Hello :)

This question may or may not belong in this forum, so if it gets moved I do apologize for posting in the incorrect forum. This question is aimed to other ex-inmates, as I and my husband wish some straight advice on a problem we are having.

My husband is in federal prison in Taft, his release date is September of 2006. Since his first year at Taft, back in 2000 he has been attending classes through the local community college, furthering his education and will leave Taft with a two-year degree and transfer to UNLV. I'm very proud of him for this, and he takes -great- pride in his schoolwork. It is immensely important to him for his education to be solid, it will help him overcome the felonies on his record.

With this in mind, he has been having a bit of a problem with his cellie. His cellie is a rude, teasing, overall mean and nasty person. He especially likes to tease my husband. Mainly for his 'fat' wife, my husband gets so angered by this he wants to punch his cellie's lights out. My husband is such a pacifist, that this must really anger him. He also doesn't have the first clue on how to fight. If we were to enter into a physical altercation with his cellie, my husband would be hurt. Badly. Not to mention, he also prides himself on receiving no 'shots' for discipline. If he was given a shot, he'd be put in the 'SHU' and miss his classes.

This cellie has also threatened to 'beat up' my husband if he requests to remove him from the cell or if my husband requests to leave. We do not even begin to understand this man's reasoning - it's like everyone in there thinks they are back in high school, the mentality is horrible.

There are only a few options we have. My husband could go to his own counselor and request to be moved, but his cellie would know and 'beat up' my husband. My husband could request that his cellie be moved to another dorm, but again, 'a beating' would be given. My husband has suggested that I call the BOP anonymously and request that the cellie be transferred from the facility altogether. The reason my husband cites, is that my husband has seen his cellie 'threaten the life' of another inmate. (This has not been seen by a guard - aka no real proof.) My husband also beleives anonymously is the best way to go, as his cellie has seen letters from me and fears retribution against me.

I'd like to know some other suggestions for this problem. Your help is appreciatated.

Kenneth just got out as well, i will make sure he sees this

Kalysse, I feel so bad for you. I am sorry that I am unable to give any real advice, but I did want to know that if you need someone to talk to I am here for you. I cant believe his cellie would say such things,but it is prison and they have some real bad people in there. His cellie probably has noone and is jealous of your husband for trying to do something with his life.

I do hope some of our ex's will come and post some answers for you. Good luck and god bless.

Kalysse,

I have some thoughts but I am going to wait to see what is posted from those that have the direct experience with this kind of situation.

In the mean time, guaranteed, my thoughts and prayers are with both you and your husband. It is terrible that the man is trying so hard to keep a clean record and better himself. No one should have to put up with threats like this.

I think KConnor or FedX would be two great ones to offer you the best suggestions on this.

softie

yikes, that's horrible. i really don't know either, but i will definitely keep you two in my thoughts. ack!

I'll leave it to the guys here and the feds here to weigh in on specifics.. but until they surface... I'll dance.

They'll have to flesh out the federal options. At the state level, there should be some means of extricating one or the other of them from the close quarters swiftly and permanently. It could be....
..a word to the unit director (boss of housing he's in)..
I'd discourage the anoymous call until you hear from Fed X and KConnor.. Too anonymous could trigger an 'investigation' which would pull one or both out separately for questioning and then put them back together while it's sorted out.
I don't know if you need to have the word, or if your husband does... but that may be the place to start.

or
it may be a word to the caseworker (from you or him) who can finagle an 'administrative' move. Not PC,.. just to see if there is some other housing that your husband might be entitled to as a step down from where he is since he's close to getting out.
It may also pay to have a caseworker hip to this, because if (godforbid) something could cause your husband to start missing classes, the caseworker might be able to give him access. If they see it coming, they can be responsive.

I don't know if there is some general movement within dorms as a norm.. Where I was, it was fairly common. Generally, no harm, no foul... Just need an empty bed and you'll be moved.

