Okay Guys, For all of you that have read the story, you know that the NCDOC took my visitation privileges away from me.
This was in October of 2001. I have been trying ever since to regain those privileges to no avail. NOW I NEED EVERYONE'S IDEAS AND HELP.

I received a letter today from the NC General Assembly House of Representatives. They are telling me to file a law-suit. This is my thinking: I cannot afford an attorney right now. Do any of you know an attorney who could help me to at least write a letter using the attorney's name to the Secretary of Corrections stating something like this:

My client Renee Cerniglia has hired me for employment in her pursuit in obtaining her visitations rights with her Fiancee who is incarcerated in the NCDOC. According to the NCDOC Ex-Employee Policy at the time she was employed, she could visit after 6 months had past from her last day of employment. Due to her short time employed there Nov 14, 2000 thru Dec 03, 2000 her right to visit with an inmate in the NCDOC is valid.

Ms Cerniglia is a model citizen with no criminal record. She is of no risk to the NCDOC, security or otherwise.

Therefore I am requesting that you reinstate Ms. Cerniglia's privileges immediately to avoid a future lawsuit. END

Of course I realize an attorney could find out the exact policies then and now and make this letter sound much better. The Consulting Firm that tried to help me with this I believe failed because he had no legal backing. He was not an attorney.

Also if I can't find an attorney, could I write a letter such as this making it look as if it came from an attorney and do it legally?

Does anyone know an internet site of any kind that could help? FYI I have tried the Rutherford Institute and they told me they could not help me.

I really need your opinions and help in any way possible. D Johnson has been trying to help me come up with an idea on how to get a copy of the DOC Employee Policies. Does anyone know how to do this without having to pay an arm and a leg? They are not listed on the internet, just the NC inmate policies.

Help Help I feel my hands are in :cuffs: Thank you,

IT'S GREAT WE FINALLY GOT A POSITIVE RESPONSE, BUT NOT SO GREAT THAT WE NEED TO HIRE AN ATTORNEY. ESPECAILLY SINCE YOU JUST PAID $700 TO GROVER JONES.... AND BETWEEN THE TWO OF US, WE HAVE PUT OUT $10,000 IN HEARINGS AND PAROLE APPLICATIONS...


BUT, AT LEAST, WE DO KNOW NOW THAT WE DO HAVE A LEGAL OPTION....

THERE MUST BE SOME ATTORNEY OUT THERE WHO WILL WORK WITH A FEE CHARGED WHEN WE WIN.... SURELY...

GOD BLESS YOU MY SWEET GIRL.... THIS IS ONE BATTLE MAYBE WE CAN DO SOMETHING ABOUT...


MY LOVE

MOM

Renee....

I could possibly have an idea or 2 for you in the lawyer department. It may take just a little bit though. EJ's cell mate knows quite a bit about the law. He is helping him currently in EJ taking his Police Brutality lawsuit on his own. What I could do is print up your post & send it to EJ, get his opinion on it & talk to his cell mate & see what he can come up with. I believe EJ may still be able to get in contact with or he could give me the info. on a lawyer he met in the county jail that originally gave him the idea to take the lawsuit on himself.

I say it may take a bit because the prison is still on lockdown so I will have to write EJ. The mailroom has been screwing w/his letters & he doesn't get them until like 5-6 days later. Which is crap because I get his in 2...anyway getting off track. I am :pissed at the prison right now & I want an excuse to snap on them all!!

Once EJ calls me I will talk to him about it, but I am still going to print this up & send it out to him. That way he can have the total info. on your situation & get some good ideas from there.

Renee girl you know I am here for you & like I said in yesterday's e-mail if it costs an arm & a leg to have the booklet sent to me it will be MONEY WELL SPENT, ok? For you & Butch to be able to see each other...HEAVEN!

Take care!
Diona

Thanks Diona I would appreciate anything that you could come up with!!!!!! I just want to make sure I do this the right way.

Renee...
Any decent attorney should offer a free initial consultation.. and if all you are asking them to do is write a letter, they should be able to charge you a very minimal fee to do just that.... you could let them know that is all you want for now to see what would happen.... Have you tried talking to any attorneys in the area?? When I started searching for an attorney, I searched the web and found the Illinois Bar Association website and could search all the "registered" lawyers by specialty... "Inmate Rights" was one of those specialties.... They would at least be the ones to contact because they should have some background knowledge of DOC policies and/or how to get the specific info you need..... Have you ever tried requesting that specific policy in writing from the state office of the NCDOC... it seems to me like it would be your right to know what the policy says considering you are an ex-employee.....

I think what you are wanting to do is legally apply pressure to the D.O.C. and see what gives. Are they willing to fight this?
What I think would be most effective is to locate a "free world" attorney that will brand his name on the paperwork, state that you have retained him to pursue this to the end of this earth, and that is ready to fight them. Of course, you cannot afford to do this, but you need to make the DOC think you are. I think you can find an attorney that would be willing to draft a letter like this for a few hundred dollars, maybe even free??
I wouldn't create a ficticious letter, or one from anything less that a genuine attorney, because if they did find out it was "hollow", they would do their best to ruin your future visitations. I am sure someone from the D.O.C.'s legal department will probably contact whatever lawyer you hire just to ask him a few questions, etc.
Do it right and you very well could get your priv's back with little money spent.

David

Thanks Shawna & David

I will try to find one who can do just the letter. I haven't been able to find one in this area that wants to get involved but surely there is one somewhere.

Hey Renee,
I'm going to play the Devil's Advocate here.

You are going to have to file suit against the DOC and over turn the law in place. The law is to protect inmates from employees of the system that has the authority to take advantage of those inprisoned. The claim it is consensual "love" does not apply any more. Legally there is no such thing.

1.) Your claim to only work there a short time, and have a consensual love with a prisoner is not a defense but an admission that you broke the rules.

2.) Your claim that you were aloud to visit for 6 months is also a false defense. It was a flaw in the system that allowed the visit to happen in the first place. So that won't hold water either.

This is the way I'm looking at this. Only a legal marriage would remove the DOC from the liablitity of employee(x-employee) prisoner relationship issue. Which is the bases of the law. It would give legal authority of contract that would relieve responsiblitly that DOC allowed consensual fraternization.

Okay Torrey,

I agree with #1. But the Ex-Employee policy on visiting inmates at the time that I was employed was once an Ex-Employee had been away from the DOC for 6 months they could visit with any inmate in the NCDOC, so my visits from June 3, 2001 until they supposeably changed the policy was valid. I don't see how they can let you visit for all that time and then take it away due to a new policy, if in fact this policy does exist. I haven't been able to obtain a copy of the Policy.

Of course I don't know the actual written policy either. Like I explained I'm playing devil's advocate and talking like the DOC idiots. LOL

I'm just going by what I heard on the news.
There was a case it must have been settled by now but it was over a woman parolee that had a mutaul friendship with a CO. He offered her a place to stay ( He owned rent houses) and help in looking for a job. Even though she was paroled out the DOC found out and forced him to retire.

The parolee later sued DOC and the retired CO for him coercing her to stay at his rent house. She claimed in the suit it was not consensual balhhhh,,,,,blahh...... blah....

