I WAS WONDERING IF ANYBODY ELSE FELT THIS WAY?

Bridget,

What prison system are you having to deal with? I have not inquired on this but I am pretty sure that all Lifers in Texas have visitation.. I am almost certain that all lifers in the Feds have it.. Please send more details..

Take care,
David
:eek:

Hi all I am new to this forum.... My name is Melissa and my husband is one of Illinois' wrongfully convicted... sentenced to life w/out. I am active in Prison Reform and many other projects, my main goal is to see justice obtained in my husbands case... anyway... :)


I also think it unfair that lifers aren't given family visits! In fact here in Illinois NOBODY gets family visits at all.... It's something we would like to see change and be enacted soon, but it's highly unlikely... If anyone has info I could use to propose this idea to legislators please forward to me via e-mail. I am interested in obtaining the layout/policies/rules etc... from states that have such a program now.

When you sday family visits, are you talking like the weekend visits where you can stay with your loved one? I do not think they have them in federal prisons at all, but if I am wrong David, please tell me so! :D As if so, I am in ASAP!

In fact I have only heard of a few states that allow PFV and I do know Maryland is not one. I think they should offer them in more states and on a federal level to help families build for there loved ones return to society. I really think it might help our loved ones out.

Is this true? In what state is it that lifers don't get family visits? Does this mean they only get to see a lawyer or something? What about friends?

I try to find a reason behind this crazy rule but I can't.

Soraya,
By family visits I mean "Conjugal" and overnight visits with family... This is sometimes the wife, and others can be with Children, sisters, brothers... 'family'... I don't know of a state that doesn't allow visiting of a few hours a month...
kintml2u,
I hear from an ex federal inmate of 30 years that they do have family visits in the federal system.... but I could be wrong..

"Lifer," why do they call it getting life when it is really taking life? Although not "death," it is clearly not life. After two years I was allowed to hug my child, "contact visit". In CA, "Lifers," also are not permitted "Family Visits". (family) may never have an overnight visit with our loved one as others do who will eventually return to society.
We made it from "Glass Visits", to "Contact Visits", we enjoy them the best we can and play dominoes, Uno and some read the Bible together. Just sharing...being close doesn't require words at times. Everyone stays within their own invisible territory. This being a small round table where you close everyone else out and focus on restoring your loved one and yourself positively to make it though until the next visit. It is grueling of course, the to's and from's but the moment we see the smile of our loved one, it is so heartwarming and we know we are right where we should be at that moment.;)

You can use your imagination and find many ways to give support and inspiration to those closed away from us to sustain them throught the loney week. They can share some things with others who never get a visit. I am going to try paper models next. Origami is a good thing too.
God Bless each of you.
JR

GOOD EVENING TO ALL, MY NAME IS CINDY AND MY HUSBAND IS DOING 25 TO LIFE FOR A FIRST TIME FAILURE TO REGISTER. I AM IN THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA AND THEY HAVE NO OVER NIGHTERS OR CONJECAL VISITS FOR LIFERS. I WOULD REALLY LOVE TO SEE THIS CHANGE BUT I AM UNAWARE OF HOW I COULD HELP. I WORK WITH FACTS (FAMILIES TO AMEND THE THIRD STRIKE LAW) AND WE ARE TRYING TO CHANGE THIS LAW SO IT PERTAINS TO VIOELANT AND SERIOUS CRMINALS. THEY DONT REALLY WORK ALL THAT OFTEN WITH OTHER SITUATIONS, AND I WOULD REALLY LIKE TO TRY HELPING OUT IN ANYWAY THAT WILL BENEFIT US ALL. THANK YOU CINDY

Most states do not have these visits for any type of offenders they have pretty much done away with them due to several factors..

I think inmates should be allowed conjugal visits. I have a couple of reasons. First, I do NOT believe the state should have the power to take a person's right to procreate! It is just wrong to tell two people in love that they cannot try to concieve a child because one of them is an inmate. I just think that is a God given right--not one that should EVER be taken away. Secondly, I think allowing conjugal visits could decrease the number of sexual assaults that go on in prisons. You can change human behavior, but you CANNOT

OOPS...as I was saying You can change human behavior, but you CANNOT change human nature. The system should take away privileges not God given NATURAL RIGHTS!!!! They should NEVER be allowed to take a person's family away from them. Here in Texas, inmates are allowed one 5 minute phone call every 90 days. It is better than nothing I guess!