Once upon a time, I was moved into another dorm (it was open dorm gutted, doublewide trailers that they liked to call Honor Cottages. 20 women who you don't know and I didn't much care for in each one. Came home from work in the Kitchen to find I'd orders to move. My first load in to E dorm brought me passed the lady moving out... I asked her where she was going... She said, D dorm. Unit director of East Compound had opted to have us swap bunks and trailors.
When I put the first load in, I met my new neighbors... I noted that the lady and I were the same color... so when I tossed my stuff, I said to the lady on the left,.. Well, it's not racial.... What IS it? She said,.. "it's not racial, ...it's homosexual." "they thought she was getting too cozy in here.

By my count,.. there were exactly 9 truly straight women in all of PeWee Valley,--- and I was the president of that club.. I'd been disarranged to hold down a piece of real estate in a corner of a gutted doublewide, as the token straight,.. so the guards wouldn't have to sweat it. ...When the lady's girlfriend got paroled, they moved us back to our original dorms and bunks.

There is no right afforded an inmate as to a particular housing. If your husband is eligible for any option in housing it would take some request on his part (or your effort on his behalf) and the co-operation of the institution.

Does this facility not have some sort of 'closer to the fence' stepped down housing for folks who get within, say,..2 years or 18 months to serve out?

Here's hoping the Fellows here step up now..

I'm not familiar with the fed system, although I'm inclined to believe prisoners are prisoners no matter where they are housed or by whom. I will give you my perspective it is however the perspective of a Calif. state prison convict.

I know this doesn't sound fair, but this idea you can be left alone to do your time, is a myth. Your on a prison yard, & you have to deal with the others on this yard. There are prison rules, & prisoner rules that have to be followed. This I just want to do my time & go home, aint going to happen, Everyone wants to do their time & go home. I guess what I'm trying to say is your husband HAS to stand up to this guy. The reason this guy is treating your husband this way is because he thinks he can get away with it & he is getting away with it. Your husband has to take a stand because I can gaurentee you it will get worse. Once this guy knows your husband wont do anything it's over. Most guys when stood up to wont do anything. But your husband has to be prepared to back it up. He should put in for a transfer to another yard. That not happening a transfer to another cell block, or at least another cell. Here is the problem though. If your husband isn't going to stand up for himself then the word will get around, & someone else will start giving him problems. He does have to get away from this guy, because he's setting your husbund up to take his stuff, & control him. He's testing your husband now. If your husband gets moved & he is confronted he will have to stand up for himself, & deal with the situation, & if he ends up in the hole oh well, it's better than the alternative. If he can't finish his classes till he gets out, or at some later date, thats a bummer, but it can be done. Your husband needs to set his priorities. His class, & his date are not the most important things. His life while locked up has to be his main priority. If he had stood up to this guy at the beginning he wouldn't be having this problem now.

I know this sounds rough but believe me I'm censoring myself. It's time for some straight talk, & no games. ----Ken

Wow Ken I am so glad that we have you here to let us know how it really is... I knew in my heart that this is the way it has to be and in fact is. And it hurts my soul when alot of loved ones out here only get the sugar coated version of how it is in the inside. And yes I know that some of our men and women inside don't want us all out here to worry. But we need to know the real truth not a sugar coated version of it.