So the DOC ended any form of "mutual" relationship including prisoner visits with employees or x-employees"

In other words Butch could claim you were forcing him to communicate with him by just the power of you being a former employee. You could have a hold of some kind over him. Such as you still have CO friends that could rough him up if he did not continue the relationship.

Sounds crazy but I believe this is where they are coming from. They fear legal reprimands from this directions. And so the legisltion passed laws as such.

I'm not agreeing Renee, I'm just trying to show you where you are going to have to fight this thing.

Oh I understand what you saying. I just feel that there may be a small chance to make them keep me under the old policy and not the new one, see what I mean. See, they knew I was visited with Butch before and they didn't care until I started writing letters and pissing them off. They realized I knew too much about how the system works and they said " well we will show her" Ha Ha

let say something i called a friend of mine who is a paralegal and she said that the policy is only valid if you were employed by the doc when it was implemented.. Just make sure you point this out when you are contacting an attorney

Thanks Shortie, Does that mean that the policy was inforced while I was there or it was created while I was there. Because it was a policy when I was employed.

sorry I can't be of any help with this question, I just want to wish you both good luck with this!!

The DOC will go to great lengths to discourage inmate involvement with employees or former employees, and I think the main reason is because it is, above all, a security risk.

I know women who have lost their jobs at the DOC over becoming involved with an inmate, and once they were no longer employed, they still were not allowed to visit. I've seen former employees get by with a few visits, but as soon as the DOC figures out they're dealing with a former employee, they pull the plug on visits.

I don't want to say that your case is hopeless, but I do think that the DOC probably had enough policies in place before you ever went to work for them to bury you in court. I concur with Torrey on everything except the marriage issue. I seriously doubt the DOC would EVER allow you to marry this man while he's still in prison.

Just as a word of warning to you...You never know who is monitoring this website. I'd be extremely careful about putting too much identifying information on these boards. Anything you say here can be read by anyone in the whole world, including DOC officials. Be careful.

according to my friend you should fall under the rule that applied while you were a DOC employee. even if they changed the policy one day after you were terminated it should not apply to you.. you are under the old policy not the new one. the key factor here is when did they change the rule. it has to be in plain black and white but to know that you would have to obtain a copy of the current policy. can you do that? then we will be business..

Shortie, This is what I want to do is get a copy of the new policy but I haven't quite figured out how. I've been told you can order the entire manual but I really don't need that. Do you have any ideas on how to get it?

Thanks:)

try the library? if they don't have what yu need see if they can get it for you from another library in their system. go straight to a reference librarian. A good one loves a challenge. I have seen a workbook of sorts for IL CO's here at my local branch & there isn't a prison for miles. good luck & let us know what you find.

Do you really think a library is going to have DOC Employee Policies? They are not on the internet so I figured they are not in the library.

call 'em up & start asking is all I can say? I've seen them really get into an investigation w/ a legal question I had. They start making calls & everything. At least you can rule them out by the end of your call if nothing else?

In fact, you can get on line w/ some library systems & get into their database. ask for the password

rene: i wouldn't recommend writing a letter and making it look as though an attorney sent it. that could really make things a lot worse than they already are! try contacting the women's center in chapel hill...they offer all kinds of information, referrals, etc. i know several people that have utilized their resources and they have all benefitted..... http://www.womenspace.org/

good luck!

Did you check out these policy revisions?
Looks like about 5 books they are indexed so it might help in your search.

http://www.doc.state.nc.us/docper/Policy/PMrevs-main.htm



http://www.doc.state.nc.us/docper/Policy/PM-main.htm

Thanks Aprilcat and Torrey

I will check out both!!!!!!!!!!!!

Torrey,

How did you find this???? If this is listed I would think the actual policy is listed????

http://www.doc.state.nc.us/docper/


I added a few more links and the main addy. I just ran a search and this popped up.

http://www.doc.state.nc.us/docper/Policy/PM-Sec8.PDF

looks like it starts on about page 63-70

Yes, I found it. But there is nothing in here stating a Ex-Employee of the DOC cannot visit with an inmate unless I am overlooking it. Do you think that policy would be listed somewhere else?

I didn't see policy regarding x-employee visiting inmates either.

You may have a good legal case if they can't produce any written policy on this issue.

I would make a phone list from the yellow pages and call every attorney listed.

Make an appointment for a free consultation. I would not go into detail on the phone to the secretary about it. I would just explain I was persuing a civil suit against the DOC.

OH yes! I also suggest you go to another town to hire an attorney. In small towns the lawyers, judges, and maybe the warden at the prison all know each other in one way or another. They play golf and have drinks together.

It may be out of the way but go to another town to hire your lawyer and then ask him if he has affiliates in the DOC. If you ask they have to admit it. They may not think it is a conflict of interest and take your case anyway.

Hi, I have the exact same problem you do. I have lost my visits and they have placed a permanent visiting restriction on me; basically for doing nothing of importance. I am fighting it; I'm just getting started cause it just happened and I'm clueless as to what to do. But I will let you know if I have any success and I will keep checking this thread to see if you do!!!

Isadora, Tell me a little about your situation. Is in in Michigan? I will keep you informed on my case.

Ms. Renee:
Before I help you , I must get a clear understanding to your problem. Is your problem because you were an employee at the facility; they will not let you visit. E-mail me back with the truth and nothing but the truth. Don't leave out they caught us in the wrong place in the wrong position if it is true. The whole story for the proper answer to your problem. Deal! ?????.........:) 38 special

Ms. Isadore:
Tell me how you lost your visit. Give me details up to the day your visit was cancelled. Use this site,please...........38Special....

Ummm.......who are you before I spill my guts?

Renee:

Go ahead and tell 38special the real story of your visitation cancellations.... Tell him everything including how they asked for your resignation and moved him 250 miles away from home.... NOT BECAUSE YOU SLEPT WITH BUTCH, BUT BECAUSE THEY ARE THE D.O.C. AND HAVE THE POWER. Tell him that your received a letter also just recently telling you that you could not even write to Butch. Let him know what you and I feel about the D.O.C. and their absolute evilness and control of people....

Tell him about the Prison Unit threatening Butch with total loss of visitation proviledges with me, his mom who has been visiting for 12 years my middle son....

Sorry 38 special.... I have a lot of resentment against the NCDOC..... They have no respect for Human Life.... I am an accountant and have been at my current job 18 years..... I work and pay my taxes in this state.... My rights are violated consistantly by the DOC here.... If I ask questions about my son, then he gets punished.... Tell me why?

He has been moved all over the State of NC in the last 12 years. He is always moved after I have asked a question. He came up for Minimum custody promotion on June 5th... He has received no paperwork... On the computer is states that his next minimum custody review is in December 2002. So, I guess they turned him down for minimum... No one has talked to him about anything at all. He has been told nothing..... He does not want to ask or me to call and ask what happened because we are afraid they will use that to move him once again.

No 38 Special...... Butch and Renee did not sleep together... If that were the case, She would have had charges filed against her. North Caorlina will not tolerate that type of situation. No, The DOC was really upset they hired her and she became friends with an inmate..... Three weeks is not long enough to be a security risk. That is what their reason is for disallowing her visitation.... I have friends who are guards at NCDOC that visit their children, so what would you assume in this situation??????

Sickening Huh?

