I was just curious whether you all think a person who is in for theft can be rehabilitated when he comes out.

How about burglary?

How about aggravated assault?

How about a crime like murder?

Can a person who is "in" for something violent be a gentle person on the inside or should someone worry about abusive patterns spilling over into their relationship too? Or can someone who says they want to change, really change?

I won't ask "can they be rehabilitated" because I know this is a question that gets discussed at length around here. But if person habitually commits violent crimes, is it a guarantee that they will be violent in other interactions as well?

I'm just curious. I'm having trouble reconciling the violent nature of some of the crimes Ken's been involved in, with the man who sends me these beautiful drawings, tells me he wants us to go to church together when he gets out, etc. He says he wants to change - that he's left his life of crime behind him - and I want to believe him, but I know how easy it is to make promises when you're in prison. (I won't say what he's in for...I just used the above examples to get a feel for the scale, in my mind, of the violence of each of these crimes.)

Anyone have experience with a relationship with a person whose committed crimes of a violent nature? Does this mean they will be violent or abusive in personal relationships, or is that not necessarily so?

- Jen

I think it depends on the individual and how much he wants to change.

My husband has a violent past and spending over 16 years in prison for something he DIDN'T do didn't help his attitude. He has a "reputation" and most prisoners give him a wide berth. But that's necessary in prison.

But since we met, I have seen BIG changes in him, in both his temperment and his attitude. WHen he talks about our future, its without the old lifestyle. Those changes I have seen in him tell me that he is a different man now. It isn't in the telling its in his eyes and body language that tells me its for real.

mrs. d

I truly believe that anyone that wants to change can in fact effect change in their lives. People don't change because we want them to - they change because they see value in the change and a purpose for the change. ( I will add a disclaimer that change may not be possible if the person has some underlying psychological reason for the habitual nature of their crime - these folks may need more assistance than just the personal will to change)

A lot of crime (IMO) comes from circumstance - and a lot of times it is socioeconomic circumstance... a broad statement I know...

Having the will to change is the first step. Acknowledging their 'habits' (if you will) and developing the strength to effect the change is also important.

Many of these folks need much love and support to change. We must be the first line of defense for them and encourage the change but also we must allow them to fall down once in a while. Change takes time, will, faith, hard work, love, and understanding.

My Partner is starting to see what change does and will bring to him. It is tough inside those walls because even 'good behavoir' is not rewarded the way it should, so the original behavior that put them there just perpetuates.

Change is about your method of thinking and change in action or circumstance requires a change in thinking.

Don't remember who said this but...

"A problem cannot be solved at the same level of thinking in which it was created."

Also don't remember who said this one...

"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing again, and again, and expecting a different result."

From my standpoint if you can change the way in which you think you can effect change in your daily life in a positive and long lasting way. You have got to want it though...

I agree. The key word is just that, they must WANT to change. I knwo many that has the desire to want the change, but some struggle with it on a daily basis.

Going ethereal here.... hang on...

Violent crime doesn't necessarily mean violent person.
Theft crime generally means you're working with a thief.

I continue to go with the policy that I'll give anyone the benefit of the doubt until and unless they prove to me that they are 1. a liar, 2. a thief, or 3. Crazy. Prove any of those three and I'll take appropriate action to keep you out of my day.

Back to that first thing... Violent crime not being necessarily a given that you've got a violent person on your hands....

I had the luxury of being locked up with women, and most all of them who had dead husbands, had absolutely no history of being violent. The one time they raised a hand or knife or pistol, they made it count.

It is just as likely that a person (male) could be in for a perfectly lousy Tuesday night in DesMoines which went from bad to worse and someone got dead over it.

It also is likely that people who have an underwhelming respect for women and others on this earth are equally inclined to think with their fists and that's a dangerous character flaw. For some, unfortunately, that becomes their identity and if it suits them, leave them to it..(see--keep them out of your day).

Any of the folks in the last two scenarios can make some change in their lives.. We all can... The first thing that would need to happen is that they'd need to see there might be something WRONG with it. That might be a long time coming, if it ever does. But it isn't impossible, and it happens every day in some joint or other... The light comes on and things get brighter.

As for that thieving thing... That's a different sort of character flaw.. Most property crimes are (historically) done to support drug habits. If not, it's done for greed and an overwhelming disregard for the right of the person who bought the stuff.
Going forward from this position is usually tricky.