Beck

Kenneth O' here weighing in on the situation. I'm going to be brutally honest so don't take any offense. I can tell you what you want to hear or I can tell you the truth. The administration in any prison likes to have control and to keep things smooth and easy. Most prison guards prefer for inmates to handle their own differences out of sight. This way the prison half ass runs itself. If an inmate or his family complains about anything a change may have to be made. If a change is made paperwork has to be filled out. Guards and the admin hate work and especially paperwork. So to try and deter complaints a jacket is placed on all complainers called the snitch jacket. This deters most from requesting housing changes cte. The admin knows this. If an inmate or his family follows the complaint route and the snitch jacket ensues then that inmate will be marked for the rest of their sentence for reatliation by guards and inmates alike. In prison it's survival of the fittest and Might is Right. It's the way it has always been and it will never change. I've rarely met a man who has been in prison for any amount of time who has not had to fight on some occasion. In the world on the other side of the wire showing you will stand up for yourself is part of the law of the land. The status quo in the freeworld does not hold salt in the jungle of the prison. If a man will fight and stand up for himself he will obtain the respect of the other inmates and yes even the guards. They also always come into the equation on this doing time thing. To avoid a confrontation in your face in prison is to ask for alot more trouble in the future. In prison if a person keeps avoiding a confrontation it will eventually catch up with them and be 10 times worst that what it would've been if they would've just confronted the situation head on from the get go. To avoid a conflict is called To Get Sideways and the individual that participates in that behavior is forever marked. They may end up paying protection or worse somebod's punk! I'm not trying to step on anybody's toes just being honest so you'll know the true lowdown. My advice is he has to stand up to his cellie NOW before this progresses any further and a jacket is placed on him and he is marked for abust by inmates and guards alike. A case is not guaranteed if he Takes Care Of His Business as we call it. I've taken care of my business many many times on the other side of the wire and rarely got a case for it. The guard's respect it and the inmates respect it and 9 times out of ten if a person will Handle Up It'll all be Squashed after that and in the future other's would stay out of your man's business. If he runs from this situation now he'll have to keep on running and his problems will quickly multiply. If he stands up and confronts his cellie now even if a fight goes with it and a black eye, hey if it's the last time he has to worry about it then it's the best investment he could've ever made. Remember things in the jungle are not the way things are out here. I just came out after 8 years and I was rank in a prison gang so I know what I'm talking about here. I can tell you what you want to hear or I can tell you the truth. ichose the later so what you got was the unabashed truth. Pay heed.

Kalysse:

I know that what both Ken's have written here, is probably NOt what either you ar your husband want to hear, but they are both telling you the truth. And it's a truth that, in the long run, will protect your husband.

I don't know about KO, but I can tell you that Connor HATES to tell people things like this, for this is a side of prison life the guys wish their families would never know about.

Gentlemen both: I respect your honesty here, even in the face of knowing it might be an upsetting truth. I CANNOT begin to tell you guys, how often I wish that inmates did not have to endure such "jungle anarchy".

KO, when I first met Connor, and started to listen to his experiences, it broke my heart deeply, to know what he had been through. And I said something to him, which to him, sounded very odd, but I will now say it to you, for no one else will say it.

I DEEPLY APOLOGIZE TO YOU for all that you have lived through these last years. No human being should be forced into such barbarianism! And as a taxpayer, who's earnings go back to the government, then help PAY FOR this abuse of my fellow citizens, I FEEL PARTIALLY RESPONSIBLE for what each and every one of you have endured, for I helped fund the system. Hence, this apology.

KO, if I had the power to dismantle this entire system, and put another more humane one in its place, I would not hesitate. But, I am powerless.

Kalysse, my heart, and my prayers go out to you, sweetie!

All My Love,
Menolly

Ken, KO, and Menolly we are all very blessed to have members such as yourselves here... yes it is very hard to tell someone the truth when we all know actually knowing the truth will hurt. But at times like this the hard truth is the only thing that will help...bless all of you for being able to do this..

Beck

Kenneth hates to hurt people, but he also does not believe in sugar coating the truth knowing that it will only hurt them in the long run.

My prayers go out to you and your husband

I suppose it's a "lead, follow, or get out of the way" option.
Girl/guything it seems. I would like to think that there is some room for humanity to rear it's head. Call me an optimist. I'd like to think that any person who's got a conflict brewing (or coming) with another can sort out some compromise to avoid it. Might be a ruse, might be a bluff, but seems the fellow in this story has a better chance with a battle of wits against the neaderthal cellie, then he would with his dukey sticks.

Yard noise, law of the land and all aside... Would the gents who replied here concede that there are some folks in a men's prison whose rep is not based on where they fit in the pecking order?

Aren't there some people in there who are generally accepted for having some other value,.. being worth more as an ally then an adversary?

Wow. Thank you so much for the thoughts and prayers. I am especially appreciative of the straight talk of the bare truth. It was what I was looking for when I posted.

It made me cry. It made me feel even more helpless than I did before. Kconner and Ko1 - thank you very much for your honesty and forthrightness. I agree with your take on the situation, your truth rang true. As much as I hate it, it is true. Life in prison is about the basest things, the base of of socialist ideals - like a tribal nation. An uncivilized portion of the world. This has become so because of what the prison system has made it so. My husband's priorities must change for the time he is in there. I will be printing these replies out and mailing them to him and hopefully he will see the logic behind it all.

