When an inmate receives a ticket for a prison infraction, what are the steps that are required by the department? Meaning, if an inmate receives a ticket, does he have the option of a hearing to fight that ticket? And if he doesn't choose to fight the ticket, doesn't he have to sign something? I ask this because the main thing we want the ombudsman to look into (if he will) is the fact that when Robert was given that ticket which got him kicked out of the PVDP program at Camp Branch (which was not considered a major infraction) he was never given the opportunity to fight it, nor did he sign anything saying he was agreeing to it. He received the actual paperwork on the ticket after he was back at Egeler. I swear I read somewhere that a prisoner has the right to fight a ticket, and they have to sign off on it if they don't choose to utilize that right. Is that correct?
Thanks! :)

Jeni,

From what Bill's told me and what I've heard from others in Michigan you are right. Most of the time the hearings a farce though as another officer or a few of them hear it at the hearing....Good luck!

Deb

Yes you are right they can fight the ticket. There is a hearing officer who hears them on the ticket. Most of the time I agree with Deb it is a farce because ususally the hearing officer automatically sides with the officer who wrote the ticket.I'm not sure about the signing thing.

From what I understand is that at some point afterwards you get like a mini hearing thing. Its just where they tell you what you did and you say you did or didnt and they tell you how you will be punished. I think that is the point where he can say he disagree's and that he didnt do it or whatever. Its been a long time since James got a major ticket but he was called down about a day and a half after being told he got a ticket and that is where he met with some higher up officer or somebody (cant remember who) who went over the reporting officers ticket and then made a decision on the spot. Did anything like that happen for him ? I know last fall James got his bunk checked and they found something that didnt have a label on it and he got a ticket but had the opportunity to defend himself two days later and the ticket was cancelled. I can see you are thinking over time Jeni, you are a lot like me that way. I spend so much time checking things and making sure no one is making mistakes anywhere.
You know, there has been a few mistakes with James this year alone. And its worth making sure they are doing their job right. Its just hard for us to know what the actually facts are as far as their policies.
Even though I would probably feel uncomfortable and not trust them, I do wish some M.I. co would join so we can grill them,,hehehhehe. Mind you they dont get paid to know a whole lot about some of the things we are asking. Oops was I being rude,,nahhh.

Witchlin

I think thats where Robert's beef comes in. He was never given the option of fighting the ticket. He got to have his say in that he let the CO have it, but in regards to anyhing "legal" he was never given the option. And, the fact that he never signed anything saying he was accepting the charges against him. He was just kicked out. THis is interesting.

Witchlin-how cool would that be to get a Mi officer on here??? They would be bombarded and it would be GREAT! LOL
In regards to Robert's case, I think that he was called into the office, the officer told him what the charges were, saying that they had a statement from me admitting to everything (which they did not) and told him that he was being kicked out. I think that Robert did own up to getting things from the store, but I don't know exactly what was said.
Before he left for Egeler, he asked the CO if he had to sign anything, and the guy said no. But I swear they have to sign something! I know that when Robert got his parole violation papers before he went back in, he had to sign those saying he was agreeing to the violation and wasn't going to fight it.
I will try to find out.

From what I know though is that the parole violation papers are controlled by way higher up, a ticket is issued and dealt with much lower down on the ranking so to speak. Though it is passed on higher up on his prison conduct record. I think he would have to sign parole violation papers and it wouldnt come from the same place as the ticket. You know if they lied to him about a written thing from you, well that sucks really bad, cause it will be your/his word against theirs, though that is intrapment (sp) where I come from. I think some of these ticket things can be really far fetched, I mean they can say just about anything really if they want to give you a bad day/year. Perhaps there is to much control of that at that level, though from what Ive seen I think some of them have the word control as a middle name.
Can you tell Im getting Bitchy, all this waiting for a decision is driving me half insane I think.

Witchlin

Yea, it would be my word agains theirs. And the fact that I did send money doesn't help. LOL
It's really not funny, but it just seemed so innocent to me when I did it! How stupid I am.
This waiting has got to be killing you Witchlin! That is the worst part isnt it? I really REALLY really hope all goes well!

Was it a major or a minor ticket that he got? I have just pulled one of my husband's minor tickets that he sent me out of the envelope and I'm looking at it as I'm posting this. Have you seen them? At the top there are boxes for 'Institution", 'Name', Number, Violation date, Reporting staff members' name, Time & place of violation, name of violation charge, and then several lines for 'describe violation'. Then a place for the officer who wrote the ticket to sign it. The next secition is 'Reviewing Officer's Action' and there is a place below this for the Reviewing Officer (different from the reporting officer) to sign it and also a place for the inmate to sign it. This particular one my husband refused to sign and that's what it says in this box. I hope this isn't too confusing and difficult for you to follow. After this is the section titled "Hearing Report" it says 'evidence/statements in addition to misconduct report. Then below this 'Reason for Findings", then disposition, THEN boxes for 'APPEAL' and you can check 'yes' or 'no' here, then boxes for 'sentence imposed' or 'sentence delayed pending appeal'. Then at the very bottom is a box for 'Hearing Officer's Signature' and again "Prisoner's signature". So on this ticket there were three different officers who signed it, the Reporting Officer, the Reviewing Officer, and the Hearing Officer. Hope this is helpful.