Yep here in good ole' Florida there are no conjugals at all. It stinks.


I watched sometihing on 20/20 yesterday that you guys might find interesting. A guy from NY was sentenced to 23 years in the feds for mob related stuff. Anyway, he and his long time girlfriend rushed and got married. After a few years her biological clock began to tick. Next thing you know she shows up for visits pregnant, and then w/ a baby girl, who turns out to be his bio daughter. How'd it happen? The feds flipped when they found out. Turns out she ordered a kit online for cancer patients to put their sperm in until it could get to a doctor. The won't say how the sperm go into the viles or how the viles got to her doctor. But they won't deny that the did what ever they had to in order to have their daughter.
He has been in seg for 18 months now, they will keep him ther indefinately unless he releases the names of the people who assisted him.
They are such asses, why do they care if she wanted his baby. I think artifical insemination should sefinately be allowed. But then again so should conjugals!
We have joked about doing this, and now we know exactly how to,lol

I think lifers should get 'family visits' I mean especially if there not going to get out again come on!!!!!

Well, here's how the prisons think-------providing the visits costs them money in time, trailers, and security. That's one thing. Then, they figure that since close family ties is proven to prevent recidivism, they're going to cut out the family visits for lifers because they're not likely to hit the streets again anyway. At least, not in a lot of states who aren't releasing them anymore. So they figure it's wasted time, money and trouble. Not to mention that when the stiffer actions against crime got voted in, now they know they can not only get away with cutting them out, the public is going to applaud the move. Lifers and those on the Row are throwaways to mainstream America, and that's a very bad statement about our so-called "civilized" society. My suggestion is that we all pay VERY close attention to every single thing and person who comes up for our votes from now on that will affect our prisoners in any way, however remotely, and that then that we get out and VOTE, come hell or high water!

As for the procreation thing, they don't want a prisoner to have a child because he's not out there to help support the child and raise the child, and there's the idea (not altogether without basis in some of cases) that the conditions surrounding a single parent family where the father can't be actively involved with the child brings up another generation of kids who are prone to getting in trouble. I absolutely do not believe that anyone here would necessarily be prone to that with their kids----I'm just saying why the rule exists.

Broad use, or unclarified use of 'family visit'... is throwing people.. To folks who's system doesn't call visiting THAT, they are guessing that family members are restricted from seeing anyone who's doing Life.
Some are thinking that the 'family visit' is what they know as an 'extended visit'... or some other concession to more casual surroundings or a different limit on people or time at a given visit...

But what you're asking about is Conjugal... Right?

Ahem......

As the resident lifer here.....

Conjugal visits.... Providing a motel room of sorts for someone to come shack with a given prisoner inside the constantine wire is wrong for more reasons than I have the poof to type about tonight.

I am not alone in this thought which is why the privilege of visiting happens at the pleasure of the DOC. Whether it is a yard visit on a picnic table, or a visiting room table, or in a booth with a glass pane between inmate and visitors.
The number of folks you can visit is restricted,..The individual people authorized to come to visit is restricted... The conduct at any sort of visit is restricted and all of that is for a reason.

The scant few facilities who still entertain the 'trailer date' are few, far between and dying out fast. For those who still do have them, not every prisoner in the joint qualifies for them.
Given a few more years or incidents or lawsuits,.. I'd guess the practice will go the way of other bad ideas before it.

As for other forms of ordinary visitation,...Lifers are not restricted. Lifers, and anyone who hasn't screwed up institutionally so far as to lose their visits as part of a ticket penalty can have the visits that are available to them.

The DOC is in the business of managing people.
The DOC is not in the business of compromising it's own security to get someone laid.
The DOC is not obliged to assist in family planning, nor should it be.

The purpose of most visiting policies (see your state's statute or corrections policy on it..) is to "maintain contact with family members and society"

That's it. They offer the privilege of visiting, to anyone who can keep themselves above ground and in line.

Also to add to Toi_ama's response, CDC feels that family visits are priveledges and they feel that inmates shouldnt have them because its prison! They want them to feel every bit of their punishment everyday and by letting them have family visits, it like they're being treated as human..something CDC is definitely against. And they use the introduction of contraband being smuggled in as an excuse to keep families from having family visits (at least in California).....

