Hello everyone,

I am a teacher in an adult education program for former prisoners. I am interested to know what kinds of educational opportunities currently exist in New York state prisons. I know that the loss of Pell grants effectively ended most college programs inside and I know that there have been a lot of cuts in GED-type programs.

Are there people out there that have had direct experience with education inside, either as a student or as a teacher/tutor?

Thanks for your help,
Eric

I wish I could help you. When I ask hubby about schooling in prison he says it's a joke, so I assume there is no "real" teaching going on in there.

Jennifer,

Thanks for the response. My impression, even though I haven't seen it with my own eyes, is that the education that is happening in prison is very limited and has more to do with control than actual education. I'm hoping to gain a better understanding of what is actually happening.

I am also very interested in self-education in prison. If anyone has any examples, please let me know.

Cheers,
Eric

My husband earned his BA in Sociology inside. That was in the mid-late 80's. He is currently in Wyoming where they moved the college program, what's left of it...sigh. It has been mauled nearly to death.
I think he said the state,basically, closed down their program except for guys who needed just a few more credits, and used federal funds to set up another smaller program. I remember reading that, amoung other new rules, that inmates had to be 26 or younger to be able to qualify for the program.
I don't have a lot of detail but my guy was very very invovled in tutoring and the college programs offered before they starterd shutting things down and it was very difficult for him when things ended at his former facility.
He has stated there is no rehab in facilities unless the individual decides to rehab themselves.
I have two articles written by an inmate friend of his, a brilliant man who works in the college program and has for years and years, related to the importance of college education and it's relationship to recindivism, etc. They are excellent articles, we are waiting and working on the right time, place and people to release them.
Caprione

Caprione,

Thank you for the information. What a shame that your husband isn't able to participate in education anymore. Giving inmates opportunities to give back is one of the things that is so easy, it's hard to understand why anyone would be against it.

Have you heard of Howard S. Davidson? He helps with the Journal of Prisoners on Prison. It seems like your husband's friends articles might be appropriate there. The web site has past issues:

http://www.jpp.org

Thanks for your help.
Eric

Eric,
I would like to welcome you and your class to Prison Talk Online. We're glad you are here and proud to be included in your curriculum. I came across the class syllabus and found it interesting to say the least.

I am not from New York so I don't have any personal experience with that system but I have been in the Feds and know some about the Texas Prison System.

In the feds, most 'teaching' is done by other inmates, though they did have single courses thought by teachers from a nearby university. Problem with that is if you were not 'local', the prices were Ridiculous! $800.00-$1,000.00 for out of state inmates for one course is just not feasible. It was over $240.00 for me and I happened to live close enough in Texas not to have to pay the out of district/state fees.
Only one class at a time was offered and building up actual credits towards a degree just isn't possible - not unless you are there for 40 years or so..

The class I took was Government 1301.. The instructor was actually very adept and a great guy, but he made too many exceptions to let everyone pass, so no real pressure was ever there. Nothing like any of the outside college courses I had previously taken.
Our instructor also was pretty well versed in the prison system and trends.. He stated (and it's pretty obvious) that we are no longer in the rehabilitation phase, but in the throw them away with no rehab and education phase. He showed trends dealing with this going back 35 years.. It probably will turn again in about 6 more years according to his predictions.

In the Feds, if you work for UniCor, they sometimes pay for these classes.

Hopefully someone will come by that has more experience with the NYS system.

Good luck and again, welcome to Prison Talk Online (class)!

David (Fed-X)

Hi Eric and another Warm welcome to PTO. You asked for examples and I think this gentleman is one of the unique cases for becoming educated in the New York Correctional system. He is still continuing to 'educate' and is working for policy changes in the criminal justice system.

Edwin (Eddie) Ellis, host of On the Count!, is president of the Community Justice Center, Inc., a New York criminal justice advocacy organization and is a consultant for the Soros Foundation's Open Society Institute, Criminal Justice Initiative. He served 25 years in prison for a crime he did not commit and has always maintained his innocence. He is a writer, lecturer, community activist and former leader of the Black Panther Party. in 1967 he was targeted for "neutralization" under the FBI CounterIntelligence Program (COINTELPRO), resulting in his arrest and imprisonment. While in prison, he acquired a Master's degree from New York Theological Seminary; a Bachelor of Science degree in Business Administration, magna cum laude, from Marist College; an Associate in Science degree in Para Legal Studies from Sullivan County Community College; and an Associate's degree in Liberal Arts from the State University of New York (SUNY).

http://www.wbai.org/programs/onthecount/index.php


Some interesting facts and statistics I found on the New York System stem from a report 5 years ago, but you can imagine that the 'trend' is still on-going today. Sometimes I wonder with all the RESEARCH and $$ spent to show what can/will be effective, there is little change to apply these findings into practice...