As much as I never want my husband to be hurt, this must happen. I worry of course for the possible greivous injury or even.. god forbid death. This is a medium security prison with most inmates having only three to five years left, 99.9% of them will not go so far. It's that .1% I'm worried about.

Something that needs to be told here, my husband's father left when he was only two years old, he's never had a male figure prominent in his life to teach him such things, and at the age of 27 perhaps it's time.

Thank you all so much for your help and advice and loving thoughts. I love this community here. I promise to keep you all up to date.

Please do keep up posted, Kalysse. We'll all be hoping for the best....

Yes please, do keep us posted. Best wishes to you and your hubby.

Best wishes to you and your husband Kalysse! My prayers and thoughts will be with you both!

Beck

Becky & Lulu, thanks for your kind words. When dealing with such a sensitive subject, & dealing with a loved one who I know may find it hard to completely relate to daily prison life, I try to tell it like it is, but I also try to be as diplomatic about it as I can. The truth doesn't have to be brutal to get your point across, but it is a fine line, as Me & Kenneth are both trying to convey a sense of urgency, & importance without scaring the hell of of Kalysse.

Menolly, you just keep showing the reasons why I love you

Life2, I'm sad to say that for the most part, no. For the most part a persons rep is what they make it by how they handle themselves. It is extreamly rare for any man to have any kind of good rep without his ability to take care of business being a part of it. No one is immune from the laws of the jungle. It does happen I guess, but it's rare. There are people who you don't want as an enemy, & some you don't want as an ally. I'm talking more of 3 & 4 yards where I spent most of my time, & for the most part 2 yards are like this too. 1 yards may be the exception, but they still have to follow the laws of the land. There are guys who can't be reasoned with. Normal logic doesn't aply inside. Trying to talk your way out of a problem can look as a sign of weakness. A neandrathal cellie losing a battle of witts will just get frustrated & start swinging. I could go on, but I think you get my drift.

Kalysse. I'm so sorry to hear your husband is going through this, as I know what it's like as I've seen other guys while they are trying to deal with the same situation. I believe Kenneth & I are trying to convey a sense of importance, & urgency, in your husband dealing with this guy, as I think we both see the same thing happening, & it's going to get ugly. We really don't want to scare you, & I'm sorry ,because I know we have. I know I have held back, as not to litteraly frighten you away. Your husband can salvage this fairly easy, & stop any future problems, if he changes the way he deals with this guy. Once he lets this guy know he's not going to put up with his crap, does what he has to do, most of his problems will be gone. It's not whether you win or lose, it's whether you fight for your self that matters. That is what will get him respect, & in turn left alone to do his time. If I can be of any more help please let me know. Take care, & you & your husband are in my prayers.--------Ken

Ken ~

I have a question related to this thread ... my uncle was incarcerated last year, classified as a Level 4 prisoner and sent to Lancaster -- he's 66 years old and very, very passive.

I worry for him and the fact that he's on Level 4.

Although I ask, he would never tell me if he had trouble - so my question to you is this: Do ALL prisoners face some type of conflict while incarcerated? Does the fact that he is older, frail, and ill-of-health matter? Would the 'bullies' leave him alone because of that or not?

I appreciate your point of view.

