I wanted to share this story with PTO because I am deeply concerned..I was visiting on Saturday and my friend and I were sitting behind this couple who were arguing. Sometimes they were loud, other times they were quiet. The entire scene was bothering me I couldnt enjoy my own visit. I kept eyeing the CO thinking that he would have intervened but he never did. So many times I wanted to say something to them because this lady I knew was really nice! I couldnt believe that she was taking this abuse from this seemingly quiet guy who was her husband. Shortly after midday he suddenly grabbed her by the neck and told her to stand up and she didnt stand. So he added more pressure to her neck and again told her to stand or he'd break her F*****g neck. I wanted to throw up just watching it, but she stood and they walked to the back of the room. The entire time I was ranting and raving at my friend and his code is to mind your own business in prisons and I know thats true on some level but when is enough, enough? Well, the couple came back to their table and about 10 minutes later he grabbed her again and asked her to stand up. This time she made eye contact with me like she wanted help!! I heard him tell her "dont look right or left or I'll snap your neck. Just walk". I was so sick I didnt know what to do. My friend was upset it too because the guy was in his building and he saw him often in the yard. I wanted to say something, shout something, but I wasnt sure what...the problem was solved for me because a female guard saw what had transpired and she called him up to the podium and gave him a warning. When he walked up there I leaned forward to ask her if she was ok and she was like "oh yes, it was no big deal"....then she started crying. My question is women...why do you come to a prison to be abused? If this guy can do this in a crowded visiting room, can you imagine the things he'd do to you in private? Why do you bust your butt getting there to see someone, send him money/packages, write him letters, only to let him abuse you when you visit? I've only been visiting for 5 months and this is something I see ALL THE TIME!!! although this situation was the worse yet. Some of these guys are in there for a reason! while some dont deserve to be in there. I am sooo confused...Please tell me the logic in going through something like this. I was so mad I was probably ruining my visit with my friend but I didnt care. I asked this same woman in the parking lot what happened and she told me that he was upset because she hadnt received the money she sent several weeks ago! I was like...What the...!!
Thats just plain sick. But she said to me that he isnt always like that, he only gets upset because of his present situation and where he is....I dont know ladies....Wouldnt it be so much easier to just not come? its not like he can do anything to you. I'm just plain old frustrated that this could happen in front of so many people....

I fault the guard a lot! They won't allow affection to be shown in the visiting room but they'll allow this? That's assault, plain and simple. Just goes to show the low esteem the guards hold for women who visit men in prison and send them money. The abused woman is in denial, obviously, and you're right-----if he'll do that to her in visiting, what would he do out here? But you can't convince someone they're abused if they don't want to see it. I think you should write to the warden and say what you've said here. Complain about it! If you know the name of the guard on duty, include the name of the guard.

Yes I know. I had plans on complaining to the warden but I didnt want to cause problems for Byron (my friend). And I knew this woman wouldnt tell the officers anything if asked. There was another that happened on the same day. A couple was slapping each other and they had a young daughter about 2 or 3 and the guards let it go on for about 10 minutes before they called over the speaker for them to "behave"...I was like...oh god, thats horrible! Youre so right toi....they wont allow any excessive contact if its loving but they allow physical abuse? ughhh! I was so pissed I told my friend if he ever touched me in anger I'd throw the table at him and everything thats on it, plus whatever I can get my hands on, then I'd wait for my visits to be terminated cause that prison would be wiped from my mind forever. He was really upset over the entire thing but he told me so many men brag back there about bullying their women into getting things from them...man, this world has gone mad, even inside prisons!!!

unbelievable. i dont know what i would have done in that situation either. thank goodness the co caught it!

Somehow I'm not surprised that a MALE c/o would overlook this!

Obviously this woman has no self-esteem and is in denial regarding his abuse. He probably has her SO degraded that she is afraid to leave him.......who knows what threats he uses to control her!!!

Until she gets some backbone, its going to continue. Its a shame, but its reality. Hopefully she will get some help before its too late.

mrs. d

Not to make light of the situation but I cannot believe that the visiting room guards missed this 'twice' and did not do something more? I am not sure what level of security this prison is, but where my partner is if you even LOOK like you are going to touch the one that you are visiting they are on you... I cannot bear the thought of abuse no matter how slight but I cannot believe that the guards are this blind and did not really come down on this guy...