This study can be found at:

http://www.cjcj.org/pubs/ny/nysompr.html

New York State: 700 Million Dollars Pumped into Prisons;
600 Million Slashed from Colleges Since 1988, Study Says
More African Americans and Latinos Go "Upstate" to Prison than to College:

Young People of Color, Non-Violent Offenders Hardest Hit by Growing Trade-Off

NEW YORK, NY -While New York State's prison spending has grown by $761.3 million over the last ten years, state allocations for state and city colleges in New York have been slashed by $615 million, resulting in an almost dollar for dollar trade-off, according to a Rockefeller Foundation-funded study to be released December 1 by the Correctional Association of New York and the Justice Policy Institute (JPI), a Washington, DC-based think-tank.
People of color and non-violent offenders have been hardest hit by the state's shifting priorities - which result, in part, from the 1973 Rockefeller Drug Laws that introduced harsh mandatory minimum sentencing laws for drug offenders - says the study, New York's State of Mind: Higher Education vs. Prison Funding in the Empire State, 1988-1998.

More African Americans have entered prison for drug offenses than have graduated from State University of New York (SUNY) every year since 1989, according to the study, and almost twice as many Latinos were locked up for drug offenses as graduated from SUNY in 1997. More than 62 percent of people sent to New York prisons last year were convicted of non-violent offenses, with drug offenders accounting for 47 percent of convictions.

"This study spotlights a counterproductive shift in government priorities that has had a devastating impact on young people of color - and completely failed to make New York safer," said Robert Gangi, Executive Director of the Correctional Association of New York and co-author of the study. "The money we spend locking up non-violent drug offenders would be better spent educating those young people in New York's universities."

Each prisoner in the New York prison system costs taxpayers $30,000 -enough to pay tuition fees for nine students at SUNY or City University of New York (CUNY), the study found. Hikes in tuition fees - which have doubled at CUNY since 1988 - have disproportionately affected families of color, it notes, with current fees at SUNY representing 25 percent of the median income for white families, but 42 percent of the median income for African American and Latino families.


EDUCATION IS EFFECTIVE - the more education that a prisoner receives, the less likely that s/he will return to prison. Studies in the Federal and New York prison systems showed a consistent proportional relationship between higher education and lower recidivism.

In New York, only 26.4% of the prisoners who earned a degree returned to prison compared to 44.6% of those who participated in a college program but did not complete a degree. (David C. Clark, Analysis of Return Rates of Inmate College Program Participants. NYS Department of Correctional Services, August 1991)

http://www.changingminds.ws/02_executivesummary/03.html

Marymount Manhattan College appears to be serving now a degree granting institution to prisoners.


Center for Redirection Through Education which works to develop college programs in prisons throughout New York State:

Center for Redirection Through Education
P.O. Box 481
66 Main Street
Bedford Hills, NY 10507

Phone 914.242.8775
Fax 914.242.8742

Eric,
Thanks but that link appears to be a Canadian publication and I wonder 1. If the publisher would even accept USA (NY) articles? 2. Would the articles have any relevence in the reader population if the Journal did accept them?
Does anyone know of Journals or newsletters around NY or the Northeast that would be interested in printing quality and informative articles geared at getting people to see (and act on) the truth about higher education in prison systems?
thanks,
Caprione

PammieK and Fed-X,

Thank you so much for the welcome and all the information. Fed-Ex, thanks for checking our web site. Our computer class meets on Thursday afternoons from 1-3pm EST. We will be brainstorming ideas and posting messages all over the forums. I'm excited to see the kinds of information that will be traded back and forth.

Though I did know of Eddie Ellis (He has a great show on WBAI), I didn't know of his experience with education in prison. I will look into his story a little more. And the study Changing Minds by Michelle Fine and company is a great example of participation between people outside and prisoners to do some advocacy together.

Has anyone seen "The Last Graduation" about the end of the Pell Grants for prisoners? I just saw an excerpt. Very powerful.

Looking forward to more communication,
Eric

Eric.,

You may find some current information on the status of educational programs in NY by contacting the National Lawyers Guild. The NLG sponsors the National Prison Project, which has an ongoing concern with educational programs available to prisoners in particular systems.