Donna

budwoman,

Our experiences with the DOC have been SO different. What kinds of questions do you ask that create such hostility from the DOC? I'm just curious. My husband has never been moved because of my questions or even because of a formal complaint I lodged several years ago that resulted in jobs being lost. I'm just wondering where the land mines are so I can steer clear.

Thanks!

Sometimes it's not what kind of questions you ask that matters, it's the attitude of the officers at a particular facility. I can relate to what you are saying Budwoman, at some facilities that is exactly what would happen if you ask too many questions because the staff are particularly punitive. But at other facilities the staff might be more humane and your inmate would not be punished for his families inquiries.

Ms. Budwoman and Ms. Renee:
I do not know the situation, but my gut says somewhere in your son's past incarceration of this sentence he developed what is called a flag. Flags are markers that are placed on inmate's files with certain comments such violent tendencies, group builder, gang member, trouble maker, problem with mother, etc. etc.. The list goes on and on. Now days the files are stored on computers and allows more than one comment. Secondly, I feel the NCDOC deals with an inmate's conflict of the "norm" (leave us alone while we incarcerate your significant other.)by moving him far far away from all outside support as a message. Your best bet is call the Dept. Heads such as the Commissioner of DOC for an appointment. You will not get the Comm., but one of his messanger boys (MB) such as I was for the DOC. for a short period. The MB will take your comments , relay them in a meeting to the assoc. Comm. whom will either respond with a final answer or turn it over to the Boss (Comm.) .
As far as for Renee, You were a victim of a snitch for the Warden. One of his sentinels was watching your every move as instructed. You moved too fast and some old seasoned officer recognized a change in the normal pattern of a female staff member or officer. He/ she reported you to the supervisor or Warden and the dogs were sent sniffing. They placed snitches in your friend/son's cellblock whom listened to his comments during a domino or card game . They listened to him during his work time in the institution. All reports were given to the Warden. All reports supported your being asked for resignation. Your mistake was resigning because you sent the signal of "Yes, you got me. Now I will leave." Had you stayed in the system, backed off from the young man , let the dogs sniff, but get no scent; they would have backed-off. A quick story: When I worked in the institution I would talk to almost every inmate on a daily basis. Their character would develop and store in my brain. I would memorize as much as I could about their personal life as I could read in their file, as much as they would tell me, and what others would say. In the event of a conflict where they needed calming, I could say now you need to calm down from that behavior. You know that your mother is sick, or whatever I knew about someone he/she loved and use it for a diversion from the real reason he/she was mad. When they began talking , they would voice there anger and vent all frustration. Their problem would usually resolve itself or I would resolve it without their knowledge. Lastly in this story, the prisoners all loved talking to me for I listened and shot from the hip without restraint. When an inmate would snitch or tell me pertinent information that I inquired about, I would reward that person with something good such as banana sandwich in the future or a special visit recommendation or something valuable. I would talk to several guys before acting on the information as a diversion of "Who told it?" I got off the subject for a reason for you to see how intensive the prison and its staff are in a daily tour. Your behavior made you stand out like a sore thumb. All kind of neon signs were flashing.
Closure: First try this. Get your son to get an appointment with the asst. Warden through an officer that likes him. (The Warden don't want to talk to your son.) Have your son ask him what he has done without knowledge that has developed such a hostile and vindictive environment. The AW will ask him for explanation and he will say,"Everytime I get settled in an institution that I like and feel comfortable; I get transferred. I start hunting for a JOB and SELF-HELP programs, but I get moved 250 miles from home before I can grasp a grip. The AW will give some cock-ta-main-neon story of why his transfers have taken place or postpone an answer with I will get back to you while he reviews his file. Later the AW will give him an answer in all probability not on your son's clock,but on his/her clock. The meeting will get him one good request such as ,"Will you help me get a job that will lead to a minimum custody level. I AM TRYING TO GO HOME, BUILD A HONEST LIFE, AND BE PRODUCTIVE. My moms getting old and I am worried about her. She needs me very much. I need me a parole or a work release camp for better support to my mother. Will you help me get some relief? I will be a MODEL PRISONER from this day forward that uses my head. I will shine so bright that you will need sunglasses when entering the camp."(Use yes sirs and no sirs and thank you sirs to the AW and all staff from now on) The AW will evaluate his words and show your son some relief. It may take two or three months for the AW to signify a change, but he most likely will. Tell your son to put aside his mother's hot head character and get a good book for a long read and some quiet time. Tell him to follow the rules, don't get caught with dope or other contraband, and REPORT TO WORK rather he is sick, sad, ,mad, or any other reason. After three months, get his work supervisors and officers to give him a work report. Have them put one in his file and one in the AW handmail box. Everytime the AW sees your son's name , he will remember the conversation . Time will take care of itself for your son will be reviewed for mini. custody in 12/02, the AW will see the form for his approval, and most likely approve it. Provided he follows my plan to a tee, keeps a clear record, and WORKS .
Renee. You are probably a pretty lady that caught Ms. Budwoman's son's eye . you got his young vibrant, vigorous , hormones in the air burning. He was no good at that point for all he could think of was seeing you. Everyone noticed for there are no secrets in the penitenary. Everyone knows everyones buisness. Two cents of advice: Leave him alone . Let him build some time to a minimum custody camp. Let time heal all DOC wounds and communicate through his mom in non-signed letters which are incorporated inside her very long letters of pretty pictures of dogs, Jesus on the cross, the last family reunion, and other things that the mail room will look at fast and approve. Communicate on the phone without using your name. The mail room will become familiar with the letters and become less and less strict/ invasive. Don't abuse their complacency with contraband just alot of letters of encouragement. Change your name in the letters to some other person that his mother met in church. Get on his correspondence list with this name and a new P.O. Box. Send letters of encouragement and praise for all that progress he will be getting. Leave DOC alone for they have the winning hand and you can not beat them on a charge related to your working at a facility and talking to one of their inmates too much. Let the young man calm down. Help him build a new deameanor and reputation in the prison file. When the flags are reviewed, the social worker will also see all his progress and recognize change. Things will happen.
Mom as a last resort, call for a appointment, but give your son a chance to handle his own problems first. We all know that you LOVE him and would die before another devil harmed your baby, but you got to let him make some new decision for himself. The Lord up above will call you home one day and he needs to be ready for his own battles. God Bless and may the right answer come out of what I said somewhere in the dialogue..............38 Special........:).....

38 special you have some interesting advice to give. From your point of view then, why on earth would the DOC want to permanently restrict someone's wife who has done absolutely NOTHING wrong??? My husband has been ticket-free for the last three years, since I have been visiting him actually. Before that he just basically didn't give a shit and was getting major tickets right and left for all sorts of stuff. So if they looked they could see that I have been nothing but a good influence on him. I even remarked to the hearing officer that my visits were good for my husband and he said 'I know' but STILL went along with the permanent restriction the facility recommended. I can't even comprehend their reasons for doing this. So any insights you can give me would be truly appreciated. Thanks.