I don't know what to say. I have never seen anything remotely like this and I have been visiting going on two years. I cannot beleive the guards let it go. There should be video tape of the visiting room. But your right, telling the warden might just bring heat on your man.

What do y'all think about this... maybe she (or even someone else) COULD send an anonymous letter to the warden about it and suggest he review the tape for such-and-such date at whatever-approximate-time? That wouldn't help the woman (and Mrs. D is right, she is going to have to learn to help herself to get any real help overall in this situation) but the COs who overlooked that behavior might be reprimanded and the female CO who took care of it be commended maybe? I'd be tempted if I'd witnessed that at the facility I visit. Much like has been said it makes me sick that a CO turns a blind eye to that horror yet any excessive loving touch and contact can get us banned from visiting...

You're right, there is a video tape that circles the room. But she has to be the one to say something...and most abused women NEVER DO!!! in fact, she may go through great lengths to protect him. If she wants that type of relationship then I wish her all the best. I, however dont wish to see it. My friend is built like a ton of bricks...too bad he cant just kick his butt!!

No, I didn't mean she the abused woman sending the anonymous letter. I meant you or anyone else (or anyone else, for that matter - we are talking an anonymous letter) who was visiting RE concerns about how those COs reacted in the face of obvious abuse in the visiting room (or lack or reaction, rather). Those COs should be reprimanded IMO...

Thats a good idea Lysbeth. The only problem is that when letters are sent to the warden, his secretary reads it and responds...most of the time, we get no responses. I wrote a letter addressed to the warden and someone wrote back and said this letter isnt worth looking into...it definitely wasnt the warden. They play all kinds of games in there. The CO's defense would be "Theres too many visitors, my eyes cant be everywhere". I was just grateful the female guard saw what was happening....I was pissed off because he only got a warning!!!

Just my humble opinion: Failure to act is a Act of Failure! I agree with the anonymous letter. Everybody needs to take a stand and not allow this to happen! My ex husband was abusing my children while I worked and went to school full time and NOBODY (not even my children) SAID anything! I never suspected anything because of the lack of knowledge. when everything came to a head and one of my children was brave enough to "tell" I found out HORRIBLE details that went on while I was gone. ABUSE is a hush hush ordeal and I also agree with the earlier post, if this goes on in PUBLIC think what this man does to her in private. Her minimizing this inmates behavior is a Definate sign of abuse. If nobody acts, then what if??? What if he gets out and abuses her? kills her? abuses their children??? Yes, I know...alot of "what ifs" but when you've been the BLIND participant in the abuse, and I mean this because my lack of knowing my children were abused and knowing the signs to look for, this actually was me contributing to the situation. ALTHOUGH I am not the one who abused my children, after I found out what had happened (My little boy played with matches and my ex tied him up with duck tape and set his shirt on fire to "teach him a lesson") I was in denial, shock, and just plain old stupified. PLEASE do something, ANYTHING! Failure to Act is and Act to fail! Thanks for listening, sorry if I sound like a soap box preacher! :-)

Buggles you are one hundred percent right! sometimes being silent does make you an accomplice. But the last thing I want to do is make an enemy of anyone at a prison, whether it is a visitor/inmate. It was very obvious to me that this woman loves this inmate who does this to her. Its a good thing hes a lifer though cause at least he doesnt get family visits. My question is, she's aware that I know what happened. If they review that tape by coincidence lets say, and decide to give her husband a 115 and terminate her visits, she will know that it was me who said something. I'm not trying to cause my friend who shares the same yard with her husband, any problems, especially when its obvious that this woman is in denial and doesnt want any help. Am I wrong for thinking that way? My kind of help involved talking to her and telling her she shouldnt take that from ANY GUY! her response was that "he's not normally like this" I wanted to shake her and tell her to wake up! but I dont know her like that and she probably will tell me to stay out of her business (I've had that happen to me before)....