Thanks in advance ~ Val

Menolly thank you for offering an apology for society. It is the first time someone has done that and I do accept. However, more importantly I have forgiven myself for allowing myself to lose my freedom and to become incarcerated. I accepted full responsibility for my own actions long ago and when I did the hate and bitterness escaped my life and left me with an inner peace. I've read the other posts and I have this to say. Liberalism is dangerous because it's nice to envision a utopia in the penitentiary where the emphasis is truly on rehabilitation and reintegration back into society but that is only an ideal that in this day and age is far, far, far from reality.To try to offer one advice based on an ideal that is not currently grounded in truth is extremely dangerous. An excellent cliche that is fully applicable here is When in Rome act like the Romans. In prison it's the become the hammer or the anvil mentality. Doesn't mean it's right, doesn't mean I agree, it's just the way things are. Since we exist in reality, or at least I hope we all do Smile, then we must be realist. Try negotiating with a man who's high on crack, needs another fix and has a loaded gun pointed at your head with an itchy trigger finger. There's a time for everything and when entering the system it is a time to face facts. Namely being that penitentiaries in America are violent depraved playgrounds that feed upon anger, hurt, misery and pain. I'm telling the truth now because everytime I share with others about my experiences it's to assist someone else hopefully who is facing a hurdle akin to my past problems. Sometimes hard advice is the best advice. The truth will set you free. Don't despair Kalysee just be strong for your man and when you write him discuss this situation very frankly and openly and offer your full support and love as he endures what he must do. No my friends it is not a perfect world. I'll do my part to help make it so though. Until that day I'll try to help others as I can with the unvarnished truth. In my life I've always found it to be much preferable for other's to tell me the truth so I could come to acceptance with it as opposed to living a lie just because I was too insecure to handle the truth. The truth will bring acceptance and acceptance in turn will bring advancement and progress.

wow, you speak so much truth kenneth. no wonder i love you. :)


Ken, your more then welcome. Your a man with a heart such as your woman. :) I can see why you love her as you do. :)

Val,

It's me Ken (Kconnor56), I'm using my friends screen name because he doesn't use it, & I'm having alot of problems with my account right now.

Like all answers to prison questions, It depends.

I'm an older guy, but I wouldn't have any problems on a yard for a number of reasons.

4 yards in Calif. for the most part are serious places. There are alot of factors involved.

1. How much time has he done in the past. I have done a lot of time, & in that time, I have earned my respect. I have done my soldiering. I have earned my bones. So I have nothing to prove to anyone. A shot caller, or CO would be able to look at my file (Jacket), & be able to tell generally what I have done. I've done my time in the hole, did a SHU term, been in riots, stood by mine, so if your uncle has his bones, & done his soldiering in the past, it will protect him today, to a large extent.

2. For the most part the elderly & disabled are protected against unwarrented assaults to take their stuff. Some one doing this would have to get a green light, & if he has his bones, that wont be given. It is looked down on for guys to go after people who can't defend themseelves, but it does happen. Once the guys on a yard know that no matter what your uncle will fight back, it's not worth a new beef, or a trip to the hole just to screw with him. Also it depends on what he has as far as material possesions. The richer he is, the more problems he will have. I had what I needed, but never kept a lot of stuff. If my stuff was stolen, they never would have gotten a lot. Takes away the incentive. High risk, low pay off.

3. Many guys on a 4 yard have spent years getting the cell they want, the cellie they want, the job they want, the yard they want, etc. many aren't willing to throw all this out the window, & lose all this work, so they don't jump into stuff that will get them thrown into the hole unless it's important.

4. Many guys are selling wolf tickets. This is talking big, but not really acting on it. Like give me your stuff or I will get you. If you don't, they wont go after you, they are counting on your fear. If you don't back down, they know you'll take care of business, & leave you alone. The problem is you don't ever know who will back down, & who will take it to the next level, you just have to be prepared to deal with what ever happens. In my case I would say about 70-80% of all threatss made towards me, were never acted on. Mostly it's just a test. Many times they don't want your stuff, they just want to know how your going to deal with the situation, like back down & give in, fight back, turn them in, etc.

5. Different races, & different groups within that race deal with older, & disabled prisoners differently. The group I ran with protected them as long as they followed the rules, & didn't screw up. On the other hand I saw a mentally ill prisoner who had everything he owned, recieved in packages, & his canteen taken from him. He would zone out, & stand in the middle of the day room, & just rock back & forth, & when he got like that his people would go to his cell & take his stuff. It really was a messed up situation, but he was a different race, & group so it wasn't any of our business, but I can say we would have never let that happen. The worst thing would he would have been taxed, but allowed to keep his stuff.

I hope this helps a little. If you have any other questions, let me know, & I'll do my best to answer them.-----------Ken

Ken ~

Thanks for your response. I'm not sure what "bones" are --
My uncle has never been incarcerated before, so I doubt if he has anything that qualifies as bones.

