Ok, so this is a bit of a long post... but I have a point to make and a 'challenge' at the bottom... Please help start some dialogue about this and lets find some solutions?

I had a situation today that just about got me spouting off at some poor guy on the phone... I had to 'check my PTO voice at the door'... or he never would have made it out alive...! lol

I work in and around the staffing industry and frequently deal with companies that do criminal background checks (CBC's). Now CBC's are more common in the United States and have been for some time, but they have not been until recently in Canada.

I am dealing with an organization that wants all employees to have a CBC as well as a 'vulnerable persons check'. This check in Canada anyway, will expose SO related background as the position will or could be around children.

All of this is fine. It is all in a days work for me.

I started however to ask the company president of this CBC company (name not important - but they are present in both Canada and the United States) how we decide if a particular report back makes the person eligible for employment or not.

His reply was - once a criminal, always a criminal - and that if any report comes back of past conviction then they are not employable!!!!!!!!!! I just about fell out of my chair! I started to debate him on this and his reply this time was that if someone commits any crime in their past they are likely to commit a crime again - like a smoking gun...?????????

Well, I continued to debate him and ask him questions like - "So you are saying that if I was arrested for protesting 20 years ago and it shows on my record then an employer that asks for a CBC is going to deny me employment?" His answer was yes - unless I had applied for a pardon. He went on to say that if a 'criminal' has served their time (In Canada) they can apply for a pardon and it will no longer show on their record? This way the CBC is clean.

I could not believe this guys attitude about 'criminals' and I was starting to get really direct with him when I caught myself and decided to calm down and just let him think what he wants to think... Because of my job I am not in a position to try to change this guys thinking... After all - he is making money running reports on our loved ones when they come home. He is profiting off of our grief yet to come...

Here is my question and challenge... My challenge is to every member of PTO... What do we know about becoming employed after coming home from prison. (Focusing on the USA)

CBC's are a reality for a lot of jobs. We all have loved ones coming home and looking for work sooner or later... We will all have to face this sometime or another...

How do we get past this?

What is this pardon thingy? LOL, I know what it is, but is every crime eligible for a pardon? If so how do you get one? Will this help our loved ones get jobs?

What are the steps? How can we make it easier?

What can we do?

This guy got me so fired up that a few of my colleagues looked at me and wondering what 'soft spot' this guy touched on... lolol ...if they only knew...

Help!!! All replies and knowledge welcome!!!!

Teb,

I don't know what the pardon is, but I do know that even though Bill is innocent the whole thing of having a record etc.. is part of why he never plea bargained and refused them all and hence the appeal.

This comes back to haunt them with careers, housing, loans, and a host of other things in the future that we may not even be aware of yet.....

It sucks...

Deb

Federal pardons are available through the Department of Justice (I think that's what it's called) and are for federal convictions.

Otherwise the person has to go through the state's process. In some states it's up to the governor. In Alabama it's up to the pardon and parole board.

Here, when somebody is CHARGED with a crime, regardless of the conviction, it stays on their record forever. I know that for a fact from first-hand experience. Though I've never been convicted of anything, I have a "record" from being charged with a felony. It sucks too - there's no such thing as innocent until proven guilty.

Perhaps the people/members involved with a certain state could investigate the pardon process in that state? Alabama has a website for the Pardon and Parole Board that tells what a person would have to do in order to apply for a pardon. There's also a site I've seen somewhere that tells about federal pardons.

In Michigan there is paperwork that you can fill out that clears your record completely including the fingerprinting etc... if you were found not guilty or won in appeals etc...So, being charged even would no longer show up..

Deb

Ohhhh Teb. I don't know HOW you kept your cool, tho glad you did... I know you pretty much had to. I might have just lost it.

You won't like hearing this either. Several years ago (and before I gained the knowledge & interest I now I have in the prison system) an acquaintance of mine worked for one of the largest staffing agencies in this area. One night when we were having dinner together she mentioned that "So & So" had come in that day and filled out an application... "So & So" being a fairly well known convicted felon whose case had been highly publicized here a few years prior, one of those names you mention and anyone who's lived here very long knows. She went on to say she'd tossed the application in the garbage. I asked why. She told me any application they get that has the "Have you ever been convicted of a felony?" box checked "Yes", gets trashed. No, it's not right, but I'm afraid, tho I don't know for sure, that's probably the rule rather than the exception in an overwhelming majority of such places. How to change attitudes like that I've no idea - education would certainly be a major part - but there are certainly those whose minds won't be changed no matter the amount of education, nor incentive.