If you had your druthers.... Would you rather be knocked in the head by someone who thought you looked at them funny, or by someone who thought you had a nickel in your pocket?

Maybe, with a few of these people seeing the light,-- you'll never have to decide for yourself...

Keep a good thought.

yes i agree a volent crime does not mean its a life long thing a person who wants to change is very im portant and i also believe the envioroment they are in has something to do with how they will do and the support they have and some will need counseling or medication to help but i b elieve anyone can change that has willpower and desire peace and love mary

I agree with everyone - it's up to the man to WANT to change. A man can make promises all he wants, but walking the walk when he comes home is the key. Trey was in for burglary, and I know that he will never go into someone's house and steal from them ever again, but I have no clue about other offenses.

i hate to tell you what i think but i don't believe that violence can change in a man! i am talking about domestic though! and if it isn't domestic then i think that it depends on the situation! good luck!

I can only voice an opinion based on my own experience...and I believe very strongly that each case is different. Having made that disclaimer - the violence that I know about first hand comes in two packages:
domestic violence...forget it. If he (or she, for that matter) hit you once, he'll hit you again. In fact, if he hit one girlfriend/wife, he'll hit the next one, too. There may be periods of calm, but sooner or later another woman will feel the result of that anger/frustration/bad self image (I don't care what they call it). I can understand all the psycho babble that explains why someone resorts to violence in personal relationships, but I really don't care what got them to that point. All I care about is that no other person has to live in fear of a partner. Look out for those people. 99 to 100 they'll do it again.
Second kind of violence: the kind that usually gets someone locked up - the kind that happens during the commission of a crime, or is the crime itself. That kind tends to be a one shot deal...unless we're talking armed robbery, which tends to be a repeating kind of life style! Almost all people who murder other people do so once. Think about it: it's so out of the ordinary to come across a "serial killer" that the media goes nuts when it happens. The circumstances that lead to a killing vary so much as to be almost impossible to categorize, but there is that one commonality: 99 out of 100 murders are one shot deals (if you'll pardon the expression).

And - having said all THAT - I have to add that "wanting" to change isn't enough...neither is saying that you're going to change. If, on the other hand, you're dealing with someone who is willing to go through the long-term self-examination and counseling that may help him (or her) change the way he lives his life, then you've got a chance of seeing a meaningful change. Otherwise, it's just talk - and we know how cheap that is.

I think someone who's done a violent crime can change while in prison if given the motivation to do so or the desire. For instance, I think that my husband has made lots of changes in his thinking because of having me to care about and, especially, our son. But I think the prison environment makes that difficult and he really has to work at it. I think getting older makes a big difference too - and making a firm decision to stay away from drugs and other similar activities. My concern is for when he is released, after spending so much time in there and being treated as nothing. I think it will take a really strong support network to help him maintain those changes and get used to a whole new culture out here. I think he's ready to give it his best try. Zelda

If those who care for them doubt them, they just may doubt themselves...Besides everyone is capable of change, if they want to change...They will, but they have to want it.

On the whole, most people are capable of change. But I have to wholeheartedly agree with JDay, it is not enough to want to change. The person has to do something to effect the change and to maintain it when they have made it. They need to examine themselves and their motivatations. They have to come up with a plan of action. They have to practice that plan of action everyday, 24/7. They have to break old habits and replace them with new healthy ones. It's not enough to desire change, one has to make it happen. And it has to start with the person who wants to make the change. You can't fix some one...only they can. You can support them and guide them and teach them... Anyway, that's my 2 cents worth. As for the rehabilitation thingy? A lot of time it's not a matter of rehabilitation. It's more an issue of habilitation. That is, learning the things that they never learned during the times in their lives that it was critical to learn them. For instance, someone who started taking drugs at 15 will have stunted emotional and social growth because they stop growing during those drugging years. I work with chemically dependent individuals in the correctional system and a lot of the behaviors that I see are like those that I would see kids do. The guy may be 35 years old but he's acting like a 15 year old and thinking like that too. That's why (IMHO) any treatment program should have components that address social skills, life skills, education, emotional growth, as well as chemical dependency treatment. Oh don't even get me started on this. I could ramble all night long. :rolleyes:

Yes I suppose that is true, but I still maintain my original post change is possible which I believe answers your question no? Hehe. :-D

They have to want it. Even then it does not happen over night. It is a gradual process.

