http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117,15014601-2,00.html

Indonesian police arrest 9 Australian citizens allegedly trying to smuggle heroin from Bali to Australia. The Australian Federal Police had been investigating the operation and tipped off the Indonesian authorities, who in turn arrested the suspects. Indonesia has death penalty for drug smuggling.

Why didn't our government (Australia opposed to the death penalty) wait for the suspects to arrive in Australia and arrest them here? They could then be tried for importation of drug of dependence into Australia, and face jail sentences but not death. The question has been posed to the Australian Foreign Minister, Alexander Downer. His response was that the offences were committed in Indonesia and therefore Indonesian authorities had to be involved.

There is no law that requires that a suspect be arrested immediately after committing the offence. Indeed, police very often keep suspects under surveilance for a period of time before making an arrest.

Is Australia trying to save face with Indonesia after being accused by Jakarta of acting inappropriately by intervening in the Corby case? Are we selling out 9 citizens to the firing squad to illustrate our harsh stance on drugs and to improve our relations with Indonesia? It is difficult to understand our federal government's double standards: On one hand lobbying for Indonesian executive intervention in the Corby trial; on the other handing over 9 Australians who now may be facing the firing squad. What is Canberra's agenda?

Anyone have any views on this?

Lightkeeper

Well , the answer is obvious to me, as it should be to you , unlike the Corby trial, these people have made admissions, they have made incriminating statements, there are video's of the drugs strapped to them , you must say a big difference.

The Australian Government would have treated this individually and even so, I believe they will also make representation in this case as well.

There is no comparison between the Corby case and this one, can you tell me if at the very least this case will be heard by their peers or is this going to be another state goverment run hearing.

Lightkeeper

Well , the answer is obvious to me, as it should be to you , unlike the Corby trial, these people have made admissions, they have made incriminating statements, there are video's of the drugs strapped to them , you must say a big difference.

The Australian Government would have treated this individually and even so, I believe they will also make representation in this case as well.

There is no comparison between the Corby case and this one, can you tell me if at the very least this case will be heard by their peers or is this going to be another state goverment run hearing.
These people don't have the same defence that Corby is running. But they seem likely to be running the defence of duress. At least in Australia that'a full defence.

Our government's involvement in Corby's matter was to ask the Indo authorities to ensure that the trial is conducted fairly. Are we saying that due to differences in the facts of the case the 9 are less deserving of a fair trial?

My real beef was with the Government giving these people away effectively to the firing squad despite Australia being against the Death Penalty.

They could have intercepted them once they come into Australia. In fact if you look at their explanations as to why they didn't, they don't seem to be honest.

No, these 9 will not get a jury trial. Indonesia doesn't have a jury system at all.

Firstly, only four of the 9 idiots would be eligible for the death penalty. The remainder may get up to 10 years imprisonment. I do agree there is something strange about the Government's position, on the one hand the AFP is doing everything it can to get the four the Death Penalty then we'll see the Government appealing for clemency.

However this would not have happened if they haddn't tried to smuggle the drugs.

The death penalty for drug smuggling? That is just sick. I hope there are big protests against what the government has done, not that we have any room to talk here!

As far as I can recall, all the South East Asian nations prescribe death for drug smuggling depending on the amount being smuggled.

The Death Penalty for Drug Smuggling seems harsh I know and I oppose the DP. But Indonesia has such a huge problem with drug smuggling, and the world knows it has a punishment of death for those crimes. SO WHY DO THEY STILL THINK THEY CAN GET AWAY WITH IT?

Perhaps allowing the guys to get caught is your governments way of telling you guys "DON'T DO THIS". I dont think they will get death, I dont think your government would have said catch these guys if they did not have an assurance that they were not going to be put to death. If they did not make a deal beforehand, then I think they are really silly for allowing these guys to get arrested on Indonesian soil.

Firstly, only four of the 9 idiots would be eligible for the death penalty. The remainder may get up to 10 years imprisonment. I do agree there is something strange about the Government's position, on the one hand the AFP is doing everything it can to get the four the Death Penalty then we'll see the Government appealing for clemency.

However this would not have happened if they haddn't tried to smuggle the drugs.
Jherek,

Good point. Only 4 might get the firing squad. But the Governmnet didn't know that at the time they tipped off the Indonesian authorities.

As for the other point.... well......true.... except.....you've already convicted them and they're presumed innocent.

I dont think your government would have said catch these guys if they did not have an assurance that they were not going to be put to death.
Yeah that would be nice but that's not the case. The Government can't get any assurances from Indonesia because the sentence depends on the Indonesian courts and the Indonesian executive can't make promises on behalf of a sentencing court (separation of powers).

They give the Death Penalty for drug smuggling. Oh my goodness. I had heard other countries were very hard on drugs and now I can see for myself they are. If they did that here in the states, it would probably clear out at least 30-40% of the prisons. Execution there is the Firing Squad? How barbaric and I thought our executions are barbaric. Very sad indeed.

They give the Death Penalty for drug smuggling. Oh my goodness. I had heard other countries were very hard on drugs and now I can see for myself they are. If they did that here in the states, it would probably clear out at least 30-40% of the prisons. Execution there is the Firing Squad? How barbaric and I thought our executions are barbaric. Very sad indeed.
Yeah and the way they do the executions in Indonesia leaves you dying in a ditch for about 5 minutes.

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117,15014601-2,00.html

Indonesian police arrest 9 Australian citizens allegedly trying to smuggle heroin from Bali to Australia. The Australian Federal Police had been investigating the operation and tipped off the Indonesian authorities, who in turn arrested the suspects. Indonesia has death penalty for drug smuggling.

Why didn't our government (Australia opposed to the death penalty) wait for the suspects to arrive in Australia and arrest them here? They could then be tried for importation of drug of dependence into Australia, and face jail sentences but not death. The question has been posed to the Australian Foreign Minister, Alexander Downer. His response was that the offences were committed in Indonesia and therefore Indonesian authorities had to be involved.

There is no law that requires that a suspect be arrested immediately after committing the offence. Indeed, police very often keep suspects under surveilance for a period of time before making an arrest.

Is Australia trying to save face with Indonesia after being accused by Jakarta of acting inappropriately by intervening in the Corby case? Are we selling out 9 citizens to the firing squad to illustrate our harsh stance on drugs and to improve our relations with Indonesia? It is difficult to understand our federal government's double standards: On one hand lobbying for Indonesian executive intervention in the Corby trial; on the other handing over 9 Australians who now may be facing the firing squad. What is Canberra's agenda?

Anyone have any views on this?
I have to wonder as well. What is Canberra`s agenda here??
Unless both Govn`s had been working together for some time on this particular dope smuggling ring; already knew exactly what was going on, and were just waiting for the right moment to pounce.

It will be of great interest to me to see where the buck stops with who is the Big Pin behind this group too.
Since the people caught appear to be "talking", I wonder if justice will go all the way To The Top? Or whether it`ll be the Small Fish that pay the price, while the Big Fish buy their way out of trouble. As per usual.

I was so shocked when I first heared this article that our own government is condemming (at least some of) these people to death!

The AFP gave the information to the Bali police so that the bali police would be able to catch, 'the big guy', as in, the person (or persons) they were getting it off in Bali. Of course, they didnt, or... they claim that they did, but then they shot him, so how are we ever supposed to know'? This information included the flight details for all of the 9, where they were staying etc.

So, couldnt the AFP have simply tried to arrest the 9 as they got off the plane in Australia and charged them with importing (if they have all this intelligence they claim to have had, and given to the Bali Police) the drug instead of condeming them to death?

Unfortunately, this is just how the Bali police seem to work. Did you know that to become a member of the Bali police you have to pay 4x what you would earn from your salary in one year! Just to become a police officer, of course they can expect to earn 4 times more than their salary in bribes and, 'contributions'. Unfortunately, there are just too many cases of this and too many stories to just call it "a select few", now while almost certainly ALL of the Bali police to not do this, a large marjority would seem to as the confidence in them with the locals, is even lower than with the tourists.

I've been told they do generally not actually "act upon anything" unless they are either a) being watched by media, high superiors etc, or b) there is direct financial gain involved.

Many locals had to pay 4 times what the government actually charges to have their motorbike licenses renewed because of all the 'contributions' you have to make to the police. Heared another story of a tourist (i beleive from Australia) who had their handnbag stolen while holidaying in Bali, and for insurance reasons required a poilice report. So she went to get the police report, and was made to pay something like 60,000 rupiers before they would give her the paperwork.. (its only about 8 bucks Australian mind you). Just way too many stories, a simple google search will reveal this..

So, unfortunately to me, it looks as if the Australian government handed over the information, expecting the Bali police force to respond effeciently, and effectively. Unfortunately, it looks as if they did neither of those things, and simply waited for the day they were leaving, followed them to the airport and arrested them red handed.

There is no 'agenda' here. They were utterly stupid to do what they did and now they must face the music, tough! It has nothing to do with the Aust Govt 'handing them over' but everything to do with why on earth should those passengers be allowed to travel on an international flight with those kinds of drugs?? Imagine if some of the condoms exploded internally and one of the smugglers died? There would be backlash for the fact that they were knowingly allowed to board the plane. It's a no win situation really isn't it. They were busted on Indonesian soil therefore they should be tried by Indonesian Courts, even if they would have got softer sentences here in Oz.

Oh and also they are not 'presumed innocent' as we all know after the Corby case that it's all very different in Indonesia rather than here....over there you ARE presumed guilty until you can prove your innocence ~ and quite frankly the video evidence is pretty damning wouldn't you say?

'Do the crime.....do the time' as they say.


D