And speaking of incentive... the city where I live has one of the highest crime rates in the country, and also has a pretty high unemployment rate. The former longtime mayor of the city many years ago began a program that offered incentives to local employers to hire convicted felons... I have no idea how well the program has worked (and need to find out), but I have always thought that was a great idea and I am sure there are others like it in some of the other large cities in the U.S. It has concerned me in more recent months what has happened, if anything, to that program now that that mayor is no longer in office (another thing I need to check out) and if it's still going whether it will continue. I hope so. I think programs like that are a good start... unfortunately I imagine that opportunity is mainly limited to the larger cities in the U.S.

However, it's unlikely my own convicted felon will ever live here in this city so as far as him personally, that program is a moot point. I'm not sure whether his hometown, another of the larger cities in this state, has a program like that or not.

His future employment has concerned me a great deal... not so much in the immediate future after his release, because part of his job plan is going to be going to work in the family business. We are way fortunate in that regard; I know that's a luxury many don't have. However, it's very possible that he will not choose to make that his life's career - and I think if he does wind up doing that, it will only be because he's forced to because no other options are available to him because of his conviction. And it's very possible that he, whether it's the two of us together or just him, may eventually choose to reside elsewhere than his hometown... which could pose more problems getting employment. I think as long as he stays, or he and I stay, there in the area he's from, he'll never have much of a problem finding work, even though it may not be exactly what he would prefer to do. Outside of the family business and outside of the relative safety of living where enough people know you and your family that they would be willing to hire you regardless of your past - that's what scares me. I am concerned that there are many more people and businesses like my acquaintance above & her staffing company than there are those who would be willing to give someone a chance. :(

As for pardons, as Danielle said Alabama's Board of Pardons & Paroles has the information one needs on how to go about getting a pardon. In our case, I doubt it ever would be worth the effort... his "violent offender" status has kept him from being paroled three times and possibly will keep him from it a fourth, I have no delusions that the state would ever grant him a pardon under any circumstances.

I know in most all States even if a person is found to be innocent and let go, when he has been on Death Row. The record doesn't just go away, they have to apply for it to be cleared. I believe that is done through the courts and has to be approved by the Gov.

I know here in WA if you have a felony on your record after so many years you can ask the Gov for it to be taken off your record. Changes are that won't happen, but you can ask. I know a few other states are the same way you have to go through the Gov.

You would think if a person is innocent that they would clear that persons record, but then again that is to rational.

softie

I grabbed this from the Houston Chronicle



Once on your record, felony very difficult to remove
By RONALD LIPMAN

Back when I was young and stupid, I had a felony conviction for theft, receiving probation and community service in addition to making restitution. I've since lived at home and worked for the last 20 years in my family's business, which recently shut down. My problem is, now that I'm looking for a job and a place to live, I'm hitting a stone wall. As soon as I mention the felony conviction, nobody -- and I mean nobody -- will hire me. Three apartments I tried to lease dropped me after they ran a criminal background check. Is there any way to get this chain that's dragging me down removed?

A. Unfortunately, the answer to your question is, no.

It is extremely difficult to get a felony conviction removed from your record.

In fact, there are only two ways. You either need to be pardoned, or you'll need to prove the charges against you were made by mistake or based upon false information (and other technical requirements must be met as well).

Getting pardoned is unlikely, and establishing that the conviction over 20 years ago was invalid will be extremely difficult.

here in Tx you can aslo file ( i forgot the name) after so many years of being released from prison. That will clear them from parole. If you done good in 7 years, you can file with the gov and get your name clear, but you have to have nothing on your record for 7 years, i think it also may be 10? i dont rember.