Do you have a copy of the original ticket? If you want to tell me what it was for I just happen to have a copy of the "Pocket Guide for Prisoner Rule Violations' and I can look it up and tell you exactly what it says about it if you think that will be helpful.

yeah it is driving me nuts. I think Im getting sympathy teeth grinding going on when I do manage to sleep. James grinds his teeth in his sleep and I think I might be doing it now too. Its too wierd really, months and months past faster then waiting for a parole results. Well I know James expects to hear this week at the latest, so it could be even tomorrow but I say that every night for the last two weeks.
So with your thing, I was thinking, you arent the prisoner and you arent issued any rules as far as who you send money too right ? even though I can see your intentions. So in reality I would think if he didnt sign anything then there is nothing on paper saying he is agreeing to doing anything wrong. And if I got the story right, you sent money to another prisoner, well did anything happen to the other prisoner ?

Witchlin

Boy would I love a copy of that.

Witchlin

Thats great info Isadora! Robert told me his ticket was not a major violation. He was actually looking for the forms that were sent to him after he was kicked out of the program, when we were on the phone the other day. He couldn't find them, but he knows he has them. I told him to photo copy the misconduct form and to send it to me. So, what I am understanding with your husbands form, he didn't sign it cuz he was going to fight it?
I am going to talk to Robert again tomorrow so I will double check on the major/minor thing, but I think it was a minor. And I want to make sure that he absolutely didn't sign anything. Thanks again Isadora!!!!!!!!

Witchlin my husband always says the longer it takes for them to get back to you after the parole board sees you the better it is and the more likely it is that you are going to get a parole. Don't know if that's true or not. It's 2 weeks tomorrow since we saw the board so we should be hearing any time now also.

Yeah two weeks tomorrow for us too. Now are you under the understanding that they have to respond within 3 weeks ? James thought that and Im wondering if that is actually true or not. Also do you know if they check the home where he will be living if released before they make a decision ? Sorry Jeni to go off topic.

Witchlin

Hey, don't worry! I am pulling for BOTH of you, and can't wait to hear the outcome. I hope to God that you both get your guys home. Wouldn't it be a great day in Michigan!

Jeni the first box for "Prisoner's signature' is after the Reviewing Officers Action, and it says "Prisoner signature, I have received a copy of this report. My signature does not necessarily mean that I agree with the report." So it just means they got a copy of the report is all. No, my husband didn't sign it because he was being belligerent! He didn't appeal this one and plead guilty to it, but refused to sign it anyway! OK the second box for 'Prisoner signature' is at the very bottom of the paper next to 'Hearing Officer's Signature". Also just wanted to tell you at least where my husband is it's quite difficult for them to have copies of things made; they have to go through their counselor to do this. Usually my husband just sends me the original and if he needs a copy of it I make one for him and send it back to him. It's much less hassle that way.

Maybe I will ask Robert to just send me the original then, and I can photo copy it. Good idea.
This is all so confusing to me! But even if his sig WAS required saying he agreed to the infraction, or that he understood what was being brought against him, I am sure they will find some excuse for Robert's sig not being there.

You know Jeni, if he does get parole, I will be on here so fast once I stop jumping up and down. But I will also feel really sad for everyone who still has to wait. Its kind of a double edged sword. This is the only place I can go and talk without being judged because James is in prison. Its like an extended family and you dont want to hurt anyone here, or at least I feel that way. But I still want all our guys home.

Witchlin

Witchlin they have up to 30 days to get back to you after the parole hearing with their decision. I have heard that they come and see the home he will go to; but I guess we haven't gotten that far yet cause in the 3 times I've gone they never have come out. Maybe they only come and see you if they have decided to parole him.

Ok, well you know Isadora I wish you the best of luck and hope you are coping ok with waiting. You ever want to talk, you know where to find me. Hey its officially Monday now which means its St. Patty's day here in Canada, so I wish you a very green four leaf clover type of luck. I actually have a four leaf clover to give to James when he gets out.

Witchlin

I know Jeni, all they would have had to write on Robert's ticket was 'refused to sign' and they are covered. He may have never even seen it.

Thanks Witchlin! And good luck to you guys too! Actually I'm not sweating it too much this time around because I am not expecting a parole; I just have my mind made up that they are going to make him max out. But his out date is 3/29/04 and after that he is a free man no matter what!!