Ms. Isadore:
Thank you for opening up your world to me and giving me some insight into your problem. I am not completely clear on some areas and would like a little more detail, please. Let's say you are telling a story to a friend that just ask, " How did all the husband, visitation, and finally the restriction begin." Were you married before your husband's incarceration? Did he cause the restriction with one of his actions? Start at the beginning of this visitation timeframe and lead me to the end/ restriction such as I started visiting him three years ago because _________. See at this point, I am shooting in the dark with a blindfold over my eyes. Give me more information and I will do my best with an explanation. If your response is long, you can pull up the reply box in the category that you want , minus out the screen to the bottom rail of your monitor, disconnect from the web, write your response, drop it back to the rail with the minus sign (top right hand corner of the screen) reconnect to the web, reclick the website response in the lower rail, and submit your reply. Make sense. Advantage: You can stop for a break, and finish your response at your convenience.Concerned.........38 Special..:)

38 SPECIAL...

I REALIZE THAT YOU ARE COMMING FROM THE OPPOSITE SIDE OF THE FENCE AND YOU KNOW, I USED TO THINK EXACTLY AS YOU THINK.

THIS IS REALLY WHY BUTCH HAS BEEN FLAGGED, AS YOU CALL IT.... YES, HE IS A LEADER.... HE ALWAYS HAS BEEN... HE WAS PICKED AS ALL STATE, ALL CONFERENCE AND PLAYED IN THE NC/SC FOOTBALL GAME CALLED THE SHRINE BOWL WHEN HE WAS IN HIGH SCHOOL. HE RECEIVED A SCHOLORSHIP TO COLLEGE WITH THE FOOTBALL.

HE WAS A VERY GOOD KID AS MY OTHER TWO SONS ARE... BUT, YOU ARE RIGHT,,,HE IS A LEADER.... NOW, SINCE PRISON AND HAVING TO TAKE CARE OF HIMSELF AND DEFEND HIMSELF AT TIMES, HE WEIGHS 280 LBS. IS 6.2" TALL AND TALKS THE TALK AND WALKS THE WALK... PRISON GUARDS HAVE BECOME AFRAID OF HIM BECAUSE THEY KNOW HE WON'T BACK DOWN... HE ATTACKS NO ONE...HE HARMS NO ONE, HE TALKS BACK TO NO ONE. HE HAS NOT HAD A WRITE UP IN 7 YEARS. SINCE 1995..... NONE AT ALL..... HE DOES PRISON OUTREACH PROGRAMS.... NO HE IS NOT VIOLENT... HE IS A BIG MAN WITH A BIG HEART....

THIS IS WHY I HAVE BECOME A PRISON REFORM ACTIVIST AND WILL FIGHT THIS TO MY DYING DAY.... PRISON IS NOT NOT NOT HOW YOU DESCRIBE IT... I HAVE BEEN ON THE INSIDE OF MANY AND HAVE SEEN THE REAL TRUTH... I HAVE TALKED TO PARENTS OF CHILDREN IN VISITATION LINES. I HAVE SEEN THE DISRESPECT THEY ARE GIVEN WHEN TRYING TO VISIT.... I HAVE SEEN THE LACK OF RESPECT GIVEEN TO THEM CONCERNING THE CARE OF MEDICAL HELP OF THEIR CHILDREN... I HAVE ALSO SEEN SOME OF THEM DIE BECAUSE OF THE HURT YOUR D.O.C. HAS CAUSED....

THE REASON THEY HAVE THE VINDETTA AGAINST RENEE IS BECAUSE THEY HIRED HER (REMEMBER THEY DO A THOROUGH BACKGROUND CHECK) AND THEN SHE BECAME FRIENDS (AND I DO MEAN ONLY FRIENDS) WITH AN INMATE. THIS PUT REAL CHOCOLATE ON THEIR FACES..... YES, SHE PROBABLY HAS BEEN TOO VERY OUTSPOKEN WITH THEM... SHE IS FAIRLY YOUNG AND HAS NOT LEARNED THAT SOMETIMES YOU MUST USE TACK WHEN WRITING OR TALKING ABOUT SITUATIONS THAT ARE VERY EMOTIONAL TO YOU... ALSO, SHE IS A WOMAN, NOT A MAN... MEN CAN BE VERY COLD MOST OF THE TIME AND THEY DO NOT LOOK AT THINGS THE SAME AS A WOMAN...

ALSO, NO, BUTCH HAS NO MOTHER PROBLEM... I HAVE THREE SONS AND 6 GRANDCHILDREN.... MY FAMILY IS VERY CLOSE.... BUTCH'S FATHER WAS A MAJOR ALCOHOLIC AND YES, HE WAS ABUSED AS A CHILD...

DON'T JUDGE PEOPLE UNTIL YOU SIT FACE TO FACE WITH THEM AND LOOK THEM IN THE EYE.

I WORK EACH AND EVERY DAY AS DOES THE REST OF MY FAMILY... I AM AN ABOVE AVERAGE INCOME PERSON. I PAY MY TAXES AND DO WHAT IS NESCESSARY IN MY COMMUNITY... I ATTEND CHURCH REGULARLY AND AM INVOLVED IN CHURCH AND COMMUNITY WORK ALONG WITH THE PRISON REFORM... THIS IS MY HEARTS WORK BECAUSE I HAVE SEEN THE REAL TRUTH...OH AND BY THE WAY, I HAVE BEEN MARRIED TO A WONDERFUL MAN FOR 15 YEARS. HE HAS BEEN A GOOD STEPFATHER TO MY CHILDREN... HE ALSO IS A PRISON REFORM ACTIVIST BECAUSE HE HAS ALSO SEEN THE TRUTH...
SO GOD BLESS YOU 38 SPECIAL.... YOU KNOW, ONE THING I REALLY FEEL.... A NAME TAG LIKE 38 SPECIAL DOES NOT GIVE ME A VERY GOOD FEELING ABOUT YOU IN THE FIRST PLACE...

YOU NEED TO TAKE A REAL LOOK AT WHO YOU ARE...

KNOW WHAT YOU ARE SAYING BEFORE YOU SAY IT...

MY SINCEREST PRAYERS TO YOU AND YOURS

DONNA F. DAY

38 special,

It's not that I'm young, I mean that's a compliment but 42 is not young. I do not pretend to be someone I'm not. I tell people how I reaLLY FEEL. This is how I have always been it's my character and that is not going to change even when I'm 80.

I have worked in the professional field for many years and it is not that I don't know how to be professional, but I am not going to kiss someone's butt or be poltically correct.

BOOKGIRL.... IT'S NOT THAT THE QUESTIONS ARE SO BAD. I NEVER HAD A PROBLEM WITH THE D.O.C UNTIL RENEE CAME INTO BUTCH'S LIFE.... I WAS ABLE TO GET ANSWERS TO EVERYTHING I NEEDED. EVEN THO, THEY WERE NOT NICE AT TIMES AND IT WAS HARD TO GET SOMEONE WHO REALLY KNEW WHAT THEY WERE TALKING ABOUT, I STILL DID NOT HAVE PROBLEMS...

THEN, CAME NOVEMBER 2000 AND THE DOC HIRED RENEE.... THEN THEY ASKED FOR HER RESIGNATION AND MOVED BUTCH... FROM THAT MOMENT ON, THINGS HAVE BEEN VERY BAD....

I UNDERSTAND WHY YOU ARE QUESTIONING THIS, BECAUSE THIS IS WHAT I HAVE TRIED TO TELL THEM BOTH FOR TWO YEARS.... YOU MUST DEAL WITH THESE PEOPLE WITH KID GLOVES.... NO MATTER HOW BAD YOU FEEL THINGS ARE, YOU CANNOT TELL THEM OFF.