Hi Ken. Daniel and I have done a little research on a related topic .... immigration. I can't recall all the details off the top of my head but it's "in the archives". A convicted felon can apply to immigrate to Canada if they have received a Certificate of Relief from Disability. I believe they can apply for this two years following the date of release. Basically, it is proof that the State believes the felon has been rehabilitated and employers cannot use the conviction to discriminate against the applicant. Canada recognizes and accepts these certificates as proof of rehabilitation.

This worries me also. Especially when the economy is in the toilet like it is.

I live in Michigan. In 2001 I was convicted of a drug charge and sentenced to "life-time" probation (equivalent to 5 yearsprobation). Two months after my conviction I completed college with a degree, BBA, magna cume laude. I found a job two months after graduating as a Restaurant Supervisor. I now work as a wait-server in the same restaurant, earning the same amount of money with much shorter work hours.

I have been turned down for numerous jobs due to my "criminal conviction." I have gone through two and three interviews, was hired twice "pending reference confirmations" and received rejection letters with emphasis on "not qualified" for "current or future" employment.

Where I work they have the following written in bold HUGE BOLDED PRINT IN ALL CAPITAL LETTERS on the application right at the beginning of the document, "IF YOU HAVE EVER BEEN CONVICTED OF A FELONY OFFENSE FOR WHATEVER REASON PLEASE DO NOT APPLY!" FELONY CONVICTION IS AMPLE CAUSE FOR APPLICATION REJECTION. NO EXCEPTIONS!"

I kknow from personal experience where I work employee's are subject to severe disciplinary action even if you talk about a fight you had with someone else not even employed where I work! It makes no difference how many college level 4.0 grade point averages you have. It makes no difference how much time you spent living crime free helping your community all they care about is that box that asks, "Have you ever been convicted of a Felony!"

I saw a dude who lied about his felony and somehow he managed to slip through the cracks for 5 years. Eventually they caught that he had not been subjected to the full background check and found his felomy conviction. The fact that in those five years he had risen in grade, gotten awards for great service and had NO issues working well with all his co-workers suddenly meant nothing. I will never forget the day the pack of like 8 security guards walked up to his desk and escorted him out of the building like a common criminal after announcing to everyone in a loud voice, so n so has a felony conviction as a sex offender because he was caught in his parked car on a vaccant lot masturbating.

The fact that a bit of hand action was enough to get a dude fired from his job after he did his 9 months in county jail was hard enough. But public masterbation is even in your car on a vaccant lot is enough of a sex crime in his state to get him listed as a sex offender on some dopey online pervert registry. Like he says in fun now he should have sprung for a hotel room, he admits it was all his fault but should they be able to ruin the rest of his life employment wise with this. The fact because what he did was so lame he will only be listed as a sex offender for 5 years but thats 5 years too long.

So a dude can not work because, he has a felony wanker record. Sick thing is because he went to trial he got the stiffer sentence no pun intended but had he agreed to the plea bargin he would have gotten off with a softer sentence. My friend was 20 years young and stupid at the time thinking it was no big deal, I tried to warn him but he knew best. He works cleaning up garbage and painting walls at a garage now and for him that is a good job because it has health insurance. What makes it bad is the guy is a awesome psychologist degrees and everything.

Same thing happened to another friend I grew up with. This guy used to live at the police station he stated in so much trouble when we were both young. I was a straight arrow, I never did anything wrong criminally. Eventually my friend saw the errors of his ways put down herion, dope pills and got away from all his loser friends. Went to a 4 year college and did so well he blew the minds of everyone who knew him. The federal government was so impressed they hired him without even completing the investigation. They gave him travel incentives and everything. He explainef he had run in's with the law in his youth but one stinking felony was after he was 18 and it counted as an adult conviction. He was asked to leave the job just like that, no opportunity to explain nothing. I guess what hurts me is in both cases everyone involved with working wirh both men were totally awe struck by the quality of their work and only afterwards were they let go after hearing about felony convictions many years ago in the past.

It is the height of cruel to let a criminal out of prison tell him you better go straight keep your nose clean and live like a civilized human being in society while blocking access to the essential economic tools only a good job can place in his hands. A man can only be as Civil in a humane society as a good paying respectable job makes him. Granted a prisoner is guilty of breaking trust with society, and members of society is afraid to give an ex-con another change but if we fail to give an ex-con another chance then parole and probation are a sham, a lie.