Am I really reading that people are COMPLAINING that they can't have conjugal visits with their loved one in prison? I truly hope the complaints are out of frustration and you really don't think that any DOC should allow inmates to have sex while incarcerated. People aren't in prison for being good little boys and girls; they are in prison because they broke the law and deserve punishment. While someone is incarcerated, utilizing my tax dollars, I don't want them having sex and procreating (possibly more tax dollars spent). If conjugal visits were commonplace, prison would be a vacation and not punishment.

Michelle

[QUOTE]
you really don't think that any DOC should allow inmates to have sex while incarcerated. People aren't in prison for being good little boys and girls; they are in prison because they broke the law and deserve punishment. While someone is incarcerated, utilizing my tax dollars, I don't want them having sex and procreating (possibly more tax dollars spent). If conjugal visits were commonplace, prison would be a vacation and not punishment.

I totally understand everyone has their own opinions on this subect and I am not looking to get into a heated argument over this. But this is kind of thinking is a, "prime example" of why Family Visits have been taken away in California.

The general population and our Government leaders need to be educated a little more on the subject and true needs of a inmate's family!

The whole belief of " Making Welfare Babies, Wasting Tax Payer's Dollars and Prison being being a Holiday Resort" has got to go!!


KellyA.

Originally posted by Cheetoes1
I totally understand everyone has their own opinions on this subect and I am not looking to get into a heated argument over this. But this is kind of thinking is a, "prime example" of why Family Visits have been taken away in California.

The general population and our Government leaders need to be educated a little more on the subject and true needs of a inmate's family!
I have no intention of this becoming a heated argument of any sort. I'm merely replying to your opinion with mine. Nothing more, nothing less.

It isn't the responsibility of the government/DOC to cater to the needs of an inmate's family. Shouldn't the inmate have taken precautions and responsibility for his or her actions to ensure this situation didn't arise? It isn’t fair to blame the government for its citizen’s mistakes.

The whole belief of " Making Welfare Babies, Wasting Tax Payer's Dollars and Prison being being a Holiday Resort" has got to go!!

I realize that not all prisoners have "welfare babies." However if given the opportunity to procreate while incarcerated, the likelihood of that child needing public assistance is increased. Many people have a hard enough time making ends meet without the second income from the incarcerated person, let alone adding another mouth to feed. This is not an argument on welfare in general, only the possibility of children conceived during incarceration requiring government funding. In my opinion, tax dollars could be better spent on the care of the inmate themselves rather than the costs associated with the trailer-type visits.

Prison isn't a holiday by far, but it isn’t supposed to be easy. If you’re going to allow too many freedoms and frivolous things, what’s the point of sending them to prison in the first place?

Michelle

When I posted what I did, I wasn't intending to sound like I'm either for or against family visits. Just wanted to clarify that here. As I read the posts since, I realize that I personally haven't ever given any thought to whether or not I think they should or shouldn't allow them. I guess I've always just thought "hmm, that's different. They sure must like those." But that's about it. I know the idea behind them, back when people were really trying to cut recidiviism, was that 1) it helped to prevent prison rape and 2) contributed to keeping family ties intact wherever possible, which is proven to cut recidivism. As a taxpayer who has paid more taxes than the average person over the years, I wasn't against my tax dollars being spent to try to cut recidivism in this way or in any other proven way. There was a documentary on the prisons in Iran or somewhere like that a couple years ago that showed the marvelous results a warden over there is getting in treating his prisoners with love and respect and treating them like human beings. In my experience, we don't bring out the best in people by reflecting back to them the worst. The punishment is their loss of freedom. The greater crime is committed by the keepers who chose to treat prisoners as sub-human beings not worthy of being treated with dignity and care. You don't have to mollycoddle and baby a prisoner, but the keepers should be there to model the best, not the worst. We, as free voting society, are the keepers, and we're the ones who allow the conditions that our prisoners are kept with, so if we think along the lines of putting people away and saying they don't deserve every chance and opportunity to retain the positives they may still have that might help them to come out of prison reformed and better able to remain law-abiding citizens, then we're a sick society for sure.

When I take a holiday, I go somewhere nice, quiet and serene. I splurge on foods I don't normally eat. I sleep in and bask in the love of my family.

I don't go live in a room the size of my bathroom with somebody I don't know or like who might even want to rape or kill me, eat food that someone might have put urine, ejaculate or feces in, surround myself with a microcosm of society where I have to live in fear every day of my life. I don't cut myself off from my friends, family, decent medical care and dental care and almost all legal recourse. I don't stay in a room where someone else's snot and feces are smeared on the wall, there are sewer problems, rodents and roaches to contend with. I don't go stay where there's no silence 24/7 and where I can hear others being raped, beaten, killed and people screaming in dementia that's not treated. And I don't choose a room where I have to do even my toileting in front of that room-mate I don't know and might not like and anyone else who chooses to look in at me. That's not a holiday in my book.

So family visits where they're allowed are not making prison a holiday for anyone. That's a myth that sorely needs to be put to rest.

CDC does not cater to the needs of an inmates family member, now or ever. These family visits not only benefit the inmates, but also spouses and children as well. Who are we to dictate and judge someone for what an inmate did in his past and...does that mean he's not allowed to spend time with his family and people who care about him? I think people are confused as to what family visits are about. Its not about sex as such...although I'm sure many derive pleasure from it. Its about keeping the ties with family members, loving, sharing, showing CDC and everyone else who may have a low opinion about prisoners, that they still have the ability to love..not only as a prisoner, but as a human. People may disagree that inmates should have the right to love after commiting a crime of hate, but I thought the beautiful thing about this country was that we dont fight hate with anger, but with love....

Toi & Yasmeen, you both said some of my own thoughts about this quite well.

Just another thing I wanted to add about the idea of conjugal visits especially (tho we don't have them in Alabama, I only know what I read)... while I am sure those who have them are happy to have them, a lot of what I've read is that they're not exactly a walk in the park either in some cases. Put it this way, it ain't the Ritz-Carlton or the Mondrian or The Peabody!! And I distinctly remember reading on some other site long ago some discussion between women in a state that does have them that the experience at a particular prison was rather embarrassing or degrading, because of the way they were treated by COs. A lot of us go thru a lot of crap just to get to see our loved ones for a few hours (or less) in a visiting yard... what these women were having to grin and bear for conjugal visits was sickening, but they endured it without complaint in order to spend some time with their loved ones.

Michelle, I do see your points on a lot of things about it, some I agree with and some things I think there are many, many of exceptions to the basic rule. I do agree with a lot of what Life2 said as well. But there is a real fine line about the idea of "too many freedoms" and "frivolous things" tho when it comes to prison and everyone's situations are different. I myself and my situation would be a really good argument against nearly all the concerns Michelle brought up originally, and I might be an exception or I might be part of the rule, but since there's no conjugal or family visits in Alabama (nor are there likely to ever be, other than passes away from camp for those on work release) it's a moot point anyway.

I think there's valid points on both sides of the issue and probably the majority will disagree with whichever other side, so this may just be one of those debates everyone just has to agree to disagree on. :)

Remember visiting is a privledge not a right!!!

I had no idea lifers don't get visits. That is so unfair. How do they expect them to spend their life somewhere and never get to see their loved ones? I can't imagine that is true in all states, but if it is, how horrible. I thought lifers just got no contact visits....very awful.

I am going to comment on what I've read in this chat line today, I think it discrimatory to refuse extended family visits to lifers (conjugal) and what is meant by lifer. does thwn mean life w/out possibility of parole, or anyone with a like sentence, my man has been given life w minumun 30 yrs befroe he can apply for parole, I also wonder if anyone has taken this up with the civil liberties people, under discrimination. Since I have been doing research on the conjugal/extended visitation I have read one article that stated that the prisons where they have this, are all for it as it helps keep the inmates under control,and they think the extra money, aork, ect. is well worth it. I've also discovered that there are presently six states that have the visits, New York, California, Washingtom, New Mexico, Mississippi, and Connecticut, With mississippi only offering 1 hour, Now that would be a quickie. :) And I find that approach a bit degrading. I have also found that thee used to be only two states with this program, and since 1980 the other 4 have implemented this program, I have also found out that the state of Washington requires the inmate to have been married before his incarceration, including jail time. I presume to keep inmates from getting married just to be eligible. I read that Alaska, has this program but so far have been unable to confirm, also I understand that an inmate can sometimes transfer to another state providing that he find some one to trade with from that state. And a Woman I know who publishes a prison news letter will put a notice in her news letter for you. If any one out there has other information regarding conjugal/extended visits please contact me at (e-mail address removed by moderator due to PTO policy - member may be contacted via PM on PTO).
I am very down on our government for making an industry out of incarcerationg people. And if people do not come forward to stop this invasion it will only get worse, I belong to two prison reform groups here, and concur that what is happening in this contry is outrageous, We have the most prople incarcerted per capita of any country in the world, with 7% per 1000 while other countries including England, and Canada, have only 1% per 1000 this should tell you something about this country. Making an industry out of incarceration !!!
Tahnk you for your time in reading this and I hope to hear from you.