She wouldn't know it was you-------she'd think it was the guard or that someone had caught it on tape. Even if you can justify it to yourself on the basis that he won't get out and she's choosing that for herself, what about the little kids in the visiting room who were subjected to seeing that? What if he jerks her around sometime and they go off balance and fall on someone's child and kill the child or severely injure it? Then you'd have to think back to when you might have made a difference and didn't. If you don't want to do anything, that's a choice we all have to respect, but in your place, I'd do the reporting and complaining, even if only anonymously. Although I'd do it openly because that's what would carry the weight and I'm just like that.

Yasmeen...I understand your prospective and I hope you didnt take offense and think I was suggesting you start problems with your friends other guest at the correctional facility. I guess when I first read this post, the old feelings in me welled up inside and I got angry at that man!!! My children were abused silently and I always feel so guilty because I was so busy working fulltime and being in school. This man who abused my children was not their father. Even in the beginning of the situation I was in denial (like that women is) My own disbelief of my children and the situation that occured led to much heartache for me. I have all of my children, but back when this happened I was threatened with foster care and having them taken if I didn't testify against him. The whole court thing was degrading for myself and my children. I see now when I look back on the long term effects of minimizing, etc. So anyway, this is an entirely different situation, but my first reaction is what came out in my post. I hope you took no offense, I just typed without thinking....

Do whatever you think is best for the situation at hand. Just you responding and talking to this women about it shows that you care and you are not one of "those people" who think it's not their problem. You are very caring to bring this up to the forum, because this is a good discussion and also might spark awareness in anyone else who is facing a similar situation.

Hugs from the Bug!

Buggles, No no no...In no way was I offended by what you said to me. You were hurt in the past and I really understand that. I am so interested in hearing what everyone had to say about this because I kinda felt bad about not speaking up for this woman but the thing is that I wont be there if she decides to stay with this guy and something bad happens. She has to be the one to make the right decision about this, especially if she has children. I love reading posts like this because its always interesting reading how other people think and how they would have handled the situation. I dont feel bad for thinking of my future visits with my friend had I spoke up and something happened in the visiting room. I felt bad because when she looked at me I knew she wanted someone to help her but I wasnt sure what she expected anyone to do....I have my own way of handling things too and it doesnt involve writing the warden because I know it wouldnt do any good. The male guards opinions are that women deserve anything they get because theyre stupid for subjecting themselves to these kind of men. Thats probably why a female guard was the only one to say anything....but thanks all of you at PTO for your advice and opinions. It really does help a whole lot.

I WOULD HAVE TOLD THE CO'S!!
THIS IS DOWN RIGHT UNACCEPTABLE!
THIS PISSES ME OFF.......SHAME ON HER! HE WOULD NEVER GET ANOTHER VISIT NOR PACAKGE! I WOULD MAKE SURE THE CO'S KNEW RIGHT THEN AND THERE!
THIS IS OUTRAGEOUS....!

WHAT IF THIS WAS YOUR MOTHER OR SISTER...WOULD YOU HAD TOLD THEN!
I CANT BELIEVE THIS CRAP.....

Just what is it you cant believe? the fact that a woman would visit a prison and allow a guy to do these things to her? or the fact that no one wanted to get their visits terminated for a woman who wants to be with a man who obviously abuses her? If it were my mom or sister in that situation, yes I would say something...but the fact is that ITS NOT MY MOM OR SISTER! and I would hope that anyone related to me would listen to good sound advice when its given. Let me tell you what would have happened in this situation since you obviously havent seen anything like this before...I would have told a CO about what was going on and this guy would have said something to me which in turn would have pissed off my fiancee...a fight would have started in the visiting room, we all would have lost our visits for 90 days and guess what? when that 90 day period was over...I would go back to the prison to see my fiancee who by the way would have gotten a 115 plus loss of priveleges..and guess who I would see sitting across from me? Ms. abused and Mr. Abuser...It must be easy to say what you would do especially when youre not put in that situation....So no..its not unseemingly that I dont want to have to go for a long time not seeing my fiancee for someone who obviously doesnt want the help. I see her still to this day with this same guy, only I havent seen anything from him since then. Sorry if you dont agree but I didnt post this thread to make anyone upset, I posted it because its sad that abused women will go to a prison to see someone like this and wont say anything when there's tons of security around to help her if she were to scream for help. I was hoping that someone would read this and see how silly it is to sit there and take abuse in a prison or anywhere else...I wasnt hoping to make a difference in anyone's life. I was hoping that maybe someone who is abused would read this and it would make them stronger. I know, because I used to be abused in my early 20's..but not any longer. I'm stronger because of something I read...

yeah, but if u keep saying , "well, the c.o isn't gonna do anything anyway" or "i don't wanna cause any trouble" then these kinds of things will never stop happening. If u just sit theer silently watching this take place, it's like your condoning it. That poor woman is probably so humiliated, and feels like such dirt, she needs some1 to stick up for her.

