his life and no one else

My question is do you know any of them? Male or female in or out? You can't really say that you know truly know anybody. I wonder why do they choose to say that specifically to someone who has been or is incarcerated.

Brwnis, some people even ask "do you really know him/her?" when it comes to meeting people online. When it comes to the incarcerated, the majority of society holds inmates as being good-for-nothing liars who can talk smooth lines, and that since they're locked up, they deserve to be there. It's a narrow way of thinking, and really, the question can apply to us too: "does our loved one really know us?"

I agree with ILoveLeo--- in that It's important to discern who is asking out of genuine concern, as opposed to someone who is asking because they look down at you for your relationship with an inmate.

my opinion on this....

there is no guarentees on any relationship, not even friendships, I can tell from experience that this statement hold true...
I was married to my ex for 15 yrs, met him on the streets, but never knew him because people are always changing. my ex best friend of 25 yrs lied and did some bad things behind my back, and never met her on the inside either. I feel that we are MWI women...we have one thing that most lack and that is 100% communication... my husband and I learned more about each other then I know about people ive been around my whole life...
Dont let others bring you down, remember you will come across people who will judge...

I agree with Kari - I've had several best friends in my life for years then all of a sudden the friendship was ruined over a lie someone (other than the 2 of us) came up with... the simplest thing can change a person! You never know what could happen with anyone and YOU take a chance when loving anyone, no matter where they are in their life. At first, I felt I didn't want anyone to know "my business" about dating an inmate, but then I felt like "keeping it to myself made it seem like I was ashamed or something" - so now anyone who MATTERS in my life KNOWS all about Chris and our plans to marry, etc! Everyone takes risks - just b/c our loved ones are in prison, doesn't mean anything! I could marry Chris and be together happily for one month or for 40 years! My boss met his wife and proposed after 2 weeks... how well do you really THINK you can know someone after 2 weeks??? BUT you know what - they've been happily married for over 40 years now! So every situation is different - do what makes YOUR HEART SMILE and let the others say what they want - it's only words!

Best of luck to ya!

I don't believe that you can ever truly know another person. I lived with my ex for well over ten years, and at the end of our relationship he did some very ugly things that I would never have believed him capable of. All we can do is hone our instincts, choose the right people to put faith in, and take a lot on trust.

I might not know how Honey behaves in traffic, but I know how he reacts when the phones are down. I don't know how he'll be when the kids mess up his stuff, but I know how he behaved in the past when his mom destroyed something he wanted to keep.

I don't fool myself into thinking that he's the perfect man or that we have a perfect relationship. But he's a good man, and we have a good relationship.

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