I JUST WANTED YOU TO UNDERSTAND WHY THE SITUATION HAS GOTTEN SO OUT OF HAND. THEY (THE DOC) REALLY HAS TAKEN THIS THING WITH RENEE OUT OF CONTEXT. I CANNOT FIND OUT WHY BECAUSE NO ONE WILL TELL ME. NOR WILL THEY TELL HER. SHE HAS WRITTEN TO EVERONE IN THE GOVERNMENT AND THE DOC... SHE REALLY IS A GOOD WOMAN. SOMETIMES SHE GETS SHARPE WITH HER QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS... THAT IS ALL...

SINCERELY
DONNA

PS.... WE ARE TRYING TO GET A MEETING SET UP BETWEEN NC LADIES SO WE CAN ALL GET TO KNOW EACH OTHER.. WHAT DO YOU THINK... LOOK AT APRIL CAT'S POST...

It's easy to put blame on other people. Butch and I have no regrets concerning our love for each other. I love him and he loves me. Alot of people in this world do not understand that kind of love. I would go to the ends of the earth for him and he would do the same for me. I have comitted no wrong doing and neither has Butch.

He and I know that you have to stand up for what is right and morale, not play games with the devil. That is a dangerous game to play. The DOC is doing this right now.

If you could speak to BUTCH right now you would see that he has no regrets for anything that has to do with our relationship.

Yes I feel GREAT PAIN right now cause the man I love is in seg. Do I feel GUILTY? No cause BUTCH and I have discussed this for a long time and we are old enough to make our own decisions, whether they carry consequences or not. The only sin we have ever comitted is LOVING EACH OTHER.

Thanks for caring

budwoman,

I read Aprilcat's post and will decline at this time. Thanks, though. If the rest of you get together, have fun!

As far as the situation with Butch and Renee is concerned, they aren't the first and they won't be the last. I've seen this same scenario repeated over and over. And over.

Ms. Budwoman:
Last response to a woman that is striking at everything in her reach. Some people can't appreciate good advise and find it offensive when given. I appreciate your prayers that were offered. I am not your enemy you are your own. Sometimes when people talk louder than others, they are heard and understood in the wrong manner. You told Ms . Renee to give me an answer as you told the story. If my response offended you, I apologize with the deepest sincerity. I have been "38 Special" since my CB radio days. I have owned many guns, but my favorite for target practice is the Smith and Wesson 38 for its true shooting ability. My first thoughts about the name tag, " Budwoman" were that of a person whom uses marijuana. Choosing to not like or trust someone because of what they have as a "name tag" is another form of prejudice which is highly prevalent in all of our America. Some people dislike Gays because of sexual preference. Some people dislike others because of color, but I love all that are lovable. Your dislike with me is not my "name tag", but my previous employer. I was juggling three jobs because all three would continuously lay-off. The State Of Alabama offered me a job with promised job security; it just happened as Corrections. I wanted something that gave my family food and support. Don't dislike a person for the job they accepted.
I commend your son "Butch" for his abilities and talent in football. I bet with his size and agility that he could really play the sport and be most assistive to his team. Somewhere between practices, he must have done something really bad or he would not have gotten 56 years. Oh! By the way, there are only two ways into Segregation. You are placed for your own protection or you receive a disciplinary (write-up). If he is as big as you say, he must be in lock-up for the Renee incident or some other violation. My prayers go out to him and his resolving the matter without a long stay in his present placement .
Prison reform has made most changes through the courts not the people that call theirselves activist. An activist has a personal ax to grind which blinds their vision for seeing real change. I worked in prison a long time, have seen alot of changes, and dealt with your kind on a daily basis. Prison is a place that deals with thousands of convicted felons and their families everyday. Sometimes no matter what a person says or does for another; it is not right nor enough.
This is why the operations are conducted on a "standard' basis . People get some type of special arrangement or treatment and all the others observing start yelling, "Why can't I get that type treatment." The system operates very well with basic care and consideration. When you price the cost of standard incarceration (avg. $14k? person) and tack on a special appropriation, the bill is tremendous. The prisons could not operate with these type stipulations for very long. Most taxpayers want felons put away from society for along time and sometimes forever. A small majority want special treatment given within the institutions. I advocate education of trades, skills, and advanced studies for a person's productive return. If you enjoy promoting change, then get involved in our schools. Counsel children whom live today in abused home environments. You can help prevent prison overcrowding by changing a few young childrens minds into becoming productive citizens such as youself.
Most prisoners have chosen a life of crime or as they put it, " A life of taking chances and cutting corners for personal gain." I have seen many men get out with a clear head full of ambition, but return when they are handed the cost of paying for their stay. We all know how expensive living in the free world can be, but some people will not accept the responsibilty. Another prison reform would be educating the free society into giving releasees another chance with employment. I have found this consequence as a major contributing factor for a high recidivist rate. So Ms. Budwoman, please expend some of your energy and "Love of work" in this direction for all the Butch's getting out in the near future. They need another chance at proving theirselves with an employer. GOD BLESS YOU AND EVERYONE ON THIS WEBSITE.
Sincerely submitted with all due respect,
..............38 VERY SPECIAL ...............:)