If a ex-con is denied access to the job opportunites and trust tools needed to restore himself to good standing in civilized society then parole and probation force inmates to become fools in a deluded paranoid societies dream.of fairness that has no basis in fact. Too free a former criminal into a society that is free to treat the ex convict as if he is still a criminal makes criminals of society for their is nothing so cruel as the offer of false hope to ex-convicts whose dreams of crime free life live or die by the hope others are willing to invest in his future.

Society is itself criminal until we all can look into the eyes of every ex-convict hoping for a real chance to succeed till see a little bit of ourselves reflected back in their uncertain eyes.

Here's a story for all of you....

My boyfriend has had several run-in's with the law and has several felony convictions of his record. He has been out over 4 months this time and is doing what he is supposed to be doing with parole and such. A couple months ago he applied to a grocery store online. He was called in for an interview, disclosed his criminal history, told them he was on parole and was hired on the spot. He was offered employment pending the results of a drug test that was given to him right then and there. 3 days later he received a call that his test was negative and sent to a training session. He started working full time a week later. After about 8 weeks of working, he was promoted to Asst. Mgr. of his dept. A week later, he was let go because of his criminal history. Now he is the interesting part...They knew of his history when they hired him but we received a copy of his background about a month after he started working that stated he was ineligible for hire. They supposedly ran a background on 7/28 but this letter was dated 8/14 and it was still a month after that he was let go. The day he was let go, he was scheduled to work and was told he could work if he wanted to. Does this make sense? It seems to me that someone at corporate dropped the ball on this one and none of the dates really make sense when you look at the information they sent. None of the people above him knew this was coming, not even the store manager.

In closing, he is meeting with an attorney regarding wrongful termination and discrimination. We believe they have screwed this one up pretty good by having him work, promoting him and stating he could work the day he was told of the situation. Also, all managers at the store have confirmed that they were aware of his history and have advised him to fight corporate and get his job back.

Here in VA, everything that you've received a ticket or fingerprinting from is automatically put on your record unless it happened while you were under 18 (then the records are completely sealed from background checks). And the state will also put on the record what the conviction and/or sentence was. But once fines are paid, sentence is complete, and/or probation is finished, you have to wait a few years to try to get it off by pardon, exspongement(?), having the records sealed, etc. from what I've read. And you normally have to get a lawyer to help do it.

But as for employment here, we're a "right-to-work" state. It means that you can quit or be fired at anytime for any reason without notice. I've been fired for not smiling enough at customers. And all job applications (and some rental apps too) here ask for any & all felony convictions and are more likely to not hire you if you don't provide the correct info. And some ask for even traffic violations as well as a credit check. I know for any federal and state jobs they won't hire here if there's a record cuz they require you to be able to get a security clearance from the government. But there are places here (not large corporations) that will hire felons for the very bottom rung jobs and then move people up if they continue to do well & not get another conviction. When my man gets out this Friday, he told me to expect him to be turned down for jobs at companies for awhile. That's why he says he's doing to work for a relative first.

I always encourage clients to apply for a pardon as soon as they become eligible. That does not mean that they do it mind you. Again, I'm speaking from a Canadian perspective. As for criminal background checks, I've got news for your client. AS I understand it, discrimination on the basis of a criminal record is a violation under the Human Rights Code in Ontario. So, if he's doing it and getting you employer to assist him, I would suggest that you bring a copy of the Human Rights Code to your employer attention. I know that, here in Canada, companies often use placement agencies and it is they who do the discriminating, not the actual company which will be employing their term employee. Nevertheless, no matter who's doing it, it's still against the law. In Canada, you apply for a pardon through the National Parole Board, Clemency Division in Ottawa and you may obtain a copy of the application through any national parole office or, for that matter, the provincial probation and parole office as well. Canadians should be aware, however, that the fact of receiving a pardon in Canada has no effect on American authorities and, while the police file in Canada will be sealed, the Americans do not seal theirs. Hope this helps a bit.