I was dreading your response as I knew you would tell me what I felt in my gut -- that Level 4 is a hard place.

I'm having a hard time composing words right now.

My uncle didn't deserve to get the sentence he got (20 years); and most certainly didn't deserve to be put on Level 4. His crime? Lewd conduct with a minor under 14 (If child molestation could be rated in degrees, it wasn't a case of a 'severe' degree -- inappropriate touching, over clothes.) He needed help, not incarceration. Unfortunately he was arrested right about the same time that the Catholic priests were making headline news, and no one was looking kindly on child molesters.

I haven't voiced it, but I have heard what happens to child offenders in prison ... and I can only imagine what would happen on a Level 4.

As I said, he wouldn't even begin to tell me if he was being picked on. His health is very, very frail -- hypertension, high cholesterol; he had a quadruple by-pass four years ago -- he suffered an attack of gout when he was at Delano.

I'm so very sad right now. I can only hope and pray that he is safe.

Val

For better or not, the men have weighed in. I think it is better because understanding the realm of possibilities is half the battle.

Clearly, men's facilities are a different animal. Though there are some consistencies with the ladies room... they are working with different equipment.

What serves as sport, what serves as good clean fun, what serves as a means to spend your time are not are parallel tracks. The part about maintaining a low profile is, I suppose, the same everywhere.

By my nature, not actually on purpose, I developed a homestead based on the principle.. "if you have nothing,.. You have nothing worth covetting."

In retrospect,.. it might have been that I was completely oblivious to the other down sides to the rules of the prison game. As luck had it, I'd been dealt a bankable hand. In county, I was the only one they were trying to kill by trial,.., and it was obvious to my neighbors that the guards screwed with me more for absolutely no reason,..yet I thrived. Upstate I was ushered in to the ladies auxilliary of Longterm Offenders and Lifers (like me), all of us were out to thrive and homestead.

Wouldn't it be a lovely thing if this sorta thing caught on the the Men's yards?

Val, I wanted you to know that you are as well in my prayers.

Val

Bones are the stripes for what youve done in the past to prove yourself. Doing your soldiering, standing up with your people in a riot, etc.

With 20 years on points alone he would end up on a 4 yard. With some time he can get down to a 3 yard. Tis is a little better. One good thing though is he lives in a cell, & un der a gun. This affords him a little protection.

Never having done time before & going to a 4 yard must be like stepping into the twilight zone. It's not funny, & I'm not kidding.------Ken

I recently sent him a package chock-full of any and everything I could send him. I wonder if I could have made things worse for him by doing so.

His letters to me are fairly brief; basically about what his days are like. No mention of other guys other than in his last letter he said that he requested to move because his cellie (another Filipino man) was "too particular." What that meant, I don't know.

Thanks for your input everyone. I appreciate the prayers, Lule and the brutal honesty, Ken.

Packages are never a bad idea. So dont ever worry about that.

I have had cellies that really tripped on wierd things. Some people are just way to picky about everything in their cell. Now I'm a pretty neat person & even more so in a cell, because you have to be, but some people take it way to far. I think thats what he means by to particular.

Hi,

I was wondering if I could get some of this straight-talk advice.
My husband is in a level 2 prison. He has 4 level B felonies of sexual misconduct with a minor. He was doing pretty well in prison, until someone recognized his name. They are now harrassing him and calling him a child molester, even though the girl was 15 - and more than willing. Anyway, he was intimidated by a group of about 10 guys in a dorm, and he did ask to be moved into another dorm. So, he was moved and then the same thing happened, because word was getting around about his charge. That night he wanted moved again, but it was too late at night to move, so they put him in PC. I saw him yesterday in a visit, and we both decided that he had to get out of PC and go back to a dorm and stand up for himself.
What is he going to have to do to earn back the respect of the inmates? I know that he should have stood up sooner, and that it's going to be worse on him now. If he stands up and gets in a fight, do you think that that will solve it, or because he "ran" before is he always going to have problems. I'm just sick to think of him getting seriously hurt. He's never been in a fight before, but living in fear or in PC is no way to live. Please tell me the way it is. I know that it is scarry, but I want him to be able to survive.

Thanks!