38 SPECIAL- I AM NOT GOING TO COMMENT ON ANY PART OF YOUR POST THAT DEALS WITH DONNA, BUTCH , OR RENEE BECAUSE THAT IS NOT MY PLACE. I WILL HOWEVER COMMENT ON YOUR REMARKS ABOUT PRISON ACTIVISTS B/C I AM ONE. YOUR REMARK THAT PRISON ACTIVISTS HAVE A "PERSONAL AX TO GRIND" IS SIMPLY NOT TRUE- THERE ARE MANY PEOPLE WHO ARE PRISON ACTIVISTS WHO HAVE NO PERSONAL CONNECTIONS TO THE CORRECTIONAL SYSTEM. PEOPLE WHO ARE JUST LOOKING FOR WAYS TO MAKE THE CORRECTIONAL SYSTEM JUST THAT--"A CORRECTIONAL SYSTEM" AND NOT A WAREHOUSING SITUATION WHERE MEN/WOMEN ARE BELITTLED, MENTALLY, PHYSICALLY AND SOMETIMES SEXUALLY ABUSED. CAGED AND TREATED LIKE ANIMALS, INDOCTRINED INTO A DOG-EAT-DOG SUBCULTURE THEY WANT NO PART OF BUT CAN'T GET AWAY FROM WITHIN THE PRISON , BUT THEN EXPECTED TO RETURN TO OUR SOCIETY AS A PRODUCTIVE CITIZEN. AND TO ANSWER YOUR NEXT QUESTION, YES I HAVE A LOVED ONE IN PRISON. BUT I HAVE BEEN CONCERNED ABOUT THESE VERY ISSUES LONG BEFORE HE AND I WERE EVER TOGETHER. I AM A SOCIAL WORKER BECAUSE I AM CONCERNED WITH PROBLEMS IN OUR SOCIETY AND HOW TO ADDRESS THEM. ONE OF THE MOST GLARING PROBLEMS IS THE STATE OF OUR CORRECTIONAL SYSTEM. WHAT GOOD DOES IT DO TO SPEND THE AMOUNT OF MONEY THAT IS SPENT ON INCARCERATION WHEN NO REHABILIATION IS OFFERED-THE VAST MAJORITY OF INMATES RETURN TO OUR COMMUNITIES- SHOULDN'T WE OFFER THEM OPPORTUNITIES WHILE INSIDE TO LEARN SKILLS, NOT JUST WORK SKILLS BUT CONFLICT RESOLUTION, ETC AND WHATEVER TREATMENT MIGHT BE REQUIRED? (SA, MH)--I DISAGREE THAT THE REASON FOR HIGH RECIDIVISM RATES IS B/C THESE EX-INMATES DONT "WANT" RESPONSIBILTY. MORE OFTEN THAN NOT THEY ARE DENIED THE CHANCE TO EVEN HAVE RESPONSIBILITIES-DENIED HOUSING, EMPLOYMENT ETC B/C OF THEIR RECORD. THOSE MEN AND WOMEN WHO TRULY WANT TO BECOME PRODUCTIVE MEMBERS OF SOCIETY ARE BACKED INTO A CORNER WITH NO OPTIONS WHERE THEY HAVE NO CHOICE BUT TO SURVIVE BY WHATEVER MEANS NECESSARY. YOU SAY THAT MEN RETURN TO PRISON B/C THEY ARE "HANDED THE COST OF PAYING FOR THEIR STAY" WELL HOW ARE THEY SUPPOSED TO PAY WHEN NO ONE WILL GIVE THEM A JOB-WHEN MANY OF THEM LEAVE PRISON WITH ALL FAMILY TIES SEVERED, FEW IF ANY POSSESSIONS AND $40 IN THEIR POCKETS.??? NO WHERE TO LIVE, NOTHING TO EAT-NO WAY TO PROVIDE FOR HIS OR HER MOST BASIC NEEDS-THEY REOFFEND AND THERE ARE MORE VICTIMS, SAFTEY IS JEAPORDIZED, ETC---WHY DON'T WE DO SOMETHING PROACTIVE LIKE HAVE BETTER TRANSITIONAL PLANNING FOR INAMTES ABOUT TO RETURN TO THE COMMUNITY? IT IS A WIN-WIN SITUATION FOR EVERYONE.

I ALSO THINK, NO I KNOW, THAT PEOPLE MAKE CHANGES. NOT COURTS-PEOPLE. I BELIEVE VERY STRONGLY IN THE QUOTE I END EACH OF MY POSTS WITH.

Bravo, sherri

Ms. Sherri13:
I agree with your proactive idea of transitional planning. The DOC has developed Work Release for transitional opportunity. The Federal System offers halfway houses for releasees. I agree with your thoughts on coping skill seminars such as conflict resolution. More prisons are offering Therapeutic Communities inside for prisoners that are run by prisoners and social workers. You have some very good ideas that deserve reviewing. You should be a Social Worker inside prisons for you would make a difference. You should write your state representative and senators with these same ideas for they would probably use them. Lastly, not all activist are ax grinders, but the majority , as a whole, began their quest for personal reasons usually due to a situation involving a significant other. An example of an activist organization is "Mothers Against Drunk Drivers" which was started by mothers that had lost a loved one to a drunk driver. I hope my example explains my position toward ax grinding. By all means, please carry on with your activism for it is a needed thing.
When Henry Ford built his first car, he said, "The cost can be reduced by building in mass production." The Correctional System operates under the same type platform in order to please the other group, which is still the majority, wanting all major offenders locked up and away from their homes. The system will warehouse offenders until someone develops a structure for changing offenders behavior. Get you a job in prison, create strategies of redevelopment which produces productive citizens, and design it with an economical flavor. You would probably be elected Governor of your state. Thank you for your comments.............38 Special.............:)

Bookgirl,

Do you or have you worked for the DOC. You answer alot of your questions in the same way as they do.

WAY TO GO SHERRI..... I GUESS THE PROBLEM WITH ME AND 38 SPECIAL IS JUST EXACTLY WHAT HE SAYS.... HIS SMART MOUTH AND THE FACT THAT HE WORKED AS A GUARD FOR THE D.O.C. I HAVE DEALT WITH HIS TYPE SO OFTEN THAT YES, I AM VERY DEFENSIVE....


38......SORRY IF I HAVE UPSET YOU..... REALLY DID NOT MEAN TO.... I HAVE A GREAT DEAL OF RESENTMENT RIGHT NOW..... D.O.C. IS NOT ANYTHING THAT I FEEL IS GOOD.... I REALLY DO FEEL THAT 75% OF THE PEOPLE THERE ARE EVIL...

SORRY IF YOU FELL INTO THAT CLASSIFICATION

DONNA

P.S. BUDWOMAN IS EXACTLY WHAT IT SAYS... I HAVE WORKED 18 YEARS FOR THE BUDWEISER DISTRIBUTOR HERE IN MY TOWN.

Gidget:

Thanks for posting.... Yes, This is the same... If you have ever met him you would remember him.... He is a man of his own.... He causes no problems, but deals with them if they come upon him..... He is not violent at all, but he will stand his ground. Most people who do meet him remember who he is... I get letters from ex-inmates and even inmates now who have served time with him trying to find out how he is.... Yes, This is an interesting story and one that is almost impossible to believe from beginning in 1990 to current time.... Maybe 38 special is right, maybe Renee and I have made too much noise, but, somehow, these things have to be changed.

Thanks for your message...
Donna

donna,

38special had some valid points. he (or she) has inside info. & seems to be trying to help. if we make enemies of each other, the system wins.

anger is like cancer. doesn't eat flesh. eats the spirit.

been there,
gidget

Thank you girl... I know you are absolutely right... It is just a very hard situation to watch day in and day out...

Thanks for your post...

My Love
Donna

Renee,

Do I work or have I worked for the DOC?

No, but thanks for the laugh. If only you knew...
oh my goodness, if only you knew...

Bookgirl.... I think Renee and I both are beginning to become paranoid..... Sorry Hon.... Did not mean any harm and I sure know she didn't....We are beginning to feel like the walls are watching us...

Love Ya
Donna

Donna,

I can understand your paranoia. Everything we write here is available for all the world to see. That's the nature of the Internet. That's why I haven't answered questions about where I live, used my real name, or discussed my line of work or who my employer is. I guess I'm paranoid, too, but I prefer to err on the side of caution.

I guess my desire to remain anonymous is what makes me appear suspicious ... like a DOC employee hiding in the bushes.:D

Originally posted by 38special
Oh! By the way, there are only two ways into Segregation. You are placed for your own protection or you receive a disciplinary (write-up). If he is as big as you say, he must be in lock-up for the Renee incident or some other violation. My prayers go out to him and his resolving the matter without a long stay in his present placement . ,

I have not been active in this thread but just came across this part and wanted to respond.

I know of another way to get into "Seg". It's called "Investigation" in the Feds and it is a fact that it has been used for retribution. (Don't have the court case no.'s but I have come across lots of them) No "shots", "tickets" or "writeups" are required, and they can hold you for up to 6 months or longer, if I recall correctly.

THANKS DAVID....

THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT HAS HAPPENED HERE.


DONNA

Let me clarify something about my last post here concerning my desire to remain anonymous. It doesn't have anything to do with the DOC at all. I doubt they monitor the site, and if they do, I really don't care. Sometimes I wish they WOULD see it so they can have a better understanding of what WE are going through.

I'm a private kind of person, and I'm very quiet about my situation with my husband. Few people in the town where I live know about our situation, and I prefer to keep it that way.

If I posted personally identifying information here, anyone who has access to the Internet can see it. If I want my boss, my co-workers, my neighbors, my nosy relatives, etc., to know my business, I'll tell them personally. I don't want them reading about it on the Internet.

(Besides I think my husband deserves some privacy about his past when he comes home. He's never lived in this area, and I'd like for people to get to know him before they make judgments about him based on his past.)

Also, I've taught several classes in Internet safety, and I always (ALWAYS) advise people not to post personally identifying information on the Internet . I think it's just a good idea for personal safety, but then again, I tend to be more cautious than most.

I just didn't want my last post to generate paranoia about the DOC. I said something about this once before, and I'm afraid people thought I was referring to the DOC. I'm not.

bookgirl: i understand your need for anonymity. while i certainly don't care if anyone knows who i am, i keep my friend in florida anonymous because he is a very private person, and i would never go against his desires. so, i keep his name and any identifying information off the boards. :)

BOOKGIRL- WHAT YOU SAY MAKES PERFECT SENSE- YOU HAVE EVERY RIGHT TO DISCLOSE AS LITTLE OR AS MUCH AS YOU DESIRE HERE ON PTO--EVERYONE FEELS DIFFERENTLY ABOUT THIS AND WE ALL SHOULD DO WHAT WE FEEL COMFORTABLE WITH AS INDIVIDUALS

I agree aprilcat, when I post things about my man I use "EJ" which are his initials.
I have told him about PTO & he is ok w/me being on here to get help & to be around people that care. He does want me to be careful because after all it is the internet as bookgirl stated. I was posting my name before, but I decided to stop that.

Mr. Fed-X:
You're exactly right that's my mistake. I had totally forgotten about inv. . A prisoner in the Ala. System can be placed in investigation for 72 hours without a formal charge. Upon completing the 72 hours, a charge must be placed or the investigation is over and the person must be released. Rare situations with the Wardens approval can extend the inv. for 72 more hours. Extension usually occur 40% of the time in an Ala. inv..Thank you for your inpute and for making the correction. I STAND CORRECTED......SORRY.
Ms. Budwoman , I want to make a personal and public apology for I have been allowing myself to be unacceptable. Your son is a very important person to you as my children are to me. I will thank you for your kind response in my direction and respectfully bow from futher discussion about your son and his terrible situation. PLEASE ACCEPT MY APOLOGY. Sometimes our emotions erupt into hurtful words. I can certainly understand your feelings toward someone's decisions and actions toward your children. I have four wonderful boys myself that I will always protect, defend , and love through any situation. Good luck with helping your son and family with their problems for resolution..38.Special..........

LOL,
Bookgirl they thought I was DOC employee too.

38 SPECIAL.....

THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR THOUGHTS.... IT IS VERY HARD TO SEE YOUR CHILDREN GO THROUGH ALL THIS PAIN.... I AM REALLY FIGHTING THE ANGER AND NO, IT IS NOT YOUR FAULT AT ALL..... I REALLY HAVE APPRECIATED YOUR COMMENTS BECAUSE YOU DO MAKE A LOT OF SENSE IN MOST SITUATIONS ALTHOUGH WE HAVE DIFFERENT OPINIONS. YES, I TOO AM ANGRY WITH BUTCH FOR MAKING SUCH STUPID DECISIONS, BUT I CAN ALSO UNDERSTAND HOW HE COULD MAKE THEM BECAUSE HONESTLY, THIS SITUATION HAS GOTTEN SO MESSED UP THAT IT WILL NEVER BE UNTANGLED... HE HAS PROBABLY MESSED UP WITH HIS PAROLE IN NOVERMBER AGAIN AND HERE I AM SO WORRIED THAT I AM MAKING MYSELF SICK OVER IT..... I REALLY HAVE NOT EVEN BEEN ABLE TO WRITE HIM A SENSIBLE LETTER UNTIL THIS MORNING...

I REALLY AM SORRY FOR MY SHARPNESS AND GOD BLESS YOU FOR WHO YOU ARE . MAY THE WIND BE AT YOUR BACK AND IF YOU HAVE ANYTHING TO OFFER THAT YOU THINK MIGHT HELP ME LET ME KNOW BY ALL MEANS....

BLESS YOU...

DONNA

HONEY,

PLEASE UNDERSTAND THAT IF I HAVE SAID ANYTHING TO HURT YOU OR MADE YOU FEEL UNCOMFORTABLE, PLEASE ACCEPT MY SINCEREST APOLOGY....

I AM NOT MYSELF RIGHT NOW BUT I REALLY DO UNDERSTAND YOUR FEELINGS ABOUT BEING PRIVATE.... I USED TO BE THE VERY SAME WAY... I WOULD NEVER HAVE EVER GOTTEN ON A WEBSITE AND POSTED INFORMATION ABOUT MY SON. OVER THE PAST YEARS, I HAVE CHANGED BECAUSE I SAW THE PRIVATE THING WAS NOT WORKING AND BUTCH AND I HAVE TALKED ABOUT MANY TIMES MAKING HIS SITUATION PUBLIC...

NOW, SOMETIMES I WONDER IF THAT IS THE RIGHT THING TO DO.... WHO KNOWS, I SURE DON'T

BLESS YOU MY CHILD AND MY SINCEREST WISHES FOR THE BEST TO YOU...

DONNA

Bookgirl, I do empathize with your desire for privacy, I feel the same way about my situation. Also to Budwoman and Renee, I also understand your paranoia; speaking from personal experience, it only takes one time for someone you trusted to burn you and stab you in the back and then you do become a little paranoid about everyone.

HEY GUYS- WE ARE ALL FACING VERY DIFFICULT AND FRUSTRATING SITUATIONS-EMOTIONS RUN HIGH AND WE BECOME ESPECIALLY SENSITIVE AND SOMETIMES DEFENSIVE-HELL, INCARCERATION IS A HARD THING FOR ALL INVOLVED TO DEAL WITH!! SOMETIMES WE FEEL BACKED AGAINST THE WALL WITH NO CHOICE BUT TO COME UP FIGHTING. OTHER TIMES WE FEEL ALMOST TO THE POINT OF DEFEAT, BUT WE MUSTER UP THE STRENGTH TO HANG ON. I JUST WANT TO TO SAY-FIRST- I LOVE YOU ALL- AND I THINK EACH AND EVERYONE OF YOU ARE A VALUABLE PART OF PTO- I THINK IT IS IMPORTANT THST WE HAVE REPRESENTATIONS OF ALL WALKS OF LIFE AND DIFFERING OPINIONS HERE-IT IS AN ASSET TO BE ABLE TO SEE THINGS THROUGH SOMEONE ELSE'S EYES--WE ARE ALL DIFFERENT PEOPLE WHO DID NOT EVEN KNOW EACH OTHER EXISTED UNTIL A SHORT TIME AGO--BUT WE ARE HERE BECAUSE WE HAVE AT LEAST ONE COMMON THREAD-SOME OF US WILL MAKE LIFETIME FRIENDS HERE, OTHERS WILL DROP IN NOW AND THEN TO OFFER SUPPORT AND A BIT OF WISDOM- EITHER WAY WE ARE ALL PART OF A FAMILY OF SORTS-SOMETIMES WE WILL DISAGREE, SOMETIMES WE WILL HAVE A BAD DAY, SOMETIMES WE WILL BE THE SPARK THAT IGNITES THE MOTIVATION IN OTHERS--I JUST WANT EACH OF YOU TO KNOW THAT I APPRECIATE YOU, YOUR THOUGHTS, YOUR SUPPORT AND YOUR CONCERN. IT IS OKAY FOR US TO DISAGREE OR SEE THINGS DIFFERENTLY--THAT IS WHY THE WORLD IS A RAINBOW OF COLORS AND NOT JUST BLACK AND WHITE-- AS LONG AS WE RESPECT EACH OTHER WE WILL BE OKAY. GOD BLESS YOU ALL.