IMO. We are who we are at the core. We can only change so much. I think if you really want to change you can make some differences. But once again...we are who we are. Just don't expect more than he is capable of doing. I'm not by any means saying bail out, he'll never change. I'm simply saying don't expect too much.

Good luck

I have learned something valuable. Violence is very rarely a personality trait. People hurt others because somebody hurt them, this may be all they know. I'm not nieve, there are deffinetly cases where people are crazy or sadistic. Drugs and alcohol fuel the rage inside, often making people act irrational and out of character. Why is an importan question.
Not only am I engaged to a violent offender, but my brother is also in prison for violent crimes. I love both of them, and have taken the time out to reach out and learn piece by piece why they act the way they do, and you know what once i Knew the truth their reasoning really didn't seem so far off. If He will let you close enough to him..ask

Let me make something else clear, someone with domestic violence in their history is dangerous. This is a learned behavior. often they see us as the enemy and our love can be taken entirely the wrong way. I really don't believe it's worth the risk. A man physically stronger than a women this is the way god made us. I just don't want you to confuse these two. Just because your loved one has violence in his past doesn't mean you need to be afraid. what kind of violence and why are big issues and are the key to the answers your looking for.

After saying this my main point to you is it might be worth your while to spend less time worrying about him changing and more time understanding why he did the things he did.
You may very well learn that the things hes done are miniscule in proportion to the things hes been through.


WE ARE ALL VICTIMS.. CRIMINALS ARE NOT BORN BUT MADE THROUGH YEARS AND YEARS OF SYSTAMATICAL ABUSE!!

Well, I had an interesting day yesterday, just wanted to come here to share. In the even i get a little spiritual, its just me being me i guess. i believe its the answer, so its part of my posts.

My man and i have written for almost 6 years now. 4 of them as friends and the last 2 years in a deep love relationship. I have know him for nearly 12 years now. He had been in solitary confinement for 4 years. He chose to make this situation help him as opposed to letting it break him. So he worked hard, thought and came to terms with all of the blackness in his soul. It has been a long hard process for him, as well as for me by his side, but...it finally happened.

he said to me...
"There is no spiritual elevation in making another man bleed." See its not like he said well i am in prison, so i know i wont do that again. He went deep into the recesses of his soul, found the reasons, and changed it. Not so he wont be in the hole or go to prison again, but to become a better man.

He got the big picture. He learned the spiritual lesson. Its all different some how now.

So yea, I feel they can change. I have been at his side watching it happen for the past year now. Not only taking responsibility, but not making excuses for the rage. But acknowledging it, dealing with it and changing it.

Thanks so much for your support....

My ex-husband who I have recently reunited with is currently in prison for aggravated battery against me among a few other charges. I am not the type to make excuses but he was an alcholic and a drug addict. At the time when it happened I was only 23 and didn't understand that he needed help. He initially got probation for it and we got back together. Well as it always does the drugs and drinking helped him violate. It was not until he had been in for almost a year and a half did he finally pop up and say "Hey I have a drinking and drug problem". Since this awakening he has undergone a program that Florida has called Modality. It is a intense AA. He has turned to God and is a changed person.
I have had a lot of people tell me that he really hasn't changed that it is all a game and wait until he gets out but, it's me that has been with this man for 10 years and lived through it. I was the biggest skeptic there was.
I do believe in second chances and I believe he deserves one. I pray that he will stick with it for the kids sake. But no matter what I know I gave it my all!!!

You guys are great I have only been a member for a week and I feel so comfortable. It is so nice to know I am not the only one in my sistuation. Thank you all so much!!!

Shelly, I am happy you are getting support here. Ya know, when i first fell in love with my man, back 2 years ago, I was talking to another woman that was in a relationship with a convict. She said to me "Every man deserves to be loved, even if it is by just one person on this earth." That stuck with me and it has become words i live by. Drugs and alcohol ruin lives. They are a factor in our situation as well. I often find its is the great guys, that use so often. They have so much emotion, they cant handle it, cant cope, so they use. There are no guarantees in life, and none in recovery either, thats why they say one day at a time. If you choose to forgive him, its your choice, its your life, no one can judge you for that. But they do, like i get judged...but know that you are supported here.

Dawn

Time changes everyone. I am not the same person I was 20 years ago, nor am I the same person I waS before my son got into trouble 3 years ago.