I have experienced similar things in the visiting room. Nothing as intense as you described, but scarey none the less. I haven't done anything. Maybe I should, I probably should, but I haven't because I am not going to risk MY boyfriend's life by doing it. If that guy is locked in the same quarters as your boyfriend, and you say something and he finds out, whats to stop him from going after your boyfriend? I feel REALLY REALLY bad when I see this kind of shit go on. I feel for the women that put up with it. But the fact is, they put up with it. They GO there. It's not like you see this guy on the street beating up his girlfriend. If that were the case, you could do something about it and not really worry about your boyfriend getting another year in prison, or worse. These women GO there to see their men. If their men act that way, my guess is, it's not the first time. It is very sad, and it DOES make you want to throw up. But, it's not your place. They willingly put themselves in that position.
I feel for you cuz I know what your saying. I watched a guy go NUTS on his girlfriend in the visiting room. He didn't touch her, but I couldn't believe that the guard didn't do anything. He was too concerned with checking out if my boyfriend had his hand on my knee. Know what I mean?
So, I don't really know what to tell you what to do. An anonynmous letter is good, as long as there is NO chance it can be traced to you. It's pathetic that we are too afraid to say anything, but, sometimes you do what you have to do to survive. Hopefully this girl will come to her senses.

My old man has been in the prison system for almost 5 years. I've visited him for most of the time that he's been in the different facilities: 3 minimums and 1 medium facilities, as a matter of fact. In all the years that I've gone in to see him, I haven't seen one incident of domestic violence occur. And trust me, I'm very sensitive to the signs, as I am a survivor of physical and sexual abuse. My ears perk up even when voices become slightly louder or I hear a stressed tone.

Also add to the fact that whenever I've seen domestic violence as an adult, I don't think. I react, which isn't always the smartest thing. I've gotten a few women out of unsafe situations and when the men tried to turn their anger on me I wouldn't be intimidated by them. I guess I've just been this way (and again I stress that this isn't always the safest course to take) because I've had to protect my younger brothers and sisters from my parents' abuse.

I think that if I were to see someone being harmed during a visit I would probably react. No, I know that I would. I would have to assess the situation; if the person was in immediate danger I would definitely get help. ESPECIALLY if my children were along for the visit (which I sometimes bring them) I would definitely say or do something. This is not something I would want my children to witness at ALL!!! Again with the Earth Mother bit...

I'm not worried about my old man having to deal with the repercussions of my actions. He's big, he's tall and he's from NYC, who grew up on the streets of the Bronx and Brooklyn. I know that he can take care of himself. And he knows my heated stance against domestic violence. He knows that it makes no sense to shut me up about these things, because he knows that I won't stand for seeing someone get hurt.

Again, reacting may not always be the wisest thing but my concern is that no one should have to deal with domestic violence AND especially children shouldn't have to witness it.

Just my two cents worth.

Ladies, I know that several months have gone by since this thread was started, but as a man, and one who has had some jail experience, if you want to handle that bum all you need to do is get his name. Once you have that and before you actually see you friends/husbands, let someone in the room hear you talking about that guy as he was a child molester. Believe me there is no loyalty to child molesters, not even in jail. Problem solved. Nobody can remember where the info came from as "gossip" of a certain nature passes very quickly (probably be known on the block before you get to your car), and is dealt with in the same manner, quickly....
My daughter comes from the same life style and he has been dealt with in somewhat the same mannwer on more than one occasion. It's a little more enforced in the joint.

I disagree with this logic. If you want to get revenge on this man perhaps that is what one might consider doing.