Ms. Budwoman:
Bless your heart. Please write your parole board an inquisitive letter explaining your son's reason for incarceration, and consistent good behavior. Inform them that you are inquiring about all requirements expected for your son's parole approval in November, 2002 for preparational purposes of a successful release and parole.
Discuss his home arrangements, have a job offer (promise) before writing which you include with your letter. Discuss your capabilities of arranging successful release plans with out-of-state parole (2nd alternative). The board in Alabama would always write some type of response. your son's institutional record will speak for itself. The Alabama DOC does not remember minor conflicts of this nature very long. Your son did (and they know ) what any man would do, FALL IN LOVE, human nature of persons of any sexual orientation. If your son did not act out in a violent nature at the climax of the situation, he is fine. They probably placed an investigation hold on him for observation. When serious incidents occur (death in family, spouse writes for a divorce, etc.), a prisoner is more prone for escape, suicide, or violent behavior (just listing not indicating). The system will sometimes place prisoners in segregation for a brief observation period. I might add that brief means up to three months. Sleep, eat, read, write letters, and shhhhh! No misbehavior. This type placement can be good also for no misbehavior represents and displays good control of your innner being and your ability to make rational decisions (not saying that he can't , it just looks good in their eyes). Prayer helps because God makes the final decision.
When the guards see Butch acting in a rational manner ( reading his Bible, newspaper, books, writing letters, etc.), they make a mental and written note of this behavior. Good things usually occur behind good notes. Ok! So much for preaching this point. Sherri13 seems that she could be an asset in writing an assertive letter for you (not that you can't , but a different person can usually write a letter for me without becoming too personable). The board likes well thought out plans. They like knowing the community supports his return. His pastor's involvement in aiding his return and need of counseling in times of crisis ( that we all have including ME). Well thought out plans. Good luck. If you can trust my review of your rough draft, please send it in a private message e-mail. If the letter works and you do not mind publishing it on the net, let everyone concerned download a copy for their letter. Your son has spent twelve years of his life for manslaughter; the board knows that is way too much time for a crime conviction of that nature. I'm here if you need me for assistance............ Sincerely......38 Special.............:)............................ ........

38 special

Well, so far, I think he has acted in a very rational manner. Things seem to be O.K. per his case anaylst at Salisbury..... Thank you so very much for your outline... This will help me in November... I have gone to Raleigh 8 times over the last 12 years to sit with the Parole Board to do the exact thing you have suggested above... Someday, maybe they will let him come home....

Thanks very much for your careing... That means a great deal to me...


Sincerely
Donna

Ms. Budwoman,
You are welcome and good luck this time. I will call some of my old prison co-workers and see what we can do or who we may know in North Carolina. Do not get your hopes up for it is a mere shot in the dark. Cross your fingers and pray.
Sincerely,
38 Special.........:)

Here is some of the information I found, like I had talked to you about. The following are all pro-bono legal services in NC and I just am listing the ones that stated they would get involved in individual rights...which I believe have been violated here. Remember strength in numbers...There are several here, but all you need is 1 attorney to get started! Also, I didn't know what county you were located, so some may be eliminated right away. I'd call ALL of them and if they can't help, always ask for advice or referrals!
1. Catawloa Valley Legal Serv. Inc, Private Attorney
Involvement Program, Morganton, NC
(704) 437-8280
2. Orange County..North State Legal Serv. In Private...
(919) 732-8137
3. Fayetteveille County...Cumberland County Bar Assoc.
Volunteer Lawyer Program
(910) 483-1848
4. Hertford County Legal Serv. of the Coastal Plains
Ahoskie, NC (919) 332-5124
5. Lee County...Lee County Volunteers Lawyers Progam
Sanford, NC (919) 774-6241
6. Legal Service of Mechlenburg County, Charlotte, NC
(704) 376-1600
7. Mecklenburg County Bar Assoc. Charlotte, NC
(704) 375-8621
8. New Hanover County Legal Ser. of the Lower Cape Fear
Private Attorn. Involvement Program (910) 763-6207
9. Pisgah Legal Services Moiuntain Area Volunteer Lawyers
(704) 253-0406 (800) 489-6144

Legal Service of North Carolina...Some more Pro-Bono Info:
www.Isnc.org
www.ncjustice.org (not quite sure about this one?)
www.geocities.com/nclap8

***www.legal-assist-now.com (liked this one!)

When you call, just say you'd like some infomation about individual right's being violated and you were referred to this service....Good Luck to you all...Let me know how it goes!
Pamela

THANKS A LOT!!

PAM

THANK YOU VERY VERY MUCH..... I AM GIVING THIS TO RENEE TODAY.... GOD BLESS AND KEEP YOU CHILD.... I HOPE THINGS GO GREAT WITH YOUR DEGREE.

MY LOVE
DONNA

DONNA-

NC PRISONER LEGAL SERVICES INC RALEIGH
919-856-2300 PHONE
FAX 919-856-2223

Sherri- that one sounds like the best one of all!! Hopefully these types are located in all the states...Thanks......

YOUR LINKS ARE GREAT RESOOURCES TOO PAM- I JUST HAPPEN TO KNOW OF THIS ONE BECAUSE THEY HAVE A REPRSENTAIVE WHO HAS ATTENDED NC CURE MEETINGS

Sherrie, This NC Prisoner's Legal Services if it is the same one I'm thinking about, they won't do anything to help. I believe this organization was set up through Raleigh for the NCDOC. Correct me if I am wrong. Budwoman wrote a letter to them about our visitation problem and they pretty much said the NCDOC can do whatever they want. Butch contacted them before and they wouldn't help him either.

If this is not the same, I will be glad to try.

38 Special,

Thanks for the outline for help with parole. I know Donna has tried this approach many times and it falls on DEAF EARS at the NC Parole Commission. You should read the parole petition we had last year, and they still turned him down. I sat right there in the room and knew that they wouldn't give it to him. It wouldn't have mattered what we said. Maybe if we had a Million Dollars we could get him out.

I was looking on the internet yesterday and saw where former Carolina Panther runningback Ray Carruth got a lengthy sentence of 24 years for First Degree Murder (Conspiricy)

Tell me what is wrong with our system when a man can plan out a murder on his pregnant girlfriend and get only 24 years and Butch gets manslaughter due to the fact he was fighting to save his life, and he gets 52 years. Ray Carruth stands a chance of coming home before Butch and he just went in.

This is the kind of thing that makes me MAD!!!!