Please refrain from discussing the death penalty in general in this thread.

About the case....

There's been much jumping up and down about Corby, particuarly in Australia. A number of people have been chanting that Corby should be freed. What all these people seem to overlook is that Corby is on trial for a serious drug offence. She was caught with a large quantity of drugs, refused to open her bag upon request and appeared flustured.

During her trial, her lawyers have called some very dubious evidence. A lot of it is unreliable (eg Ford), and in fact would be inadmissible in Australia (eg Ford again...hearsay evidence).

Corby is trying to rely on news items that were never admitted or attempted to be admitted into evidence (ie the Sydney baggage scandal).

The Australian Government has made some inappropriate steps of trying to lobby the Indonesian Government into intervening, ie interfering with its own Judiciary and prosecuting authorities (which are independent from the actual Executive). This has left the Indonesians very unimpressed and suspicious of Australia's attitude. And suspicious it does look. Defence evidence appears to be far fetched and, quite frankly, fabricated.

It's time for everyone to actually see the case for what it is instead of desperately looking for reasons to think Corby is not guilty. It's time to give the Indonesian courts a chance.

Lightkeeper

The facts without the death penalty.
Firstly let me say Lightkeeper it is hard sometimes to stay on topic if others post and go off topic a bit and then after about 10 or so its way off topic , so do you answer the question or ignore it.

In relation to Corby, the facts as I know them are this:

Corby is detected with a quantity of Marijuana in her bag
Corby does not at any stage admit ownership
Ford gives evidence in relation to how the drugs got in her bag
People were chating outside the court for the death penalty
It is reported on the news that a baggage handler has interfered with a luggage.
The Australian Government makes representation on Corby's behalf.
Their Goverments prosecutors are now asking for a life sentence in preference to death.
Lightkeeper, Corby has maintained her innocence from day one, it has been established that others can access your luggage at the airport , Ford's evidence regardless of what his reasoning was, named the person responsible.The pressure on the local authorities was evident by the calls from people in the street for the death penalty and more so , that their own judicial system would not want to appear weak which lends itself more toward a guilty verdict.

In respect to Australia's representations , I have not heard of anything which indicates that Australia said or did anything which would effect the trial, Australia has a right to submit a representation on her behalf as an Australian citizen.

As I predicted their own prosecutors are now, not seeking the death penalty, and I know what you will say this is because of Australia's involvement, but couldn't it be because they know that their own case is weak to say the least.

The only hard evidence , I have seen from their prosecutors is that the drugs were found in her bag , that's all!!!!!

In my mind , doubt exists in this case, that's all that is required , well at least by our law and another point I would like to raise, over there you are not judged by your peers are you , you are found innocent or guilty of a crime by STATE appointed judges.

I would be very interested to note how many have been on drug importation charges over there and how many of the accused have been found innocent, do I need to count off more than one hand!!!

Come on Lightkeeper , I bet underneath that hard exterior, you know that their is some doubt even if it is slight, why is it that the only evidence against her is that it was in her bag and for you thats enough to find her guilty. Don't understand!!!!

Lightkeeper

The facts without the death penalty.
Firstly let me say Lightkeeper it is hard sometimes to stay on topic if others post and go off topic a bit and then after about 10 or so its way off topic , so do you answer the question or ignore it.

In relation to Corby, the facts as I know them are this:

Corby is detected with a quantity of Marijuana in her bag
Corby does not at any stage admit ownership
Ford gives evidence in relation to how the drugs got in her bag
People were chating outside the court for the death penalty
It is reported on the news that a baggage handler has interfered with a luggage.
The Australian Government makes representation on Corby's behalf.
Their Goverments prosecutors are now asking for a life sentence in preference to death.
Lightkeeper, Corby has maintained her innocence from day one, it has been established that others can access your luggage at the airport , Ford's evidence regardless of what his reasoning was, named the person responsible.The pressure on the local authorities was evident by the calls from people in the street for the death penalty and more so , that their own judicial system would not want to appear weak which lends itself more toward a guilty verdict.

In respect to Australia's representations , I have not heard of anything which indicates that Australia said or did anything which would effect the trial, Australia has a right to submit a representation on her behalf as an Australian citizen.

As I predicted their own prosecutors are now, not seeking the death penalty, and I know what you will say this is because of Australia's involvement, but couldn't it be because they know that their own case is weak to say the least.

The only hard evidence , I have seen from their prosecutors is that the drugs were found in her bag , that's all!!!!!

In my mind , doubt exists in this case, that's all that is required , well at least by our law and another point I would like to raise, over there you are not judged by your peers are you , you are found innocent or guilty of a crime by STATE appointed judges.

I would be very interested to note how many have been on drug importation charges over there and how many of the accused have been found innocent, do I need to count off more than one hand!!!