However before you make this decision, stop and think about a few things. An abusive man blames all that happens it him in life on the one he abuses. He will some how take it out on her. She will suffer if you try to retaliate in any way. She may get blamed as the one that opened her mouth and must have said something to others in the visiting room that could have been misunderstood and resulted in this action taken against him. It will only hurt her more. He will forbid her to talk to or even look at another person if he hasn't already done so. She needs to be able to feel as though she can reach out for help to those around her when she is ready to make that step. But if she has been isolated from others it will be much harder. Make peace with this man not war and befriend her without making her uncomfortable about her situation.

I suggest if you want to help then get to know her and avoid the obvious situation in your conversation. Trust me she will bring it up when she feels comfortable with you and is ready to talk. I know what I am talking about. I was there and know others that have walked down that road. Never bad mouth her man. Let her do that if she wants to. But never let your words be harsher on him than hers, otherwise you are against them and she won't trust you. Let her come to her conclusions about the abuse and then you can agree with her but don't put those words out there as they will only make her retreat from you.

You want to stop the behavior in the visiting room? Get friendly and act ignorant to what's going on. You can interrupt a situation in a way that appears innocently. Try going over to them and asking a simple question about something pertaining to the visiting room like:

Do you happen to know who the guard on duty is?

Is that vending machine not working right, seems like several people have had problems with it and I thought you might have noticed. You know can't afford to through money away in these machines if they aren't working. Hey if you don't know no problem buddy. Thanks anyways. I appreciate it.

Do you know if anyone is in the visitors restroom? I've not paid attention and don't want to accidentally walk in on someone know what I mean?


By the time you exchange a few words and are pleasant about it, you have diffused the situation. But you must be blind to what's really happening or you will make it worse.

msveggie, I like that...although it may or may not have worked. Sometimes things happen quickly and you dont have time to think. Mehaul....uhhhh...I would feel horrible if someone "overheard" a conversation like that, especially if it werent true, and they severly hurt him or possibly killed him. That wouldnt sit to well on my conscience...but she's still with this guy...I am so glad my visits are now at another prison.

In the 4 prisons ive worked at, during visits, you raise your voice (inmate or visitor) and a CO is in your face, defusing the situation. An inmate puts his hands on a women in a way that is more than a gentle caress (i.e. hostile) he is dragged away and loses all rights for that day and is on watch for the next several visits. I have been a C.O. in a Maximum and Super Max Prison and worked visits, I held back responding, but my girlfriend stumbled on this thread and thus I had to see it agian. So here it goes, about the time he stood up and I saw his hand on you, I would be on my feet ( in the 4 prisons Ive worked just standing up was a red flag) he touches your throat or any part of your body that I feel appears offensive then I'm in his face and he is gone. No talking, No defense, HE IS GONE, explain it to me later!

I know this may not be a popular opinion BUT...if this is what he does while he's behind bars ya'll can imagine what it's like for this woman at home. With that said , given her home situation she continues to come visit this man. This just goes to show what kind of control he has over her mind. So if anything is done to stop his visits it may be even worse for her once he's released. If he's in for life that's one thing but more than likely she'll be the one to pick her hunny up and it'll start then and there. I'd just give the CO a heads up to keep his or her eye on that couple, which they probably already do. But if she's in that deep that she's going so far out of her way for this jerk , you have to be careful that you don't end up doing more harm than good.

Searcher, you were probably one of the few guards who looked out for things like that. I'm guessing that CO's believe that women get what they deserve for coming there to see someone like that. Thats probably why only a FEMALE guard noticed that this was going on..and she just happened to walk in the visiting room...

I have done a bit of visiting but only in the feds. I have never seen anyone get loud, let alone touch someone in a hostile manner. But, I am also not one to look around during visits. Maybe it goes on and I just dont see it or notice it.

Flygirl, unfortunately in some prisons you dont have to "look" around. Anyone who visit that particular prison know exactly what I'm talking about. The tables are so close you can reach your arm out and touch em. I dont know about anyone else but I get distracted by things like this...probably because I have been through this type of stuff before. My fiancee knows this and he does everything he can to distract me. But when things are happening right in front of you, you cant help but hear it...especially when they're not trying to be discreet. Its not a matter of looking around...if there's a distraction behind us, you can bet that my fiancee will turn around quickly (courtesy of spending 23 years behind bars)....

thats not right... but she put herself in that situation