On the ticket that my boyfriend received for major misconduct-for sexual misconduct-that we were falsely accused of, he refused to sign it, and it was documented that he refused to sign it, and it didn't make any difference at all. They have their own politics and their own peoples.

Well, I talked to Robert tonight. I guess he never even received a ticket-major or minor- for his "act of corruption". All he got were re-classification papers, and then kicked out. So, I don't know. I guess since he was in a special program, the rules that the rest of the prisons abide by, don't count. I am going to try and see what I can find out about this prison program. Damn I wish he never would have agreed to it. If he had just stayed in general population, he would have been home by now. :(

Hi ladies,

Did I hear you guys right when you said it would be nice to have a MI CO in the group? Well, imagine that, I was a CO in michigan when I met my husband Brad! I thought you guys knew that???? Anyway, not sure if you got your answers to your questions, but if you have any, I will be more than willing to help answer them if I can. I did get the opportunity to sit in on some MJR misconduct ticket hearings and if you still have questions feel free to e mail me Shades278@aol.com . The only thing I didn't sit in on was parole hearings!! God, I wish I could change that now with Brad's coming up in April. It's driving me crazy wondering what is going to happen!!!

Hey, just wanted to add one thing since I ran into this problem else where when some people found out I use to be a C/O. I am in the same position everyone is. Please don't judge me badly, just because I was a c/o. I have never and would never revell any thing I hear about anything! When I was a c/o I was a very fair and respectful one. Yes, not all c/o's are like that and it made me sick. I met and fell in love with ny husband while he was in prison. I have made some very good friendships with the people I met in the prison I worked at. My husband was the last person on Earth that would have fell in love with a c/o! Believe me! He hated c/o's and still does. But when love is involved you can't help what you feel, right? Anyway, just wanted to say that, and my offer to help in whatever way anyone needs still stands! :)

I SENT YOU A LONG PM FULL OF QUESTIONS. I HOPE YOU CAN HELP ME OUT OR AT LEAST ENLIGHTEN ME. THANKS!:argh:rolleyes:

Okay as far as them visiting the home that the inmate is coming too, they only do that if they intend on paroling them. Baby Boy's earliest outdate is 10/05/05. I need to get more involved though because I just realized that he only has two more years in and then it's home. Can someone please help me? What I should be doing I don't even know. He tries to shield me from a lot of things that happen on the inside because he said he doesn't want it to touch me and the kids but he doesn't realize that he is part of me and for us to make it I need to know what he is going through. Would it be a good idea to get the name of his counselor and give him a call? I know this went all off the track of this thread but I am just so confused.

Yes, I would contact his counselor with your questions; I have found some of them to be helpful. My husband maxes out in a year and I am having the same feelings as you are. You know like 'yikes' I should be gettting ready for this. My husband does tell me things that go on in there so I am aware. I think for him I am just going to give him space and let him readjust to society at his own speed. You know if he feels like staying home we can or if he wants to go visiting friends, relatives we can. I am also going to spoil him rotten!

Hi, well as far as visiting the home I guess that didnt happen in this case since he got parole and they didnt go to check it out. So maybe they do it after but I would think as far as approving it that would be odd. Maybe it depends on specific factors.

yeah Deb, Im not sure if you are all aware Im an ex-con myself though quite a while ago. I think space and patience is really important after they get out. But you got to nudge them ever so slightly to not want to be alone to much and get them doing stuff if you can. And Deb, spoiling James rotten is definitely priority for me. Makes me smile just to think about it.

Witchlin

Wtchlin----

when you say deb, are you talking to me or is shades's real name deb too????? confusion here....please enlighten!

Deb

Actually I tinnk she was talking to me cause that's what I said in my post about spoiling him rotten. Except my name's not Deb.

Hi, just to clear things up, I'm Michelle, nice to meet you all!

SHADES, DO YOU KNOW IF IT IS POSSIBLE TO GET YOUR VISITATION BACK AFTER A MAJOR MISCONDUCT TICKET/A TERMINATED VISIT? IS IT UP TO THE WARDEN? THANKS.

Okay, if I remember right, If you are married and got a mjr for sexual misconduct, I think you can request to have the visits back after 90 days. Unless part of the sentence was a certain amount of time. If there was no decision on how long the visits are to be terminated then you can request them to be reinstated. If your not married, this appies also. I do remember one of the inmates in my pod got a S.M. ticket and he was married, they took their visits for a year. But he was totally guilty of putting his fingers where they didn't belong!! And they got him on tape doing it! LMAO. Anyway, if you want to appeal the ticket, your man can request the paperwork from any officer. If they won't let him appeal it, your best bet would be to get a lawyer and file it in circuit court of the county the prison is in. Most S.M. tickets don't get beat. But, if you take it out of MDOC's jurisdiction, you have a better chance of beating it. The one's that I know of, where people took it out of MDOC and had it heard ina real court, they did beat it. Hope this helps. If you need anything else, let me know.