Here's an excerpt from a research paper on conjugal visits that lists the reasons stated by jurisdictions that don't allow them.

"Conjugal or Private Family Visiting

The attitudes about conjugal visiting exhibit some strange turns. The positive view of such programs was early presented by Hopper (1969), while Johns (1971) felt that even the positive attitudes would not result in action, and outlines the reasons for his belief. These include: 1) the negative attitudes of inmates who would be unable to participate (increased sexual tension, jealousy, hostility toward inmates who are authorized to have sex); 2) the lack of available facilities (which are not likely to be made available); 3) the severity problems of administration especially regarding security, abuse of power, and common law relationships; 4) the lack of strong administrative support; 5) the sexual nature of conjugal visits (not in tune with the culture of the times - too degrading for the wife); 6) possible additional children born to "inadequate families", requiring support from public welfare and 7) the belief that masturbation by inmates effectively minimizes sexual tension with none of the additional costs or risks associated with providing them with opportunities to have intercourse. Balough surveyed 52 wardens (1964) and found that only 13 percent approved. Shortly thereafter, Vedder and Kind (1965) found nearly twice the percentage of positive responses from 49 directors of state or federal institutions."

I just wanted to respond to a comment mentioned above by Toi_ama. I don't know what prison system you are talking about that is so nasty, are you talking about state or federal? Both of my parents are in federal prison and thier prisons are NOTHING like what you mention above. If your loved ones prison is as nasty as you make it sound you might want to check into that. My mom's prison makes them clean thier room EVERYDAY, they even have to wax the floor. This is in Texas. I guess it's different all over the states.

I don't think the prisons should allow conjugal visits. These people, including my parents, are incarcerated because they committed a crime!!!

Of course we feel this way, especially after our family visits were taken away in 1996. We fought and held it off for about a year. It was Wilson's idea of how to get to the Presidency. Probably the only way we can get them back is through the legislature. The climate would have to change, and maybe it is changing.

Martha.I WAS WONDERING IF ANYBODY ELSE FELT THIS WAY?

Wow! You are tough.
It is incorrect to call family visit conjugal visits. Family visits are visits with parents, children, brothers, sister as well as spouses. If you think that it's all about sex, you are greatly mistaken.

You actually think an 8X10 cell shared with another person with little to nothing to do is a vacation? You think that loss of liberty is insignificant? That being demeaned and disrespected by guards for years on end is too good for them?

Martha


Am I really reading that people are COMPLAINING that they can't have conjugal visits with their loved one in prison? I truly hope the complaints are out of frustration and you really don't think that any DOC should allow inmates to have sex while incarcerated. People aren't in prison for being good little boys and girls; they are in prison because they broke the law and deserve punishment. While someone is incarcerated, utilizing my tax dollars, I don't want them having sex and procreating (possibly more tax dollars spent). If conjugal visits were commonplace, prison would be a vacation and not punishment.

Michelle

My guy is in feds and none of those guys get conjugal visits--even if they are in minimum security. It sucks because family ties should be considered in the system, but they aren't allowed. I hope something changes, but denying men these basic pleasures as well as their freedon is part of the punishment.

In CA where my man is (he's a lifer) lifers and a few others have not been allowed to have family visits since about 1995. It's a shame because a female friend of mine who is also a lifer use to enjoy truly "family" visits with her kids and her parents for 2-5 days at a time, because they came from out of state at least once per year. Now she can't get those visits and her kids live too far to visit often. It's really sad. I know there's a movement to get those important visits back for all. It's not just about conjugal visits. It's therapuetic and gives the inmate some incentive to program, even though they have no other real reason to do so considering their sentence. I hope to see the day when family visits will be restored in CA. I don't think people who have been convicted of domestic violence or have a history of child, or spousal abuse should get them, for the obvious reasons, but it would be great for the rest.

jglsqueen

Well, my husband is in a CA prison and he cannot have family visits since he is in close custody. I believe is really stupid since this is his first offense and did not have any priors. And he was convicted of a "serious" felony, not violent...so it is pretty messed up!

my baby is about to get a date .so well be able to get family vists.ya hooooooooooo