Come on Lightkeeper , I bet underneath that hard exterior, you know that their is some doubt even if it is slight, why is it that the only evidence against her is that it was in her bag and for you thats enough to find her guilty. Don't understand!!!!
Firstly, finding drugs in someone's possession is A LOT of evidence. In Victoria, for example, there's a rebuttable presumption of trafficking if a traffickable quantity of drugs is found in your possession.

Secondly, there is further evidence in Corby's case. Eg, evidence of customs officials that Corby was reluctant to open her bag, tried to stop a customs cop from opening the bag and said "No, I have some..."

That's incriminating evidence and it's evidence that goes to her knowledge of the drugs being in the bag.

Yes, she's denying that. But everyone denies incriminating stuff in these circumstances.

I'm not saying I think she's guilty.

Lightkeeper


I am glad that you have not taken the hard line in this case , and I respect your comments and opinions because without a difference of opinion it would be impossible for any one to let alone debate the issues but more so for the courts to make a proper determination.

Your contribution is valued!!!

I know that you are here to help as am I , and a debate in relation to any matter relating to crime or prisons is fruitful because one can make informed decisions relating to ones own situation having expored both sides of the story.

I think she's going to be found guilty and get life. Then she might be transferred to Australia to serve her sentence. It would be interesting (and sad) to see what happens then. Given that the agreement will probably stipulate that a transferee has to do the exact sentence they would have done had they not been transferred, she'll end up doing her whole life in Australia. She'll be in jail with other prisoners who have been convicted of similar crimes and are getting out after 4 or 5 years. And with murderers with a non-parole period of 12 or 18 years. They'll come and go. And she'll still be there. Over a bag of pot. Just ridiculous.

I agree with you totally, and yes I also believe that she will be transfered to Australia to serve the remainder of her sentence under the prisoner exchange treaty. I can't comment on the length of time she will have to do, I don't really know it is an interesting question, never seen this before I mean to say if she is an Australian prisoner, but sentenced by a court in another country what will happen in respect to a fixed minimum term, can she apply to the courts in Australia for that , What is the term of life in prison over there, will the Australian Adult Parole Board have juristiction in her particular state. Very interesting questions!!!!

Lightkeeper, you may be right she could in essence be kept in prison for the "term of her natural life" whilst others on similar charges get out, I wonder what their country does in respect to this, their in the same boat, if we sent a person back who was done for drug importation charges here and say that person got 10 years, he would be sitting next to prisoners convicted and sentenced to death over there for the same offence. The whole thing is crazy!!!, the more I think about it the more I am convinced that they will demand she do her sentence to the the very second.

I'm not entirely certain that there is a prisoner exchange treaty between Australia and Indonesia

A South African citizen was also arrested around the time that Corby was - or pretty close to it. Corby was caught with 4.1 kgs... guess what ... so was the South African. What makes me wonder is that it is exactly the same quantity. The South African also said it was not his... The S African got life, they wanted death penalty. The South African cannot come home and finish the remainder of his sentence because they wont allow it to happen. It makes me sad to think that perhaps innocent people get caught in this and have to pay the price for someone who is smuggling drugs out of the country. It does happen, people are unknowing mules. I for one would never want to end up in an Indonesian Jail on drug charges.

I'm not entirely certain that there is a prisoner exchange treaty between Australia and Indonesia
Good point. There isn't. The government is trying to negotiate one right now.

Well Jherek99 and Lightkeeper you were completely right
There wasn't an exchange treaty with them , but from all reports the Aus Government is trying to get one going with them and it looks promising.

The disappointing thing is that even with the exchange treaty she will have to do two thirds of her sentence over there, I personally don't think she will cope or make the distance.

This is probably a bit off topic , but interesting to note the debate now flaring up about legalising Marijuana in Australia and also the Government Television clips opposing it.

In my opinion , Miss Corby will not get the death sentence,but I don't believe that she will be found innocent either. That country has to ensure that the nations pride in relation to drug smuggling and the hard line approach taken by its Government is not deminished by their decision and I would expect that she will be sentenced to a lengthy prison term regardless.

The disappointing thing is that even with the exchange treaty she will have to do two thirds of her sentence over there, I personally don't think she will cope or make the distance.

Well it appears my predictions on what would happen to Miss Corby have been correct thus far, and I am hoping that my last prediction does not come true, that is that she will not make the distance. I believe now that given the way it has been set up , that if she appeals the sentence they will go for the death penalty or Life in prison her options are really non existant, and in the face of that I believe she will opt to take her own life. Miss Corby will, I believe go for the appeal because she has nothing to lose now, but if she is unsucceful which is almost certain and with the prospects of having to do two thirds of her sentence over there before being considered for the prisoner exchange treaty if that is of course accepted and trying to survive in those prison conditions, I just don't think she will be able to cope I really don't:mad: