Well, I made the 2 and 1/2 hour drive (each way) to go visit my baby today and this guard that I have never seen before starts having me fill out the papers to get in. Well, then she asks me whos name my vehicle is in (new procedure I guess) and I tell her that its in my soon to be ex husbands name, and she proceeds to ask me, "oh you're MARRIED???" I said that I was seperated going through a divorce. She says YOU CANT VISIT THEN. I was like WHAT? Ive been visiting for months now. My visitation form was approved and I listed myself as married on that too! She said that the policy states that if a visitor is married, and listed as a friend on an inmates visit form, then they have to be accompanied by their spouse to visit! I was like, WHAT? WERE SEPERATED!!!! Why in the heck would my soon to be EX HUSBAND want to come to visit with me? So she says that I have to have a divorce decree or permission from my HUSBAND to visit!!!!????Does anyone know WTF is going on?Is this true? I cant find ANY part of DOC regulations that states this!

Oh my, I am so sorry! Yes, this is true to a point. That is the official rule, and they do love to enforce it willy nilly. You'll need to go higher up on this. Since you both are seperated, keep at it until someone hears you and fixes it. This was a CO that followed that rule today, right? Call the case manager Monday and see if you can get anywhere that way. If that won't work, go to the Unit Manager over your guy's unit. After that try the Warden and then I think there's an Okla Visiting Board to override with but I'm not sure of the name. Hopefully, one of the people in charge at the prison will fix this though. Be prepared to play phone tag, don't get rude or mad since this is their silly rule, and be persistent & exact. Tell them how long you've been seperated, that there is no marital contact between you two anymore, and that getting back together is not ever in the picture. Also be prepared to explain *why* you haven't divorced, I'm sure they'll ask.

The rule is in place because they feel that it's unlawful to commit adultry and they stop any possibility of it. It's a ridiculous rule and completly sexist, in my mind! It's the same area of the visiting rules that won't let my sister visit my husband. She's his only other friend and the 3 of us have been best friends forever, but they won't allow 2 women to visit the same inmate. Oddly enough, my sister's husband can visit, but she never can...grr!

I'm sorry they pulled this with you, it's not right but sadly, it is their rule. I know of one other person here who has went through this recently and she had to jump through a lot of hoops, but she did get her visits back. You can do this too, just remember to play Miss Polly Sweet on the surface...lol.

WOW! that sucks! I knwo of no such rule in NY... but who knows I am married to the inmate I visit... Definately call the state office & see what they say as well as the counselor etc etc... Would your soon to be ex give you permission? What kind of proof would you need...

linzip, I believe the *proof* they want is a notorized letter from the husband actually giving permission to let his wife visit....just like when your parents would give the school a letter saying you had permission to go on a school trip. It's unbelievable in situations like this, but Okla is still stuck in the 50s when it comes to this stuff.

so if I have my ex sign a paper they will accept that???We cant afford to file yet for divorce, thats the only reason we haventlinzip, I believe the *proof* they want is a notorized letter from the husband actually giving permission to let his wife visit....just like when your parents would give the school a letter saying you had permission to go on a school trip. It's unbelievable in situations like this, but Okla is still stuck in the 50s when it comes to this stuff.

seems like you have a quest on your hands... but isn't that the whole crap about prison life... we lost our visits a year ago & even though it sucks it was our fault.. I hate it when they pull that crap... Seems like priosn officals (or glorified babysitters as my husnad calls them) are all cut from the same cloth.. I know y Ex would of given me permission .. we are good friends? well as good as you can be with an ex.. Good luck!

In what states is this the "rule"? I'm married & the person I visit is just a friend & I've never been questioned about this. I've never heard of this "rule"! :rolleyes:

I stayed married to my first husband for almost a year after we seperated for that same reason....lol. Jeff's, since they told you that they would need permission from him to let you visit, I would highly bet that they will need documentation in your records on it. So a notorized letter should work. It's the same thing as when they keep a birth certificate on file for a child to visit even though they don't need to be approved. You could call the case manager Monday and ask if a notorized letter would work for proof of permission. And if so, can they make sure that it is flagged so this doesn't happen again. Just in case, I would make a copy of the letter and keep the copy in your car at all times. If they give you grief again, you can get the copy and say that the original is in your file and to check higher up.

Good luck again!

Atid, I'm not sure how many states have this rule. I would guess it's more of a "old fashioned" rule if that helps. And it's not enforced across the board here either is what's so frustrating. The Cali Forum might know your answer better, hopefully you all don't have this rule!

what I dont get is why Ive never even heard of this before, its not on the DOC website, and why have I been approved to visit in two different facilities with him, and never had a problem. I put that I was married on the original visit form that had to be approved! They even asked for my husbands name, and even though were getting divorced, I put it down because I had to

Atid, I'm not sure how many states have this rule. I would guess it's more of a "old fashioned" rule if that helps. And it's not enforced across the board here either is what's so frustrating. The Cali Forum might know your answer better, hopefully you all don't have this rule!

No this rule is not enforced through out. Just seems that that CO was in a "mood". My husband has had visits with an old old female friend. And they do question me more so than her.
What really gets me in is that we have a child together. And that one they cant deny.
They only follow the rules when it is convient for them.

This is in the DOC site. Let me see if I can find it real quick for you.

Whoa How backward is all of that!! You have to have your husband with you?! Surely that's some kind of unconstitutional!

Heres the link, not the full guideline but what I thought was important. There are other links on the page also about more rules.
They dont follow the rules but when they want to be but wipes.


http://www.doc.state.ok.us/offtech/op030118.htm


Section-03 Facility Operations
OP-030118

Effective Date: 05/26/04

Visitation


Visits are encouraged within the Department of Corrections to enable the inmate to strengthen family and community ties; increasing the likelihood of the inmates success after release. (2-CO-5D-01, 4-ACRS-5A-16)



I. Eligibility to Visit
A. Facility Guidelines
Visitation is a privilege, not a right. Each facility may set its own limit regarding the number of visitors approved to be placed on an inmate’s visiting list. Facilities will not restrict the number of approved visitors to less than six members of the immediate family, one friend, and one member of the clergy, except Oklahoma State Penitentiary, which may set a limit of three visitors plus one member of the clergy. Children under 18 do not count against the total number of visitors allowed. Visits by attorneys will be in accordance with Section III. item B. of this procedure. Inmates may add additional friends up to the maximum allowable number of six visitors in lieu of family members as defined in local procedures. (4-4498)



Parents will be considered as one visitor. Brother’s-in-law and sister’s-in-law will not be allowed to visit unless accompanied by the approved relative. As with parents, a brother and spouse and/or sister and spouse will be considered one visitor.



If the inmate is married, then no opposite gender friend may be on the approved visiting list.


1. Immediate family members are defined as spouse, natural or surrogate parents, grandparents, father-in-law, mother-in-law, children (to include step-children and adopted children), grandchildren, siblings, aunt or uncle.



2. With the facility heads approval, children under the age of 18 years may be approved to visit an inmate when accompanied by a parent, legal guardian, or responsible adult who is authorized to visit the inmate; who has notarized permission of the legal guardian of the child. These children must be natural or adopted children of the inmate they are visiting. All other children must be accompanied by the parent or legal guardian. In the event a question arises, the visitor may be required to provide documentation, such as birth certificate to reflect parentage.


8. Male or female visitors (friend) will not be allowed to visit more than one inmate as a “friend” in any DOC facility or private prison. Once a friend has been removed from one inmate’s visiting list, they will not be allowed to be placed on another inmate’s visiting list for period of 12 months.

Which prison was this at?

But see that policy does not cover my situation. It says if the inmate is married, they cant have female friends. HE isnt married though! They told ME that because I was married, I couldnt visit him. Did I miss that part of what you posted from the DOC website, because I dont see anything that says they can do this!

well apparently, it was the unit manager that told me I couldnt visit today. My guy thinks that it was, when I described her to him. Soooooo....now what?Oh my, I am so sorry! Yes, this is true to a point. That is the official rule, and they do love to enforce it willy nilly. You'll need to go higher up on this. Since you both are seperated, keep at it until someone hears you and fixes it. This was a CO that followed that rule today, right? Call the case manager Monday and see if you can get anywhere that way. If that won't work, go to the Unit Manager over your guy's unit. After that try the Warden and then I think there's an Okla Visiting Board to override with but I'm not sure of the name. Hopefully, one of the people in charge at the prison will fix this though. Be prepared to play phone tag, don't get rude or mad since this is their silly rule, and be persistent & exact. Tell them how long you've been seperated, that there is no marital contact between you two anymore, and that getting back together is not ever in the picture. Also be prepared to explain *why* you haven't divorced, I'm sure they'll ask.

The rule is in place because they feel that it's unlawful to commit adultry and they stop any possibility of it. It's a ridiculous rule and completly sexist, in my mind! It's the same area of the visiting rules that won't let my sister visit my husband. She's his only other friend and the 3 of us have been best friends forever, but they won't allow 2 women to visit the same inmate. Oddly enough, my sister's husband can visit, but she never can...grr!

I'm sorry they pulled this with you, it's not right but sadly, it is their rule. I know of one other person here who has went through this recently and she had to jump through a lot of hoops, but she did get her visits back. You can do this too, just remember to play Miss Polly Sweet on the surface...lol.

Jeffsfriend
((((hugs))))
I dont have any advice, but what I have just read is awful. Its hard enough with them being in there, without all the BS.
I hope you get it all sorted out soon!!!!

ewwwwww, gross! who do they think they are anyway? good luck getting this sorted out. how lame.

Exactly! I am a FREE WOMAN who is getting divorced (for a very good reason mind you that is NOT MY FAULT) and they wanna tell me that I have to get PERMISSION from my husband Im seperated from to visit someone Ive known for 8 years !!!(alot longer than my 2 year marriage).

In what states is this the "rule"? I'm married & the person I visit is just a friend & I've never been questioned about this. I've never heard of this "rule"! :rolleyes:

It's true in Alabama. Male inmates can only have one non-related female "friend" on their visiting list and none (I think) if they are married... think it's the same vice versa for female inmates, one male friend only. Don't know whether this is true or not but I've been told the rule was made to cut down on the number of potential catfights at visitation, i.e., if an inmate was playing two women and was visiting with one when the other showed up by surprise...

Lys, that *is* the official reason for the rule here from what the COs told me at Lawton, and that makes sense to me because I'm sure they've had some interesting catfights in the past...lol.

But the real problem I have with this specific twist is that it has nothing to do with the inmate. They are refusing Jeff's because she happens to be married to someone on the outside. If a female is married, they can not visit an inmate unless they are immediate family or visit with their husband. It's like they're saying womensfolk can't be let out alone without a chaperone :eek: And like Wanna said, they only enforce this rule sometimes and on the most ridiculous situations.

Jeff's, I haven't had to go through this, so this is only guessing....

The Unit Manager is the one that said you had to have permission. If your ex really will sign a letter for you, maybe call that same unit manager and ask exactly what needs to be included in the note, where to send it, and will that permanently solve the problem. If that doesn't work, then I would guess the Warden is next.

Let's hope they don't make us start to wear chastity belts next :D

SHHHHHHH!! FRECKLE - they will hear you.. LOL and it wouldn't surprise me if they tried that one..

JEFFS - being a former CO I can tell you want happened. The last time you visited they ran your tag number and saw that it was registered to a man with your same last name and this is why you were questioned this last time. You were already in visit so they didn't say anything so they did the next time you came. I'm so sorry for that. I understand how you are feeling right now. I've had to go through my own living hell as a lot of you know. Just get the info that they ask for and that should be good enough. And I would sugest if your soon-to- be ex will sign a letter I would make sure I kept a copy of it in your car just in case you get a newbie again and they question it again.

It not the rule in every state, but we all know how backwards Oklahoma is and it used to not be the rule. I know when I was married to my second husband we used to go visit a friend of his in JDCC and we would take his wife and son and his former wife would go too. But when I was married to my third husband I couldn't go visit with my brother-in-law unless my husband was with me and wasn't approved and I was.

And now my friend Casper who is single can still only have one female visitor on his list who is not IMED family.

I personally think that this rule really sucks but there is nothing we can do to change it that I know of, just comply with what they ask for. I can't go see my CUZ who is in BJCC because he got married right before he went in and we are very close and it killls me. and it's not fair. I hate being at the mercy of OKDOC.



Let's hope they don't make us start to wear chastity belts next :D

Well, I just called and talked to the same lady that denied the visit-the unit manager, and she said that the divorce had to be final, and a final decree to prove it:( My only other option is to have MY HUSBAND fill out a visit form and get it approved(which is ludacris to me, because why would he want to do that?) and THEN have him write the notarized statement and wait for that to get approved, and THEN submit it all to the head of DOC for approval to override the facilities policy.....so, the divorce decree is the easier and quicker route (obviously).
The good news is, I talked to an attorney today that can do it and have a final divorce decree in 2 weeks. Since we have no children together and we are not contesting anything.

I went to visit at Connors this weekend, and the CO checking everyone in was asking everyone what level their inmate was, because if he was a level 1 or 2 they had to wait until 1:00 p.m. to visit...this was at 10:00 a.m. and some of them had driven a long way, but she said that it was posted that morning and their were told to enforce it.

Dont you love how they change the rules with no notice and then apply it to everybody like its OUR fault we didnt know...?

Well, I have a friend in prison in Oklahoma that I have visited, and I am married to my husband who isn't in prison! I would be totally insulted if anyone asked me to get PERMISSION from my husband! My HUSBAND would never even dare to have me ask PERMISSION to do ANYTHING!
The whole thing pretty much sucks, and I'm sorry to hear this...and a bit ticked off at the way "rules" change, and are or are not inforced!:angry:
lis

I am terribly offended! I dont understand how this can possibly be legal!

Majik wrote in Re to Chastity Belts - SHHHHHHH!! FRECKLE - they will hear you.. LOL and it wouldn't surprise me if they tried that one..

What?? You don't already have yours just in case :D

Jeff's wrote - The good news is, I talked to an attorney today that can do it and have a final divorce decree in 2 weeks. Since we have no children together and we are not contesting anything.

That's awesome news!!! It's really a pretty easy ordeal especially if you can get your ex to go down and sign the papers with you instead of waiting on them to be mailed. I didn't trust my ex one bit, so I drove him down to the lawyer myself and got that part done in one day....lol.

But I still agree with everyone and think this rule is beyond belief...grr!!

My fiance' had to get a copy of his divorce decree for doc before he could put me on his list, he was divorced and was served in there. He took his ex off the list and she never believed him and made a trip for nothing cause they wouldn't let her in but that was her own fault cause he had told her he removed her from the list. I am divorced but they have never questioned me. I would get the divorce since it is the simpliest and quickest and hey you wanted it anyway. Hope everything gets worked out for you, good luck. Hopefully your soon to be ex will cooperate and it will be over soon.

:confused:
My question is: How do they KNOW if you're a MARRIED woman visiting an inmate that is NOT your husband? If you're a friend, neighbor, old classmate, whatever, how DO they know what your maritial staus is? I've never had to put my maritial status anywhere.
What about a married MAN visiting a woman inmate who is not his wife?
hmmmmmmmm............

Here, we have to fill that info out on the visiting app. They are very serious about family values in Okla. And yes, a married man visiting a single female inmate is under the same rules. They have it written as "member of the opposite sex" in the guidelines to cover all their bases. It's really sad...

They know because I had to put that info on my visit form, but also, this last time, they asked me whose name my car was registered in, and I had to say it was in my husbands name.....Freckledgrl, can you answer me a question?.....Why did they ask me this time whose name my car was in to begin with?Ive never had them ask me that before....I wonder if the car has to be in my name before I visit again too??? Do you know???

From what I understand, the car not being in your name only gave them the opportunity to ask about your marriage situation. I don't think there is any rule that says you have to drive your own vehicle. But, since they did this to you once, that's why it will probably be a good idea to carry a copy of your divorce decree in your car every time you visit.

As for why they picked you this time, I don't know. I would guess they do random tag checks and yours was chosen that day. Does your ex have any flags that would come up if his name was ran? Outstanding tickets, past convictions, visited an inmate before? I honestly don't know why this became a problem for you now when it was fine when they approved you. I don't understand a lot of the things they do...grr!