One of the first 'out'-ings I went on was to speak as part of a program sponsored by NLG at Amer. Univ. The NPP was briefing a student associate chapter there on the particulars of the educational system (as it stood) in prisons. I was there to startle them, and discuss the particulars of Legal Aid education (the Kentucky Model) as a best practice.

life2thesequel,

Thanks for the information. I found the National Lawyer's Guild, but I wasn't able to find any information about the National Prison Project. The ACLU has a project of the same name, but I don't think that's what you're referring to.

Also, what is the Kentucky Model for Legal Aid education?

Thanks for the help,
Eric

Hi Eric:

Funny, My name is also Eric.

I spent slightly more than 7 years teaching Pre-GED and GED classes as a teacher's aide at Green Haven in upstate NY. I throughly enjoyed the experience and yes, the entire education experience has become abysmal in comparision to what it was prior to the Pell grants and TAP being stopped for higher education. There are many other problems that education in prison face; ie., circular education because if a student gets keeplocked, they have to start over again, only a handful of teachers are serious about educating inmates, and it's hard to motivate someone with 75 years to life that education is important when inmates are just trying to get by and avoid violence.

You might find it interesting that I also happen to have graduated from Marist with a BA as part of the last graduating class given in New York's prisons in 1995, and had a cameo appearance in the movie "The Last Graduation," about how the government decided that higher education was a waste of taxpayer dollars for prisoners.

If you have any specific questions, please feel free to contact me.

Eric


Hello everyone,

I am a teacher in an adult education program for former prisoners. I am interested to know what kinds of educational opportunities currently exist in New York state prisons. I know that the loss of Pell grants effectively ended most college programs inside and I know that there have been a lot of cuts in GED-type programs.

Are there people out there that have had direct experience with education inside, either as a student or as a teacher/tutor?

Thanks for your help,
Eric

This man was in a NYS facility for over 16 years and he got a college education before they took it away from them!Sean Pica Story (http://www.newsday.com/features/ny-p2cover3472981sep30,0,6809842.story)

My husband was taking college courses when they took it away so never got to finish...it makes me so angry...but on his own he reads alot!!!

thanks for the sites to look up, great info here, I wonder if this person is still around...the one who started this thread...

Hi Eric:

Funny, My name is also Eric.

I spent slightly more than 7 years teaching Pre-GED and GED classes as a teacher's aide at Green Haven in upstate NY. I throughly enjoyed the experience and yes, the entire education experience has become abysmal in comparision to what it was prior to the Pell grants and TAP being stopped for higher education. There are many other problems that education in prison face; ie., circular education because if a student gets keeplocked, they have to start over again, only a handful of teachers are serious about educating inmates, and it's hard to motivate someone with 75 years to life that education is important when inmates are just trying to get by and avoid violence.

You might find it interesting that I also happen to have graduated from Marist with a BA as part of the last graduating class given in New York's prisons in 1995, and had a cameo appearance in the movie "The Last Graduation," about how the government decided that higher education was a waste of taxpayer dollars for prisoners.

If you have any specific questions, please feel free to contact me.

Eric

i read your letter concerning education in the new york facilities, as a mother of a young son (20) who has 5 years to life and would like to further his education (has GED) who does he need to contact at the prison? He is very timid about asking for anything, he does not believe that the officers care and do not want to help with anything, do they have counslers that can help? I am really concerned that if my son has nothing to do with his time he will lose it mentally, this is someone who really would use the education to his benefit if he was given a chance. Pads Mom

My husband was able to earn his Associates Degree before the funding went away. Right now he is doing a correspondence paralegal course that is accredited to take the exam once he comes home, which we pray will be within the next 3 years. For the life of me I can't recall the name of the school. I will check with him and post it when I have it.

Hey, who is this Erci person teempaddy?

nuroswife...

That is a wonderful thing and a smart thing he is doing! he wants to do that work out here? please post that information when you have it for everyone to see, thanks!

I am only familiar with Sing Sing's program affiliated with the master degree in theology. My friend recently transferred there for its program. Have a lot to say about the lack of educational programs across the country for prisoners.....

i had heard that inmates could not get degrees in jail anymore, but i do know that jeff is going to be taking some college classes at sing sing.

My honey is at Sing Sing as well. They have a program through Marcy college, but in order to apply, you have to already have college credits. As far as he could find (he is a teacher there), the only credits accepted by Marcy were from the Biblical Theology (?)course...he has no interest in becoming a priest hahahaha. We decided to go through the Pennsylvania University and I'll pay for the credits he needs to get accepted in the the Marcy program for sociology.