No, my ex has nothing that would cause any red flags, hes never even visited a prsion or had any tickets, etc...Well, that day for some reason, they were asking EVERYONE whose name their vehicle was in , so I was curious...is this a new crazy rule or something. I swear, if this is my next problem, I am just gonna scream!!!LOL:mad: From what I understand, the car not being in your name only gave them the opportunity to ask about your marriage situation. I don't think there is any rule that says you have to drive your own vehicle. But, since they did this to you once, that's why it will probably be a good idea to carry a copy of your divorce decree in your car every time you visit.

As for why they picked you this time, I don't know. I would guess they do random tag checks and yours was chosen that day. Does your ex have any flags that would come up if his name was ran? Outstanding tickets, past convictions, visited an inmate before? I honestly don't know why this became a problem for you now when it was fine when they approved you. I don't understand a lot of the things they do...grr!

I am with you on this one, I haven't been able to go visit my guy due to my marital status as well, as you know. Kenny says that they are just trying to avoid trouble at the facility. I still think its ridiculous.
I had written to him to say that it isn't in the policy about the visitors marital status, his case manager told him to tell his girlfriend that I would get denied until I was divorced.
What a bunch of b.s. What if I was just a friend who happened to be married?
I guess an inmate can't have a friend of the opposite sex that's married. How archaic and closeminded is that?
So, now who knows when I'll be able to see him. It really upsets me as well. At least you have had visits. I am living for the day when I get to see him.

Iken, I know you were being snarky (lol), but that actually IS the way they see it, sad but true. Any female visitor to an inmate other than immediate family, cannot visit without the permission of their husband if married (if they choose to enforce it that day). I totally agree with ya on the archaic view...grr!

I seem to remember reading this somewhere hidden deep in the DOC site. I'll try to do some hunting tomorrow and see if I can find it again.

Jeff's, it's possible it's a new policy to ask about vehicle registrations. It also could be that they had a tip something was supposed to go down that day with a certain vehicle. I haven't heard a new rule on it but that doesn't mean it isn't there.

And I'm still so sorry that you, and Iken, have had to go through this and are still going through this. We should be able to make up our own minds on our own family values. Marriage should only matter if it's the marriage of an inmate, and even then I think there needs to be room for special cases.

Well, I hope my nightmare will soon be over....my divorce will be final in 9 days....If you do find out any info on if there is some new rule that the vehicle has to be in your name, please let me know. I'm dying to find this out~Thanks!

That is messed up!I would be mad to. Good luck to you.

I would suggest you get your friend and yourself to clean this up. with the amount of scams being run , wives, girlfriends, ex girlfriends it has got to be hard to separate the people who should be visiting from the people who should not be visiting. Everyone has a approved visiting list and if it is straight (everyone is verified like wife, girlfriend sister whatever) there is alot fewer problems.

Keep in mind when you encounter visitation problems that there are often as many people trying to break the rules as people trying to visit legitimatley. It then ends up effecting decent people who really need to visit.

The system always errs on the side of caution and with the mentality of some people everyone is trying to break the rules.

I do understnad what your saying, but the think is, I've been thouroghly checked out when I filled out the form to begin with, I've never lied to them on any paperwork, and all paperwork is straight. He is not married, nor does he have any other female visitors, etc, that they could possibly have any confusion over. I might understand if it wasnt for the fact that Ive been approved for a long time now, and visited him in tow different facilities, and all of a sudden, they want to inquire about my maritial status?(WHich by the way is listed on the visitation form what was ALREADY APPROVED!!!) The only reason I even listed that I was married is because even though I was seperated, Im wanted to be COMPLETELY HONEST with them....So...if I was tryin to pull something, dont you think I woul have left my husbands name completely out of it since we ARE divorcing anyway???I just dont get it....you try to be honest with them,and still it bites you in the buttI would suggest you get your friend and yourself to clean this up. with the amount of scams being run , wives, girlfriends, ex girlfriends it has got to be hard to separate the people who should be visiting from the people who should not be visiting. Everyone has a approved visiting list and if it is straight (everyone is verified like wife, girlfriend sister whatever) there is alot fewer problems.

Keep in mind when you encounter visitation problems that there are often as many people trying to break the rules as people trying to visit legitimatley. It then ends up effecting decent people who really need to visit.

The system always errs on the side of caution and with the mentality of some people everyone is trying to break the rules.